If you missed Acyn’s clips of Hannity going after Boebert last night, you probably didn’t miss much except the clear impression that the win in all this for her and her fellow drooling morons is McCarthy’s scalp. At one point she says something to the effect that the goal of the nutty 20 is that KevMac will never be Speaker.
If that is really their goal, then McCarthy can’t do anything to placate them. Still, the latest concession from Kev is an offer to let one member of his caucus call a vote on his speakership at any time for any reason. At this point, anything that will get him to “Speaker” is enough for him. This puts the Republicans in a tough spot, and, reflexively, this means that there are some Democrats who think that means we need to save them.
I posted one example yesterday, from Marcy Kaptur. Today’s example is Robert Reich, writing in the Guardian:
Does this mean the rest of us have to sit back and allow a tiny minority of extreme rightwing Maga House Republicans controlled by Donald Trump to hijack congressional Republicans, who in turn will hijack the entire House, and thereby hijack much of Congress? [ed note: Don’t threaten me with a good time.]
No. There’s an alternative, and House Democrats and the few remaining “moderate” Republicans should take it: come together to make someone like Michigan’s moderate Republican Fred Upton or Ohio’s David Joyce the speaker of the House.
Reich at least thinks that Democrats should get something for the compromise — equal seating on committees. If dreams came true, oh, wouldn’t that be nice. Still, it’s interesting to examine Reich’s case for Joyce being a “moderate”:
Joyce is hardly a progressive. During Trump’s presidency, he voted in line with Trump’s stated position 91.8% of the time. And he voted against impeaching Trump for his role in the January 6 insurrection.
But Joyce is not a Maga Republican. He refused to sign the Texas amicus brief that tried to overturn the results of the presidential election. He was also one of the few Republican House members who did not object to the counting of electoral college votes on January 6, 2021.
Could the bar be any lower? This is like saying that someone is a good human because they have a resting pulse of 70 and 20 respirations per minute.
Thank the gods old and new that, unlike Reich, Republicans understand that any negotiation and deal cut with Democrats is poison for Republicans. The bare fact that most Republicans have a deep and abiding hatred for Democrats is something that still can’t be spoken in the polite pages of even supposedly liberal outlets like the Guardian. So, we get pieces like Reich’s rather than ones that examine why Republicans are willing participants in a system where barely literate grifters like Boebert, and sleazy sugar daddies like Gaetz, can hold the rest of them as hostages.
Open Thread: Another Day, Another Vote
mvr
This is true, but it is important I think to add that it is poison for each individual Republican, but as a group they’d likely be better off since they will look less crazy in the next election cycle and any crap that happens in the House in the next two years will likely be spun with “both sides”. This is why for the Democrats and for the country it is best if the Republicans clearly own the chaos.
Baud
To be fair, the Guardian has a deep and abiding hatred of Democrats too.
Old School
It would be the Republicans’ responsibility to ask the Democrats to help. Not the other way around.
p.a.
When your enemy is drowning, throw them an anchor.
Miss Bianca
I’ve become less and less impressed with Robert Reich’s “hot” takes, personally. Yet another lefty who seems to think only “establishment” Democrats have agency.
As for Kaptur, I’m willing to cut her some slack. She of ALL House members must know how impossible what she’s suggesting would actually be. And yet, under the “only Democrats have agency” rule that the MSM and others espouse, she’ll get some cred from some of these idiots for trotting out the “See, we’re the reasonable ones! Bipartisan!” line.
oatler
Chuck Todd begs to differ.
waspuppet
That last is important. Any horse race reporter, even if they refuse to soil their hands by looking at such plebeian concerns as the results of policies, should be all over the question “Greene and Boebert are entering their second terms in the House. How is it that they’re basically running the place?”
Pure horse race, insider story. But no one touches it. Illuminating.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I suspect Kaptur was sending up a semi-trollish (in a good way) trial balloon for a Dem messaging strategy. She’s a forty year incumbent (longest serving woman in the House ever), big labor supporter (Bernie ’16 endorser) and political junkie that I am I don’t know that I ever saw her on television before yesterday. I don’t think she was going rogue.
