Breaking ABC: Mike Pence has been subpoenaed by the special counsel overseeing Trump probes. https://t.co/P5Hr5A55sW
— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) February 9, 2023
Don't assume the Special Counsel's subpoena means Pence is ready to litigate. His team may have insisted on the cover of a subpoena as they continue to toe the line between fidelity to the rule of law and subservience to the rule of Trump.https://t.co/aeB4lxKCtQ
— Lisa Rubin (@lawofruby) February 9, 2023
… It’s not immediately clear what information the subpoena from special counsel Jack Smith is seeking, but it follows months of negotiations between federal prosecutors and Pence’s legal team.
Smith was appointed in November to oversee the investigation into Trump’s potential mishandling of classified documents after leaving the presidency and obstructing the government’s efforts to retrieve them — as well as a separate probe into efforts by Trump and his allies to overturn the results of the 2020 election.
The move will be seen as a major escalation of Smith’s probe into efforts by Trump and his allies to overturn the election, and suggests that Smith’s investigation has entered a more advanced stage…
Marcy Wheeler wrote about this possibility, back in November:
As I noted, Jack Smith could not take action without getting this direct fact witness on the record about what he meant by this comment.
Also, he need to get Pence under oath bc this sounds like an attempt to provide Trump excuses. pic.twitter.com/PiyGP5xQLp
— emptywheel (@emptywheel) February 9, 2023
This goes on your permanent record, Mr. Pence…
No sitting or Former Vice President—even Federally convicted Spiro Agnew—has ever received a subpoena in a criminal investigation in American history. https://t.co/nZLaOLxsJX
— Spiro’s Ghost (@SpiroAgnewGhost) February 9, 2023
Breaking News: Mike Pence is said to have been subpoenaed by the special counsel investigating Donald Trump’s efforts to overturn the 2020 election. https://t.co/hgvgYcc4Gb
— The New York Times (@nytimes) February 9, 2023
Access Maggie Haberman and her designated coatholder Glenn Thrush, still fluffing TFG’s strategery…
… Mr. Pence was at the center of Mr. Trump’s last gasp to hold on to power in the two months after his election loss. Mr. Trump seized on Mr. Pence’s ceremonial role in overseeing the congressional certification of the Electoral College results to try to press his vice president into blocking or delaying the outcome on Jan. 6, 2021.
Mr. Pence refused, a fact highlighted publicly by Mr. Trump as he stirred up a crowd of his supporters that day before they marched to the Capitol and breached it. Some of the rioters were heard chanting, “Hang Mike Pence.”
Mr. Pence is a potential rival to Mr. Trump for the 2024 Republican presidential nomination…
War for Ukraine Day 349 or 350 (I Think I’ve Kicked a Day Somewhere): President Zelenskyy Goes to Brussels
Wyatt Salamanca
Pence is no potential rival. He’s a spineless milquetoast who doesn’t have the guts to run against Trump.
twbrandt (formerly tom)
I got out of the prediction business after 2016, but I feel confident in saying that Mike Pence doesn’t stand a snowball’s chance in hell winning the Republican presidential nomination, or the presidency.
Dan B
@Wyatt Salamanca: And there’s Pence’s dramatic fall in popularity in Indiana and the HIV epidemic he precipitated. Plus there’s the less charismatic than Rhonda Sandtits.
Tennessee is planning to do the same for HIV by refusing federal bucks for prevention programs.
Delk
Good. The asshole is set to run anti-trans ads in Iowa.
Josie
@Delk:
I can’t believe these idiots think this is a good hill to die on. I’m a 79 year old straight white woman, and I am repulsed by the hatred they are showing.
Adam L Silverman
via GIPHY
mrmoshpotato
@Dan B:
Hahahah!
Jackie
@Wyatt Salamanca: Nor to testify against the person who encouraged his potential death.
This is gonna be interesting…!
