Just wanted to check in and talk about a few things. First off, I got the first estimate for the new roof on home crap home, and it came in at HOLY FUCKING HELL 24000 fucking dollars. So either I am going to start selling blood, do my best Fred Garvin, or get another fucking estimate. I mean fer fucks sake the shingles are glorified tar, right?
Second, as I write this, Maxwell is downstairs with me for the first time, exploring the space for the first time. He has investigated every square inch, and it is really fun to watch. He’s so curious.
Finally, and most important, I wanted to personally thank each and every one of your for the kind and warm reception you have given to my dear friend Eddie. We’ve known each other quite a while, and I have been urging them to write about these issues for some time because I know their talent and skill at writing, honesty, and openness, and I as well as many of you have a lot to learn and a lot we don’t understand. So who better to help fill us in. As I have said for decades, my biggest skill in life is recognizing talent and getting the fuck out of their way.
And while I wasn’t worried- we’ve (the website and the community) changed a lot since the days when ABL started writing here and was treated like shit by a few, the concern still existed. So I monitored things closely on their first post and his second post today, not wanting to have to have a heavy hand in things, and was delighted by the responses.
So thank you for that, and thank you Eddie for writing here and helping us olds out.
Lol. I use they/them pronouns, John. I love you ❤️
Dude’s no EDK or Freddie DeBoer. IOW,
he wasthey were a great pick.
Great news about Max. Eddie is a good writer and a fine artist. ABL’s world has bloomed since leaving here. I think her experiences here helped her and all of us. Life is good sometimes.
Hey, it’s still cheaper than a mattress.
John Cole, please accept my sincere apologies for being such an ass in your last Maxwell post. I have no excuses.
Thank you very much for sharing your journey with him and all your furry family.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Omnes Omnibus: I miss Bernard Finel
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I didn’t mind him.
Gin & Tonic
@Omnes Omnibus: I don’t remember him.
@Gin & Tonic: He was here for maybe a month or two in the time period when Cole was trying out a bunch of people. I don’t remember much about him except for the fact that I didn’t mind him.
That’s a ridiculous bid for your roof. You can do better than that, I’m sure. Maybe if it was slate and you to replace it all, that would be reasonable, but for typical shingles that sounds super steep.
Gin & Tonic
@Omnes Omnibus: Still blanking, but I’m not going to the archives.
Hard Agree. Power Window & Roof wanted new sportscar money (~$66k) to do our roof, and that was back in ’19.
Generic roofing co put us at ~$20k.
Finally got the place beside my gym to come out, who politely told me my roof wasn’t the problem, pointed out the issue (Hanson’s failed to seal the doorwall they put in in ’11 properly), and that while they’d happily put a new roof on, we had a few years left. Also the roof would be $7,700.
@geg6: I agree. We had our house re-roofed four or five years ago and it was about half of Cole’s estimate. And the roofers had to strip and cart away two layers of shingles.
@Gin & Tonic: Don’t bother. It’s not worth it.
Yay for Maxwell! I missed their post earlier today, but planet Eddie is a great addition. And like everyone else says, before you commit that kind of money, get at least one other estimate.
I shared today’s post with the President of my motorcycle club; she was delighted and may be joining in the discussion.
Mai Naem mobile
John, it might help to have your dad or somebody who’s had a roof done before to be there during the estimate. $24K is ridiculous. The estimator might have thought you were a dumb first time homeowner he could take advantage off. I would have expected under $15K for sure and the higher end only if you needed to replace all the wood and multiple layers etc.
Mai Naem mobile
@Omnes Omnibus: who’s EDK?
I miss Sarah from Down Under. She was funny.
Lord Fartdaddy (Formerly Mumphrey, Smedley Darlington Mingobat, et al.)
I dearly miss ABL, and I know I’m hardly alone here. I wish she’d come back.
@planet eddie: WORK IN PROGRESS but I think I fixed them all
@geg6: An aluminum roof is probably cheaper than that quote, and usually lasts for a “lifetime.”
