I’m disappointed on multiple levels–I wanted to see Rupert on the stand being served his own intestines via a cross examination for the ages.
I wanted to see F**ker Carlson allowed to spin on a spit over coals for hours. I wanted a jury award so large only scientific notation could handle it. All Imma gonna say at this point is that I look forward to the terms of the settlement and hope that includes a continuous chryon reading “We Are Lying Shits” scrolling without end on every Fox broadcast and feed from now through November 2024 (at the least.)
The thread is, of course, open.
(And yeah–the post is drafted the way it is to evoke this image. You can thank me later.)
*The quaint notion that a news report would be held until some set hour reveals that yes, in fact, I am an old…
Image: Anonymous, Représentation d’un animal hideux qui a mangé beaucoup de monde dans un village nommé Singlais, situé à trois lieues de Caen, 1632.
JPL
Settled for less than a billion and a weak sauce apology.
Tom Levenson
@JPL: Pinning my hopes on the other case, I guess…
MazeDancer
Very sad they settled. Probably, Smartmatic will settle, too.
jackmac
Absolutely outrageous. Fox needs to held publicly accountable for the lengthy series of lies and now it’s unlikely to happen. Yeah, it’ll cost Rupert Murdoch a lot of cash, but it’s only money.
dww44
@JPL: Is this announced already?
Sure Lurkalot
Wanted it to be about the lying and it was just about the money. So surprised on this day ending in “y”.
trollhattan
I can’t be the only one envisioning Logan Roy negotiating these waters and finally yelling, “FUCK IT, settle! It’s small change.”
Steeplejack
Cash settlement is $787.5 million. I haven’t seen any word on form of the apology. I dream about Carlson, Hannity and Ingraham having to read a groveling statement on air every night for a month, with million-dollar penalties if they mumble or omit any words.
guachi
I suspect Dominion wants more than just money as their reputation was smeared. Money doesn’t bring back their reputation.
HumboldtBlue
Before we take to the streets with pitchforks, it sure seems there is more to come from this settlement than just money. There are going to be more impacts, it appears from the hints Dominion lawyers dropped.
MazeDancer
“Dominion lawyer Justin Nelson just said Fox is settling the case for $787.5 million”
Huh? What happened to 1.6?
Also, reports are 9 of the 12 jurors were people of color.
rikyrah
Sad that they settled.
trollhattan
@dww44: BBC:
“Settlement of $787.5m
Dominion lawyers have just announced Fox and Dominion have reached a settlement of $787,500,000m (£633.6m).
“The truth matters, lies have consequences,” a lawyer for Dominion says.”
Maxim
Dammit.
trollhattan
@Steeplejack: If we ever get anything more than “Mistakes were made” I’ll buy a hat and eat it.
JPL
@trollhattan: Lies have consequences and the statement Fox released said they acknowledged the judge’s statement that they lied. Imagine as a child you said to a parent that you acknowledge that they said you lied. fk
Steeplejack
@MazeDancer:
Key word is “settling.” Also, someone on MSNBC just pointed out that a guaranteed check in hand now might be worth more than a projected future payout after years of appeals and foot-dragging. I.e., present value of money.
TheronWare
I suppose Fox will keep Foxing- sigh 😔.
janesays
@MazeDancer: The likely concern was that even if they had won the full $1.6B they were seeking at trial, who knows how long it would be before they ever saw a penny of it, because Fox would almost certainly have tied it up in appeals for years.
Steeplejack
@trollhattan:
Let me dream, if only for an hour!
Stacy
Dominion CEO: “Fox has admitted telling lies.” I don’t think we’ve seen that from Fox publicly.
Citizen Alan
@MazeDancer:
To be fair, even the most favorable verdict is appealable, and aside from being reactionary ultra-conservatives, the current SCOTUS majority has expressed an interest in taking a hacksaw to libel laws, so who knows how it would have played out.
lowtechcyclist
Disappointed but hardly surprised.
PaulWartenberg
Fox and their lawyers were NEVER going to risk putting Overlord Murdoch on the witness stand. It was a question of how desperate the settlement could get.
THIS! This is what really matters. Make it so that trump is denied a venue for his “stolen election” lies. Get him to yell and scream and insist on his own defamation lawsuit against Fox Not-News to try and force them to lie for him again.
WaterGirl
Disappointing to say the least.
The one thing Fox wanted was to not have to admit publicly in black and white that they are a propaganda outlet and not a news organization.
Pretty sure Fox got what they wanted.
Dammit.
JWR
Like the rest of you, I’m holding out hope for a strong statement of fact to be read aloud on or during each of these f*ckheads segments. But we shall see what we shall see.
Kay
Disappointing.
HeleninEire
SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!! DAMN IT!!!!!!!!!! FUCK!!!!!!!!
The Moar You Know
@Stacy: nor will we. Fox CANNOT admit that in any substantive way, their whole grift ends if they do. Which is what I was hoping this trial would do. Oh well, they’re a business, not my personal white knight, and they probably have shareholders so for them, this was the right move.
Just not the right move for America.
cain
I didn’t think Dominion needed money so.. something is off. Plus how do they get their reputation back on track? Shouldn’t Fox News be making an admission that they lied ? I mean they clearly were going to lose.
delphinium
@WaterGirl: There was a case a few years ago where Karen McDougal sued Carlson for slander. Fox’s defense was of course that “given Mr. Carlson’s reputation, any reasonable viewer ‘arrive[s] with an appropriate amount of skepticism’ about the statement he makes.” So Fox already crossed this bridge and their viewers don’t seem to care that Fox/Carlson are making fools of them by lying to them each night. Rage is a hell of an addiction.
