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You are here: Home / Healthcare / COVID-19 / Covid-19 Came From A Wuhan Wet Market: Looks Like We Can Blame the Raccoon Dogs

Covid-19 Came From A Wuhan Wet Market: Looks Like We Can Blame the Raccoon Dogs

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Poor tanukis!

For three years now, the debate over the origins of the coronavirus pandemic has ping-ponged between two big ideas: that SARS-CoV-2 spilled into human populations directly from a wild-animal source, and that the pathogen leaked from a lab. Through a swirl of data obfuscation by Chinese authorities and politicalization within the United States, and rampant speculation from all corners of the world, many scientists have stood by the notion that this outbreak—like most others—had purely natural roots. But that hypothesis has been missing a key piece of proof: genetic evidence from the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market in Wuhan, China, showing that the virus had infected creatures for sale there.

This week, an international team of virologists, genomicists, and evolutionary biologists may have finally found crucial data to help fill that knowledge gap. A new analysis of genetic sequences collected from the market shows that raccoon dogs being illegally sold at the venue could have been carrying and possibly shedding the virus at the end of 2019. It’s some of the strongest support yet, experts told me, that the pandemic began when SARS-CoV-2 hopped from animals into humans, rather than in an accident among scientists experimenting with viruses.

“This really strengthens the case for a natural origin,” says Seema Lakdawala, a virologist at Emory University who wasn’t involved in the research. Angela Rasmussen, a virologist involved in the research, told me, “This is a really strong indication that animals at the market were infected. There’s really no other explanation that makes any sense.”

The findings won’t fully silence the entrenched voices on either side of the origins debate. But the new analysis may offer some of the clearest and most compelling evidence that the world will ever get in support of an animal origin for the virus that, in just over three years, has killed nearly 7 million people worldwide.

The genetic sequences were pulled out of swabs taken in and near market stalls around the pandemic’s start. They represent the first bits of raw data that researchers outside of China’s academic institutions and their direct collaborators have had access to. Late last week, the data were quietly posted by researchers affiliated with the country’s Center for Disease Control and Prevention, on an open-access genomic database called GISAID. By almost pure happenstance, scientists in Europe, North America, and Australia spotted the sequences, downloaded them, and began an analysis.

The samples were already known to be positive for the coronavirus, and had been scrutinized before by the same group of Chinese researchers who uploaded the data to GISAID. But that prior analysis, released as a preprint publication in February 2022, asserted that “no animal host of SARS-CoV-2 can be deduced.” Any motes of coronavirus at the market, the study suggested, had most likely been chauffeured in by infected humans, rather than wild creatures for sale.

The new analysis, led by Kristian Andersen, Edward Holmes, and Michael Worobey—three prominent researchers who have been looking into the virus’s roots—shows that that may not be the case. Within about half a day of downloading the data from GISAID, the trio and their collaborators discovered that several market samples that tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 were also coming back chock-full of animal genetic material—much of which was a match for the common raccoon dog. Because of how the samples were gathered, and because viruses can’t persist by themselves in the environment, the scientists think that their findings could indicate the presence of a coronavirus-infected raccoon dog in the spots where the swabs were taken. Unlike many of the other points of discussion that have been volleyed about in the origins debate, the genetic data are “tangible,” Alex Crits-Christoph, a computational biologist and one of the scientists who worked on the new analysis, told me. “And this is the species that everyone has been talking about.”…

On Tuesday, the researchers presented their findings at a hastily scheduled meeting of the World Health Organization’s Scientific Advisory Group for the Origins of Novel Pathogens, which was also attended by several of the Chinese researchers responsible for the original analysis, according to multiple researchers who were not present but were briefed about it before and after by multiple people who were there. Shortly after the meeting, the Chinese team’s preprint went into review at a Nature Research journal—suggesting that a new version was being prepared for publication. (I reached out to the WHO for comment and will update this story when I have more information.)…

Much more information at the link, of course!

Someone on twitter pointed out that approximately 60% of Americans believe in angels — probably with a strong overlap:

Reader Interactions

169Comments

  1. 1.

    Steve in the ATL

    I remember my kids watching CatDog on Nickelodeon but they must have aged out before RaccoonDog aired.

  2. 2.

    Ohio Mom

    Never heard of a racoon dog before. A quick google tells me they are related to foxes.

