Rarely have I seen lawmakers flee the Capitol as quickly as the rush right after the House gaveled out tonight. pic.twitter.com/ZwStJZN7wP
— Matt Laslo (@MattLaslo) January 5, 2023
BREAKING: House Republicans just barely got enough votes to adjourn for the night. Supposedly Kevin wants to continue negotiations, but none of us should be fooled: he won’t have the votes tomorrow. He won’t have the votes next week. Kevin McCarthy will never have the votes.
— Victor Shi (@Victorshi2020) January 5, 2023
Fact: a majority of the people voting for Speaker of the House have now voted for Hakeem Jeffries six times.
— Charles P. Pierce (@CharlesPPierce) January 4, 2023
Kevin McCarthy: “I want to delay the vote for two years when cooler heads prevail and Democrats retake the House.”
— Captain Obvious (@TheFungi669) January 5, 2023
Alexandra Petri, at the Washington Post, remains a national treasure:
… Honestly, we are a little confused you are taking this so poorly. This is like electing a bunch of clowns to office and being disappointed when they put on a magnificent clown show for you. Here is precisely the clown show you ordered! You shouldn’t be ashamed. You should be applauding. It is like ordering a decorative salad made entirely from Legos and being mad that you can’t eat it. It is like voting for Lauren Boebert and then becoming upset that a legislature that contains her is not productively working for the American people.
I’m sorry, what did you think you were getting? Did you really say to yourself, when you voted for Matt Gaetz, “Here is a man who is going to build coalitions and pass sensible, bipartisan legislation that will improve our lives?” No! You said, “I’m voting for Gaetz!”
Do you realize that this party contains Marjorie Taylor Greene? Actually, in this particular speaker scenario, Greene is the middle-of-the-road institutionalist, a sentence that is as surprising to us as it is to you! When you are counting on Greene as one of the founding blocks of your coalition, the writing is on the wall.
We thought you were serious about just electing people to be squeaky wheels, and specifically squeaky wheels that keep setting off the House metal detector because they are armed with guns for no clear reason. We said to ourselves, “If they wanted to move legislative priorities through Congress in a functional way, they knew whom they ought to have voted for: not us! We came here to make pointless noise and pass nothing, and we are never going to be out of noise!”…
To those few of you who voted for a Republican in a swing district who made some wild claim about governing or enacting any piece of legislation, we say, “Whoops! Next time, look at the whole party you’re putting into power when you cast your vote! Because we have a QAnon caucus now!”
Our party is always yelling that Washington is a broken, dysfunctional mess. What is embarrassing is that you thought we meant we were going to govern to change that. What is embarrassing is that you thought we were going to govern at all.
Politico reporter:
Some Rs also secretly meeting/talking to Dems BUT zero sign yet that Dems are alarmed enough to bail out GOP
Any talk of power-sharing/etc are STILL not serious at this point
— Sarah Ferris (@sarahnferris) January 4, 2023
DO NOT OVERLOOK:
It’s remarkable how the national press has essentially ignored what to me seems a really big deal: the Trumpiest Republicans in Congress are defying Trump & he isn’t making them pay a price
— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) January 4, 2023
To become Speaker Kevin McCarthy needs the guy who nearly got him & the rest of Congress killed. If he doesn’t become Speaker McCarthy no longer needs the guy who nearly got him killed & could testify about January 6
Trump is aware of that. I bet that’s why he’s stuck w McCarthy
— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) January 4, 2023
I assume no such thing. His spine is irrelevant. He’s resisted testifying mostly bc of ambition. When his dream is dead he could save time/money by complying w subpoenas, & in the process screw the guy who nearly killed him
None of it’s about principlehttps://t.co/85GobPctPn
— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) January 4, 2023
And he’s discovered reporters will talk to him about this issue after the mar-a-lago press avail was pretty quiet. https://t.co/NpBdcP80Xx
— Maggie Haberman (@maggieNYT) January 4, 2023
MAGAt grifters smell blood:
Charlie Kirk calls on Donald Trump to broker a Speaker of the House deal: “Some people would say, well, Charlie, if he's not able to make the deal it will make him look bad. Well, look, at some point, you gotta take some risk.”https://t.co/LspoGHiPJx pic.twitter.com/MfGsmELOlw
— Jason Campbell (@JasonSCampbell) January 4, 2023
Dangerman
They chortled when Mancin and Sinema played games. Ain’t so funny now …
different-church-lady
[LET THEM FIGHT GIF]
Jim, Foolish Literalist
as somebody who thought trump would never get the nomination then never get the White House then would be hemmed in by Congress and a disgusted American people, I hate to make predictions, but he really seems like he’s fading away. When was the last time he did a rally?
bbleh
So, Republican Daddy is a dysfunctional schizophrenic. I’m glad he doesn’t have the nuclear codes anymore, but it’s good he’s got a hand on the national debt, because really, he’s the responsible one.
NorthLeft
For Mr. Kirk’s information, Deadbeat Donald is terrified about wading into this mess publicly and then getting ignored by the troublemakers. That will confirm to everyone that Trump is completely done and he will go back to his fucking golf clubs and shitty dining halls noisily complaining about how everyone is so unfair to him.
different-church-lady
@bbleh:
I bet he still has the ones they gave him.
bbleh
@different-church-lady: gawd it conjures pictures of a 6-y/o’s birthday party. “And here’s a whole Batman Lego set! And here’s the nuclear codes cuz yer such a BIG boy!”
(One trusts everyone knows they change the codes routinely.)
Ken
So no real change for him, then.
Poe Larity
I’m not a fan of animal abuse, but if the dems could sneak in a pair of robot roosters in and…
Eolirin
@different-church-lady: I can’t help but be reminded of the Russian troll farm Beat it with Jesus meme.
