Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

I like you, you’re my kind of trouble.

Second rate reporter says what?

You don’t get to peddle hatred on saturday and offer condolences on sunday.

The party of Reagan has become the party of Putin.

You cannot shame the shameless.

Republicans seem to think life begins at the candlelight dinner the night before.

“Jesus paying for the sins of everyone is an insult to those who paid for their own sins.”

I did not have this on my fuck 2022 bingo card.

Motto for the House: Flip 5 and lose none.

Russian mouthpiece, go fuck yourself.

The GOP is a fucking disgrace.

Come on, media. you have one job. start doing it.

Whoever he was, that guy was nuts.

Putting aside our relentless self-interest because the moral imperative is crystal clear.

Perhaps you mistook them for somebody who gives a damn.

When I decide to be condescending, you won’t have to dream up a fantasy about it.

Their freedom requires your slavery.

Peak wingnut was a lie.

Imperialist aggressors must be defeated, or the whole world loses.

They fucked up the fucking up of the fuckup!

If you’re pissed about Biden’s speech, he was talking about you.

Impressively dumb. Congratulations.

You are here: Home / Politics / Biden Administration in Action / Thursday Morning Open Thread: Never A Dull Moment

Thursday Morning Open Thread: Never A Dull Moment

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PSA (Coming out just in time for Halloween):

Don’t know if this ‘Edwin Castro’ actually exists, but it’s a great commercial for the CA lottery:

Reader Interactions

188Comments

  1. 1.

    Baud

    Now, 28 years later he is coming back for “a fable for grown-ups”

    He’s turning Republican economics into a comic?

  10. 10.

    JWR

    Been away from the comments all day, so maybe already old news, but I heard about this on Seth Meyers’ A Closer Look last night, and had to find it for myself, just because it was so damn crazy.

    White House Correspondents Visibly Cringe After Newsmax Reporter Asks ‘Is President Biden Woke?’ (Videos)

    Wow. Nice response from Jean-Pierre, though.

  13. 13.

    lowtechcyclist

    MAGA Republican plan: Massive tax cut for the rich. Guts Social Security & Medicare. ADDS $3 trillion to the deficit.

    Biden plan: Nobody making less than $400K pays a penny more in taxes. Protects your benefits. CUTS $2 trillion from the deficit.

    Rethugs: “But we’re the real fiscally responsible party because arglebargle debt ceiling entitlements out of control blah blah blah…”

  14. 14.

    Kay

    @JWR:

    They live and breathe “woke”. It’s not just them either- the NYTimes has a column a week on the Wokeness Threat. There’s an entire Substack genre devoted it to, along with two wildly successful and wealthy middle aged stand up comics- three if you count Bill Mahr as a comic but he’s so unfunny maybe you shouldn’t. Four if you count Roseanne Barr:

    “What is my gender? Your gender is ‘get a job’, that’s your gender’,” Barr begins in the clip, posted on Twitter. Moving on to pronouns, Barr continues: “My pronouns are: kiss my a**.”

    That pronoun joke never gets old.

  15. 15.

    Geminid

    I wonder if Ukrainian Presedent Zelenskyy will attend the Munich Security Conference. He did last year, just a few days before Russia invaded his country.

    I was impressed by Vice President Harris’s participation last year. She conducted a number of bilateral meetings with world leaders and ministers between conference sessions.

    Unlike last year, Russia and Iran are not invited. Exiled Russian billionaire Khodorofsky(sp?) and former chess champion Gary Kasparov will attend the conference.

  16. 16.

    lowtechcyclist

    @JWR:

    Wow. Nice response from Jean-Pierre, though.

    She seems to have picked up right where Jen Psaki left off.

    The basic idea is, you don’t have to answer their bullshit questions on their terms – you can take a step back, see what it’s really about, and answer the question on your own terms.

    Jean-Pierre has continued Psaki’s master class in doing just that.

  18. 18.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Baud: Instead of “E Pluribus Unum,” We have “I’m from Missouri and I will shoot you.” on our money. Unless it’s printed by the Arkansas branch of the Ozark Reserve.

  21. 21.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    I know I couldn’t do that in real time.

    One of the sweet things about debating politics online is the ability to take a few minutes to step back and think about what the other person is really saying before responding, and then come up with your best response to that.

    Jean-Pierre, and Psaki before her, don’t/didn’t have that luxury, but they can somehow do it on the spot.  Don’t ask me how.

  22. 22.

    Kay

    EPA has info posted on train derailment. 

    Hopefully they can get ahead of the conspiracy theories and nonsense being spread by (primarily) anti vaxxers.

    The Ohio EPA is entirely captured by industry (including ag industry), based on my experience doing (paid) legal work for a group opposing a CAFO, so we all should be glad there is a federal EPA and they are on scene.

  26. 26.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    The anti woke hero comics are Chappelle and Louis CK

    Barr says that kids “have no concept of reality! They’ve been living in a bubble forever!”

    Guffaw. It’s like olde timey jokes. I keep waiting for one of them to roll out “take my wife- please!”
    I can’t decide if their nutty hatred of young people is envy or real dislike. Not growing older gracefully, this group of (former) cool people!

  29. 29.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @lowtechcyclist: One of the sweet things about debating politics online is the ability to take a few minutes to step back and think about what the other person is really saying before responding, and then come up with your best response to that.

    Yeah but, who does that? Going off half cocked, is an internet tradition. Where’s the fun in taking the time to come up with one’s best response when the real fun is in pissing everybody off?

    Not that I would ever engage in such behavior. No no no, not me…

    ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)

  30. 30.