Steeplejack
Princess Leia:
raven
@cain: You know that do you?
Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg
So today, I checked into a place with a private plunge pool and a well thought out en suite acrylic art kit (because they were told by my wife that I would be into creating visual memories), saw a Cape Buffalo, a rhino with rhino baby, some impalas, some giraffes, a bunch of zebras, a young leopard and – oh, yeah – a young lion mom carrying a two month old cub that our guide said had come out the very first time today, and was definitely telling the truth because she was crying.
Of things that don’t suck, this doesn’t suck the most.😁🥰❤️
Old School
@MazeDancer:
Seems like Fox would have paid much more to keep from testifying under oath.
raven
MattF
Not surprised, since many actual lawyers have said, repeatedly, that proving actual malice to an actual jury is very very very hard. My hope is that the settlement requires statements from various Fox personalities that will trigger TFG. Is that too much to ask?
MazeDancer
@Steeplejack:
@janesays:
Yes, understand.
Huge money they actually get.
Scout211
I am okay with a settlement. Added: I am likely in the minority here, though
Elie Honig’s opinion on CNN:
Fair Economist
I don’t see how that’s enough. Dominion’s business has been totally wrecked by Fox’s libel.
HeleninEire
Here’s what should be in the settlement: anytime someone on Fox even hints that the election was stolen…an additional $100 million; for each offence. And if it’s Donald Trump make that $200 million. For a month at the top of EVER Fox program the host must say that the court has ruled that they all lied.
Skepticat
Not surprising but very disappointing. There never seem to be actual, impactful consequences for really bad behavior. I don’t imagine TFG will suffer any either.
Sure Lurkalot
@The Moar You Know: I read today they sold out to private equity and founders kept a 25% stake. I’ll see if I can track that down but if that’s the case, seems like risk of trial or appeals was real and Benjamins rule as usual.
zhena gogolia
@Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg: Wait, I didn’t know the next season of White Lotus had already dropped!
CaseyL
To repeat what I said in the thread below, considering that Dominion employees had to hire security details because they were getting death threats, I am absolutely gobsmacked that Dominion didn’t want to gut Fox and drag it around by its entrails.
Oh, well.
I do wonder what effect this will have on all the other lawsuits swirling around Fox. Not just Semantic, but the producer who they lied to, lied about, and deleted her emails.
Renie
Fox News Statement: “We acknowledge the court’s rulings finding certain claims about Dominion to be false. This settlement reflects Fox’s continued commitment to the highest journalistic standards.”
Sounds a little bit like they are saying what they said about Dominion was false but that’s it.
zhena gogolia
@raven: Cool.
Dan B
The judge appointed a Special Master. That investigation will continue into I withholding information at discovery.
Lapassionara
I just saw that Dominion also has lawsuits pending against Giuliani, etc. so there is more fun to be had, although I doubt Rudy has any personal wealth to lose. What scum.
p.a.
IANAL, but
I stayed at Holiday InnI’ve been on civil trial potential juries 4 times, and in 3 the settlement was made after a jury was picked but before any trial activity. The court officers all said it happens a lot. A game of “chicken” I guess.(2 I was a juror, 2 I was back in the lounge when the chosen group came in looking disappointed.)
Burnspbesq
@MazeDancer:
Dominion was never in a million years going to be able to prove damages in any amount remotely resembling 1.6B. Even if they could somehow manage it, the present value of 1.6B after all appeals are exhausted and Fox drags out a frivolous Chapter 11 case case is less than $787.5M at any reasonable discount rate.
scav
@HeleninEire: But isn’t the (admittedly extravagant) lying about the election rather peripheral to the actual case here which is the harm Fox did to Dominion’s reputation?
JPL
@Renie: All they did is acknowledge that the court did, not that they did. They certainly did not accept that what they did was wrong.
Scout211
@Lapassionara:
It will be interesting to see how all those parties react to the Fox settlement.
Baud
@p.a.:
I think that’s right.
Renie
@JPL:
Good point
schrodingers_cat
As for the case not much to say except it was not unexpected. Fox News works on white people, because it is says what many of them believe. It gives voice to their visceral fears. It doesn’t work that much on other demographics to the extent it does on older white people.
Since this is a Levenson post where he posts art, I am going to share my first attempt at coloring a Kerby Rosanes illustration.
Comments and critiques welcome.
Betty Cracker
@Scout211: It’s far less than a fourth of Fox News’s quarterly earnings. It’s good for Dominion, which is the party that had standing in the case, so in that sense, it’s not a disappointment. But it would be in the public interest to expose these lying propagandists for who they are, but I guess the law doesn’t give a fuck about that.
delphinium
@Scout211: Yeah, as much as it would have been nice to put some of the Fox folks in the hot seat, I doubt it would impact much of their overall viewership. It is already beyond obvious that they are far more invested in propaganda rather than news. I’d much rather see them booted from the White House press room and cable not including Fox in their basic package. But neither of those will probably happen either.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
That’s only if your net worth is over, say, $50 million. I could steal 100 bucks out a register right now and get in life-altering trouble.
