The Jan. 6 select committee has unloaded a vast database of its underlying evidence — emails between Trump attorneys, text messages among horrified White House aides and outside advisers, internal communications among security and intelligence officials — all coming to grips with Donald Trump’s last-ditch effort to subvert the 2020 election and its disastrous consequences.
The panel posted thousands of pages of evidence late Sunday in a public database that provide the clearest glimpse yet at the well-coordinated effort by some Trump allies to help Trump seize a second term he didn’t win. Much of the evidence has never been seen before and, in some cases, adds extraordinary new elements to the case the select committee presented in public — from voluminous phone records to contemporaneous text messages and emails.
Fun Facts:
Hope Hicks was “so mad and upset” that “we all look like domestic terrorists now.” (Apparently it was only a problem because it made her look bad?)
Hope Hicks thought Trump’s attacks on Mike Pence on Jan 6 were a bridge too far: “WTF is wrong with him?” (Okay, so she draws the line at murder. Everyone has to have standards!)
The Trump administration considered court-martialing retirees who criticized Trump.
Michael Flynn’s idea/plan to use “martial law” to seize voting machines or involve the military in Donald Trump’s effort to remain in power was apparently a bridge too far for his brother who SAYS he doesn’t agree with those views. (Not sure I’m convinced.)
Mike Milley classified a boatload of Jan 6 documents “at a pretty high level” to preserve them for likely future investigations.
Read the article, it’s not very long! h/t to the person who linked to this in an earlier thread. Maybe Geminid?
Open thread.
different-church-lady
My god these people are dumb….
Alison Rose
“WTF is wrong with him?”
Oh, Hope, honey. We don’t have time to get into that one.
Anonymous At Work
Drip drip drip
That’s how this’ll play out. Also, Tony Ornato cannot recall anything beyond his name, apparently. Jack Smith might have fun with more than a few proffers.
dmsilev
Has anyone queued up a head of lettuce to track against Kevin McCarthy’s tenure as Speaker? Assuming, that is, he gets elected in the first place.
WaterGirl
@dmsilev: Well, I checked the media library, and we do have lettuce. Not exactly a head of lettuce, and it’s from Marvel for a garden chat, but it could work in a pinch.
Baud
Why hasn’t this happened to Flynn?
WaterGirl
@Baud: I had exactly the same thought.
different-church-lady
@Baud: Because when they go low we… aw fuck every second of this timeline, what’s the point?
Geminid
@dmsilev: I believe in Kevin! I think he’ll last as long a head of cabbage
different-church-lady
@Alison Rose: Dear Hope: if you didn’t know the answer to that before you started working for him you ain’t never gonna know.
Baud
@Geminid:
I think he’ll go full rutabaga.
Barbara
@Alison Rose: Hope was mostly worried about her job prospects.
mrmoshpotato
Wow! She can fuck herself into the Sun!
Edmund Dantes
@Baud: crazy thing is Flynn has actually done actionable things that would warrant a court martial other than just criticizing the president in an op-ed.
SFAW
@Baud:
Because it only applies to retired military being critical of
traitorsTrump. Being critical of a Demon-crap president is the apotheosis of patriotism.Barbara
@Anonymous At Work: If Ornato refuses to speak by invoking 5th amendment rights, from an evidentiary standpoint, the only version of events will come from those like Cassidy Hutchinson who are willing to talk. It’s only he said/she said if he says something.
mrmoshpotato
Nevermind. Question answered.
Geminid
There are some memoirs I am looking forward to reading. One is that of “the Once and Future Speaker,”* Nancy Pelosi.
Another is General Milley’s. That guy has some tea to spill.
*Hey Watergirl! I think tomorrow would be a great time to post the nomination speech Hakeem Jeffries made for Nancy Pelosi in January, 2019.
It would be a good counterpoint to tommorow’s Speaker vote. And a lot of people will be happy to know what an inspiring speaker the new Democratic leader can be when the occasion warrants.
Baud
@Geminid:
Jefferies shouldn’t try to compete with the GOAT, but he is an upgrade when it comes to speechifying.
tobie
I hope the committee releases some damning texts and emails from Reoublican members of Congress before the speaker vote. Let the traitors squirm!
narya
@WaterGirl: @Baud: Yeah, me three. He has galloped WAYYYY past whatever line you want to draw. I actually am a little surprised–I’d think the military would want to rein him in.
Geminid
@Baud: They don’t call Hakeem Jeffries “the Brooklyn Barack” for nothing. That’s one of the best 2 1/2 minutes of oratory I’ve ever heard. Jeffries had Nancy Pelosi grinning by the end.
Betty Cracker
The Daily Beast also had a synopsis of the materials dump involving Hope Hicks. Hicks’ comments were from a text exchange she had with Julie Radford, Ivanka’s chief of staff.
For people like me who are 100% here for the pettiness, the context makes their consternation even more enjoyable. Trump-critical tweets from supermodel Karlie Kloss, who is married to Jared Kushner’s brother, are what kicked off their career angst:
LOL! Radford reported that she’d been “crying for an hour” and had already been blown off by VISA (for a job, presumably — good work, VISA!). Hicks lamented that she was now “unemployable” and “untouchable.” Sucks to be you, ladies!
AWJ
Pretty off topic but I just noticed that, of all people, former scholar turned “anti-woke” pundit Richard Hanania appears to be going through his “leaving the Right” moment. Antivax and Ukraine are turning out to be for him what Schiavo and Katrina were for many Republicans in 2005. He’s still a racist, nihilist shithead, but maybe he’ll have another epiphany and realize that if his side was so full of shit about Putin they just might be full of shit about IQ as well.
Geminid
@tobie: The Committee has released everything they will release, I think. Professional reporters and citizen journalists are poring over the materials right now and publishing highlights.
Between the Committee’s releases and Trump’s tax filings it will be a busy winter for a lot of folks.
Betty
@dmsilev: Michael Beschloss has.
Betty
@Barbara: She also provided texts she had with him that strengthen her version.
Chief Oshkosh
@different-church-lady: Actually, I think that this is a good reminder of what utter shits these people are. Hope Hicks and the other people who are coming across as semi-reasonable because they testified before the J6C pretty clearly ONLY viewed potential negative outcomes from the very, very narrow perspective of immediate effects on their careers. NONE of them thought for a nanosecond about the corrosive effects of Trump’s various debacles on the country. Even the best of this lot are sociopaths
ETA: I see that lots of others have made the point.
frosty
@Geminid:
Petty*, but thank you for “poring” not “pouring”.
* Not in the same magnificent petty ballpark as BC though.
Sure Lurkalot
Hope Hicks worked for the orange clown until 2018 when she took a Fox gig and then returned to work for the orange clown in 2020. Astute, she was not, but I think she might finally get it now.
WaterGirl
@Baud: @Geminid: @dmsilev:
I’m a Scaramuci girl, myself!, in terms of preferred units of measure.
West of the Rockies
@WaterGirl:
Kevin’s head reminds me more of a head of iceberg lettuce. Similar features, similar strength of character.
WaterGirl
@Geminid: Good idea! I will plan to do that. I have watched it multiple times, but if you have the link handy you can save me a google search.
I would also like to include his awesome clip about Ginni and her husband. Not asking you to search for it, but if you have it on hand, please share that link, too.
Frankensteinbeck
@Geminid:
This is the greatest nickname ever.
cain
@Betty Cracker: I didn’t know Jared had a brother – looking at the two of them together it looks like a fairly healthy relationship – eg warm, laughing, holding hands – compared to the weird cold thing that Jared and his family has.
Family gatherings must be fun.
VOR
@Barbara: As I understand it, he’s not invoking the 5th amendment and refusing to answer. Instead he’s saying “gosh, I don’t remember anything about that”.
cain
@Sure Lurkalot: Too late now – everything is coming out and the DOJ is going to be busy this year. Once that indictment comes – Trump is going to spill tea on everyone so that he can get a better sentence. They’ll have his head in a vice.
MisterForkbeard
@Sure Lurkalot: When she came back in 2020, she was probably betting on Trump successfully stealing the presidency. Coming back then would have been a great move!
eachother
Open Thread
Get well John Cole.
Get well my Friends, sick or suffering.
Republican travails will be uplifting. Enjoy the show.
Glory b
@Sure Lurkalot: Karlie Kloss, Jared’s brother’s wife, did not have her contract with Project Runway renewed.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I can’t get over the notion that White House staff Ivanka had a “Chief of Staff”. As somebody suggested on twitter, that’s what that self-important clown called her secretary.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
The “she” there is Ivanka? Ivanka is calling her staff (eyeroll) about her sister-in-law’s tweets?
scav
“Oh honey, does this little treason make my ass look big?”
different-church-lady
@Betty Cracker: I repeat: these people are DUMB.
patrick II
I think part of the problem with charging Trump, Flynn etc. with a crime is a classification problem. Russia is not an “enemy” in the strict sense since we have not declared war, so that stops many legal avenues for prosecution from moving forward. We need some named class for countries that go past the norms and laws of international competition but fall short of the “enemy” classification.
Russia is at war with us but in a way we have not named and therefore almost pretend doesn’t exist. We need a mental framework of useful terms that describe our situation more closely to what it actually is so that we can deal with it appropriately both strategically and legally.
