Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

I would try pessimism, but it probably wouldn’t work.

You cannot love your country only when you win.

Fear and negativity are contagious, but so is courage!

Disagreements are healthy; personal attacks are not.

We cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation.

This really is a full service blog.

Weird. Rome has an American Pope and America has a Russian President.

These days, even the boring Republicans are nuts.

To the privileged, equality seems like oppression.

Dumb motherfuckers cannot understand a consequence that most 4 year olds have fully sorted out.

Their freedom requires your slavery.

Putting aside our relentless self-interest because the moral imperative is crystal clear.

That meeting sounds like a shotgun wedding between a shitshow and a clusterfuck.

It’s easy to sit in safety and prescribe what other people should be doing.

Rupert, come get your orange boy, you petrified old dinosaur turd.

You come for women, you’re gonna get your ass kicked.

If a good thing happens for a bad reason, it’s still a good thing.

Black Jesus loves a paper trail.

Republican also-rans: four mules fighting over a turnip.

Fight them, without becoming them!

I’m more christian than these people and i’m an atheist.

Every reporter and pundit should have to declare if they ever vacationed with a billionaire.

I have other things to bitch about but those will have to wait.

Republicans firmly believe having an abortion is a very personal, very private decision between a woman and J.D. Vance.

You are here: Home / Economics / C.R.E.A.M. / Sunday Morning Open Thread: ‘Negotiating’ the Debt Ceiling

Sunday Morning Open Thread: ‘Negotiating’ the Debt Ceiling

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This post is in: ,

What was billed as GOP’s serious debt limit plan turned out to be a dud. McCarthy must begrudgingly accept that this debt-limit fight is one his party should not continue to wage, b/c there’s no scenario in which they will get what they want.

B/c they don’t *know* what they want.

There’s no way for R’s to win. House GOP is only leaving ways for everyone to lose — if US govt threatens default and potentially sets off global financial panic at a time when world economy is already fragile.

Problem now is McCarthy needs a face-saving way to back down from his party’s foolish positions.

I, myself, would go with ‘faking a sudden cardiac event’, but that’s why I’m not a professional grifter GOP politician like Squeaker Kevvy Mac.

Dems, quite reasonably, don’t wish to compromise on stance that debt limit must be raised, w/o preconditions; the full faith and credit of the U.S. government not up for negotiation.

But if Democrats claim complete and total victory, and humiliate opponents, there’s a chance some Republicans in House conference will act out and blow up the world economy anyway (i.e. withhold votes on debt limit).

Which is why I say everyone needs to find an acceptable off-ramp.

One possibility: Pass a clean debt-ceiling bill and pledge to work on some other priority that A) sounds tangentially related to deficit issues, and B) both parties could claim as a victory.

E.g. something like permitting reform. You can argue it’s related to deficits because it would help tax dollars (on infrastructure, chips, clean energy) stretch further. And member of both parties interested in it anyway.

It’s a stickup! Don’t move! We are serious! There is a reason we are holding up this bank, and it’s because — well, the point is, we can agree, things are out of control with the money! So — please take the action that we demand, an action we have definitely thought about, or else! Kablammo!

We have some demands, now! Absolutely! They are the reason we got into this, and we are super ready with them! They are coming … now! Okay … now! Hang on, sorry.

Obviously, the reason we are here on the brink is because we have a specific thing that we want to achieve! We did not go into this and say, “What we are certain about is that we want to hold up a bank, and we will figure out the rest of the plan after we get there!” We went into this saying, “We are principled individuals, with clear, realistic goals and we will stop at nothing to attain those goals!” We are not quickly Googling what goals are; we have them ready to go. Right now! Yes, they are coming! Here they are!…

I know what you’re saying: “If your demands are so important that you would literally blow this whole place if they aren’t met, shouldn’t you at least know what the demands are? How can it be that you are still in the process of nailing them down?” And “Wasn’t a better time to do this when we were deciding how much money to spend on things? Isn’t this whole thing backward?” To which I say: “No!”

The point is, this is an important exercise: to think about priorities! And this is for sure the best way to do this exercise — in this setting, when everyone is relaxed, and not worried about the situation spiraling out of control, resulting in the loss of not only their savings but also the whole building, because of the dynamite we have helpfully brought along, to make the negotiations go smoothly!

We have to do it this way, because otherwise people won’t realize how severe the situation is!…

Reader Interactions

119Comments

  1. 1.

    NotMax

    Potpourri.

    1) And then there was one.

    Ken Potts, one of the last two remaining survivors of the USS Arizona battleship, which sank during the 1941 Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, has died. He was 102.
    [snip]
    …the only remaining survivor from the Arizona is now Lou Conter, who is 101 and living in California. Source

    2) Semper High.

    A former Marine who for years helped smuggle drugs from Mexico into the United States and even tried to get a song written to glorify his exploits was sentenced Friday to 12 years in federal prison.

    Roberto Salazar II, 26, of San Diego was sentenced for importing fentanyl and for conspiracy to distribute heroin, methamphetamine, cocaine and fentanyl, according to a statement from the U.S. attorney’s office.
    [snip]
    He was stationed at Marine Corps Air Station Miramar in San Diego. Prosecutors said that before joining the corps and while on active duty, he and couriers he recruited made dozens of smuggling trips across the border. Source

    3) Baby, it’s hot outside.