Alison Rose
[Insert Nelson Muntz ha-ha gif]
Also too, since it’s an open thread, holy fuck one of you richie riches buy this for me I will be your best friend forever and ever amen. IT’S RIVENDELL. IT’S GORGEOUS. IT’S LEGOS.
mrmoshpotato
OT – halfway through Biden’s State of the Union. Thoroughly enjoying Uncle Joe slapping around the Rethuglicans.
David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch
Maybe Pence can pray away the special prosecutor
cmorenc
From a cynical pure tactical standpoint, it’s better for our 2024 election prospects if Jack Smith doesn’t take Trump down too soon to do tons of dirty advance work roughing up Ron DeSantis, and better still if Trump runs 3p, even if he only drains 5 to 10% of the hard-core MAGA vote. Yes, there are some among us who predict DeSantis won’t translate nearly so well with a national electorate as with the Florida ‘22 electorate, even if Trump is forced out early on by indictments. But there’s less chance of being wrong about that if Trump is able to serve as a useful idiot giving us an unintended assist.
bbleh
All power to Jack “Sure That’s His Real Name” Smith, and the Klingon Code of Honor!
And can’t think of a “nicer” reactionary Dominionist-manqué sub-level authoritarian to have his political prospects (such as they are, heh. Heh heh.) hit with this kind of high explosive.
@Delk: this. See also similar actions as Governor
@cmorenc: hair-splitting perhaps, but ain’t no “too soon” IMO. Full-scale warfare starting NOW, say I. Trump is a master of delay, and the campaign is already starting to heat up (alas; stupid system).
bbleh
(Deleted)
ALurkSupreme
@Alison Rose: $500? Day-um. I’m in the wrong business.
David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch
@bbleh: always projection as his grandfather’s real name was Drumpf
Wyatt Salamanca
@Alison Rose:
That was great!
Check out this one:
M.C. Escher’s Relativity in LEGO
h/t http://www.andrewlipson.com/escher/relativity.html
CaseyL
When Pence eventually goes in for his interview, I hope the negotiations that led to this point don’t narrow the field of questioning down too much.
“My client will only discuss a single phone call he had with the President” would be pretty useless.
Princess
Seems to me it’s in Pence’s interest both to drop a whole roll of dimes on Trump, and to be perceived as being forced into doing so.
Aussie Sheila
Pence is a cream cheese weasel who has as much chance of being President as I do. I am glad he is being forced to testify under oath. The faux piety will get him nowhere before prosecutors. God I hope they all go down and I wouldn’t worry too much about tfg. In my view he is electoral toast if he wins the nom, and if he doesn’t a fair slice of his dumb electorate will stay home.
bbleh
@CaseyL: I guess it depends on what they really need from him, but there’s always “well, counselor, if your client really wants to be hit with an obstruction charge, I guess that’s up to him, but of course it will have to be made public …”
Brachiator
@cmorenc:
What Republicans do is irrelevant to the Democrat’s chances. The GOP may rip itself apart during the primaries. But ultimately, they will all fall in line and back whichever nimrod is selected to be their candidate. However, I will enjoy the show and hope it is as nasty as they want it.
I don’t understand DeSantis’ Florida popularity. He comes across as dull and sullen. But he knows how to appeal to the anger, resentment and cold bigotry of the GOP base almost as well as Trump. We will see where the plutocrat money flows.
DeSantis is small time, and Trump knows how to steal publicity. But they are both losers. Unfortunately, or fortunately, the GOP is addicted to losers.
David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch
@Brachiator: He was clearly shaken yesterday when was asked to respond to Dump calling him a pedo. Classic bully – when they get popped in the face they breakdown.
CaseyL
@bbleh: That might loosen the Cream Cheese Wonder up a bit. If it’s a credible vailed threat – because he’s dumb as a stump, but chances are his attorneys are not.