@Mai Naem mobile: Cole’s don’t climb on roofs for obvious reasons
Once more, slowly. Measure the square footage of your roof. This is a little complicated but it’s basic geometry. Not the square footage of your house, that’s irrelevant. The square footage of your roof surface. You’ll have figure out how to calculate the surface depending on hips, valleys etc but as I said, it’s just geometry, not rocket science. Once you know the surface area here are the prices, give or take maybe 20% depending where you are (Bethany/Wheeling/Pittsburgh area should be mid to low end) Asphalt/composite shingles $500/square. Metal $1,000/square. Slate (you can’t afford it, and nobody knows how to do it right anymore, but it will last forever).
Oh, a square is 10 x 10, or 100 square feet of roof surface.
I’ve held a class A contractor’s license for forty years, personally installed maybe 50 roofs, and contracted maybe 100 more.
But seriously, 24 large is ridiculous. Get more estimates.
Maybe it’s just generational but I usually just use they/them and refer to my fiancee who’s very much a woman as my SO. I don’t feel the need to get into it further in conversations with people unless there is a direct reason at which point I use names.
I don’t really see gendered pronouns used on a day to day basis (granted fancy ass consulting jobs or legal jobs) unless it’s talking about someone that everyone already knows and is in a close inner circle.
I work in IT and even before “the trans issue came up” so to speak we always refered to customers/users as they/them. If he/she came into the conversation it was always a known end user that either had a very friendly relationship to the department or an outright hostile one. There was no risk of screwing it up. And you still usually just used the name in the sense of oh “oh Christ all might XXXX is on the phone again” and moved on.
I can’t speak to all jobs but in IT this is routine and has been since the early 2000’s. If you start hearing sir or mam it’s a sure sign you’ve flustered someone and they are bolting through documents and already talking to their supervisor. I’m management now but still with the odd call and you open with “who am I talking too” and you just use that and they always vomit up a name never a pronoun.
If I’m raising hell in a department meeting I’m not going yell out I don’t care what he/she thinks, it’s going to be I don’t care what they or even you think.
While I’ve screwed up genders before I’ve done it with straight people as well. I’ve never gotten hauled to HR for it. I’ve gotten reminded over it. But I don’t see Rod Drehers “totalitarianism” coming down on all of us who just aren’t that aware when we trip and stumble. It’s all just a non issue that comes down to the same thing as screwing up someones name. They aren’t out to cost you your job. They are just out to correct you.
@danielx: 24k is reasonable if John has 20-25 squares and wants a metal roof. And 20 squares is not a particularly large roof, but until the actual roof size is calculated, everything is just a guess. IOW, tell me the size of the roof, and I’ll tell you with reasonable accuracy what it should cost.
You can always sell some ass, hell, you may end up in Congress.
West of the Rockies
You could go all Walter White, John. Money to be had that route it appears.
@Lord Fartdaddy (Formerly Mumphrey, Smedley Darlington Mingobat, et al.): It’s not the same but you can catch up with ABL on her Twitter.
@wmd: love to hear that! 🥰
Far be it from me to criticize one for doing whatever he or she needed to do to survive.
But – lauren, don’t piss and moan when your opponents react the exact same way you would if such information came into your hands.
@John Cole: Aren’t we all
@Ohio Mom: and podcast!
@HumboldtBlue: As always, it’s not the lifestyle choices she made, it’s the fact she wants to take those choices away from everyone else.
Discovery is going to be lit
Get more estimates! That seems high for your area, but there are lots of factors – are they going to have to remove the old shingles or can the new go over? I live northwest of you between Steubenville and Youngstown, my _metal_ roof cost under $12,000 five years ago. An Amish company from Millersburg, OH. I don’t know if they work in WV but they did a place outside of St. Clairsville for someone I know. World Class Roofing – looks good, no problems so far.
West of the Rockies
Wowzers. Shit’s about to get real for a certain junior high mean girl.
Any one seen any comments recently by the Thin Black Duke?
I’ve actually known Eddie for a long time in real life (not as long as Cole), and they’re good people (except they’re moving to the other Washington….grrrr…..)(but having a national career means moving around). I think it far more notable they de-lurked and starting front page posting…..talk about diving into the deep end….
Asphalt. It’s a petroleum product. Give another finger to Putin.
@HumboldtBlue: He should set up an OnlyFans but it’s just videos of the pets grooming themselves.