    Mai Naem mobile

    @Kay: has JD Vance had anything to say about the train derailment? All I’ve seen is the stuff from the House Rep – ofcourse a Trumper. Somebody might want to remind him TFG wanted to get rid of the EPA.

  31. 31.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    The Ohio EPA is so corrupted by industry influence it is Kafkaesque. I spent a whole summer on the case – not exclusively, but tens of hours. They sent me around in circles. Over and over. I eventually got off and I’m an obsessive, I almost never give up- I was not providing any value to the people who paid me. I made no progress at all.

    It’s designed not to work- holds no one accountable, does no oversight at all. They could shut it down and send everyone home and it would make no difference at all.

    So. Thank goodness for the federal government – Ohio isn’t the only corrupt state.

  32. 32.

    Betty Cracker

    A DeSantis attorney defined “woke” during a trial where DeSantis was sued by an elected state attorney he illegally fired and replaced with a flunky. From Tampa Bay’s local Fox affiliate, channel 13:

    During the testimony, Warren’s attorney, Jean-Jacques Cabou asked those within DeSantis’ administration what “woke” meant to them.

    The governor’s general counsel, Ryan Newman, said, in general, it means “the belief there are systemic injustices in American society and the need to address them.” He added that DeSantis doesn’t believe there are systemic injustices in the country, reports Florida Politics.

    So, that clears that up. I love how Jean-Pierre flipped it back to Repubs want to kill Social Security and Medicare, though. Way to stay on message!

  33. 33.

    Baud

    @Geminid:

    Yeah, if the propaganda is penetrating my small, closed bubble, it must be bad out there.  Thank God for the people on the Twitter front lines.

  34. 34.

    Kay

    @Mai Naem mobile:

    He put out a statement. It’s boring- pol boilerplate. His new thing is how he’s “serious” and all other pols are “unserious”. He’s fucking insufferable, like I knew he would be. Takes himself VERY seriously. Giant ego fed by all those rich dopes who told him book was a workof genuis. I’m convinced none of them read it.

  36. 36.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Baud:

    Gird your loins. 

    Got no loins at the moment.  But there’s a whole bunch of other pork in the freezer.  Will any of that do?

  37. 37.

    Ken

    @Baud: @OzarkHillbilly: Worse, lowtechcyclist wants us to think about what the other person is saying. I bet they’re one of those conversational radicals who thinks you should listen when the other person is talking, instead of using the time to plan what you’re going to say next.

  42. 42.

    Ken

    @Betty Cracker: He added that DeSantis doesn’t believe there are systemic injustices in the country

    And I’m sure all his campaign messages hew to that theme, and never, ever talk about the oppression of white Christians by the weaponized government.

  44. 44.

    Geminid

    @Baud: The critics complain, “No one is talking about this!” so Democrats respond, “Okay, let’s talk,” and then present the facts and background of the derailment and the regulatory background. This controversy actually has been very educational.

    And illuminating as well. The people using the derailment as an opportunity to bash the Democratic administration come from both the left and the right, but they freely borrow each others exaggerations and bad faith arguments..

  46. 46.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Ken: lowtechcyclist wants us to think about what the other person is saying.

    Must be some kind of libtard, I rarely bother to think about what I am saying.

    @Baud: Duhhhhh… I should have thought of that but, like I said above…

  50. 50.

    Amir Khalid

    @JWR:

    If you’ve been away from the comments all day, you may have missed John Cole’s really big news two posts down.

  51. 51.

    MisterDancer

    @Betty Cracker: I love how Jean-Pierre flipped it back to Repubs want to kill Social Security and Medicare, though. Way to stay on message!

    So true! We have a simple, elegant, message that puts the assholes on the back foot. It’s…nice.

    I keep meaning to write about the right’s long-standing usage of the Gish Gallop and related “sow chaos in the media/people’s minds”. We have to keep the discussion on a small number of critical targets, like “The Right will Defund Your Social Security,” to avoid just being another signal in the wind.

    Similar, ironically, with “woke”. The Right basically stole the term from Black and Brown folx, as usual, so it was interesting that your quote was…not a horrible definition. It’s clear the DeSantis Administration, among a lot of others, just wants to use the term to gin up the Hateorade but never explain it. It becomes an all-purpose tool to attack attack attack, but never have to defend or explain. So him saying flat-out that DeSantis disagrees with the idea of systemic injustices was more honestly — even under oath — than I expected from that flock of fucked-up seagulls.

  54. 54.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: She should open a theater in Branson, they have some vacancies there and the people who go there love those kind of jokes.  ETA – I think it’s a revelation that they can’t just have a “live and let live” attitude toward these things, logically thinking that everyone is not the same but so what. Instead, they loudly insist that everyone has to be just like them, no one can do anything that makes them the least bit uncomfortable. I mean I don’t want to have tattoos, and I still cringe when I see someone whose body is covered with them, but I don’t write angry columns insisting that everyone should stop getting tattoos because I don’t want to have them!

  55. 55.

    Kay

    Every day these multimillionaire brave antiwoke warriors with huge platforms battle the Oberlin College Student Council and yet 4 years into their crusade college students STILL won’t behave like 60 year olds.

    Some of them are too busy running from school shooters to bother with the elite antiwoke obsession, but still. Why can’t they be exactly like these people were when they were in college?

    Bill Maher
    @billmaher·Feb 4

    If you’re part of today’s woke revolution, you need to study the part of revolutions where they spin out of control.

  56. 56.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Geminid: I’ve mostly seen left people urging pressure on Pete Buttigieg and connecting it to the railroad strike. Which I think is fine–maybe he doesn’t have the authority to do anything but if the administration is smart they use it as an opportunity.

  57. 57.

    Baud

    @Kay:

    If you’re part of today’s woke revolution, you need to study the part of revolutions where they spin out of control

     

    We still haven’t recovered from the American Revolution.

