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You are here: Home / Economics / C.R.E.A.M. / Repub Venality Open Thread: Harlan Crow’s (Bought & Paid For) Defenders: It’s A Small, Small World

Repub Venality Open Thread: Harlan Crow’s (Bought & Paid For) Defenders: It’s A Small, Small World

by Anne Laurie|  April 9, 20239:45 pm| 178 Comments

This post is in: C.R.E.A.M., Grifters Gonna Grift, Open Threads, Republican Venality, Sociopaths

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Me: the conservative movement is smaller than you think

Every conservative writer on Twitter: *raises hand* I’ve been to the Nazi artifact collector’s house too

— Matthew Sitman (@MatthewSitman) April 9, 2023

There is much to be said about ‘Justice’ Clarence Thomas being outed as a wholly-owned vassal of a particularly venal Texas real-estate development scion, but the subsidiary blowback among the Respectable Right-Wing Media Class tm is… also worth noting, IMO:

the takeaway from the WSJ pushback is that there are a lot of other people who accepted “personal hospitality” in this way who need to be reassured that it was fine actually https://t.co/WBkRsNAa0A

— post malone ergo propter malone (@PropterMalone) April 8, 2023


well i wasn't inclined to give crow the benefit of the doubt before but now i know that he's a close personal friend of clarence thomas *and* jonah goldberg i guess i have to pic.twitter.com/xL6wqQXxN4

— flglmn (@flglmn) April 8, 2023

This stuff is great because it helpfully illustrates what’s wrong with Thomas accepting these gifts. These guys clearly feel indebted to Crow and can’t remain silent even when it’s incredibly humiliating to defend him on this https://t.co/X9qrHYXSkU

— warrior cop (@wyatt_privilege) April 9, 2023

The entire value proposition of people like Jonah and French is that they supposedly can shape online discourse (it's not like they are helping make policy). So if you see the online discourse moving against your benefactor it would be highly embarrassing if you didn't push back.

— River_Tam ᵖᵃʳᵒᵈʸ (@RiverTamYDN) April 9, 2023

in this one, thiessen is in such a hurry to show public fealty that he fails to mention he cashes crow’s checks, and then goes on to forget that justice kentanji brown jackson *exists* https://t.co/XFP73UjzCc

— GOLIKEHELLMACHINE (@golikehellmachi) April 9, 2023

Love to have the guy who wrote the torture memos stick up for the guy who voted to hide evidence of his wife's involvement in a right-wing insurrection because both are tight with a billionaire who collects Hitler memorabilia. Really great stuff happening. https://t.co/4ttMeEVmxA

— Mike Duncan (@mikeduncan) April 8, 2023

One other aspect of this situation that is under-appreciated imho:https://t.co/AGJX3s9Gdf

— Andy KarlSon of Frankenstein (@RevAndyKarlson) April 9, 2023

See? Charles Murray vouches for him. Bet you feel dumb for saying he's racist now. https://t.co/PZywUjh092

— Slope Slipperer (@agraybee) April 9, 2023

Every page Charles Murray has ever written has been dismantled piece by piece by a wide range of scholars. He's been humiliated in public debates. Harlan Crow keeps him employed because he likes the idea that Black people are genetically dumb. That's bigger than a Hitler tea cozy

— Slope Slipperer (@agraybee) April 9, 2023

It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ability to vacation on a yacht depends upon his not understanding it.

— John M (@Johnm_iu) April 9, 2023

the thing about crow is that he’s got his fingers in so many republican pies that it’s going to be difficult to find someone to defend him who *hasn’t* taken his money at some point, which is, of course, one of the underlying stories here.

— GOLIKEHELLMACHINE (@golikehellmachi) April 9, 2023

when you *fail* to disclose that, people — fairly and correctly, in my opinion — think you’re trying to hide something from them.

— GOLIKEHELLMACHINE (@golikehellmachi) April 9, 2023

he’s the head of AEI, i would bet the number of conservative politicians, intellectuals and columnists who have not taken his money is in the single digits

— GOLIKEHELLMACHINE (@golikehellmachi) April 9, 2023

harlan crow opening the ark of the covenant and accidentally liquefying 2/3 of the national review masthead and three supreme court justices

— flglmn (@flglmn) April 9, 2023

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Reader Interactions

178Comments

  1. 1.

    Ruckus

    April 9, 2023 at 9:57 pm

    Isn’t this a wonderful democracy, where money buys you the ability to screw over as many people as your pocket change will allow?

    I mean normal humans are limited to thinking about it, but those who have managed to be wealthy enough to purchase a Supreme Court justice have all the fun.

  2. 2.

    John Revolta

    April 9, 2023 at 9:59 pm

    if he were sympathetic to Hitler why would he have a deep 25 year friendship with the courts’s only black justice?

    Keep thinking……………you’re almost there!……………..

    Including people of the left

    Who I’m sure will all be speaking up soon………….any minute now………………

  3. 3.

    p.a.

    April 9, 2023 at 9:59 pm

    So KOA Thomas is just the tip of the iceberg.  And Crow’s lapdogs are yipping in defense.  Will Thomas head to a safe space and start whinging à la Scalito?

  4. 4.

    The Moar You Know

    April 9, 2023 at 10:02 pm

    “Wealthist” is a thing?  Oh fuck me.  These mooks have an infinite capacity for grievance.

  5. 5.

    MagdaInBlack

    April 9, 2023 at 10:03 pm

    So another “every accusation is a confession?”  They blame everything on Soros, while being bankrolled by this guy.

    Am I the only one who has never heard of Harlan Crow before?

  6. 6.

    J R in WV

    April 9, 2023 at 10:06 pm

    I start my chemo tomorrow,  cisplaten and something else less toxic.  Wish me luck!

  7. 7.

    West of the Rockies

    April 9, 2023 at 10:08 pm

    @MagdaInBlack:

    I’d never heard of the putz.

  8. 8.

    West of the Rockies

    April 9, 2023 at 10:09 pm

    @J R in WV:

    Oh, very best wishes!!

  9. 9.

    Josie

    April 9, 2023 at 10:09 pm

    George Carlin was right all along……

  10. 10.

    Kirk

    April 9, 2023 at 10:10 pm

    @J R in WV: Best to you, and we hope to hear all about the things that went right in the near future.

  11. 11.

    MagdaInBlack

    April 9, 2023 at 10:13 pm

    @J R in WV: I wish you the best of luck thru this. ❤️

  12. 12.

