Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Just because you believe it, that doesn’t make it true.

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

There are consequences to being an arrogant, sullen prick.

Second rate reporter says what?

Historically it was a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.

Damn right I heard that as a threat.

You don’t get to peddle hatred on saturday and offer condolences on sunday.

Imperialist aggressors must be defeated, or the whole world loses.

Black Jesus loves a paper trail.

Some judge needs to shut this circus down soon.

That’s my take and I am available for criticism at this time.

Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.

Impressively dumb. Congratulations.

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

Everybody saw this coming.

The next time the wall street journal editorial board speaks the truth will be the first.

Whoever he was, that guy was nuts.

Sitting here in limbo waiting for the dice to roll

Republicans in disarray!

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

I did not have this on my fuck 2022 bingo card.

Come on, man.

When your entire life is steeped in white supremacy, equality feels like discrimination.

The cruelty is the point; the law be damned.

You are here: Home / Foreign Affairs / Countries / Russia / Russian Affairs Open Thread: The Child Snatchers

Russian Affairs Open Thread: The Child Snatchers

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The Child Snatchers - STOCKPILE

(Ann Telnaes via Washington Post)

 

Adam already covered the bare bones here, of course. But I admire the simplicity of the ICC’s specific charge here. The fog-of-war arguments about who started the conflict and what happened afterwards will be dragged out for generations, but: It has been agreed that stealing children is wrong. Putin and his supporters have stolen children, are doing their best to steal more children, and are gleefully celebrating their child-stealing. When the war crimes trials start, the supporting documentation will be extensive.


The Kremlin understands just how bad this is for Dear Leader:

And Putin’s supporters here have loudly placed themselves on the wrong side of history:

Reader Interactions

81Comments

  1. 1.

    Alison Rose

    It’s absolutely disgusting and horrifying. The lasting trauma these children will live with ought to be enough to throw putin and his sidebitch into the fucking clink for the rest of their natural lives.

  2. 2.

    sab

    The evil and the stupidity does boggle the mind, You cannot just kidnap and brain-wash a fifteen year old. They arrive sentient and aware and with memories and anxiety and anger.

    We adopted a ten year old out of foster care with a dying invalid mother. Everyone involved knew that everyone else meant the best, and the child was in her own city, language and culture. It was still really really really difficult for her.

    ETA When Trumps people were separating children from their families at the border she posted on Facebook about how painful her own adoption was. She had never talked about it to us, how abandoned she felt. We knew but she never had said as much to us. Made us cry. Her comments were about how much better her own adoption ( painful!) was than those border kids.

    These kids from Ukraine off to Russia?

    More of her experience was about going into foster care. Coming out was better but not ideal. Change is difficult when the life under it is not well grounded.

    These kids off to Russia? Who in their right mind thinks this will turn out well for anyone.?

  5. 5.

    bbleh

    Alex Jones says the Trump arrest is timed with the ICC charging Putin for “evacuating children from a war zone,” because globalists are trying to stop people who won’t go along with their plans.

    I maintain that the crazies are in a slow death-spiral, in which their incentives to attract attention  — in whatever form: personal popularity, likes, ad revenue, loud cheers at rallies — drive them to ever greater extremes, in order both to outdo their competitors and to keep an easily-bored audience interested, and in so doing slowly but continually lose adherents, which in turn means they have to ratchet it up still further to attract the even-crazier, who are all that remain.

    Not to advocate for “just waiting for it to happen” any more than for just waiting for “demographics” to happen, but they are slowly but surely eating themselves.

  6. 6.

    cain

    @twbrandt: hopefully he continues to keep sinking – unless there is no bottom and he’ll just end up on the other side of the earth.

  7. 7.

    Andrya

    They do this with russian children too.  Here’s the story of a 13 year old who drew an anti-war picture in art class and was placed in an orphanage.  Her father fled as he was facing a 2 year prison sentence.  link

    The depravity is mind-boggling.

  11. 11.

    Roger Moore

    @bbleh:

    The problem is the crazies are a substantial minority of our population.  Alex Jones and Donald Trump would be nothing if they didn’t have a large, receptive audience ready to follow them to crazytown.  When these idiots try to outdo each other in craziness, they’re bringing a huge swath of the population with them.  Maybe they’re dooming themselves to extinction, but they’re dooming the 27% along with them, which is terrible for us as a country.