  58. 58.

    Kay

    @Soprano2:

    It’s so weird to me how they talk about their kids. Her jokes are like “my fucking kids, I hate them, spoiled brats”

    Bizarre, but perhaps explains some of the bitterness and rigidity.

  59. 59.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: Actually I think they’re just old, tired jokes that have been around forever. I’m sure if you could go back 50 years you’d find that older comics were making the same kind of jokes about young people. And yeah, I’d count Maher among those people because even though he’s still liberal in several ways he’s definitely on an anti-woke crusade, and he was early on the “we should protect old people and just let it rip for everyone else when it comes to Covid” bandwagon, plus he has a phobia about fat people so he comes close to the line of saying if they die from Covid it’s their own fault. He blames a lot of Covid deaths on other conditions people had, not thinking that they were living perfectly fine with those conditions until they got Covid! It’s rare that he has anyone on who will challenge him about these attitudes head-on, either.

  61. 61.

    lowtechcyclist

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Yeah but, who does that? Going off half cocked, is an internet tradition. Where’s the fun in taking the time to come up with one’s best response when the real fun is in pissing everybody off?

    Nah, the real fun AFAIAC is cutting the ground of their argument right out from under their feet.

  62. 62.

    Soprano2

    @Geminid: It’s getting coverage on NPR, this morning they had a spot about the meeting last night and how the railroad people didn’t show up because they said they were afraid for their lives. Of course the people who live there don’t believe anyone’s assurances that it’s OK to go back home; after what happened with 9-11 and the pile, I can’t say I blame them. It certainly doesn’t sound like everything is OK yet.

  64. 64.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    They think it’s MARXISM.

    Everything is Marxism when you’re old. My 20 year old made fun of me for months because I said “work ethic” which upset me because that is actually important to me, that he work. I do not, however, believe that this is a threat to speech and modernity and all of society nor does it mean MARXISM IS ON THE MARCH like these idiot ninnies believe. I think he’s 20 and his godammned ROLE is to make fun of me and be different than me. But I like being old. I think it has huge advantages.

  65. 65.

    catclub

    @Baud:

    Gird your loins.*

    *Good advice for any occasion really.

     

    But where do you put those girders?  Around your kidneys or around your thighs? The Loin in cuts of meat is around the kidneys, along the backbone, but the thighs are also in the running for being ‘loins’.

  68. 68.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Ken:

    Worse, lowtechcyclist wants us to think about what the other person is saying. I bet they’re one of those conversational radicals who thinks you should listen when the other person is talking, instead of using the time to plan what you’re going to say next.

    Fortunately, when I’m conversing with people in meatspace (which happens a lot less frequently than it did 3+ years ago), they’re people I’ve known for a long time and either (a) take them seriously, or (b) avoid political conversations with them.  Pretty much everyone I might get into a conversation with these days has already sorted themselves into one basket or the other.

  69. 69.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: How ironic that she doesn’t have the awareness to think “If my kids are spoiled, whose fault is that?” LOL

  70. 70.

    catclub

    @Kay: ​
     

    Her jokes are like “my fucking kids, I hate them, spoiled brats”

    I guess your next question is: “So who raised these kids?”

  72. 72.

    Soprano2

    @Baud: Are you sure? Because I’ve seen many assurances on Twitter that this is exactly the reason the railroad workers wanted to strike, but that mean Biden and Congress kept them from doing it! /s/s/s/s Never mind that the strike was over sick pay….

  74. 74.

    Barbara

    @Soprano2: ​Maybe, but I always assumed the boomer generation would take being eclipsed by younger generations especially hard. Even now advertising that is geared to boomers is often premised on the idea that nobody did youth the way they did.

  75. 75.

    Betty Cracker

    @MisterDancer: Yeah, I was surprised the DeSantis attorneys didn’t have a pre-fab definition of “woke” that better matched their campaign against it.

    The governor frequently says (and his minions sell merch that says) “Florida, where woke goes to die.” So, what they’re really saying is “Florida, where the belief that systemic injustices exist and should be addressed goes to die.” Not very catchy!

  76. 76.

    Ken

    @Baud: Early indications are the train blew an axle.

    But that was only possible because the axle was weakened by the COVID vaccine, so the Jewish space lasers could cut through it.  Wake up, sheeple! No, wait, that would make you woke. Go to sleep, sheeple!

  77. 77.

    Soprano2

    @catclub: That was my very first thought!!! It’s so sad what happened to her, I loved the show Rosanne because I thought it was the most realistic portrayal of the life of a blue collar family I’d ever seen. She was really funny in that show, but serious when it counted.

  78. 78.

    kalakal

    @Kay:

    If you’re part of today’s woke revolution, you need to study the part of revolutions where they spin out of control.

    How will reading a spin dryer service manual help? The man’s a fool

  79. 79.

    Soprano2

    @Barbara: True that, it’s a generation that has been elevated by everyone literally as long as it has existed (some people say I’m part of the Boomers, but I don’t feel that way at all because my growing-up experience was in the ’70’s and completely different than theirs). I think some of them don’t like all the attention Millenials and Gen Z are getting now. People want to sell them “old people stuff” now, and it offends them!

  80. 80.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @lowtechcyclist: Yep, definitely some kinda libtard.

    walks away…

    shaking head at the delusional wokeness that people actually bother to have grounds upon which to build their arguments when in reality it’s all just spittle flecked hatred…

    ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)

  81. 81.

    kalakal

    @Ken:

     I bet they’re one of those conversational radicals who thinks you should listen when the other person is talking

    Earplugs were invented for a reason

  83. 83.

    catclub

    @Soprano2: I loved the show Rosanne because I thought it was the most realistic portrayal of the life of a blue collar family I’d ever seen.