Burnspbesq
@raven:
Holy shit. That’s grounds for disbarment.
WaterGirl
@Scout211: I don’t have a lot of respect for Elie Honig’s opinion in general, but I have no idea whether he is correct here or not.
This isn’t even half of what Dominion asked for. With the appointment of a special master for Fox, as happened earlier this week, I would think that would have totally upped the ante for Fox and they would have paid a much higher amount not to have a special master who would be able to interview anyone at Fox. Under oath.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
Not in a private dispute. Can’t force Dominion to litigate.
jonas
I think Dominion also has suits pending against Rudy Giuliani and that wackaloon My Pillow guy Mike Lindell as well, both of whom have been just as, if not more, explicit than the Fox crew in claiming Dominion conspired to fix the election. It will be interesting to see how this affects those cases. Will they double down, or will this scare the shit out of them and have them scrambling to settle as well? I can see Giuliani just caving and going “oh well, I was mistaken, I guess Dominion is ok or whatever” but Lindell is certifiable. He’ll never back down so I can see that going to trial and it ending about as well as things did for Alex Jones.
Anonymous At Work
@MazeDancer: IAAL (but don’t quote me on the law) Smartmatic is asking $2.6 billion AND they are going after several hosts personally. So, we might see Fox executives vs. hosts in a battle royale on damages. And FOX is now exposed on a lot of areas for Smartmatic to exploit. Finally, Dominion is likely to require an admission of guilt and apologies from Fox that will play at the Smartmatic trial, or factor into the settlement.
David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch
This was an easy case to win at trial, but then it would end up in appeals forever and then this corrupt supreme court would have nullified the judgement.
So bird in the hand vs corrupt supreme court in the bush
janesays
@Fair Economist: It’s nearly 40 times their annual revenue. Dominion is not a huge company.
Another Scott
@p.a.: I heard similar things when I was in a jury pool for a civil case. The judge specifically thanked us for being there and helping encourage the parties to come to a settlement.
Like in many human endeavors, deadlines focus the mind.
It’s good they didn’t bury the terms of the settlement in some NDA here. That’s important.
Cheers,
Scott.
jonas
@WaterGirl: I think Dominion was basically asking for the moon in the original suit and figuring if they won, it would probably be reduced considerably on appeal, which these things always are, and which would have taken who knows how many more years. This is a pretty huge settlement, imho. I just hope it included having to make a clear, unambiguous statement that they knowingly mislead their viewers about Dominion voting machines. What I’ve seen so far is kind of milquetoasty.
MattF
However, Trump remains fixated on his claim that the election was rigged. I’d guess this means no more interviews with Fucker Carlson.
MomSense
Once we saw some of the goods Dominion had on Fox from discovery, this case was never going to go to trial. Fox had no choice but to settle and even if Dominion won twice the amount at trial, the appeals shenanigans would have gone on forever.
They had to cough up a good chunk of change and this bodes well for Smartmatic.
Who knows we may get a big corporate shakeup out of this as well.
delphinium
@Another Scott: Yeah, like many others, this is what happened for a jury I sat on. We were all ready to go and then got the announcement that a settlement had been reached, so no trial.
cope
@Betty Cracker: Although the original source is disputed, “…the law is (such) an ass.”
Roger Moore
@p.a.:
I was recently on a civil jury that actually reached a verdict. One of the things I never appreciated before is that the jury is really on its own for the damages calculation. We had some help with the economic damages, though not enough, but for non-economic damages we were more or less told to wing it. Each side presented their idea of how much the damages ought to be, but their estimates differed by a factor of about 100x. The court told us we were on our own and just had to figure this stuff based on our common sense.
Nobody knows what would have come out of the jury if they had ruled in Dominion’s favor. They might have decided to give Dominion 100% of Fox’s profits since the election, or they might have decided Dominion shouldn’t get more than the company itself was worth. It would be a complete crapshoot. I can completely understand why both sides would want to settle.
Kelly
@p.a.: I was selected as a juror for one civil trial. Homeowner vs remodeling contractor. Selected in the morning. Went out for lunch. On our return the Judge thanked us for our time and told us the parties had settled. Judge spoke for a few minutes about settling was a good thing and commonplace.
Burnspbesq
@Another Scott:
That would have been difficult. Fox is a public company, with disclosure obligations under Federal securities law. It’s going to have to file an 8-K, and there are limits on how cute you can be without pissing off the SEC.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
Money is fake and the truth has value beyond measure. The way this world operates, you’d think the reverse was true.
Suzanne
@David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch:
Phrasing.
Unfortunately not as remote a possibility as I would like.
Hoodie
@Burnspbesq: Yeah, I’m kind of surprised they got this much, but I guess it shows how desperate Fox was to avoid having Rupert and others testify. For those who are disappointed, this is probably as good as could be expected. Dominion has shareholders and their management could not walk away from this much sure cash.
trollhattan
Turns out Dominion has more irons in the fire than you’d find at a rustlers convention.
Betty Cracker
@Baud: Right, and even as a non-lawyer, I understand that the public wasn’t a party to this suit. My point is there’s a public interest here that apparently cannot be served in any other way, and that sucks.
Gvg
All i hope is that the settlement has contingencies built in so that fox has to actually pay quickly and make satisfactory we were lying statements right away, or else Dominion gets to keep everything AND the case is back on. They can’t let the pressure off fox till they have their money plus they need to be able to still provexto the public that future lies are lies. In other words, no nondisclosure agreement.