@gwangung: I’m directing 2 shows in Seattle, possibly 3 within the year! I specifically reached out to theaters there bc Seattle was so transformative for me. I’m really thrilled, especially about the show in the fall :)
@planet eddie: Hurrah!
Back in 2015, the non-profit I volunteered for near Seattle (an outdoor theater) needed a new roof on its outdoor shelter/BBQ area – about 1500 square feet. Going with a shingled roof would have been the cheapest, except for two things: the theater is in a wooded area and the risk of fire was fairly high; and the Board of Directors didn’t want to undertake that expenditure any time again soon. So we went for a metal roof. The cost to us was around $15K. It was a lot of cash, but we’d been saving and running special fundraisers for years. We also interviewed several contractors and compared the costs.
I read your post to my SO, who’s helped his dad replace the roof of their house (about 2000 sq ft), and he noted you could seriously reduce costs by getting a teenage kid to help you lug shingles and fix them in place, like his dad did with him. Although the last time FIL replaced the roof, he went with a contractor as SO was at work in Alaska and FIL was recovering from sepsis & a spinal aneurysm, so he laid out a hell of a lot more cash. My personal take is – get references, talk to contractors, compare bids, and figure out what’s going to hurt you the least over the longest amount of time.
We needed to get the fence around our backyard replaced.
Standard 6 foot wood fence around a small suburban lawn that takes me maybe 10 minutes to mow.
$8k. Second bid was about the same so we went ahead and paid it but yah, prices are crazy.
It is a small suburban California lawn so that might have been part of the problem.
Did a 200 square low plane roof, 50 year shingles, vents, flashing, eaves, soffits, and ice and watershield for 12k CDN all in. Get more quotes.
I’ve mentioned before that I’m involved in orienteering (although my nym is a reference to origami). Some researchers at McMasters University, one of whom is on the Canadian national team, have found that putting away your GPS and using a map and compass stimulates the hypothalamus and can delay dementia.
NBC Video shot at a competition in Arizona.
Tim in SF
Eddie is great. Two times today I found myself quoting from this Eddie post.
Mai Naem mobile
@John Cole: i get that. I was just suggesting that it might help to have your dad there as the older more experienced person in home repair who a contractor may be less likely to be screw. Kind of like a female having a male friend take in her car to a mechanic.
@Lord Fartdaddy (Formerly Mumphrey, Smedley Darlington Mingobat, et al.):
I learned a lot from ABL, including what I think was the most important lesson: Shut up and listen. Second place may, unfortunately, be watching the shit a black woman gets for saying anything, and finding out that a deluge of vastly worse had been screened out.
@jackmac: Part of getting old is dealing with the cognitive effects of inflation. That new roof cost more than my house did. Or that new car costs more than my parents six roon mansion did.
But I still think 24k is a lot for a normal looking reroofing.
I bet you were a little worried.
When I had my roof done I got five estimates. They varied wildly with the high being double the low.
I figure $11/sq foot. Without labor costs, $9/sq foot. Roofing is one place where labor costs should not be ½ the price.
Fly-by for the BlogFather:
1. Take it from an older “old”: Get at least 3 estimates.
2. If you’re gonna stay in that house, consider a metal roof. It’s anywhere from 25%-50% more expensive, but it’ll probably outlast you.
3. When roofers come, figure out what you’re gonna do about Steve and Max. My cats would hide in the azaleas outside all day until everyone left.
4. I miss ABL.
5. As cis-gendered heterosexual white male (hope I got that right, no snark intended), I enjoy Eddie’s posts. Wish we could see more LGBTQ+ voices represented throughout society, if anything, to explode the pea-sized brains of the haters who would rather pretend “other” doesn’t exist.
<back to lurk mode>
That’s an insane price to roof your house. Cost me $6900 to roof my mother’s ranch-style house in January. The realtor’s guy quoted $8800. Unless you have a 10,000 Sq ft house you can do better.
What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?
IDK what your roof is like or how big your house is but that sounds really expensive. I have a 1,700 foot cape cod with three window casements, two dormers and two peak to eve roof valleys. This is a 1943 house and they had to install soffits and a ridge vent.