    Extreme heat has sent temperatures soaring in Thailand as authorities warned people to stay indoors.

    The Meteorological Department’s forecast on Saturday said the highest temperature in the next 24 hours could reach 43 degrees Celsius (107 degrees Fahrenheit) in country’s north and could hit 40 C (104 F) in the capital, Bangkok. The highest temperature on Saturday was in the northern province of Phetchabun at 42.5 C (109 F).
    [snip]
    Saturday’s highest heat index — which measures what the temperature feels like due to humidity — was forecast to be 53.8 C (129 F) in the eastern province of Chonburi. On Sunday, the southern resort island of Phuket could feel hotter than 54 C. Source

  2. 2.

    Baud

    One possibility: Pass a clean debt-ceiling bill and pledge to work on some other priority that A) sounds tangentially related to deficit issues, and B) both parties could claim as a victory.

    I’d suggest something stupid and worthless like the Simpson-Bowles Commission, but I don’t know if our side is mature enough to accept it.

  3. 3.

    Shalimar

    I assume McCarthy’s exit ramp will be finding someone to shoot Scalise again.  Why should he have to fake the cardiac event?

  5. 5.

    OzarkHillbilly

    My wife just came up the stairs to get Percy’s tracker off his collar. He is now huddled under my feet for protection because he just knows she is going to do some terrible thing to him. You know, trim his nails or maybe cut his hair.

  6. 6.

    narya

    @Baud: Hah! It’s already been suggested, apparently, at least according to the Obama PodBros. They also saw the need for an offramp, particularly in the form of a committee like this. That would be fine with me. And then we work to retake the house.

  7. 7.

    Baud

    @narya:

    Glad I kept my “He sold is out!” signs.

    While I’m the furthest thing from a Bernie Sanders fan, he’d be a good choice as one of the co-chairs for such a commission.

  8. 8.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @NotMax:

    Several dozen Arizona survivors have had their ashes interred on the sunken battleship so they could join their shipmates, but Potts didn’t want that, according to Stratton.

    “He said he got off once, he’s not going to go back on board again,” he said.

    Stratton said many Arizona survivors shared a similar dry sense of humor. That included his own father, who was severely burned in the attack and also did not want to return to the ship as ashes in an urn.

    “‘I’ve been cremated once. I’m not going to be cremated twice,’” Donald Stratton joked, according to the younger Stratton, before his death in 2020 at age 97.

  9. 9.

    OzarkHillbilly

    An attempt to repeal a Michigan law that punishes unmarried couples who live together is being thwarted by Republicans in the state legislature. The law, which dates to 1931, targets “any man or woman, not being married to each other, who lewdly and lasciviously associates and cohabits together”. It is rarely enforced but violations carry a penalty of up to a year in prison and a $1,000 fine. Senate Bill 56, which seeks to repeal the law, attracted support from all state senate Democrats and half of Republicans. But nine Republicans voted against.

    Edward McBroom, a Republican, spoke in opposition to the bill on the senate floor – for, he said, the sake of the “common good”. He said: “This law was not passed to be mean … it was passed for the betterment of society, particularly for children.”

    McBroom argued that unmarried cohabitation does not promote marriage, and that such arrangements lead to broken homes that hurt children.

    Another Republican state senator against repealing the antiquated law said his reasons for doing so were tax-related. Thomas Albert said: “I very easily would be a yes on this bill if the tax structure continued to encourage marriage.”

    If McBroom was really interested in the betterment of society, he would resign from his seat, dig a hole in the ground, and disappear for the next 20 years or so. Dawg save us all from Republican morality(heavy on the sarcasm).

    eta: I think the Guardian is a little cornfused. The piece ends with “The bill now moves to the statehouse.” So, NOT thwarted.

  10. 10.

    Baud

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Senate Bill 56, which seeks to repeal the law, attracted support from all state senate Democrats and half of Republicans. But nine Republicans voted against

     
    So how is it being thwarted?

  13. 13.

    Geminid

    One week before Presidant Biden met wit Squeaker McCarthy in early February, he and Democratic Congressional leaders held a meeting at the White House to make a plan. I expect it was a comprehensive yet flexible one.

    So what was the plan? They are not saying of course, but I think we are seeing it in action. There won’t be any special coin minting or other quick fixes. Democrsts intend to push this debt increase through the old fashioned way, and to hold Republicans’ feet to the fire until they cannot stand the heat anymore.

    This will be very stressful for a lot of people, and we all had better strap in for a bumpy ride.

  14. 14.

    mrmoshpotato

    This makes me think about my 5-year-old nephew “negotiating”* which is just him stalling having to take a nap or go to sleep for the night.

    *No, I have no idea where he learned the word.

  15. 15.

    Jeffro

    Why would anyone (other than Kevin McCarthy) worry about helping Kevin McCarthy save face here?

