Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Anyone who bans teaching American history has no right to shape America’s future.

Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.

You cannot love your country only when you win.

They are not red states to be hated; they are voter suppression states to be fixed.

Republicans cannot even be trusted with their own money.

“Facilitate” is an active verb, not a weasel word.

Whoever he was, that guy was nuts.

Republicans want to make it harder to vote and easier for them to cheat.

President Musk and Trump are both poorly raised, coddled 8 year old boys.

You can’t attract Republican voters. You can only out organize them.

Since when do we limit our critiques to things we could do better ourselves?

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.

There are a lot more evil idiots than evil geniuses.

You know it’s bad when the Project 2025 people have to create training videos on “How To Be Normal”.

They were going to turn on one another at some point. It was inevitable.

Nothing worth doing is easy.

He really is that stupid.

This has so much WTF written all over it that it is hard to comprehend.

Do not shrug your shoulders and accept the normalization of untruths.

They think we are photo bombing their nice little lives.

Make the republican party small enough to drown in a bathtub.

Wow, you are pre-disappointed. How surprising.

The lights are all blinking red.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Thursday Morning Open Thread: Once Again, C.R.E.A.M.

Thursday Morning Open Thread: Once Again, C.R.E.A.M.

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Gift link. The Washington Post, as the company paper for the town whose main industry is national politics, is usually a pretty good source for actual details rather than preferred arguments.

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At least one McCarthy challenger has laid down her marker:

But Squeaker McCarthy can always count on his good friends in the Very Respectable Media…

Reader Interactions

225Comments

  1. 1.

    Baud

    If Biden really wants to get voters engaged, he should signal he’ll agree to what McCarthy wants.

  2. 2.

    Wanderer

    The former guy and the refacistcan party supporting him continue to be a nightmare come to life.  As with every other r presidency the r party eagerly, happily increased debt spending while cutting taxes making payment of said debt harder and harder. President Biden is being kind when he describes their demands as “wacky”.

  3. 3.

    Baud

    McCarthy told his leadership team that he wants to release bill text Wednesday detailing his party’s plan to raise the national debt limit & is pushing for a floor vote next week

    He’s releasing it on Wednesday and wants a vote by Friday.

    He couldn’t get elected Speaker than quickly.

  4. 4.

    Hildebrand

    So, how do we get to a clean increase?  What is the mechanism to get to there?  Because, right now, I don’t see how we get there.

    And yes, I know, it’s happened in the past, but we are off the map with the broad array of crazies in the Republican caucus. It feels different.

  10. 10.

    Tony Jay

    McCarthy constantly wears the expression of a man who has just returned from a 12 hour round-trip to pick up a Dulcolax prescription with the car radio stuck on ‘The Very Best of Coldplay’, only to find that his wife has won them front row tickets to their next concert.

    Not surprised he’s all yellow.

  11. 11.

    lowtechcyclist

    Once again, what does ‘C.R.E.A.M.’ stand for?

    When we used to have a glossary, I looked it up a couple of times, but have long since forgotten. So many damned acronyms!  But I looked for the glossary in the right-hand column where all the other resources are listed, and don’t see it anywhere, so I assume it’s gone.

  13. 13.

    Edmund dantes

    Crazily I don’t see how we get any clean debt ceiling increase with McCarthy as Speaker. I’m sure there are at least 5-10 House GOP that don’t care if we default if they don’t get everything they want.

    So we get to the end game. McCarthy finally realizes (huge assumption) that he doesn’t really want to blow it all up. He can’t come out with some compromise clean lift with the “moderate” GOP and full Dem votes that doesn’t immediately result in a motion to vacate from the crazies.

    We either come out the other side of this with the government defaulting on its debt or with a new speaker.

  17. 17.

    RedDirtGirl

    I have to look that CREAM acronym up every time I see it. In fact I’ve forgotten it again while typing this comment. I’m not meant to be in the 1%.

  21. 21.

    Ohio Mom

    SNAP is free money for supermarkets and indirectly, the companies that grow, produce, package, distribute, etc. food. That adds up to big money, even as the amount individuals receive is paltry.

    It’s become a cliche but the cruelty is the point.

  23. 23.

    JMG

    @Hildebrand: The simplest and IMO best way for a clean debt limit increase is for Biden to simply ignore the GOP, cite the 14th amendment provision that US debts cannot be challenged, and continue with business as usual. Let the GOP howl. This would also cause Manchin and Sinema to howl, and the usual hand-wringers caucus among Democratic legislators to do so vigorously, but “I will protect our economy and government come what may strikes me as a strong political position.

  28. 28.

    satby

    @Ohio Mom: and several states (IN is one) have programs that boost snap benefits at farmers markets for buying food.  It started as an agricultural support program after all, giving away surplus milk and cheese to prop up prices.