  12. 12.

    West of the Rockies

    In practical terms,  what does this warrant mean?  If Putin travels to, say, France or Brazil, he’d be arrested?

  14. 14.

    japa21

    I won’t believe that the arrest warrant bothers Putin until I hear reports of ketchup on the walls of the Kremlin.

  15. 15.

    Ruckus

    @sab:

    These kids off to Russia? Who in their right mind thinks this will turn out well for anyone.?

    vlad doesn’t give a damn about anyone else but vlad. He doesn’t give a damn about his own citizens, he sends them off to be slaughtered , why should he give a damn about kids he’s kidnapping? He does this crap because it pisses off everyone else.

  19. 19.

    japa21

    @kalakal: Nah. Just tow him out there without supplies or means of locomotion, create a 12 mile no fly or sail zone around him, and let him drift. He’s a manly man, he’ll figure it out.

  20. 20.

    sab

    @Ruckus: That is the huge tragedy there. I keep trying to think about it geopolitically, but I can only think about those godforsaken kids.

  21. 21.

    japa21

    @sab: ​
      It is really hard to pick from so many tragedies, but I think you are right, what the kids are going through, those kidnapped and those behind dealing with the shellings, etc., is the biggest of them all. And I will never be able to come even close to really comprehending it.

  23. 23.

    StringOnAStick

    Kidnapping these children accomplishes a few things for Vova; helps destroy Ukrainian culture, increases the number of young people in Russia with acceptable white ones, and torments the Ukrainians who are defying him.  It’s kidnapping used as a form of warfare.  Utterly depraved.

  24. 24.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    Several kids that Russia kidnapped were returned to Ukraine. Listen to what they say. They were told their parents abandoned them, promised adoption into families and told they are now forever “children of Russia”

    And Russian discipline: getting beaten with a metallic rod.

    Absolutely horrifying

  26. 26.

    Ruckus

    @sab:

    vlad cares about exactly one person, vlad. He effectively owns an entire country and does not give one shit about anyone but vlad. He’s willing to send off hundreds of thousands of men to die for only one reason, his personal desire. He’s willing to kidnap thousands of kids extremely likely to piss off the country he’s trying to destroy. Because even if he wins, all he’s winning is the country that he’s destroying. He’s a 3 yr old, if he can’t have it, no one can. There are rumors that he has a health condition, cancer or something. He may be trying to go out the baddest asshole to ever asshole at the head of the country that is Russia. A country that really hasn’t changed in hundreds of years. There is a head asshole and everyone else. And everyone else isn’t worth used toilet paper in his mind. (Neither is he but then that’s not his opinion) He’s basically an oxymoron, a leader who doesn’t lead he demands. And the country for the most part listen. Or leave if they can. If he wasn’t so dangerous he’d be a laughing stock. He’s SFB with an actual IQ. Which makes him very, very dangerous.

  28. 28.

    Roger Moore

    @Ruckus:

    I assume some of this is an attempt to deal with Russia’s demographic problems.  Their population is declining because the birth rate is low and the death rate is high.  They’re trying to kidnap and Russify these kids to boost the Russian population and shrink the Ukrainian population.  It’s all part of the genocidal plan.

  29. 29.

    Andrya

    @StringOnAStick:  It also ups the fear level in both Ukrainian and russian potential opponents.  Many people who are willing to risk their own lives will hesitate to bring about the total emotional and spiritual destruction of their children.

  30. 30.

    Matt McIrvin

    @sab: It reminds me of what Americans, Canadians and Australians did to native children–the residential schools, the Stolen Generations. Crimes against humanity.

  32. 32.

    bbleh

    @Roger Moore: True dat.  And I have long maintained that Jones, Trump, et al. are much more symptom than cause, although of course there are positive feedback effects (for much of which we have Fox to thank).

    But the 27% (or whatever) are effectively beyond reach.  Even those who are near the edges and ultimately will detach themselves are not going to do so because of our earnest pleadings or infallible reasoning.  And unlike some of them, I’m not gonna suggest disenfranchising them by some means (or worse).