    He’s going to have a couple dozen relatively sane GOP House members come to him and say, “We’re voting for a clean increase” and he’s going to have to do it.  At which point the incredibly not sane GOP House members will decide Kevin has to go.

    I’m not seeing a problem here.

  19. 19.

    Mark

    The debt and deficit matter once again because there is a Democrat in the White House.

    Who cooooda node?

  20. 20.

    OzarkHillbilly

    A federal judge donated tens of thousands of dollars to New Orleans’ Roman Catholic archdiocese and consistently ruled in favor of the church amid a contentious bankruptcy involving nearly 500 clergy sex abuse victims, an Associated Press investigation has found, but the judge won’t step down from the case.

    Confronted with AP’s findings, which had not been previously reported, US district judge Greg Guidry abruptly convened attorneys on a call last week to tell them his charitable giving “has been brought to my attention” and he would consider recusal from the high-profile bankruptcy he oversees in an appellate role.

    “Naturally,” Guidry told them, “I will take no further action in this case until this question has been resolved.”

    Guidry indicated he would seek guidance from the federal judiciary’s committee on codes of conduct. And in a separate hearing called on Friday, he told attorneys in the case that the committee had approved his continuing to handle appeals related to the bankruptcy.

    I smell a corrupt Catholic rat.

    The reporting by Jim Mustian of the AP on Guidry is only one example of how many links are shared by the New Orleans area’s legal establishment and the local archdiocese, which serves a region with a half-million Catholics and is the oldest to declare bankruptcy amid the clergy sex abuse crisis.

    Many many many corrupt Catholic rats.

  21. 21.

    Another Scott

    A gentle reminder to those in the press pushing this “why won’t Biden negotiate moar better??” for clicks…

    .@paulwaldman1 & @ThePlumLineGS on debt extortion: Blame "the supposedly reasonable Republicans — the moderates, the centrists, the pragmatists … who could end this madness now if they chose but instead are enabling the crisis." Gift link: t.co/vf6q2fSuZU

    — Jill Lawrence (@JillDLawrence) April 21, 2023

    Yup.

    The GQP has the majority in the House. It’s their responsibility to pass a debt ceiling increase through that body. Their leadership has the means and the ability to make that happen – it’s their job.

    It’s not the Democratic minority’s responsibility, or Biden’s responsibility, to somehow “save” the GQP from itself.

    As driftglass says, Burn the Lifeboats Off-ramps.

    Eyes on the prizes.

    (via NormOrnstein)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  23. 23.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis announced Saturday he will request a Major Disaster Declaration for Broward County due to the catastrophic impacts of unprecedented flooding in Fort Lauderdale.

    The announcement comes 10 days after heavy rainfall caused historic flooding that damaged countless homes and left residents reeling in the devastation.

  25. 25.

    Geminid

    @OzarkHillbilly: One “off-ramp” might be a petition to discharge a debt bill that 5 or more Republicans sign along with Democrats. Democratic leaders might go for one that had minor, token budget cuts plus some notional commitment to fiscal restraint. The White House might find it an acceptable solution also, with buy-in from 9 Republican Senators.

    “Problem Solvers” Josh Gottheimer and Brian Fitzpatrick have been discussing compromise legislation that might be advanced this way, but in its present form it sounds unacceptable to Democratic leadership. A watered down version could be a solution late in the process. Then it would be the “face” of these Repulican defectors that would be saved, not McCarthy’s.

    Typically, a majority caucus is too disciplined and cohesive for a discharge petition to succeed. These is not typical debt ceiling fight though.

  26. 26.

    Another Scott

    Doktor Zoom at Wonkette:

    So what happens next? As the [FTF]New York Times notes, not only is the GOP proposal dead on arrival in the Democratic-controlled Senate, it’s “not at all guaranteed” that “Mr. McCarthy can get his own Republican caucus behind the bill.” McCarthy will demand that Biden negotiate, because after all here’s a very reasonable offer to undo one of Biden’s greatest achievements, and Biden will smile, shake his head, and say “Are you kidding me, man?”

    [eta:] Moscow Mitch has said (yet again) that there isn’t going to be a default, so the hostage the GQPers in the House are trying to keep is a paper doll.

    No real “negotiating” until about a week before the deadline (unless the bond or stock markets threaten to crash sooner) . It’s going to be a long Spring and Summer – save your energy.

    Eyes on the prizes.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  27. 27.

    Baud

    @Geminid:

    Progressives in the house have been trying to put some restraint on defense spending for several years.  Although I think Ukraine spending complicates matters.

  28. 28.

    Michael Bersin

    The somewhat shorter version:

    A Pride Festival has been presented in Warrensburg, Missouri in the past two years. Vendors, information booths (like the county Democratic Club, Free Mom Hugs, etc.), and all ages drag shows (ornate costumes, theatrical makeup, and pop and show tunes) are festival activities during the day.

    Last year a right wingnut busybody group picketed and prayed across the street. This year’s Pride Festival is scheduled for June 3rd at a local event venue.

    The right wingnut busybodies have been organizing to present a petition to the Warrensburg City Council at its regular meeting this Monday evening demanding that the Pride Festival be limited or cancelled. A loosely organized opposing group, supportive of the LGBTQIA+ community, is mobilizing individuals to also attend the meeting.