  29. 29.

    satby

    @Baud: if only there was some industry that could inform people on the outcomes of policies proposed instead of just replaying sound bites of what politicians say. Think of the benefit to society!

    Edit: to be clear, I know that quoting opposing politicians seems like information, but with a polarized society primed by lying “news” orgs, it just feeds the both sides lie meme.

  31. 31.

    Baud

    @satby:

    The media could be better, but in this case, I think the problem is with the people.  Too many take good government for granted and only respond when things go wrong.

    See also, abortion.

  32. 32.

    Jeffro

    @Hildebrand:how do we get to a clean increase?  What is the mechanism to get to there?  Because, right now, I don’t see how we get there.

    I think it’ll take a dozen or so GOP House members to defect and agree to vote with the Dems for a clean raise, right?

  33. 33.

    WV Blondie

    One of the things that Biden and the Dems should have done when they held the trifecta before the 2022 midterms is cancel the debt ceiling law – passed more than 80 years ago! – so the metaphorical gun is taken off the table altogether. Perhaps add it to the wishlist for something to do after the 2024 elections (fingers crossed)?

  40. 40.

    Sean

    @Jeffro:

    I think it’ll take a dozen or so GOP House members to defect and agree to vote with the Dems for a clean raise, right?

    but how would that come to the floor? It won’t with McCarthy as speaker. They’d have to vacate and replace with a speaker who’d bring it to the floor which isn’t going to happen, or a discharge petition which also probably isn’t going to happen because of the hurdles it would face timing wise. I think the most likely outcome is we default. Biden may have a plan for that eventuality, but it’s looking like that’s where we are headed.

  41. 41.

    Amir Khalid

    Hello, everyone. I’m just back from an unexpected few days in hospital for severe dehydration and exhaustion.

    I have sad news.  My niece Ina was supposed to foster Agent Scully during my hospital stay, so she’d have Ina’s own new calico kitten for company. But then Agent Scully took sick and had to be admitted to a vet hospital. She was diagnosed with bronchitis. She died yesterday.

    She was a sweet mischievous little thing, and we were just starting to get bonded. Now I’ve lost my baby giirl.

  45. 45.

    lowtechcyclist

    Krugman:

    But there are three possible Plan Bs for the Biden administration if Congress can’t reach a deal to lift the debt ceiling, Krugman said:

    Invoke the 14th Amendment: the post-Civil War addition to the Constitution ensures equal protection under the law but also says the integrity of the nation’s public debts “shall not be questioned.”

    Mint a $3 trillion platinum coin: The Treasury Department has the authority to mint commemorative coins. A $3 trillion platinum coin could be deposited at the Federal Reserve to pay off national debts. The Fed would then sell some of its bond portfolio, which in effect means the US is borrowing money through an alternative method.
    Issue premium bonds: Such bonds would off an unusually large annual interest payment. The US Treasury could auction them for well above their face value. Krugman said this is a way to borrow money without technically adding to the national debt burden.

    “All of these plans have drawbacks, and considered in isolation they each sound a bit silly. But they should be graded on a curve – compared not with normal fiscal management, but with the catastrophic consequences if the US government simply stops paying its bills,” he said.

    I gather the idea behind the premium bonds is that, since they would sell for more than their face value, the debt would go up by the face value of the bonds but the money in the Treasury would increase by a greater amount than their face value, so that would count as a net reduction of the debt.

    The downside is that we’d have to pay off the higher interest when it came due.  So it strikes me as more of a way to buy time than anything else.

    How much time?  Just a year – once the first interest payment becomes due, it starts costing real money. and increasing the debt faster than would otherwise happen.

    I’m still for trying the platinum coin first.  Yes, it’s gimmicky, but that shouldn’t be a strike against it: it’s an artificial solution to an artificial problem, which is what the debt limit is.  And if it works (IOW, the Fed accepts the coin, and it survives any court challenges), it’s essentially solved the problem: the government can mint as many of them in the future as it will need.

    Worst case:  it fails, and we move on to trying the next thing, presumably the bonds.

  49. 49.

    zhena gogolia

    Why the fuck didn’t we win the goddamned House! I am so fucking sick of these assholes.

  50. 50.

    Steeplejack

    @JMG:

    At this point I agree with this. I’m sure there are some legal niceties that would have to be ironed out 😺, but the eternal “debt-ceiling crisis but only with a Dem president” has gone beyond farcical into the existential, what with the House GQP cosplaying as a baboon troop.

  53. 53.

    Geminid

    @Edmund dantes: That is one scenario: a reorganization of the House after 5 or more Republicans defect. I think the problem will be resolved in a different way, but it would be fun to watch those Freedon Caucus clowns react to seeing the rule they thought would control McCarthy used to blow up their Majority.