  4. 4.

    raven

    There was a woman around the corner with a cat that would come off her porch and attack dogs. She had a painting on her mailbox of “the were-cat”!

  6. 6.

    Lacuna Synecdoche

    The Atlantic via Anne Laurie @ Top:

    The findings won’t fully silence the entrenched voices on either side of the origins debate.

    The both-siderism just never ends. Why, Atlantic, why should these finding silence the “entrenched” voices advocating that Covid has natural origins when the findings support their conclusions?

    They just can’t stop framing even the most egregious lies as equally valid as the truth.​ It’s like an addiction.

  9. 9.

    Baud

    I can’t believe it’s 2023 and I’m still learning about the existence of mammal species for the first time.

  11. 11.

    Lapassionara

    Dougj had a genius tweet this morning, making fun of Nate Silver’s “explanation” for why people tend to believe the lab leak theory. I’m not skilled enough to provide a link. Mea culpa.

  15. 15.

    Steeplejack

    @Lapassionara:

    This is how I feel about the moon landing. Intuitively, with no knowledge of science or engineering, it seems like people couldn’t really land a rocket ship on something that far away. That gives the theory that the moon landing was faked some credence in my book.

    — New York Times Pitchbot (@DougJBalloon) March 16, 2023

  17. 17.

    Steeplejack

    @Baud:

    That’s a follow-up to the real killer, which was yesterday (and includes Silver’s boneheaded comment). See at #15.

  18. 18.

    Lacuna Synecdoche

    @WaterGirl: ​

    Your nym doesn’t look right, maybe that’s why it went into moderation?

    Shit, it’s a typo. Can you fix it, Watergirl, if it’s not asking too much?

    I’m using a Linux Flathub package (distro default, not my choice) for Firefox, and every time it updates I have to fill in my logins again – thus the typo. It’s a pain in the ass.

    Anyway, I’ve fixed it on my end (thanks for the heads up), but the previous comment has timed out for changes.

  22. 22.

    Anoniminous

    The “debate” (sic) “ping-ponged between SARS-CoV-2 spilled into human populations directly from a wild-animal source, and that the pathogen leaked from a lab” because the vast majority of Americans are pig-ignorant when it comes to Biology and should sit down and STFU when it comes to Molecular Biology and Genetics.

  28. 28.

    different-church-lady

    @Anoniminous:

    The “debate” (sic) “ping-ponged between SARS-CoV-2 spilled into human populations directly from a wild-animal source, and that the pathogen leaked from a lab” because the vast majority of Americans are pig-ignorant when it comes to Biology racist and xenophobic and should sit down and STFU when it comes to Molecular Biology and Genetics everything.

  33. 33.

    bbleh

    So we now have PROOF that the Bill Gates – George Soros – Big Pharma – Big Tech – JYna – One World Socialist Government conspiracy has got to the so-called “scientists.”  Probably bought them off with grants or something.

  34. 34.

    JoyceH

    Um – “looks like we can blame the raccoon dogs” – shouldn’t that be “looks like we can blame the people who eat raccoon dogs”?

    As for the famous ‘lab leak origin’ controversy, what I find interesting is that there has never been an actual recorded case of a pandemic originating in a lab leak (there have been outbreaks from lab leaks, but they were all small and quickly contained). The 1918 pandemic started with pigs in Kansas.

    And yet – virtually every fictional story of a global epidemic (usually resulting in fall of civilization) starts with a lab leak. I suspect that’s why so many people are drawn to the lab leak theory – they’ve seen it so many times before! But hey guys, writers don’t do that because it’s more plausible, they do it because it’s more dramatic! Huge problems caused by human frailty and hubris are just intrinsically more interesting than random amorphous forces of nature. But it’s those random amorphous forces of nature that you really need to watch out for.

  36. 36.

    bbleh

    @JoyceH: IIRC there was a scary “almost” though: Ebola Reston.

    And another important factor is, there is simply multiple orders of magnitude more contact between humans and other animals in all sorts of settings than there are novel pathogens sitting around in labs.  The opportunities for a disease to get loose in humans via those other means massively outweigh those via infection in a lab.

  37. 37.

    TriassicSands

    @different-church-lady:

    Bats are mammals, but they are also birds. Therefore, both birds and mammals exist.