Because fox is not going to shut up, Dominion shouldn’t promise to either.
PJ
@Citizen Alan: I bet Dominion’s lawyers did not want to give the S. Ct. a chance to gut libel law and/or reduce the ultimate amount of damages.
trollhattan
Fox didn’t quite switch to “Benny Hill” reruns but they did wave this off in that Fox News America’s Most Trusted fashion.
“Settlement schmettlement, Hunter Biden’s laptop just shot a cop!”
gwangung
@trollhattan: Wonder if Dominion will play harder ball with the small fry? Particularly if they have Fox money in their pocket?
NotMax
“Dominion is the warmest, kindest, most wonderful company we ever knew.”
//
UncleEbeneezer
@Roger Moore: Yup. I was on a civil jury last Summer and same thing. Defendant caused an auto accident that put Plaintiff in hospital. Defendant admitted liability so all we had to decide was damages. But Plaintiff had been in a couple other accidents in the past too so determining which accidents caused which injuries was tricky. And there were some holes in his story (including saying he was totally healed in a deposition for another accident before our trial). Anyways, our discussions on what to give him for the mental/emotional damages (he definitely deserved something) was just complete guesswork and basically making up numbers until we could find one we all agreed on. And we all just wanted to go home after 8 days, so we probably cut our discussions shorter than they should’ve been.
RSA
Like everyone else, I’m disappointed. I don’t like it, but corporations are amoral entities. I doubt that any angle other than profit has been considered throughout this case.
narya
I’m gonna express a minority opinion: I think this is a good thing. The biggest risk Dominion faced was losing the trial. The second-biggest risk they faced was winning, but (a) not getting much in damages and/or (b) needing to spend a whole lot of time on appeals, tracking down the money, etc. Dominion losing would have been MUCH worse than either of the other two–this way, it’s all getting reported essentially as “Dominion prevailed,” and that won’t help the defendants in the other trials. A lot of the discovery was already out there, and is still out there.
UncleEbeneezer
I’m gonna go ahead and be happy for this, solely based on the people who are mad about this: Conservatives and Progressives/Dems who are quick to label every result a catastrophic failure, like Oliver Willis just to name one. I’m not sure what exactly people think Fox admitting they lied would accomplish. Maybe five less viewers?
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
It would be nice if our economic structure were more responsive to moral and societal concerns.
Didn’t Manchin just torpedo a bill that would have simply allowed, not required, allowed financial managers to weigh a particular major societal concern when making trading decisions?
A Good Woman
Reported at CNN
“Fox anchors not required to acknowledge lies told about Dominion as part of settlement, Dominion rep says
From CNN’s Oliver Darcy
Fox News anchors will not have to acknowledge on-air that it told election lies about Dominion Voting Systems as part of the terms of its settlement, a representative for the election technology company told CNN.
Fox News did acknowledge in its statement that falsehoods were broadcast.
But top anchors at the right-wing talk channel will not be required as part of the settlement to acknowledge on air the lies broadcast in the wake of the 2020 election.”
This part is really disappointing.
gene108
@Betty Cracker:
Revenue ≠ profit.
Every company that goes bankrupt has earnings, just not enough to cover expenses.
I skimmed Fox’s latest 10k filing. Net income for fiscal years 2020 was $890 million, 2021 was $2,249 million, and 2022 was $1,297.
$787.5 million is a lot of money based on Fox’s profits.
Unfortunately the rest of the media rushes to defend Fox News anytime people in government, who could show they’re a propaganda outfit, tries to shunt or expose Fox News.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
Are you suggesting that Fox News viewers aren’t responsive to hard facts?
UncleEbeneezer
Six years?!! Thanks Garland, pft…
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@UncleEbeneezer: Wait, does this mean I still have to be worried about crimes I committed 6 years ago?
Roger Moore
@UncleEbeneezer:
That sounds a lot like the case I was in. It was also a car accident (car vs pedestrian) where the driver* admitted liability and the plaintiff had a complicated injury history prior to the accident. The plaintiff in my case also had some credibility issues about how well he had recovered from his previous accident and how badly disabled he was by the accident involved in the case. So we first had to figure out how badly hurt he really was and then how much that damage was worth to him.
*Well, the driver’s estate, since he died of unrelated causes shortly after the accident.
raven
@delphinium: Yep, me too.
JaySinWA
@Lapassionara: But I bet they can hope to make Rudy squeal like a pig. He could do a lot of damage to Trump and Fox if he is squeezed hard enough.
Burnspbesq
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation:
If he/she isn’t, I’ll be happy to.
raven
@UncleEbeneezer: God I hate agreeing with you.
FelonyGovt
As a retired civil lawyer, I’m not at all surprised. Most civil cases settle because otherwise (a) liability, (b) damages, and (c) being able to recover those damages promptly without waiting through years of appeals are all too uncertain. The settlement is for a healthy amount, given the size of Dominion as a company.
I would have loved to have Fox dragged through weeks of embarrassing and damaging testimony, but that was probably too much to ask.
Burnspbesq
@UncleEbeneezer:
Try again. Those are state charges.
Curious to hear what part(s) of Title 18 you think was/were implicated, and how you would go about proving it.
