The meltdown of Southwest Airline’s archaic IT systems has been pretty well-documented in the press. The short story is that many of their pilots and flight attendants have no idea which flight they’re supposed to be flying because the crew scheduling system failed over the holidays. This is nothing new — the VP of the Southwest Airline Pilots Association says it happens once a year, but never at this scale.
There’s also the issue of Southwest’s treatment of ramp personnel. At DIA, a memo went out on 12/22 declaring a state of emergency and threatening ramp agents with firing if they didn’t show up or have a doctor’s note from an in-person (not telemedicine) appointment. Clearly, Southwest’s management, at least at DIA, are a bunch of idiot de-motivators, and a culture like that just doesn’t happen overnight or by accident.
But that’s not what I want to highlight in this post: Southwest also has a safety issue. Southwest, famously, flies only 737s, which greatly simplifies their crew management, since all their pilots and flight attendants are certified to fly any of the planes in Southwest’s fleet. Between 2013 and 2017, Southwest bought 88 used 737s and failed to to certify that required maintenance and inspections had been done on those planes. The FAA proposed a $3.92 million fine, but in 2021 the issue was resolved with a $200K civil penalty. FAA whistle blowers also allege that the FAA fast-tracked reports about pilot error in three serious accidents or incidents in 2019, including a runway overrun at Burbank.
A couple of days ago, the WSJ published a report detailing a November survey of the FAA Dallas office, in which 75% of respondents said that oversight of Southwest has not improved in recent years.
Obviously, it’s a terrible thing that Southwest’s epic meltdown has stranded thousands of travelers over Christmas. But it is much, much worse that Southwest’s safety issues have not resulted in anything resembling a real consequence. The major carriers in the US have an amazing safety record, but it’s the result of day-to-day effort to rectify the cultural and engineering issues that caused a hell of a lot of death in the last century. Most of the current safety rules are written in the blood of airline passengers and crew who often died for no good reason. We dishonor their sacrifice by not cracking down on Southwest.
In the next few days, we’re going to find out if Pete Buttigieg is worth a shit at Transportation. Southwest spent $12.6 billion on stock buybacks between 2015-2019, but they are not able to field working crew management software, and Buttigieg’s own FAA staff in Dallas is worried about safety oversight. Southwest is ripe for a serious enforcement action and a housecleaning at the Dallas FAA office. If none of this is forthcoming, or if it’s just another $200K slap on the wrist, Mayor Pete is not the kind of Democrat we need to keep around, as far as I’m concerned.
(The photo is the monument dedicated to the passengers and crew of Swissair 111, killed on 9/2/98 by a fire in a god damned entertainment system installed on their airplane, which crashed in the sea off of Nova Scotia.)
PaulB
Oh, no! You stepped on a Favorite Cats and Dogs post! (Or it stepped on you.)
I think there is still more to come about Southwest’s business practices. And a hell of a lot of lawsuits.
The worst part of this is the human cost: the cost to the stranded travelers and the cost to the frazzled and stressed airline employees, who are being the brunt of a system that was not their fault.
I hope something is being done for the travelers. I’ve been stranded in an airport before and it was a horrible night.
Soprano2
This is the cost of those cheap tickets that people just love. Our airport manager said the #1 question he gets is “Why doesn’t Southwest fly into our airport?”, and the answer is that the volume of passengers we have doesn’t justify it for them, because the tickets are so cheap. I cannot imagine the horrible world some of these passengers are in this week.
Burnspbesq
You know as well as I do that the kind of major enforcement action you’re describing (for purposes of this discussion, I don’t dispute the necessity) doesn’t happen on your proposed timeline, so stop with the performative bullshit already. This is every bit as mindless as “but Garland isn’t doing anything.”
Baud
Southwest is the Texas electrical grid of airlines.
The Moar You Know
@Soprano2: we have a winner. My dad was a pilot his entire working life and an instructor after that. He finally retired a few years ago for good.
This is a problem that has been over 40 years in the making, starting with the infamous deregulation of the industry in the late 1970s. Ever since then, the entire industry has been in a race to the bottom in every way.
trollhattan
My visiting brother is scheduled to fly SWA back home to New England on the 4th, and I’m questioning whether they can get their miserable act reconstructed in time to provide the plane and crew for that trip. He missed the winterbomballoza flying out here by a mere day. They were delayed about an hour due to a seatbelt not working, which seems prosaic now.
trollhattan
@The Moar You Know: Cheap tickets seems a distant memory. Now, they simply cancel un-filled flights and redirect folks to other planes. I have not had a flight below 100% full in perhaps a decade. Prices seem quite robust and inflexible, as if Ticketmaster were in charge.
A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)
For many years Southwest was my airline of choice, for flying, as I do, between cities in Northern and Southern California (and Portland, OR). It always went well, and I had no complaints, except for having to drive 2 hours from Ukiah to Oakland airport. Then about 8 years ago, I discovered Alaska Airlines, which flies out of Santa Rosa (Charles M Schultz “Peanuts” airport), a smaller airport 1 hour from Ukiah, and I haven’t flown SW again. Alaska also allows you to reserve a seat, which I appreciate, rather than being part of a cattle call when boarding, and seems to fly everywhere I normally go.
Betty
@The Moar You Know: That was one of the major errors of the Carter Administration. That combined with lack of anti-trust enforcement has left passengers with high prices and poor service. A major investigation with some re-regulation is overdue.
Another Scott
Thanks for this. It’s a great summary of the issues.
There’s something seriously broken with the US airlines model. I haven’t read up on the history of the deregulation stuff that (IIRC) started under Carter. But all sorts of financial wizardry seemed to take off around the same time, like corporations not owning their physical assets anymore and leasing everything instead. That’s when GE started its long, slow, decline as well – making most of their money on the vig from leasing engines to airlines…
In the Before Times there were stories that net-net airlines had never earned an overall profit, so clearly the system was broken. And has not gotten any better (though a few airlines did manage to get into the black) as far as the public is concerned.
Airline travel used to be relaxing and comfortable and something to look forward to. Now it’s an endless series of stresses and aggravations.
The system needs to be revamped. Too much money is being sucked out of the businesses for shareholders, and not enough is being spent on staff and operations. Sensible, safe, service has to come first for the nation, and if that means nationalization or regional carriers again, then we need to do it.
And much more should be done to get them off fossil fuels faster.