Princess
Fun fact: turns out my sister knows Jack Smith. Has worked adjacent to him in a professional capacity. Says he’s very, very, very focused; very, very, very smart, “kind of terrifying.”
Lapassionara
@Betty Cracker: I’m definitely 100% here for the pettiness! Well put.
narya
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: My guilty pleasure in all of this is knowing that Vanky and hubs are THIRSTY to be part of the hip NY scene and suspecting they will NEVER be invited to the galas and events they want to attend. She imagines herself to be this amazing mogul and stylish trendsetter, and . . . she is not.
Geminid
@cain: My Atlanta friend joked that Mark Meadows and his attorney will meet with the prosecutors and the attorney will them, “My client is now ready to flip on Trump in return for a lighter sentence. We propose a plea to…”
But the prosecutors will cut him off. “It’s too late” they’ll say. “Trump has already flipped on your client.”
Chetan Murthy
@AWJ:
So many thoughts!
got a link? So we can all savor?
per the quote, he’s not “leaving the Right”: he’s just embarrassed by them.
maybe he’s going
tofrom MAGAt to anti-anti-MAGAt ?Such putzes, these yutzes.
Betty Cracker
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: That’s my assumption. I’m also rolling my eyes over the “chief of staff” designation. Jeebus, what a bunch of arrogant jackasses! I wonder what Ivanka expected Radford to do about Kloss’s tweets? Seems like there was some sort of kerfluffle between the Trumps and Kloss previously, but I don’t remember what it was about.
Lapassionara
@patrick II: yea. It used to be that trying to undermine our nation’s security didn’t have to be a crime to be “bad” and “disqualifying for public office.” It was wrong, and everyone (well most everyone) agreed it was wrong. Now we parse federal criminal statutes to determine if undermining our nation’s security is a delineated crime.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Geminid: somebody on MSNBC asked Barb McQuade if she thinks Meadows has flipped, which is what the more hopeful voices in my head whisper to me. She kind of cheerfully said, “Maybe, but there are lots of potential targets for flipping” and she rattled off a few names that escape me now, but that I recognized.
@Betty Cracker: I think she and the brother– who IIRC manages what is essentially the Kushner family hedge fund– attended the women’s march, and Kloss occasionally subtweets the trumps
Geminid
@WaterGirl: I appreciate your work here so much that I am reluctant not to help in linking to Jeffries’ nomination speech. But I am an uncertain linker and besides, I am not set up review You Tube material and do quality control.
But maybe I can come by this summer and pull weeds for you. I’m good at that.
Chetan Murthy
@patrick II: Thing is, they’ve always been not-an-enemy, right? I mean we didn’t declare war on Russia in the Korean or Vietnamese war. But I’d expect that if an American general had given aid and comfort to them during those conflicts, we’d have had their asses in a sling lickety-split. And the same during Cold War periods when were weren’t involved in armed hostilities, too.
Something else is
going ongoing wrong.narya
@Betty Cracker: On Project Runway, one of the contestants tried to drag Kloss for being related to Jared (which was tacky AF, tbh, and which did not save him from elimination for his crap design). I hadn’t known of the connection, but thought it might not go well for her in the long run, and I see I’m right. Golly, what a tragedy.
Betty Cracker
@Geminid: I read somewhere that Meadows won’t be charged with voter fraud, even though he was registered at an NC address containing a mobile home he’d never personally set foot in. I was pissed off when I read the headline, but upon reviewing the rationale given by the local authority, it made some sense. Apparently Meadows’ wife kinda sorta lived there, and the law provides latitude on official residences for people who reside in DC for government work.
Anonymous At Work
@Barbara: Unless others corroborate her story (which I believe has happened), and then records-requests show that he did remember until the moment he was under oath.
Overall, he’s a bit player, so there won’t be a push for perjury on his “I don’t recall”s (which is really hard to prove in court) and more for Obstruction if he destroyed or “lost” records.
Chetan Murthy
@WaterGirl: Voila https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Bpiv3mgD6Q
Chetan Murthy
@Chetan Murthy: Juicy bits: at 1:00 … “but Nancy Pelosi is just getting started”
Alison Rose
@Lapassionara:
That’s why we’re all here at Balloon Juice.
Dangerman
Seems to me today would be a killer day to indict the Motherfucker; would make tomorrows vote for House Speaker a lot of fun to watch.
JoyceH
@Betty Cracker:
Oh, same! Putting aside that she’s the president’s daughter (“Sasha Obama’s Chief of Staff”), the notion of ANY White House staffer having their own CoS is just ludicrous. Sheesh, these people weren’t creating a White House staff, they were creating a Byzantine court.
Frankly, it’s always seemed silly to me that the First Lady has a CoS, but that’s been the case for decades, so at least it’s hallowed by tradition.
Delk
Haha… you spend a couple years shoveling shit hoping to clear a path to the treasure chest only to find out that the treasure is just more shit.
narya
@JoyceH: It’s all part of the grift: I expect that we, the taxpayers, paid those salaries.
Bill Arnold
@Princess:
That is very good to hear, even as an anecdote.
It’s also the emerging general impression of him.
Betty Cracker
I’m still skeptical about whether Trump will ever be charged with any of the many crimes he has blatantly committed, but Josh Marshall made a good point about that in a podcast episode I heard over the holidays. He said he thinks Trump probably would have been off the hook if he hadn’t stolen all those documents and then stonewalled when the presidential records people tried to get them back. By doing that, he demonstrated that he’s an ongoing threat to the rule of law.
WaterGirl
@Geminid: Someone pulling weeds is like gold!
edit: I just searched and found both videos.
patrick II
@Chetan Murthy:
First, we were in a shooting war with North Vietnam, although even at that it would have been tough to try someone for treason since it was an undeclared war.
Nixon, thru Kissinger and other people whose names I forget, sabotaged Johnson’s peace talks with the North Vietnamese, and Reagan did a similar thing to Carter. It was not called treason, and if you did some lawyer would say there was no declared war so it couldn’t have the legal consequences of treason.
Part of why they were not charged is politics (some would say political cowardice) but part is the ambiguity of it not being, at least legally, treason.
WaterGirl
@Chetan Murthy: Thank you!
WaterGirl
@Lapassionara: So say we all!
UncleEbeneezer
@Princess: The Jack Podcast just released a deep dive episode titled Who Is Jack Smith?
Bill Arnold
@Chetan Murthy:
Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were executed for espionage for the USSR. We were not in a declared war with the USSR. Which would have been a nuclear war.
These people are arguing that working for a very hostile adversary that we are not fighting a nuclear war with is not technically treason.
JoyceH
@Betty Cracker:
Not only that, but an ongoing threat to national security! The Nat Sec folks are FREAKED about those documents that were lying around a club basement for two years!
M31
now that just warms the cockles of my heart
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Betty Cracker: I was half listening to Andy McCabe’s podcast with Allison Gill of Mueller, She Wrote, and they made a couple of points: 1) Jack Smith is not someone you bring in to not prosecute and 2) Smith prosecuted John Edwards, where the interesting aspect to me was that the prosecution of Edwards took two years to come to trial, a far less complicated and far less important case than trump and 1/6 (and Edwards was acquitted, by a jury)
I’m still somewhat bemused by the notion of a former (acting) Grand Muckety-Muck of the FBI having a podcast, but I guess it’s no different from the hundred or so ex-Senators and heads of big gov’t departments who are “contributors” to the cable networks.
JoyceH
@M31:
Same. I’m getting impatient. I want indictments and I want them NOW! He can start small – charge those phony electors. ALL of them. Charge the assholes who called in death threats to election workers. Charge Giuliani with something. But I want to see the Big Guy indicted before the end of 2023.
WaterGirl
@UncleEbeneezer: It’s a good one! I listened to it last night.
UncleEbeneezer
@Betty Cracker: One of the great points that the SistersInLaw podcast made on their most recent episode is that as the 1/6 Committee laid out in their final report/hearing, Trump can be charged with “Aiding and comforting” the Insurrectionists. It has a much lower legal bar and less 1st Amendment complications than proving he caused (or conspired to foment), the attempted Insurrection:
18 USC 2383: Rebellion or insurrection: “Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.”
UncleEbeneezer
@WaterGirl: I’m only 20 minutes in so far, but loving it.
James E Powell
@narya:
The FTFNYT has staff devoted to their rehabilitation.
trollhattan
If you happen to toil at Home Depot for minimum wage, the founder has your back.
WaterGirl
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Andy McCabe on that podcast is very interesting, he has an excellent voice, and I appreciate his take on things.
“This cake is 3/4 baked, but I won’t call it a slam dunk because of course anything can happen.”
Loved his response to AG’s question/comment about Rod Rosenstein. “You have no idea.” It was all in the delivery
I also love the small peek behind the curtain, something like: “Mueller has one speed, socially. If he’s busting your chops, you know you’re good. If he’s not, that’s not good.”
WaterGirl
@trollhattan: How dare he say that about BillinGlendale! They are lucky to have him.
justawriter
@scav: “No, Jared has looked that big since I’ve known him.”
