Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

This year has been the longest three days of putin’s life.

Bark louder, little dog.

Republicans: “Abortion is murder but you can take a bus to get one.” Easy peasy.

American History and Black History can not be separated.

I have other things to bitch about but those will have to wait.

Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.

So it was an October Surprise A Day, like an Advent calendar but for crime.

If West Virginia and San Francisco had a love child.

Never give a known liar the benefit of the doubt.

A democracy can’t function when people can’t distinguish facts from lies.

A lot of Dems talk about what the media tells them to talk about. Not helpful.

But frankly mr. cole, I’ll be happier when you get back to telling us to go fuck ourselves.

Polls are now a reliable indicator of what corporate Republicans want us to think.

I also would like a pony to improve my balloon juice experience.

Black Jesus loves a paper trail.

GOP baffled that ‘we don’t care if you die’ is not a winning slogan.

If marriage is the equivalent of selling yourself into slavery, women with self respect should reject the offer.

He wakes up lying, and he lies all day.

Found liable for massive fraud, is required to post a massive bond, gets a break, then files a *fraudulent* bond!

Let there be snark.

ha ha ha! Nice try weird people.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires republicans to act in good faith.

Trump’s legal defense is going to be a dumpster fire inside a clown car on a derailing train.

if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Excellent Links / Saturday Night Open Thread: VP Harris and ‘the Tightrope’

Saturday Night Open Thread: VP Harris and ‘the Tightrope’

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… As has been the case with virtually every vice president since the nation’s founding, Harris gets a bad rap. The first duty of the job is to avoid upstaging the president, which means surrendering any political autonomy and never being out in front of the West Wing on any issue. Recall the way Mike Pence always stood like a hyperrealist statue, mute and expressionless, while President Donald Trump ranted and raved. Somehow, Pence managed to never even lift an eyebrow.

And when vice presidents are given actual tasks, they tend to be the impossible ones. Biden put Harris in charge of the border — at a time when there was absolutely no possibility of getting Congress to pass comprehensive immigration reform that might reduce the flow of would-be migrants. It was a classic no-win situation: She could make a show of raising hopes, which then would be dashed; or she could hunker down and keep expectations low. Either way, she was bound to be criticized for having failed…

The right-wing echo chamber accuses her of speaking in “word salad.” It is true that she often burdens her sentences with more dependent clauses than they can bear, and verbatim transcripts of her extemporaneous remarks can sometimes be hard to follow. But she also connects powerfully with audiences and communicates her message, even if it might be hard to diagram.

I glance at Harris’s public schedule every day, and one thing that stands out is how much time she has spent on foreign policy. It is not uncommon for visiting leaders to stop at the vice president’s residence. Her recent trip to Africa was well publicized, but she has also become a regular at gatherings such as the Munich Security Conference — where, in February 2022, she was the last high-ranking U.S. official to meet with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky before Russian tanks rolled into his country. She reportedly implored him to believe the assessment of U.S. intelligence agencies that Russia would indeed invade.

That experience is particularly relevant because of Biden’s age. Republican candidate Nikki Haley has already previewed the GOP line of attack. “I think we can all be very clear and say with a matter of fact that if you vote for Joe Biden, you really are counting on a President Harris,” she said Wednesday on Fox News, “because the idea that he would make it until 86 years old is not something that I think is likely.”

Fact-check: Biden is in good health, according to his doctors, and I know of no reason why he should not be expected to live through a second term. But one of Harris’s important tasks during the campaign will be to demonstrate that she is prepared to assume the awesome responsibilities of commander in chief if necessary.

Her other big task will be to energize voters around the issues on which the Republican Party has boxed itself into fringe positions that are rejected by most Americans. Especially on abortion — and the GOP’s ongoing attempt to deny women autonomy over their own bodies — I expect her voice to be a clarion call. And, as in 2020, I expect her to inspire and motivate the Democratic Party’s most loyal voters, African American women.