    So what remains is to work on the other 73% (or whatever), and win elections, at every level from school board and county commission to the White House.  And if and when a few of the 27% spin off into limbo, perhaps in time they’ll listen.  But at least they won’t be active supporters of the Crazy anymore, which can translate into votes not cast.

  36. 36.

    JoyceH

    @Roger Moore: ​
     

    I assume some of this is an attempt to deal with Russia’s demographic problems. Their population is declining because the birth rate is low and the death rate is high. They’re trying to kidnap and Russify these kids to boost the Russian population and shrink the Ukrainian population. It’s all part of the genocidal plan.

    Russia has a SERIOUS population problem. The current cohort of women in child-bearing years is the smallest in generations, due to a steep decline in women having children during the 90s when the USSR was breaking up – and today’s women aren’t having even their ‘replacement’ kids. I wonder what’s being done with these Ukrainian kids? I can’t imagine young women who aren’t willing to have and raise their own children being willing to adopt and raise these kids.

  37. 37.

    Another Scott

    @StringOnAStick: And it (or something like it) has a history in the USSR and russia before that.  “Off to Siberia!”  It really was a thing – Katorga:

    Katorga camps were established in the 17th century by Alexis of Russia in newly conquered, underpopulated areas of Siberia and the Russian Far East – regions that had few towns or food sources. Despite the isolated conditions, a few prisoners successfully escaped to populated areas. From these times, Siberia gained its fearful connotation of punishment, which was further enhanced by the Soviet gulag system.

    After the change in Russian penal law in 1847, exile and katorga became common punishments for participants in national uprisings within the Russian Empire. This led to increasing numbers of Poles sent to Siberia for katorga. These people have become known in Poland as Sybiraks (“Siberians”). Some of them remained there, forming a Polish minority in Siberia.

    Those kids and their families are going through terrible times. I do not expect, though, that the kids will forget their families and their homeland. Ukrainians are very proud and very strong people – they won’t forget.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  39. 39.

    Ruckus

    @Roger Moore:

    I don’t normally assume but in this case I will. i think you are right. For all his bluster and bullshit, none of it is working. And if the reports of his health are right he needs (in his shitty mind) to get this done relatively soon. And it isn’t going well for him because he’s bit off far more than he should have. He’s gone all in on the concept that he can still take whatever he wants. And it’s rather obvious that even his own country men don’t believe his crap, they go along as little as possible, or leave as fast as possible, and if they can’t, tough shit. His concept of country is seemingly rapidly dying a death at it’s own hands. It seems that everyone that could leave, already has. Making his country even worse than it was. I’d bet there is an extremely small number of people willing to die for him. And that is what he needs, a huge army because he can’t do anything right because his brain is a piece of shit. Most of the concepts of his country are no longer operable. People can see that his way doesn’t work for them and doesn’t in any way make their lives better. His way is an entirely controlled country, in every way possible. He likely gets more support from our far right than he does in his own country because our far right wants a country that is rigid and non forgiving and extremely structured. And humanity is saying fuck you to all of that.

  40. 40.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Another Scott:

    Those kids and their families are going through terrible times. I do not expect, though, that the kids will forget their families and their homeland. Ukrainians are very proud and very strong people – they won’t forget.

    I agree. Well said. The ICC arrest warrants are a sign that the rest of the world hasn’t either

  41. 41.

    Geminid

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Trump lost the Presidency. That office magnified him in people’s eyes. Now the 800 pound gorilla looks more like the 350 pound mangy monkey he is.

    Polls show that Trump still has not lost his mojo among Republicans. That can change, though.

  43. 43.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Geminid:

    That’s true, but it may not be enough if the polling WG cited earlier today is right. A majority of independents don’t want Trump to be president again

  44. 44.

    StringOnAStick

    @bbleh: Good points.  The rioters in jail or about to be tried and sentenced have already been taken off the board, and as few who showed up in NYC when he demanded it suggests there are plenty of his low level followers who have twigged to the concept that getting too performative for Angry Yam has consequences now.  That’s not nothing.