    Bats are birds. It says so in the Bible. And as a church-lady, different or not, you should know that. (Leviticus 11:13-19)

    So, please don’t eat any bats.

  38. 38.

    Dangerman

    @Lacuan Synecdoche: The findings won’t fully silence the entrenched voices on either side of the origins debate.

    Nope. We’re nearly 60 years into the JFK thing and it’s still being argued about (my belief, Oswald 100% shot from the window, didn’t hit Kennedy once, i.e., part of a conspiracy) …

    … and even longer since Amelia Earhart disappeared (although that one is really close to being definitively proven as she probably landed on what was then known as Gardner Island and don’t even think of asking me to spell the Islands name now and if that topic interests you, you can read about it here: some either really smart people or complete cranks, just like me)

    ETA: Kennesaw State?

  39. 39.

    Lapassionara

    @Baud: it was in the same thread. This tweet was a follow-up to the one that eviserated Nate’s reasoning.

  44. 44.

    TriassicSands

    @Baud: Birds aren’t real.

    Oh, you poor thing. Of course they are real. And they’re bats. That is, bats are birds. I already, I hope, straightened out the different church-lady on that score.

    And by infallible logic:

    Bats are birds.

    Bats exist.

    Therefore, birds exist and they caused the outbreak of SARS-CoV-2 in Wuhan. And, i guess that means that bats are also raccoon dogs, which means raccoon dogs are birds. Whew!

    You need to watch more nature videos.

  45. 45.

    MazeDancer

    Never heard of Raccoon Dogs and when read about them on Twitter, was too afraid to search it because heaven knows the horrors one would see.

    So, thanks for the pic. Which does look like a Pomeranian had a wild night with a Raccoon.

  47. 47.

    Kelly

    @raven: When I was child the neighbor’s German Shepard stayed well clear of our black momma cat. When we first moved there Mom saw him in our yard heading for our cat she raced outside to save her. By then Momma cat was riding the German Shepard teeth sunk into an ear.

  48. 48.

    smith

    @JoyceH: Huge problems caused by human frailty and hubris are just intrinsically more interesting than random amorphous forces of nature.

    Also because if it’s human-caused you have somebody to blame. A lot of people can’t deal with the idea of a catastrophe with no one to blame. Randomness is just too scary.

  49. 49.

    Lapassionara

    @Baud: One of my favorites, except that he may have stopped visiting Twitter, given the change in ownership. I haven’t seen anything from “Birds aren’t real” in a while. But you have to agree, intuitively, it makes perfect sense that the government would be using fake birds to spy on us, right? Now where is that snark font?

  51. 51.

    Wapiti

    @Old School: DougJ: Isn’t it possible that the Chinese raccoon dogs contracted COVID from the Wuhan lab?

    I can’t believe that none of you jackals have seen Pom Poko, the documentary about raccoon dogs who have the ability to shape-shift and pose as humans. It makes total sense that one or more raccoon dogs worked, in their human form, in the Wuhan lab.

  52. 52.

    TriassicSands

    @JoyceH:

    Check out fruit bats. They’re huge. Six, seven hundred pounds. At least. Okay, only about 3.2 pounds. Wingspan 5.6 feet.

    Look up “megabat” in Wikipedia.

  54. 54.

    brantl

    I think most of the conspiracy pinheads think Lab Leak means Military Lab Leak, as in this was an experimental weapon, that got out of a lab due to accidental contamination, BEFORE THEY WERE READY TO RELEASE IT.

  58. 58.

    Another Scott

    I’ve apparently used up my free TheAtlantic views and am about to head out the door.

    I’m not sure why this is blowing up as news now.

    E.g. Nature Briefing (8 page PDF from February 2022):

    In one [paper], the team zeroed in on the southwestern section of the Huanan market, where live animals were sold as recently as 2019, as being the potential epicentre of the outbreak. The researchers arrived at this conclusion by compiling information on the first known COVID-19 cases in China, as reported by various sources, including the WHO investigation, newspaper articles, and audio and video recordings of doctors and patients in Wuhan. This geospatial analysis found that 156 cases that occurred in December 2019 clustered tightly around the market, with cases gradually becoming more dispersed across Wuhan during January and February 2020.

