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American History and Black History Cannot Be Separated

Republicans seem to think life begins at the candlelight dinner the night before.

Why is it so hard for them to condemn hate?

The words do not have to be perfect.

A last alliance of elves and men. also pet photos.

Take hopelessness and turn it into resilience.

Roe isn’t about choice, it’s about freedom.

“Can i answer the question? No you can not!”

Take your GOP plan out of the witness protection program.

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

White supremacy is terrorism.

I know this must be bad for Joe Biden, I just don’t know how.

Historically it was a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.

Whoever he was, that guy was nuts.

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

Imperialist aggressors must be defeated, or the whole world loses.

If you tweet it in all caps, that makes it true!

Hot air and ill-informed banter

Is it negotiation when the other party actually wants to shoot the hostage?

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

Too often we confuse noise with substance. too often we confuse setbacks with defeat.

It’s the corruption, stupid.

They are lying in pursuit of an agenda.

They fucked up the fucking up of the fuckup!

You are here: Home / Music / Thursday Evening Open Thread: Rock’n’Roll’n’Fame

Thursday Evening Open Thread: Rock’n’Roll’n’Fame

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I’m not gonna argue about musical genres, but here are tributes to a couple of great women:


A Bonnie Raitt concert was the first show I paid to attend, when she was doing college tours back in 1973/74… (Unpaywalled ‘gift’ link):

Bonnie Raitt is no stranger to the Grammys, which will be awarded Sunday in Los Angeles. She has won 10 of them since 1979, and she has also been a frequent presenter and performer on the show, befitting a musician who has long been the model of a sustainable, self-guided rock career.

Raitt has never depended on hit singles or spectacle; instead, she relies on the quiet power of a voice that draws on blues, country, soul and rock to speak plainly about complicated emotions. Modestly but tenaciously, Raitt has cycled through decades of recording albums and touring, selling out 3,000-seat theaters and playing regularly at festivals. Musicians like Adele and Bon Iver have drawn on her repertoire, and younger musicians, particularly women, have cited her example as a bandleader and producer…

You’ve been an example for a lot of younger performers as a woman who is indisputably the bandleader.

Maria Muldaur told me that years ago. She decided that she could actually be a solo act after watching me with my band in the studio in Woodstock, making “Give It Up.” And in the last 10 years of Americana events, I meet all these other women like Brandi Carlile, and they’ll tell me that they were growing up on my music and what an influence I’ve been.

But it’s hard for me to think about that because I know my foibles and my failings. I still hold myself up to a standard I probably can’t live up to. But I’m really grateful when people say those kind things about me…

At your concerts, it seems that you’re totally relaxed and casual, but you’re onstage in front of thousands of people. Do you think about pacing, timing, theatricality?

Somehow I just learned to put a show together. There’s nothing like performing live. It’s just something I was born to do. And when I put together a show, I leave room for some wild cards. It’s a joy every night — to know that you have the aces on each of those instruments, and that we’ve rehearsed enough where we can have some fun with it. And I think the audiences are not there to see a jukebox show. They’re going with me wherever I want to go. I’m more comfortable onstage than any other place in my life. I wish I was as comfortable offstage as I am onstage…

Hard to believe this was just three years ago — *barely* pre-pandemic!

Reader Interactions

82Comments

  1. 1.

    trollhattan

    Shakira! Where’s TBogg?

    We’re seeing Bonnie next month, in our newly renovated theater that I’ve not been to since the overhaul. Looking forward to it! Last time she had Mavis Staples open–two goddesses right there on one stage.

    ETA Iron Maiden? Srsly?

  4. 4.

    trollhattan

    Oh hell yeah, get this fucker in the wallet if you’re not going to send him to richly deserved prison.

    A federal judge says a wrongful death lawsuit from the father of a man who was shot and killed by Kyle Rittenhouse can move forward.

    Anthony Huber was killed in Kenosha, Wisconsin, during unrest sparked when police shot a black man in the back. The lawsuit claims Rittenhouse, 17 at the time, conspired with officers to cause harm to protesters.