    CaseyL

    April 9, 2023 at 10:15 pm

    @J R in WV: Hope everything goes very well, and the chemo isn’t awful.

  13. 13.

    Steeplejack

    April 9, 2023 at 10:16 pm

    @J R in WV:

    Good luck! And thoughts and prayers (sincerely!).

  14. 14.

    Old School

    April 9, 2023 at 10:17 pm

    @J R in WV: Good luck.  You’ve got this.

  15. 15.

    ema

    April 9, 2023 at 10:17 pm

    @J R in WV:

    Good luck and we’re here for you!

  16. 16.

    Another Scott

    April 9, 2023 at 10:17 pm

    Good luck J R!

    The thing is even if Harlan Crow collected Precious Moment figures the point remains that Clarence Thomas is corrupt.

    — Schooley (@Rschooley) April 9, 2023

    +1

    Eyes on the prizes.

    (via nycsouthpaw)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  17. 17.

    Brachiator

    April 9, 2023 at 10:17 pm

    @MagdaInBlack:

    Am I the only one who has never heard of Harlan Crow before?

    Never heard of the guy before this current controversy.

  18. 18.

    gwangung

    April 9, 2023 at 10:22 pm

    @Brachiator: Never heard of the guy before this current controversy.

    Which makes all this shit they bring up about Soros so hypocritical.

  19. 19.

    Brachiator

    April 9, 2023 at 10:23 pm

    @J R in WV:

    Best wishes to you!

  20. 20.

    SiubhanDuinne

    April 9, 2023 at 10:23 pm

    @J R in WV:

    I will be thinking of you tomorrow (as I have been since you shared your diagnosis). You have my best possible wishes!

  21. 21.

    Lapassionara

    April 9, 2023 at 10:23 pm

    @J R in WV: I wish you luck and health. Please let us know how you are doing.

  22. 22.

    Kristine

    April 9, 2023 at 10:24 pm

    @J R in WV: All best wishes!

  23. 23.

    SiubhanDuinne

    April 9, 2023 at 10:25 pm

    @Brachiator:

    Am I the only one who has never heard of Harlan Crow before?

    Never heard of the guy before this current controversy.

    Nor I.

  24. 24.

    Jay

    April 9, 2023 at 10:25 pm

    @J R in WV:

    best wishes,

    all the f’ing luck in the world.

    and fuck cancer.

  25. 25.

    Josie

    April 9, 2023 at 10:25 pm

    @J R in WV: ​
     I wish you the very best.

  26. 26.

    Tehanu

    April 9, 2023 at 10:26 pm

    @J R in WV: Best of luck. I have two very close friends who went through it and it’s no fun, but they’re still here which is the whole point.  Hope your experience is even better.

  27. 27.

    Ken

    April 9, 2023 at 10:26 pm

    I feel that there is some version of the Streisand effect in play here, with all these people rushing to Crow’s defense and thereby drawing attention to Crow, and to their own past with him, and to how many of them there are.

    Sending best wishes your way, J R in WV.

  28. 28.

    p.a.

    April 9, 2023 at 10:27 pm

    @J R in WV: Best wishes!  💪🏻

  29. 29.

    Ixnay

    April 9, 2023 at 10:29 pm

    @J R in WV: Best wishes and good vibrations your way.

  30. 30.

    Mr. Bemused Senior

    April 9, 2023 at 10:31 pm

    I find it revealing that Clarence Thomas felt impelled to offer a response, and in so doing was so transparently lying. Does he himself even think anyone believes his explanation that he “sought guidance?”

    P.S., best wishes to J R

  31. 31.

    Steeplejack

    April 9, 2023 at 10:35 pm

    @Brachiator:

    I hadn’t heard of Harlan Crow before, but “Crow” and “real estate” set the spidey sense tingling. I knew about Trammell Crow decades ago, and when I read that Harlan Crow was a real-estate guy I assumed they were related. (Harlan is Trammell’s son.) Trammell presented as a standard-issue Texas Republican rich guy and kept any extreme nuttiness (if any) on the down low.

  32. 32.

    BruceFromOhio

    April 9, 2023 at 10:36 pm

    harlan crow opening the ark of the covenant and accidentally liquefying 2/3 of the national review masthead and three supreme court justices

    I am so down for this. How can I help?

  33. 33.

    cintibud

    April 9, 2023 at 10:38 pm

    @J R in WV: Good luck J R!

  34. 34.

    Mallard Filmore

    April 9, 2023 at 10:40 pm

    @The Moar You Know: 

    “Wealthist” is a thing?

    I used to be an atheist. Now I’m a wealthist.

  35. 35.

    BruceFromOhio

    April 9, 2023 at 10:40 pm

     

    @p.a.:  if the outcome is the same, please proceed!

  36. 36.

    BruceFromOhio

    April 9, 2023 at 10:41 pm

    @Ruckus: This is why I subscribe to ProPublica.

  37. 37.

    BeautifulPlumage

    April 9, 2023 at 10:42 pm

    @J R in WV: good thoughts for easy treatments and best results. Will be thinking of you tomorrow.

  38. 38.

    frosty

    April 9, 2023 at 10:42 pm

    @J R in WV: Best of luck to you! I know a couple of people who have gone through chemo and come out the other side. I expect you to be the next.

  39. 39.

    James E Powell

    April 9, 2023 at 10:43 pm

    @J R in WV:

    I wish you way more than luck.

  40. 40.

    Suzanne

    April 9, 2023 at 10:43 pm

    @J R in WV: .May your infusions be painless and your side effects be minimal and — ultimately — may this shit knock that cancer to the curb!

  41. 41.

    Madeleine

    April 9, 2023 at 10:44 pm

    @J R in WV: will be thinking of you and wishing you well.

  42. 42.

    BeautifulPlumage

    April 9, 2023 at 10:44 pm

    @MagdaInBlack: no. Only knew of Koch & Uhlein. Streisand Effect for the win.

  43. 43.

    Ruckus

    April 9, 2023 at 10:45 pm

    @J R in WV:

    I got 9 weeks of radiation therapy. It’s always good times, just keep thinking positive thoughts, follow the entire protocol exactly and good luck.

  44. 44.