  54. 54.

    satby

    @Amir Khalid: I’m so sorry Amir. A sad Eid al fitr for you. Sometimes we can only accept that their little souls enjoyed the love of a home for a short time instead of never. And that is still a small blessing.

  57. 57.

    lowtechcyclist

    @JMG:

    The simplest and IMO best way for a clean debt limit increase is for Biden to simply ignore the GOP, cite the 14th amendment provision that US debts cannot be challenged, and continue with business as usual. Let the GOP howl. This would also cause Manchin and Sinema to howl, and the usual hand-wringers caucus among Democratic legislators to do so vigorously, but “I will protect our economy and government come what may strikes me as a strong political position.

    I think this is a last resort, because it takes us into unknown territory.  The GOP would challenge it, which would be a weak political position – going to court to force a debt default, AYFKM?! – but they’d do it.  And the Bogus Scotus might just rule their way.

    At which point either we’re in default, or Biden thumbs his nose at the Court and keeps on paying the bills anyway.  But that latter puts us into really dangerous territory: once a Dem President ignores a Supreme Court ruling, Rethug governors will be next, let alone a future Rethug president.

  67. 67.

    Wanderer

    @Amir Khalid:  Firstly I am glad you have recovered. It is so difficult to loose such a young pet. My condolences to you. Please, when you are able, take solace in the love that she received in your care. You made her life better just as she enriched your life.

  69. 69.

    John S.

    The MSM is having some very strong Eli Cash (Owen Wilson from The Royal Tenenbaums) vibes lately. They continue to make ridiculous statements that are laughable on their face, while posturing as pseudo-intellectuals.

    Well, everyone knows Custer died at Little Bighorn. What this book presupposes is… maybe he didn’t.

  71. 71.

    Geminid

    @Sean: Ed. The procedure for a petition to discharge is slow, but not so slow as to rule out its use, I think. It requires signatures from a majority members. Typically, the Majority is cohesive enough to head such a petition off, but this is an atypical situation.

    I saw a report last month that Josh Gottheimer and Brian Fitzpatrick, who lead the Bipartisan “Problem Solvers Caucus,” are working on debt legislation that could potentially be advanced by a petition to discharge.

    It sounded like the two had their own cuts in mind though, and that would not fly with Democratic House leadership. But it may be that their bill will be watered down to some sort of notional commitment to future deficit reduction, plus an adequate debt ceiling increase that enough House Republicans will sign off on.

    President Biden and Congressional leaders might decide that was an acceptable way to resolve the impending crisis, and I think nine Republican Senators would too..

  73. 73.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @Ohio Mom: Yep, it’s pretty much how the agribusiness “works.” If food subsidies go away, the entire food supply chain will suffer — except, of course, for C-suite suits and owners.

  74. 74.

    Soprano2

    @Chief Oshkosh: It hurts rural grocery stores, too. One of the dirty little hidden secrets is that there is a lot of rural poverty that isn’t talked about that much. Food stamps prop up many a rural grocery store.

  77. 77.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @Baud:

    The media could be better, but in this case, I think the problem is with the people. Too many take good government for granted and only respond when things go wrong.

    See also, abortion.

    IMO, how the media handled the decades-long lead-up to the abortion debacle is a very good example of how the media is a major problem, if not THE problem.

  82. 82.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @lowtechcyclist:

    When we used to have a glossary, I looked it up a couple of times, but have long since forgotten. So many damned acronyms! But I looked for the glossary in the right-hand column where all the other resources are listed, and don’t see it anywhere, so I assume it’s gone.

    It’s called a Lexicon, and it’s still there (and still includes the definition for and source of C.R.E.A.M.)

  83. 83.

    Soprano2

    @Chief Oshkosh: They’re doing it again, too, ignoring the fact that the next target of the anti-abortion radicals is safe, effective birth control. “Oh, they would never make that illegal” is their claim, just like for abortion.

  84. 84.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    Just stopping in quick before work to leave this lovely FTFNYT headline from today.

    After Fox Settlement, Assault on Media Protections Is Likely to Continue

    Fuck your fucking selves.

  86. 86.

    Geminid

    @Soprano2: I can think of a few other Democrats- and the Independent from Maine- who might not have gone along on canceling the debt ceiling law. New Hampshire’s Maggie Hassan might have told Schumer, “Chuck, I have a tough enough reelection next year already. I won’t vote for this.” Mark Kelly and Michael Bennet might not have wanted to take that vote either.

    That dynamic may change in future Congresses, possibly in part because of what happens in the next couple of months.

  87. 87.

    lowtechcyclist

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    It’s called a Lexicon, and it’s still there

    Where?

    ETA: Never mind, I finally see it: up above the big blue Balloon Juice banner in really faint print.

  88. 88.

    Kay

    Julie Alderman Boudreau
    @juliealdermanb
    .@RonDeSantisFL’s super PAC is set to send their first mail piece, but even to Republican voters, they’re not bringing up DeSantis’ abortion ban.