    The authors also examined the locations of the positive samples collected in the market, as reported in the WHO study, and fleshed out information about the potential surroundings of these spots by collecting business registration information, photographs of the market before it closed and scientific reports that have emerged since the WHO’s investigation. For example, one paper published last year documented some 47,000 animals — including 31 protected species — sold in Wuhan markets between 2017 and 2019.

    One major finding reported by Andersen and colleagues is the mapping of five positive samples from the market to a single stall that sold live animals, and, more specifically, to a metal cage, to carts used to move animals and to a machine used to remove birds’ feathers . One of the report’s co-authors, virologist Eddie Holmes at the University of Sydney in Australia, had been to this stall in 2014 and snapped photographs — included in this study — of a live raccoon dog in a metal cage, stacked above crates of poultry, with the whole assembly sitting on top of sewer drains. Notably, in the study by researchers at the China CDC, sewage at the market tested positive for SARS-CoV-2.

    In a second report , Andersen and his colleagues concluded that, genetically, lineage A and lineage B of SARS-CoV-2 are too different from one another for one to have evolved into the other quickly in humans. Therefore, they suggest that the coronavirus must have evolved in non-human animals and that the two lineages spread to humans separately. For a few reasons, including the fact that lineage B was much more prevalent in January 2020, the authors suggest that it spilled over into humans before lineage A. Other outbreaks of coronaviruses, such as the SARS and Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS) epidemics, also resulted from repeated introductions from wildlife, the paper notes.

    Taking all of the new data together, and adding a degree of speculation, Andersen suggests that raccoon dogs could have been infected on a farm that then sold the animals at the markets in Wuhan in November or December 2019, and that the virus might have jumped to people handling them or to buyers. On at least two occasions, those infections could have spread from an index case to other people, he says.

    It’s good it’s getting increased confirmation and that it’s pushing back on the stupid alternative “theory” (which isn’t a theory).

    Thanks.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  60. 60.

    artem1s

    most of gun toting red state population, “you have to pry my lib-killing raccoon dog out of my cold dead hands!” in 3, 2, 1…

  66. 66.

    Gin & Tonic

    OT, but that Xavier – Kennesaw State game was a real nail-biter. Too bad for the GA kids.

  67. 67.

    azlib

    @JoyceH: The movie “Contagion” did a pretty good job dramatizing what a really bad pandemic looks like and it began with bats. Of course the mortality rate of that virus was arouns 20-30%.  And the movie even killed of some of the stars. It even talked about R0 values. Much more sobering than “Outbreak” which of course started because of the evil military doing biological weapons research,.

  69. 69.

    gratuitous

    I can see why China would want to hide away evidence of zoonotic transfer, especially when it exposes their trafficking in animals. But in doing that, they give life to the “lab leak” postulate. Looked at from a different perspective, if the lab leak conjecture was true, why wouldn’t China tell the world to back off or they’d unleash another even more lethal virus? The whole point of synthesizing a doomsday virus is lost if nobody knows about it (h/t Dr. Strangelove).

  70. 70.

    Brachiator

    A new analysis of genetic samples from China appears to link the pandemic’s origin to raccoon dogs.

    Wait. Not Hunter Biden’s laptop?

  71. 71.

    Anoniminous

    @WaterGirl: ​

    I think you are all fixed, everywhere.

    “All Fixed, Everywhere” Soon to be a major motion picture starring Stephanie Hsu and Ke Huy Qua

  72. 72.

    Dan B

    @TriassicSands:  Don’t eat bats and… Don’t eat skunks, at least not in Canadia.  Eight dead skunks in Vancouver were found to have bird flu

    I’ve seen the skunks in Stanley Park.  People feed them.

  73. 73.

    Jeffro

    I don’t know or care whether it came from a lab leak or a raccoon dog.

    What I do know is that

    • things like this are going to keep happening, with increasing frequency, since we seem to have learned next to nothing (and since a significant minority of our fellow citizens refuse to take even the simplest measures to dampen or end a pandemic.)
    • the pandemic response in this country was completely, murderously botched by a bunch of malicious clowns who thought they could let it rip through ‘blue’ cities and not get hit with it themselves (medically OR electorally)

    Raccoon dogs, lab leaks…none of that really matters.

  74. 74.