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
Baud
@Another Scott:
Did you not see Airplane!?
tobie
My flight on Xmas was cancelled by Southwest. I rebooked for Dec 28 and the flight was also cancelled. I then cancelled my ticket expecting a full refund. Instead the computer system only gave me the option of applying the refund to a future flight with Southwest. Since I had to travel — my father is in the hospital — I booked with another airline. I can’t afford this.
jonas
This. And after deregulation the industry made further cost-saving cuts/consolidations after 9/11 and again in the wake of the 07-08 recession. Stock prices and profits have been amazing. Safety, customer service, treatment of employees … not so much.
WaterGirl
@PaulB:
My post was scheduled for 2pm. At 2:05 I noticed that it hadn’t posted, so I published it. Then I saw that mistermix had put this up at 2:03, so I moved my post back by an hour.
Elizabelle
@tobie: Wishing you all the best with your father. Safe travels, and may your flight arrive as promised.
dmsilev
@Baud:
Surely you’re joking.
gene108
@Another Scott:
Nationalization won’t solve the problem. Plenty of countries have underfunded national airlines, whose quality of service has declined.
Some regulations on the amount of space each passenger should have regarding leg and shoulder room in a seat would help make travel less aggravating.
gene108
@Baud:
They got a full dinner on a night flight from Chicago to L.A.
We’d be lucky to get one free beverage and a pack of pretzels.
dmsilev
Southwest just took a giant crap over the reputation they had spent the last few decades building. Cancellations due to weather are one thing, but when you’re an omnishambles and all of the other airlines are running pretty much normal schedules, people notice.
jonas
@trollhattan: Oh, you can get cheap tickets. Except you can’t check a bag. Heck, some bargain tickets don’t even allow a *carry-on* now. Only middle seats available, in the backmost rows. You board/deplane last. Etc. Etc. Otherwise, get ready to start forking over for upgrades.
Everything is an upsell now.
Another Scott
@Soprano2: But tickets aren’t especially cheap, are they?
My usual break point is 500 miles. If it’s less than 500 miles, I’ll probably drive.
I just checked SWA. Dummy flight, DCA to STL, 1 person, January 4 returning January 11. Around $365 for the cheapest non-stop round trip.
Google tells me it’s roughly 840 miles, 13.5 hours. At 45 mpg at $5.40/gal (diesel) that would be 19 gallons or $103. Maybe $20 for meals. Maybe $250 round trip.
I don’t see that flying is especially cheap. And airlines taking out billions to prop up the stock price shows that they could be spending the money elsewhere if they wanted.
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
Old School
Can Buttigieg impose better working crew management software? Is that a function of the Department of Transportation?
Elizabelle
Sad about Southwest, which, with JetBlue, was one of my two favorite US airlines. Otherwise, prefer the international carriers.
And: I wonder if any of Southwest’s financial problems lie with passengers not choosing them because they don’t want to fly on a 737 Max.
They (company and press) aren’t going to say that, because it reflects badly on SWA and on Boeing. You can slander anyone in this country before you start trash talking major industries. Corporations are people, you know.
But SWA went big on the Max — and their demands reinforced Boeing’s bad decision to modify a decades old 737 airliner model to meet Southwest’s needs. Two full planesfull of passengers died overseas before Boeing ‘fessed up on its “augmented” flight maneuver controls — neccessary because the Max model can be aerodynamically unstable.
Was always rooting for Herb Kelleher and his successor, Colleen Ryan (dead and retired, respectively), and I liked SWA’s flight crews and support staff.
But sounds like the new management was coasting too long on old solutions. Pretty sure they’ll jettison the CEO and his staff soon, but needs a retooling.
Besides which: how long do you think this storm will remain a “once in a generation” occurrence? I think we are going to meet plenty of extreme weather patterns and circumstances in the coming years. More short term than long.
cmorenc
Even on vastly better-run United, in Denver Monday 12/26 in Terminal B, I witnessed the 150-200 person long line at the United Customer Service line trying to help stranded passengers. I had a 5-hour layover there on my way from Grand Junction, Colorado to Raleigh-Durham, and EVERY flight out of DEN to every destination, from other big airports like ORD or Orlando, or small regional like Billings, Mt or Minot, ND, left completely full, leaving several disappointed would-be stand-bys behind. If it was like that in United’s main Denver terminal, I cannot imagine what the chaos was like over in terminal C (Southwest’s main DEN terminal). I ran into folks who had been stranded in DEN at the airport for 3 days trying to get out.
I had been delayed 4 days myself from successfully getting out of Grand Junction due to delays and cancellations, and finally got assigned one of a tiny handful of spots that had come open on both the GJT =>DEN leg and DEN=>RDU leg (my seat was last row aisle, right by the loo). When I checked bags at GJT, the agent let on that my DEN =>RDU flight was overbooked, on the basis of projections that some passengers with reservations were likely to miss their connections into DEN, and a tiny handful (like 2-3) of these were in the extra-legroom seats (at a $109 premium). I asked him if he could give me the upgrade if I paid the extra $, as a hedge against lowering the potential to get bumped (couldn’t do it myself on the app) and he got it for me (the extra legroom was a side bonus under the circumstances). At least a dozen disappointed would-be RDU passengers on standby were left behind when our completely full flight left the gate.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
More leg room? Easily solved
Alison Rose
@Another Scott:
Okay, I’m not the best person to comment on this, because due to a…..let’s just call it a phobia but understand that that is a severe understatement…I haven’t been on a plane since 2009. But even before that, I always hated it for various reasons and never found it relaxing or enjoyable — with the key sole exception of the time my parents and I went to Hawaii when I was a teenager, because instead of giving us honey roasted peanuts (which they were still doing back then), we got chocolate covered macadamia nuts, something I’d never tasted before and which was pure and utter bliss. The little box they gave out had I think two in it, and after eating both of mine, I took advantage of the fact that at nearly-15 I still looked around 12 and sweetly begged the flight attendant for more. She gave me one more box. As soon as we landed in Honolulu, I found a newsstand in the airport that sold them and bought a lot more.
But anyway, other than that, for me, myself, personally, flying has always been a literal nightmare. Although I’ve never been through anything like what people have gone through this past week. Oy vey.
Philbert
Before dereg I flew Oakland-Seattle regularly for $175, with two free glasses of wine so I’d be ready for the rental car. They completed on service, not price. Standard inflation stats says that would now be $740. Now it’s $120. The savings come from somewhere. Cheap flights are wonderful but we need to raise the floor. Sounds like a winning policy for the Dems if only they had the sense to really thump the tub about it.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@Alison Rose: Yeah, I don’t have a phobia and there are one or two small things I actually like about flying. But I wouldn’t call the experience “enjoyable” by any stretch of the imagination. Even if the passenger in front of you didn’t recline their seat into your lap for the entire 6-7 hour trip so that you could not use your tray or see your movie screen (this happened to me once and I guess I’m still mad about it), it’s just not that relaxing.