Aussie Sheila
@Brachiator: I would say ‘fortunately’ in the circumstances. That party needs an electoral shellacking. They haven’t really had one yet, but next presidential election could be the one. Here’s hoping 🤞
geg6
@Brachiator:
I think I read that the Kochs are getting behind DeSantis. I also read that GOP insiders are concerned that the big money guys are not as useful or needed in this age of small donors. They don’t think it makes as big an impact, thus diluting their power.
Geminid
@Aussie Sheila: Politico put up an article yesterday about some wealthy donors trying to avert a Trump nomination. One was a big Trump backer but is now convinced Trump can’t win in 2024 (I think he’s right). So they are trying to discourage Republican candidates from crowding the field until they can figure out who the strongest one is and place their chips on him.
This of course flies in the face of human nature, more specifically ambition. These hopefuls, even the hapless Pence, believe in themselves and their ability to put away Trump and DeSantis too.
They also believe their own propaganda about Biden’s weakness and see 2024 as a very favorable year to run. I don’t expect to see much self-abnegation from this crowd. As Lincoln remarked, once the worm of Presidential ambition starts gnawing, it gnaws deep.
But happily, this is a Republican problem. When it comes to Republican candidates, the more the merrier as far as I’m concerned. Let a Hundred Flowers Bloom!
Brachiator
@geg6:
Interesting. Following the money will, as always, be important.
The GOP courts small donors because they want their votes. They don’t care about their money. The GOP is happy to be bought and owned by the plutocrats.
Wyatt Salamanca
@geg6:
My understanding was that the Kochs are anti-Trump, but not yet committed to DeSantis. From what I’ve seen of DeSantis so far, I think Trump will eat him alive in short order.
After Trump humiliates Haley, DeSantis, and all the other dopes, I expect the Kochs to bow down to him.
Sure Lurkalot
@Wyatt Salamanca: I’m bookmarking that Relativity in Lego page…thanks for that excellent find. I visited an Escher museum in The Hague. It was fabulous!
geg6
@Wyatt Salamanca:
Oh, I agree that Cheetolini will rip him to pieces. It’s already begun. The pedo pic accusations the other day seemed to rattle him.
Brachiator
@David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch:
DeSantis and Trump are both bullies. But Trump is shameless and desperate. DeSantis may not be ready for prime time. He should know that Trump intends to take him down.
Trump also feels that he can be a brutal as he wants to be, because the GOP refused to rein him in. Trump is a coward, but perversely enough, his fear of being a loser and looking bad pushes him to do what other candidates might not do,
piratedan
@cmorenc: I thnk that I am in the camp of “fuck tactical”; arrest these bastards and everyone involved.
If this is as widespread and as deep as we have always suspected, There could be 50-100 people involved, from the financiers to sitting SCOTUS justices (and their spouses) to current lawmakers and media foofs.
I fully expect the FAFO repercussions to lend enough chaos that the GOP may have trouble forming a starting five for hoops when its all said and done.
japa21
My personal, unprofessional, fully ignorable take, is that Trump wants as many folks to enter the primary as possible. It wouldn’t surprise me if he pushed Haley into announcing. His street smarts (he has no other kind) lets him know that he would have trouble if there were only 1 or 2 challengers. He really only won the nomination in 2016 because there were initially so many candidates that, with only 30% of the vote (which was his early total) he could win all the delegates in many states. He only started racking up votes when he had already convinced people he was going to be the candidate.
Wyatt Salamanca
@Sure Lurkalot:
You’re welcome. A few years ago, I saw a great Escher exhibition in Brooklyn. He once turned down Mick Jagger’s request to use one of his works for a Rolling Stones album cover.
Omnes Omnibus
@Princess: Yep. Always ask to be subpoenaed.
Omnes Omnibus
@CaseyL:
Gosh, I hope the actual litigators who are working on the case thought of that.
Wyatt Salamanca
@Brachiator:
Unlike all the other clowns who are considering a presidential run, Trump is pure, unadulterated id. DeSantis isn’t willing to get into the gutter with him.