    Feathers

    @Wapiti:

    @Steeplejack:

    I was just about to post about Pom Poko! Apparently, tanuki or Japanese raccoon dogs, are a closely related, but different species. Like foxes, they are mythical shapeshifters in Japanese folklore. They are more malevolent than foxes, with emphasis on their large testicles, which they use as drums and to fly. Can’t wait for the conspiracy theorists to get going on this, although I don’t know if the mainland raccoon dogs are supposed to be magic as well.

    Even without this sudden newsworthiness, Pom Poko is worth watching. It’s one of the non-Miyazaki Ghibli films and is a bit harsher. It’s an eco-fable about a group of raccoon dogs who decide to fight back when developers come to destroy their dens to build human houses. Disney wasn’t allowed to cut anything, so the raccoon dogs still kill some of the construction workers. And fly around via their magical testicles.

  75. 75.

    Jinchi

    Americans now believe Covid-19 was a lab leak by 64% to 22% margin over natural transmission

    That probably has something to do with the media printing major headlines that the DOE considered the ‘lab leak’ was the most likely scenario, while low balling the point that it was a ‘low-confidence’ assessment disputed by multiple other agencies and research groups.

  77. 77.

    JoyceH

    @gratuitous: ​
     

    I can see why China would want to hide away evidence of zoonotic transfer, especially when it exposes their trafficking in animals. But in doing that, they give life to the “lab leak” postulate.

    I think it’s a status thing. The wet markets make them appear backward, old-fashioned, superstitious, etc. Whereas, a lab leak is at least modern, all white suits and gleaming stainless steel.

  79. 79.

    patrick II

    This pretty much makes moot the Depart of Energy’s report that it was plausible for the virus to have originated in the Wuhan lab.  I have wondered what data that falls under the DOE purvue that would cause them to even voice an opinion — energy usage in foreign labs?  Late-night lights?  Lack of solar rooftop panels on Wuhan lab indicates high COVID rate?
    I don’t think there is going to be an aggressive DOE rebuttal to the latest DNA-based evidence that is dependent on whatever data DOE looks at.​

    I searched for “DOE” and “energy” before this comment. There weren’t any, but Jinchi at #75 already mentioned it.

  80. 80.

    Betty Cracker

    Speaking of Hunter Biden’s laptop (#70), I read somewhere that HB’s lawyers are getting aggressive in a countersuit (or counter-filing) with the laptop repairman who allegedly seized it as unclaimed property, accessed the data and gave the contents to Rudy Giuliani and the FBI.

    I’ve wondered about that because while it’s probably legal to seize abandoned hardware if the owner doesn’t pay the bill and/or reclaim it, does that mean they are entitled to all the data they can access from it too? That seems wrong.

    I don’t care how much of a hot mess they are, no one deserves to wake up one day to find that the entire world can rummage around in their digital underwear drawer like that. It’s horrifying, and the implications of allowing that to happen are far reaching. I hope they sue the laptop repairman from hell to the ground.

  82. 82.

    Mallard Filmore

    @Lapassionara: 

    I’m not skilled enough to provide a link.

    Simply copy the link text and paste it “bare”. Modern browsers will turn bare strings that looks like a link into clickable text.

  88. 88.

    Baud

    @JoyceH:

    I think it’s a status thing. The wet markets make them appear backward, old-fashioned, superstitious, etc. Whereas, a lab leak is at least modern, all white suits and gleaming stainless steel.

    I can see that.  I would hide Republicans for the same reason if I could.

  90. 90.

    Obvious Russian Troll

    @Jinchi:

    I thought Zelenskyy personally injected the raccoon dogs with the virus designed in Ukrainian biolabs and set them loose in the Wuhan wet market. Although I guess he could have delegated that to Hunter Biden.

  92. 92.

    different-church-lady

    @JoyceH: But MAGAs would rather it be a bunch of primitive white-lab fuckups. Then they get to simultaneously do evil, incompetent foreigners, backwards easterners, and you-can’t-trust-science.

  94. 94.

    different-church-lady

    @Obvious Russian Troll:

    I thought Zelenskyy personally injected the raccoon dogs with the virus designed in Ukrainian biolabs and set them loose in the Wuhan wet market

    …at the request of Hunter Biden!