     

    In large (emphasis large) part due to John Goodman.

  86. 86.

    Betty Cracker

    @Soprano2: It really was. I remember watching the original show and seeing the ratty crochet throw on the ratty couch and thinking wow, that looks like a regular person’s house!

  88. 88.

    MazeDancer

    My only regret over cancelling my NYTimes subscription when they hired the climate denier is that I cannot do it today.

    Running an editorial titled “In Defense of JK Rowling” at any time is repulsive. Right after the Times receives an open letter about their transphobic policies is beyond reprehensible.

    So, I am left with outrage tweeting. Hooe you send several, too. But if 180 Times writers chastising them produces this kind of response, can’t expect much.

    Other than an “N Defense of Ron Desantis” column coming soon.

  89. 89.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Amir Khalid:

    If you’ve been away from the comments all day, you may have missed John Cole’s really big news two posts down.

    Thanks for the tip! I went to bed early last night, and woke up late. By the time I got online, this thread was already up, so I missed the overnight threads.

    I think it’s a great idea – if I had gotten to this point in life unmarried and childless, I’d have probably done something similar.

  91. 91.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Kay: Oh, Bill…  “Being asked to learn about history and treat non-white people with respect and dignity means the guillotines are next!”

    A horse’s ass with his head up a horse’s ass.

  92. 92.

    jonas

    I hear Edwin Castro has used his winnings to buy a cute little two-bedroom bungalow with a view in Pacifica.

  93. 93.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Kay:

    Bill Maher
    @billmaher·Feb 4

    If you’re part of today’s woke revolution, you need to study the part of revolutions where they spin out of control.

    Yeah, we might move on to adjectives next. Oh noes!

  95. 95.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @lowtechcyclist: It’s kinda funny, it’s why my wife and I got married. We were already gonna stay together till death do us part but at one point I realized that if I died and we weren’t married my pension would just disappear. I figured that having put up with my ass for however long it might be, she’d have earned at least that much.

  97. 97.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Betty Cracker:

    “the belief there are systemic injustices in American society and the need to address them.”

    Which is pretty much correct.  The Right knows what woke means.  So does the Left.  The Right hate it, and want freedom to be bigots and that any attempt to stop them from crushing women and minorities is oppression.  It’s a complete difference in values, not confusion.

    They use the word because they think it sounds stupid and they can mock pro-equality people with it.

    @Kay:

    They think it’s MARXISM.

    Yeah, it’s Marxism that they have no fucking clue what it really means.  A vague ‘it helps people who are not me’ and that’s it.

  99. 99.

    Jeffro

    @NotMax: oh good, a guest of Tucker’s and a “critic of ESG investing”

    file under: save your time, Vivek, eighty gazillion other Rs already occupy this “lane”

  100. 100.

    jonas

    @Kay: ​
     

    Hopefully they can get ahead of the conspiracy theories and nonsense being spread by (primarily) anti vaxxers.

    Wait, wut? There’s an antivax-adjacent conspiracy theory about the train accident? The tanker car took a booster shot just before derailing?

    FFS, the mind reels.

  101. 101.

    James E Powell

    @lowtechcyclist:

    Jean-Pierre, and Psaki before her, don’t/didn’t have that luxury, but they can somehow do it on the spot.  Don’t ask me how.

    I don’t know either. They’re both amazing.

    Few things in our political media world are more useless than that press corps daily whatever they call it.

    If I had power to do so, I’d eliminate that circus. If anyone has a question, send an email and we’ll have someone get right back to you.

    TV show as governing does not work.

  102. 102.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Matt McIrvin:

    I’ve mostly seen left people urging pressure on Pete Buttigieg and connecting it to the railroad strike. Which I think is fine–maybe he doesn’t have the authority to do anything but if the administration is smart they use it as an opportunity.

    I think the best approach would be for Pete to say what the DoT is already doing, that they’re already doing everything within their statutory powers (I assume this is true), what they should have been able to step in and do to take control of the situation from the get-go, and what legislation Congress should pass to enable that.  Put the onus back on the GOP.

    Given that this is an interstate disaster at this point, between winds blowing chemicals into PA and WV and the poisoning of the Ohio River, you’d think the Federal government would already have some authority to step in, since it’s not just one state’s business.

  103. 103.

    Suzanne

    @Kay:

    “What is my gender? Your gender is ‘get a job’, that’s your gender’,” Barr begins in the clip, posted on Twitter. Moving on to pronouns, Barr continues: “My pronouns are: kiss my a**.” 

    I’m sure this is absolutely hilarious to the vital and influential over-70 demographic.

  106. 106.

    Jeffro

    @kalakal: thanks for this!

    I find it absolutely astounding that our species has done something like this.  (I felt the same way when Voyager left our solar system!)

    It helps to remember achievements like this on days when the GQP nuttery gets out of hand.  Which is most every day, obvs…

    Thanks again though!

  107. 107.

    jonas

    @Frankensteinbeck: ​
     

    Yeah, it’s Marxism that they have no fucking clue what it really means. A vague ‘it helps people who are not me’ and that’s it.

    Virtually any time I see some nutter on Twitter or somewhere saying X or Y government program, tax, etc. is “Marxism”, I want to slap one of those “Tell me you don’t know anything about Marxism without saying you don’t know anything about Marxism” tags on it.

    Meanwhile, their daddy hero Vladimir Putin recently unveiled a memorial honoring Joseph Stalin.

  108. 108.

    Ken

    @jonas: I hear Edwin Castro has used his winnings to buy a cute little two-bedroom bungalow with a view in Pacifica.