I’m not so sure he’s talking about them fighting!
ian
@NorthLeft:
Even though I think Trump is more easily defeated in 2024 than DeSantis, I would be ok with this particular outcome.
Chetan Murthy
“Van Drew” ? Would that be (Turncoat) Jeff Van Drew? I’m good with him getting the literal shit beaten out of him. Fucking traitor.
dmsilev
@different-church-lady: I’m not really seeing a downside here.
Amir Khalid
I’m reminded of what King Charles said when Liz Truss turned up at the Palace: “Dear oh dear.”
Leto
For some fucking reason, Stephanie Ruhle on The 11th Hour will have Boobert on the program. Why???
HumboldtBlue
@NorthLeft:
That just happened on Hannity. Boebert was on and Hannity was actually grilling her, called it like interviewing a Democrat and why did she lie to Trump about backing McCarthy.
Also, the rain has stopped for a bit, and now we’re getting thunder. NWS saying tomorrow morning could ve bad with rainfall and wind.
CaseyL
Wait, I thought McCarthy had made a deal with a bunch of PACs to give the anarchists, Putin agents, and grifters everything they wanted and a few things they hadn’t thought to ask for. I heard the deal was done and he’d be voted in as Speaker tomorrow.
Is that now a non-story? A didn’t-happen story? Or a story that is true but we’re ignoring because this is more fun?
RepubAnon
Kevin’s reign as Speaker of the House looks to beat Liz Truss’ record – in that he only occupied the Speaker’s (physical) office for a few days, until he was kicked out by the person that was actually elected to that post.
eclare
@Leto: Got me. I saw some clips of her on Hannity, all she does is talk over people, interrupt, and refuse to answer questions.
Hannity even asked her not to filibuster!
SiubhanDuinne
@Amir Khalid:
You left out the best part! When Liz Truss entered the room, King Charles said “Back again? Dear oh dear.”
:-)
Brachiator
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
It is interesting. And not so much a fall, as a slide into oblivion.
And Trump really depends on his rallies. He feeds off the anger of his supporters, and it is where he feels most free to reveal his most wicked thoughts and dreams of an authoritarian future.
He is still mostly propped up by the GOP leadership. But he cannot deliver votes anymore and so has lost much of his value.
sdhays
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: He seems much weaker than I expected him to be at this point. I think the Red Trickle took the wind out of his sails, and his sails were already riddled with holes.
We’re seeing Trumpism throw off the shackles of Trump himself, even using him against his wishes, and he’s powerless. Boobert calls for Trump tell McCarthy it’s over, and Trump won’t stand up for himself and his own endorsement. Because he’s scared. Weak. A loser.
If he came back on Twitter, I think that would do a lot to get his mojo back. Maybe not enough (because he seems a lot more of a spent force in general too), but the press would talk about him A LOT more and he would be in all of those politicians’ faces the way he used to be.
Hopefully, his investment in Truth Social prevents him from trying.
sdhays
@CaseyL: I thought it only bought him about 10 votes, which still leaves him 5 or 6 down. But I’m really not following it closely because whatever is claimed, we know that these people can’t count.
rmjohnston
I’m beginning to think that this ends with a majority of Congresscritters-elect (all the Democrats and most McCarthy backers) voting that the next vote (or after some specified number of further votes) for Speaker will be a plurality winner vote. Whoever wins, that’s a strong positive for the Democrats that encourages maintaining party unity, and it’s also the only way McCarthy and his supporters can gain real leverage over the Republican holdouts to get them to change their votes.
Mike in NC
McCarthy got into a screaming match with Fat Bastard on January 6, then only a few weeks later crawled on his belly to Mar-A-Lago to suck up to the fascist traitor. He really needs to go into the Witness Protection Program and never be heard from or seen again.
Carlo Graziani
So, as they splash about helplessly, dragging each other under, and begging the Democrats to throw them a life preserver…
What’s the best way to throw them an anchor instead?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@sdhays:
The O’Bros were talking about that a couple weeks ago, he thinks he can make bank by taking Truth Social public, and if he would have to be careful about tweeting or he’ll violate… something.
Alison Rose
I want them to do a secret ballot because I would laugh so fucking hard if McCarthy did even worse on it than in the voice votes.
Another Scott
LOLGOP on Mastodon:
Maybe we’ll see him enter the chamber wearing a dunce hat…
Given the specificity of the various rumors, I expect all this will be over before 6 PM on Friday, so everyone can make their flights home for the weekend.
We’ll see!
Cheers,
Scott.
gene108
@Chetan Murthy:
Yes it is turncoat Jeff van Drew (NJ-2). I hate him for how badly he shafted the Democrats in his district, who busted their butts to flip the seat only to have that asshole become a Republican.
There was so much work done in NJ to flip districts in 2018, and most of the D’s that did flip districts are still in Congress. All that work just for him to turn traitor.
gene108
@sdhays:
Twitter ain’t what it used to be. It’s reach isn’t the same.
different-church-lady
@Another Scott:
sdhays
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: LOL. That would be totally on-brand for Trump – focus on the money (that you’re delusional will ever appear) to the detriment of your political influence.
Frankensteinbeck
@sdhays:
It was never about Trump. It was always about white grievance. There is a big, big difference between never allowing The Libs to score a point against their champion and actually giving a shit about Trump himself. All those freakish posters of Trump as Rambo or whatever? How they seemed to have no basis in Trump himself? They didn’t. The MAGA saw their own face there, and Trump was just their representative. It was just their White Men Are Better fantasy.
Trump has been losing influence steadily since he lost office. Even when he was president, the Republicans in congress ignored Trump’s legislation requests. The only reason he has any influence left at all is because the media won’t. Stop. TALKING. About Trump. They want that 2016 clown show back so bad they’re choking for it, even the liberals.