  95. 95.

    different-church-lady

    @NotMax: ​
      Hey, I do my own, and I gotta say, I totally believe ticking the wrong box on form 4562 could open a portal to Hell.

  98. 98.

    UncleEbeneezer

    “You mean ‘Now we can blame CHINESE Raccoon Dogs!!1!'” — Wingnuts, asap

  100. 100.

    Betty Cracker

    From WaPo:

    Federal officials cannot find two gifts received by President Donald Trump and his family from foreign nations, including a life-size painting of Trump from the president of El Salvador and golf clubs from the Japanese prime minister, according to a new report from House Democrats.

    LOL! I wonder who would steal those particular items?

  101. 101.

    Ruckus

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    I live in an adult complex – over 55, and we get ambulances/fire dept here all the time. I know, I rode away in one once. First time in my life inside one. It is weird being strapped down on a gurney.

    If there are a lot of old geezers in your building/complex I would expect a fair number of ambulance arrivals a year. There are 144 units here and I’d say on average we get at least 1 or 2 ambulances a month showing up. The oldest person here is 96. She is a tough one, still races around on her electric. There are a number of over 90 people.

  104. 104.

    UncleEbeneezer

    Trump attorney ordered to testify before grand jury investigating former president

    CNN — In a monumental ruling Friday, a federal judge ordered Donald Trump attorney Evan Corcoran to provide additional testimony as part of an investigation into the former president’s handling of classified documents, a source familiar with the matter told CNN.

    Corcoran has the potential to become one of the most crucial witnesses in special counsel Jack Smith’s criminal investigation into possible mishandling of classified records after the Trump presidency and obstruction of justice.

    District Judge Beryl Howell said in an order under seal that Justice Department prosecutors have met the threshold for the crime-fraud exception for Corcoran, the source said.

  111. 111.

    Mike in NC

    @HumboldtBlue:  Holy crap! We loved that guy in Fringe and everything else he did. How does somebody die of ‘natural causes’ at a mere 60 years old?

  112. 112.

    Scout211

    @UncleEbeneezer: District Judge Beryl Howell said in an order under seal that Justice Department prosecutors have met the threshold for the crime-fraud exception for Corcoran, the source said.

    I like the sound of that.

  113. 113.

    Roger Moore

    @MazeDancer:

    Never heard of Raccoon Dogs and when read about them on Twitter, was too afraid to search it because heaven knows the horrors one would see.

    They’re also frequently called tanuki, which is the Japanese name for them.  They’re important figures in Japanese folklore, where they’re seen as shape-shifting tricksters.  The Studio Ghibli movie Pom Poko is about tanuki.

  115. 115.

    Roger Moore

    @brantl:

    I think most of the conspiracy pinheads think Lab Leak means Military Lab Leak

    The people who push the lab leak theory are often deliberately vague about what exactly they mean.  It’s a classic motte and bailey equivocation.  They strongly imply that lab leak means an engineered virus, but when they’re pushed on it, they’ll deny saying that and say they only mean some virus under study at the lab was leaked.

  117. 117.

    Another Scott

    @UncleEbeneezer:

    Judge Howell has had TFG’s lawyers’ numbers for a while. LawAndCrime.com (from 2019):

    […]

    Legal experts were quick to comment on the pride before the fall here.

    “This was always why the Cipollone letter was so short-sighted,” noted University of Texas Law Professor Steve Vladeck. “For courts that historically prefer to sit back and let the political branches reach their own accommodations, a categorical rejection from the White House ratchets up the case for (expeditious) judicial resolution.”

    Former federal prosecutor Renato Mariotti said the letter wasn’t even a serious attempt to dissuade eventual judicial arbiters.

    “The Cipollone letter, on its face, placed Trump above the law and said that the Constitution did not apply to him,” Marioitti remarked. “It was never going to convince any court. It was best understood as a stall tactic. Time is starting to run out.”

    Others said the arguments in that letter were destined to fail.

    “When Cipollone wrote the memo, I called it the ‘crayon memo’ because of its bad lawyering,” commented former acting U.S. Solicitor General Neal Katyal. “It wasn’t just a comically unpersuasive document, it was flatly at odds with our constitutional order. And it was obstruction-ey to boot. These judicial decisions are inevitable. ”

    […]

    Patsy Baloney testified before a grand jury in December.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  118. 118.