6-7 hours is about my comfort limit. I do want to go to Australia one of these days, but the flight time required is kind of off-putting for me.
Edit: Just generated a random itinerary at Qantas to check the flight times. From here (Philly) it’s a 24 hour trip. 4-5 hours to another US city, a few hours in the airport, and then 15-17 hours in another plane.
Suzanne
I have a good friend who is a SWA flight attendant. He finally got home last night. This has been such an ordeal.
I have only had good experiences on SWA — flew them all the time when I lived in PHX, as they are the largest leaseholder at Sky Harbor — but this makes me inclined to avoid them at all costs moving forward.
Alison Rose
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: I mean, maybe if you can fly first class? I could see how that might be a nicer experience. But you’re still on a plane. Which is still bad.
Baud
@Philbert:
Honestly, I find it hard to accept the idea that doing something that increasing prices is unambiguously a winning policy for Dems.
Steeplejack
@Another Scott:
And you just blew two days of your trip driving, unless your time is worth nothing.
Another Scott
@Alison Rose: In the early ’70s I flew with my mom from Atlanta to Dayton a few times. We could get tickets the same day for a reasonable price, fly in a half-empty plane and stretch out, have decent relaxing service from the staff. It was a different time.
Cheers,
Scott.
Suzanne
@Alison Rose: You’re not old enough to remember when it was nice. My grandfather was a director for PanAm his whole career, and it was super-posh. I still have some of the crystal drinkware that they used in the first-class cabins.
tobie
@Elizabelle: Thanks, Elizabelle. I hope to touch base with you in better circumstances. My parents are in their 90s. They’ve had a good run and having them with me for so long gave me the false sense of security they’d be there forever. The final phase is hard. I didn’t realize how unprepared for it I was.
Nelle
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: When I lived in New Zealand, I made about 22 Pacific crossings, sometimes going to Australia on Virgin Australia and then back to Auckland (cheaper and I had the time). For me, it was dinner, two or three movies, a nap, and breakfast. I was used to it. But I haven’t been in a plane since 2019 (odd because I used to travel so much). I got used to eyeing everyone in the departure lounge; the ones I dreaded most were the basketball teams. Too many long legs. One time, though, I was in among the Jamaica netball team. All those women were over 6 feet. But they were lovely and folded up nicely, so no problems.
Baud
@tobie: Best wishes to you.
tobie
@Baud: Thanks.
Nelle
My best flight ever was from Fairbanks to Prudhoe Bay. I was non-revenue as my husband was a pilot with a small flying service that had an agreement with the airline (Mark Air). I (along with our four month old baby) were the last to board (and the only female passengers). We’d just got seated in our middle seat with beefy oil workers all around, when they came and took me off as a late arriving oil worker needed my seat.
I was trying to figure out how to notify my husband, who was flying from our village to Prudhoe to pick me up and there were no phones in the village, when a young bright spark looked up and said, “Hey, you are non-revenue! We’ve got a training flight going to Prudhoe in 30 minutes. We can get you on that.” So my daughter and I were the only passengers on some big Boeing plane. I’d been single parenting for two months up until then and the flight attendants totally took care of the baby the whole flight. It was grand. And I still got to Prudhoe before he did.
Baud
@Nelle:
Best Tinder profile ever.
Barbara
SWA hasn’t been cheap for a long time, and I don’t think it’s less expensive than anyone else at this point. Anything less than 400 miles I will most likely drive, with some exceptions based on how much time I plan to stay at a given destination and whether I would need to rent a car once I get there. I can also take the train up and down the East Coast. I am so happy we decided to stay home for the holidays this year.
I am so sorry for those who are stranded.
Alison Rose
@Suzanne: Sure, but I’ll just reiterate that for someone like me (severe motion sickness, severe phobia, etc), it could literally be an airborne Palace of Versailles and it would still suck.
Ken
HERESY! BURN THE WITCH!!
A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)
@Elizabelle: Chris Hayes has driven me crazy with the way he has kept talking about a “once in a hundred years” weather occurrence – freezing in Texas, flooding in wherever, hurricanes wherever. I think we have all noticed these things are happening A LOT more frequently! Even talking about a once-in-a-generation weather happening is too long a timeline (20 years). Maybe it used to be a hundred-year storm, but that world is gone now
The most depressing thing I read recently is that the last few winters have actually been milder than “normal”, since La Nina is in force. When it switches to EL Nino, it will be worse. Sigh.
hilts
@Another Scott:
I don’t recall air rage being an issue in the 70’s, 80’s, or 90’s.
Nowadays, it’s commonplace to hear stories about obnoxious passengers either mouthing off to fellow passengers or to flight attendants or starting physical altercations. I wish people could refrain from behaving like dirtbags for several hours in the air.
Suzanne
@Alison Rose: Sure. I am not as freaked out by flying as you are, but I do find it unsettling, and the best I can expect from a flight is to find it unremarkable.
But there genuinely has been a huge decline in service level in the US. I avoid flying if I can help it. One of the better aspects of living in Pittsburgh now is that I have taken the train a lot. Much more comfortable and much less bullshit.
trollhattan
@hilts: I’ll propose everybody now carrying a video camera explains a big chunk of the perceived uptick in shitty passenger behavior. OTOH the first couple years following 9/11, belligerence seemed to be replaced by jitters and full paranoia.
Baud
Although airplane seats are too small, these days I mostly find airports more annoying and stressful than the flights themselves.
ksmiami
@dmsilev: I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue…
Andrew Abshier
I was an aviation writer in the 1990s and did a major story on Southwest Airlines. I spent time on the ramp with ramp workers, FAs in recurrent training, had full run of headquarters in Dallas, and got 3 hours with Herb Kelleher. Back then Southwest was a highly respected carrier definitely on the rise. While they were heavily unionized the culture was such that management worked to help the workers and, by extension, their unions. Herb believed that the senior officers were there to serve the frontline workers, not the other way around. But even then he and others had concerns about maintaining this culture as they continued to grow; in 1991, they had around 10,000 workers; according to Wikipedia, today it is 66,100.
At this point I think Southwest’s senior leadership has succumbed to the whole toxic “fiduciary resposibility to the stockholders” and is more interested in cost-cutting and retaining antiquated scheduling software rather than spend on new. I have noticed that management-labor relations have significantly deteriorated since Herb left, and now unfortunately resemble many other U.S. carriers, though no Southwest union has gone on strike–yet.