    I’ve been covering this at Show Me Progress and attended and covered the previous Pride Festivals. By the way, the drag shows are impressive – those costumes have to be expensive. The music is fun. People in the audience join in singing (family friendly). My spouse has marveled at the quality of the makeup on the drag performers, contemplating asking performers for makeup tips.

    The coverage of this at Show Me Progress has generated some interest, with traffic spikes. When that happens we also get an uptick in self-righteous trolling comments. Since our comments are moderated (by our choice) we don’t allow those comments to publish with the original post.  But we do sometimes select a trolling comment for mockery in a subsequent post.

    Unified Field Theory of Right Wingnut Pearl Clutching, Self-Righteousness, and Victimhood

     

     

     

  29. 29.

    narya

    I would like the dems to continuing noting (a) the multiple times the debt ceiling was raised when TFG was in office, with no drama, despite (b) the enormous tax cuts to the rich that increased the debt. That is a simple, winning message, and it seems to be effective so far. The second part of that strategy is noting exactly what is in the R’s budget–the specific cuts to major programs. Actually, that’s the third part–the second part is continuing to emphasize that the debt ceiling and the budget are separate things.

  30. 30.

    NotMax

    May I take a few moments to categorically state how much I DESPISE automated phone trees? Needed to contact a credit card company regarding something which may or may not have been wonky, based on a message purportedly from them found upon waking on the answering machine, timestamped 6:32 a.m.

    Twice got partially into the jungle, only to be disconnected. At one point somehow the automation spit out “Okay. We’ll close that account and send you a new card.” Not anywhere in the same galaxy with what I was seeking. Followed shortly thereafter with (verbatim): “Okay. We’re unclosing that account. Continue using the card you have now.”

    Finally did get far enough in to receive a “Please hold. I’m connecting you with a customer service agent.” That alone took 12 minutes, of course involving repetition of all the info and steps from the earlier cut off attempts.

    Silence. More silence. Then one ring. Second ring.

    (recording, at a volume so low had to strain to make it out) “Our customer service system is down for maintenance. Please try again later.” (click)

    Upshot: waited five hours, went through the whole 12 minute rigamarole yet again and did get to a real human. Took all of 2½ minutes to receive the answers I needed to set my mind at ease, including the extra time taken up by my new query (added to the mix because of the confusing messages above) about confirmation that the existing card remains active.

  31. 31.

    Jeffro

    @narya: fourth part: noting (loudly, please Dems) that for folks who are sooo interested in our nation’s finances, there sure don’t seem to be any tax increases on the wealthy in the GOP’s plan.

    Like, that is NEVER a part of the discussion, anywhere in America, at any time.

  33. 33.

    John S.

    @Baud:

    It should be easy for them to catch on given the brazenness of the GQP.

    Anyone looking at the facts would see that every time a Republican is president, the GQP spend like drunks and run up the debt without holding the debt limit hostage.

    And every time a Democrat is president and starts cleaning up their messes, the GQP magically discover fiscal conservatism all over again and hold the debt limit hostage.

    The GQP has never done that to a Republican president.

  35. 35.

    Geminid

    @Baud: Cutting the Defense budget has long been a goal of some of the more liberal Democrats. That’s one reason the National Defense Authorization Act passes with bipartisan majorities and minorities. But this is not the right time for Democrats to put defense or any other kind of spending on the table, and I think the “progressives” understand that.

    Although I can count on that boneheaded Ro Khanna to show up on Fox advocating for defense cuts as part of a debt compromise, because he has already.

  37. 37.

    Kay

    @NotMax:

    Skilled trades get laid off a lot – jobs completed – and they all have these theories for how to get thru to unemployment. One is “don’t apply online”- they think the online applications go to the back of the pack so you have to call. Another is “press 2 for Spanish” – they think the line to speak to a rep is shorter on the Spanish line and “they all speak English, so you’re good there” :)

  38. 38.

    bbleh

    @Geminid: it’s the “bumpy ride” that worries me.  It’s taken literally nothing at all — just frantic worries, often about contradictory things — to spook the markets recently.  If things really start getting tense, I can see at least a moderate stampede, which would create actual problems for everybody — which of course the media would then follow the Republican lead of blaming on Biden.

    Not saying I see any other course for the WH, nor would I have a problem with a fig-leaf or two to get a couple of “moderate” House Republicans on board with the Dems — that’s part of “old-fashioned” politics too.

    I am really not in the mood for more Republican economic sabotage.  I hope at least some of the sugar-daddies are having some serious words with their bought-and-paid-for legislators.

  40. 40.

    John S.

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    It was nice that they called out the fact that it has been 10 days since the disaster and DeSantis hasn’t done shit. But then they resort to some weasel wording a couple paragraphs later:

    DeSantis’ request comes after Florida Democrats criticized his response time and claimed he went missing in action while people in Broward County suffered.

    If 10 days after historic flooding the Governor still hasn’t done shit because he was too busy running around the country servicing his presidential ambitions, then it isn’t a “claim” made by Democrats that he was MIA. It’s a fact already established.