    Jay

    @Dan B:

    we don’t have skunks here, we have fart squirrels.

    They suspect that the skunks got and died from avian flu, from eating birds that had died from bird flu. We still have a major outbreak here, both in the wild and in the poultry farms, there are concerns that it will evolve a strain targetting humans.

    Chicken and eggs arn’t cheap here because the Fraser Valley farms lost over 1 million birds in the floods, and are losing so far another million to avian flu.*

    *not all to the flu, if it’s found on the farm, the flock is eradicated.

  119. 119.

    Roger Moore

    @Feathers:

    It’s one of the non-Miyazaki Ghibli films and is a bit harsher.

    If you want a genuinely dark Ghibli film, try Grave of the Fireflies.  It’s brutal, probably the saddest movie I’ve ever seen.  It’s apparently based on a semi-autobiographical book, with the major difference being that the main character [spoilers] dies of starvation, which the author clearly didn’t do.

  124. 124.

    Roger Moore

    @Alison Rose:

    The wording almost makes it sound like it was the president of El Salvador who painted the portrait, which would be extra weird and I kinda wish it were true.

    We have a former president who took up portrait painting as a hobby after retiring.  It’s not that crazy to imagine a president who painted portraits while still in office.

  125. 125.

    matt

    looking forward to retractions from the substack shits who really promoted the hell out of the Republican conspiracy theory. lol, as if.

  129. 129.

    HumboldtBlue

    @Roger Moore:

    It’s a classic motte and bailey equivocation

    I’ve never seen that phrase before. I know what a motte and bailey are, just didn’t know they had an equivocation.

  130. 130.

    Alison Rose

    @Roger Moore: I’m aware. It’s not the idea of a president painting as a hobby that I think would be weird. If Bush painted a life-size portrait of Tony Blair and gave it to him as a gift, that would be weird. Thus I was joking that while the gift to TFG was odd enough, it would be even more so if it were done by the giver.

  132. 132.

    Raoul Paste

    So most Americans believe the wrong thing about how Covid started.   And I recall a time when 2/3 of the public thought, Saddam Hussein had a hand in 9/11.

    Canadian Dan Aykroyd has said  “What the American people don’t know is what makes them the American people“

  135. 135.

    Roger Moore

    @HumboldtBlue:

    I know what a motte and bailey are, just didn’t know they had an equivocation.

    People have started to talk about “motte and bailey” as a fallacy; it’s a category of equivocation.  The idea is to use an idea that can be used two ways: a defensible but unfavored way (the bailey) and an indefensible but favored way (the motte).  They present the idea without specifying how they want it understood in the hope people will understand it in the indefensible way.  If they’re challenged, though, they can claim they only meant it in the defensible way.  I hope it’s obvious how this applies to discussion of lab leaks.

  138. 138.

    Dan B

    @Jay: You’ve got all the fun: floods, avian/skunks flu, murder Hornets!

    It occurred to me that if skunks can get it we’re just another mammal.

  139. 139.

    Alison Rose

    @Steeplejack: We don’t deserve Keanu. Just minutes ago, my friend shared a pic of an old tweet from Jameela Jamil that said “Nobody matters. It’s only important how you feel about yourself, and how Keanu Reeves would feel about you if he met you.” Accurate.

  140. 140.

    UncleEbeneezer

    SOOO glad to see Mary McCord just school @NicolleDWallace on the fact that her not knowing what DOJ was doing prior to Jack Smith’s appointment as special counsel is not in any way proof that DOJ’s investigation into Trump only began when Smith came on board. @DeadlineWH

  143. 143.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @UncleEbeneezer: It’s weird how Wallace is obsessed with the DoJ’s investigation but has completely memory-holed things like Jeffrey Clarke whining about his house being raided while he was standing outside his house in underwear, and gets almost no pushback from her panelists. I heard her make a reference today to “tension” between her and Katyal. Something similar happened with Harry Littman a few weeks ago. I half suspect she blackballs people who challenge her Do-Something!-ism wrt to Garland.

  144. 144.

    SFBayAreaGal

    @BenCisco 🇺🇸🎖️🖥️♦️: I loved watching and listening to him. 60 is way too young.

  149. 149.

    Scout211

    @WaterGirl:  Yes, there is a new chief judge in that district. She served her 7 years as the chief judge.