I have over 100,000 Rapid Rewards points I was planning on spending on a trip to/from Seattle from Sarasota next year. I’m beginning to think I better book Alaska Airlines out of Tampa instead.
trollhattan
@Baud: Most of my flights are in the air less time than I spend in the airport beforehand. Ugh.
azlib
Too bad about SWA. The story I heard back in the Herb Kelleher days was, he would negotiate the union contract in the cafeteria at Dallas Love Field with the flight attendant union reps without any lawyers present. I guess those days are gone forever.
rikyrah
@Baud:
Kapow
Suzanne
@trollhattan: I do think that, as hustle culture has come to be a dominant mode of life, bad behavior does seem to be more of a thing. Anecdotal, but it feels real. Everyone is stressed out, low-grade, all the time, and that frays us. Can’t waste a moment of time, every bit of time and space feels packed.
West of the Rockies
I think we already know that Pete is a quality hire.
SiubhanDuinne
@Baud:
Southwest is the George Santos of Edsels.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
and the thunder dome quest for overhead space for steamertrunks on wheels
Matt McIrvin
@West of the Rockies: There’s a “Pete Buttigieg sucks” angle to this discussion over on LGM, not quite sure yet what it’s in reference to.
zhena gogolia
@Matt McIrvin: It’s in the original post here as well.
Baud
@Matt McIrvin:
The possibility that Pete could win the nomination in 2028.
CaseyL
That corporations’ first, last, and only responsibility is to their shareholders is enshrined in a SCOTUS decision from a few years ago.
While I’m sure many corporations are perfectly happy with that, there may actually be a few who are anything but happy about it: the SCOTUS decision hamstrings any effort to improve anything but profitability – and if you care about your business at all, you realize things like training, salaries, maintenance, and even (heaven forfend!) involvement in your community are important parts of growing a business.
The only ones happy with the current state of affairs are smash-and-grab artists, who want immediate maximum profits they can skim. Alas, that describes 90% (at least) of the CEOs and other high-ranking execs running the economy.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Baud: and the idea that politics, and the workings of our large, unwieldy, multiply divided government are just a matter of righteous, angry shouting
frosty
We decided to leave the trailer at home this winter and just spend two weeks in Key West. I looked at flights, decided too many were being cancelled (this was in September), priced gas, food, and motels for driving (four days), then checked the AutoTrain. All three methods were about the same price so we’re loading the car on the train in Virginia and 19 hours later we’ll be in Florida.
I’m so glad I made that decision. We’ll see how it works out.
tobie
This is listed as an open thread…so I’m going to switch topics for a sec.
The WSJ is reporting that a German signals intelligence officer was spying for Russia and possibly sharing secrets about Ukraine with Moscow.
Here I thought we were the only western govt with an infiltration problem. Silly me.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Given that Southwest is uniquely among the airlines having problems above and beyond the direct impact of severe weather, I don’t see how it’s a regulatory problem. The only government agencies that micromanage private business operations are banking agencies.
JWR
@dmsilev:
Does that reputation still include never having had a flight related fatality? Because if it does, Southwest riding on that particular laurel may be soon for the ashheap of history.
@Elizabelle: Oh yeah, the 737 Max. Those two oversized engines look so out of place on that plane.
And speaking of fear of flying, I once mentioned to a co-worker who’s a pilot and co-owns a Cessna that I had such a fear, and he replied, “you’re afraid of flying? Hell, JWR, I’ll take you up and scare us both!” ;)
David ⛄ 🎅The Establishment🎄 🦌 🕎 Koch
I’d make Mayor Pete walk the plank
WaterGirl
@tobie: Even when you know it’s coming, and you think you’re prepared, you’re really not. That’s how it was with me with my parents, anyway.
I think you can only grasp a loss like that to a certain extent, until it happens. Losing a parent, and especially losing the second parent, can really rock the foundation. It takes time. We will be here for you.
Geminid
@Matt McIrvin: A lot of people have an ax to grind against Pete Buttegieg. I think that much of this relates to old feuds from the 2020 primaries. I wish people were honest enough to admit this when they execute their hatchet jobs.
Carlo Graziani
It’s too bad, really. It wasn’t too long ago (immediate pre-pandemic era) that SWA had some really strong advantages going for it with respect to all other US carriers, from my perspective, anyway:
(1) The employees always actually seemed cheerful, and happy to work there, and reasonably eager to help passengers with problems if they didn’t behave like assholes. So their labor-management relations can’t always have been as bad as they are today. Certainly United’s used to be a lot worse;
(2) Their fares were simple, and didn’t require a degree in accounting together with a combination Mayan calendar/Ouija board to understand, which is still the case with every other airline today, and still distinguishes Southwest.
Part of the reason for the meltdown, according to today’s NYT (gift link) is their point-to-point scheduling system (as opposed to “hub-and-spoke” which is what all other airlines use) really draws a very poor balance between efficiency and resilience. So to be clear, this is not merely an IT issue, but runs deeper. Of course this is no excuse for attempting to make up for the fragility of the system by bad labor practices.
I hope they turn things around, by which I mean have a corporate come-to-Jesus moment, and go back to being the airline they once were, except with greater resilience in their scheduling.
Anyway
Improve the annoying TSA security theater first, Sec Pete. Twenty+ years since 9/11 and we’re still doing the same thing?! Get outta here
hilts
@trollhattan:
I don’t think it’s a matter of perception. A large segment of air travelers are simply ruder and more obnoxious than in previous decades. For various reasons, people simply feel entitled to behave like assholes in public.
Kirk Spencer
@hilts:
Oh, it was there. If you got a full flight or delays you got the rage.
My father worked for Frontier for a few decades till it went bankrupt. We’ll, central then frontier but I digress. Nonetheless he had tales, and I saw a few incidents myself.
Frankensteinbeck
@tobie:
Everyone has an infiltration problem. More or less all governments have spy programs, and those spies aren’t twiddling their thumbs doing nothing.
Chief Oshkosh
@Philbert:
What sort of flying experience would $740 buy you on an Oakland-Seattle flight? Would that cover business class?
schrodingers_cat
@Burnspbesq: Berners are still upset that Pete beat their Prophet in Iowa
WaterGirl
@tobie: I wonder if the Wall Street Journal has gift articles like some of the other papers do?