    Suzanne

    April 9, 2023 at 10:48 pm

    The piece is loaded with words and phrases intended to convey that this is all somehow disreputable: “superyacht”; “luxury trips”; “exclusive California all-male retreat”; “sprawling ranch”; “private chefs”; “elegant accommodation”; “opulent lodge”; “lavishing the justice with gifts.” And more.

    What fucken dumb shit. Not a single word or phrase quoted has any definition or even a shading of disreputability. Unless the WSJ thinks it’s disreputable to be rich. Which…. Oh shit, telling on themselves.

  45. 45.

    FastEdD

    April 9, 2023 at 10:49 pm

    @J R in WV: All the best, man. You’ll make it. I’ve had way too much experience with the procedure.

  46. 46.

    Poe Larity

    April 9, 2023 at 10:50 pm

    Hitler’s China is as close to Ming Dynasty quality as any Texas realtor doofus will ever get.

    Leave Trammel Harlan alone!

  47. 47.

    SpaceUnit

    April 9, 2023 at 10:50 pm

    @J R in WV:

    Good luck J R.  You’ve got a lot of friends here.

  48. 48.

    Jackie

    April 9, 2023 at 10:51 pm

    @J R in WV: Sending good luck and minimal yukkiness and side effects your way. And double good luck for a positive outcome!🤞🏻🤞🏻

  49. 49.

    RaflW

    April 9, 2023 at 10:51 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: As a former resident of Texas (but never a Texan), his daddy’s name was inescapable in the DFW area in the 80s. Fred Trammel Crow. Though to be more accurate, back then I thought Trammel Crow was just a corporate name, like it was a partnership and those were two last names, not a middle and last of one guy.

  50. 50.

    Kriger09

    April 9, 2023 at 10:52 pm

    All of Crow’s defenders are (probably deliberately) trying to muddy the waters by focusing on the “garden of evil.” The statues of dictators, which he says are to ensure we remember how terrible they are, are almost all Communists. No Nazi, or rightwing fascist, statues there. So I believe him that he hates them, but because of the Communism. But he apparently doesn’t think the Nazis need a statue in his garden of evil, unlike Communists.

    The Nazi and Hitler stuff is various memorabilia housed in his home, ie alongside things he likes and supports (Thatcher paintings, historical documents, etc.). He has Hitler’s paintings and a signed copy of Mien Kampf, not a signed copy of the Communist Manifesto or drawings by Stalin.

    By equating the Nazi memorabilia with his separate shrine to how much he hates communist figures, and making it seem like the Nazi stuff is alongside the Communist stuff, his defenders are intentionally misconstruing the context. They are qualitatively different.

  51. 51.

    Betsy

    April 9, 2023 at 10:53 pm

    @J R in WV: Wishing you luck and much more.

  52. 52.

    Ruckus

    April 9, 2023 at 10:55 pm

    @Suzanne:

    Oh shit, telling on themselves.

    They know very well and have since the inception of the WSJ what is going on in their world. They just think it’s absolutely fine.

  53. 53.

    divF

    April 9, 2023 at 10:56 pm

    @J R in WV: Yikes! Good luck, and let us know how it goes.

  54. 54.

    Wyatt Salamanca

    April 9, 2023 at 10:57 pm

    Speaking of Harlan Crow and Nazism,

    RIP Benjamin Ferencz, the last surviving Nuremberg prosecutor has died at 103.

    thejacksonlist.com/2023/04/08/benjamin-b-ferencz-1920-%e1%80%91/

     

  55. 55.

    Hitchhiker

    April 9, 2023 at 10:59 pm

    Helpful analogy w/respect to the Clarence Thomas corruption:

    Suppose the NFL owners learned that a very rich dude with an interest in one particular team was taking a certain referee on vacation every summer, to the most expensive and elite resorts on the planet.

    Would everybody be fine with that?

  56. 56.

    mvr

    April 9, 2023 at 11:00 pm

    @J R in WV: ​
     Wishing you good luck!

  57. 57.

    Betsy

    April 9, 2023 at 11:00 pm

    Why are all these super-rich people so very WEIRD?? They’re so weird!

    Musk, deVos, Crow, that Koch (?) sister with the giant forehead — is there any such thing as a normal billionaire?!?

     

  58. 58.

    BlueGuitarist

    April 9, 2023 at 11:02 pm

    @J R in WV:

    good luck!
    All the best

  59. 59.

    SiubhanDuinne

    April 9, 2023 at 11:04 pm

    @RaflW:

    Trammel Crow was the developer of Peachtree Center in downtown Atlanta, an area which I used to know well. But like you, I too thought Trammel Crow was just a corporate name, like it was a partnership and those were two last names, not a middle and last of one guy.

    :-)

  60. 60.

    different-church-lady

    April 9, 2023 at 11:04 pm

    Whole lotta people pal’ing around with Nazis over there…

  61. 61.

    SpaceUnit

    April 9, 2023 at 11:05 pm

    Nothing weird about a ton of folks who make a living sucking at the fascism tit coming to the defense of a really wealthy conservative dude who collects nazi memorabilia.

  62. 62.

    different-church-lady

    April 9, 2023 at 11:05 pm

    @Betsy: Why are all these super-rich people so very WEIRD??

    I think it’s because of all the money.

  63. 63.

    different-church-lady

    April 9, 2023 at 11:07 pm

    @SpaceUnit: Wait, are Nazis bad? I keep hearing people talk like Nazis are bad.

  64. 64.

    Gvg

    April 9, 2023 at 11:08 pm

    What I find great is that the media are connecting all the dots for me like they are supposed to. Explaining who all these defenders are and how sleepy they are and their nasty connections to natzi type stuff, writing torture memos and other things I had forgotten….that is really great and much better and even more important than the original story about Thomas. I hope this gets spread widely.

    That the WSJ is spreading some of it is also great. Does that mean Rupert is not a friend of Crow’s?

    I want to see lots of stories about each of these people who are in that group.

    why the heck would even rich white people be into Hitler? He was not as smart as he thought and killed a bunch of rich people too and wrecked their country. Is their life too pampered and they have to have hate to make it less boring?

  65. 65.

    different-church-lady

    April 9, 2023 at 11:09 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: I thought Trammel Crow was an activity. 

  66. 66.

    Kayla Rudbek

    April 9, 2023 at 11:09 pm

    @J R in WV: good luck and may the cancer be defeated!

  67. 67.

    different-church-lady

    April 9, 2023 at 11:10 pm

    @Gvg:

    why the heck would even rich white people be into Hitler? He was not as smart as he thought and killed a bunch of rich people too and wrecked their country.