Qrop Non Sequitur
There’s a lot any lawyer can learn from IANALs online.
dm
@Alison Rose: The white phone on Bilbo’s desk is kind of weird…..
zhena gogolia
Slightly OT, Aaron Rupar has a bunch of great clips from today’s “weaponization” hearing, but this is my favorite:
lowtechcyclist
@Wyatt Salamanca:
If that was a Lego kit, I’d buy it in a heartbeat.
Alison Rose
@dm: LOL I had to look at the photos again because I didn’t know what you meant. I can see how it does kinda look like a landline receiver.
lowtechcyclist
@Geminid:
Fixed!
West of the Rockies
If Smith is already about to chat with Pence–the #2 guy–things are moving swiftly. He’s not just now chatting with Scaramuci’s girl Friday, or the second-assistant press secretary of Trump’s small business advisory board.
Wyatt Salamanca
@zhena gogolia:
This Republican caucus is the ultimate confederacy of dunces.
Jackie
@Brachiator: Will TFG’s Deplorables vote for anyone else but him? Only if TFG gave them permission – and I really doubt that would happen.
So if all the big money donors agree to back – let’s say DeSantis – without TFG’s Base, republicans still won’t win.
RaflW
@Alison Rose: I’m lucky my new Lego dream is under 13 bucks! I may stand a chance of getting it for Xmas (if I hint extravagantly around my partners family).
lowtechcyclist
@Wyatt Salamanca:
Just sayin’.
VOR
@japa21: Agree, Trump wants a repeat of 2016 where all the challengers split the “anyone but Trump” vote. The MAGAts are hardcore but not enough. The 1% Pence sucks off could help dilute things enough that Trump can win primaries with a sub-majority.
Still, I wonder who Pence thinks his constituency is. The MAGAts see him as a traitor. He has all the charisma of wallpaper paste. IIRC, he was polling around 13% in 2016 when he left office in Indiana. Why should the few sane republicans support him over Haley, Pompeo, and whoever else decides to run?
Omnes Omnibus
@VOR: Counsel for wallpaper paste on the line… Something about cease and desist… Defamation… They sound kind of worked up about it.
MobiusKlein
Apparently JIRA (issue management system many folks in software know and love/hate) is the new Right Wing boggard.
https://twitter.com/bennyjohnson/status/1623424584501305352
Those folks are just dumb.
Wyatt Salamanca
@VOR:
You’re being too generous to Pence. If he had the charisma of wallpaper paste, it would actually be an upgrade for him.
Martin
@VOR: Pence or DeSantis? Who is best for holding up your wallpaper?
Brachiator
@Wyatt Salamanca:
@Jackie:
Good point. DeSantis gains nothing by letting Trump get him into the gutter. But he will have to decide how to respond to Trump. And I count on the press to keep any “fight” alive.
Good question. I don’t know how the GOP intends to run its primary. If Trump racks up convincing early victories, then it’s game over. If Trump has to drop out for some reason, he might still be a kingmaker. Early victories neutralizes money, to some degree.
Either way, the Republicans will be the losers. I still think that for now, the politics of resentment and bigotry limits how far the GOP can go.
bbleh
@lowtechcyclist: It’s the ultimate Confederacy of DUNCES. Just sayin’.
@Brachiator: Self-sabotaging resentment and bigotry, whoooo! Go Republicans!
Frankensteinbeck
@Brachiator:
There was a whole lot of complaining for awhile that Trump was eating the small donor bucks and not sharing with the GOP. As much as the party apparatus loves plutocrats, if insiders are saying small donor bucks have shifted the power structure, we should take that seriously. Elected GOP already usually pick their voters’ hate over plutocrats’ benefit… in the very rare circumstances those conflict.
@David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch:
That suggests DeSantis is not ready to go national and can only succeed in Florida’s unique, protected environment. Sexually preying on teens is not a negative to the GOP base, as long as it’s heterosexual. DeSantis should have been able to shrug this off.
bbleh
@Frankensteinbeck: I maintain that DeSantis has Wallace-like appeal in the Confederacy and like-minded communities outside it, but he lacks broad appeal, political resilience, or personal charisma.