    Rookie mistake. He’ll never be able to afford the HOA fees.

  109. 109.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Kay: One of her lines in this bit is “what is a woman? A WOMAN IS MEEEEEE!!” which is inadvertently the right answer but she seems to think it’s the anti-woke refutation.

  110. 110.

    jonas

    @Kay: ​
     

    That pronoun joke never gets old.

    Let’s just start referring to Roseanne using he/him pronouns. Or even better, “it.” Because apparently you don’t get to choose your pronouns. Asshole strangers do.

  111. 111.

    Jeffro

    @Kay:

    It’s so weird to me how they talk about their kids. Her jokes are like “my fucking kids, I hate them, spoiled brats”

    I can’t imagine thinking that, much less saying it.

    My kids are young adults now, and they’re awesome, but when I see the occasional mildly disagreeable trait pop up (a little too quick to argue, a tendency to procrastinate, etc) I know exactly who they picked it up from.  Sigh.  =)

  112. 112.

    Suzanne

    @Baud: It’s amazing, the mindset.

    SuzMom is 72, and would fit right in here. Anyway, a couple of weeks ago, she was complaining about an episode of SNL (my first clue) that featured Aubrey Plaza. I did not see the episode (I watch SNL maybe once every five years), but I told he that I heard it was funny. She said, “I didn’t find it funny at all”. And I said, “Hey Mom, maybe it isn’t for you”. She sighed and said, “Things used to be for me”.

    I feel like that captures what a lot of the edgy-un-woke set need to absorb: maybe this shit is not for you. I realize that not having your needs and tastes catered to feels like a rejection. It kind of is. But, like, why would anyone expect that the world would stop changing when they turned 40?! Da hell.

  114. 114.

    cmorenc

    Alas, Biden and we democrats were one election (2016) and 70k aggregate votes short in 3 key states shy of placing a reasonable, sane majority on SCOTUS, and now we’re stuck with a majoritiy of schmuck RW ideologues and religious fanatics for at least the next decade or two.

  115. 115.

    Suzanne

    @jonas:

    Let’s just start referring to Roseanne using he/him pronouns. 

    Let’s stop referring to her at all. She’s making a pathetic and futile last plea for relevance. She isn’t relevant. She can retire and live comfortably and settle into her role as old-lady-who-yells-at-clouds.

  116. 116.

    Kay

    @Matt McIrvin:

    I read that. but the she goes on to do that tired old “women are the people who clean up after other people, such is out lot in life, we are bitter and our children are ungrateful”. My father died at 93 and he was literally more current than these people.

    I’m sorry her grown children are spoiled and won’t work and she hates them but I don’t think she should extend that assumption out to an entire generation.

  120. 120.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Suzanne:

    Let’s stop referring to her at all.

    I’m good with that.  Hadn’t thought about her for years, and will happily resume doing so.

  121. 121.

    jonas

    @Suzanne: ​
      “I used to be with ‘it’, but then they changed what ‘it’ was. Now what I’m with isn’t ‘it’ anymore and what’s ‘it’ seems weird and scary.”

  122. 122.

    Nelle

    @Kay: When my now-husband and I were talking about marriage, he said, “I’m quite frugal except for two things.  I will rent planes to fly and I sue the EPA to do its job.”  He used the FOI a lot to get info for his dissertation, which was 980 pages, with the many appendices of the info he got.  The university requested all his files for their archives.  The lawsuits died down- he turned 79 yesterday.  But in November, he was awarded a Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award for fifty years of safe flying.

    The upshot is that all the EPAs are in bed with industry to varying degrees.  We’ve got to force them to do their jobs.

  123. 123.

    Suzanne

    @Baud: I read somewhere about the idea that we don’t just live in a market economy, we live in a market society. Meaning that even vital parts of social cohesion and belonging and relationship are ordered and subject to the same forces that organize a market economy. As such, one of the ways that someone knows that they belong in society is by the existence of goods and services to fulfill one’s needs. Essentially, to have someone make an effort to get your attention and money is, in large part, part of your self-concept as a member of society. This seems like a dangerous fucken idea. And a particularly noxious and invisible form of privilege.

  125. 125.

    WereBear

    @Soprano2: some people say I’m part of the Boomers, but I don’t feel that way at all because my growing-up experience was in the ’70’s and completely different than theirs

     
    Preach it.

  126. 126.

    Baud

    @Suzanne: I’m not sure market societies are all that much different from non-market societies in that regard.  And, here, the problem doesn’t seem to be that old people can’t find a market that caters to them.  It’s that they get upset when any other part of the market caters to another group.  Even in a non-market society, you could have that sort of resentment, and that’s what’s problematic.

  127. 127.

    kalakal

     

    @Baud:

    I’ve never felt like things were for me.

    I’ve felt that way since I was a teenager in 1975 and the biggest selling single of the year was by the Bay City Rollers*

    I just learned to embrace my inner misanthrope music critic

    *In accordance with the articles of the Geneva Convention I am not linking to it

  130. 130.

    Mike in NC

    Fickle US public are tired of the war in Ukraine, per some new polls. Republican support is a deplorable 18%, but we already knew they were Putin’s puppets.

  131. 131.

    Ken

    @Suzanne: “Things used to be for me”.

    I guess she’s feeling underserved by only having twenty local radio stations that play classic rock from the 50s, 60s, and 70s, and six dozen cable and streaming channels that only show re-runs from the 50s, 60s, and 70s.

  133. 133.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    @Baud: At the gym yesterday, an old guy was talking about how “terrible” the Super Bowl halftime show was. Clearly that show wasn’t aimed at him, and that annoyed him. He couldn’t just accept that not everything had to be aimed at him

  134. 134.

    zhena gogolia

    @Suzanne: Wow, I’m not young, but I love Aubrey Plaza. She was so good in the Black Lotus sketch, I didn’t even know it was her until I read the comments!