EDIT – I’ll add this: Absolutely no one has ever been as good as making those white grievance assholes feel like they were seeing themselves up on that stage. All his petty, tacky, mean-spirited, open and relentless hate and corruption was pure validation.
sdhays
@gene108: Absolutely true, but its reach is still far more than Truth Social ever will be. Journalists are still on it and addicted to it. He can still influence the narrative with it.
On Truth Social, it’s no different than when he was putting up pathetic press releases on his website. No one cares.
CaseyL
@sdhays: That would be delish. But it would mean going against their main sponsors’ wishes… which, eh, it’s not like the money spigot will stop, no matter what they do.
kindness
As for Democrats making a deal with Republicans for the Speaker? I wouldn’t trust Republicans to keep any deal they make. Their word/bond is worth shit. Lying is their main go to.
Another Scott
@Frankensteinbeck: +1
WGBH.org (from January 2021):
Yet the people reading the quarterly revenue and profit numbers will demand that they keep growing and keep increasing “engagement” so …
Cheers,
Scott.
jonas
Basically he’d be agreeing to let the House be a complete shitshow dumpster fire for the next two years, get absolutely no business done, run the country into the ground and the high point will be a 50-slide PowerPoint presentation by Jim Comer featuring Hunter Biden’s dick pics.
McCarthy will only agree to this if he has come to terms with only being a one-term speaker.
mrmoshpotato
Run away! Run away!
NotMax
“We’re working hard to put together a deal with the Democrat party.”
– every MAGA sucking monstrosity on Capitol Hill.
//
...now I try to be amused
@Frankensteinbeck:
“I am your voice” is about the only true thing Trump ever said.
James E Powell
I thought that Boebert on MSNBC was more coherent than usual. Still crazy, but coherent. I haven’t seen a lot of her, but usually I am not even sure what she is trying to say because the beginning of the sentence doesn’t seem to go with the end.
She does not act like a person who only won an R+6 district by 500 votes in what was supposed to be a red wave midterm election.
mrmoshpotato
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Don’t care. Let me know when I can piss on Dump’s grave.
James E Powell
@Another Scott:
Max Schumacher lost the argument to Diana Christensen a long time ago. Arthur Jensen being the ultimate authority.
Frankensteinbeck
@NotMax:
No way. When Republicans smear shit on the walls, some of them think it’s the Democrats’ job to clean it up. Increasingly, some Republicans want the shit left on the wall and are convinced it would have turned to gold if Democrats hadn’t cleaned up. Either way, there is no respect there, no dealing, just contempt for the janitor.
mrmoshpotato
@Chetan Murthy: Who the fuck is Van Drew? (Will I regret asking?)
Ivan X
@gene108: Its brand has been stained, but do you have any evidence to back this up? It seems like there has not been an en masse desertion of the platform, in part because the alternatives can’t entirely replace it, and there’s also a critical mass factor.
piratedan
I guess what is so disappointing is that all of this time the media just kept playing along as if the GOP was just a normal political party with a clear set of policy differences between themselves and the Democrats.
and now, once again, they’re revealed to be what they actually are, petty, hateful people who can’t be trusted to run the government much less drop the lid on the toilet as a simple fucking courtesy… they’ve promised endless investigations of the Biden Administration with flimsy causes and have promised to investigate the investigators and
start issuing payback to those that testified (implied, if not openly threatening them) all the while ignoring the subpoenas that they were served with but fully expecting compliance for when THEY are in charge….
And now that the masks have been dropped, the media wants to still try and blame the Dems for being the only ones with agency in this mess, as if they somehow bear responsibility to do the “right thing” and give in to a conference whose own leader isn’t trusted by ANYBODY. No one in the media has gamed out the consequences if the Dems relent and allow KM to take charge….
we’re still going to get a legislative shitshow of fruitless hearings, grandstanding bills and impeachment proceedings because KM will allow it…. so should they “do the right thing”. How does this in anyway help the American people?
NotMax
@Frankensteinbeck
Check your snarkometer. Skimmed right over the marker of their purposeful use of the incorrect name for the party, didn’t ya?
:)
BruceFromOhio
Until this shitshow dumpster fire circus to name a Speaker and seat the House ends, I will cling to my fantasy of enough R’s crossing over and voting for Jeffries solely to shiv the fascists.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Interesting read from Politico:
NotMax
@BruceFromOhio
Just checked. Beelzebub not ordering down jackets, fur boots and mittens.
:)
ian
@mrmoshpotato: This New Jersey Globe article may provide some answers as to the who and why of Van Drew.
Rebel’s Dad
@Chetan Murthy: as a (new) New Jerseyan, I am rooting for injuries.
Rebel’s Dad
@HumboldtBlue: it’s been warm (60s) and humid here in the NYC area. So disgusting. I wish Betty Cracker and Adam would take this weather back to Florida where it belongs.
jonas
Which they were doing because, you know, Trump had torn up the agreement preventing them from doing so and told them to go fuck themselves.
And also
Wut? JFC, Milley must have felt like he was living in some kind of grotesque hellscape of a carnival house for four years. I wonder if he’ll eventually admit he fantasized about just taking Trump out himself on occasion. Just to save the republic even if it meant spending the rest of his life in prison.
danielx
@jonas:
So – pretty much what Republicans were planning for the next two years anyway. If McCarthy’s plan, presuming he has one, is following this agenda…
I’ve heard a saying that goes something like this: sir, my inferior understanding prevents my grasp of the unquestionable soundness of the mission.
jonas
@Rebel’s Dad: This seems to be the new winter weather pattern for NY and the NE over the past decade or so: a week or two of bitter cold polar vortex bringing us Manitoba’s winter, followed by a week or two of a strong southerly Gulf flow bringing us Louisiana’s winter. Between Christmas and New Years it went from -10 wind chills and one foot of snow where we are to 50-60 degrees, rain, and sodden mush as far as the eye can see. The jet stream is just wack these days. It’s almost as if the climate is, like, changing or something.
jonas
@danielx:
He’s been trying to retain a modicum of control over his caucus and the rule-making, but the Gang of 20 opposing him still don’t trust him to throw a wrench into things and own the libs 24/7 like they want. He’s promising a shitshow, but they want sparklers and unlimited supplies of C4 on top of that.