As the first woman and first Black and South Asian American to serve as vice president, Harris was destined to be held to an impossible standard. Now, as the reelection campaign begins, she gets to show the talent and drive that got her there.

Reader Interactions

157Comments

  1. 1.

    Ken

    Mike Pence always stood like a hyperrealist statue, mute and expressionless

    Play to your strengths.

  3. 3.

    mvr

    Most of the negative stories are just plain unfair, since they have more to do with the job of being VP than her.  But, maybe because I get my media mostly online and don’t watch TV, I can’t actually see any of the things people complain of.  She’s smart; she’s upbeat; she enjoys the work. It makes me happy that she is doing that job. I think she brings a lot to the present ticket and I fully expect her to do well when she runs to succeed Biden.

    But I’m probably not a typical voter. Never saw what anyone saw in Ronald Reagan.  I just remember him as a punch line on one of the Woodstock albums.  In any case, I think she rocks.

  5. 5.

    SpaceUnit

    To our political press competence and decorum is boring.

    The poo-flinging monkeys make better tv.

  6. 6.

    Mike in Pasadena

    Vice President Biden supported gay marriage before President Obama. In other words he got out in front of the president.

    Newsome started holding same sex marriages in SF before Obergefell in 2015. I think Biden and Newsome together helped give the pre-TFG Supreme Court political room. I am grateful to both men.

  7. 7.

    Baud

    I’m going to go out on a limb and predict that Biden will ably serve this full second term.

    But then I’m not trying to frighten old white people into voting Republican.

  8. 8.

    Mike in Pasadena

    I overheard  two Republican women talking.

    W1: Biden won’t live to the end of his term.

    W2: (horrified and exclaiming) Oh No! Then that WOMAN would be president!

    Harris is a woman, a Democrat, and a minority. Three no nos for wealthy, smug, self satisfied Republicans.

  9. 9.

    eclare

    @Baud:   I think he will too, he is in great shape with the biking and has the best health care in the US.  IIRC his mother lived well into her nineties.

  10. 10.

    Trivia Man

    The crux of the entire matter to me is translating that 61% to votes on the box on election day. If that age cohort turns out – the tsunami will change the country almost overnight. I am hopeful she can energize them and bring them out.

  11. 11.

    Gvg

    She was my first choice, not Biden. I understood the electorate as a whole might not be able to pick a black woman, and I was prepared to vote strategically. I watched Hillary get slandered for 30 years over nothing of substance. I want to fight this. Hoping the fact of Hillary will give us an example to hold up and say watch what fool stories you believe without thinking.

    Thats what I want. A campaign to wake up the young to how stupid the smears against Hillary were (and a lot of other women in other jobs) and what it cost us. Plenty of democrats I know do not to this day realize they were propagandized into being suspicious of Hillary or that she was never crooked, that Bill was a womanizer but not crooked etc, it was deliberate smears coming from the fearful of equality for women and minorities.

  12. 12.

    eclare

    @Gvg:   And I want people to understand the connection between voting and who sits on SCOTUS.  People dismissed Hillary’s concerns about SCOTUS as fear-mongering.  Wake the fuck up, people.

  14. 14.

    Alison Rose

    @Mike in Pasadena: Yeah, similar (at least one one axis) with their response to HRC. For many men (and not only Republicans, but mostly them), the idea of a woman president is like having a woman boss, since in a sense, the president is like the boss of the country, at least in their minds. And there are a lot of dudes who haaaaate the idea of a woman as their boss. And then for a lot of white people, having a person of color in charge is, you know, not to their liking, as a certain former president could attest.

    They don’t want anyone they view as beneath them to end up above them.

  15. 15.

    Jeffro

    Only the folks who had their dreams of an Eternal White Supremacist Paradise dashed with trumpov’s 2020 lost will be berserk animated to vote primarily against the current VP

    Unfortunately, this describes 99% of today’s GQP.

    So…let’s get to work, peeps!  We kicked his ass last time and that was before multiple indictments, increasingly insane video statements, and the realization that this clown has cost them three straight elections.