  41. 41.

    Another Scott

    @NotMax: Sometimes yelling “REPRESENTATIVE” continuously into the phone works (if it has a voice recognition feature), or punching “0” a lot.

    There used to be a list of magic button presses to reach a real human for big companies, but the only one I quickly found today was for companies in the UK.  :-/

    LifeHacker has some more tips, but I don’t know how up-to-date they are.

    The “stay silent and don’t do anything” tip is one I hadn’t seen before.

    [/helpful-engineer-hat]

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  43. 43.

    Another Scott

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: [ snort! ]

    I “love” trying to make a call to an automated line with voice recognition from an airport and having the loud intercom message come on with the reminder about not accepting luggage from strangers, etc., etc., and having the confused software transfer me to Timbuktu or somewhere.  Such fun!!  :-/

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  44. 44.

    opiejeanne

    @NotMax: Jesus! I was watching the temperatures in Thailand, but haven’t paid attention recently.

    My niece and her family were moved to Thailand by the UN in January. I hope they can keep the babies cool.

  45. 45.

    Betty

    The message I am getting is that we can’t humiliate the GOP and we can’t humiliate Putin or else they will blow up the world. Okay.

  46. 46.

    Geminid

    @bbleh: Many Republican Congressman rely on a network of businessmen and professionals in their districts for political support. They are often social peers as well. While billionaire donors might weather the uncertainty around an imminent default without much difficulty, smaller businessman will be stressed. Building contractors and real estate agents will be freaking out. Auto dealers will be calling up their Representatives and screaming: “Interest rates are through the roof, my showroom is like a ghost town, and you have to DO SOMETHING!!”

  47. 47.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Kay: I always filed for unemployment on line. Here is Misery it’s painless, no delays and never a problem. I never go to the unemployment office if I can help it.

  50. 50.

    sdhays

    @Baud: Throwing them a pledge to work on permitting or setting up a commission for something like that which just makes the eyes of anyone not directly involved glaze over is fine. I don’t really like the conceding that any of this is over “spending”; it’s just Republicans seeing some leverage and wanting to use it to get…something.

    If only we could give them an “off ramp” by letting them watch a movie on a school night.

  55. 55.

    SFAW

    @Baud:

    So how is it being thwarted?

    Because Demon-crap votes only count for three-fifths of Repub votes? As you kids say: just spitballin’ here.

  56. 56.

    JWR

    @NotMax:

    Roberto Salazar II, 26, of San Diego was sentenced for importing fentanyl and for conspiracy to distribute heroin, methamphetamine, cocaine and fentanyl, according to a statement from the U.S. attorney’s office.

    I saw a report on TV news about the situation at the southern border. The reporter rattled of some numbers about how many migrants were there, how long they’d been waiting and etc, when suddenly, out of the blue, they shifted to note that 800 pounds of Fentanyl had been seized last year, leaving the impression the drugs were found in the possession of the migrants, and not during regular border inspections at legal crossings.

    Very sloppy reporting, even if the 800lbs of Fentanyl were found on the migrants, which was the general impression I got from the story. BTW, Texas.gov says there were 692lbs of Fentanyl seized in 2022, DEA says 230 pounds nationwide, so who knows?

  58. 58.

    sdhays

    @OzarkHillbilly: the committee had approved his continuing to handle appeals related to the bankruptcy

    I believe this would be the same committee (although I guess for another jurisdiction) which supposedly greenlit Kacsmaryk’s redaction of his multi-million dollar investment. I can’t say I’m feeling the warm fuzzy around these people’s commitment to transparency and ethics.

  59. 59.

    UncleEbeneezer

    THREAD :: CONNECT THE DOTS :: VOTING MACHINES :: this one is going to get wild, so grab a cup of coffee and your murder board, because the conspiracy is massive – though it’s just ONE part of the multiple criminal investigations into the trump coup. Here we go! 1/

    In January, 2021, two men named Scott Hall and Paul Maggio were escorted into the Coffee County Georgia elections office by one of the Georgia fraudulent electors (Cathy Latham) where they stole voting data from a voting machine at the direction of Sidney Powell. 2/…

  60. 60.

    SFAW

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: ​

    Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis announced Saturday he will request a Major Disaster Declaration for Broward County due to the catastrophic impacts of unprecedented flooding in Fort Lauderdale.

    Pursuant to that Declaration, Emperor DeathSantis has ordered his Florida Geheime Staatspolizei to seize control of Disneywokeworld, and to arrest the Disney board members “for the protection non-woke Florida citizens,” and relocate them to Anti-Woke Kamps (the ones with the “Anti-Woke Macht Frei” signs over the entrance), ASAP.

    Don’t think he hasn’t dreamed of doing that.

  62. 62.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Kay: I was never so happy as the day I first filed on line. I can’t imagine going back to the bad old days when one HAD to file your initial claim in person at the UE office. Sitting in a crowded room for hours waiting for your name to be called. Ridiculous.

  63. 63.

    TriassicSands

    @NotMax: I think that the situation may be worst of all when contacting health care entities.

    Every initial call is met with “If this is a life-threatening emergency, hang up and dial 911.”