UncleEbeneezer
@Roger Moore: Wow! Yes, VERY similar. Ours was made worse by the fact that we weren’t even allowed to see the medical bills, when making our determination. We could only go on witness testimony of what the various procedures usually cost. We also were instructed by the judge that we couldn’t consider whether or not insurance covered any of it (pursuant to CA law, I believe).
karen marie
@trollhattan: Apparently Fox made $5.6 Billion last quarter alone.
I’m baffled why Dominion settled. It certainly isn’t the money. And Fox Corp. is already downplaying their slander – “We acknowledge the court’s rulings finding certain claims about Dominion to be false.”
I take the implication to be that some claims were true.
How can such a statement comport with any settlement?
@JPL: You missed the asterisk: “certain claims,” not all.
UncleEbeneezer
@Burnspbesq: I was being sarcastic and mocking the legal ignorance that so often is evident in the most noxious Garland-haters.
NotMax
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation
“We distort, you abide.”
//
raven
@karen marie:
FelonyGovt
APRIL 18, 2023 AT 6:07 PM
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
Brilliance.
karen marie
@Scout211: It’s a “jaw-dropping number” to any of us but to Fox, it’s nothing. It’s not even a quarter of the revenue from the last quarter.
That’s what gets me.
Roger Moore
@UncleEbeneezer:
The economic damages in our case was only for future medical expenses. As in your case, it was difficult because we didn’t have a lot of evidence to go on. The plaintiff brought in a medical billing expert to estimate what the cost should be, and the defense tried, mostly unsuccessfully, to bring up some charges mentioned on the doctor’s web site. It would have been a lot better if the defense had brought in their own billing expert to give their own estimate. We all thought the estimated cost was inflated, but it was really the only evidence we had to go on.
pajaro
I’m with the minority. It’s an absolutely huge settlement, many multiples of times greater than Dominion’s annual income or the value of the company. It’s the first time in its history that FOX has had to pay for the lies it has spewed. In the meantime, the rest of us have a court ruling that the claims were false. The information that was revealed in discovery that they knew it was false is all out there. If it had gone to trial, Fox wouldn’t have covered it, so it’s not as if their viewers were reachable in any event. If Fox had lost at trial, they would proclaim themselves First Amendment martyrs and go on to years of appeals, which a decent chance they might win along the way. There are going to be more Dominion trials of some of the people who were spouting lies, and Smartmatic is up next against FOX with a 2 billion dollar suit.
This is a very, very good start.
TriassicSands
Odds against FOX changing its ways: At least 787,500,000 to 1.
They can afford to do this over and over again. To Fox viewers, if they ever even hear about this settlement, it will just be one more case of the deep state victimizing the Right.
The Left is right; the Right is wrong.
Lapassionara
@JaySinWA: That’s a nice thought. I am watching MSNBC, and Nick Ackerman is totally a Pollyanna about this settlement. His point is that Fox has insurance for claims like these, and its insurers are going to lean on the network to clean up its act. As if!
Hoodie
@karen marie: Fox’s size is irrelevant as to compensating Dominion for its losses, which is measured by their sales (past and projected ongoing). Fox’s profits from lying might be relevant for punitives, but punitives are a crapshoot and very often get knocked down on appeal.
Other MJS
@pajaro: According to this, Dominion’s 2022 revenue (not income) was $17.5 million.
Other MJS
@pajaro: According to this, Dominion’s 2022 revenue (not income) was $17.5 million.
Sure Lurkalot
@Roger Moore: @UncleEbeneezer:
Uncanny…similar trial for me too!
I was on a jury…auto accident where plaintiff claimed she was unable to work due to back injuries, pain and trauma. The defendent didn’t dispute he caused the accident.
Plaintiff’s counsel emphasized again and again how the plaintiff had a sad life filled with abuse and neglect with the result that the jury couldn’t determine whether it was her life or the accident that caused her trauma or how much of each. Also, the plaintiff came to court every day in very high heels which the jury noted seemed to belie her back pain claims.
In the end, I (as foreman) had to talk my fellow jurors into awarding her a nominal sum of money mostly to cover her shitty lawyer fees. A better lawyer would have made a better case on the merits and would have counseled her on what to wear.
The judge called the jury into chambers, thanked us and told us he thought we got it right.
trollhattan
@gwangung: Think it’s a good question. They must feel emboldened by this success and with that that particular group of knuckleheads, I’m guessing they have said things far beyond what Fox has been caught/admitted to saying.
May they all sleep poorly, from today forward. Nighty night, Pillow Guy.
raven
@Sure Lurkalot: The Fortune Cookie!
gwangung
@trollhattan: Yeah, there was never a chance they could take Fox down or even do them critical damage (though this is gonna hurt).
But the others? Well, I’m wondering if they COULD survive…..
Sure Lurkalot
@raven: Yes! And a football movie (ok, not really).
Scout211
IANAL, but I noticed that (at least so far), there has been no boilerplate statement by Fox News that you hear so often in cases like this. “This settlement, blah, blah, blah, is in no way an admission of guilt, blah, blah, blah.” They agreed that there were lies told (“oops, the judge caught us”) and did not make that boilerplate denial of guilt. Again, not the win we all wanted but a win, IMO.
raven
@Sure Lurkalot: Boom Boom Jackson and Archie Moore!
Layer8Problem
@TriassicSands:
This is exactly my take in the minor argument I just had with my partner.
Partner: “Sure they got a pile of money, but Fox doesn’t seem to have to admit they lied on the air! Their viewers will never know they were lied to!”