  16. 16.

    SpaceUnit

    It’s going to be amusing to see how the pundits spin the age issue when trump again claims the Republican nomination in 2028.

  17. 17.

    Aussie Sheila

    @schrodingers_cat:

    This exactly. The Dems should be fierce in their loyalty and support for her. I can see from here they are trying to ‘Hillary Clinton’ her.

    If anything, heaven forfend, happens to Joe Biden,  she will be a strong candidate and a strong President.

  18. 18.

    Jeffro

    Oh and for this

    According to CBS News 

    Harris’ approval among voters under 30 is 61% — which is about double than what it is among Gen X & Boomers.

    what can one say except fuck Gen X and the Boomers?  =)

  19. 19.

    Jeffro

    @SpaceUnit: well, clearly the 77-year-old morbidly obese guy who eats nothing but fast food, red meat, fries, and Diet Cokes is far superior health-wise to the guy who’s what, 165 pounds and works out every morning.

    Clearly.

    //

  21. 21.

    Aussie Sheila

    @Jeffro:

    Yes. The guy who couldn’t walk down a ramp unassisted. That’s the one whose health should go unremarked.

  25. 25.

    sdhays

    @Baud: Biden is a lot healthier than Trump, so despite Biden’s extra years, I honestly think the chance of Trump dying first is higher than 50/50.

  27. 27.

    delphinium

    @Mike in Pasadena: So, do these dipshits honestly think that Trump (most likely nominee at the moment), who is in far worse shape than Biden, would make it thru a 2nd term?

    And I’m guessing that if Trump chose Haley as his VP for example, these same women would suddenly have no issues  voting for a woman and a minority.

  28. 28.

    Jeffro

    @Cameron: hoping as always for follow-ups (polling or otherwise) but the snooze media seems determined not to drill down into such touchy subjects…

  30. 30.

    SpaceUnit

    @Jeffro:

    The same people who are moaning about Biden being sooo old will claim that Biden’s successful 2nd term completely cleared the issue for trump.

    And with a straight face.

  31. 31.

    Suzanne

    @Jeffro:

    well, clearly the 77-year-old morbidly obese guy who eats nothing but fast food, red meat, fries, and Diet Cokes is far superior health-wise to the guy who’s what, 165 pounds and works out every morning. 

    For serious.
    I would find their attacks on Biden’s age and fitness more compelling if they weren’t trying to convince me that Donald Fucking Trump, who is so out of shape that he needed a golf cart to haul his ass 500 yards, and who is in such clear cognitive decline that he can’t form a basic sentence, was the healthy and vigorous alternative.

  34. 34.

    Aussie Sheila

    @Suzanne:

    Yes. The guy who can’t walk a golf course and has to be driven around in a golf cart to go 50 metres. That’s the one whose health can’t be interrogated. You know, the overweight, sniffling, shuffling sociopath.

  39. 39.

    mrmoshpotato

    @eclare:

    And I want people to understand the connection between voting and who sits on SCOTUS. People dismissed Hillary’s concerns about SCOTUS as fear-mongering. Wake the fuck up, people. 

    Preach!

  40. 40.

    rikyrah

    I have admitted that the thing I got most wrong about 2016 is the level of misogyny against Hillary.

     

    Will not make that mistake with MVP.

    Pointing out the misogyny and refusing to let muthaphuckas gaslight me about it….that is the fight for Harris supporters.

     

    You can’t remotely tell me that they even did polling about Vice-Presidents  before Kamala Harris.

    😠😠😠

  45. 45.

    JCJ

    @eclare:  I was thinking the same thing about Biden’s mother – longevity with good health.  I remember that exact scenario was a reason given by the media when the age of John McCain was cited as a concern since his mother was in good shape at an advanced age.  In other words, the usual shifting of goal posts.

  46. 46.

    mrmoshpotato

    @SpaceUnit:

    It’s going to be amusing to see how the pundits spin the age issue when trump again claims the Republican nomination in 2028. 