Right now, they seem to be the only ones who have this story.
twbrandt (formerly tom)
@Anyway: I don’t think Sec’y Mayor Pete has any control over the TSA, which is run by the Department of Homeland (in)Security
stacib
@jonas: Yup, just had one of those flights on United. It was horrible. I’m all of 110 pounds, and I was squeezed. I can’t imagine being a larger person and having to smash yourself into those tiny seats. And, before you get your boarding pass, an airline employee has to come over and confirm you aren’t trying to board with anything larger than a backpack (and no other bags, purses, etc.)
The Pale Scot
A large segment of
air travelerspeople are simply ruder and more obnoxious than in previous decades.LeftCoastYankee
As someone who spent 20+ years traveling for the holidays, I would submit the problem isn’t just with airlines.
The idea that traveling during the coldest and most dangerous (weather-wise) period of the year should be cheap, safe and easy, AND is also the ideal time for peak volume for travel, is mass insanity.
The first year we agreed to do a group vacation in February in a warm weather locale (or a rental vacation spot in the mountains in summer), it was obvious we were much happier individually and had a fun relaxed time together.
To be fair after experiencing first hand how the feds deal with a plane under a bomb threat (and those on it), I am not an eager flier.
lowtechcyclist
@Another Scott:
Um, there’s a reason they used to hand out mini-packs of cigarettes to all the adults on every flight. I grew up flying on a regular basis – my first memory of crossing the tarmac to get on a plane was when I was four years old – but back then, many, many adults were genuinely phobic about getting on a plane.
And while even back in the 1960s, flying any distance was safer than driving, there were a lot more crashes then than now. No wonder, with commercial prop planes cruising at 10,000 feet which was hardly above the weather.
Ruckus
@trollhattan:
I relayed the story of my sleeping on the terminal floor in Atlanta because the airline canceled the last flight of the day that wasn’t full enough. I rode on this flight often enough that I actually slept on that floor more than once. The first time they canceled the flight I took them up on the hotel room offered. I slept better and longer on the terminal floor than that crappy hotel room bed, especially after an almost 1 hr bus ride in each direction. (There aren’t a lot of cheap hotels near any major airport)
Flying around the country for work, on an almost weekly basis, means I’ve spent a rather inordinate amount of time in airports, on airplanes and my expense account’s largest entry every month was airplane tickets. First and last flights and cheap airlines are the worst offenders of cancelation but not the only problems. I’ve been stuck in airports and their crappy hotels by weather, equipment malfunctions – including computers, crew snafus, 9/11…. It was one of the reasons I left the decent paying job in pro sports – not the major reason but it was absolutely on the list.
Yutsano
Fast.
Cheap.
Good.
Pick two.
Carlo Graziani
@tobie: Very likely, the Russians mostly obtained confirmation of the twin facts that (1) everything in Russia is for sale, including every state secret and access to every communications network and obscure bit of infrastructure and every bit of gossip about state and military officials, and (2) Western intelligence agencies have a great deal of cash and other incentives to offer in exchange for such material, and a great deal of practice in suborning sources in hostile nations. Neither of which they are in a position to do much about, except perhaps play a bit of security-theatre Whack-A-Mole with the leaks that they can find in their colander of state.
tobie
@WaterGirl: I wish I knew how to gift the article. I can quote more liberally if you like. (I get free access through my employer, so I’m not sure how much I ‘own’ the account.)
tobie
@Frankensteinbeck: True. But this is someone reasonably high up in the German Intelligence Service and he’s been accused of treason by the German federal prosecutor. They’re not releasing his full name.
Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg
I like how the CEO believes SWA can “win back” customers.
Somebody at the mothership said “give no vouchers, give no info, hold onto luggage, call police on stranded passengers at layover cities for getting mouthy after a day or two, don’t spend money on software or call centers for crew assignments, have cruddy response times on customer calls”.
If you’ve lost your tropical winter vacation, lost out on your court-ordered Christmas parenting time, missed Grannie’s last Christmas, spent your Christmas Eve through 12/29 on a filthy airport floor, spent thousands of dollars on alternative arrangements or just been offered a future credit after waiting on hold for 10-20 hours, you’re not coming back regardless of glitzy ads or promises.
Fun fact – most parents in my stable of clients that have distance visitation use SWA because of price. There’s a fuckton of tweens and teens stuck in layover cities right now.
tobie
@WaterGirl: Appreciate it, WaterGirl.
Cmorenc
One if my geeky rituals on every flight i take is to time, with my iphone digital stopwatch app, the interval on takeoff between when the pilots hit the thrusters to initiate acceleration, and when the plane actually lifts off the ground. It is usually between 30 and 40 seconds, except on really large full (heavy) flights it can be a handful of seconds longer, but until monday never more than 45 seconds. My flight out of DEN to RDU monday was the longest i’ve ever monitored – 49 seconds, and frankly i had a twinge of anxiety as the timer went past 45 seconds.
Of course, if the plane i am on as a passenger goes past V1 (speed past which it’s too late to abort takeoff) without reaching V2 (speed at which plane can aerodynanically lift off ground in sustainable, stable fashion) before it reaches end of runway – not a damn thing i can do about it. But the ritual nonetheless successfully suppresses anxieties about takeoff, as counterintuitive as that may seem, um… except for last monday for 4-5 seconds.
BruceFromOhio
@frosty: my sister has done this twice now, and is booked for another in two weeks. She claims it’s safer and cheaper than driving down there by herself.
Anyway
@twbrandt (formerly tom):
As airports are under the jurisdiction of the Dept of Transportation, I think he might have a say in the decision. At the very least the policy is ripe for re-evaluation. The way it’s set up now we’ll still be removing our shoes in 2050 .
Geminid
@schrodingers_cat: Also, adherents of some other candidates were disappointed and may be jealous of Buttegieg. Who is “worth a shit” and is the kind of Democrat we need to keep around as far as I’m concerned.
Another Scott
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: And the giant coats and handbags and…
Yet the airlines are totally mystified why people don’t want to pay $20 more for the privilege of waiting an extra 30 minutes at the airport, assuming the bag made the flight at all…
Cheers,
Scott.
Yutsano
@Anyway: One step at a time. Let’s disband the proto-fascist Department of Homeland Security first. That’s one Dubya legacy that can shuffle off the mortal coil yesterday if not sooner. Then once the TSA is reconstituted look at how airports around the world do their security and maybe steal a lesson or two.