That said, “please proceed, Governor.” May the best Floridian … uh … emerge from the mud-pit only to lose miserably in the general.
Steeplejack
@RaflW:
Thanks! Bookmarked that for my nephew’s birthday in April. He is a Lego maniac.
Princess
Thanks to Citizen’s United, running for President is a huge fabulous grifting opportunity. Even if the big donors want to keep it small, I doubt they’ll be able to keep out all the small time hustlers who see it as a money making opportunity from small donors. They don’t need a constituency, at least, not an huge one. And a bored media will be sure to give each one attention. Please proceed, Republicans.
Debbie(Aussie)
Hi everyone. I am slowly but surely reading my way through today’s posts and comments. I have been dying, with out rancour to advise you al that LEGO IS LEGO. a box of LEGO a Lego brick, a collection of Lego! I realise that the citizens of the US like to be different, but please, I beg you.
ok, rant over. This is the one thing I wish to be a pedant about.
back to your regular commentary. Deb
dexwood
What did the fly on Pence’s head know and when did it know it?
Alison Rose
@Debbie(Aussie): You got me. I call them legos due to nationalism. Or something.
It’s a brand-name-becoming-generic-noun thing. Like calling bandages band-aids or tissues Kleenex. It’s fine. You know what we mean.
Mike in NC
Jennifer Rubin at the Washington Post long ago declared that Pence lacked both a personality and a philosophy.
Suzanne
@RaflW: I have been jonesing for THE MIGHTY BOWSER Lego set.
West of the Rockies
Martin:
Well, Piggy Pompeo isn’t exactly Gregory Peck or Barack Obama. What a congealed bowl of curds he is…
Jackie
@Frankensteinbeck: HuffPost published an article today re TFG’s grifting small donors:
”WASHINGTON — Donald Trump failed to spend much of the money he raised over the past two years fighting his 2020 election loss or helping Republicans win two Georgia Senate seats or funding a “red wave” in 2022, but he did manage to put nearly $1 million of his donors’ contributions right back into his own cash registers.
From the day he left office through the end of last year, the coup-attempting former president’s various political committees spent $905,570 at his properties, according to a HuffPost analysis of new Federal Election Commission filings.”
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-campaign-self-dealing_n_63e42fd1e4b07f036b9a5944
Wyatt Salamanca
@Debbie(Aussie):
@Alison Rose:
The biggest LEGO sets of all time – November 2022
https://www.brickfanatics.com/the-biggest-lego-sets-all-time-november-2022
and FUCK Mike Pence.
kalakal
@Alison Rose:
When I came to live here I had to learn a whole new set of generics as nobody knew what the hell I meant
eg Ballpoint for Biro
Bandaid for Elastoplast
Scotch Tape for Sellotape
an odd one was
Sweeper for Hoover
To the English every vacuum cleaner is a Hoover* , sweeper would mean a mechanical carpet sweeper
*except for the wonderful Henry (and now also Hetty & James the worlds cutest vacuum cleaners
Sister Golden Bear
Fuck this fucking fuck. Pence to run anti-trans ads in Iowa.
BTW, we’re up to 301 anti-LGB, and especially T, bills have been introduced state legislatures since January.
KrackenJack
@Geminid: Corpse flowers, that is.
TriassicSands
Actually, I think that gives Trump his best chance of getting the nomination — just like in 2016. The best case scenario seems to me to be to have just a few candidates with DeSantis (or someone else) winning the nomination, but infuriating Trump along the way. Trump, the Paul Lazzaro of politics (“Revenge is the sweetest thing in life.”, then decides if he can’t have the nomination, then no Republican will be allowed to win, so he runs a spoiler third party vengence campaign.