    The coverage of abortion is bad- low quality, sloppy work- so Democrats probably have to keep hitting it.

    An example: you’ve probably seen or heard or read “Students for Life” interviewed – the paid spokespeople for the anti abortion lobbying group are interviewed constantly. Were you told Students for Life opposes all birth control and wants to ban it in those interviews? Because that’s a fact.

  94. 94.

    Glory b

    @Baud: This is why our issues (like raising minimum wages and abortion rights) do well as ballot measures.  They can vote for them and stay distanced from the racial politics of it all.

    In the meantime, too many people on our side say it’s because of poor Democratic messaging. It’s actually because they don’t want to admit that their beloved grandmas, aunts & uncles, etc., actually think that way.

  95. 95.

    Jeffro

    It will be interesting when Uncle Joe lines up a dozen vulnerable, somewhat sane GOP reps who are willing to vote for a clean increase and publicly asks, “So…what do you say, Kevin?  You ready to do what you did 3 times for trump and vote for a clean increase, like these sensible Republicans?  Or are you going to cause a MAGA-driven default?”

    Rock and a hard place, indeed!

    And it couldn’t happen to a nicer guy.

  99. 99.

    James E Powell

    @WV Blondie:

    One of the things that Biden and the Dems should have done when they held the trifecta before the 2022 midterms is cancel the debt ceiling law

    Agreed. I never heard any explanation for why this was not done.

  104. 104.

    What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?

    @JMG: This seems like the way it will play out, with a request to SCOTUS to provide guidance on whether the debt limit or the 14th amendment is the ultimate law of the land when they are in conflict. My guess is Thomas and Alito (and maybe the new girl) will side with the debt limit just out of spite, but Roberts and Kavanaugh…they seem too beholden to the moneybags guys to destroy the economy. So hopefully, maybe, we get a 5-4 ruling that eliminates the debt ceiling as a thing forever.

  107. 107.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: The same people who didn’t take the people who were hollering about the anti-abortion advocates wanting to make abortion illegal seriously are now ignoring that their next target is safe, effective birth control. Total fail by the press.

  110. 110.

    Kay

    @Soprano2:

    From Students for Life own materials, available to anyone (pdf): 

    Other types of contraception that are widely used are capable of ending preborn human life and are therefore considered “abortifacient.” These methods include:
    • Oral contraceptives (birth control pills)
    • Intra-uterine devices (IUDs), both copper & hormonal
    • Hormonal patches
    • Hormonal shots
    • Hormonal implants
    • Hormonal vaginal rings
    • Plan B and ella
    THE ABORTION ALPHABET – THE ABC’S OF HOW LIVES CAN BE ENDED WITH DRUGS

    Paid for and authorized by Students for Life Action

  113. 113.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @rikyrah: I had a sketchy police stop in Newton a month ago where an officer pulled me over for running a stop sign a mile from my most recent stop sign (where I stopped twice). Then, when challenged, he asserted the stop was about a light on my car. I happened to already had replacements that I demonstrated and was sent along.

    Whatever you do, don’t ask me about my passenger.

  114. 114.

    sab

    @Kay: So banning pretty much any contraception that actually works. At least they will leave us with diaphrams and condoms.

  118. 118.

    lowtechcyclist

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation: I’ve already found it, thanks, but a few months down the road I’ll likely be similarly stymied.  After all, I’ve used the lexicon in the past, and couldn’t find it now.

    I did the ‘find in page’ trick, but with ‘glossary’ which obviously didn’t work (in general as in particular, as it relies on remembering the right synonym).

  121. 121.

    Kay

    @The Thin Black Duke:

    They have a comprehensive view and plan for new laws and that plan includes banning contraception. According to them. On their website.

    “Why contraception isn’t a side issue” – an article on their blog.

    I mean, wouldn’t you read about them before you interviewed them so you could ask – “your group lobbies to ban contraception, correct?” They’ll lie and then you bring out their lit and website.

  123. 123.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: That’s exactly how they’ll go about it, saying that these drugs cause abortions and therefore states that outlaw abortion can also make these drugs illegal. I hope Republicans sign on to this awful idea, because they will lose most women as voters if they do. IMHO, anyway, because that’s something that would affect those women personally.

  126. 126.

    p.a.

    Open thread so: I’m in zone 6 and my dwarf butterfly bushes are showing no signs of life; nothing on old growth, nothing new either.  Had them more than 5 years with no issues, but I honestly don’t remember when they “un-dormant”.  Still time, or has something happened?  I’d be surprised, was a very mild winter here.

  127. 127.

    The Thin Black Duke

    @Kay: I remember seeing old photographs of families before the Pill happened. Naturally, the women looked exhausted and used up because they were having half a dozen or more babies and their husbands liked it that way. Those are the “good old days” that these pigs want to bring back. Bitches won’t be so damned uppity if they’re pumping out Rugrats every damned year.