Betty Cracker
@JoyceH: Great point. One of the major dailies (WaPo maybe?) did an interactive piece with a blueprint of Trump’s Florida roach motel that outlined where the documents were found during the raid and how simple it would have been for any paying guest to access them.
narya
@James E Powell: I suspect Anna Wintour DNGAF.
Baud
@trollhattan:
Billin concurs.
Alison Rose
@trollhattan: I’m sure Mr Marcus works incredibly hard. Poor dear must be exhausted.
scav
@trollhattan: As though the Holy of Holy economically rational man would give it away for free.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@trollhattan: I keep thinking of the immigrants DeSantis and “Perla” kidnapped. They were lured onto that plane with promises of…. work.
UncleEbeneezer
@WaterGirl: The only thing with McCabe is he sounds so young! Every time he speaks I’m like “how is this guy old enough to be former head of theFBI?” lol. But his insights into how DOJ/FBI really operates are really great, imo.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@trollhattan:
For the last fucking time, Marcus, labor shortages are not because people don’t want to work, it’s because there’s simply not enough people to fill those jobs. This has been a problem for Europe and parts of Asia for years and it looks like the US is beginning to face the same type of demographic problems
I tried telling a Gen X couple at work the other day complaining that they can’t find anyone to stay working at a factory the husband is a manager at about a BlackRock report mentioning labor shortages in the US due to this. Just immediately dismissed what I said. Nope, kids are lazy and Gen X love to work! It was so infuriating
Nicole
@Betty Cracker: I had the same reaction to the Mark Meadows thing- I was FURIOUS when I read the headline, but then after reading the article I was all, “Oh… okay. Fine. I get it. I DON’T LIKE IT, but fine.”
Anonymous At Work
@Betty Cracker: I agree because those crimes do not have a difficult mens rea (mental state) requirement. There’s too much direct evidence that Trump was repeatedly told it was illegal to take and to retain the documents.
Same with “aiding and abetting insurrection” doesn’t require a belief that it is an insurrection, only that aid was given intentionally to those who conduct was an insurrection. (Lawyers, double-check me on that)
different-church-lady
@Betty Cracker:
well yeah! It’s a hospitality business. If a guest is paying you to see top secret government documents then it only makes sense you gotta keep them somewhere easy to get to!
Betty Cracker
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: We’ll just have to wait and see. I’m flinchy from past teasers that failed to fully pan out (Fitzmas! Mueller Time!) so feel a tad superstitious about the lionization of Smith. Looking for a Goldilocks cynicism-to-hope ratio. ;-)
CaseyL
@JoyceH: I also want to see Orange Julius indicted, convicted, and imprisoned.
But more important to me for ongoing domestic security reasons is indicting, arresting, and convicting his enablers: the ones currently holding seats in Congress, the governors, and (it’s a long reach, but maybe baby) the oligarchs – foreign and domestic – holding the purse strings.
trollhattan
Holy crap, Flynn is All In with the treasoning. He truly is one of Vlad’s dancing poodles (apologies to most poodles, the rest of you lot know who you are).
JPL
@Alison Rose:SinceT he’s 93, I assume naps are a big part of his life. What surprised me is that how he can support a party that is antisemitic.
Dorothy A. Winsor
My impression is that Ivanka functioned as a sort of First Lady (gross, I know). Hence the CoS
Geminid
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: The problem I see with Meadows with respect to incriminating Trump (in the Insurrection at least) is that Meadows might not have first hand knowledge. Neadows might know about stuff but he might not know stuff.
Trump is a career criminal who learned to do his criming through a very few trusted people. I doubt if he trusted Meadows in this way. Meadows was part of organizing the “soft coup” intended to short circuit the Electoral vote. But maybe not part of the invasion of the Capitol, which was the “hard coup.” Meadows’ knowledge there could be second hand.
I would not be surprised if the only person Trump trusted in organizing the Insurrection was Roger Stone. Stone definitely had ties and sway with the right wing groups that provided organized foot soldiers. Stone did not have to explicitly say he spoke for Trump because they knew he had Trump’s confidence. Trump had given them the word to come January 6- “It will be wild.” Stone coordinated the actual action plan, and then when the plot failed Stone hightailed it out of town.
Stone is made of sterner stuff than Meadows. He’s a freak who will be difficult if not impossible for prosecutors to break.
But maybe Stone will break. Or maybe Trump got sloppy with his operational security and told things to more people than he should have. There was an aspect of improvisation here that might have led to mistakes like that..
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Betty Cracker: this piece about Mar-A-Lago is built around one of trump’s favorite members. A former dancer at the Copacabana (yes, the hottest spot north of Havana) who married a mega-rich car dealer– it’s horrifically fascinating. I suspect he liked to show people like that the KJU letters. I’m surprised we haven’t heard about some kind of “platinum membership” at MAL where the unwritten benefit was being able to see shit like that. A little tour of boosted classified documents.
MAL is one of the few trump properties that actually turns a profit, especially since he doubled the membership fees about a week after being elected.
JPL
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Can’t imagine that Ivanka liked all that f..king X-mas stuff either. She did travel with him overseas and was mocked.
AWJ
@Chetan Murthy: Here you go. A year ago Hanania was was calling anti-vaxxers “the lesser of two evils” compared to the unspeakable horrors of CRT and LGBTQ, so it seems to have been a combination of the Ukraine war not going at all the way his pRiOrS predicted, and having a daughter in the year Dobbs came down, that pushed him over the edge.
This post from October seems to be when his journey began. The shock and disappointment from his Yarvin-ite subscribers is delicious–just read the top comment!
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Think how trashy you have to be to buy a membership at Mar-a-Lago
Steve in the ATL
@Anonymous At Work:
Without getting a retainer up front? Man, you don’t know us at all!
Dorothy A. Winsor
@JPL: He tried to push her off on legit women leaders to talk economics. It was embarrassing.
UncleEbeneezer
The Legal AF podcast talks about how productive 2022 was for the wheels of Justice setting in motion and make predictions on 2023 charges to come for Trump and his ilk. There’s also a good discussion of the 1/6 Committee transcripts at the beginning of the episode and a good rundown of the many lawsuits that Trump will face this year.
Peke Daddy
@dmsilev: Michael Beschloss has a head of iceberg teed up.
JoyceH
@CaseyL: Oh, definitely! I so want the Special Counsel to subpoena Jordan and Roy and all those sitting members of Congress who are chortling with glee about all the retaliatory investigations they’re planning to launch at the Biden administration. Keep them busy trying to stay out of jail for their own criming.
mrmoshpotato
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
That’s an insult to actual trash.
🐾BillinGlendaleCA
@trollhattan:
@WaterGirl: Bernie’s comments have been the subject of several threads over at the Reddit devoted to the Home of the Orange Apron, let’s just say the reaction has been a bit less than positive towards his remarks. My only comment is that I have lost over 50 pounds since I began my time as an Associate.
Steve in the ATL
@JPL: his money is more important to him than his faith. Money is his religion.
ETA: which is not uncommon at all, sadly. Though I suppose it’s less destructive than Wahabbism.
Ruckus
@Alison Rose:
Thank you for this laugh…
Steeplejack
Eek. Brentford upsets blog favorite Liverpool 3-1 in the EPL.
Chetan Murthy
@AWJ: THANK YOU FOR THIS! I’m reading, and clearly I must retract my previous statement up-thread. Back in a bit!
Steve in the ATL
@Steeplejack: Arsenal or GTFO! Though I do like Liverpool since the city birthed a great band, Echo and the Bunnymen. Do it clean, friends!
🐾BillinGlendaleCA
@JPL: He has a rather large ship that he can take those naps on.
AM in NC
@Betty Cracker: Hope Hicks managed to survive the negative press from first impeachment and then went quiet, supposedly retiring from Trump World. To see that she was still all up in there, and that the ONLY thing she was concerned about was her own career prospects and image just seems like par for the course for this empty hair sack.
She can just fuck right off, and I hope all of her venality is made very public and she becomes unemployable outside of a retail mall job where she has to interact with the regular folks in the food court.
Steve in the ATL
@🐾BillinGlendaleCA: enjoying the new camera?
Anonymous At Work
@Steve in the ATL: “Anonymous At Work, Esq.” here but not looking up the specific statute unless needed. “Aiding and abetting” statutes usually don’t require intent to aid/abet the crime, just intend to aid/abet.
Amir Khalid
@Steeplejack:
Woe is me!
🐾BillinGlendaleCA
@Steve in the ATL: Yes, it beats the crap out of the old Sammy.
ETA, an example:
Each 4 minute exposures, same ISO:
Samsung NX-1
Sony A7iv
Night and Day difference.
jonas
@Betty Cracker:
I think that’s right, too. Had he just quietly returned the damned documents, the NARA would have probably just let it slide and any counter-intelligence investigation would have been handled quietly as well. But no. Trump being Trump, he had to fuck around. Inshallah, he’s about to find out.
Mai Naem mobile
@Princess: that makes me very very very happy.
Also makes me very very very happy that Katie Hobbs was sworn in as AZ Governor today, Adrian Fontes as AZ SOS and Kris Mayes as AZ AG. We still have a GOP Treasurer and Educ Head but those were the non nutjob GOPrs on the statewide ballot.
Chetan Murthy
@AWJ: The top comment to which you refer seems to be gone, ah well.