ArchTeryx
You know, it occurs to me that if McCarthy wins this extensive pissing match / tantrum, it will break the radicals’ hold on the Republican House Caucus. And since nobody else can plausibly get to 218, he has to win eventually, doesn’t he?
I’ll show myself in again. 🤣
Ivan X
@ArchTeryx: I don’t get it. Why don’t the establishmentarians just give up and vote for a bomb-thrower? They want to go home already, they’d rather have any R more than a D, and whatever, it’s what their base wants anyway. Who says the maximalist nutjobs can’t hold out longer?
ArchTeryx
@Ivan X: The maximalist nutjobs won’t get to 218, that’s why. Gym Jordan. their chosen figurehead, can barely scratch out 20. The nutjobs just want to throw screaming tantrums and poop on the House floor and then Tweet on Truth Social how much they’re owning us libs. If the establishmentarians wanted to vote for a bomb thrower, they wouldn’t be establishmentarians.
Owning who now?
Sister Golden Bear
About 100,000 homes and business without power in the SF Bay Area, mostly on the Peninsula and in the North Bay, due to downed trees and high winds. Murdercorp (i.e. PG&E) says it may be a day or more until it’s fully restored.
I’ve got a brief respite before the last big rain band on the night hits.
Probably will be more flooding problems as the water makes it way down from the foothills, and the Russian River in Sonoma County is expected to crest 35-40 feet above normal.
ArchTeryx
@Sister Golden Bear: Crap. Stay safe out there!
Sister Golden Bear
@ArchTeryx: Not leaving the house.
Evening traffic was remarkably light, so apparently a lot of people stayed home/went home early.
Rebel’s Dad
@jonas: Can we at least start celebrating Mardi Gras up here then? I’ll help with decorations!
Rebel’s Dad
@Sister Golden Bear: That’s absolutely crazy. Please stay safe!
Feathers
Yikes. The Guardian got ahold of a copy of Prince Harry’s memoir, Spare. Tells about William physically attacking him, leaving him with cuts and scrapes after Harry stood up for his wife during an argument. I guess he really is going to burn it all down. I have a hold at the library, so I’ll find out soon enough.
Both awful and sad.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/jan/04/prince-harry-william-physical-attack-2019-meghan-spare-book
Feathers
@jonas: Even more than sea rise, the Gulf Stream disappearing would completely screw up the northern hemisphere and end agricultural Europe.
How the oligarchs and plutocrats have just ignored this and imagined that they will somehow survive it all, with their children living in a better, depopulated world, is something that is true and that no one with an audience seems to be able to say out loud.
eclare
@Feathers: I saw that. I think William is going to have to address this.
Rebel’s Dad
@Feathers: another reason I’m glad my forebears left England and came to America. Trump is bad enough, imagine a whole family of narcissistic fools that you can’t get rid of because they’re unelected.
ArchTeryx
Last thought: This is one of those times I wish the House were a parliamentary institution. Then the Democrats, united behind Jeffries, could effectively form a minority government and tell the nutzoids to pound sand. Sadly, we don’t live in that world.
Dangerman
@Sister Golden Bear: 35 to 40 feet? Fuck!
There was a monster flood in the Redwoods. Eel River. Early 60’s. I don’t think it went over 30 but now I gotta look. That one took out a whole bunch of stuff though radically different terrain.
The Sacramento used to flood regularly until they put in the Shasta Dam. This would have fucked things up royally.
ETA: Eel crested 40 to 45 feet in 64.
SiubhanDuinne
@Feathers:
@eclare:
Have been reading about that. Whatever one thinks of monarchy as an institution, or the classy soap opera that has been the Windsors for the last ~55 years, there are quite a few damaged and hurting human beings in that family. The fact that they are royal is almost incidental to their pain, except that they wouldn’t be experiencing this particular pain if they weren’t royal. I’m fascinated by the ongoing saga but I’m also desperately sorry for all of them: Charles, Camilla, William and Catherine, Harry and Meghan — the lot. And I say this as someone who started following the British RF in 1947 and parlayed that into a fascination with British history writ large. But ultimately, it’s always a human drama.
Aussie Sheila
@Rebel’s Dad:
Get real. I am a small ‘r’ republican, but the Monarchy has no real power at all in constitutional monarchies. Parliament reigns supreme in such places, and even Senates have more democratic legitimacy than the US system.
Trump did more damage to the US and it’s people than a whole boatload of dysfunctional royal f….wits ever could.
Think of the Kardashians, but with older houses and more acreage!
The US threw off Monarchy much earlier and more decisively than constitutional monarchies did, and at the time was ‘best practice’ liberal reform, but I wouldn’t trade our democratic institutions, and democratic temperament, flawed as some are, for the US system or anything like the Presidential system of France or many South American systems for example.
divF
In other storm news, we just had a lightning flash less than a mile away followed by a loud thunderclap. This is pretty rare in the Berkeley hills and I’ve never seen one this close.
gene108
@ArchTeryx:
A minority government still needs a majority ruling coalition. Six Republicans would have to break from the rest of the Republican Party, form their own splinter group, and then sign on to supporting Jeffries and the Democratic agenda, with whatever concessions they extracted to limit the Democrats’ agenda for their support.
Parliamentary systems often fail to form a government, if no party has a majority and the party with the most seats fails to form a majority coalition with other minority parties.