    Their media and social media ranting got them so amped up that they made some very poor, federal record creating decisions, and those not under current indictment didn’t answer Angry Yam’s call, people who likely would have previously if it were relatively convenient.  I think this is important.  As more of their cases go forward and higher up the organizational level from “nobody/not associated” to Proud Boy leaders and higher, I suspect a lot of big talkers from down at the local bar are going to stay at big talk/no action.  We can build on that.

  46. 46.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Snarki, child of Loki:

    Great!

    Now do Trump and Miller.

    Seconded.

    I have no idea why they aren’t being charged with several thousand counts of child abuse, at the very least.

    You’d think this would still be a BFD, but it just seems nobody gives a damn anymore about the child separations (still hundreds of kids whose parents we haven’t located because who needs to keep good records, amirite?) or the kids in cages.

    I’m still furious about it.

  47. 47.

    bbleh

    @Roger Moore: @Ruckus: the thought occurred to me as well. Russia’s demographic problem is well known (and I don’t think it’s any great mystery what’s causing a big part of it).  Moreover, I would not be at all surprised if some of these nice, white, ethnically close babies (who are, after all, “truly” Russian) are placed with families as political favors or as part of bargains.

    It’s kind of scary to think what sort of mentality in a political leader is capable of these things.  And it’s even scarier to realize that Putin has admirers and imitators here, among whom it would appear is a recent President, who certainly was not above systemic child abuse of a different sort.

  48. 48.

    Dopey-o

    @lowtechcyclist: You’d think this would still be a BFD, but it just seems nobody gives a damn anymore about the child separations (still hundreds of kids whose parents we haven’t located because who needs to keep good records, amirite?) or the kids in cages.

    Name one children’s hospital in America that has lost track of children. Can’t? That’s because they use existing software and wristbands to track the kids. Thousands of kids, every day of every year.

    TFG and his minions wanted the separated children to be lost. The cruelty is the point.

  49. 49.

    bbleh

    @Dopey-o: Sends an Important Message™ doncha know.

    It’s sociopathic.  Miller is a Nazi — and not just ‘a’ Nazi but one of the unusually horrible ones.

  50. 50.

    Eunicecycle

    @Dopey-o: that policy, besides being horrific and inhumane, demonstrated once again the unqualified, uncaring idiots that were in Trump’s administration. They made no effort to contact agencies that had expertise in caring for families, like ORR. They just didn’t care.

  51. 51.

    Gvg

    @Roger Moore: yes, I didn’t know they had a prejudice against adoption but it is pretty common. However they must know their demographic problem and  strategically they ought to try to cancel that cultural norm. It won’t go well doing it by kidnapping though.
    Somehow I am not surprised they abuse their own children too. Should have expected it. Poor children. We need to smuggle Dr. Spock into Russia, translated.

  52. 52.

    Tony G

    @sab: That’s right.  A teenager, unlike a younger child, cannot be brainwashed.  But a teenager can be forced through violence and the threat of violence to obey his/her captors.  And for the Russian authorities obedience is at least as good as brainwashing.  I would bet that the vast majority of Russian citizens are well aware of exactly how despicable and corrupt their system is, but they are — appropriately — afraid of the consequences of opposing it.

  53. 53.

    Tony G

    @bbleh: Stephen Miller is a Jewish Nazi!  It would take an army of psychiatrists to figure out that piece of garbage — but he’s not worth the trouble.

  54. 54.

    NotMax

    @Tony G

    A teenager, unlike a younger child, cannot be brainwashed.

    Bullpuckey. Age is no barrier against indoctrination. Look at the membership of any charismatic cult. Hell, look at Fox’s adult audience.

  55. 55.

    Gvg

    @Eunicecycle: I am not sure they dared. There are laws. I was a foster mom. Everything had a paper trail. We had training, the staff had more. I think if any of those kids showed up in most states, they would start demanding records. Not having records is bad and noticeable. Adoption is part of the same system and both have lots of judges involved. Avoiding that would take active intent to evade laws. Or maybe a state that takes the law and record keeping a lot less seriously than Florida.