  136. 136.

    Soprano2

    @Jeffro: critic of ESG investing

    This is another thing I don’t get. No one is telling them how to invest their money, why do they care if other people do this?

  137. 137.

    Suzanne

    @Baud:

    And, here, the problem doesn’t seem to be that old people can’t find a market that caters to them.  It’s that they get upset when any other part of the market caters to another group.  Even in a non-market society, you could have that sort of resentment, and that’s what’s problematic. 

    Right, but that’s because there’s higher status associated with certain sub-markets. And status is finite. Seeing someone else get catered to shouldn’t drive resentment, logically, but it emotionally hurts some people to realize that they’re a niche when they conceived of themselves as normative. And the inverse is also true….if you conceived of yourself as edgy and then you…..aren’t.

  138. 138.

    JMG

    @catclub: John Goodman rendered a late night talk show host (I think Letterman, but don’t bet on my memory) and myself helpless with laughter when after the host congratulated him on looking trimmer, Goodman replied “It’s kind of a wake-up call when they tell you you have to lose weight to play Babe Ruth.”

  139. 139.

    Suzanne

    @Ken:

    I guess she’s feeling underserved by only having twenty local radio stations that play classic rock from the 50s, 60s, and 70s, and six dozen cable and streaming channels that only show re-runs from the 50s, 60s, and 70s. 

    I didn’t say it was rational.

    But SNL was the ultimate Boomer thing, right? And now all those early stars, if they’re even still alive, are either gone from performance completely or playing old people. And the humor and references of the show now aren’t pertinent to the older cohort. So, when I’m being empathetic, I can understand the sense of displacement. I just also think that it’s good to recognize it for what it is and not to base any behavior off of it.

  140. 140.

    Redshift

    @lowtechcyclist:

    Rethugs: “But we’re the real fiscally responsible party because arglebargle debt ceiling entitlements out of control blah blah blah…”

    …because tax cuts never cause deficits, only spending does.

    (Really. That one goes back to the Tea Party days. It’s the Republican War on Math.)

  141. 141.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Suzanne:

     Essentially, to have someone make an effort to get your attention and money is, in large part, part of your self-concept as a member of society. This seems like a dangerous fucken idea. And a particularly noxious and invisible form of privilege.

    I’m not sure it intersects that much with privilege.  Ads will be aimed at you if you have money to spend (and we can be talking about fast-food-burger money here, which is why the overlap with privilege isn’t that great) and can be persuaded to spend it differently than you do now, or spend more of it on the stuff you already buy.

    The longer you live, the more your habits are set with respect to most spending.  So the McDonalds ads aren’t aimed at me or SuzMom or our cohort, because if we buy fast food at all, we already have well-established preferences.  They’re only going to try to sell us stuff that oldish people buy, and I’m fine with that.  I’m perfectly content about the reality that it’s been fifty years since I was young and hip.

    You know one thing that’s weird, though?  When we travel, we fly, I buy plane tickets, I rent cars, I rent vacation homes.  I would think I’d see ads for that sort of thing when I’m online, but I never do.  When I used to read a dead-trees paper, I’d always look over the airfare sale ads, and think, “maybe we should go there.” And sometimes we would.  I have no idea where those ads appear now, but I never see them.  (Yet I buy a couple pairs of jeans, and I’m briefly deluged with ads for more jeans.)

    Sure, if I already know where I want to travel to, I can compare ticket prices online and all that.  But I’m talking about ads that list a bunch of destinations, some of which might interest me but I might not have otherwise considered, and give their sale prices of round-trip fares.  I’ve got money and I’m persuadable, but I ended my subscription to the dead-trees WaPo in 2009, and haven’t seen any ads like that since.

  142. 142.

    Paul in KY

    @Suzanne: I think you’ve hit on it. As one of Stephen King’s characters says: ‘the world moves on’. I think they hate that it is a tangible reminder that they are old and ‘one day closer to death’.

  144. 144.

    Redshift

    @Suzanne: Exactly. And the lack of awareness that they’re basically doing “you damn kids, stay off my lawn” (the comics, not your mom), because they’re still famous and have an (aging) fan base.

  146. 146.

    Jeffro

    @Soprano2: because if big investment firms put most/all of their money into, say, green energy ventures, then green energy ventures will have more capital to work with, will be able to pay bigger dividends, and so on.  They’ll attract even more investment, become a bigger and more normal part of our economy and society, etc.

    Meanwhile (obviously) that investment is now not going into other, non-ESG ventures.  And those non-ESGs will have a tougher time competing, raising capital, and what not.

    It’s a huge issue and the GQP – or should I say, the GQP’s donors, like the Kochs – are trying with all their might to flex on these investment houses while they still can.

  147. 147.

    mrmoshpotato

    @jonas: LMAO!  I’ll stick with that one, because whatever dumbass “connection” that idiots are drawing between vaccines and the train derailment will make my eyes roll out of my head.

  148. 148.

    Paul in KY

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: I’m 63 and thought it was pretty damn good. Was 1st time seeing Ri Ri and she didn’t disappoint. Was impressed with her being on those platforms up over the turf. Know she was cabled in, but still impressive. I bet her agent was smoking 2 cigarettes while she was up there.

  150. 150.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Redshift:

    (Really. That one goes back to the Tea Party days. It’s the Republican War on Math.)

    It goes back at least as far as when Reagan’s 1980 campaign, and probably further – just not quite so mainstream GOP before that.