Layer8: “Even if the settlement compelled every Fox anchor to admit lying hourly wearing sackcloth and ashes, their viewers will just say ‘of course they had to do that, the Deep State MADE them do that!'”
Then we got into an argument about whether Deep State should only refer to the Government or could more comprehensively refer to any and all manifestations of the World Wide Woke Conspiracy, up to and including the guy wearing a mask on the line for the ATM.
Baud
@Layer8Problem:
Balloon Juice!
narya
Here’s another angle: While we all wanted Faux’s misdeeds to be aired repeatedly, WE are already convinced they are scum–and their viewers are not going to be swayed by such an airing. For one thing, they’d never see it, because they only watch Faux or its ilk–but they can’t help but get some wind of the settlement. This is actual punishment for their misdeeds: not as much as we would like (and they deserve), but tangible nevertheless. Nothing about this trial was going to convince any of their viewers to change the channel, and damages were never going to be enough to hurt the company’s bottom line.
Geminid
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: That’s kind of what Manchin tried to do. The Labor Department issued a rule that rescinded a Trump administration rule prohibiting retirement managers from incorporating so called “ESG” factors in their investment decisions. Under the new rule, managers are allowed (but not required) to incorporate climate or social factors into investment decisions.
The Congressional Review Act allows Congress to nullify recently issued rules with majority votes. So in early March, Joe Manchin and John Tester joined the Republican minority on a resolution that would knock out the new rule. The House passed the resolution with Democrat Jared Golden joining the majority.
Joe Biden vetoed the bill a couple weeks later. His message pointed out that the prohibition would require retirement fund managers to ignore well-evidenced risk factors, “disregarding the principles of free markets and jeopardizing the life savings of working families and retirees.”
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
Wondering if rage addiction is an actionable claim. Class action suit against Faux by everyone who lost family members to this harmful addiction.
That channel should carry a Surgeon General’s warning.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Geminid: I’m glad the levers of power and structural advantage in this case, for once, was on the side of the angels. Granted, when these things are done by regulation, an administration with a different regulatory approach can change it back.
Sure Lurkalot
@FelonyGovt:
Yeah, the drip drip drip every day would’ve gotten me up some mornings. But I do agree that they won’t lose viewers. Fox viewers either don’t know or don’t care they’re being lied to. I don’t know how you could watch that lineup any other way.
Layer8Problem
@Baud: Speaking of which, I haven’t received my ColeBucks check for the week. I’ve got my eye on a fleet of chinchilla-trimmed Jet Skis and Deep Stating doesn’t come free, you know what I mean?
Geminid
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: It was Joe Biden’s first veto.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Geminid: A worthy veto.
Roger Moore
@Sure Lurkalot:
Our case was interesting in part because the previous injuries (sustained at work) meant the plaintiff had before and after MRI. Probably the most important thing was that even the defense expert agreed the damage to the plaintiff’s back was worse after the accident than before. The different experts all used terminology differently, but it was clear from the testimony and from the exhibits that the plaintiff had been injured in the accident.
Probably the most effective line in the defense’s case was their argument that the plaintiff wasn’t going to get surgery. He had delayed and delayed treatment, and the defense argued he was never going to get surgery because he was afraid of anyone working close to his spine. It was a surprisingly persuasive argument that made a lot of jurors question if we should award the plaintiff for the surgery.
I argued this shouldn’t matter. The jury instructions said we were supposed to give damages for whatever treatment was medically necessary, not for whatever treatment the patient was likely to receive. The medical experts, even the defense expert, agreed he was going to need surgery. That meant he was entitled to enough money to pay for surgery even if he was afraid to get it. That argument succeeded in winning the day, so it was only a question of how much the surgery was likely to cost.
delphinium
@narya: Heck, in a lawsuit a couple years back, Fox’s lawyers basically said no level-headed person would believe what Tucker Carlson says (ie, he’s a liar). So yeah, even if this case had gone to trial, doubtful any viewers would have been swayed by testimony. I suppose deep down, many of them know they are being lied to but they just don’t care enough to switch the channel.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
From personal experience with some Fox viewers I’m very close with: you can debunk 100s of lies and not only will they not amend their views or viewing habits, they won’t amend their arguments to reflect the newly acquired facts, they’ll cling to the lie.
A recent fun one I had to deal with was a claim Kamala Harris was telling people not to take the COVID vaccine. Debunked by the viewers’ own “proof*” and they saw it. Heard the claim again a week later from the lead Fox viewing participant in the discussion.
*Original video, primary sourcing for the win. And OMG, the time I tried to explain what a primary source was…
RaflW
@trollhattan: “Dominion Voting Systems still has lawsuits against Newsmax and the One America News Network.
They have also sued Rudy Giuliani, Sidney Powell and Mike Lindell – all allies of Donald Trump who shared false claims about Dominion following Joe Biden’s presidential win.
They all deny wrongdoing and plan to fight the lawsuits.”
Meanwhile, Dominion will shortly have a most prodigious retainer that can offer the firm that is going to spit-roast Powell, Lindell and Giuliani. A sum that will finance a fleet of lawyers, with plenty left over to revamp the voting machine business, pay handsome bonuses to employees and cover shareholder value nicely.