    I loathed Jeb Bush, but he did actually care about foster kids and took an interest in them, funded things tried to help. I did not think injecting more religious services into the foster adoption system was appropriate and some of it was probably just lining fundies pockets, but he did do things after a lot of neglect. Only thing I can think of nice to say about him. Also he was better than DeSantis and Rick Scott. Horrors.

  56. 56.

    Eunicecycle

    @Gvg: I have so much respect for foster parents. I used to be a guardian ad litem and our area had such terrific foster parents. Thank you for being a foster parent! I’m sure you made a difference in so many lives.

  57. 57.

    suzanne

    I am at the local emergency department — not in my professional capacity — sitting in the waiting room. SuzMom took a fall this morning and landed on her hip. At first it seems like she was OK and just needed to rest, but she’s been getting worse all day and can’t walk at all. Ughhhh.

  62. 62.

    Ohio Mom

    @suzanne: Oh dear, keep us posted. I hope SuzMom has a speedy and thorough recovery but first I will hope that she gets seen, soon.

  63. 63.

    Ohio Mom

    @lowtechcyclist: I would not be surprised to hear the efforts to reunite the children and their families are continuing, out of the spotlight. The success rate will fall for obvious reasons though.

  64. 64.

    suzanne

    @Ohio Mom: We got her into a room in the ED, they took X-rays, and doctor (resident) has seen her briefly. She’s screaming in pain and shaking uncontrollably. First glance at the x-rays doesn’t indicate a break.

  67. 67.

    StringOnAStick

    @Suzanne: Is the pain where they suspected a break or somewhere else entirely?  The uncontrollable shaking is a hint of something other than a possible broken hip; did she hit her head when she fell?

  68. 68.

    StringOnAStick

    @Suzanne: They will have to stop the shaking to get a useful scan so they will get her pain addressed quickly.  It’s so hard seeing someone you love scared and in pain.

  70. 70.

    prostratedragon

    Articles about the child thefts and illegal adoptiins during the Dirty War in Argentina, from 2012 and 2023. The 1983 movie La historia oficial [The Official Story] dramatizes one such case.

    Then of course we also have cases here such as the current one in Tennessee of the family whose kids have been taken away on a flimsy pretext “to protect them.” They at least are now with relatives and their parents allowed to visit them.

  72. 72.

    Bruce K in ATH-GR

    I don’t know whether it’s more appropriate for Vladimir Vladimirovich or for Alex Jones, but I’m put in mind of the curse I heard in the wake of the Dobbs decision: “I hope he contracts a disease so agonizing that he won’t know when his earthly suffering ends and his eternal torment begins.”

  74. 74.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Ohio Mom: ​
     

    I would not be surprised to hear the efforts to reunite the children and their families are continuing, out of the spotlight.

    It is. The Biden Administration is doing what it can, and the number of separated children that they haven’t been able to reunite is down into the upper three figures. (Which is still a horrifying number. I want to see Trump and Stephen Miller imprisoned for life on account of this.)

    The success rate will fall for obvious reasons though.

    This too. They’re down to the most challenging cases now, I’m sure.

  76. 76.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Suzanne: ​
     

    Eh fuuuuuck, it’s a broken hip. Just talked with the surgeon, will know more tomorrow.

    I’m so sorry to hear that – that’s really gonna suck. My thoughts are with you and your mom.

  79. 79.

    dave319

    @bbleh: They are the rump faction. Close to one-third of the electorate. The only ways to effectively contain them so their poison is not fatal to American society is total shame or total physical destruction. The supreme irony is that the Good Guys n Gals’ capacity for shame absolutely prevents our pursuit of the latter course, whereas our opponents have cast off shame entirely and are now more and more overtly sniffing around the contours of eliminationism.

  80. 80.

    evodevo

    @prostratedragon: Yep…first thing I thought of when Trumpy’s child separation program first made the headlines…Argentina and the military junta detaining/executing parents and then appropriating their children…

    Monsters…

  81. 81.

    StringOnAStick

    @Suzanne: Sometimes nondisplaced fractures don’t show on X-rays but a CT scan is much more detailed.  The positive thing is it suggests the break is not as bad as a fully displaced fracture, though the treatment is likely the same.  Orthopaedic surgery has improved by leaps and bounds in the last few decades.  I hope for good news and results for you both very soon.

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