Reich had some kind of emotional breakdown over his guilt about serving in the Clinton administration. He should, at best, be taken with a large grain of salt, like your cousin who’s been “having a hard time” as long as you can remember
Michael Bersin
@Baud:
This is true.
Leto
Scout211 posted this in David’s thread below:
The fact that talking heads continue to not recognize reality… it’s not our place to save them. They jumped ship decades ago and this is where they’ve ended up. They’re supposed to be a “responsible” governing party, and the fact they continued to let the most batshit insane people into their party (actively encouraging it) is something they need to solve. Idk how they’re going to fix their shit, but they need to figure it out. In the meantime, the responsible adults are here and want to move this country forward.
Matt McIrvin
I did not expect this from Reich–he’s always seemed to be a “Democrats are too moderate” type in recent years.
Baud
@Matt McIrvin:
Maybe he’s actually more of a “Dems are always doing it wrong” type.
bbleh
Oh everyone has their price. I suppose there is something some Republican could offer enough Dems that they would flip. But I sure wouldn’t trust them to keep any promises about things to happen later.
Sister Golden Bear
Greetings from soggy NorCal.
The good news is the storm is moving faster than expected, so there’s less rainfall. I sandbagged the garage, but thankfully the water never got high enough that they were needed.
The bad news is there were some extremely high winds last so lots of downed trees and downed power line. Fortunately, I never lost power, although some large areas near me did. Still about 26,000 homes without power along the San Mateo Coast, south of Half Moon Bay, as well as other areas around the Bay.
One last storm band today and then we dry out a bit on Friday. Then it’s 10 days of more storms.
matt
They should offer their lunch money to McCarthy.
Joe Falco
Is there anyone left on the R side that’s worth shaming by the
freebought-and-paid-for press? Any “moderate” House Republican that can be brought on any non-Fox program to be roundly told by all involved that the onus is on them and any other House R from a purple district to do what’s right for this country, leave the Gaslighting Old Pigs and join the Democrats to vote for Jeffries as Speaker?Obviously not, but it’s not said enough that members of the so-called Party of Personal Responsibility should take some and end this charade.
Suzanne
This is really the heart of the issue, right? These people are absolutely thrilled to destroy the government and the country to own a lib. Even just one! Every time that we discuss their motivation as something else, we’re downplaying the danger.
Kent
This whole thing is so farcical.
The GOP House has already told us what their agenda is for 2023. Basically full time Hunter Biden, prosecute Fauci, shut down the government, along with a dollop of racism (anti-CRT) and bigotry (anti-LGBT).
Why on earth would any Democrat want to make it easier for them to get started with all of that? If they really wanted some sort of binding bipartisan power sharing agreement such as equal representation on all committees then fine. But that will turn off the crazy so they won’t do that in a million years. They don’t even have any other agenda
If we stay without a speaker for the next 6 months I’m fine with that. Just skip the speaker completely in the line of succession. Who want’s McCarthy as 2nd in line for the presidency anyway?
Kathleen
@Baud: So does Robert Reich
Kent
and offer something significant in return.
Martin
First vote for Trump as speaker.
IT’S HAPPENING!
Frankensteinbeck
@Kent:
And the whole Republican Party agrees on that agenda. There is no policy disagreement between the rebels and the supposed moderates.
Kent
The one good thing I can see coming out of this is that the crazy faction as represented by Gaetz and Boebert are burning so many bridges with this public stunt that maybe *maybe*? the rest of the GOP will be sick of them and less willing to let them hold everything else hostage like the budget.
One can only hope.
Martin
@Sister Golden Bear: Good to hear. My son is down in Scotts Valley and reports that things are unpleasant but not dangerous/damaging.
Let’s see what the next week and a half brings. Really mixed feelings on this – we need the rain really badly. Hopefully it comes, just not too quickly.
Frankensteinbeck
@Martin:
While I think the odds of Trump as speaker are remote, it would be hilarious because Trump doesn’t want the job. You can’t sit around all morning watching FOX and telling other people to do the work when you’re Speaker. You have to actually go out there and preside. He wouldn’t do it.