Honestly, Americans would hate the party discipline parliamentary systems require. The party chooses candidates to stand for elections, so no primaries, for example. Each candidate for a party runs on the pretty much the same platform, so once someone is elected they’ll like vote in lockstep with the party establishment.
gene108
@Aussie Sheila:
I find it terrifying the people who want America to be first at everything and be thought of as the greatest best country ever do the most damage to the U.S.’s standing in the world.
If they get their way, they’ll turn the U.S. into a third rate power and then look for scapegoats to pin their failures on.
Ninedragonspot
@divF: I’m enjoying the spectacle from San Francisco. The lightning is very bright. It’s a rare treat.
HumboldtBlue
Just turned on the news, and they are live in Rome for the funeral of that fucking former Nazi pope.
It can’t be sung louder or more fervently, but fuck the fucking Catholic Church, if anyone has the Latin for that I’ll sing it while I cook.
Elizabelle
@HumboldtBlue: Please don’t call eversor down upon us.
Aussie Sheila
@gene108: You are wrong regarding the Australian Parliamentary system. Quite wrong.
Every Party has its own preselection(primary) contests. Some of them are very, very fierce. Sometimes a Party headquarters will intervene or interfere if a contest looks like a cluster f…k, but that is no different to what happens everywhere where a party is invested in particular political outcomes.
What we don’t have, is independent PACs, flying in to determine who a party’s nominee will be like you do. I believe in strong party systems, and I believe in party discipline. Better a political party making decisions on behalf of members than unaccountable big money PACs . A political party can be changed, dumped electorally or disbanded by its members.
If a Sinema tried her crap in Australia, particularly in the ALP she would be dumped quicker than you could blink. In fact she would ‘lose’ the whip, meaning she would be consigned to the backbenches and have absolutely no power whatsoever over the legislative agenda of the party.
More importantly, such an ideological lightweight would never have got preselection in the first place.
Strong parties invite strong contestation. Weak parties invite lightweights and opportunists.
It would appear the US legislative Branches are moving more towards a Parliamentary system when it comes to legislative action. Now the Democratic Party needs to learn about ideological sieves, better state and local organisation, and better ideological coherence.
Montanareddog
@Aussie Sheila:
I noticed in the latest Freedom House – Freedom Index by Country 2023 rankings, of the top 20, 10 are (for now*) constitutional monarchies (NZ, Denmark, Canada, Australia, Sweden, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, UK, Japan) ; of the 10 Republics, only the US has an executive presidential system.
Somebody pointed out many years ago that the defeated Axis states of Japan, Italy, Germany and Austria adopted parliamentary systems, despite the decisive role of the US in the Allied victory and the postwar settlement.
ETA: * for now, because Australia at least may go full republic eventually
Elizabelle
@HumboldtBlue: I couldn’t stand Ratzinger either. Someone whose death I took satisfaction in. May he and Scalia be roasting, for eternity.
Don’t watch broadcast/cable news at all, but it has surprised me what you all report back about how the news is covering his departure from this mortal coil.
mrmoshpotato
@HumboldtBlue:
Really late dinner or super early breakfast?
Ruckus
@NorthLeft:
he will go back to his fucking golf clubs and shitty dining halls noisily complaining about how everyone is so unfair to him.
It seems that all the mics have been unplugged and no one is listening. Or possibly anyone listening has figured out that manbaby’s diaper is full and no one cares.
HumboldtBlue
@mrmoshpotato:
Making some breakfast and lunch potatoes.
Martin
McCarthy is going to give these idiots everything, and they’ll reward him with a no confidence vote after the first real bill.
On the upside, one of the things they’re asking for is more regular order which would allow Democrats to more easily force bills to a floor vote. I don’t think this is going to work out the way that they think it will.
Aussie Sheila
@Montanareddog: Yes I sincerely hope Australia becomes a republic next year when our government has promised another referendum on the subject. However we had a referendum on the subject over 20 years ago which lost. At the time, the proposal was for a President elected by the Parliament, and conservatives sank the proposal by agitating against a President elected by politicians’.
I was tangentially involved in the campaign for a republic, and at the time I and many others supported a President elected by a simple majority of the people.
Now, I would not support that proposal again. I am not alone.
After Brexit and Trump, many people even quite left wing people are leery of plebiscitary democracy. I await to see what proposals are before us in the next year or so. After the last 20 years of politics in the so called ‘west’ I will never ever support a popularly elected President which could theoretically be waived over the authority of the Parliament. Such a system could clearly lead to disaster in a time of economic and social turmoil. I am not a fetishist when it comes to particular democratic arrangements, but I am old enough to have seen the pitfalls of plebiscitary and ‘divided government’ models.
I am content with the structures we have, albeit they need constant tending and improving.
I believe now that any system that proposes a popularly elected President will fail in any Australian referendum for precisely the reasons I have outlined. Usians just don’t understand how horrified and knowledgeable the last five years have made even the median voter in Australia about the US. Trump has done people like me a service in my country. For the US establishment, not so much.
David ⛄ 🎅The Establishment🎄 🦌 🕎 Koch
I wonder how Dump’s presidential library is coming along 🤔
Amir Khalid
@Aussie Sheila:
Is Australia considering a president with largely ceremonial duties, like those of Singapore and Germany? That’s one way to go if you don’t want an executive president chosen by politicians in Canberra.
Betty Cracker
@Aussie Sheila: Brexit may serve as a valid data point against plebiscitary democracy, but Trump isn’t. If U.S. presidents were elected via popular vote, we’d have been spared the George W. Bush and Trump presidencies.
Martin
@Sister Golden Bear: I think it’s supposed to crest at near 38′, not 40′ above normal from this storm. Problem is looks like two more storms – one this weekend, one middle of next week.
Climatologists have been studying the flood of 1862 which was a series of atmospheric rivers that turned the Sacramento Valley and much of the Central Valley into inland seas. This probably won’t develop into that kind of situation, but that scenario is possible. I think that was a full month of this basically nonstop.