The result is a Democratic victory, the end of Trump’s political career, and a big loss sitting heavily on DeSantis. That wouldn’t stop DeSantis from getting the nomination in 2028. However, what we don’t know at this point is how effective Kim Jong Ron will be as a presidential candidate. Sadly, given the state of the GOP’s electorate, being a good candidate doesn’t matter much at all. It’s all about who is the most vile humanoid.
West of the Rockies
@Sister Golden Bear:
Republicans or whatever these people are called are heinous. They are terrified, enraged, jealous, and resentful 24/7.
Kent
Correct me if I’m wrong here. But isn’t Special Counsel testimony almost certainly going to be sealed unless there is an actual indictment of Trump and then we wouldn’t actually hear about it unless Pence’s testimony was introduced in the trial?
Or I suppose if he finally wraps up the whole thing and issues a STARR report sort of thing like Ken Starr or Robert Mueller.
Kent
@TriassicSands: The paradox is that the weaker Trump is perceived the more it increases his chances. Because the weaker he is perceived the more sharks will enter the water to run, which will paradoxically increase his chances. Since no matter how badly he is perceived, he’ll always keep his rock bottom MAGA base of at least 30% of the party.
Bill
He actually could have been president (for about a week) if only he had found the courage to round up some cabinet members and invoke the 25th amendment, but he had delusions that he had some sort of political viability to preserve.
Ohio Mom
@geg6: Didn’t one of the Koch brothers die, and so now it is simply Koch? (I have a vague memory that the rest of the family isn’t as rabid about politics.)
Ohio Mom
@Ohio Mom: oh foof! I’m in moderation because I cleaned out my cookies earlier today and made a typo while filling in my email. Proof that I’m up past my bedtime.
Omnes Omnibus
@Sister Golden Bear: Saw this and thought of you.
trollhattan
Da fuq?
Stuart in Austin
@Aussie Sheila: Look at how badly Johnson beat Goldwater. Then look at the progression through Nixon to Reagan.
TriassicSands
@Kent:
I agree. In a race between Trump and Biden, I think it would be close, at least in the EC. I’m afraid Biden won’t fare as well against DeSantis, but it remains to be seen how good his campaign will be.
But if Trump runs as a third party candidate, I don’t see any way the Republicans could win. Trump has a loyal, if shrinking, base. It’s disappointing reading about Bidens “unpopularity” and how so many voters don’t think he’s accomplished much, if anything. That is a clear indication of just how stupid and disengaged voters are.
Biden’s age, not his ability to govern, will be front and center, and a burden for him, and the media are likely to magnify the problem. They never miss an opportunity to dwell on every dumb statement Republicans make about Biden being senile, which he is not.
mrmoshpotato
@David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch: LOL!
Aussie Sheila
@Stuart in Austin: Yes. I thought of that. If I am right, and Biden and his team are signalling a turn from the economic orthodoxy of the last 40 years, we may well see something similar. It will depend on how well and smartly Dems campaign on these issues.
By the way, stop using the term ‘kitchen table issues’. It is infantilising and condescending. How about ‘your rights to decent life chances’? Or ‘your rights to equal opportunity’.?
Why do US liberals speak about their economic propositions as though nobody groks that ordinary people are screwed by the system just as much, if not more, than by some schmuck pushing up the price of eggs or bread?
Most people really aren’t that stupid. Trump supporters obviously are, but that is not your support base, and they are unwinnable anyway.
sab
I just finally (well written very readable but I delayed reading it) finished ready Marie Yovanavitch’s book about her career in general (very useful for anyone contemplating State Department career) and the results of Trump cronies slander and libelling of her and Mike Pompeo’s utter abnegation of any duty towards anyone he was theoretically hired to lead or protect.
My rant is a mischaracterization of her calm, sensible, informative book. But I am steaming and wishing I could spit venom. I am not a diplomat, so I can say how utterling angry I am.
SFAW
@TriassicSands: If Trump indicates he’ll run as a third-party candidate, he’ll either get bought off (by Koch, the Mercers, whomever) or will suffer a mysterious “accident.”