Wow, he’s started on quite a journey. He actually think LGBTQ human beings are a less-bad problem than antivaxxers! Wowsers! Give him a decade and he might end up where Jennifer Rubin is today (who, in a decade, might be where David Brock was in 2008).
Good for him! I (again) retract my earlier criticism of him.
P.S. I do wonder how much of his conversion comes down to being the father of a daughter, and that making the scales fall from his eyes. To the extent that that happened, he’s better than the average conservative, who wouldn’t have gone from “Dobbs is bad for my daughter” to “LGBTQ folks aren’t a problem”.
lowtechcyclist
@patrick II:
Which is why Henry the K will always be a war criminal in my book. And I’m still pissed at Hillary for declaring “Henry Kissinger is a friend of mine” back in 2014. I will never be a fan of hers.
Ruckus
@Baud:
He is retired military as of 2014. Could he be recalled? Possibly but what’s the point? He’s not going to get a worse punishment in the military than in civilian life. So what’s the point?
And if he’s tried in the military it would have to be for treason to be worth it and that would be extremely unlikely, even if it’s true. But my point is that he didn’t do the crap he did as a military officer, he’s retired. Sure he plays the high end officer crap on everyone, the guy who knows everything and sure he’s likely guilty of helping to overthrow the government, but he did that as a civilian. Now taking away his retirement income might be fun…..
trollhattan
Guessing Adam will cover this tonight–incoming Israeli foreign minister–he of Bibi’s new gummint–signals possible pivot towards Russia in Russia-Ukraine war.
patrick II
@Bill Arnold:
Espionage isn’t treason. There are legal consequences for espionage that don’t require a “declared enemy” to be the recipient of military or political information of a classified nature.
Treason seems to be different. Anytime someone here says Trump should be tried for treason, someone else almost immediately comments that treason is only an illegal act when the act is aiding a declared enemy. I am not a lawyer, but it seems espionage does not have the legal requirement of aiding an enemy nation while many assert Treason does. It would be nice to know for sure.
Sure Lurkalot
@trollhattan: WSJ had an article over the weekend whose 1st line was “Where have all the go-getters gone?”, the new ancillary to “no one wants to work anymore.”
Apparently, people don’t want to work 95 hours/week at the same pay as 40, and it’s gone SO FAR, that bosses are contemplating hiring EXTRA staff to make up for the horrible slackers. And all this not the same as before COVID. And apparently, only in the U.S. because those hires in India and Canada are just as go-gettery as ever.
I read WSJ free through my library, so, sorry, no link.
Steve in the ATL
@Ruckus: @Baud: great novel (like all of his) that deals with this theme:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_of_Honor_(novel)
Alison Rose
@trollhattan: Does Lavrov think Bibi is also a Nazi? Or is it only Ukrainian Jews who are Nazis?
VFX Lurker
One theme I see in Secretary Clinton’s career is all her many good works minimized or erased, and a big bright spotlight placed on every last one of her mistakes, missteps, misfortunes and flaws.
I hope the excellent Vice President Kamala Harris has an easier time when she runs for President in 2028, but she’ll likely have an even harder time because of misogynoir.
Ruckus
@cain:
It’s possible it will depend on who his lawyer is if SFB says word one.
However I do agree that he’s likely to have a meltdown and shout and yell about everything. He’s too stupid and self-centered to not shout from the rooftops everything he did, because he considers himself the top of the heap of humanity. Even though he’s the bottom of the shitty pile that is the last thing picked by the hazmat team because it is the most useless, non recyclable pile of crap ever.
Chetan Murthy
@Sure Lurkalot: I might have mentioned previously that when I was a kid in
WeatherfordEast Incest TX, the local butchery paid $12/hr. In 2022 dollars, that $43/hr. That’s for a job with only a high school degree. Weatherford was a small town with 30k residents, and as you might imagine, $86k/yr would go a long, long, long way in such a town.This Home Depot CEO can DIAF. I’ll provide the gasoline.
trollhattan
@Alison Rose: SWAG “One of the good ones” in that classic mode.
However, Israel and Russia playing buddy-buddy even a little will make Tehran cranky, and who’s Vlad’s good missile and drone buddy, lately?
AM in NC
@trollhattan: Funny thing is his founding partner, Arthur Blank, also a billionaire, is a Democratic donor. One of his daughters went to my high school (after I graduated) and a good friend of mine taught her and said she was a down-to-earth delight.
Not saying Blank is perfect (he owns a football team, eg). but he does show that you don’t have to be a maximal asshole across the board when you have wealth. Langone and Marcus, on the other hand, are evil predators who would steal every penny not nailed down and then blame the penniless for having nothing.
Geminid
@WaterGirl: The clip of Hakeem Jeffries ripping Ginni and Clarence Thomas would definitely be a crowd pleaser. One commenter here whose opinion I respect thought the last part was a little heavy handed.
That short speech was made in the Judiciary Committee, where members are often allotted two minutes to speak. Another even better one was the time (February, 2021, I believe) when Jeffries took freshman member Burgess Owens (R-Utah) to the woodshed.
Owens had just made his first speech, and Jeffries was having none of Owens’ attacks on Democrats. His rebuttal was like a finely cut gem, with some nice improvisation when Republicans started hollering “Point of order! Point of order!” Chairman Nadler gaveled them down, and then Jeffries delivered a crushing riposte.
On Twitter, Jeffries fans pointed out how this short speech exemplified both the language of the New York street (“You know what?…”) and the rhetoric of the Black Church (in the way he would express a thought three times in different ways).
Jeffries is a practiced and effective communicator in short and long forms. He has many strong qualities, and one of them, I think, is that he is deep.
mrmoshpotato
@VFX Lurker:
You ain’t fuckin’ kidding!
Anyway
@Chetan Murthy:
Anecdata: in my cohort I’ve noticed that R dads of daughters sometimes soften their conservatism or in one-or-two cases turn their backs on Republicanism.
WaterGirl
@Anonymous At Work:
Unless you’re black. How long was that woman in prison?
WaterGirl
@Geminid: Mark Meadows burned papers in the fireplace after meetings. I think Meadows knows some serious stuff. Maybe not the worst of it , but I think he knows a lot.
edit: Stone is the one person I think will never break. Ivanka and Jared, I think they would sing like canaries in the right circumstances.
Anyway
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
OMGI I had this same conversation on NYE — “nobody wants to work, young people these days blablabla”. I wasn’t having any of it and probably got labelled as shrill”shrill”. Shrug…
MattF
@trollhattan: There are a lot of ex-Russians in Israel and, I’d guess, a lot of ex-Ukrainians. No idea how that pulls or pushes in domestic Israeli politics- but it’s safe to assume that somewhere between none and very few of them are looking for a way to get back.
WaterGirl
@Dorothy A. Winsor: No thank you! :-)
WaterGirl
@🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Still walking 30,000 steps a day at the orange place?
Chetan Murthy
@Anyway: And that is commendable, albeit (for us) not enough. Commendable. It is even more commendable when they can go from a concern for their daughters, to a concern for other oppressed parts of our society.
Chetan Murthy
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Good for you! Raise wages! Cut dividends!
WaterGirl
@Amir Khalid: Just want to say that I have really been appreciating your comments of late. Glad to see you in such good form.
Another Scott
@lowtechcyclist: Meh.
Economist.com from 2012:
Talking with predecessors is not a bad thing. It’s a good thing (99% of the time). Living Secretaries of State is a tiny group of people, and it pays to get their thoughts even if you vehemently disagree with their policies.
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
Amir Khalid
@WaterGirl:
It’s nice to be appreciated. Vielen Dank.
mrmoshpotato
@WaterGirl:
Like Russians about to be expelled from the US!
Chief Oshkosh
@Betty Cracker:
That’s what was stated in the article, but it wasn’t clear to me who said exactly what. Until shown otherwise, my assumption is that the local official who made the decision pulled that out of his ass, knowing that the reporter/stenographer wouldn’t question it.
Geminid
@MattF: Israel’s policy on the war in Ukraine is conditioned by their own security interests, particularly their freedom to operate in Syria where Russia effectively controls the airspace with their missile batteries based in northwest Syria.
Polls show that a majority of Israelis take Ukraine’s side in this war, but that a majority also back their country’s policy of non-alignment as expressed by their unwillingness to provide arms to Ukraine.
In this respect Israel is like South Korea, another U.S. ally that will not provide Ukraine with weapons for fear of damaging relations with Russia, even as it sells Poland hundreds of tanks.
Both South Korea’s and Israel’s security situations are fraught with danger in a way ours are not. Both are threatened by scores of thousands of missiles that are just across their borders and controlled by hostile countries who from time to time threaten to reduce Seoul or Tel Aviv to rubble.
This is not to justify their Ukraine policies, just to explain how they see this question differently than we do.
Kay
@Chief Oshkosh:
Residency is suprisingly vague and mushy. This is Ohio:
Ohio is not considered your voting residence when:
You have moved to another state and vote in that state;
There are specific circumstances where you maintain your Ohio voting residence even though you are absent from the state. You will not lose your voting residency in Ohio if:
The cases end up turning on “intent”- did you intend to return? They use driver’s license, employer, professional certification, taxes etc.