  151. 151.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Suzanne: It’s always about becoming irrelevant. They (she and her fellow travelers) used to be relevant. You know, important. Now, they aren’t and they are humiliated. It scares them, too.

    “What’s gonna happen to me now?”

  153. 153.

    lowtechcyclist

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Where do we go from here
    Now that all of the children are growin’ up?
    And how do we spend our lives
    If there’s no one to lend us a hand?

    Geez, that song is >40 years old.

  154. 154.

    CaseyL

    My Mom – a Depression era baby – once summed up the resentment perfectly: “I’m in the last generation that had to listen to their parents, and in the first generation that had to listen to their kids. No one ever had to listen to me!”

    With Boomers (and I am one), it’s all the worse because we were media darlings for so long.  We got used to being the Zeitgeist.

    But in the end, it comes back down to “No one listens to me anymore.”

  155. 155.

    kalakal

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Florida has a lot of people like that.

    Retirees who used to have responsibilities and authority. The sensible ones embrace their retirement, relax, enjoy the sun, take up new hobbies, carry on with old hobbies etc. The sad acts try to seek validation on HOAs and hassle their neighbours about planting schemes

  156. 156.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @MisterDancer: When I read that definition of “woke” my first thought was: they finally said it.  It’s really the crux of what this whole battle has always been about. Systemic Oppression has been a fact of America from the very beginning.  Most Many decent people will see that and say “we need to fix that.”  These indecent assholes realized a long time ago that it was better to simply sell the lie that Systemic Oppression doesn’t actually exist and that anyone who urges us to do something about it, that’s the REAL Oppression.  Feminism is the real Sexism.  Anti-Racism is the real Racism.  LGBTQ Rights are like Slavery for Cis/Het/Xtians Etc.

    I would actually argue that this lie is one of the central tenets of Whiteness.  When the other side talks about threats to America, Family Values, Tradition, the white majority etc., they are almost always talking about this in some fashion.  This is why they are so freaked out by 1619 Project.  NHJ (and Ibram X. Kendi in Stamped From The Beginning too) take aim at this myth on directly and expose it with decades of research and receipts.  And to paraphrase The Eagles “Jesus, people bought ’em.”  They’ve both been critically acclaimed and popular.  That’s very scary to the other side so now we are seeing the backlash.

  157. 157.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Suzanne: Also, Aubrey Plaza’s comedic style is the type that I could see a lot of people not getting or liking.  I love it (and her, omg- big time crush for years) but I could totally see her vibe not appealing to lots of people.

    You’re right.  Maybe it’s just not for me, is a very good way to look at things.  It took me years to adopt it.  The funny thing is, now that I more or less see the world and culture that way, I find that I’m open to and actually enjoy way MORE than I used to.

  158. 158.

    Ken

    I don’t recall Jack Benny, Milton Berle, Soupy Sales, or Imogene Coca getting all bitter and angry when the new generation of comics as represented by SNL took over.  Even Don Rickles didn’t complain about it in his act. Of course they all had the Dean Martin roasts to keep them employed.

    (Which reminds me of one of the nicest “celebrity secrets” I’ve ever heard. Remember how “Murder She Wrote” became something of a joke for having older, has-been actors? That’s because Angela Lansbury insisted on it – something about SAG members losing their insurance, if they don’t get any roles for a couple of years, so Angela would make a place for anyone who was on the edge…)

  159. 159.

    Xavier

    Can we have a conversation about how the US has had a national debt since 1836 and people have been predicting that it would cause the sky to fall since, well, 1837 probably and yet the sky continues not to fall, children and grandchildren continue not to be burdened, etc. etc.

    Maybe it’s time to consider the possibility that these people don’t know what they’re talking about?

  160. 160.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @kalakal: @lowtechcyclist: Myself, I have no problem with irrelevancy. I’ve always been irrelevant. Well, not really, but nothing lasts for ever and trying to hang onto the past just keeps one from living in the present.​

  161. 161.

    Citizen Alan

    @Betty Cracker: Oh for fuck’s sake. I’m certain that, if asked, 100% of antibellum slave owners would also claim that there was no systemic racism in America back in 1850 because slavery was the natural state of things and the real injustice came from the woke abolitionists.

  163. 163.

    Salty Sam

    @Soprano2:   yeah, I’d count Maher among those people …

    you wrote a lot of words describing his “humor” that can much more easily be summed up as. ”He’s a fucking asshole…”

  164. 164.

    Soprano2

    @Suzanne: I say to my husband a lot “We’re not the target audience for that” when he complains about some music or comedy we see on late night TV.

  165. 165.

    schrodingers_cat

    I have advice for the likes of Haley, Santos aide with advice for Harris on how to be more Indian and this Vivek dude. No amount of simping for RWNJs is going to make you white.

  167. 167.

    Soprano2

    @Josie: Thanks, please feel free to steal whatever you find helpful. It just boggles my mind that they care so much about what other people do in circumstances where it doesn’t matter one whit at all! Why do they want to control what every college professor in America says every minute of every day? It seems that they don’t believe in the free exchange of ideas because they know that their ideas are mostly crappy ones, so instead they want to impose them from above on all of us.

  168. 168.

    Ksmiami

    @Baud: seriously he’s a very sour, dour and pallid looking man- not sure that makes him presidential material. Plus he’s a dick so…

  169. 169.

    Soprano2

    @Baud: Yes, because trust me they are marketing things to you, but it’s not things that are “cool” or that you want to need, like assistive technology and bladder control products. They want your money, but recording artists and movie moguls don’t care about you anymore.

  170. 170.

    Citizen Alan

    @Kay: I’ve been telling bigots for years that they have no idea what the word Marxism means. They just use it as a placeholder because they can’t scream N***** or N******-lover in a public forum anymore.