HumboldtBlue
This fucking country.
sab
@Aussie Sheila: I think Americans tend to think that all parliamentary systems work in the same way, and that way is British.
Thanks for the imformation about Australia’s system.
Betty Cracker
@HumboldtBlue: Will the market for guns in the U.S. ever reach a saturation point? We’ve already got more guns than people. Maybe at some point the death merchants will simply run out of customers.
Aussie Sheila
@Amir Khalid: Yes. The minimalist proposal is that a President would simply have the role that the current Governor General has, which is largely ceremonial with no political power and none whatsoever regarding legislation of governing functions.
However our Constitution has a number of provisions reserved for the Monarch, or his/her representative. In 1975, when the GG sacked a duly elected government, the need for whole scale constitutional reform became apparent. That reform ‘ happened’ by way of Parliament determining that the government that had the confidence of the House was the Government.
But there are a number of hidden and very ugly provisions in our Constitution that until now have never mattered much, because of Parliamentary sovereignty . If we move to an elected/appointed President, these will need to be cleaned up. I am not confident these will be managed in the face of conservative fuckery.
We will see. However, I am now absolutely convinced of the importance of a Parliamentary system as a bulwark against lunges towards autocracy and authoritarian government. I have been shocked at the democratic regression of the last decade everywhere and I will never resile, while I am alive from a democratic Parliament, elected by full compulsory franchise, overseen by an independent electoral authority which ensures equal and fair electorates. Never ever. The US system is a travesty. So is the UK with their ‘first past the post’ system. Australians are no different as a people from anyone else. Our democracy and its structures however are superior in every respect . This gives ordinary people and their democratic and ‘fair go’ impulses a better than even chance of seeing a government that reflects their solidaristic impulses.
We are a happier and better governed polity as a result.
HumboldtBlue
@Betty Cracker:
Pfft, that’ll never happen. We always have other nations to supply the bodies.
Betty Cracker
@HumboldtBlue: Fair point. How’d your taters turn out?
Baud
@sab:
They don’t all work the same way, but parliamentary systems pretty much all have more party discipline built in than we do in the US system.
HumboldtBlue
@Betty Cracker:
They were good. Nothing that makes one shake a foodie head more than the fact that potatoes, onions and some salt and pepper are ridiculously good.
I only tested some. For quality an’ stuff.
Frankensteinbeck
@Betty Cracker:
People are born. People die. Guns wear out or are damaged. More importantly for sales, the 3% don’t buy guns to use, they buy them as fantasies. They will never stop buying more, because it’s irrelevant how many they already own. The next gun is the next shiny toy and brief relief in their constant fear and sense of inferiority.
Aussie Sheila
@Betty Cracker: Yes. You are right. A popularly elected President would have spared you and the world two disasters. But your Constitution does not bend towards democracy. It fetishises process over democratic outcomes. It is a travesty in the C21st. I know there is no hope of changing it, but the behaviour or small ‘d’ democrats and the Democratic Party can change. The source for change lies in State and Local Democratic parties imo.
Relying on big exciting national wins like Presidential elections has been a big, big mistake for small ‘d’ democrats.
All politics is local, annoying as that is. Change should begin in States where the Dems have a chance, and where the State is bug fuck conservative, change can still happen at a local level. Build an ideological and organisational apparatus to make real change. We had a State government here like Mississippi, which was Queensland in the 60s and 70s. People worked like mad to change it, and they did, even over a terrible gerrymander.
Stuff can happen.
Betty Cracker
Scrolling through Apple TV undercards during bouts of insomnia this week, I came across several old M. Night Shymalan movies, including one I’d never heard of called “The Happening.” Dear God, it was awful! The dialogue was so terrible I had to turn it off because the vicarious embarrassment was too excruciating.
Shymalan is frustrating because he has Hitchcockian greatness in him but squanders it more often than not. He can create characters and situations that are so compelling I’m willing to ignore gaping plot holes to see how they play out. And then he goes and makes a giant turkey like that.
Viva BrisVegas
@Aussie Sheila:
We are since May 2022. For the 9 years prior we had a godawful government which was in its own way as feckless and corrupt as the UK or the US. Robodebt anyone?
I’d still like to know what happened to that half billion of GBR money that disappeared into the pockets of Liberal Party mates.
Baud
@Aussie Sheila:
We have the unfortunate situation here where progressive reformers have tended to look national rather than state and local. That made some sense during FDR to Reagan, but not anymore. I think that is slowly changing, however. There is greater emphasis on subnational politics.
Betty Cracker
@Aussie Sheila: I agree state and local efforts are the path to change. I’ve been thinking about that a lot lately because of the absolutely rancid politics in my state and local area.
Aussie Sheila
@Viva BrisVegas: Yes that is true. But once people decided they had had enough it changed. Decisively. And once a government was elected with a majority, it could legislate. Without Sinemas and Manchins prancing across the stage to stymie a legislative agenda.
Every polity goes through conservative v progressive waves. The point is, when the electorate changes its mind, is the machinery of government responsive? That is the travesty of divided government a la the much vaunted ‘Madisonian’ democracy that just barely survived a coup d’état. Such a thing would be unheard of in Australia, and more importantly, impossible.
Gvg
@Dangerman: apparently they aren’t now, not even Simena the recent Independent. Interesting.
Layer8Problem
@Betty Cracker: ” . . . old M. Night Shymalan movies, including one I’d never heard of called “The Happening.” Dear God, it was awful!”
Obviously The Supremes’ version still rules. As it should.
Betty Cracker
@Layer8Problem: Had to look that up because I’d forgotten that song existed (and I am not sure I ever knew the name of it), but it’s a terrific earworm to start the day — thanks!