  129. 129.

    Manyakitty

    @Baud: Been thinking about the criticism of Reps. Davids, Spanberger, and the other moderates. They’re still reliable Democrats. I like Nancy Pelosi’s approach “just WIN, baby!” Seems to work for them. Let’s let them keep it up.

  131. 131.

    Soprano2

    @p.a.: We’re in zone 6 too. There are bushes in front of my office that appear to have died over the winter. They’re not butterfly bushes – I’m not sure what they’re called, but they get red berries on them sometime during the year and they aren’t holly bushes. I’ve noticed that these same bushes at other places appear to have died, too. I’ve also noticed some dead spots on my boxwood bushes, I have no idea why.

  135. 135.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Manyakitty: Yes, for every progressive whose desired agenda is being held back by the standard Democratic agenda, there is a centrist who is being pulling further than they really want to go by the same agenda.  The leadership need to be able to coordinate how to keep both wings onside.  Herding cats, doncha know.

  139. 139.

    eversor

    Kill social security and use it to pay off fossil fuel companies this is the only option and they will then back socially liberal policies.

    This is the only way out and to keep social liberalism.  That’s always been the end cost of this.  We need to just admit and nuke the middle and working class into the ground to keep our social issues.  Do it, do it quick, and don’t look back.  I have full faith this will be done, it’s why I vote democratic.

  143. 143.

    Suzanne

    @The Thin Black Duke:

    Naturally, the women looked exhausted and used up because they were having half a dozen or more babies and their husbands liked it that way. Those are the “good old days” that these pigs want to bring back. 

    Yes.
    Abortion bans and interference with contraception are attempts to get women out of public life and back into a subservient and procreative role.
    And please dispense with the fiction that they think, in the back of their minds, that it’s okay because rich white women will still be able to access abortion. While that fact may be true, it is not in service of the end goal. The social conservatives are freaked out by women in positions of power and influence and financial independence, they are freaked out by a collapse in “the white birthrate”, and they want to return all women — including rich white ones — to the ownership and control of men.

  145. 145.

    Sandia Blanca

    @Amir Khalid: I’m so sad to hear of your loss, and the health scare you’ve been through. It’s good to hear from you, as many have been concerned about your absence.

  147. 147.

    Kay

    @sab:

    It’s “the rythm method”, rebranded by marketing people to make it more appealing to young people- remember- this lavishly funded anti choice lobbying group is called “Students for Life”. That’s why they get so much coverage- media loves the idea that there is a “post Roe generation” and they have been promoting it 24/7.

  150. 150.

    Geminid

    @Manyakitty: Both Representatives Davids and Spanberger have done well holding onto the purple districts they flipped in 2018. Despite redistricters adding Republican voters to the KS 3rd district, Davids won handily last year.

    Spanberger’s had a tougher path, winning reelection in 2020 by less than 8,000 votes. Last year she held a redrawn district by 14,000 votes, less than 5%. Between demographic change and her own ability, I think Spanberger’s winning margin will be closer to 10% within a couple cycles.

    I’ve followed news on Sharice Davids since her 2018 primary campaign. One thing I’ve noticed is that while she does not get a lot of national attention state and local media sources cover Davids a lot.  She has an energetic presence at local events throughout her district, and is an enthusiastic retail campaigner year round.

  151. 151.

    CaseyL

    @Amir Khalid:

    Oh my god, I am so sorry to hear this.  Agent Scully was such a bright spark!  You brought each other great joy during her short stay here.

  152. 152.

    Llelldorin

    @zhena gogolia: Because in a country split between the sensible and the mad, the balance of power is held by people who don’t pay much attention. In 2022 they were hurting economically and Biden was President… and that’s literally all the thinking they did about it.

  154. 154.

    Kay

    @The Thin Black Duke:

    One of the questions they ask women when they’re evaluating osteoporosis is “how many children have you carried to term?” There’s a cost to womens bodies from pregnancy after pregnancy. That’s part of the reason the anti choice people drive me crazy- it’s all such gauzy, sentimental nonsense about pregnancy and birth. They’re dishonest in every aspect – they can’t even describe events honestly. It’s this weird gaslighting of women, where no one is allowed to just state plain truths about pregnancy and birth. I think it’s part of the reason we have such a high maternal and infant death rate in the US. These people live in a Hallmark card fantasy of “motherhood”.

  155. 155.

    Burnspbesq

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation:

    Fuck your fucking selves.

    Agreed. How on earth does showing that a defendant clearly violated the English-speaking world’s most media-friendly defamation law amount to an assault on media protections?

    The Times is acting in bad faith and against its own interests in coming to Fox’ defense. Fox did what it is alleged to have done. They  have to pay. The correct takeaway here is a variation on “if you can’t do the time, don’t do the crime.”