JoyceH
@delphinium:
What I want to see is Fox banned from military bases, where it is insanely prevalent. I guess banning from base housing would be a bridge too far, but at least get it off the televisions in the office spaces! Consider that in two cases just in the past few days, we’ve seen weird misconduct from military members – the gaming chat leaks and then the reveal that a pro-Kremlin information source was actually being generated by a woman who just recently left the US Navy. Keep this mind poison out of the military, for pete’s sake!
Jackie
At the very least Faux should be made to remove *News* from their title!
(stomps foot)
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
The young man encountered some classified information during the course of his work and decided to bring it home to feel like a big guy.
What’s wrong with that? It’s exactly what Trump did.
Baud
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation:
I get they’re crazy, but that particular lie doesn’t seem to fit within the wingnut universe.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Baud: What she actually said was that she wouldn’t take the vaccine on Trump’s say-so alone, she’d follow the recommendations of the medical community.
When leaving off the part about following the advise of the medical community, it fits in a both-sidesy sense; that the partisan split over vaccination would exist and be reversed if Trump were reelected.
delphinium
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation:
A republican friend of mine (not a Trumper) told me that she and her boyfriend watch Fox & CNN (BOTH SIDES!). I told her about that lawsuit basically stating Fox’s viewpoint that Tucker Carlson is a known liar. So yeah, keep watching Fox if you want but you aren’t getting any kind of actual “news”.
Baud
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation:
Oh, I remember that. I also get that we don’t trust Republicans so they feel like they can do the same.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
Both sides? The right and the far right? The distortion and the equivocation? Money and money?
delphinium
@JoyceH:
Thanks-I keep forgetting about Fox’s prevalence on military bases and agree, they should be banned in the office spaces there.
jayne
One hopes that a good chunk of that settlement finds itself in Dominion employees’ pockets. Humiliating your enemies is cathartic, but it don’t pay the rent.
delphinium
@The Kropenhagen Interpretation: That was my friend’s interpretation, that CNN was more left leaning and Fox was more right leaning; so she was covering the bases so to speak.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
::Chuckles darkly::
RaflW
@Betty Cracker: I know it’s an uphill slog, but the Dominion suit getting settled — hopefully without an NDA and maybe with some public admission by Fox — could help with the nascent effort to get Fox’s carry fees reduced.
Argue that they damaged goods and aren’t worth the inflated costs to put them on the cable grid.
And the public has to keep pushing DoD and the different branches directly to get lying Fox TF Off base TVs in common areas.
RaflW
@RSA: Looking at Anheuser-Busch and their $1.6M to Republicans before we saw even the first $40K to Democrats, I disagree that corporations are outside a moral framework.
Gvg
I hope that the results of this suit finding hard evidence that Fox people knew they were telling lies, with recordings AND that they tried to suppress evidence in discovery gets held against them in every lawsuit from here on out. They lied to the judge. Other attorneys should be bringing these facts up in every lawsuit after this and asking for more discovery etc. IANAL but it seems to me that could bleed them more.
janesays
@Fair Economist:
Dominion has annual revenue of about $20 million. This is nearly 40 times the amount they make in any given year.
Jeffro
Here’s a thought: post news of the settlement far and wide and ESPECIALLY where your RWNJ friends and relatives will see it, and just ask, “hmm…why’d they settle if trump really had a case (or even if there was any doubt)?”
This message has been brought to you by the Department of Cognitive Dissonance, GQP Division.
James E Powell
Even if the case had gone to trial and ended in a verdict against FOX, they would still continue to be a cornucopia of right-wing lies & propaganda. The audience for that is still there, still loyal, and FOX owns them.
laura
The parties in the dispute reached a settlement they each believe is in their respective best interests. Nobody is happy with the outcome. Negotiated Settlement 101. It tracks with my two decades of experience.
Mike in NC
Was hoping that everybody working at FOX would be standing in the unemployment line next month. Damn.
RSA
Hmm. It seems obvious that I haven’t thought things all the way through. Thanks for your observation.
Uncle Cosmo
And the Far Right is far wrong.
Been saying all that for years. Belongs on a bumpersticker IMHO.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
MeidasTouch tends to make me feel better, they’re good at unraveling the legal consequence of things and why they might be more serious than it would appear to a naive observer (myself).
So I see this new video with a promising title (“Fox gets CRUSHED in Devastating MAJOR Dominion UPDATE”) and thumbnail. I’m going to check it out.
oldgold
This was a tremendous settlement for Dominion.
Before Dominion was libeled by Fox it had a value of roughly $80,000,000. As such, they are receiving a damage settlement that totals 10 times the company’s value!
There is absolutely no way you can turn an offer like that down.
David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch
@janesays:
that’s not even pure profit, that’s just revenue. Moreover, the present value of receiving an annual $20,000,000 payment in perpetuity, which last time I looked is a long time, is $400 million.
The amount they won is yuge. Far more than what they would have received as a successful going concern.
David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch
@oldgold:
This.
Subsole
@CaseyL:
Review your words:
Dominion employees.
Not owners.
Not shareholders.
cmorenc
At Faux News website this evening, there is absolutely NO mention whatever of the Dominion settlement or anything related to the suit. Instead, the lead story is about how much income the Bidens really make. Second story is about what LBGTs are demanding from the University of Pittsburgh, complete with large image of LBGT flag…placed so said flag image is easily visible below the chyron for the Biden income story.