    Rich white people are really into two out of those three things.

  68. 68.

    SiubhanDuinne

    April 9, 2023 at 11:11 pm

    @Betsy:

    that Koch (?) sister with the giant forehead

    By any chance are you thinking of Rebekah Mercer? She has a decidedly outsized forehead in the pictures I’ve seen.

  69. 69.

    SpaceUnit

    April 9, 2023 at 11:12 pm

    @different-church-lady:

    There are both sides to that question.

  70. 70.

    SiubhanDuinne

    April 9, 2023 at 11:13 pm

    @different-church-lady:

    I thought Trammel Crow was an activity.

    Preventing a murder?

  71. 71.

    Chetan Murthy

    April 9, 2023 at 11:17 pm

    @Betsy: I shit you not, today’s Doonesbury has an answer to your question.  Seriously.

  72. 72.

    Ruckus

    April 9, 2023 at 11:19 pm

    @Gvg:

    I imagine, not being anything like monied, that if one is rich one wouldn’t want to hang out with normal people. Which would mean if you hang out with other people of wealth you’ll find out what they do with their money and find something to do with yours. Because I imagine that owning 8 or more houses and having enough money that you can do most anything you can imagine doing with money becomes a chase for that “high” like drug users look for, that one thing that makes it worthwhile. Taking drugs would require a high of epic proportions and hoarding money would require spending some in a way that no more than a few might select to spend theirs. IOW, some sort of kink. Like nazi crap. Cause ya know that hitler was a bit nuts so his memorabilia is likely suited to a wealthy collector looking for something unusual to spend money on. Either that or he liked the concept of hitler. And defending a rich guy who is known in his rich circles to collect hitler crap as if it is no big deal seems so normal…..

  73. 73.

    Sister Golden Bear

    April 9, 2023 at 11:25 pm

    @J R in WV: Crossing my fingers for you!

  74. 74.

    Another Scott

    April 9, 2023 at 11:25 pm

    @SpaceUnit: I can’t find it now, but someone on Twitter said something like:

    “Collecting Hitler’s stuff doesn’t make Crow a bad person.  Being a close personal friend of Clarence Thomas for more than 20 years is what makes Crow a bad person.”

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  75. 75.

    MisterForkbeard

    April 9, 2023 at 11:29 pm

    @Hitchhiker: Not only that, but that the referee hid it and lied about it, then tried to say it was okay.

  76. 76.

    Sister Golden Bear

    April 9, 2023 at 11:31 pm

    @different-church-lady:

    Wait, are Nazis bad? I keep hearing people talk like Nazis are bad.

    “Are we the Baddies?”

  77. 77.

    Mallard Filmore

    April 9, 2023 at 11:33 pm

    oops, wrong thread.

  78. 78.

    Steeplejack

    April 9, 2023 at 11:40 pm

    Jay Willis:

    Genuinely funny that Harlan Crow’s Nazi fetish has other right-wingers coming out of the woodwork like “How can he be weird when I, too, am somewhat of an appreciator of historical racists?”

    “I’m just a history buff, what’s the big deal? Sure, all the eras about which I’d call myself an ‘enthusiast’ have a very specific thing in common, but obviously that’s a coincidence.”

  79. 79.

    Gin & Tonic

    April 9, 2023 at 11:41 pm

    @J R in WV: Best of luck, JR.

  80. 80.

    Sure Lurkalot

    April 9, 2023 at 11:47 pm

    @J R in WV: More than luck, grace , miracle, science! We all need something to believe in to send our power forth.

    ETA I beat the evil C once, so far.

  81. 81.

    Betsy

    April 9, 2023 at 11:57 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: Yes.

  82. 82.

    Ohio Mom

    April 9, 2023 at 11:58 pm

    @J R in WV: Yes, definitely, good luck! You can do this, lots and lots of other people have. Keep us posted when you are able.

  83. 83.

    Yutsano

    April 9, 2023 at 11:58 pm

    @J R in WV: ​LUUUUUUUUCK!!!

    (U got dis doe)

  84. 84.

    JeffH

    April 9, 2023 at 11:59 pm

    @MisterForkbeard: I haven’t followed it too closely, but I believe that’s essentially what has happened in Spanish soccer with Barcelona. Needless to say, people are very much not ok with it.

  85. 85.

    Joey Maloney

    April 10, 2023 at 12:05 am

    @J R in WV: Good luck, may you have a swift and full recovery.

  86. 86.

    Betsy

    April 10, 2023 at 12:08 am

    @Chetan Murthy: Am I looking at the right one? .. but umm — “Garfield”?  I guess it’s late, and I don’t get it.

  87. 87.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    April 10, 2023 at 12:09 am

    @Betsy: Why are all these super-rich people so very WEIRD?? They’re so weird!

    I think you legitimately need to be a sociopath to accrue a billion dollars. That number can probably be smaller, too.

  88. 88.

    Benw

    April 10, 2023 at 12:11 am

    @J R in WV: I wish you success. Kick ass, my dude

  89. 89.

    Sanjeevs

    April 10, 2023 at 12:13 am

    @J R in WV: Best of luck to you!

  90. 90.

    Chetan Murthy

    April 10, 2023 at 12:14 am

    @Betsy: Rick&Joanie thought their son was coming in to bitch about the Dilbert author getting canceled, not Garfield.

  91. 91.

    Spadizzly

    April 10, 2023 at 12:17 am

    @J R in WV: Delurking to wish you all the best.

  92. 92.

    West of the Rockies

    April 10, 2023 at 12:20 am

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    That’s not a forehead… it’s a five head!

  93. 93.

    Spadizzly

    April 10, 2023 at 12:24 am

    “Harlan Crow is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I’ve ever known in my life.”

    Mike Pence

  94. 94.

    Steeplejack

    April 10, 2023 at 12:24 am

    @Betsy:

    I think the joke is that the kid is referring to Scott Adams but thinking Garfield instead of Dilbert. I wasn’t clear on how that related to your question, unless it’s about Adams stanning for Elon Musk.

  95. 95.

    Roberto el oso

    April 10, 2023 at 12:26 am

    @Suzanne: the funny thing is is that if you go thru the quoted bits and remove the adjectives it still comes across as a very wealthy lifestyle … I have a feeling that the WSJ’s attempt to make anyone feel bad about being ‘wealthist’ may not succeed.