Gvg
@Aussie Sheila: Excuse me, but don’t Australians know Trump was not popularly elected but won by an archaic system left over from when we were actually separate states merging together into one country and still jealous of local power? It hasn’t been changed because those who have power always don’t want to lose it and it has never seemed quite important when times were good (most of the time). When elections aren’t close enough it hasn’t mattered.
He lost the popular vote both times. Bush did also the first time.
Layer8Problem
@Betty Cracker:
Then my work here is done. 😁
You’re welcome! And so to bed, or at least another vain stab at overcoming my insomnia.
Betty Cracker
Unfortunately our national mythos will probably prevent constitutional reform forever. It’s not solely conservatives who think Jesus personally handed the document to the founders. So, we’re stuck in an archaic framework that gives cranks and yahoos outsized power. Even things that are theoretically subject to alteration, like the number of states and SCOTUS justices, are calcified.
Aussie Sheila
@Gvg: Yes. We know how that happened. We all know there is no such thing as the popularly elected President. People outside the US know a lot more about your system than you will ever know or care about other democratic systems. Fair enough. You could blow us all away in an instant if you wanted to.
However we don’t have the luxury of not knowing how your system works. Our very existence relies on knowing how and where the hidden dynamite lies in a polity that can’t ever seem to control itself, but is always keen on controlling others.
I know you guys hate being called ‘imperial’ but that is exactly how you appear outside. Some people like it, some don’t object, and other have spent a lifetime fighting it. Whichever way, you need to understand that people outside your polity know a lot more about how your system works than most of your own electorate.
Gvg
@Aussie Sheila: you are probably wrong. Wait 50 years. America used to say that confidently for many decades. People are people. No government structure can completely change that. The people themselves matter. When enough of them become ignorant of history, cause and effect, of how to think, bored, frustrated, well off enough but thinking themselves deprived….look out.
Climate change may cause enough fear to screw up many countries worth of peoples thinking in the decades to come. Lots of chances for screwed up governments chosen by people, including Australia.
Nelle
@Aussie Sheila: I am grateful that you are writing here.
I found it valuable to live away from the States and look back across an ocean at it. I also appreciated having a president who had that experience (Obama). I’m back in the States now where I have to purposefully search for news without the “US is the center of the world” bias.
Betty Cracker
@Aussie Sheila: & @Nelle: I hope this analogy isn’t offensive, but it seems like other countries have to spend time thinking about what’s happening in the U.S. in sort of in the same way people of color in the U.S. have to understand white people. It can be a matter of survival.
lowtechcyclist
@Aussie Sheila:
Kinda like how Black people here pay a hell of a lot more attention to White people than the reverse. In both cases, it’s a matter of safety and survival.
ETA: Beaten to it by Betty. Great minds think alike, but some are quicker on the uptake than others. ;-)
MagdaInBlack
@Betty Cracker: I was kind of thinking the same, as was lowtechcyclist, I see.
Also too, thanks for the morning music 😊
Aussie Sheila
@Gvg: Sorry, but you are very mistaken. No Australian government, none, could do to the world what the US has, and could do still. Not because Australians are somehow morally ‘superior’, but because we are middling power, with a very high standard of living, but with the population of say a Florida, with a landmass the size of the US.
We don’t have the budget for an imperial military that spans the world. Thank heavens. We also don’t have the worlds reserve currency, that goes with a military that can outspend the next seven countries in dollar spends combined. We are reliant on assistance in a military emergency, which is why every conservative government of my lifetime has followed every US military catastrophe to the nth degree.
However people here are waking up to the fact that an adventurous US government could lead us into a war with China. No one, but no one in this country wants such a thing. A US electorate whipped up very easily by anti Chinese fervour could involve us in a war that could eff us in an instant. I am not worried particularly by the Biden administration in that regard. They are sane, and properly focussed on domestic matters apart, very properly, from Ukraine.
But in a decade hence, with a Republican President and Congress, god help us all if someone decided that the US had to show proper ‘deterrence’ against some real or perceived provocation by China.
I know very well that a sizeable proportion of the Democratic Party electorate would support military adventurism in that instance. I am old enough to remember the Vietnam war, numerous smaller military adventurisms as well as Iraq Wars 1&2.
No one in Australia is under any illusion about what would happen if the US decided to go all in against China. Our internal politics mitigate against anti Chinese adventurism, for the time being. But we might well have a conservative government again in a decade, and if the US goes bug fuck crazy again, we are well and truly effed.
RevRick
As was pointed out on Lawrence O’Donnell last night, because McCarthy has made so many concessions to “the twenty “ that render the Speaker impotent, there’s no way any plausible GOP substitute could walk them back. They have created a permanent hostage situation for themselves.
The only solution, it seems to me, is for twenty of McCarthy’s least insane supporters to simply not show up for the vote. And to pledge to do likewise when matters like the debt ceiling and government funding come up.
But as the old adage goes, “If wishes were horses, even beggars could ride.”
lowtechcyclist
@Baud:
The funny thing is, a fairly recent progressive reformer, Howard Dean, was doing a pretty good job back in the aughts of building up the party at the state level with his 50-state strategy. We’re still suffering the effects of Rahm undoing what Dean was accomplishing.
Baud
@lowtechcyclist:
Rahm was never in charge of the DNC. Tim Kaine followed Howard Dean.
Nelle
@Betty Cracker: Not offensive at all. In a related, but different way, I feel I have to keep track of the bizarre R’s, for their potential to do damage, though I often do it through squinted eyes. I hate to waste my diminishing number of brain cells on them, but just like a child with an alcoholic, abusive parent has to read the parent’s state of bring, we have to be watching out for the MAGAs.
Betty Cracker
@Nelle: Also a good analogy — thanks!
An anecdote that is sort of related: several years ago, our kiddo brought a college chum, a young woman from Guatemala, over for Thanksgiving dinner. Kiddo later reported that on the way home, the friend said she enjoyed the occasion and that it gave her “valuable insights into white culture.” I wasn’t quite sure what to make of that, LOL!
lowtechcyclist
@Baud: Who pushed Dean out?