Ruckus
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
I was very used to flying as I’ve stated. Didn’t actually enjoy it but it was part of my job to fly 8 – 9 months of the year and it wasn’t bad. But looking at the amount of planes and the amount of cargo and the population centers and regional airports, and the fact that the US had/has relatively crappy railroad service and long distances between destinations, air travel is basically it. Sure sometimes it makes more sense to drive but that is a tad slower and has issues for some, like arriving anywhere near on time for something, like work or a holiday. I’ve traveled by train in Europe that took less time than flying and that was decades ago. Not because the trains went faster but because they went more often. In Los Angeles there are two commuter train systems, the all electric Metro and the diesel/electric MetroLink. The Metro runs normally every 12 minutes, the MetroLink makes fewer stops, travels on old RR lines and nominally runs every 30 minutes and is more expensive. It can be good for longer trips but I often travel 50 miles across LA by commuter train and it costs me less than a gallon of gas, often is faster because the traffic in LA seems to never get better. Now I’m lucky because the train travels where I’m going but still it is a hell of a lot easier and cheaper.
catclub
@Nelle:
My best flight.
Instead of driving and taking the ferry from Seattle to Orcas Island, San Juan airlines shuttle you to Boeing field, then weighs you before getting on. The day was glorious for looking around.
Scariest flight was on a converted small Uruguayan Airforce transport plane. We were operating instruments onboard, and there were extra fuel tanks INSIDE with us for extended range. On takeoff the fuel sloshed a bit and wetted some of our luggage. We did not hit any switches on the electronics for a while. We also kept the rear ramp door open all the flight except takeoff and landing – crazy scientists (us) put an instrument on the bottom of the ramp and it wanted to be horizontal.
Barbara
@frosty: Have done autotrain multiple times. If you are going for at least one week, and saving on car rental at the other end, it can be more cost-effective than flying. If you are going to Key West you could also consider flying to Fort Myers and taking a passenger ferry to Key West, where you do not really need a car.
Fake Irishman
@Cmorenc:
might it have something to do with the altitude of the airport you are taking off from? I remember lifting off in La Paz Bolivia once and thinking “ do you all need me to get out and push? After what felt like a 2 minute take off run. “El Alto” airport is well named at 13,000 feet.
Anyway
@Yutsano:
Disband DHS? I’m all for it.
trollhattan
@tobie: Yeah, that’s a bad infiltration if true.
Germany is still blending former East and West and there’s a lot of distrust still. IDK if that impacts the culprit in this case, but not everything is butter smooth since the Wall fell. (Guessing there are quite a few tankies among the Ossies.)
Geminid
@Ruckus: We should be seeing improvements in inter-city passenger rail service before too long. AMTRAK was starved for capital investment until the Infrastructure bill was passed in November, 2021. That legislation included $66 billion in AMTAK funding which, according to the AMTRAK chief, was more than the capital invested since the system was created in the 1970s. Among other results, a service map that remained static as the nation added 120 million residents will finally be expanded.
Gvg
@hilts: on the other hand the 70’s had planes take hostage by various criminal political criminals, remember that?
louc
I took the train this year and it was bliss — and on time, if not early!
Someone posted on Twitter that SWA spent lots of money to quash a high speed rail between Houston and Dallas (and someone else chimed in that airlines have banded together to smash other efforts at linking major cities with high speed rail). I hope this leads some pols to reconsider.
trollhattan
Amongst the many negative impacts of our shitty holiday 2022 weather is good news that California has managed to accumulate above-average snowpack from the far north through the southern Sierra. IF, and that’s always a huge if, we can continue with even a dead average Jan-March we will have our first good water supply in several years.
https://cdec.water.ca.gov/snowapp/swcchart.action
The rain returns tonight and will be here through New Year. Beginning Friday, we have a two-day flood watch, and I’ll bet 20% of folks here have never experienced that (looking at you, Bay Area refugees). Wheee!
El Muneco
I flew a lot up and down the West Coast around the year 2000, and some early morning midweek flights would have less than 30 people onboard, but they kept their schedule because the plane was needed in LA for the next leg, and it was more important to just keep all the pieces moving in predictable ways than to micromanage which routes were maximally profitable and shuffle planes around in real time to try to serve that.
Origuy
I just booked a trip on SW for two weeks from now, SJC-SAN. They still allow two free checked bags, which was a plus since I was thinking about camping in the desert part of the trip. That would have been about $150 more on AA or some of the others. They also issue cancellation vouchers that don’t expire, unlike Alaska. I had a trip to Seattle in 2020 which I cancelled. The voucher expired at the end of 2021, when I still didn’t want to travel and had no reason to go to Seattle, the only option.
prostratedragon
@Geminid: I can hardly wait. Just saw the brother off on a return via the Capitol Limited. He’d been a frequent flyer for years, but this fall realized he just could not deal with all the airport/plane drama. I might have started him off by training out to NYC last spring.
trollhattan
@Gvg:
“Take me to Cuba.”
“Huh?”
“Take me to Cuba.”
“Why?”
“I want to go to Cuba.”
“Why?”
“America, bad!”
“And Cuba is good?”
“YES!”
“OK, Uh, folks, I have an announcement.”
lowtechcyclist
@louc: And of course, GQP governors in various states stomped on the Obama Administration’s attempts to use the 2009 stimulus money to build high-speed rail routes in Florida and the Midwest.
Geminid
@louc: Conventional passenger rail can go pretty fast, and some places in the US already have speed limits exceeding 100mph. It could be a more pragmatic course if we build out our conventional passenger rail system.
Hoodie
Wife and I got caught up in this fiasco in Denver. Instead of sitting in line to talk to a ticketing agent in the terminal, my wife was smart enough to go outside and ask one of the curbside check-in guys for the skinny, telling her that the whole system was fucked and she better get a flight with another airline. Because of that, we were able to grab a flight on American before they got gobbled up. Still waiting for word from SWA about our checked luggage. This is a fuckup of colossal proportions. We met families with kids that were doing things like renting a van and driving to Atlanta from Denver.
What’s really bad is the continuing and constantly shifting ass-covering by SWA’s management. Initially, they tried to blame it on the weather, but it was obvious that the other airlines were coping with that. Then, it was the special complexity of their precious system. Yeah, if you’re going to have such a complex system, you better have some kickass software to run it, not some obsolete crap that preceded smartphones. Pretty clear that the days of Herb Kelleher are long past and the management is just another crew of mercenaries that juices the stock price to up their own compensation and make them darlings of Wall Street. They’ve been living on their reputation for too long and it finally caught up to them.
Mike in NC
We usually fly 2-3 times a year or less. Had not flown north for Christmas in 10+ years. The crowds were mind-boggling. Some delays but nothing really bad. Traveled on 5 planes and spent time in 6 airports. We self-tested for Covid today and were positive but feel no symptoms.