  171. 171.

    Suzanne

    @lowtechcyclist:

    Ads will be aimed at you if you have money to spend (and we can be talking about fast-food-burger money here, which is why the overlap with privilege isn’t that great) and can be persuaded to spend it differently than you do now, or spend more of it on the stuff you already buy. 

    It’s not just ads. It’s any kind of media created for an audience that includes you. That’s why it is such a welcome shift to see stories told about black people’s lives, to see older women in movies not playing a grandma, visible LGBT characters and relationships. All of those are little elements that some viewers recognize and helps them feel a sense of “being seen”. That’s why I say it’s a bit of a privilege — because some people still aren’t really being seen. It isn’t a universal experience.

  172. 172.

    geg6

    @Baud:

    Newest information is that this train was overloaded and not well maintained.

    They have video of it throwing up sparks when it left a manufacturer in Salem, OH, about 20 miles before East Palestine.  I can’t find a link, but they also said it was in for maintenance recently after another, less awful incident.  They had too many cars with too many different deadly chemicals (I think it was 144 cars altogether, with over a dozen with different chemicals) and that Norfolk Southern did not alert OH or PA that a highly hazardous train with going to be passing through, something they are supposed to do in these situations.

    This is pretty much a Norfolk and Southern disaster.  Doesn’t look like DeWine and the OH DEP did a stellar job in the aftermath, along with Norfolk and Southern.  But Norfolk and Southern should be bankrupted from litigation in a just world.

  173. 173.

    Suzanne

    @Soprano2:

    Yes, because trust me they are marketing things to you, but it’s not things that are “cool” or that you want to need, like assistive technology and bladder control products. They want your money, but recording artists and movie moguls don’t care about you anymore. 

    There is also the very real issue that many brands actively do not want certain people buying their stuff. Fashion and aspirational brands are absolutely notorious for this. Like, the median American woman wears a size 16. Many fashion brands do not provide anything larger than a 14 or a 16, and the high-status brands usually top out at 12. For years, Abercrombie and Fitch didn’t sell anything larger than a 10, and they were incredibly straightforward about it was because they only wanted good-looking, cool, thin people to wear their clothes, and that anyone larger than that ruined the aspirational element of their brand. There’s a brand of trendy women’s clothes called Brandy Melville that literally only sells one size.

    The Nike ad with Colin Kaepernick was in part about driving people who are uncool away from the Nike brand. Nike actively does not want their money. Racist neckbeards wearing the Nike swoosh damages the coolness of Nike for the people that Nike wants to sell to.

  174. 174.

    Citizen Alan

    @Kay: I’ve been telling bigots for years that they have no idea what the word Marxism means. They just use it as a placeholder because they can’t scream N***** or N******-lover in a public forum anymore.

  175. 175.

    Geminid

    @lowtechcyclist: Secretary Buttegieg did put up a Twitter thread detailing regulatory steps the Department of Transportation is taking in this area, two days ago I think. I have not read it yet, just saw his lead paragragh retweeted.

    But the DoT did not step into this situation because that is the job of the EPA, while the National Transportation Safety Board will investigate causes. Buttegieg’s Department formulates regulations within the limits of laws passed by Congress. The DoT wiil take the NTSB’s report on this and other train accidents into account when prescribing stricter regulation. But Congress may need to act as well.

  176. 176.

    Citizen Alan

    @Ken: All of those comedians were funny until the day they died. Indeed, as a GenX  member, I’m not old enough to remember when they were young edgy comedians if they ever were. I am old enough to remember how effortlessly Bill Cosby transitioned from “the hip young black comedian” to “America’s dad.”

  177. 177.

    geg6

    @Soprano2:

    Same.  My older siblings are the Boomers.  Me and my younger sister are, technically, categorized as Boomers (born in 1958 and 1964, respectively) but our experiences growing up were vastly different from theirs.

  178. 178.

    sdhays

    @Betty Cracker: Me too. A lot of popular culture has always seemed weird to me, so I’m pretty ok with checking out the next change and figuring out what I like and don’t like and moving on.

    And nowadays especially, there’s so much different culture out there. You can plug into whatever you like and just be happy other people have something they also like. Why does it all have to be the same?

  179. 179.

    lowtechcyclist

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    nothing lasts for ever and trying to hang onto the past just keeps one from living in the present.​

    As Dylan said, if you’re not busy being born, you’re busy dying.

  186. 186.

    cain

    @CaseyL: I sorta relate. My parents and my grandparents age, the kids had to listen to their parents because they are senior. I don’t get the benefit of seniority anymore – hell I don’t even get called ‘uncle’ or any other ‘old people veneration’.

    I’m fine with that – I fit in with Millennials and Gen Zs like I’m one of them – not some strange old guy who should stay in their lane. I appreciate that more than some forced system of respect. I can see how that seniority works when it is an egalitarian society where things don’t change for a hundred years.

    Society is different now than it was ten years ago! I mean it’s constantly changing – even our language is not able to keep up.

  187. 187.

    Soprano2

    @Jeffro: It’s just so dumb because investment people don’t invest because they’re “woke” – even if they want to do responsible investing, they’re still trying to make money. It’s dumb to tell investment firms they can’t invest in certain industries no matter whether it makes economic sense or not.

  188. 188.

    Freemark

    @Soprano2: ​
      It wasn’t sick pay but sick DAYS that were the issue. It is highly relatable to the accident since the reason they can’t have sick days is that it would require having more than the absolute bare minimum of staff to achieve. That bare minimum, which is actually less than the bare minimum, causes equipment inspections and maintenance to be skipped or only done perfunctorily. A failed wheel bearing caused the accident.

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