    Mr Rittenhouse was acquitted in November 2021 claiming self-defence.

    On Wednesday, US District Judge Lynn Adelman dismissed motions filed by Mr Rittenhouse and the government defendants who were seeking to block Mr Huber’s legal action. The civil rights lawsuit also alleges that officers allowed a dangerous situation to occur which violated Mr Huber’s son’s rights and killed him.
    In 2020, Rittenhouse killed Huber, 26, Joseph Rosenbaum, 36, and injured Gaige Grosskreutz, 27.

    ETA sorry Betty, the bastard is now “Florida Man.”

    In order to serve the lawsuit, John Huber had to have private investigators track down Mr Rittenhouse’s residence – searching addresses in seven states.

    Eventually they found his mother and sister’s address in Florida. His sister was actually served and claimed he was not home. Judge Adelman says that is sufficient evidence of being served.

  6. 6.

    Old School

    This year’s nominees:

    Kate Bush
    Sheryl Crow
    Missy Elliott
    Iron Maiden
    Joy Division/New Order
    Cyndi Lauper
    George Michael
    Willie Nelson
    Rage Against The Machine
    Soundgarden
    The Spinners
    A Tribe Called Quest
    The White Stripes
    Warren Zevon

    Five of those names will be inducted.

  8. 8.

    Cacti

    I don’t understand why they don’t just call it the Contemporary Popular Music Hall of Fame, considering how many non-rock and roll acts are in it.

  12. 12.

    SpaceUnit

    The R&R Hall of Fame has been struggling to remain relevant since the bigs in the music industry collectively decided to sideline rock music back in the late 90’s.  Also, Paul Rogers still hasn’t been nominated.

  14. 14.

    eclare

    @Kent:   I don’t know if I would vote for him to be inducted, but George Michael was very influential.  He has a lot of great songs.

  16. 16.

    Mai Naem mobile

    I am surprised Kate Bush wasn’t already in. Also my favorite song of Shakira – that’s easy – her newest one ‘BZRP Music Session #53’.  The lyrics have to have left a burn on her ex who’s apparently been cheating on her a while.

  18. 18.

    SpaceUnit

    @Amir Khalid:

    The big record companies got tired of chasing rock.  It’s too unpredictable.  It evolves too quickly as young people come along and make it their own.

    Think of the mid seventies when punk and new wave came along and left the music biz holding a Molly Hatchet record with their pants around their ankles.  The post-punk eighties, same thing.  Early nineties grunge.  The music industry said fuck it.

  19. 19.

    RandomMonster

    Is it really fair to say Joy Division and New Order are the same band? I call bullshit.

  20. 20.

    Danielx

    @Alison Rose:

    73 and beautiful.

    Saw her years ago during Nick of Time tour. Fantastic show with Buddy Guy as opening act, with Buddy wearing a serious pink silk suit.

  22. 22.

    Martin

    Honestly, that Iron Maiden, Soundgarden and Rage aren’t already in is a bit of a travesty. I can’t say that White Stripes really contributed anything especially novel. I like them, but nothing groundbreaking here. Joy Division also quite influential. Tribe Called Quest is great, but I’d never have considered them a rock group. Similar to many others on the list. Not a big fan of Zevon, so I’d defer to others on him.

    But those first 3 were massive influences. Joy Division was less punch in the face so, but had staying power.

  23. 23.

    eclare

    @Danielx:   I saw Buddy Guy at the Midtown Music Fest in ATL years ago, great show.  I also saw The Blind Boys of Alabama on the same stage!

  24. 24.

    prostratedragon

    Time does fly unless it creeps. I’d have guessed that Shakira/Jennifer appearance was more like 5 years ago. Must be the pandemic.

  26. 26.

    OverTwistWillie

    Willie has made significant contributions to the Great American Songbook, but I wouldn’t label him as rock or country.

  27. 27.

    SpaceUnit

    @Amir Khalid:

    Music execs just don’t want to work that hard.  They’re mostly the fail sons of the rich and well connected.  They want to snort coke, go to parties, and hit on the wannabe starlets.