SFAW
@bbleh:
Maybe Smith can use a Klingon Pain Stick on DeathSantis. Maybe even before DeathSantis testifies — “pour encourager les autres” (or however it’s spelled in Gaul).
ETA: Yes, I realize DeathSantis likely had no involvement in January 6th … but can we ever truly be sure? I see the Pain Stick thing as being pro-active, just in case, etc.
TriassicSands
@SFAW:
And the plot thickens!
piratedan
@SFAW: you could be right about RD and Jan 6th, about Gaetz transporting minors across state lines (especially after the Trump sharing of the old RD pic as a teacher) makes me think that there may be some fire to go with that smoke with some involvement or knowledge. I believe that it’s still a crime to not report on a felony isn’t it?
gene108
@MobiusKlein:
Rep. Luna’s going off about things the FBI did in 2020, as if TFG wasn’t in office.
Im not sure how Republican voters hold two or more conflicting ideas in their heads. TFG is a strong man totally in charge and the FBI is a rogue agency that TFG is too weak to control.
Martin
Oh, already done, unless you think even from what I’m describing. Biden has already made a major shift from broad based neoliberal market approaches to targeted interventions in the economy in areas that reinforce policy goals. They did some of this under Obama, but now it’s much more targeted, and larger in scale.
The Biden interventions here in California during the supply chain crisis were extremely targeted – specific companies to address very specific problems. Not a ‘throw money at this market’ or ‘give this company and check and hope they do what we want’, but ‘you’re going to fix this exact thing right now, and we’ll cover your costs for only that exact thing’ with some EOs to hold the solution in place and prevent the problem from recurring. There’s no pretending there’s an invisible hand. It’s a very visible hand, and it wears aviators.
Martin
@gene108: Hey, if 9/11 could be because of Obama’s failures as president, this won’t be any trouble at all.
Brachiator
@TriassicSands:
Right now, I don’t have a good read on DeSantis. I still don’t understand why he appears to be so popular in Florida. I need to learn more about him. He comes across as sullen, mean and constipated. But he knows how to work the hot rage for heterosexual white supremacy that energizes a core of conservatives. But he already has shown some weakness. He is clearly anti-science, for example, which has worked well for him in Florida. I am not sure that this will play as well nationally.
I don’t know if Trump would run as a third party candidate if he has to put up any of his own money. But the Republicans would also have to kick Trump to the curb early in the primary cycle. He could not pull together a viable last minute campaign.
sab
@piratedan: Minors in DC need to be 18 to not be jailbait.
sab
@piratedan: Minors in DC need to be 18 to not be jailbait.
sab
@piratedan: Minors in DC need to be 18 to not be jailbait.
sab
@piratedan: Minors in DC need to be 18 to not be jailbait.
mrmoshpotato
Has the Kremlin’s orange fascist shitstain called Dense a coffeeboy yet?
Aussie Sheila
@Martin: Yes. He and his team have been incredibly adroit at signalling that the government is here to help. Now all he needs is an efficient and effective messaging machine, aimed as much at rural counties as at the Dem base, to push the message out. Every increase in rural or semi rural votes in the states needed to keep the Senate in 2024, increases the chances of success.
I really hope Biden keeps on hammering the failure of various states to expand Medicaid and holds out a promise to push it for all if the Dems keep the Senate.
Aussie Sheila
@Brachiator: All he has to do is signal to his base that he has been cheated. That should be good for 20% not to turn up to the polls. What’s not to like?
Bruce K in ATH-GR
@gene108: Orwell called it doublethink, the ability to believe two inherently contradictory concepts at the same time, and considered it essential to the survival of fascist regimes.
Princess
I don’t think Trump will run third party. I think he could be vocal about trashing whoever beats him. But I think he will be paid a lot to keep his mouth shut, and he will. He believes in nothing but money and he’ll do anything if someone offers enough.
brantl
@Brachiator: Dull and sullen are the hallmarks of the current rethug party.