  96. 96.

    Josie (also)

    April 10, 2023 at 12:26 am

    @J R in WV:  Best wishes.  Sending healing thoughts.

  97. 97.

    Chetan Murthy

    April 10, 2023 at 12:27 am

    @Steeplejack: @Betsy: Sorry, i was just referring to the thesis of the parents, that people have to always be editing themselves, not just putting out whatever they think all the time.  And that …. well, that’s what gazillionaires like Crow don’t ever have to do, b/c they’re surrounded by people who’ll say “yes sir, brilliant idea!” no matter what it is.

  98. 98.

    Kineslaw

    April 10, 2023 at 12:30 am

    I know people that worked for and absolutely adored and respected Trammell Crow.  They never, not once, mentioned Harlan Crow, which I suspect is a tell.

  99. 99.

    Hilbertsubspace

    April 10, 2023 at 12:34 am

    I hesitate to mention it, but the villain’s name in The Dead Pool (Dirty Harry 5) was Harlan Rook.  Rook being another species of Genus Corvus like the crow.  Rook was obsessed with horror (movies) and Crow seems obsessed with actual horror.  Such an unusual coincidence.

    There was a good article on coincidence by mathematician Marvin Gardener about 15-20 years ago before he passed.  He stated that the sheer number of potential strange coincidences should cause us to observe more than are actually reported or seen.

    The gap is caused by peoples poor observation skills and poor memory (My statement not Gardener’s).  People with above average observation and memory will see more coincidence and if they are ungrounded can be lured in conspiratorial thinking.  Like the idea we live in a computer simulation (We don’t).

  100. 100.

    piratedan

    April 10, 2023 at 12:39 am

    so in keeping with the running theory that everything that the GOP throws out as an accusation is simply a projection of their own misdeeds because if they’re doing it then EVERYONE else must be doing it as well….

    does this mean that decades of George Soros accusations are actually projections of the activities of Mr. Harlan Crow?

    cripes…..   wonder if this plays into the appendix that all of these conspiracy theories floated by the far right over Soros, Clinton and da Juice being pedophiles and sex traffickers and seeking to subvert the rule of law and turn us all into heathen snowflakes where men can’t be men and be served beer outta their fridges by wimmen…. into…… nah…….

  101. 101.

    SpaceUnit

    April 10, 2023 at 12:40 am

    @Hilbertsubspace:

    whut?

  102. 102.

    Chetan Murthy

    April 10, 2023 at 12:42 am

    @piratedan: Well, it seems Harlan’s brother is involved in a massive sex-slavery scandal (how can it be a scandal, when it’s a massive crime?  Shouldn’t it be “criminal conspiracy?”)  Him and several other Texas businessmen apparently held several women captive, raped them, etc, etc, etc.  Somehow, this isn’t a massive national story.  So yeah, EAIAC.

  103. 103.

    StringOnAStick

    April 10, 2023 at 12:56 am

    @Chetan Murthy: When was this, is it something that happened recently?

  104. 104.

    StringOnAStick

    April 10, 2023 at 12:58 am

    @J R in WV: Best of luck and best of medical science to you tomorrow, and every day of your treatment journey, from now until you emerge cancer -free at the other side.

  105. 105.

    Hilbertsubspace

    April 10, 2023 at 12:59 am

    @SpaceUnit:TL;DR version: It’s a weird world.

    He has the name of a literal movie villain.

    Like I said, I hesitated because people think coincidence is meaningful.

    And good luck to J R in WV.  I’ll be rooting for you also.

  106. 106.

    Chetan Murthy

    April 10, 2023 at 1:01 am

    @StringOnAStick: dallasexpress.com/national/trammell-crow-jr-named-in-human-trafficking-case/

  107. 107.

    Bruce K in ATH-GR

    April 10, 2023 at 1:07 am

    The only thing I’ve ever read by Charles Murray was his history of the Apollo program, and it took some time for me to realize it was the same Charles Murray. I’m at a loss as to what to do with that book, which I really liked.

  108. 108.

    Mai Naem mobile

    April 10, 2023 at 1:20 am

    @J R in WV: good luck. I hope the treatment is successful and quick.

  109. 109.

    Hilbertsubspace

    April 10, 2023 at 1:25 am

    @Bruce K in ATH-GR: Wernher von Braun was a Nazi and America treated him better then England treated Alan Turing who was just gay.

    Human societies have issues.  Humans are the problem there is no solution for.*  Killing isn’t an answer just like multiplying both sides of an equation by zero isn’t an answer, it solves nothing.

    *Don’t @ me for sentence structure.  Natural language is my weakness.

  110. 110.

    Westyny

    April 10, 2023 at 1:26 am

    @J R in WV: Best wishes.

  111. 111.

    patrick II

    April 10, 2023 at 1:29 am

    @J R in WV:

    Good luck J R in WV.

  112. 112.

    Chris T.

    April 10, 2023 at 1:31 am

    @Hilbertsubspace:

    Don’t @ me for sentence structure. Natural language is my weakness.

    OK, but how about “a” vs “the”? You said “the” problem without a solution; surely there are many more….  Then again, perhaps that’s a natural language issue. 😀

    (ETA: adding this comment should cause a new thread to spring into being, let’s see if that works!)

  113. 113.

    AlaskaReader

    April 10, 2023 at 1:32 am

    Wilson H. Taylor, chairman of the Board of Trustees of the American Enterprise Institute, announced the retirement of four AEI trustees and the election of four new trustees following the Board’s annual meeting on December 6. Retiring are Raymond E. Cartledge, former chairman and CEO, Union Camp Corporation; James W. Kinnear, former president and CEO, Texaco Incorporated; Paul F. Oreffice, former chairman, Dow Chemical Company; and Henry Wendt, former chairman, SmithKline Beecham. Mr. Oreffice, who served as AEI chairman from 1990 to 1994, and Mr. Wendt were named emeritus trustees of AEI.

    The new AEI trustees are Dick Cheney, Harlan Crow, Harvey Golub, and William S. Stavropoulos.

  114. 114.

    a thousand flouncing lurkers (was fidelio)

    April 10, 2023 at 1:41 am

    @J R in WV: Good luck! I know I’m not the only one here who’ll have you in mind these coming weeks.

  115. 115.