    Then, when one chooses an option, the odds are that contact will also begin with “If this is a life-threatening emergency….” As though, something happened and now a life-threatening emergency has suddenly developed. Maybe, they sense I’m in danger of dying of old age while working through the phone-tree.

    Rather than offering quick options, it is common for contacts to list the hours of operation, COVID-19 information, and other options that drag out the length of the wait. The trees need to be streamlined. Of course, now each new contact may also have to repeat that “Due to staff shortages, wait times may be longer than usual.” Oh really, when were shorter wait times ‘usual?” Two, three years ago.

    And then, there are, as you point out, the disconnections. I’ve waited as long as an hour or even much longer only to be disconnected. Some entities have call-back services, but I’ve opted for that a number of times, hung up, losing my place in the queue, only to never receive a call-back. So, I have to call again and begin a new interminable wait.

    When I call my pharmacy, instead of offering to let me speak with someone directly, I have to hear the hours, the lunch break time, and other extraneous information before I begin the inevitable process.

    Pharmacy: “How can I help you?”

    Me: “Help me with something else.”

    Pharmacy: “OK, but first I need a little more information in order to connect you with the right person.” And a list of options is repeated.

    Me: “Help me with something else.”

    Pharmacy: But first…”If you have a question for the pharmacy [you know, the original number I called] “Press One.”

    Me: I press one.

    Pharmacy: Gives me four options, the last of which is to say “Help me with something else.”

    Me: I say, for the third time, “Help me with something else.”

    Pharmacy: OK, blah, blah, blah, hours of operation, lunch break time, information about COVID-19 and then, finally, I get connected with someone else, but only after they have dealt with other customers who called before I did.

    At least, when I call the pharmacy getting disconnected is less common, though not absent, than when I call any government agency.

  67. 67.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @sdhays: ​ I can’t say I’m feeling the warm fuzzy around these people’s commitment to transparency and ethics.

    What are you talking about? Their ethics are as transparent as a pane of glass. What else could they be when they don’t exist? ;-)

  68. 68.

    kalakal

    @SFAW: He dreams of his shrimper booted legions goose stepping through Orlando.

    He needs to work on the presentation a bit, The White Boots doesn’t sound very badass

  70. 70.

    Sure Lurkalot

    @bbleh:

     I hope at least some of the sugar-daddies are having some serious words with their bought-and-paid-for legislators.

    The uber wealthy people I worked for loved recessions. Nothing like taking advantage of wiped out losers at bargain basement prices.

  71. 71.

    kalakal

    @TriassicSands: Barclays Bank in the UK had/has? a phone tree where the only way to speak to a person is to stay silent.

    If you respond to any question you will get your account balance, and I mean any question: name, dob, airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow. If you don’t respond at all eventually it cracks and goes “I’ll connect you to one of our service team”

  73. 73.

    Another Scott

    Meanwhile, …

    lolgop
    @[email protected]

    If the money wasted in Greene’s district were spent on districts like the one George Santos won in NY or John James eeked out in Michigan, Democrats would control the House.

    So guess who’s behind this? The guy who raised $15 million to lose to Greene by 31%.

    nytimes.com/2023/04/20/us/poli…

    I get righteous anger and the desire to crush the monsters as much as anyone, but we have to be clear-headed and strategic in battling them.

    Watergirl and all the postcarders here have the right idea – invest and work strategically where the “margin of effort” matters most. Similarly with TheStatesProject.org.

    Eyes on the prizes.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  74. 74.

    bbleh

    @Geminid: from your keyboard to the FSM’s heavenly monitor!  My hope is that will happen before the stampede, but I ain’t bettin’ the farm on it

    @Sure Lurkalot: yeah I ain’t countin’ on the sociopaths to do anything for anyone else.  Fortunately they’re not the only ones who write checks.

  75. 75.

    kalakal

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    It neatly blows a hole in the “DeSpicable: Trump but with added competence!” line he’s been shilling.

    Any politician with an iota of competence turns up at a disaster affecting their constituents. It’s the easiest part of the job, you walk around, look sad but resolute. Give a speech of anodyne platitudes, tell everybody how they’ll come through better than before because New Yorkers, Texans, Nebraskans, Seychelloise, Floridians are uniquely Strong & Tough, then head for the bar.

    It can be done a lot better but most don’t manage it

    Basically the bare minimum is don’t show up wearing a “Shit happens” T-shirt, make encouraging noises, and stay out of the way of the experts BUT you show up. Honest Ron couldn’t even manage that

  76. 76.

    Anonymous At Work

    @Baud: Honestly, IAAL, I’d love to see MORE of this.  It’s why Rick Scott’s “idea” of sunsetting laws isn’t totally horrible; the bad faith in which he promoted the “idea” was the horrible part.  “Women showing their ankles” might seem like a joke but I wonder how many states still have laws against that technically on the books.

  77. 77.

    MagdaInBlack

    @NotMax: Part of every work day involves me trying to contact insurance companies to clarify a claim or track down payments. I’m sure I’ve invented whole new curse combinations. My favorite part is always ” Your call is very important to us.”