Capri
If one comes at if from the perspective that Bobert and her ilk should have less power; then doing anything that makes the irrelevant and less influential is good and this makes sense.
The best strategy is for Dems to say they are happy to listen to anything the GOP proposes, then point out that not a single “moderate” GOP is willing to work with them – more in sadness than in anger.
C Stars
@Sister Golden Bear: I’m glad you got through it. It’s currently raining really hard here in the East Bay! But yes, impacts in my immediate area last night were not as bad as they could have been.
C Stars
@Kent: Yeah, I don’t get the feeling that they are making many friends. And it may play well in their districts, but I feel like the general takeaway for anyone who’s not mad Trumpy is that the GOP can’t govern.
Martin
@Kent: The only thing Gaetz needs from Republicans to hold the budget hostage is for Republicans to not work with Democrats. He and 4 others can hold everyone hostage only so long as the other Republicans insist on doing exactly the same thing.
Old School
@Martin:
Posted one thread below (H/T Alison Rose):
geg6
@oatler:
As does Katie Tur. And someone I heard on the CBS Evening News last evening. These takes are coming because the media is doing its usual thing of telling Democrats that they need to be responsible for cleaning up the mess the GQP has made. Fuck all of them, including Marcy Kaptur.
Miss Bianca
@Baud:
This. That’s my strong impression, anyway.
Suzanne
And My Kevin gets his ass slapped for a lucky SEVENTH time.
Man, so much winning! Is everyone tired of the winning yet? I am not.
Miss Bianca
@Joe Falco:
This, too.
Martin
@Frankensteinbeck: Yeah, I agree. But the house will be ungovernable for the next 2 years under any realistic speaker, so I’m just looking to do as much additional collateral damage as possible.
Anoniminous
Which would last about a minute …. minute and a half … before enough Crazies got together and demanded a new Speaker election under the Rules of the 117th House.
Which I recall is 5 but cannot verify since the site for the House rules is down and Google is, as usual, A Mess.
geg6
@Martin:
You forgot the Maya Rudolph gif.
Leto
@Suzanne: The “Hastert Rule”. They have their own made up rule that they’re not going to do a fucking thing with the opposite party. How the fuck are you supposed to have a bipartisan compromise when one side won’t even work with the other? Yet it’s still on Dems to “bridge the bipartisan divide”. Everyone who says that can fuck right out of the solar system.
Miss Bianca
@C Stars: I’m not sure this grandstanding from Boebert is actually welcome in CO-3. If I were Adam Frisch’s advisors, I’d be hammering on it for 2024.
Hoodie
@Leto: Nothing like upholding a rule named for a convicted child molester.
Brachiator
@Matt McIrvin:
I agree. Reich is a Sanders-leaning progressive. His recommendation to Democrats is at odds with his political beliefs.
I don’t know. Reich seems to be one of those people who just want something to get done, even if it is counter-productive. The pundits who insist that the Democrats should reach out don’t think about the consequences of a bad deal or defective compromise.
if the Republicans think that they need some support from the Democrats, it’s up to them to make it worth the Democrats’ time to even think about a deal.
Suzanne
@Leto:
Agreed.
If the GOP wants to suggest a compromise candidate, they should go ahead and suggest one. We keep suggesting that Hakeem Jeffries would be a good candidate, they can start there.
I have negative zero desire to help them destroy the country.
...now I try to be amused
@mvr:
Republicans have always had a problem with collective action. Everyone wants someone else to make the sacrifice. That kind of individual cowardice got them Trump.
Bill Arnold
@bbleh:
That is what tamper-resistant explosive collars are for.
MisterForkbeard
@Sister Golden Bear: Same – up in Sonoma County, we got a lot of rain but not catastrophically so. And likewise – high winds caused some power outages, but most are already repaired and the rest should be up in a few hours.
Still wanna go downtown in a bit to look at the river, see how high it’s gotten. Seems like a good time. :)
rikyrah
Tell it to the bleacher seats.
It is NOT the Democrats problem.
Not today.
Not tomorrow.
Not next week.
The GOP MUST CHOOSE ITS OWN SPEAKER.