    Hilbertsubspace

    April 10, 2023 at 1:41 am

    @Chris T.: Good point.  There is no general solution to the quintic equation but they all have solutions.  The three body problem exists so does it’s solution, but we don’t have it and might not understand it if we saw it.  You cannot trisect a general angle with compass and straight edge.  But the solution is that it can be proven impossible.  But you are correct, there are many problems we don’t currently have a solution too.

    Like where is the next open thread, and why am I awake?

    To quote Jim Carrey in The Mask

    “Somebody, Stop ME!”

  116. 116.

    AlaskaReader

    April 10, 2023 at 1:44 am

    @Steeplejack: …only if funding anti-immigration hate groups is keeping it on the low down.

  117. 117.

    Origuy

    April 10, 2023 at 1:45 am

    @AlaskaReader: Time for a new generation? Except for Crow, 74, they are all in their 80s.

  118. 118.

    AlaskaReader

    April 10, 2023 at 1:54 am

    @Kineslaw: …how very unfortunate to hear you say that.

  119. 119.

    Citizen Alan

    April 10, 2023 at 1:56 am

    @MagdaInBlack: Honestly, there are so many evil RW billionaires, it’s impossible to keep up with him. I mean, seriously, “Harlan Crow”?!? He doesn’t even sound real! That’s the name of the villain in a Stephen King novel who turns out to be possessed by a literal demon!

  120. 120.

    AlaskaReader

    April 10, 2023 at 1:57 am

    @Hilbertsubspace: The convergence of math and literature.

  121. 121.

    Citizen Alan

    April 10, 2023 at 2:01 am

    @Betsy: The main reason I support confiscatory tax rates is because I truly believe that wealth beyond a certain point (well below billionaire status) literally makes people become deranged and evil. Every single member of the 0.1% should be viewed as a dangerous psychopath armed with resources equivalent to a small nation and committed to destroying America.

  122. 122.

    Citizen Alan

    April 10, 2023 at 2:01 am

    duplicate comment

  123. 123.

    JaySinWA

    April 10, 2023 at 2:05 am

    Meanwhile back at the ranch: let’s not forget Texas Gov Abbott wants to fast track a pardon of a man convicted of murdering a BLM protester. cnn.com/2023/04/09/us/greg-abbott-pardon-daniel-perry/index.html

    It shouldn’t get lost in all the bribery and authoritarian stuff that has been going on in the background with Crow. There should be as much outcry against that as possible.

    As to Crow, it strikes me that we have many examples of “righteous” men that have been found to have the very things they rail against in their possession. Like the man arrested for child porn who was a victim advocate. miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article273753550.html

    Hiding his obsession with authoritarians in plain sight while claiming his garden of evil and other collected works was some kind of anti authoritarian scene, while talking a good game seems quite plausible to me. I don’t remember hearing any thing about Crow before this, but apparently he has a history of being exposed in print, as well as CT’s relationship with him and then both skittering away from the light.

  124. 124.

    AlaskaReader

    April 10, 2023 at 2:14 am

    @Origuy:People should know who it is that works against their survival.

    The Crow family, like all the rest of the right wing billionaires need to be exposed.

    Trammel S Crow masquerades as a greenie, but…

     linking to some background…

    Charles Munger Jr.

    “If it weren’t for Charles Munger, the California Republican Party would have been driven into the sea at this point,” said Kevin Spillane, a GOP strategist.”

  125. 125.

    AlaskaReader

    April 10, 2023 at 2:16 am

    @Citizen Alan: ..that’s ok, it bore repeating.

  126. 126.

    AlaskaReader

    April 10, 2023 at 2:32 am

    Matthew Sitman

    @MatthewSitman

    Me: the conservative movement is smaller than you think

    Me:             That’s just wrong,

    …it’s just the opposite,

    and that means we all have to work just that much harder.

  127. 127.

    AlaskaReader

    April 10, 2023 at 2:35 am

    @Origuy: …changing of the guard,

    …age doesn’t count as much as purity of ideology and wealth that can be brought to bear.

  128. 128.

    Odie Hugh Manatee

    April 10, 2023 at 2:50 am

    @J R in WV:

    Best of luck and wishes to you in winning your battle! Please keep us updated and take care of yourself!!!

  129. 129.

    Hilbertsubspace

    April 10, 2023 at 3:08 am

    @AlaskaReader:

    Perhaps rather then small…  Incestuous might be the correct term here.  On multiple levels.  They live inside a thought bubble while accusing others of the same.

    Since we don’t have a new thread I will tell a relevant math joke.  You have been warned.

     

    A Rancher wants to use fencing to contain his herd with the minimum materials.  Since he has a friend who’s a mathematician, he invites him to his ranch to look at the land.  The mathematician says sure and heads out to take a look saying this will be easy.  He doesn’t look at anything except the gate for the fencing and asks the rancher if he wants it squared off.  The rancher says yes and so he says “Great.  A square 15 feet on a side will work”.  “Impossible,” says the rancher. “Build it and I’ll show you”

    The rancher tells his men to put it up like he said and it only take about 20 minutes.  He then turns to the mathematician and says, “Well, We’re waiting on you.”  And the mathematician walks into the enclosure and shut it behind him and says “Done”.  The rancher responds, “This is stupid, the cows won’t fit just because you do, I got over a thousand head.”

    “You don’t understand,” said the mathematician from behind the gate, “I’m on the outside.”

     

    “Please Clap”

    -John Ellis Bush (JEB)

  130. 130.

    Kathleen

    April 10, 2023 at 3:25 am

    @J R in WV: Sending you prayers and light.

  131. 131.

    pieceofpeace

    April 10, 2023 at 3:26 am

    @J R in WV:    All good wishes coming your way.

  132. 132.

    opiejeanne

    April 10, 2023 at 3:32 am

    @J R in WV: Good luck, I hope everything goes well for you for the duration of the treatment.

     

    And fuck cancer.

  133. 133.

    rikyrah

    April 10, 2023 at 3:45 am

    @J R in WV:

    Good luck🙏🏾🙏🏾

  134. 134.

    Geoduck

    April 10, 2023 at 3:52 am

    @Hilbertsubspace: Von Braun is evidently the inspiration for the main villain in the upcoming (and last) Indiana Jones movie.

    And the great Tom Lehrer once gave his thoughts on the man as well.

  135. 135.

    Tony Jay

    April 10, 2023 at 4:34 am

    @J R in WV:

    Cargo of non-denominational luck on its way to you right now. It’ll feel terrible for a while, but then it’ll get better.