  158. 158.

    frosty

    @Amir Khalid: ​
     Oh no! I’m so sorry to hear about Agent Scully. My condolences to you.

    Also, I’m glad to hear you’re feeling better. What an awful time.

  166. 166.

    Jackie

    GQP is getting fed up with Margie’s outbursts:

    “Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-GA) blew up a hearing of the House Homeland Security Committee on Wednesday when she called Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas a “liar” and blamed him for fentanyl deaths around the country — an outburst that violates House rules about impugning the character of a witness. The tirade forced Chairman Mark Green, a Republican of Tennessee, to shut down her questioning and bar her from speaking for the rest of the hearing.

    According to CNN reporter Melanie Zanona, Republicans behind the scenes are furious with her, and are considering punishments — even including a threat of booting her off the committee for future disruptions.

    “GOP tensions flaring over MTG’s committee hearing outburst today,” tweeted Zanona. “Source close to Chairman Mark Green said he was furious w/ MTG’s behavior and planned to privately reprimand her, and also said he’d encourage McCarthy to remove her from the committee if she did that again. But MTG doubled down on her rhetoric, accusing her GOP colleagues of ‘doing the bidding’ of Dems. She told me she went to [House Speaker Kevin] McCarthy’s office to talk about it & said to him: ‘I don’t know how we’re ever going to accomplish anything when we can’t call people a liar when they’re lying.'”

    https://www.rawstory.com/marjorie-taylor-greene-2659883696/

  169. 169.

    Manyakitty

    @sab: should we discuss offline and come up with a suggestion or??? You can find me on Instagram by the same nym as here.

  170. 170.

    What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?

    @Kay: One thing I’ve never understood about the right to life movement is the carve out for the rhythm method. Like, it’s another way to have sex while trying not to become pregnant. They’re anti condom but somehow the rhythm method is OK? Why is that? Because it’s somewhat less effective? I mean, it’s still somewhat effective so it should be not-OK, but yet they’re OK with it, and only it.

    The whole the pill/patch/etc. causes abortions is BS. Those things prevent ovulation, which means there’s no egg to fertilize, which means you can’t get pregnant. I realize it’s a myth that some pro-lifers believe but trying to ban contraception based on a myth isn’t going to go well for them.

  171. 171.

    Denali5

    At my bridge group on Tuesday the talk was all about how no one wanted to work after the Co-vid payments. The only response I could come up with was “it’s complicated. I gave the waiter an extra generous tip.

  173. 173.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Denali5: Unemployment is at the lowest rate in years. The problem is more jobs need to be done than we have available workers, the solution is likely expanding and uncomplicating immigration.

  175. 175.

    Eolirin

    @Llelldorin: No way. Gerrymandering is why we lost the house last cycle. Our voters turned out where they needed to everywhere but NY and CA, where we underperformed but a lot of that was amped up anti public health stuff, and in NY, at least, was driven quite a bit by the orthodox jewish population turning out for the jewish GOP gov candidate and being really pissed off about pushback on their anti-vax positions and about lgbtq discrimination at their schools.

    CA and NY also don’t need to worry about state abortion bans so there was less pressure to turn out on our side.

  176. 176.

    Kay

    @What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?:

    I think trying to ban contraception isn’t going to go well for them. I don’t think the public (yet) understands how radical anti choicers are- how this is a whole ideology that exends to and seeks to control every part of womens lives.

    Go back and read the Right-leaning, conventional punditry (so most of them) after Roe was overturned. They didn’t anticipate any of this. They believed that it would be “left up to the states’ and the blue states they all live in would be unaffected. They did this breezy handwaving, where women could go..places and no one needed to be concerned. They don’t understand anti choicers. They don’t read them or listen to them. Anti choice is this cloistered group of religious fundamentalists who have operated without any transparency for 50 years. They blundered politically because they’re really outside the US mainstream and they have lived in such a bubble they didn’t even know it. They’re still denying it.

  178. 178.

    The Moar You Know

    @Amir Khalid: I am so, so sorry.  Not enough that you have to be taken seriously ill (what you describe is quite serious) but to lose your feline friend.  I have been there.  It’s not a good place to be.

  180. 180.

    Kay

    @What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?:

    Oddly enough, I think the state by state nature of the field post-Roe works for Democrats, politically, better than the national issue field did. With state by state we have “facts on the ground” – pick the D in Michigan (or PA or WI or AZ) or you’re getting a ban. I wanted Democratic politics to work like this for years- issues work for us at the state level and then GO UP to federal rather than the reverse. I think all lasting, resilient progressive changes happen like that. I was thrilled with the state wins in ’22. I think they’re way more important than the US House.