There was one 2010 Ohio case regarding a voter who had a residence that he worked out of in Chicago and a residence in Ohio. I felt he could have voted in either place (just not both) although as a practical matter he spent most of his time in Chicago and the court agreed because he was deemed “an Ohio resident” for that vote.
Burnspbesq
How does the election of a Speaker work? Is it by a plurality of votes cast, or is a minimum of 218 required? Cuz if it’s the former, and Rs descend any further into chaos, whoever the Ds all vote for (presumably Hakeem) could end up as chief herder of an uncontrollable cattery.
Chetan Murthy
@Burnspbesq: So I read, that’s called a “clowder”.
Betty Cracker
@Chief Oshkosh: I don’t remember where I read the article let alone the exact wording, but I thought it made sense because it’s pretty common for elected/administration officials to maintain residences in DC and their home state. If their spouse moves from one house to another within the home state, it doesn’t seem outrageous to let the DC-based spouse claim that address as their official residence for voting purposes, even if they haven’t visited the place yet.
JoyceH
@Burnspbesq: Don’t know how the speaker vote counts though I seem to recall it being those voting. But as an aside, saw on Twitter that McCarthy’s stuff has been moved to the Speaker’s suite. Would be lovely if It all had to be moved out again.
Carlo Graziani
@trollhattan: I’m going to go out on a limb and say that as far as US-Israel relations are concerned, this initiative is going to out-crater the proverbial lead balloon.
It’s will be interesting early test to see which way Bibi jumps: he either shuts Cohen down hard on this, so as not to start his government off on fecally-bad terms with the Biden administration, or he implicitly approves, in which case he may be signalling an alliance with US right-wing nutjobs, a willingness to interfere with US politics and re-establish Likud’s role as the Republican foreign-policy arm, and an unusually nonchalant attitude towards the curation the of the US-Israel relationship.
Nice of the Israelis to offer us this kind of read so soon.
karen marie
@Geminid: It’s interesting that it was Jeffries who gave the nominating speech in 2019. Was there talk around that time that it signified he was being groomed to succeed Pelosi?
Kay
@Chief Oshkosh:
Up until about 2000, when Republicans created the fake voter fraud crisis out of thin air, state election laws leaned toward the voter. They put access ahead of security so if was a close call the tie goes to the voter. Then Republicans changed all that, so now voters are all presumptive felons but they still enjoy some of the voter-friendly perks of the older laws.
Anonymous at Work
@Geminid: There’s a lot of Russian money in Israel, some of it clean, some very much not. Bibi is greedy and corrupt. His efforts to remain in power and thwart prosecution revealed fellow travelers.
The rest is easy, even if they help Iran build better suicide drones.
JaySinWA
@patrick II: No espionage doesn’t have to be with an enemy. There was a man imprisoned for several years for spying for Israel.
Kay
It amazes me that no one ever asks Republican electeds who are making up shit about voter fraud why the hundreds of election security laws and rules they have put in since 2000 didn’t work.
They made up the crisis but even if they hadn’t, it should have been remedied by now. They scream about voter fraud exactly as loudly and incoherently as they did 20 years ago.
WaterGirl
@Amir Khalid: :-)
WaterGirl
@mrmoshpotato: We can only hope that Russians are about to be expelled!
Ruckus
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
As the owner of 2 different businesses and as an worker for 60 yrs, 42 of which I worked for someone else, I can emphatically state that very few like working. The majority understand that to eat they have to earn money so they will work and work well, and if they hate where they work or what they do they will either do shit work or leave. And if someone is staying out of loyalty, you likely do not want that person working there. Some enjoy what they do, which makes working easier, but it’s still work. Some really enjoy a decent paycheck because it makes life easier, but it’s still work. And in my opinion you should get some enjoyment out of what you do for most of your working life but not everyone gets to do that, and even then, it’s still work. There is a reason we call it work, and not passing time.
karen marie
@Betty Cracker: I saw the photos. I don’t believe for a hot second that Meadows’ wife stayed there for one night.
Chetan Murthy
@Kay: “Those mudpeople ‘re still votin’ ain’t they? [chew chew chew *spit*]”
Geminid
@karen marie: Jeffries had just been elected Caucus Chaiman when he made that speech. He had only been in Congress for three terms at that point, and his peers and leadership must have seen something they liked.
Another Scott
@Burnspbesq: Votes cast. RollCall:
There doesn’t seem to be any way for Jeffries to win (it’s never brokered as an option in the news reports I see). And if Jeffries somehow did win, and the GQPers had their rules in place – it’s a separate vote but they’ve written the rules – (meaning they could demand a vote to throw him out any time 5 of them got together), why would he want the job?? He still wouldn’t have the majority.
I assume the way this will play out is:
1) Qevin is nominated.
2) Vote is held.
3) Qevin loses.
4) Discussions.
5) Qevin is re-nominated or some other GQPer is nominated.
6) Vote is held.
…
IOW, I don’t think it will be Qevin or Scalise vs a Democrat, unless the GQPers totally lose control over the process.
There’s almost never One Weird Trick.
We’ll see!
Cheers,
Scott.
MisterForkbeard
@Burnspbesq: It’s a minimum of 218 votes, not a plurality or whatever.
Basically, if the Rs deadlock at 210 for McCarthy and 12 for MTG/Gaetz/Racist Fuckwad, while Dems have 212 votes for Hakeem Jeffries then no is elected speaker until Rs give up/find a candidate they can live with…. or a few Rs vote for a Dem-nominated candidate.
Chetan Murthy
@Ruckus: Those “good factory jobs” were good for only one reason: they paid enough to raise a family and retire. Otherwise, they were endless hours filled with meaningless and repetitive drudgery. Erik Loomis over at LG&M had a post years ago about the Ford River Rouge plant ($10/day, 10k people lined up for the jobs) that explained in detail the drudgery of assembly-line work, and the difficulty factory-owners had trying to retain workers (turnover was enormous) b/c workers *hated* the work.
Until Ford came upon a silver bullet: (shocker, I know) Pay the workers enough money!
MisterForkbeard
@Carlo Graziani:
So basically what happened the last time Bibi was in office with a Dem president, yeah.
Chetan Murthy
@MisterForkbeard: My understanding is, it’s a majority of the votes of those voting for “names”. So members can vote “present” and those don’t count.
Anonymous at Work
@Another Scott: Current rules require leadership make the motion to vacate Chair. Kev-kev’s first act as Speaker will be to bring in a new set of rules. Brief window.
Mallard Filmore
@Geminid:
You do not need to be an expert linker. Simply copy the link text (e.g. copy this, a DW YouTube video about a volcano in Italy being dangerous—>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1hLY-QPZjI
<— copy that) and paste it to a blank line.
Modern browsers will recognize the text as a link and make it "active" for the reader.
Kay
@Chetan Murthy:
The Republican Bds of Elections employees here are normal people and they loathe the Trump fraudsters. I went to poll worker training and the Bd of Election employee told the pollworkers “do not give them my cell number if it’s about the machines being hooked to the internet”. I laughed. Ya know, alone.
MisterForkbeard
@Chetan Murthy: This is a good point. And it’s why Dems have said they’ll all be there and voting: Increases the pressure against McCarthy.
Geminid
@Anonymous at Work: Israel is not helping Iran build better suicide drones, but they are giving providing us with intelligence about them and advice on how to shoot them down knowing we will pass it on to Ukraine.
Iran does not need any help in this area anyway. They are a nation of 85 million people, with a decent industrial base and plenty of good engineers and capable fabricators. They have poured a lot of resources into weapons development production, and top military and political leaders are represented in the ownership of Iranian weapons companies.
Drones are a particular area of investment, as are short and medium range ballistics which are a greater threat. There were reports in October that Iran will now replenish Russias stocks of ballistic missiles, and there is heavy pressure from the U.S. and European countries to dissuade Iran. So far these missiles have not been reported to be in Russia, much less used.
Another Scott
@Anonymous at Work: Ah. You’re right.
That would be fun – to have their rules be voted down.
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
Baud
For Berty C, via reddit.
https://i.redd.it/2i0mhudf5n9a1.jpg
Geminid
@JaySinWA: That was Michael Pollard, who sold secrets to Israel during the Reagan administration. Pollard was imprisoned for something like twenty years before we sprang him at Israel’s request. He now lives in Israel.
Ruckus
@Steve in the ATL:
My point is that sure he’s a retired military officer but that means that unless it’s something he did while serving, it is not under UCMJ. It’s been a long time since I’ve served under the UCMJ but as far as I recall, it doesn’t apply to non military. And I also recall that it is a pretty complete set of laws about what military people who actually are under it’s jurisdiction and not actually the constitution and civilian law. Things could have changed in 5 decades but that’s the way it was when I was a US citizen serving. It can get a bit complicated though, because when I was in civilian clothing, in civilian settings, I could be arrested by civilian cops and tried in civilian court. The military could intervene thou, as I recall. I could be wrong, as I said it’s been 5 decades.
Another Scott
@Geminid:
Jonathan Pollard.
He did a huge amount of damage.
Grrr…,
Scott.
Mallard Filmore
@trollhattan:
Imagine that. The worker bees are not excited about working hard to make someone else rich.
“The output of these labor units is too low. Are they defective? Can we send them to the organ bank to be recycled and get some new ones?”