    You think the fat, orange, fascist shitstain won’t have a massive heart attack before then?

  49. 49.

    Kelly

    @Gvg: She was my first choice, not Biden.

    I hadn’t decided between Harris and Warren. I was leaning Harris based on her experience as District Attorney, San Francisco and Attorney General of California. Running a large public agency would be useful experience.

    Biden has handled the Presidency very, very well. I expect him to complete two terms. I look forward to supporting Harris in 2028.

  50. 50.

    Chetan Murthy

    @rikyrah: I’m still not over it.  Still bitter AF.  And those rapey creeps who interviewed her and opined on how she wasn’t suitable, fuck them too.

  52. 52.

    Kelly

    @BellyCat: My dear departed dog Alice snarfed up a bunch of leftover mini Reese’s peanut butter cups after Halloween 2001. Our Vet assured me the foil would go thru just fine and he was right. She lived another 6 years.

  53. 53.

    Ruckus

    I’m an old white man, only 6 yrs younger than Joe Biden. He is aging better than I am, which is to say he’s  pretty damn good at aging slowly. At 84 my mom was still working, at her local police station, not on the law enforcement side. She lived 11 more years and was damn strong physically and mentally for quite a few of them. Joe seems to be in better shape than she was and gets excellent health care, even before becoming president. As a geezer my own self I see no reason why he shouldn’t run and do well. He’s doing a better job at 80 than any republican that’s been president in my 7+ decades has done.

    And I voted for Harris in the primary because she’s damn good. And I am not sorry in the least that Joe Biden is president. I hope she runs after Joe’s next stint.

  56. 56.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Joe Biden just cited NYTimes Pitchbot at the correspondents’ dinner

    “I love that guy”

  61. 61.

    Jeffro

    @Kelly: Warren was my first choice.

    I think with Biden 1.0 we essentially got a Warren presidency within the limits of what was possible, Congress-wise.

    With Biden 2.0 (and FSM willing, recapturing the House), I’m hopin’ and prayin’ that we go right at all the structural things that need to happen – expanding SCOTUS, expanding the House – if we’re going to continue as a democracy er excuse me republic.

  62. 62.

    Gin & Tonic

    WH Correspondents dinner is on in the background, and DougJ’s Twitter account just got a shout-out from Uncle Joe.

    ETA: slow typist, me

  63. 63.

    Ruckus

    @sdhays:

    I agree with this. I haven’t listened to any thing/noise he’s uttered since Jan 6 but I understand that his rants are getting pretty difficult to even make any sense of, let alone understand so I’d say he’s falling fast. I’ve watched a lot of relatives and seniors in the complex I live in (have to be over 55, federal program complex) age out and all of them sound better than he does. So I don’t see him able to take office even if he managed to win.  Joe Biden is only about 3 1/2 yrs older than SFB and is in far, far better health than SFB. Who was/has shit for brains long ago.

  67. 67.

    Sure Lurkalot

    I have zero FTG about trash talking VP Harris. It has nothing to do with her capabilities.

    It is a thankless job but my god, she brings issues to the table, is studied, competent, compassionate. What about that would make a bad president?

  69. 69.

    Jeffro

    @rikyrah: there used to be the odd poll here and there over the decades, and it always came up that the VP pick (whether for the first run or a re-election run) never mattered.

    I think Baud’s right: this time, unfortunately, it’ll matter.  Probably not to anyone who was D-gettable anyway, but it’ll be the One Weird Excuse that a lot of R-leaning folks use to vote against the Biden/Harris ticket.

  73. 73.

    Jeffro

    @Quinerly: tomorrow, I want to talk about the excellent NYT article about Carlson and how his firing is different for Fox, and where’s he’s likely to focus his malign energies going forward.

    He’s a psycho and he’s going to take “running against the establishment” to a new creepy-o art form in the next 18 months.

  75. 75.