  181. 181.

    geg6

    @sab: ​ I am five out of six in 15 years. Plus my mom had one miscarriage in between me and my next oldest sister and one between me and my youngest sister. So eight pregnancies, six to term and two ending before term. In 15 years. I can’t even imagine.​

  182. 182.

    LiminalOwl

    @Amir Khalid: oh, how heartbreaking, and right after your own illness.  We are glad to see you posting, and we share in the grief.  Best wishes for healing in body and spirit.

  183. 183.

    Suzanne

    @Kay:

    I don’t think the public (yet) understands how radical anti choicers are- how this is a whole ideology that exends to and seeks to control every part of womens lives. 

    Agreed 100%.
    I don’t think a lot of people realize how much of a sense of betrayal a lot of men feel about women being educated and financially independent and in control of their fertility. There’s a reason Jordan Peterson talks about enforced monogamy (enforced only for women, of course). There’s a lot more men who want tradwives than the inverse.

  184. 184.

    Ghost of Joe Liebling’s Dog

    @Amir Khalid: I’m so sorry to hear this sad news (though relieved and happy to see your nym again).  Wishing there was more that good thoughts and words could do – however kind, they are never enough.

  185. 185.

    Suzanne

    @geg6: I remember shopping for maternity clothes some time back with SuzMom. She commented how, when she was pregnant, there was always a huge section, and now it’s relatively small. She said, “Well, I guess women don’t spend their whole adult lives pregnant anymore.” Thank God.

    Loretta Lynn said it years ago:

    You wined me and dined me
    When I was your girl
    Promised if I’d be your wife
    You’d show me the world
    But all I’ve seen of this old world
    Is a bed and a doctor bill
    I’m tearin’ down your brooder house
    ‘Cause now I’ve got the pill
    All these years I’ve stayed at home
    While you had all your fun
    And every year that’s gone by
    Another baby’s come
    There’s a gonna be some changes made
    Right here on nursery hill
    You’ve set this chicken your last time
    ‘Cause now I’ve got the pill
    This old maternity dress I’ve got
    Is goin’ in the garbage
    The clothes I’m wearin’ from now on
    Won’t take up so much yardage
    Miniskirts, hot pants and a few little fancy frills
    Yeah I’m makin’ up for all those years
    Since I’ve got the pill
    I’m tired of all your crowin’
    How you and your hens play
    While holdin’ a couple in my arms
    Another’s on the way
    This chicken’s done tore up her nest
    And I’m ready to make a deal
    And ya can’t afford to turn it down
    ‘Cause you know I’ve got the pill
    This incubator is overused
    Because you’ve kept it filled
    The feelin’ good comes easy now
    Since I’ve got the pill
    It’s gettin’ dark it’s roostin’ time
    Tonight’s too good to be real
    Oh, but daddy don’t you worry none’
    Cause mama’s got the pill
    Oh, daddy don’t you worry none’
    Cause mama’s got the pill

  191. 191.

    LadySuzy

    @JMG: President Biden is in a bind. It he uses the 14th, he protects the economy in the short term, but it gives republicans an occasion to demagogue their way into power in 2024, which would be devastating to the country for the long term.

    I really, really hope that President Biden and his communication team have a good strategy in mind. Especially because the national media are so superficial in their covering of politics, and they demonstrate an inability or, more accurately, a refusal to present with clarity the differences between the proposals of both sides (wouldn’t take too much work to show comparative charts !!!)

  195. 195.

    Jeffro

    @Kay: Go back and read the Right-leaning, conventional punditry (so most of them) after Roe was overturned. They didn’t anticipate any of this. They believed that it would be “left up to the states’ and the blue states they all live in would be unaffected. They did this breezy handwaving, where women could go..places and no one needed to be concerned. They don’t understand anti choicers. They don’t read them or listen to them. Anti choice is this cloistered group of religious fundamentalists who have operated without any transparency for 50 years. They blundered politically because they’re really outside the US mainstream and they have lived in such a bubble they didn’t even know it. They’re still denying it.

    So wait…you’re saying it’s not just a “messaging” issue, then?

  197. 197.

    Soprano2

    @Denali5: It’s stunning to me that we still hear this with unemployment hovering around 3%! It’s a myth that people think makes sense, which is why it persists.

  198. 198.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Soprano2: When encountered with a right wing talking point, your interlocutor should be reminded of the definition of specious.

  201. 201.

    Geminid

    @Jackie: There was a classic exchange between Greene and Rep. Dan Goldman. The Manhattan Democrat pointed out that if Greene’s words had been “taken down,” the rule was that she could no longer speak in that proceeding. When the Chairman acknowledged this,

    Greene: “Point of Personal Inquiry…”

    Goldman: “There’s no such thing.”

  202. 202.