Carlo Graziani
@MisterForkbeard: This is true, but it’s a much riskier calculation for Bibi this time around, because the Republican party is a much weaker, unstable, unpredictable and unreliable organization than it was last time, and Russia itself is likely to be a much weaker state with less reach and power in the coming few years.
Still, maybe he likes risk, or maybe he reads it differently, or maybe he has some political commitments that outweigh rational national strategy choices. As I said, nice to see him cornered this early.
patrick II
@JaySinWA:
I think that is what I said. Espionage doesn’t require whomever you passed the documents to to be an enemy. Committing treason has been said here in comments does require an enemy as stated in a declaration of war.
I am getting nit picky. What I am saying, bottom line, is that Putin has been slipping between the cracks in our laws. The real world shifts around, and our laws have fallen behind.
WaterGirl
@Carlo Graziani: Let’s say Bibi does flip us off. Do you think Biden would play hardball with Israel because of Ukraine?
Chetan Murthy
@Ruckus: IIUC, no [but hey, I could be wrong] Retired generals remain under UCMJ: https://cdn.ymaws.com/www.roa.org/resource/resmgr/LawReviews/2006/0615-LR.pdf
“The solution for a retired officer concerned about violating Article 88 but feeling compelled to speak out would be to resign his or her commission and forfeit military retirement. Drawing one’s military compensation means you are agreeing to remain subject to the UCMJ. “
Geminid
@Mallard Filmore: Oh, I don’t intend to be an expert. My main problem is innattentiveness. That quality is one reason I am not a good cook.
But I’m one-for-one in linking so far this year!
Now my goal is to improve my skill at making spaghetti carbonara. Right now my recipe is:
Chief Oshkosh
@Kay: Thanks for the education. Seems pretty loosey-goosey…but probably for the best.
scav
@Geminid: Ahh, but can you make the smoke detector go off when you boil dry the spaghetti? Still, you’re half way there — congrats on achieving the initial carbon!
Steve in the ATL
@Another Scott: “steal secrets. Not too many. Give to Israel”.
Steve in the ATL
@Ruckus: I believe you are correct, though not my area of expertise
Ruckus
@Chetan Murthy:
I understand. My father started the first business I ended up owning, I started working there not long after. It was work I did for most of the 33 yrs that business existed and which I did for my last 9 working years. Machining metal. Making tooling, like that used in the automotive industry and machining metal parts. And in the end I owned it longer than dad did. I took a 4 yr break when I was in the military during Vietnam. Not exactly a vacation. Or equal pay. And you are exactly correct, it is work, people trade skills and effort for money. I know, I’ve signed a lot of paychecks over the decades, and I don’t mean the back of them.
MagdaInBlack
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Every time I am told that ( at least once a week ) I remind them that unemployment is the lowest its been in my lifetime, there are more jobs than people to fill them, people have choices now, and if a job is not being filled its because folks have found something better.
I am so tired of that bs.
Chetan Murthy
@Geminid: From time-to-time I get into a stir-fry mood. E.g. Thai eggplant & chicken stirfry. I have two Vornado fans, that I set up to pull in air from one window and push it out another window right next to the gas range. When I don’t start ’em up before I stir-fry, the smoke detector goes off reliably. With ’em running, no problemo.
geg6
@patrick II:
It’s definitely not treason. It’s sedition. From Merriam-Webster:
sedition: noun. se·di·tion si-ˈdi-shən. : incitement of resistance to or insurrection against lawful authority
That is the crime, IMHO. Of course, IANAL, but that seems pretty simple to me and seems to suit this entire horrible shitshow.
trnc
It’s not comforting that Smith lost an easier case, but maybe that’s not a reflection on him if it was assigned to him.
Achrachno
@trollhattan: “I don’t want to work — I’m too lazy, I’m too fat, I’m too stupid.’”
He shouldn’t talk about our esteemed ex-president like that, even if it’s true.
tobie
@WaterGirl: I hope Biden would play hardball and not just with Israel. There was a pretty disturbing article in the NYT today about India feeling its oats in foreign policy and refusing to cede to western pressure when it comes to Ukraine. It echoed everything I’ve heard from my husband’s family: the grievance, the feeling that in a country that’s 80% Hindu Hindus are in jeopardy, the adulation of Modi and Putin and Orban.
NotMax
@Geminid
Michael Pollard (middle initial J) was the actor. Bonnie and Clyde, et cetera, et cetera.
;)
patrick II
@geg6:
That sounds good.
geg6
@VFX Lurker:
Yep. Nobody hates Kissinger more than I do, but this is low on my list for criticism. I like Hillary a lot but I have criticisms of many things she’s done and said over the last 30 years, but calling a former SoS (who may have given her advice on other things that she valued) a friend is pretty minor in my book. I, personally, could never want to be that monster’s friend, but I have been friends or been acquainted with in friendly way with some pretty bad people in my life. So I sort of get where she’s coming from.
Geminid
@Another Scott: Thank you for the correction. One reason we may have held on to Jonathan Pollard so long was that some of the intelligence he stole made it to Russia. The U.S. Russia and Israel will not confirm this but I think it’s more than a rumor.
Ruckus
@Chetan Murthy:
I was an enlisted man, not a commissioned officer so that part of the UCMJ did not directly apply to me and as I stated it’s been just a few decades. Sure some lawyer might try to bring charges because I have said that a past president has shit for brains. I’m not holding my breath. And then again I might get a medal or commendation for that, all things considered, if I was still in the military.
Chetan Murthy
@Ruckus: Apparently the UCMJ doesn’t apply to retired enlisted men. I think the same is true of officers below flag rank.
trnc
@trollhattan:
Cant’ read the article, but I wonder which country he’s worried about since the unemployment rate is below 4% in the US.
Geminid
@Carlo Graziani: So far this is a matter of words and not deeds. There has not been any concrete change in policies so far.
This might be just a change in public posture. And if it’s coming from Netanyahu’s Foreign Minister it’s coming from Netanyahu and nobody, outside of or inside Israel including his own political allies, takes Benjamin Netanyahu at his word.
Betty Cracker
@Baud: LOL! Now he’s scrubbing it off like loser stink.
@karen marie: It does seem suspiciously downscale, but IIRC witnesses say the wife and at least one adult child were seen there while it was being rented by the Meadows. I think before he joined the Trump circus, Meadows was a hotshot real estate developer, so you’d think he’d have better options. Maybe their intent was to sell their DC and original NC places and flee to a country without an extradition treaty?
@trollhattan: I wonder if he’d change his tune if the U.S. redirected the billions in annual aid it has funneled to Israel for decades to Ukraine instead. I’m all for it at this point. It’s a better investment for our national security. Tell them we’ll consider opening the spigot again when they stop electing corrupt rightwing PMs who meddle in US politics.
Chetan Murthy
@trnc: Well, in his defense, the labor force participation rate has fallen since 2019. So he’s got a point. Let me get the numbers here … from 63% in 2019 to … 62% in 2023 [I’ll come in again]
ETA: try the veal, I’ll be here all week!
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Chetan Murthy:
I remember reading that the labor force participation rate has been gradually falling since the 1970s
geg6
@Betty Cracker:
Right there with ya.
ETa: re: Israel and that piece of garbage, Bibi.
zhena gogolia
Yeah, let’s just give all the Israel aid to Ukraine. Please.
Miss Bianca
@Princess: I would buy that. Someone compared that headshot of Jack Smith that’s been circulating to photos of General Sherman. I can see that. I call it “resting executioner face”, myself.
Gravenstone
@Baud: Not enough triple decker comb over.
prostratedragon
@Another Scott:
Although Israel and others tried to get him out for years, his release was automatic under law at the time because he had served 30 years of his life sentence with no further major violation. Link; see “Parole.”
Starfish
@Ruckus: Recall them, demote them to reduce their security in retirement. If they have time for treasonous nonsense, they have time to be getting a job to keep them occupied.
Carlo Graziani
@WaterGirl: It would really rather depend on the circumstances. At the moment this is just diplomacy-level signaling. And we don’t yet really know what the Netanyahu government will actually be like from the perspective of US policy. I think the administration will take a very dispassionate and utilitarian view of the Bibi, though. Few US government officials see compelling strategic utility in completely aligning the US with Israeli regional policy goals, and those goals can clearly conflict. If and when they do, I don’t think either a false sense of romance or domestic politics will prevent the administration in dealing from power, where necessary.
Biden is a pretty canny politician, and doesn’t pick fights that he’s not likely to win. So, for example, requesting a reduced amount for military assistance to Israel in the FY2023-2024 budget would be unlikely, since that would be a tough sell for a lot of Democrats in Congress, and would simply hand a winning political issue to Republicans.
However, conditioning or limiting direct US military assistance, or intelligence cooperation are possibilities. And note that there was a time when the US was willing to bring down the financial hammer on Israel, in order to rein in its misbehavior: in 1992, the GW Bush administration threatened to withhold loan guarantees if Israel did not restrain West Bank settlement, and succeeded in coercing Shamir into freezing those settlements. [In the context of the present thread, incidentally, it is noteworthy that Jonathan Pollard had been spying for Israel only a few years earlier, so claims that his espionage was “harmless” as he was giving secrets to a “friendly” power are obvious bullshit.]