  136. 136.

    Baud

    April 10, 2023 at 4:34 am

    @J R in WV:

    Kick cancer’s ass.

  137. 137.

    Baud

    April 10, 2023 at 4:35 am

    Now I’m starting to wonder whether my shrine to serial killers will be misinterpreted.

  138. 138.

    JWR

    April 10, 2023 at 4:37 am

    @JaySinWA:

    … Texas Gov Abbott wants to fast track a pardon of a man convicted of murdering a BLM protester.

    TX governor Greg Abbott to TN: Hold our beer.

    And yes, I know the victim was White, but he was marching with the BLM protesters. Dumb idea bringing his AR, though, no matter the legality.

  139. 139.

    Honus

    April 10, 2023 at 4:37 am

    Crow went to an all-white all-male “white flight” military prep school in Virginia:

    “Like the other six military schools in Virginia, Randolph-Macon Academy was able to maintain a large and steady enrollment primarily because of forced public school integration“

    Oddly, the staunchly anti-communist anti-authoritarian Crow never served in Vietnam, despite graduating from military school in the mid sixties.

    ETA: Good luck JR, my hillbilly friend.

  140. 140.

    Tony Jay

    April 10, 2023 at 4:40 am

    @Kriger09:

    Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner.

    “He can’t be racist! His beloved wife may be ivory pure but all of the women he keeps in the slave cabins are darkest ebony! Can’t you see he loves them equally?”

  141. 141.

    bjacques

    April 10, 2023 at 4:50 am

    It seems like every prominent conservative stepped up to defend Harlan Crow’s collecting taste even more eagerly than they did his patronage of Clarence Thomas.

     

    EDIT: And I hope the Feds get Perry on violation of civil rights. Abbott can’t pardon him on that.

  142. 142.

    JWR

    April 10, 2023 at 5:03 am

    @bjacques:  Exactly. NBC news waited until it’s 11:30PM  edition to report on this, but a former TX prosecutor(?) noted that his pardon board likely will grant Abbott’s request, which made me wonder if there was anything the feds could do about it.

    Boy, this country is going backwards faster than I ever dreamed could happen.

  143. 143.

    Baud

    April 10, 2023 at 5:13 am

    This is my shocked face.

    An analysis that was the basis of a highly criticized recommendation from Florida’s surgeon general cautioning young men against getting the COVID-19 vaccine omitted information that showed catching the virus could increase the risk of a cardiac-related death much more than getting the mRNA shot, according to drafts of the analysis obtained by the Tampa Bay Times.

  144. 144.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    April 10, 2023 at 5:40 am

    Who among us hasn’t collected memorabilia of Josef Mengele

  145. 145.

    Baud

    April 10, 2023 at 5:49 am

    Seriously, though, Harlan, if your looking for a Balloon Juice defender, Venmo me.

  146. 146.

    Wanderer

    April 10, 2023 at 5:51 am

    @J R in WV: I wish you the very best. I hope that all goes as smoothly as possible and you have all the benefits with the least side effects.

  147. 147.

    LiminalOwl

    April 10, 2023 at 5:51 am

    @Hilbertsubspace: By any chance do you remember the name if the Martin Gardner article? Or do I have to read all of his non-puzzle books? (What a fate… yes, I love Gardner when I can understand him). Thanks very much for the reference. I’m fascinated by this idea.

  148. 148.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    April 10, 2023 at 6:10 am

     It’s not a tribute to evil or something to be mocked. It’s an attempt commemorate the horrors of the 20th century in the spirit of “never again.”

    Hmmm, why do I get the feeling Crow doesn’t have autographs of Osama bin Laden and Ayatollah Khomeini – you know for “commemorate” purposes.

  149. 149.

    lowtechcyclist

    April 10, 2023 at 6:21 am

    @different-church-lady:

    Wait, are Nazis bad? I keep hearing people talk like Nazis are bad.

    At least it’s an ethos.

  150. 150.

    Richard Grant

    April 10, 2023 at 6:27 am

    Crow funding is the practice of funding a project or venture by raising money from one large benefactor. When several such large benefactors fund a project or venture, it is called a murder of Crows. What is most important to the large benefactor is the Caws. Reportedly, the legality of Crow funding had been determined by a member of the U.S. Supreme Court wearing a glossy black robe while Raven about RV parks.

  151. 151.

    Kay

    April 10, 2023 at 6:28 am

    The antiwoke ninnies meet at Crow’s Old Parkland. It has a Reagan Hall.

    The Forbidden Courses Summer Program brings together undergraduates to cultivate the habits of civil discourse. In discussion-based seminars and practical workshops, students will discuss and debate the most vexing questions of our time.
    Students will have the opportunity to meet with and learn from leading innovators in tech, business, entrepreneurship, engineering, education, and more.
    This year, we’re proud to host the event at the beautiful Old Parkland campus in Dallas, Texas.

    Small world on the Right, huh?

  152. 152.

    Baud

    April 10, 2023 at 6:30 am

    @Kay:

    Sounds a lot like Balloon Juice.

    ETA: Seriously, the right invests a lot of money into training and networking for young fascists.

  153. 153.

    Kay

    April 10, 2023 at 6:48 am

    @Baud:

    engineering

    Bari Weiss says they’re teaching “engineering” at the fake college. lol. They just can’t help themselves- they have to go over the top. So when the students get there they realize 1. the school is not in Austin but is instead at the mall of a Right wing nepotism baby billionaire 2. it’s a bunch of Substack grifters delivering anti woke screeds which they can get free on Youtube.

    “Excuse me- can you show me to the engineering building?”

  154. 154.

    Baud

    April 10, 2023 at 6:49 am

    @Kay:

    They teach civil engineering instead of uncivil engineering like at those woke universities.

  155. 155.

    Soprano2

    April 10, 2023 at 7:06 am

    @J R in WV: Good luck with your treatment. I’ll be thinking of you.

  156. 156.

    JWR

    April 10, 2023 at 7:19 am

    @Kay, @Baud:

    civil engineering

    More like Social Engineering, I’ll bet.

  157. 157.

    Princess

    April 10, 2023 at 7:25 am

    One bonus — obviously Crow has deliberately been flying under the radar. He must HATE all the current attention on him and that brings me joy. And Clarence Thomas is a grifter and a crook.

  158. 158.