So, pretty complicated roof. We sprang for the best asphalt shingles they offered which came with a 50 year warranty and the total cost was $11k in 2016. This is in the DC area where incomes are relatively high and hence getting stuff done on a house isn’t cheap.
@Honus: I replaced roof on my mother’s house in Pittsburgh for under $7000 in late 2019. Materials are now more expensive due to supply and demand issues and my mother’s roof was simple (no dormers or additions) but that still seems expensive.
I have nothing against someone being a sex worker. But like the rest of her party, she’s fighting to outlaw abortion.
I’m sure hers were the right thing to do, for reasons. But everyone who has an abortion has reasons. If abortions are legal for everyone whose reasons are as good as hers were (I’m guessing ‘a baby bump is inconvenient when it comes to doing sex work’), then abortion would be legal in general. Which is what it should be, of course, and what her history says should be the case.
You’re being overcharged for the roof. Our house in Pittsburgh, which is 3 stories and about 4300 sq ft, cost $12-$14K to replace a few years ago.
Get more estimates.
This is so totally Balloon Juice!
Old dead thread, but prices from even a couple of years ago are outdated now. Honus gave the formula contractors use to estimate, the flux is in labor costs locally.
And Planet Eddie is a wonderful addition to the front page, so thanks for inviting them and thanks to Eddie for accepting!
@Ohio Mom: Yep – in WVA??…too much, even given the prices soaring in the last couple years…get a second and third opinion…there are cheaper out there, and if they are local you can get references to make sure they are legit. When our store needed a new roof, I got estimates from a place in Cincy (50 mi down the river) for mega thousands, and the local guy did it for 10k…roof is just fine 15 yrs later…
Two years ago (during huge materials shortages) we had the old shingles removed, a little soffit work, water shield, etc. and even here in super Labor shortage and expensive Bend it was $14,000. And judging from photos, our one story house has about 1/4 more roof than your house. At the time we also got an estimate from a national, very high pressure sales firm that started at $66,000 for the exact same materials, and car salesmen style went down to $28,000 but no guarantee, which we later heard was absolutely worthless and that this company preys on people who can only afford a roof by making payments and on the uninformed elderly by scaring them.
Bottom line: there’s a huge range in roofing costs. We found the roofer that the local real estate agents use and they have done 6 on our block since ours.
In 2012 a gust of straight-line winds hit and knocked down one tree and peeled most of my shingles off on the windward side; various estimates were from $16,000 to $19,500 — fortunately the Good Neighbor has a son who does all sorts of construction work. He gave me an estimate of $12,500 for a metal roof. I was delighted, until it took almost 4 weeks to get the insurance check (had to be sent to the mortgage holder). The check that was to be overnighted to my bank got “stuck on a shelf” in the mailroom. Even though the customer support folks were shocked at the delay in getting me the money, nothing moved until I filed a BBB complaint. Magically the check arrived, and I even got a phone call from some Chase bigwig to make sure I told BBB that the complaint was resolved. The kid had a work crew of 4 other people; had a new roof in a day, although in my part of Oklahoma blue tarps are perfectly acceptable for roofs.
In 2019, my roof in Watertown was 8K to replace, including removing the old shingles. However, the distance from their office to my house was 4 blocks.
The big factors are a) squares for the roof as everyone has noted above; b) condition of underlayment (old shingles & roof sheathing) and c) distance shit has to be carted (in & out).
Last, shingles are a LOT higher this year because about all of SW Florida had to be re-roofed (my mom’s place included) because of Hurricane Ian. Which also destroyed Sanibel and Captiva and downtown Fort Myers…
Paul in KY
@Ang: IMO, you should always remove the old shingles. Let’s you see the condition of what’s under the shingles, removes excess weight from roof, etc.
Is your house the same age as the other houses in your neighborhood? If so, they probably need new roofs at the same time you do. In our neighborhood, we joined together and contacted contractors to see if we could get a better rate to do 20 roofs instead of one. We got a nice price reduction by joining up with the group plan.
Just food for thought…
Always check with your insurance if they will replace your roof. If there are signs of hail damage (etc) they will do it.
Good way to find the best roofers for price/quality is ask some local realtors who they use when they are selling a house that needs a roof.
@Nukular Biskits: I agree with all your points.