    Sure it is, that’s why I’m sitting here cursing and punching “0”

    😊

  80. 80.

    Geminid

    @bbleh: After the debt fight there may be a battle over military aid for Ukraine. Congress managed to include $44 billion in funding for Ukraine’s military in the December Omnibus bill, but that might not last very far into summer.

    And then there will be a fight over government funding for the next fiscal year. The deadline of October 1 is usually met with a continuing resolution that funds the federal government until Congress can hash things out. That will be problematic this time.

    So stock up on either popcorn, antacids, or both!

  81. 81.

    sdhays

    @kalakal: I joked a few days ago that he may have avoided going to Ft. Lauderdale because he didn’t want to be mocked over his boots again, but after I said it, I thought maybe it’s true.

  82. 82.

    Ohio Mom

    @NotMax: Did you consult the GetHuman site? They list shortcuts for some of the bigger phone trees. I’ve found them helpful in the past.

  88. 88.

    Geminid

    @sdhays: One low-probability outcome I find intriguing is a possible motion to vacate the Speaker chair and reorganize the House under new management. That would be a big step for Republican defectors, but in a couple more months they might be desperate to get away from the likes of Bob Good and Marjory Taylor Greene. Their caucus meetings could become insufferable.

  89. 89.

    SFAW

    @kalakal:

    He dreams of his shrimper booted legions goose stepping through Orlando.

    Springtime for Ronnie and Flor-i-duh

    Goosestep’s a new step this year …

    Maybe he’s hoping Dick Shawn can play him in the direct-to-video release.

  93. 93.

    James E Powell

    @Betty:

    The message I am getting is that we can’t humiliate the GOP and we can’t humiliate Putin or else they will blow up the world. Okay.

    Right-wingers are the most emotionally fragile creatures on the planet.

  94. 94.

    Another Scott

    @sdhays: The FTFNYT link is broken in my post, because it is really long.  You can get there via the link to LOLGOP’s post (on Mastodon).

    HTH!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  95. 95.

    bbleh

    @Geminid: true, but that’s nothing really new, because it’s really what Congress is for: to fight over the pie.  And ok [Watanabe voice] let them fight.  Even if it results in a temporary government shutdown (which I seriously doubt it will, since the Republicans got burned so badly the last time), it’s not that big a deal.  It’s the debt-ceiling thing, and thereby the undermining of Treasury notes and the resulting financial earthquake, that worries me.  It’s not clear the Idiot Caucus has been whacked sufficiently hard in the head with a 2-by-4 to understand how truly dumb that would be, and by the time they start to get the idea, it could be too late, even if some “moderates” are belatedly convinced to come to the rescue.

    I suppose in one way it’s a good thing they’re not interested in governing, because the whole damn party — both the idiots and their “moderate” enablers — are utterly unfit for it.

  96. 96.

    James E Powell

    @JWR:

    Very sloppy reporting, even if the 800lbs of Fentanyl were found on the migrants, which was the general impression I got from the story.

    It isn’t sloppy, it’s deliberate.

  101. 101.

    Another Scott

    @Geminid: Trouble is, of course, there isn’t a majority of the House (which would require near unanimity in their caucus unless Democrats agreed, and they can never agree with Democrats cause it makes St. Hastert cry) for anyone else.

    Some of the bomb-throwers would be very happy with the House grinding to a halt, but others have rediscovered their love for earmarks and wouldn’t like that outcome at all.

    New earmark requesters include some high-profile Republicans who did not request earmarks while Democrats ruled the chamber in the 117th Congress, including House Freedom Caucus members Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia, Andy Harris of Maryland and Ben Cline of Virginia.

    House Appropriations Chairwoman Kay Granger, R-Texas, is another GOP lawmaker who didn’t ask for earmarks in the last Congress but has now jumped in.

    Fourteen House Republicans in all who did not previously request earmarks, and 33 of the 40 freshman House Republicans, are participating in the “community project funding” process, according to Granger spokesman Alex Attebery.

    It’s up to them to figure out how to increase the debt ceiling, not up to us to create an exit strategy for them.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  102. 102.

    sdhays

    @Geminid: I don’t see a scenario that allows McCarthy to pass any compromises with all of his caucus voting with him. So, I assume there will be a temper tantrum at (at least) one of these junctions where someone will file a motion to vacate. And how it all shakes out when that happens is anyone’s guess.

  104. 104.

    Geminid

    @bbleh: It won’t be “moderates;” as you have probably observed also, journalists describe moderately conservative Repubublicans that way. And that type is getting scarcer.

    I look for any possible defectors to come mostly out of the veterans who are ready to retire. Then there are David Valadeo (CA) and Dan Newsome (WA). They both survived impeaching Trump by winning jungle primaries and then the general election. Defecting on a debt bill will be a less salient issue, it seems to me.

    Brian Fitzpatrick (PA) is another possibility, I think. He might be able to weather a primary in his suburban district. The vote would help him in the general election, where Democrats will be coming after him hard.

  105. 105.