Really, though, it’s case-by-case. Relations with Israel under Bibi are going to be kind of like relations with Turkey—transactional. Fortunately, we have a lot more power and influence over Israel than we do over Turkey.
Miss Bianca
@Delk:
Oy. LOL. That’s it, exactly!
Chetan Murthy
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): For definitions of “the 1970s” that include “starting in 2000”, a-yup: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CIVPART
It was rising until then, since the 60s. One says to oneself that the rise maybe had something to do with icky ladyparts.
Starfish
@Chetan Murthy: And you could get trained in the votech program in high school on butchery and learn how to be a proper butcher.
Now they are trying to shove people in as CNAs, and CNAs don’t get paid much. That job is not a path to anything.
lowtechcyclist
@VFX Lurker:
Look, I supported her against Bernie in 2016 despite that; I’m enough of a realist to know that Bernie would have been a much worse candidate.
But I still have a very big problem with people who regard freakin’ war criminals as friends. No, I’m not going to be a fan of such a person. What was she thinking, that his great knowledge of and experience with foreign policy made up for being a war criminal? She apparently found the latter less important. Yes, I’m going to judge someone on that basis.
No, I don’t think that erases the good things she’s accomplished. I don’t think she should burn in hell; I don’t think she should be shunned by all decent people. But I will never be a fan of hers. If my judging her to that rather modest extent bothers someone, that’s their problem, not mine.
tobie
@Betty Cracker: I don’t know who Israel thinks will support them in the future. I’m with my parents right now and neither wants to support Israel with Netanyahu and the rightwingers at the helm. They should be Bibi’s base: elderly Jews who came to the US as Holocaust refugees. If they’re not supporting Israel, who is?
Leslie
@Steve in the ATL: That’s Michael Pollan, but I still laughed.
Geminid
@Betty Cracker: They are very good customers for Lockheed though. Israel’s buying F-35s as fast as we can give them the money!
lowtechcyclist
@Another Scott:
I completely agree. There are a lot of people you wouldn’t dream of wanting to be a friend of, that you can learn from.
Geminid
@Chetan Murthy: When I cook it would be a problem if the smoke detector didn’t go off.
Starfish
Flynn was supposed to lead one of the groups marching on the capitol on January 6, but he had a change of heart and said it was too cold and bailed because he didn’t want to do too much treason.
Another Scott
@Leslie: @Steve in the ATL:
D’Oh! I knew that I had seen that construction somewhere, but my thinker was failing me.
rofl.
Very nicely done, Steve.
Cheers,
Scott.
WaterGirl
@trnc: No one has a perfect record. You learn from your successes and your failures.
edit: If you never lose a case, you’re placing playing it safe above the rule of law.
Just my opinion, obviously.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Chetan Murthy:
Maybe what I read was wrong
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I’m guessing when it comes to juries, trial lawyers have some version of Mo Udall’s (wasn’t it?) “The people have spoken. The bastards.
ETA: feels worth adding: Edwards was acquitted on one charge, the jury was deadlocked on five others.
Another Scott
@prostratedragon: Yup. He didn’t get released early (he got his entitled credit, that’s why it was 28.mumble years rather than 30).
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
hilts
@WaterGirl:
I think it would be more accurate to refer to her as Dope Hicks. What a pathetic excuse for a human being she is.
Ruckus
@Chetan Murthy:
A commissioned officer is a commissioned officer. Sure flag level officer’s shit doesn’t stink but the UCMJ doesn’t differentiate between O-1 and O-whatever
And I can tell you that an enlisted and an officer are treated a lot different. An enlisted can’t quit, and an officer can resign their commission. I know some that did exactly that.
Betty Cracker
@tobie: Good question. I’ll never forget the way Netanyahu worked with Republicans to undermine Obama. What a putz! Also, Israel’s anti-corruption laws must be as feeble as ours — they’re as slow to address Netanyahu’s corruption as the US is to catch up with Trump and crooks like Ken Paxton of TX. 🙄
Wyatt Salamanca
@Betty Cracker:
Trump is a malignant cancer and we need Jack Smith or a prosecutor in one of the other pending cases to serve as our national oncologist.
Geminid
@tobie: This is already an unpopular government within Israel. Despite Netanyahu’s 64-56 Knesset majority, the popular vote on November 1 was a virtual tie between Netanyahu’s bloc and the anti-Netanyahu coalition. But two anti-Netanyahu parties came in below the 3.25% threshold and won no Knesset seats.
To get his coalition partners in line Netanyahu gave the Haredi, or Ultra-Orthodox parties, ministries where they will antagonize just about everyone outside those parties.
Netanyahu gave the radical, racist National Religious bloc key ministries as well. One retired Israeli Defense Force chief warned that if this party’s principles are put into effect there will be civil war, and I do not think he was exaggerating.
lowtechcyclist
@Ruckus:
This. I have gotten a great deal of enjoyment and feelings of accomplishment from my current job over the past couple of decades, not to mention a comfortable paycheck.
But I still enjoy it on the scale of work, not on the scale of what I’d do with my time if money weren’t an issue. Right now I’m sitting around doing more or less nothing, and it beats working.
Every now and then there used to be a story about some government worker who’d offended a higher-up, and found himself assigned a basement office with no actual work to do. And I’d be envious.
Chetan Murthy
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): On a hunch, I looked for “labor force participation rate – men” and got this: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS11300001
It’s been going down pretty much continuously since 1950, from 87% to 68%.
Chetan Murthy
@Chetan Murthy: A cynical person might infer that the person who cites “male LFP” numbers when discussing “LFP” has a ….. particular political agenda they’re pushing.
artem1s
@Another Scott:
Thx. The context of the answer to the gotcha question matters. Not talking or listening to living SoS can be ruinous for the country. I have no quarrel with HRC stating that she wouldn’t ignore the experience of her predecessors the way Condi Rice did on August 8, 2021.
MagdaInBlack
@Chetan Murthy: I must be one of those “cynical people.”
Ruckus
@Wyatt Salamanca:
I think a better way would be to say SFB is the tumor from the cancer. We can and have removed him, but the disease that caused the cancer is still there. It has lost a bit of it’s growth potential, it has lost some of it’s volatility, but the cancer is still there. Most of the wealthy conservatives didn’t lose significant money – OK one did but that was out of his own ignorance and arrogance, which of course many of his fellow conservatives also have more than enough of. A tumor can regrow/reoccur, the disease is still there.
Chetan Murthy
@Chetan Murthy: Felt I should add, I’m [ETA: NOT] questioning your motive, Goku, but rather the person who wrote the stuff you read. These FRED statistics are the gold standard, the *source* for all writing on these subjects.
ETA: NOT, NOT questioning your motives.
Chetan Murthy
@MagdaInBlack: Come sit next to me (but masked and at least six feet away).
Chetan Murthy
@artem1s: And the simple fact is, you cannot expect to have effective professional relations with people if you call them war criminals in public. And you’d probably better call them friends, too.
Carlo Graziani
@Geminid:
Ah, well…
4-6 oz pancetta, but, if you can possibly obtain it, guanciale which is salt-cured bacon made from pork jowl, impossibly fat and flavorful, and a transformative ingredient. Cubed into 1/4″ or smaller pieces.
1-2 oz pecorino Romano, grated, possibly on the less-salty end of the spectrum, if you can find it. A milder pecorino also works, but it must be hard enough to admit grating.
1 tsp corn starch.
4 egg yolks, or 3 egg yolks + 1 whole egg (try it both ways, see which you prefer)
Fresh ground black pepper — I usually grind at least a teaspoon into a bowl in advance, so as not to have to do it at final assembly time.
1 lb spaghetti, or else bucatini work very well too, and are another classic.
Place the pancetta/guanciale in a pan, with a smear of oil for thermal contact, and turn the heat to medium. Cook until the fat renders. If it is guanciale, the fat will be a very impressive pool. Don’t discard it, that’s what’s makes the recipe. Just don’t tell your spouse. Don’t let the pancetta/guanciale burn.
Boil a gallon or so of water, and salt it abundantly (3 tablespoons of table salt).
Place the pecorino in a small saucepan. Dissolve the corn starch in a little cold water and add it to the saucepan. Add enough water to not-quite cover the cheese, while stirring. Turn on heat to low and cook, letting the cheese melt. You can leave it on if the burner is really low, or turn it off and reheat it a bit near final assembly.
When the water is boiling, and you’re sure that the cheese and the pancetta will be ready within the next 10 minutes or so, put the pasta in the water. Pasta should be stirred a bit, at least initially to see that it doesn’t stick together, but it’s usually pretty forgiving that way if you’re using enough water and if the burner is high enough that the water comes back to a boil quickly. Keep a measuring cup by the pot, because you want to reserve a cup of starchy pasta water for final assembly, to adjust the sauce consistency. Don’t trust the timing instructions on the package. Instead, after maybe 8 minutes or so, start tasting individual strands. Chalky core is too raw. Squishy soft is too done. Al dente literally means “responds to the tooth”, as in there’s a bite in the core. But it’s your spaghetti, figure out how you like it. When it’s almost ready BE SURE TO TAKE AND RESERVE A CUP OF PASTA WATER BEFORE YOU DRAIN THE PASTA (I have drawn upon blasphemous portions of the Italian language reserved for special occasions when I forgot to do this). Also, have a colander ready in the sink before you start tasting the strands, because when it’s ready you want to pick up the pot (got your oven mitts ready?) and drain it at once.