Nancy Pelosi had this many members as McCarthy does now.
And, somehow….she got the votes.
opiejeanne
Bringing this up from the previous thread:
McCarthy needs to walk across the aisle and ignore the bomb throwers in his party. He can offer to take the budget threat of a shutdown, cuts to Social Security & Medicare, and a couple of other important things completely off the table, write it in his own blood with Nancy and Hakeem as witnesses, in return for just enough votes from the Democrats. promise to reneg on EVERYTHING he promised those particular idiots in his own party.
And then we might consider it
And Immanentize added that it should include equal representation on the committees.
Geminid
@Martin: Yes, it could be happening. Savvy biblical scholars say that a Speaker Trump will be a sign of the imminent Crapture.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Bingo. And most Guardian op-eds go like this
Noun, verb, neoliberal.
Betty Cracker
Aside from beclowning themselves, the one thing House Republicans have accomplished is removing the metal detectors at entryways to the House floor so members can walk in strapped. Maybe the internecine war will become literal, breaking the logjam.
M31
so the 7th vote was the same as the 6th, except the one ‘other’ was Trump?
Leto
@Hoodie:
right? No self reflection there…
@Suzanne: agreed
kindness
Except Robert Reicht’s failure is the same as Marcy’s. Republicans won’t keep any promises made to Democrats. Accepting a Republican’s word is a shame on me proposition. Within Republican’s ‘code’ (I won’t call it honor code because it sure isn’t honorable) is that lying to non-Republicans is fine because non-Republicans are non-entities and don’t deserve anything. These are proto-fascists we’re talking about. Ignoring what they have already told us is at our own peril.
dmsilev
@opiejeanne: Honestly, I think the Kevin ship has sailed. Nobody on the D side would trust a word he says with regards to pledges. If there’s some compromise Speaker elected by some bipartisan deal, it will almost definitely be someone who isn’t a current House member (some retired vaguely-moderate-by-current-standards former GOP Rep would be my guess) who therefore doesn’t have to care about being primaried out.
schrodingers_cat
From the dead thread, a succinct explanation of why won’t mommy clean up my mess op-eds.
pacem appellant
Reich is a good guy from a very different era of politics. I didn’t like “triangulation” but it was the soup that nourished Reich. It is unsurprising that he feels that there is still a Platonic “comity” that can be achieved. It’s kind of cute, in a way.
But it’s toxic. And more practically, unhelpful.
Republicans actively campaign, vote, and insurrect for the eradication of Democrats and democracy. It would be like trying to win concessions from Sauron. He’s still going to eat you alive.
dmsilev
@Betty Cracker: I still think the method that The Joker employed in The Dark Knight for choosing which minion he was going to hire is the appropriate one.
Or Thunderdome, but I’m not really sure the nation is ready to see the House GOP in those costumes.
Alison Rose
“The honorable Donald J Trump” OBJECTION, ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE
Leto
Pretty sure MuhKevin lost more votes this round.
PaulB
8th vote coming up. Nominating speeches now underway.
M31
lol who is this guy? “We are a team” lol
BR
The one thing Dems *could* do is leverage GOP hatred for anything and anyone that Dems support. So if there are any GOPers that are particularly dangerous and/or in a swing district, Dems could bear hug them and say “this is who we think would be friendly to Dem policies and would be a compromise candidate”. No need to actually follow through because that would immediately make that GOPer suspect within the GOP.
PaulB
I don’t think so, other than a missing member, so 433 votes rather than 434. The Not-Kevin vote count was identical to the last couple of votes.
$8 blue check mistermix
@Anoniminous:
Rules are adopted after the Speaker is elected. So there are no rules other than majority votes on motions from the floor, as I understand it.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
On MSNBC, David Jolly keeps hammering home that he and others learned a long time ago that Kevin can’t be trusted. There’s that anecdote Schiff tells about making small talk on a plane with KM, and KM making up some bullshit about what Schiff said, then appearing genuinely confused that Schiff was mad about the lie. Jim Himes quoted an anonymous member of the Goon Squad saying that Kevin “lied to me, then about me”. My spidey-sense tells me that was Gaetz, and it was related to 1/6.