    Bill Arnold

    Also from that Petri piece:

    You know how it goes. When people protest, they first decide, “Today is a good day to take to the streets.” They gather their blank signs, they go stand in the midst of traffic, and then they figure out what it is they’re there to protest. Ditto when a union goes on strike. First, they decide, “We feel like stopping work!” Then, and only then, do they figure out why.

  106. 106.

    Geminid

    @Another Scott: I am not “creating an exit strategy” for anyone. I am analyzing the dynamics of this situation, including the possible interplay of two House rules.

    The potential defectors on the Republican side already understand these dynamics, as do their Democratic adversaries.

  107. 107.

    artem1s

    Wasn’t a better time to do this when we were deciding how much money to spend on things

    yea, but that would mean the GOP would actually have to do their jobs and govern. it’s the downside of deciding that the best way to keep anyone else having a say at the table is to blow up the table.

  108. 108.

    Geminid

    @sdhays: Like I said, the probability of a reorganization of the House is low. But I do not think it would come out of right-wing challenge to McCarthy, and they are the ones most dissatisfied with him.

    I’m thinking of 5 or more Republicans (like the ones I mention at #104) joining Democrats in a motion to vacate the Speaker’s Chair. The new Speaker might be a caretaker who will ensure vital legislation- like a debt ceiling bill- to be voted on. Retired Republican Reps Charlie Dent or Tom Read might fit the bill.

    Democrats might go along with that. They’ll be electing their own Speaker come January, 2025 anyway.

  109. 109.

    Jinchi

    Problem now is McCarthy needs a face-saving way to back down from his party’s foolish positions.

    Why do Dems need to help McCarthy find a face-saving “off-ramp” when the party’s foolish positions are the reason he’s lost face in the first place?
    He isn’t loosing face because Democrats are pointing and laughing. He’s losing face because his own partisans keep exposing his utter powerlessness. And of course, the reason to let McCarthy wallow in a humiliation of his own making is to give Republicans incentive to never play a foolish stunt like this again.​

  110. 110.

    Matt

    But if Democrats claim complete and total victory, and humiliate opponents, there’s a chance some Republicans in House conference will act out and blow up the world economy anyway (i.e. withhold votes on debt limit).

    Which is why I say everyone needs to find an acceptable off-ramp.

    FFS centrists literally can’t imagine actually standing FOR anything, can they?

    The correct response to a red-hatted terrorist running in and announcing “I’M GONNA BLOW THIS WHOLE PLACE UP IF YOU DON’T DO WHAT I SAY” is, “DO IT THEN YOU COWARD”, not going gift-shopping for the terrorist.

    McCarthy’s “off-ramp” is to put the clean bill up for a vote and then resign. Or even better, bring a sack lunch like R. Budd Dwyer…

  111. 111.

    Another Scott

    @Jinchi: +1

    Of course, with the bomb throwers and government breakers it’s a heads-we-win (“yay me, we cut that wasteful government spending, vote for me”) tails-they-lose (“us losing shows that the woke monsters have too much power over Real America™, vote for me so that I can keep fighting them”) game in their eyes.  The solution to that is to keep them out of office by electing sensible people, and making sure that a sensible majority can actually carry out their duty to govern.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  113. 113.

    Bill Arnold

    This is one way to negotiate with Republicans:

    missouri’s trans snitch line is down after people spammed it with smut fics, rambling anecdotes, and the bee movie script

    the attorney general’s press secretary said “far left activists” are “resorting to trying to hack our system” t.co/dpmMysPGX3
    — morgan sung (@morgan_sung) April 21, 2023

  115. 115.

    twbrandt

    @OzarkHillbilly: McBroom earned the ire of MAGAts and Trump because he chaired a committee that looked into allegations of election fraud in Michigan in 2020. Not only did his committee not find any evidence of fraud, he recommended prosecuting a few people who were trying to undermine the electoral process.

    McBroom is a conservative Republican, but he’s not totally nuts.

  116. 116.

    Xavier

    @Baud: Simpson-Bowles is based on an entirely specious idea: that the budgetary constraints on a nation that creates its own money are the same as the budgetary constraints on households and firms that emphatically do not. Simpson-Bowles would massively cripple the economy.

  118. 118.

    dirge

    @Xavier: Simpson-Bowles would massively cripple the economy.

    Well, actually producing recommendations based on those faulty premises, and attempting to implement them, would indeed be a disaster.  But then, the Simpson-Bowles Commission never actually produced any recommendations, due to the super-majority requirement.  It was all a huge waste of time, by design.

    If you’d like to send the Republican budget wankery to a pointless, doomed to fail committee, to die a slow, quiet death out of public view, while gaslighting everyone into thinking you’re taking their bullshit seriously….  Then Simpson-Bowles is exactly the model you’re going for.  It’s a valid approach.

    Alternatively, there’s a reasonable argument to be made for taking the game of chicken all the way, assuming you’re very confident we can force a humiliating retreat on a tight schedule.

  119. 119.

    lowtechcyclist

    One possibility: Pass a clean debt-ceiling bill and pledge to work on some other priority that A) sounds tangentially related to deficit issues, and B) both parties could claim as a victory.

    In return for a clean debt ceiling extension, tell Qevin we’ll give him and his gang $200,000 worth of dimes.

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