Now put the pasta back in the pot and take it back to the stove. Dump in the cheese sauce, the pepper, the pancetta/guanciale together with its little pond of melted fat, and the eggs, and a splash of reserved pasta water—not too much at first. Mix vigorously with a couple of forks, or with tongs, or some such tool. The sauce consistency should turn out creamy, and you can hit that target by adding pasta water a little at a time, being very careful not to overdo it, a sad condition that you would recognize from the transition to “soupy”.
Serve at once.
prostratedragon
@WaterGirl: Even Thurgood Marshall was “only” 29 for 32 before the SCOTUS. And he might not have been sorry to attempt the other 3.
Chetan Murthy
@Carlo Graziani: You left out the ground-up statins sprinkled on everything to taste!
Geminid
@Betty Cracker: Netanyahu’s trial started in April, 2021. It might finish this spring, after which there would be appeals. But Netanyahu’s allies are already working to derail the prosecution and will probably succeed.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Yes, but that figure includes everyone over 14 who’s not working, i.e., retirees, stay-at-home parents, students, prisoners, etc. It’s going up partly because the Boomers are retiring.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Miss Bianca: Mr DAW says he looks like a hit man
Geminid
@Carlo Graziani: Thank you for this inspirational recipe!
I can actually get sliced pork jowl at the supermarket in Stanardsville. In fact, that’s what I burned up on my last carbonara venture.
lowtechcyclist
@Geminid:
That’s the root of my problem here. I realize they’re in a rather dangerous part of the world, and have to make national security decisions based on the dangers present to them there.
BUT we’re supporting them to the tune of $3B/year, IIRC, and if they aren’t going to tip some of their choices a bit more our way, I don’t see why we should be doing that. Not to mention their rather blatant and way beyond undiplomatic taking of sides in our domestic politics. I don’t think they need to act like a U.S. client state for the money we give them, but c’mon, man!
Bill Arnold
@Carlo Graziani:
This aspect concerns me as well. Such arrogant and blatant support for the US Republican party would be full justification for hardball interference with Israeli national politics. (The US Federal government is not the only potential US player.) At least we are unlikely to see a GOP invite to Netanyahu to give a speech to the US House of Representatives, since their majority will be so fragile, or perhaps nonexistent. AIPAC, if it is smart, will be more cautious than it was in the past.The new Israeli government is dominated by theocratic nationalists, and many in the US Jewish communities are freaking out more than a bit even at the coalition deals made so for; Israeli missteps could easily make US support for Israel become much softer.
Another Scott
@Carlo Graziani: Balloon-Juice – is there anything it can’t do??!!
This is an amazing recipe. Thanks for sharing it.
Cheers,
Scott.
WaterGirl
@hilts: “Oh no, the insurrection is going to make it hard for me to get a job. And what about my reputation?”
Carlo Graziani
@Geminid: You’re welcome, and my condolences on what must have been a great disappointment. I hope you tried again, or will soon. Guanciale is amazing stuff. Try making Spaghetti all’ Amatriciana as well—it’s probably the Ur-recipe from that family tree, and there are recipes all over for it.
tobie
@Geminid: I have no doubt that Israel is deeply polarized. Seeing Meretz collapse in the election was painful. I only meant to say that Israeli hardliners may not realize how much they’ve alienated people in the US.
Give the aid to Ukraine.
Citizen Alan
@JPL: I think about home depot, and I remember Lenin’s famous statement about how Capitalists would sell communists the very ropes that would be used to hang them.
Ruckus
@Starfish:
One of the problems is that really, no one might want him in the military. I know of one fella, up for advancement who the pentagon did not want to advance because he was a major fucking asshole, and not all that good at his job. How do I know this? He was the destroyer flotilla commander for the ship I severed 2 yrs on, was up for promotion but was, as we in the enlisted ranks used to say a piece of shit. And the pentagon knew it. So they made him captain of a larger ship that was never likely going to war ever again. How do I know this? Because after I got out of the hospital and did a few weeks of temporary duty, I was assigned to that ship. And that asshole took out all his incompetent bullshit on us. That pentagon sent an order to send a copy of my records to the pentagon and I was told his reply was “Fuck them and him,” by the person that showed him the order. I walked off the ship at lunchtime and made a phone call to my congressional rep’s office. The next day at 5 am he got a call from the pentagon. An admiral. It lasted a bit. His replies were 3 words, according to the person that was there, yes, no and Sir. My records were sent that day and a week later I was honorably discharged. Hasn’t a day gone by since that I have been annoyed about that
And BTW my congressman was a member of the John Birch Society.
J R in WV
@JaySinWA:
Spying and treason are different crimes. In some cases the Venn diagram of various spying crimes and treason can overlap, and in other cases there is zero overlap.
Even when there is no overlap in the Venn diagram, an individual may be guilty of crimes in both categories, spying AND treason, but there is no requirement that this be so to indict and try someone in either or both categories.
I agree that treason should be an easier lift when, as now, we have enemies obviously attacking the US without declaring war upon the US.
Given the very short and specific [ look it up! * ] Constitutional definition of treason, laws specifying how one may be guilty of treason when a less definite state of war exists may pass with the ChristoFascist Supreme court, or may not. In which case we may need laws about Justices, treason, and undeclared warfare like the current status between Russia and the US.
*
Leslie
@Chetan Murthy: This. HRC is, like Biden, a politician who is skilled at building relationships and coalitions. Referring to Kissinger that way was probably the bare minimum that diplomacy required. It still leaves a bad taste in my mouth, but then, I don’t have a politician’s skill set.
LiminalOwl
@scav: Rotating tag?
Chetan Murthy
@Leslie: I remember when Hillary was a Senator, she actually made friends with GrOPer Senators. My skin crawls thinking of doing that, but she did it. Gotta do what you gotta do, to be effective.
Geminid
@tobie: Yes, I understood what you were saying and was not disputing it but adding to it. This will indeed be a very unpopoular government among Jewish Americans, I think.
One disgruntled MK from Netanyahu’s Likud party predicted that this government will fall before its allotted 4 1/2 years, because of its internal contradictions. I hope he is proven right. I thought the last government was very promising in its composition and leaders, and my hope is that the government after Netanyahu’s is organized along similar lines but with a more durable majority.
J R in WV
@Chetan Murthy:
Hilarious… RWNJs are so stupid, the rich ones even more so~!!~
UncleEbeneezer
@Leslie: Hillary (like Biden, and both Obamas, and RBG, and John Lewis) also believe that they can be friends with people despite having diametrically opposed politics. Considering their success in their fields, I’d suggest maybe that is a good thing that helped them get to where they are. I view Hillary being friends with Kissinger like her being friends with a co-worker. Her foreign policy goals/platform looked nothing like Kissinger’s and to me that’s a much better thing to judge her by than whether she’s friends with him.
Ruckus
@UncleEbeneezer:
There are friends and there are Friends and then there are good Friends and Great Friends.
I’ve been told that in politics it takes all kinds. The above is what I think is being said when a politician says some one is a friend. That is often selection #1. You aren’t going to have a relationship with them outside of work and will also never turn your back to them, at least not off camera. And then it goes up from there.
dirge
@patrick II: Committing treason has been said here in comments does require an enemy as stated in a declaration of war
I see this stated as a settled thing everywhere, but I don’t see where it comes from. I don’t think the constitution defines “enemy” at all.
From Wikipedia:
Seems to cover a lot more than the “declared war” conventional wisdom. Maybe not collusion with Russia, if their hostility was insufficiently open. Maybe not 1/6, if the assembly was insufficiently armed. But treason is not the dead letter everybody makes it out to be.
dirge
@Carlo Graziani:
😱
Everything else here looks totally legit, but I think it’s crucial to note that carbonara is essentially a custard. Eggs are the thickener. The legend is that the residual heat from the pasta should cook them, but my experience is you’ll need a little extra juice from the burner. If you keep everything moving for a minute or two, it’ll thicken up rather suddenly when you hit temp, then you need to get it out of the pan immediately. But the pasta & pasta water does provide a little thermal buffer, and helps stir the egg, so it’s easier to get creamy without curdling than something like a hollandaise.
Carlo Graziani
@dirge: I add the corn starch mostly to smooth out the cheese, as a fortifier for the starch that is already in the pasta water. It probably isn’t essential, but I haven’t observed that it makes much of a difference. In any event, I would not call this version (or for that matter, the Carbonara versions that I have eaten in Rome) “custards”. The key ingredients are not really the eggs, in my opinion. In fact, the egg is an addition to a more basic Roman recipe, the “Gricia”, which is basically a Carbonara with no egg, and a shit-ton more black pepper.
But versions proliferate the world over, and everyone likes their own…
DougL
@Betty Cracker: This is where I’m at regarding having any faith that the truly big fish (not less the grotesque whale Dopy Dick) will ever face real legal consequences. America doesn’t do that to truly powerful people. Especially powerful white men.
Paul in KY
@Chief Oshkosh: I think Hope could still do pron.