    Their business model is the same as the fast food biz.  They want something they can crap out endlessly with basic ingredients and little effort.  They want to dumb down the public’s tastes.  And that’s exactly what you get with pop, country and hip hop.

    Sorry to rant.  I fucking hate the music business (the big labels anyway).  It’s a major pet peeve.

  28. 28.

    different-church-lady

    I don’t consider half of those nominees to be rock and roll acts. But any of them would make great nominees for a hypothetical pop music hall of fame.

  29. 29.

    RandomMonster

    @Matt McIrvin: I’m not even in favor of Van Halen (Sammy Hagar era) being inducted (whenever that was) at the same time as Van Halen (DLR era). Standards people!

  31. 31.

    UncleEbeneezer

    Wait how is George Michael not in already???  Unless Wham already is, GM has like a dozen classic songs that were absolutely HUGE!!

  32. 32.

    Chris Johnson

    George Michael was one of the most awesome people ever, quite outside of his music-making. Like Prince, he was quietly generous on a massive scale, a total ubermensch.

    That said… MAIDENNNN! Iron Maiden absolutely should be in the Hall of Fame.

    Totally love Tribe Called Quest, but I wouldn’t blame anyone for passing them over as they’re hip-hop, not at all rock. Phife forever :)

    Warren Zevon was one hell of a great songwriter.

  33. 33.

    different-church-lady

    @eclare: ​
      Yes, but I want him to, if not burn in hell, then at least singe in heck for inflicting that damn Christmas song on the world.

  39. 39.

    What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?

    Hope New Order gets in. I was way into them in high school and still listen to them from time to time. The first three ladies all seem deserving. It’s also hard to root against Cindy Lauper. I like A Tribe Called Quest too. And of course Willie is a legend and probably rock adjacent enough to qualify.

  40. 40.

    trollhattan

    @Danielx: Saw Buddy last fall and he was rocking polka-dots–suit jacket and guitar. Dude can still play the hell out of it, too (at 86!).

  41. 41.

    Kent

    Soundgarden:

    I went to a bunch of their shows when they were playing local gigs in Seattle in the late 1980s.  Those were the days to be in Seattle.  Rent was cheap and there was a crackling hot music scene.  And I didn’t even need to buy any new clothes to be “grunge”  I was already there given that I was working as a biologist on fishing boats in Alaska while making my home base Seattle.

    They took their name from the Soundgarden sculpture that is at the NOAA headquarters on Lake Washington in Seattle where I used to work.  On nice days I used to take my lunch out there and relax in the summer sun.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Sound_Garden

    They did one big free concert on the beach at Magnuson Park around 1990 if I remember correctly.  Everyone flooded there.   That was when Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Alice in Chains, and Soundgarden were all playing locally in Seattle.

  43. 43.

    CaseyL

    Considering that Rock & Roll was born out of alienation, and matured in an era of rebellion-without-portfolio, and continues to be shaped (if not popularized) by artists who seek to break boundaries, I find the whole idea of a R&R HOF rather funny.

    I mean, I do appreciate ground-breaking artists being recognized and celebrated, but it’s kind of like if early Punk Rock held a beauty contest.

  47. 47.

    piratedan

    kind of agree that it should be reclassified as the Popular Music HOF instead of RockNRoll, but I guess it all comes down to personal taste, do you go with artists that sold lots of records (or in these days, streams or downloads) or do you select artists that broke boundaries, became iconic (whatever that means, someone who ends up transcending their music I guess), blazed a trail/blurred lines, and/or influenced multiple artists in their wake or a blend of both.

  48. 48.

    Steeplejack

    @CaseyL:

    I just heard Led Zeppelin on a TV car commercial, for chrissakes. The whole “scene” has been co-opted and corporatized. (Even concert ticket sales!) And everything is so splintered that it’s hard for “rebel” artists to find the boundaries, much less break them. The culture at large doesn’t care. You can have your little niche rebellion, and if anybody even notices most of them won’t care.