Barbara
@lowtechcyclist: Scott Walker, the dumbest governor ever, turned down high speed rail funds for a route between Milwaukee and Chicago. No one is going to fly between those two cities, and the traffic — especially on weekends — is nightmarish. Milwaukee would have benefited a lot from better proximity to Chicago. But I guess it was more important to snub the black guy than enlarge the economic prospects of your own citizens.
hilts
@Gvg:
I’m firmly opposed to both hijackers and unruly passengers.
Captain C
@catclub:
I once flew Aeroflot back in the USSR days, on a college trip to Leningrad (it was still called that), Tbilisi, and Moscow. The two domestic flights, (Leningrad->Tbilisi, Tbilisi->Moscow) were, um, not ideal. The airline interior looked and felt like a dilapidated third-rate imitation Greyhound bus, the seats were way too close to each other in most rows, and despite smoking not being allowed, everyone went to the back of the plane to smoke. I am convinced that the pilots were Afghan War vets, as it felt like the plane flew straight up after takeoff and went almost straight down on the approach. Also, there were farm animals on board in the cabin.
I think me and three of my friends went through two bottles of wine on the flight to Tbilisi. On the way to Moscow, we were delayed 8 hours in Tbilisi Airport due to some dispute between Russian and Georgian Aeroflot. A trio of Central Asian passengers used the extra time to get gloriously drunk (in those pre-9/11 days, we referred to them as the “drunken terrorists”). One of them got so wasted by the time we arrived in Moscow, he had no idea where he was (one of his almost-as-drunk companions kept saying “autobus, autobus” on the shuttle from the plane to the terminal).
Strangely (or perhaps not), the last Aeroflot flight we took, Moscow->Helsinki, was up to international standards (and even had a meal), though it was late so we had a free night with a $50ish meal voucher at the airport hotel. I got home the next day just in time for the Bills-Giants Super Bowl kickoff. Good times.
TS
@Another Scott:
I flew rarely before the 1990s because it was seen to be so expensive. My family went on holiday by train – 8 hours to go about 300 miles.
But on the odd occasion that I flew – it was best clothes and great service – both in the terminal and on the plane.
My aversion to flying started after 9/11 – this was when the queues became enormous and the service disappeared – we became cattle to be moved and prodded as security saw fit & the airlines became 100% about the profit motive & little else.
CarolPW
@prostratedragon: I love train travel, and yes it takes longer but I consider that time a vacation. In November I traveled eastern Washington to Portland to Los Angeles. Home to Portland leg went down the Columbia river gorge which is nice but I’ve done it a lot by car. The Portland-LA leg was on the Coast Starlight, one of the most picturesque routes ever. It took 36 hours and I loved every minute.
Geminid
@Barbara: This would have helped Wisconsin. That state’s economy has been stagnant relative to those of its neighbors.
Maybe Walker understood that if his state prospered the Republican party there would lose ground like it has in Illinois and Minnesota.
Almost Retired
@CarolPW: Agree on train travel. I never drive to San Diego for business from Los Angeles – I take the Surfliner. When my son was in school in San Luis Obispo, I usually took the train as well. Took a loooooong time to get out of Los Angeles and Ventura, but once you hit Santa Barbara, the ride was pure magic! And cheap!
trollhattan
Hope everybody’s sitting down for this shocker, from Vlad.
“I promise to behave, but only if I get to keep everything I stole and you pinkie-swear that it was mine all along.”
These people are beyond ridiculous.
Fake Irishman
@Barbara
There’s actually already a decent Amtrak service between Milwaukee and Chicago called Hiawatha, which runs 7 times a day. That stimulus money would have increased the daily runs to 17, increased the top speed from 79 mph to 110 mph AND run six of those trains through to Madison. It would have been getting close to Euro-standard rail (not HSR, but pretty good intercity standard) and viable service to Madison and eventually the Twin cities. Incredibly short-sighted by Walker.
Fake Irishman
@CarolPW:
Train travel is also great because you can work. I drafted two dissertation chapters on Amtrak between Ann Arbor and Chicago and Milwaukee, while on my way to and from visiting my sister. Amtrak on the NE corridor was also a decent option when I lived.
Now the AVE in Spain. That was spectacular….
Barbara
@Fake Irishman: As I sometimes say to my husband, if people like Scott Walker had been in power during the depression, large swaths of the country would still be without electricity, the way they are currently without high speed Internet.
CarolPW
@Fake Irishman:
Exactly. I used to take trains to Chemical Society meetings (like Sacramento to New Orleans or to Toronto) when I was in graduate school, and used that travel time to work on talks I would be giving, papers I was writing, and most importantly catching up on sleep.
Geminid
@CarolPW: One ongoing development in passenger transportation is the growth of inter-city bus travel. There is wider and more frequent service on the east coast at least, and the buses are getting better too, with wifi and small platforms for laptop computers. This is occurring at a time when car ownership among young people living in cities seems to be declining, and the two phenomena are probably connected.
This might seem kind of a retrograde move ecologically, but it won’t be long before electric buses will be deployed. They might ise hydrogen fuel cells in order to save battery weight.
Such power units used to be thought suitable only for applications like powering satellites. But the EU is leaning into a future hydrogen energy economy, and a couple hundred of Hyundai’s fuel cell-powered heavy trucks are on order by German companies. These trucks are already being used in Switzerland.
Another Scott
OpenThread: WBALTV.com:
Fingers crossed!
Best wishes, Rep. Raskin,
Scott.
Another Scott
@Geminid: As one might expect, hydrogen has issues that are rarely talked about, beyond the usual ones, and which must be addressed.
ACP:
As usual, TANSTAAFL. Every new technology is more complicated than the chalkboard cartoons.
As always, more R&D is needed, especially when talking about planet-scale deployment!
Cheers,
Scott.
VOR
@Barbara: No, it was worse than that. One of the train manufacturers was going to build a plant in Wisconsin to make trains for a passenger rail expansion. Chicago to Milwaukee was just the first leg, then Milwaukee-Madison and eventually over to Minneapolis-St. Paul was under consideration.
And then he fell for the Foxconn mess in time for his 2016 Presidential campaign.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Another Scott: damn, that man has been through enough
just saw a chyron that he’s gonna be on the Hayes program tonight
Geminid
@Another Scott: You need to tell this to those rubes over there planning the EU’s clean energy transition.
As for “blue hydrogen,” that will not be in the mix long term. Green hydrogen will be, and used in applications from steelmaking to heavy transport.