Baud
@lowtechcyclist:
No idea. Most DNC chairs seem to have the same tenure as Dean did.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_National_Committee
Aussie Sheila
@Baud: I remember Howard Dean and his proposals. I also remember that I was very keen on them, especially because at the time we had been dragged into Iraq War2 by the Bush crime family admin. I knew at the time that there was a large number of usaians against the war, but I also knew that under your system a simple majority could not elect a progressive government.
I well remember the Clinton admin, which I didn’t think much of, and the Obama administration which many of us here had high hopes of.
These hopes were quickly dashed. Obama was and still is a highly talented orator and a very intelligent and decent human being. However the Party he led was simply not up to the task. He lacked Biden’s obvious political skills, partly because he didn’t have the long years in the Senate that Biden has had. Biden’s political skills ‘shows’, every day and in every way.
However I don’t blame Obama in the way a lot of lefties in the US do. I blame a moribund Party apparatus, and a ‘West Wing’ type of politics aesthetic, among bien pensant US liberals and normie democrats. The behaviour of Senate Dems during the first two years of that administration was an absolute disgrace.
I am hoping that the last 6 years of political catastrophe in the US will change democratic priorities in the US as well as the behaviour of the Democratic Party apparatus. The whole world depends on the US adhering to some kind of democratic norm. Otherwise economic and political elites elsewhere will try and ape your unfortunate experience. I am not worried about my country in the immediate sense, but over time if your democratic regression is not reversed, everyone will be negatively effected.
I do not intend to go down with a bunch of bug fuck crazies curated by US oligarchs and encouraged by the middle brow politics of US legacy media and its enablers.
Baud
@Aussie Sheila:
I don’t really like Obama/Biden comparisons because, as you note, the party was in a different place then and now, as was the electorate.
WaterGirl
This is so good.
Aussie Sheila
@Baud: My point is that unless your Party ‘shapes’ the electorate it doesn’t much matter what people in Democratic cities and states think and vote. You simply do not have a democratic system where the majority rules, at either federal or most State levels. You just don’t .
Your susyem loves litigation, but is less inclined to necessary legislation, by design, since your arrangements mitigate against simple democratic majorities, and prefers complex mind bending process arguments above all else.
Given Constitutional change would be both undesirable to attempt in the circumstances, and practically impossible in any case, the only avenue for reform is the behaviour of small ‘d’ democrats, and above all the only democratic Party in your country, which is the Democratic Party. Small but determined minorities can bring about change in even the worst circumstances. Ask Black Americans.
Now the white majority has to do their bit to utterly reform your electoral system, not just for your sake, but for everyone’s.
AM in NC
@Feathers: Yep, that’s the ballgame for Europe and the US East Coast as well. And it is already wavering.
But the vampire rich will fly their planes to wherever temperate weather and water supplies still exist. Whereupon I I hope they are seized by the local populace and forced to labor in unspeakable conditions for the rest of their selfish, sociopathic lives.
Geminid
@Aussie Sheila: Not sure what you mean by the “white majority” doing its part. The Democratic Party has the means to change things, but it is a multi-racial coalition. Whiteiberals and moderates may be the party’s largest component, but a majority of white people still vote Republican and probably will unless and until that party’s radicalism repels moderate-conservative white voters ( a process that to some extent is happening now).
Aussie Sheila
@Geminid: African Americans are doing more than their bit to conserve democracy in the US. Their lives and well being depend literally on a semblance of a multi racial democracy, and they do more than their share in trying to preserve US democracy.
White Americans need to pick up their game. I know the average white voter is no screaming radical, but democratic activists can do a lot to shape electorates as well as electoral understanding.
I liked Howard Deans approach to a 50 State electoral strategy, because up till then I had no idea how moribund the State Party system was. It appears to be designed to ‘allow’ the two parties to divvie up states and scrap over a few electorates.
$100 million dollars invested in selected states between elections, instead of the actual election cycle would pay long term dividends much more than hundreds of millions sunk in long shot bids for no hopers in states and districts that have not been politically organised otherwise than for presidential election cycles.
My point is that a strategic approach to long term organising, backed by big dollars, would pay better electoral dividends than spraying big dollars at electoral ‘gardens’ that haven’t been organised since LBJ strode the stage.
Another Scott
@Aussie Sheila: Thanks for your comments in this thread. I think that you underestimate the work being done, and the cost of politics in the US. $100M sounds like a lot of money, but even over just a few states, it really isn’t. Something like $500M was raised and spent just on the Democratic side in the recent (Ossoff and Warnock) Georgia Senate elections. That isn’t to say that raising $100M isn’t hard or that it wouldn’t make a difference – enough resources is important.
People are in the trenches now doing the work and raising and spending the money. But politics is slow and difficult, especially when the press has an interest in getting people riled up and both-sidesing everything…
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
Chief Oshkosh
@NotMax:
If I were the Democrats, I’d say “OK, we start with, every time you refer to us, it’s “The Democratic Party”. Every time you or one of your members use “Democrat” improperly, when “Democratic” is correct, you lose the deal.
That’s just for starters.
The GQP coalition won’t make it past noon of any given day based on that one starter prerequisite.
Chris T.
@Dangerman:
The Eel River runs through what they call the “blue goo”, which doesn’t stand up to fast-moving water.
The Russian River runs through typical Northern Calif expansive clay, although in that general area there are various bits of volcanic stuff. The clay itself isn’t all that solid either but doesn’t dissolve the way the blue goo does.
Chris T.
@divF: Yeah, lightning strikes always make the next night’s TV news, especially if someone captures video. Whereas where I grew up (east coast) it’s almost news if there aren’t lightning strikes from each thunderstorm. 😀