  50. 50.

    Brachiator

    @Steeplejack:

    I just heard Led Zeppelin on a TV car commercial, for chrissakes.

    For a while, some famous musicians were afraid that streaming and other changes might mean that they would not make money from their songs again. This may have spurred deals to allow the use of music in commercials and elsewhere.

    Audience expectations have changed as well. I was watching some videos of young people reacting to pop and rock songs. Often someone would ask what movie or TV song featured the song, as though this was needed to validate that the song was good or “classic.”

    The whole “scene” has been co-opted and corporatized. (Even concert ticket sales!) And everything is so splintered that it’s hard for “rebel” artists to find the boundaries, much less break them.

    I think that in some ways “rebellious” has really meant “your parents don’t like or understand it,” for any pop music in all of human history.

  54. 54.

    evap

    I saw Bonnie Raitt opening for Gordon Lightfoot in 1977 in Chicago.  I had never heard of her and thought she was great.

    My first concert was The Monkees in 1968 in Jacksonville, FL.  I was 10 years old and my father got the tickets and hired a babysitter to take my brother and I to the concert.    Jimi Hendrix was the opening act!   I don’t remember much about the concert, but I do remember being very confused by the opening act since I knew that wasn’t The Monkees up there.    (I don’t remember Jimi specifically, but it turns out that the only time the Monkees played in Jacksonville he was the opening act.)

  55. 55.

    Sean Nuttall

    Every year I get pissed off because Jethro Tull gets ignored. Maybe I’m a shallow 70’s guy, but how the hell are they not worthy of the supposed “rock and roll” hall of fame?

  57. 57.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Kent: Huge grunge fan here and Soundgarden has over the years distanced themselves from the rest of the pack and is, imo, the best of the bunch.  At the time, I loved Pearl Jam and Alice In Chains better, but Soundgarden is really the only one that evolved and never got boring.  It’s hard for me to think of a better four-album run than Louder Than Love -> Badmotorfinger -> SuperUnknown -> Down On The Upside.  Cornell also had his solo stuff that was great and really carried Temple of the Dog too.  Obviously, Nirvana and AIC both had their career arcs cut way short by Kurt and Layne’s deaths.  The only downside of Soundgarden was that when I saw them at Lollapalooza 2, Cornell really struggled to hit the high notes that he was so well known for.  Several bootlegs confirmed that this was a pretty common problem throughout their career, which is a bummer because man, in the studio his voice was absolutely incredible (maybe my favorite vocalist of all time, tbh).

  58. 58.

    UncleEbeneezer

    George Michael
    Soundgarden
    Rage
    (pick two more, I don’t care)

    Rant- The fact that Living Colour isn’t in the HOF yet, is bullshit.  Multiple hits.  Grammy’s.  Iconic guitar riffs.  And about the only rock band of the 80’s-90’s who actually had lyrics about important shit.

  60. 60.

    Tony G

    @Cacti: Sadly, yes.  I was a youth when Kiss started to become popular in the mid-seventies, and I couldn’t believe that they had any actual fans.

  61. 61.

    Tony G

    @evap: Wow.  That was a legendary concert.  The fact that that concert was in 1968 is interesting, because Hendrix had already released two albums by then.  I guess it took awhile for him to become commercially successful (and then he died).   The Monkees, meanwhile, were very lucrative and popular for about two years — and then they weren’t anymore.

  62. 62.

    Tony G

    @UncleEbeneezer: Yeah.  I was already in my late thirties when the whole grunge thing happened but, in my opinion, Soundgarden was one of the best bands in any era — up there with The Who in my estimation.

  64. 64.

    Kent

    @Tony G:@Cacti: Sadly, yes.  I was a youth when Kiss started to become popular in the mid-seventies, and I couldn’t believe that they had any actual fans.

    I was in middle school in the late 70s and Kiss was basically the band that all the middle school kids liked who knew they were supposed to be into rock and roll but weren’t confident enough in their own tastes to pick their own bands.  AC/DC was basically the same.