James E Powell
@hilts:
I agree that there is more rude & inconsiderate behavior now than, say, the late 80s early 90s. I put it down to the general increase in stress & tension. A lot, but not all, is the whole TSA ordeal.
James E Powell
@Fake Irishman:
Sure, but he sure owned those libs, didn’t he?
Ruckus
@Geminid:
I’ve take the train from LA to NorCal a couple of times.
Rather I paid for a rail ticket from Pasadena to Santa Rosa and the first 5 hrs was a bus to Bakersfield, train to Martinez, bus to Santa Rosa. Entire trip took over 14 hrs. A car takes approx 8 hrs. (and yes I have driven this trip more than once) It was cheaper though, and less stressful than driving. Of course someone had to pick me up at the other end.
Ruckus
@trollhattan:
I’ve been to Cuba. Guantanamo Naval Station but still, on the island of Cuba. Twice.
I’ve just told you all about my trips to Cuba. But I have been there.
Ruckus
@Hoodie:
This. A lot of companies in the US are in this boat, which is taking on water and is out of fuel. And it comes from poor planning and from going for maximum profits instead of company competence.
Ruckus
@Barbara:
I don’t know that Scott Walker was the dumbest governor ever, but I will grant you he’s in the 10 dumbest ever. Possibly dumbest 5.
Ruckus
@trollhattan:
These people are beyond ridiculous.
I say fucking insane but then I do swear a lot. Not that the assholes sort of in charge in Russia don’t deserve the description.
Ruckus
@Geminid:
LA county has pretty decent bus service and the Metro rail/subway system isn’t bad at all and is being improved as we type. And yes Los Angeles has a subway system. Not that much of one but it is being build upon to make it that I can ride from the east San Gabriel Valley to west Los Angeles with one change, from all electric train to subway. I now have to ride train-subway-train-bus, but the subway will take me right to my destination.
Geminid
@Ruckus: California seems like a geographically challenging transportation space because of all those mountains. But I wonder if the bus situation has improved and there are more riders now.
Lately I travel very little, but I’d still drive the 9 + hours to Atlanta and probably will in a couple of months. But I like driving and the roads are fairly direct and good.
The bus option intrigues me, though. There have been buses running straight through from Charlottesville to New York City for a while now, and they were inexpensive last time I saw. A through trip from Richmond to Atlanta, or with a short layover in Charlotte, seems like an efficient trip. Once the bus got to Petersburg it would all I-85. And once someone reached Atlanta MARTA’s subway trains and buses have good reach.
Buses certainly aren’t going to displace trains, planes and automobiles, but I think they’ll be an growing piece of the transportation mix. I believe the Infrastructure bill has a lot of funding for improving bus depots, etc.
Ruckus
@James E Powell:
It might also be that there are more people traveling than there used to be and many airports and airlines are maxed out. As much as some don’t believe it the air is crowed and the airports that can support a lot of traffic are about as big as they can get. The answer is that air transport is getting/gotten to about it’s maximum given our airports, transport to airports to get to fly, the TSA (that stands for Travel Slowing Administration). LA has new transit routes to LAX partially because traffic and parking is at or close to maxed out, especially on heavy travel days.
Another Scott
@Geminid: I’m not picking on you, or them.
Just saying that these things are more complex than they seem at first (or even second) glance.
Cheers,
Scott.
Geminid
@Another Scott: This component of the clean energy transition has gone quite a ways beyond the first and second glance.
Ruckus
@Geminid:
Buses are OK, especially for in town use, which in LA county is basically everywhere, we have decent systems but many are not used enough so they don’t run often enough which would make them more useful. Trains are far more useful because the trains have right of way over roads and it’s a closed system so they can run faster between stations. Buses fill the getting to the train station and short run efforts for many. The LA Metro train system is pretty damn good for an area as diverse and large as LA county and as I stated above is improving regularly. Just one segment, the L line which will eventually go from Long Beach to Pomona is on schedule and is hoped to be finished in 2025 if I’m reading correctly. LA has a pretty decent rail system for commuters that gets used a lot and they are expanding it because each train holds more people than a bus by a fair bit. I’ve ridden the rail system many times and it works well. The county is really trying to make it far more useable for far more people. https://construction.foothillgoldline.org/ has video showing what can be and is being done to increase train access and coverage.
Philbert
@Chief Oshkosh: Needs moar research! That’s just the number from google inflation calculator. It’s prertty boggling. I have no idea the difference in running costs now vs then. I suspect employees were paid and treated much better than now. We’ve had 40 years of squeezing.
RaflW
Stopping by very late to say Nina Turner is a grifting, desperate fool. She thinks blaming Pete Buttigieg for SWA’s lack of I.T. investment is smart tweeting. But she just comes off as a shrill moron.
That is all.
GoBlueInOak
@Burnspbesq: Don’t you have some offshore corporate tax shelter to go work in?
RaflW
@JWR: Southwest ruined that several years ago, when an in-flight engine failure broke the pressure seal and a passenger was partially sucked out of the fuselage and later died.
Sorry to those who are nervous fliers. Even if what is alleged in the OP is true about poor maintenance (and it can be), this particular freak accident is unlikely to repeat.
Origuy
@Ruckus: These days, you could get off Amtrak in Richmond, take a bus to the San Rafael SMART station, and take the train as far as Sonoma County Airport north of Santa Rosa.
SMART is the Sonoma Marin Rapid Transit. I’m not sure it would be a lot faster, but probably more comfortable.
Ivan X
@tobie: There is a refund form for you: https://www.southwest.com/traveldisruption/
RaflW
@lowtechcyclist: I will never really forgive the goggle-eyed homunculus (aka Scott Walker) for tanking the Twin Cities – Chicago fast train.
At least now there’s work under way to have twice daily regular service each way. Studies indicate the increased frequency and flexibility that offers will attract more users. I hope so!
Ella in New Mexico
@Another Scott:
And this “Bain Capital” style of management, my friend, is the answer to why so many great businesses in the US, most of which were very popular and profitable at the point of sale, have gone tits up over the last 40 years. And why we’re seeing the stock market running our lives and our retirements.
Corporate capitalists squeezing the literal blood from the front lines until they simply cannot operate anymore, either to make their own shares more profitable or to outright transfer the wealth elsewhere it might benefit them.
Elizabeth Warren was on to this years ago, wanting to take a page from some european Democracies and change the whole definition of fiduciary duty to shareholders to include things like it’s ok not to bankrupt your own businesses and put all your workers on the unemployment line just so you can keep their value for future vulture capital investments.