    Suzanne

    @rikyrah: I try to keep tabs on social conservatives, and I don’t know if our side really understands how terrified they are around this issue. There is a large cohort of men who are terrified that they will never marry or have children. They are terrified of demographic change and want to force or coerce more white women into early marriage and parenthood. This is a defining issue for them right now. They’re not thinking about, “Well, if something goes wrong, my wife or sister can still get an abortion”. They’re thinking of banning abortion as a tactic to get women to have their children. They hate, hate, hate women getting college education and jobs that distract them from babymaking and homemaking.

    Some of them literally lament the stunning decline in teen pregnancy as a bad thing.

  204. 204.

    thalarctosMaritimus

    @Amir Khalid: Dear Amir–I’m so sorry. What a rough time you’ve been through. We noticed your absence, and we missed you.

    I’m glad you’re better. I’m really sorry about Agent Scully. She sounds like a real love, and I wish you’d had many years together.

    I wish you solace and healing. Please let us know if there’s anything we can do to help you.

  206. 206.

    Soprano2

    @Suzanne: Some of them literally lament the stunning decline in teen pregnancy as a bad thing.

    I heard an interesting interview on Fresh Air with Arline Geronimus, who wrote a book called Weathering: The Extraordinary Stress of Ordinary Life in an Unjust Society.  One of the things she mentioned in the interview was how reducing teen pregnancy actually caused maternal mortality to go up, especially among black women. She thinks it’s because of what she calls “weathering”, which is basically premature aging. She said she wasn’t advocating for teen pregnancy, but the numbers are the numbers and that’s what happened. She said we need better programs to prevent this degradation of health among poor and minority people. It was an interesting interview, you can find it her

    ETA I remember reading in another book, about which young women have abortions and which don’t and why, that for poor young women it kind of makes sense to have babies at an early age because they can live at home and get their parents to help them, because they feel that their marriage prospects are so poor. If they wait until they’re in their mid- or late 20’s and have a baby, they don’t get much or even any help from mom and dad.

  207. 207.

    Jackie

    @Geminid: All the exchanges ‘twere a thing of beauty!😂

    I want to know what Sqeaker McCarthy said to her when she whined about how mean and unfairly she was treated!

  211. 211.

    Ruckus

    @Hildebrand:

    The problem is not that it’s impossible, it’s that it’s impossible with the nursery school toddlers in the rethuglican party that only know ransom demands as a negotiating tactic. And as they get wackier and wackier – which they are – this will only get worse. (They are so wacky now that they argued for how long to elect this guy as their congressional “leader”?) They are down to Kevin as “leader,” a guy that seemingly couldn’t find his way to the men’s room, with a map AND a guide? And they think that they can actually be a legislative body? Of course they don’t actually want to legislate, they want their “betters” to be able to pay them to help steal everything, sell crappy pillows for several times what they are worth type of stealing. This political party in my life time seemingly wanted to support the concept of “controlled” liberty. Liberty but not too much and not too fast or too far. Now they just want access to your bank account and screw anything that gets in their way. They long ago lost their way as a rational political party, their goal is money and power and in that order. It wouldn’t be as bad if they didn’t mind actually reasonably earning that money but what they want is for everyone else to just give it to them so it’s easier to take the power. They have become the party they said they didn’t want to be.

  217. 217.

    Elizabelle

    @Amir Khalid:  Glad to see you back, and so sorry about Sully and your own health issues.  How sad.

    I hope another lucky kitty is in your future, when you are ready.  Sully had a good life with you, and sometimes that is all you can hope for.

  218. 218.

    Suzanne

    @Soprano2:

    One of the things she mentioned in the interview was how reducing teen pregnancy actually caused maternal mortality to go up, especially among black women. She thinks it’s because of what she calls “weathering”, which is basically premature aging. She said she wasn’t advocating for teen pregnancy, but the numbers are the numbers and that’s what happened. She said we need better programs to prevent this degradation of health among poor and minority people. 

    This is a thing that crosses all racial groups, actually. As people wait longer to have kids, the average age of women/birthing people is increasing, which means a larger percentage of births are considered higher risk due to advanced maternal age. As fertility treatments have gotten more common, there’s been an increase in high-risk pregnancies from that, as well as from pregnancies with multiples.

  220. 220.

    Glidwrith

    @What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?: Because you are still “open to life”, and no, it isn’t effective at all if you really are trying to avoid pregnancy. When my husband-to-be and I had to attend the Catholic marriage counseling as a requirement to be married, the whole room of >50 people laughed in the counselors face when they tried to claim how effective it was.

  222. 222.

    Jinchi

    @James E
    I never heard any explanation for why this was not done.

    Google “Joe Manchineel debt ceiling” and I think all your questions will be answered. He’s been taking the Republican side on this for years.

  224. 224.

    Another Scott

    @Amir Khalid: I’m so very sorry, Amir.  You’ve been through a lot.

    Take care of yourself, and thanks for sharing your little girl with us.

    Best wishes,
    Scott.

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