    By the time we got to HS we had mostly outgrew Kiss and moved on to Rush, Van Halen, Queen, etc.

  65. 65.

    SpaceUnit

    Oh, and while I’m dragging the music industry I’d like to offer a very special one-of-a-kind fuck you to Clear Channel (or whatever they’re calling themselves these days – I think they’ve changed their name), the capitalist monstrosity that gobbled up the lion’s share of radio stations in the US and turned them into bland, sterile, cookie-cutter formats with each genre playing identical playlists dictated from their corporate headquarters.

     

    ETA:  Ticketbastard can suck it too.

  67. 67.

    steppy

    For what it’s worth:

    Sheryl Crow
    Rage Against The Machine
    Soundgarden
    The Spinners
    Warren Zevon

    Willie was never rock and hasn’t actually written a song since like 1979.

    I debated myself about Cyndi Lauper v. Sheryl Crow.

    I liked White Stripes, but….nah.

  68. 68.

    lowtechcyclist

    @What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?:

    It’s also hard to root against Cindy Lauper.

    Then I’ll take on the challenge. And I say that as someone who still loves her She’s So Unusual album.  I found her second album disappointing, and if she’s done anything of note since, I’ve missed it.

    I’ve been saying for years that it’s become the Rock N’ Roll Hall of the Pretty Good, and much as I love that one album of hers, Cyndi is a case in point.

  69. 69.

    UncleEbeneezer

    Incidentally, since George Michael and Rage Against The Machine are both mentioned, it’s worth noting that they both wrote two of the best songs with “Freedom” in the title.

    George Michael’s incredibly funk masterpiece, which I dare anyone not to sing along with.  It’s impossible.

    And Rage’s much heavier, angrier, in-your-face call to revolution.

    Two very different versions of Freedom, only 3 years apart!

  70. 70.

    NobodySpecial

    Eh, I’m a realist about it since way back. Metal is the new prog rock to the HoF; even a band as seminal as Judas Priest barely got in, and through the old “Sidemen” award, however it was renamed. As much as Maiden and Rage might feel deserved, neither one gets in.

    My probable five is Missy Elliott, Soundgarden, Willie, Zevon, and Joy Division.

  71. 71.

    trnc

    @Kent: I went into a local club to buy tickets for Voivod in 1990 when Soundgarden was a supporting act for them. The night I went in for the tickets, Drivin N Cryin was playing. I didn’t even know they were playing. but they had sold out and there were a bunch of people standing outside bitching about not being able to get in. I went to the front desk to buy the tickets and the woman there told me that I had to get the tickets at the bar, so I went to the bar, which, of course, was in the same room as the stage. So I bought my tickets and then watched D n’ C for about 30 minutes. I would have told some of the D n’ C fans how they could have gotten in, but they were gone when I walked out. Sad!

    Voivod was pretty good, but Soundgarden made me a fan.

  72. 72.

    trnc

    If you are any kind of Rush fan and haven’t seen Alex Lifeson’s speech for their induction, I would highly recommend it. It’s better if you happen to know their backstory. You may want to stop watching 30 seconds in, but the whole thing actually makes more sense if you stick with it.

  73. 73.

    trnc

    @Kent: Kiss was basically the band that all the middle school kids liked who knew they were supposed to be into rock and roll

    That was me. I loved the Beatles records that my older siblings had, but Kiss was the first band that was mine so I credit them with being the gateway band before Aerosmith and Zeppelin, then Kansas, Rush, Tull and Yes. Kiss had some genuinely good songs before they started dumbing it down for the record label.

  80. 80.

    Paul in KY

    @Sean Nuttall: I think the Hall has a problem with whom they should induct from that band, as Ian has played with alot of other members. I say either induct Ian alone or whomever played on Aqualung.

  81. 81.

    Paul in KY

    @UncleEbeneezer: I was at Rock on the Range when he was supposed to play with Audioslave and instead offed himself the night before. Sorta put a downer on the whole weekend.

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