    The Thin Black Duke

    April 10, 2023 at 7:29 am

    Good luck, JR.

  159. 159.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    April 10, 2023 at 7:39 am

    @Gvg: why the heck would even rich white people be into Hitler?

    The History channel makes Nazis cool.

  160. 160.

    Kathleen

    April 10, 2023 at 8:12 am

    @Baud: “What I meant to say was ‘Cereal Killers’. Here’s my whistle from a Captain Crunch box circa 1977.”

  161. 161.

    Jay C

    April 10, 2023 at 8:26 am

    @Brachiator:

    @MagdaInBlack:

    Am I the only one who has never heard of Harlan Crow before?

    Never heard of the guy before this current controversy.

     

    Oddly, I have: and in fact, have actually met him (Only a couple of times: my gallery worked on an art-related project for one of Trammell Crow’s Dallas buildings forty years ago: most of my dealings were with his office/people/assistants).

    Though I never caught any hint of any political leanings, the Crows were rich Texas developers: it was unlikely that many/any of them were flaming leftists…. ISTM that Harlan has kept his political/ideological support programs fairly under-the-media-radar til now.  No more, I’m guessing.

     

    PS: just my personal opinion, but I think the facile dismissal of Crow as a “neo-Nazi” is a bit glib and likely inaccurate (though how inaccurate is debatable) – I agree with that comment that Crow collecting Hitler paintings or kitsch Communist statuary is less salient an in issue that his “collecting” of a SCOTUS Justice…

  162. 162.

    sdhays

    April 10, 2023 at 8:58 am

    I’m sure this thread is dead, but…you don’t spend all of that money for a private shrine to Nazis because you hate them. Harlan Crow has this personal collection because, as Marie Kondo puts it, it gives him joy.

    Oh, and it’s not very convincing when neo-fascists claim that their buddy with a Nazi fetish hates evil in ALL FORMS, INCLUDING FASCISM.

  163. 163.

    Betty

    April 10, 2023 at 9:05 am

    @J R in WV: This is coming late, but wishing you the very best of luck!!

  164. 164.

    Chris Johnson

    April 10, 2023 at 9:36 am

    @David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch: Bingo. Where’s his life-size Idi Amin animatronic? Funny how a bunch of conservatives would mysteriously not have a whole bunch of Castro in their ‘name and shame garden’.

    ‘dictators we think a lot about’ garden just wouldn’t have the right flavor with black faces in there. I wonder if my guess here is legit. Does he have a bunch of African dictator memorabilia, or South American? Or does he just like certain kinds of dictators that feel right to him?

  165. 165.

    artem1s

    April 10, 2023 at 9:41 am

    @different-church-lady: ​

    Why are all these super-rich people so very WEIRD??

    We hear more about the very weird ones. Soros is a great example of an extremely rich guy who, but for the ReichWingNut screeching about Sorobucks all day every day, no one would know anything thing about him. I have no idea where he makes his money. I do know he has very little to hide because he release ALL his tax returns going back to when he was TWELVE because TFG was claiming he couldn’t possibly because release his before the election for….reasons….I imagine we’re hearing a lot more about the ones who were aligned with GOPer causes, crypto failures, and Epstein right now because all the dirty laundry tends to come out when the shit is hitting the fan. TFG’s indictment is making a lot of big money people very, very nervous.​

  166. 166.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    April 10, 2023 at 9:50 am

    @artem1s:

    TFG’s indictment is making a lot of big money people very, very nervous.​

    Good.

  167. 167.

    Tenar Arha

    April 10, 2023 at 9:52 am

    @J R in WV: Another late best wishes for your chemo. And all the luck!

  168. 168.

    Jay C

    April 10, 2023 at 10:29 am

    @Chris Johnson:

    From reports I’ve read, Harlan Crow’s “Garden of Evil” is populated mostly by ex-Communist-Dictator statuary which he was able to pick up (relatively cheaply) from former East-Bloc countries: most of the works were likely to simply end up on the scrap heap (or the recycling foundry) – Castro statues are probably still occupying pedestals in Cuba.

  169. 169.

    StringOnAStick

    April 10, 2023 at 11:16 am

    @Jay C: Now it makes a tiny bit of sense; his buying up these statues on the cheap is how an arrogant rich guy makes fun of these figures and of how far the country that produced them has fallen. I can see it now; “these stupid bastards sold me this crap because they’re scrambling for food because they were dumb enough to have followed these leaders!  Ha! Morons and untermenchen !”

  170. 170.

    The Very Reverend Crimson Fire of Compassion

    April 10, 2023 at 11:58 am

    @J R in WV: Rooting for you!  Please keep us posted.

  171. 171.

    The Lodger

    April 10, 2023 at 12:14 pm

    @Chetan Murthy: massive national story   Welcome to Texas!

  172. 172.

    JustRuss

    April 10, 2023 at 12:21 pm

    I find it fascinating that the WSJ thinks superyachts, luxury trips, sprawling ranches, and elegant accommodations are “disreputable”.  When did this happen?  Will we be seeing editorials from them condemning such decadence?

  173. 173.

    The Lodger

    April 10, 2023 at 12:22 pm

    @J R in WV: Best of luck, and treat yourself well as best you can.

  174. 174.

    Paul in KY

    April 10, 2023 at 1:15 pm

    @J R in WV: Best wishes on successful outcome!!!

  175. 175.

    Paul in KY

    April 10, 2023 at 1:19 pm

    @Kriger09: Gee whiz am I surprised!

  176. 176.

    Betsy

    April 10, 2023 at 2:37 pm

    @Chetan Murthy:  I see what you are saying.

  177. 177.

    Anomalous Cowherd

    April 10, 2023 at 4:18 pm

    @J R in WV:  Good luck. I had cisplatin and radiation for OPSCC last year and I’m apparently in remission now.

    My medical oncologist didn’t know that atorvastatin provides protection from the nerve damage caused by cisplatin (which could result in loss of hearing) – but I was already taking it so that didn’t affect me. The B vitamins appear to help – but discuss that with your doctors. Also, there is some evidence that carvedilol protects you from side effects of platinum-based chemo as well. Don’t get dehydrated. Avoid taking antioxidants like vitamins C and E. There’s scant attention paid to ameliorating the side effects of chemo.

  178. 178.

    Denali5

    April 10, 2023 at 8:08 pm

    @J R IN WV,

     

    Best wishes for a successful treatment. Keep us posted.

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