In short: He’s known to be a lying liar who lies, and maybe doesn’t even know when he’s lying?
But as I recall, after it cost him his speakership last time, people said he almost certainly did not, in fact, have an affair with that Congresswoman from No Carolina. Renée something?
Geminid
@kindness: Marcy Kaptur is raising a possibility, but she would never, ever follow up on it unless her leadership gave her the green light, and I don’t think they will. Kaptur is as true and blue a Democrat as anyone on that floor.
Leslie
@dmsilev: I’m certainly not.
PaulB
A new thread is up for the 8th round of voting.
schrodingers_cat
@pacem appellant: He may or may not be a good guy. He has the political instincts of a potato who could not get nominated in MA when he ran for governor. He should be ignored.
piratedan
there is absolutely zero reason for the Dems to break ranks… if they break ranks, McCarthy comes in with the rules that have been dictated by the Freedom Caucus, i.e. no ethics office, no representation on committees and non-stop shits-how investigations.
nothing getting done is better than that.
C Stars
@Betty Cracker: Unfortunately, this had crossed my mind as well. Or maybe they’ll decide it by finding the one packing the most heat?
Roger Moore
@…now I try to be amused:
What a shock that the party of IGMFY has a problem with collective action. It’s almost as if having selfishness as your primary motivation interferes with being a team player.
artem1s
NOT ZEGS! yea!
mrmoshpotato
Yes it is! (Or have you not been listening to talking head idiots your entire life?)
Jeffro
@Suzanne: busted out laughing at this – THANKS
schrodingers_cat
@Brachiator: @Matt McIrvin: Reich like many others who worship at the altar of the Vt senator is probably okay with a herrenvolk democracy that sells the Ds diverse base down the river in return for M4A and free college.
Kent
Which of course tells us that our “squad” is not remotely the same as their squad of dipshits and anarchists
In fact, the comparison is the exact opposite. The members most resistant to Pelosi were not the most fringe candidates, they were the most “centrist” and closest to the other party. Whereas here we have the fringe lunatics setting the agenda.
The true comparison would be if there were a pack of GOPers who thought McCarthy was to much of a conservative insurrectionist Trumper and they wanted a more “centrist” candidate instead.
matt
@Kent: Dems should offer Jeffries as the compromise candidate.
topclimber
@Baud: Too bad he is right so often.
pacem appellant
@schrodingers_cat: I can second that.
Roger Moore
@Kent:
Yep. The core is that the furthest left Democrat fundamentally still wants a functioning government to implement their left-wing goals. A completely non-functional government doesn’t do it for them. The crazies on the right, though, would happily destroy the government to keep programs they don’t like from being implemented.
Scout211
Wrong thread.
RSA
I have a resting pulse of 57 and 13 respirations per minute. That makes me an excellent human being.
mrmoshpotato
@RSA:
Sounds more like the living dead. Do we have zombie jackals? 😁
schrodingers_cat
@Roger Moore: As a non-fan of the Squad I have to agree. The worst D in Congress is better than the best R in Congress.
MisterForkbeard
@matt: They should offer Pelosi. “A well respected former Speaker who’s proven she can deliver votes and keep the House in business is exactly what’s needed right now to stabilize the GOP.”
...now I try to be amused
@Roger Moore:
There is no “team” in “I”!
mvr
@pacem appellant:
Reich was one of the more left wing Clinton appointees as labor secretary iirc. But I believe he was replaced by a more “moderate” appointee in term 2 and that Clinton triagulated on positions Reich would have favored to get to his more conservative positions. So I can see that might leave a bad taste. But I think he’s also one of the Ds who would rather use class as the basis for explanations than race. And it doesn’t always work that way and he’s not super good at reading the political moment.
danielx
@mrmoshpotato:
Shhhhh…..
RSA
@mrmoshpotato: :-)
Capri
@Kent: Pelosi would not hold the election until she knew she had the votes. Can’t imagine she’d ever go into a situation like this if she didn’t know the outcome.
jefft452
“Moderate” Republican can vote for the moderate Jeffries if they want
jnfr
Thank you for this post. This is exactly right.