    Quinerly

    @Jeffro:

    Biden is on fire tonight. Must see (actually, I’m listening and am going to watch it later…I guess on YouTube)

  76. 76.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Jeffro:

    but it’ll be the One Weird Excuse that a lot of R-leaning folks use to vote against the Biden/Harris ticket.

    Didn’t Biden win with some of those folks in some states, like Arizona/Georgia?

  82. 82.

    Quinerly

    “If you find yourself disoriented or confused, either you’re drunk, or Marjorie Taylor Greene … the best way to make NPR go away is for Elon Musk to buy it!” Pres Biden

  84. 84.

    zhena gogolia

    @Baud: The first question on the NYT news quiz on Friday was: “If re-elected, how old will Joe Biden be by the end of his second term? A. 74 B. 80 C. 86 D. 92 E. 98” I shit you not.

  85. 85.

    Quinerly

    “I’d call Fox honest fair and truthful. But then I could be sued for defamation.” Pres Biden

  86. 86.

    kindness

    Elizabeth Warren was my first choice in ’20.  Kamela became my 1st choice when Warren dropped out.  I voted for her for Att General & Senator here in Ca.  I already liked her.  I’m saddened that her being a woman and a minority woman at that are factors for some.  If Trump’s term taught me anything it’s that there are a lot more racists in this country than I thought there were.

  89. 89.

    JaneE

    There is no question about Harris’ ability to be president.  Trump set the bar so low a cockroach could clear it.  The issue is what it always has been – her sex and color.

    I hope most voters will make the right decision a second time and vote for Biden and Harris.

  91. 91.

    Jeffro

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): um I don’t know, let me go check in with them personally???

    Let’s just go with: the guy restored the ‘Blue Wall’ and then some.  TFG is swirling down the Drains of Insanity and is approaching the Shoals of Multiple Indictments at the same time.

    (the best metaphors are mixed metaphors ;)

    I like our chances!

  94. 94.

    Ruckus

    @Jeffro:

    TFG is swirling down the Drains of Insanity and is approaching the Shoals of Multiple Indictments at the same time.

    That deserves a second showing. Hell that could be an entire post on it’s own.

  96. 96.

    Quinerly

    @Jeffro:

    And, of course, if Carlson runs for president and wins….everyone will blame Biden for pushing him to that by insulting him.

  97. 97.

    Percysowner

    @Gvg: ​
     She was my second choice, I say while wearing my Yet, She Persisted Elizabeth Warren Swag. Like many I was not impressed by Biden, at the time. I am overjoyed at how wrong I was. Biden is so impressive and Harris would be a great follow up.

  99. 99.

    Sebastian

    There is the possibility that Trump will attack Harris but with all the legal brouhaha around Trump’s crimes and Biden throwing bait at him, I doubt there will be enough airtime for Harris.

  105. 105.

    Jeffro

    @Quinerly: Carlson only has ‘the juice’ inside the wingnut bubble – he doesn’t have the decades-long name recognition, association with extreme wealth, “business expertise”, etc. with the general public.  If anything, he’s either a) the guy who got owned by Jon Stewart a couple decades ago or b) the weirdo that Grandpa MUST SEE* every night at 8pm.

    *well, until last week, anyway! LOL

    And him running in 2024 just kneecaps trumpov.

    I think he’s going to find some sort of media/internet/whatever outlet and vent and vent and vent, and keep his people stirred up for as long as he can…then fizzle out.  Because weirdo websites and Newsmax and podcasts and what not can keep the fringes riled up, but they ain’t Fox

    ETA: BUT…he is a complete psycho and has been canned publicly three times now, so who knows?  All I know is that it’s extremely unlikely that anything he says or does will benefit the Ds (even if/when he damages the Rs) but it will almost certainly damage our democracy.

  108. 108.

    mvr

    @Jeffro: It is also going to matter to D base voters. You dump her and you lose a lot of enthusiasm. Not that Biden doesn’t know this and didn’t know it when he picked Harris. The Biden/Harris branding on most everything is no accident and part of their strength.