Chief Oshkosh
@Sure Lurkalot:
My experience with these mooks is that Fox and the other RW media are sort of like cheerleaders leading the diehard fans. Regardless of whether the team is play-off worthy or in-the-basement losers, the cheerleaders lead the fans in cheering. In losing years, or decades, the fans know that the team sucks, they know that the cheers are empty words, but it’s all very comforting, non-challenging, and bias-confirming.
Go Team, Go!
raven
Spanky
Ho hummmm (big yawn)
Up in the morning, just about 4,
I put on my shoes and I’m out the door.
Life is such a terrible bore….I’m a garbageman.
Ridin on the garbage truck with my friend, Lou,
He says “Say, baby, you lookin kinda blue!”
“yeah, man, don’t this job ever get to you?
I mean all this garbage!”
(Oh no baby!)
He said “Hold on Jim, I got just the thing you need!
Here, baby, take a puff of this funny lookin’ little weed.
Go on, man, smoke it, the first one’s free!”
Oh well thank you!
Well the sun was risin, shinin in the sky
Garbage truck was drawin flies
I didn’t care, I was ridin high
I was out of it, stoned, swino, wasted
Well, everything’s cool now, nothing’s wrong.
Garbage stinks, but I float along
Singing this happy, happy song –
Pot’s too good to be just for the young!
janesays
@gene108: Also worth noting that the net income figures you listed are for Fox Corporation, which is a far bigger entity than just Fox News. It includes both the broadcast network and Fox Sports, which are both massive operations independent of Fox News.
janesays
@karen marie: That’s not remotely close to true. Fox Corporation’s revenue for all of 2021 was $12.1 billion – and that’s the entire company, not just Fox News. Revenue is all of the money that comes into a company in a given amount of time before a single expense is factored in. Once expenses (ie Tucker Carlson’s paycheck, and the paychecks of their other 9,000 employees) are factored in, the actual net income is a fraction of that $12.1B.
$787M is gonna be pretty substantial hit to their 2023 balance sheet.
cckids
I’m pretty sure Dominion’s owners are staunch Republicans. They want their cash, sure, and want people to know that Fox was lying about THEM, but . . . they don’t actually want Fox taken down.
BellyCat
Tom… You captured my EXACT emotion upon hearing the settlement news. Thank you.
Quinerly
@oldgold:
Nailed it.
Ruckus
@Steeplejack:
3/4 of a billion in the hand is worth more than 1 billion 5 yrs down the road. And it might have cost them 1/4 billion in lawyers fees and such by a suit decision and payout time.
Considering that if fox thought it was in any way a winnable suit they might have thrown a lot of money at it. And they did get 3/4 of a billion which means fox likely thought they would lose. What if they went all the way and ended up with 1/2 a billion? A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush. Technically fox may not have admitted fault but the public perception should be that they did, by paying 3/4 of a billion up front.
Ruckus
@Fair Economist:
Has it actually been ruined? They have a shit ton of money to do with as they please. Make their machines better, improve the process. They did actually get a public notice that they were correct by settling for this much money. And if they are out of business the share holders will get a pretty good payout.
Yes it isn’t an open admission by fox that they fucked up, but it might as well be. As others have said they sued for possible/likely future income and that is a tough nut to crack in court unless the company is an old and valuable company with a rather positive history in the first place, and this one isn’t all that. Should it have been more? Sure it should have wiped out the old man for his decades of shit. But even an admission and 1.6 billion wasn’t going to do that. Until the way fox operates ends this is still a big deal.
Yes I know that we all want fox to fold and go directly to hell, to burn in damnation and 2,000 degree flames but the likely hood of that happening is rather slim. This world allows people and companies to be shit. fox and rupert are just leading the pack as some of the stinkiest shit on the planet.
Ruckus
@p.a.:
I was once alternate on a criminal trial jury and had to sit in the box for days and listen to lawyers and family and then sit outside the jury room till the actual jury made a decision. I felt they made the right one btw, but still it isn’t something one wants to do as much as we think we do. I’ve also been on a trial that the guy copped before we had to make a decision. I think he thought he’d get a lighter sentence. I was also called up for duty for a first degree murder trial but that guy copped before we even went to jury selection.
I really don’t want to do this ever again. It is a pretty big weight on a person. But yes it is part of being a citizen so if I was asked sure I’d show up. Imagine being on that fox/Dominion suit. That could be a very long trial, mainly because fox would likely draw it out as much as possible and how would the find a neutral jury?
Manyakitty
@Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg: wonderful 😍 enjoy!
Ruckus
@A Good Woman:
This part is really disappointing.
To me the disappointing part is that fox still exists. And that wouldn’t have been changed by this going to trial. As others have said they make a lot more money than this in a year. I do bet it really burned the old fart Rupert to make out that check but still he knows what he does and how much his entire outfit lies like the sun in the sky – every day and all day long. And this trial would not have changed that one iota or changed his concept of news of politics or anything else. He would have had to pay more, big deal so what, this is/would have been in it’s entirety, spare change to him. And Dominion would have had to pay lawyers and all that and any money would come years down the road, at a cost to them they likely would never recover. I’d bet the first offer to settle was likely half or less than this amount and I’d bet they never thought they’d get this much in the end, let alone at the start.
This settlement and amount really is a big fucking deal unless every outlet reports that Dominion got screwed. Because they really didn’t.
grubert
Civil law suits aren’t really about justice. They’re about money.