    WASHINGTON — A new judge takes over leadership of the U.S. trial court in Washington on Friday, inheriting oversight of secret proceedings involving special counsel criminal investigations into former President Donald Trump’s retention of classified documents and efforts by him and his allies to undo his 2020 election loss.
    James “Jeb” Boasberg becomes chief judge of the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia, replacing Judge Beryl Howell as her seven-year term comes to an end.

    The chief judge has sole discretion over sealed federal grand jury proceedings. That means Boasberg will immediately take over responsibility for handling certain issues that may arise in the special counsel investigations involving Trump, who in November announced he was seeking the 2024 Republican presidential nomination.

  151. 151.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    AMSTERDAM, March 17 (Reuters) – The International Criminal Court (ICC) issued an arrest warrant on Friday against Russian President Vladimir Putin, accusing him of the war crime of illegally deporting hundreds of children from Ukraine.

    Red light district just got real

  153. 153.

    Roger Moore

    @Scout211:

    Judge Boasberg looks like he’s mostly dedicated to doing a good job as judge, without strong political overtones.  He was first appointed to the Superior Court by W, then to the District Court by Obama, so he doesn’t seem like he’s a creature of either party.  His notable rulings seem to be more about following the law rather than grinding an ideological axe.

  154. 154.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Speaking of the DoJ, judges and traitors, this twitter feed is fascinating. So many freaks, like the tambourine lady, who was found guilty on all counts. She’s an ex-cop

    this one enlisted in the Air Force after 1/6

    Ryan J. Reilly @ryanjreilly 2h
    The judge cut Bilyard a break, departing downward from the sentencing guidelines, and sentenced him to 40 months in federal prison.
    “THAT’S NOT RIGHT,” his mom cried out. She had to leave the courtroom in tears.
    “You make your bed, you’ve gotta lie in it,” judge said.

    three plus years, and this kid (20) pleaded guilty. Judge Walton don’t fuck around.

    and it looks like this guy flipped on his playmates

    Ryan J. Reilly @ryanjreilly 2h
    SCOOP: Domestic terror defendant Sam Lazar, who urged fellow Jan. 6 rioters to steal cops guns, appeared at a secret court hearing today.
    #FacePaintBlowhard appears to have been very helpful to feds. His family told people it was a sentencing hearing.

    he put on camo make-up like he’d seen in the movies.

  158. 158.

    Geminid

    Maybe someone has commented on this already, but there has been a flurry of reports this afternoon that federal and local law enforcement are starting to prepare for an unspecified event in Manhattan next week. Speculation is that there will be a very high profile arraignment, of the former President.

  159. 159.

    LauraToo

    I dropped in to thank you Anne Laurie, you have kept me informed throughout the pandemic. I really would have been lost without your posts and this community. I can’t imagine the work involved in curating your posts. I am so grateful to you!

  166. 166.

    Matt McIrvin

    @HumboldtBlue: It’s a kind of excessively obscure metaphor for the kind of two-faced argument where you really want to imply something very expansive and less defensible (the bailey), but when pressed you retreat to claiming something much narrower and more defensible (the motte).

  169. 169.

    YY_Sima Qian

    It is quite simple why the CCP would rather let the lab leak CT fester around the world than releasing data that would point to zoonotic origin w/in China:

    1) A lot of the people (including politicians) choosing to believe the lab leak theory will not be persuaded by evidence, for many of the politicians it is a deliberate choice not to look at the evidence

    2) A zoonotic spill over helped by the illicit “wild animal” (though most of them are actually farmed) trade & unsanitary conditions at a wet market is still deeply embarrassing to the regime; that is why the regime is so invested in suggesting that COVID-19 emerged outside of China, against all evidence

    3) When people in China hear accusations about lab leak, the vast majority will brush it off as bad faith hysteria or paranoia; if they hear accusations of improperly enforced regulations on wild animal trade and wet markets, most will nod & think the Chinese government screwed up

    4) lab leak CT getting so much play serves the interest of the regime, since it deflects attention away from its actual failures, & allows it to discredit all foreign criticism to the domestic population

    The primary & often the only fundamental motivation for the CCP regime is staying power & ensure popular support is not eroded. It does not particularly care about opinions overseas, never has.

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