  112. 112.

    Quinerly

    Biden’s Kevin McCarthy joke, “The speaker is trying to claim a big win this week, but the last time Republicans voted on something that hapless, it took 15 tries.”

  114. 114.

    Geoduck

    Since it’s an open thread… right after the latest Texas gun-massacre, Gov. Abbott’s Twitter’s feed posted a picture of a golden retriever and added “All smiles for the weekend.” Couldn’t even spare some thoughts and prayers.

  118. 118.

    TriassicSands

    @Quinerly:

    I don’t blame Obama for TFG, but I have always wondered if he hadn’t made such a fool of Trump at the Correspondents’ Dinner if Trump would actually ever have run.

    OTOH, watching Trump seething was wonderful. It said so much about him as a person — none of it good, which isn’t surprising since there is absolutely nothing good one can say about Trump.

    Someday, there will be something good to say about Trump — he died. Finally, an act worth celebrating.

  120. 120.

    Quinerly

    @TriassicSands:

    It was a great thing that night with Obama and then watching Trump’s expressions…and everybody laughing but Trump.

    I’m blanking….was that the same night that Bin Laden was killed? Order given to go in?

  121. 121.

    TriassicSands

    @Quinerly:

    Different nights, I think. From what I can glean, the dinner was on April 30; bin Laden went down on May 2. So, very close together if both those dates are accurate

    Ironically, it might have been better for the US, if Obama had made fun of bin Laden and the Seals had taken out…

  122. 122.

    eclare

    @Amir Khalid:   The chicken foldover sounds great!  And I would get that porridge all the time in the winter.  Do you live near where that was filmed?

  123. 123.

    Chetan Murthy

    @TriassicSands: Heh, you made me look.  And yeah, in my memory, he came from overseeing that raid, to giving the speech.  In reality (as you note) he had just *authorized* the raid, and gave the speech, while it was being put-in-motion, but it was a few days later that it actually transpired.

  126. 126.

    JaySinWA

    @Jeffro: I could see Tucker aligning himself with the Flynn insurrection plotters.d

    ETA: Some people have claimed he is too lazy to do a presidential run, but being the power behind the throne would be right up his alley.

  130. 130.

    Amir Khalid

    @eclare:

    I’m just a short train ride away. Beef/chicken foldover season is over for this year, alas, but the item should be back in 10 months time. The other items he tried are all on the permanent menu.

  134. 134.

    Amir Khalid

    @eclare:

    The ‘Mekdi” menu in Malaysia is all-halal so there’s no McRib season, but in December/January we do get the beef/chicken Prosperity Burger: rectangular patty, oodles of black pepper sauce, some raw onion. Simple but hella good.

  140. 140.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Quinerly: Oh, I learned about ’em here long, long ago.  They have a ton of great covers/remixes.  Haley Reinhart did a ton of stuff with them — all great.  Also, do you know Pink Martini ?

  143. 143.

    Aussie Sheila

    @Jeffro:

    Thank you. Of all the dumb takes, ‘Carlson running for President’ is absolute Pitchbot material. He FA and now he is FO that Murdoch is the boss of Fox, not him. I see a podcast interviewing Jimmy Dore and the bore from Rio.

  144. 144.

    Quinerly

    @Chetan Murthy:

    All new to me. An old St. Louis buddy started sending me links a couple of weeks ago. Now that I am looking at the dates on the YouTubes I realize I have been totally out of the loop on PMJ for a few years.

    This is a mostly Mark Knopfler, Van Morrison, Dr. John, Leon Russell, Joe Cocker, Bob Dylan, Al Kooper, Steely Dan, Little Feat, Josh Ritter, AJ Croce, Bonnie Raitt, Maria Muldaur household.

    Dr John’s last album released since his death is fantastic. Speaking of covers: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_87UySpRnqc&pp=ygUUZHIgam9obiBpdCdzIGFscmlnaHQ%3D

  145. 145.

    Quinerly

    WHCD tonight

    Roy Wood Jr, “Do you understand how rich you have to be to buy a supreme court — a black one, on top of that! There’s only two in stock. And he owns half the inventory. We can all see Clarence Thomas, but he belongs to billionaire Harlan Crowe. And that’s what an NFT is.”

  146. 146.

    Amir Khalid

    @Aussie Sheila:

    I agree with you about Tucker. I don’t see him being organised enough to run for president. And that whiny peevish voice makes him tough to listen to for any length of time.

  148. 148.

    tobie

    This thread is probably long since dead but I’ll add all the same that I voted for Biden in spite of Harris not because of her. The ticket is what it is in 2024. The stakes are too high to quibble. But I hate the reflexive defenses of Harris. She has a tin ear for language. I’ve heard her speak live and she’s an atrocious public speaker. And she’s easy to catch flat-footed in interviews. I was disappointed when Biden picked her as his running mate and nothing she’s done as VP inspires confidence.

  150. 150.

    Amir Khalid

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: ​
    What McDonalds USA ought to do is bring in national and regional items from around the world and offer them in the US as special items. You never know what might catch on.

  153. 153.

    artem1s

    @TriassicSands:

    if he hadn’t made such a fool of Trump at the Correspondents’ Dinner if Trump would actually ever have run

    He had already started running. IIRC he pulled out of 2012 early because he didn’t want to have to stop doing Apprentice (campaign grifting money wasn’t good enough yet evidently). Lots of people, including the MSM he got so much attention from four/five years later, were making fun of him because of his weird campaign publicity stunt of sending a team to Hawaii to surf on his dime look for the birth certificate. Obama’s was just more visible and a pretty epic take down. Obama probably moved himself up to the top of the list that night though. And once he was elected, TFG had extra motivation to wipe out Obama’s accomplishments. But TFG was always going to run in 2016. And he always has a list of people who he’s seeking revenge for some petty grievance. His whole 2016 primary campaign was designed to stick it to everyone in the GOP who had made fun of him.

    But the dinner became legendary and linked in everyone’s mind to TFG take down because of what happened later with bin Laden. The content of the speech and reference to TFG was only solidified in everyone’s memory well AFTER the election because it was such a strong demonstration of what coolness under pressure looked like and that the new president didn’t have it. There are plenty of other people who pissed off The Donald who we have footage of insulting him. If the fault lies anywhere, it lies with the GOP primary candidates who couldn’t use the take down to their advantage. They had all witnessed a master class on how to do it and just couldn’t pull it off themselves. As always, it’s not the Dem’s fault the GOP couldn’t keep this asshole in line and let him take over their Party.

  155. 155.

    TriassicSands

    @artem1s:

    This is too late to be seen, but I’ll simply add, I never blamed Obama, but the epic takedown had to be extra incentive to Trump, who is a lazy POS. However, I doubt if anything apart from grifting inspires TFG more than getting revenge. I expect that if he has a favorite movie character it would have to be Paul Lazzaro from Slaughterhous Five: “Anybody ever asks you what the sweetest thing in life is–” said Lazzaro, “it’s revenge.”

  156. 156.

    karen marie

    @Jeffro:  I watched a synopsis on youtube of Maddow from last week where she talked about rightwing figures prominent in the media.

    There’s no more a chance of Tucker running for president than Bill O’Reilly or Glenn Beck.

    The defining feature of O’Reilly, Beck and – I expect – Tucker is that when they lose their 8 pm time slot on Fox, they disappear.  Like Beck and O’Reilly, he will soon become irrelevant.  Tucker – like Beck and O’Reilly – will be replaced by someone just as heinous but none of them, as individuals, are as important as the Fox platform.

    There was no chatter about O’Reilly running for president after he was fired because of the timing – O’Reilly was fired in 2017, after Trump was elected.

    “Asking the question” about Tucker elevates him beyond his actual importance.

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