BREAKING: Treasury Sec. Janet Yellen warns that the U.S may reach its debt limit by June 1 — exactly one month from today. pic.twitter.com/szuXEqBsi8
— Meet the Press (@MeetThePress) May 1, 2023
McCarthy to meet with Biden on debt ceiling | @MZanona https://t.co/G8VWLPqHJL
— State of the Union (@CNNSotu) May 2, 2023
House Speaker Kevin McCarthy has accepted an invitation to meet with President Joe Biden on May 9 about the debt ceiling, according to a source familiar, setting the stage for a high-stakes moment in the debt ceiling standoff.
Biden invited all four Congressional leaders to the meeting…
The House passed a package to raise the debt ceiling by $1.5 trillion last week. The billMcCarthy responded to Yellen’s comments Monday in a statement that said, “The clock is ticking.” – which includes spending cuts, beefed-up work requirements in safety net programs and other measures that Democrats would not accept – has been described by Democratic Sen. Chuck Schumer as “dead on arrival” in the Senate.
Following the bill’s passage in the House, Biden told reporters he would be “happy to meet with McCarthy, but not on whether or not the debt limit gets extended.” The White House has maintained that the president would only accept a clean proposal to raise the nation’s borrowing limit…
DC and Wall Street conventional wisdom says this debt limit fight is fundamentally like 2011. That's based on missing the key development within the D party over the last generation which makes default or extraordinary Treasury actions far more likely. https://t.co/PwhmD4XEx1
— Josh Marshall (@joshtpm) May 1, 2023
I think Josh Marshall has the smart take here — “It’s Gonna Be a Rough Ride”:
… Most observers think that the White House’s stance not to negotiate over the debt is fundamentally a negotiating position, a stance aimed at driving political gains from highlighting both unpopular Republican demands but also general disorganization and antics from their most extreme members. Once that’s done they’ll be forced to come to the table and negotiate a way out of the impasse, the logic goes. In other words, the situation is fundamentally the same as what happened in 2011.
Certainly, Republicans see it that way. They took a clear lesson from 2011. They threatened the unthinkable and forced Barack Obama to accede to their demands, agreeing to major budget cuts that played out over the remainder of his term. They have the confidence of knowing that they are very willing to shoot their hostage if their demands or a major part of them aren’t met. (Indeed, a part of their caucus is eager to shoot their hostage for reasons that mix individual personality disorders and group ideology.) That confidence in their willingness to shoot their hostage is shared, rightly, across the political spectrum and by the less overtly political stakeholders observing the drama unfold. It shapes everyone’s understanding of what’s happening: Republicans are willing to do the unthinkable; and since the unthinkable can’t happen, it’s up to the Democratic President to save the country from it.
The problem with all these assumptions is that it fails to take into account the internal politics of the Democratic Party over the last dozen years. One of the central takeaways from the Obama years not only for lots of Dem political junkies but perhaps more importantly for the Democratic political class is that Barack Obama’s decision to negotiate was a categorical and grave error and that can’t ever be repeated. The people who learned that lesson from the inside now basically run the Biden administration. Many have comparable positions; others at the highest level were a rung or two lower 12 years ago. Joe Biden is known as being one of those people who interpreted the lessons of that drama in the same way even though, or perhaps because, he played a key role in negotiating the outcome. In other words, it’s the same GOP, but it’s not the same Democratic Party. We are likely to hit the crisis with neither side willing to give way…
Joe Biden can’t operate without support from his own party and fundamentally he’s a median Democrat. He’ll always be where the center of gravity of the Democratic Party happens to be. Missing that reality is why so many were surprised at how he’s governed. If Biden’s “no negotiations” position is real, he needs a response to Republican willingness to kill their hostage. It’s not clear what that is. And if he has one he needs to keep it under wraps until the final moment, adding a huge amount of danger and drama to what unfolds…
"It would not be pretty…The stock market would likely plummet…Cars and homes would get even more expensive. The U.S. could tip into a recession. People would lose their jobs."
MAGA Republicans are bringing us to the verge of disaster. https://t.co/mBDlCUUNnr
— Senator Chris Van Hollen (@ChrisVanHollen) May 2, 2023
One more time:
House Republican voted to ?
?cut 81,000 jobs in VA health services
?cut 30 million outpatient visits for veterans
?and increase disability backlogs by 134,000 claims https://t.co/IO4RbH8dkP— DCCC (@dccc) May 1, 2023
On The Road – Dorothy A. Winsor – South American cruise–Chile
rikyrah
Good Morning, Everyone😊😊😊
rikyrah
Yes, they are hoping for a default. Economic TREASON against this country, which is who the Republicans are😠😠😠
OzarkHillbilly
Something a little lighter than the above:
The jokes write themselves.
Suzanne
@rikyrah: Good morning, happy Tuesday.
I am really sad about Gordon Lightfoot. Loved his music. There’s something delightfully analog about it in a way that I can’t quite describe. Like watching him, you can almost see how his mind worked to put a song together. If y’all never saw the documentary (on Netflix, I think?) about him, I recommend it.
OzarkHillbilly
The Dust Bowl Returneth?
The NWS said it would be bad and they weren’t just a woofin’.
NotMax
Now humming the tune to Never.
;)
Suzanne
@OzarkHillbilly: When I lived in Phoenix, I experienced quite a few of those kinds of storms. If you’ve never been in one, it’s difficult to convey how weird it is. Visibility gets down to almost nothing, but there’s still light…..but it’s bounced around by all of the dust particles, and so there’s very little shadow. It’s very disorienting.
The official advice is to pull over and turn your lights off, because other drivers will follow any light they can see, but they can’t tell how close you are, and they’ll hit you.
Betty Cracker
Saw that take by Josh Marshall yesterday, and it seems right to me too. The post-2011 situation, where Repubs refuse to pay the country’s bills unless one of their own is in the Oval, is intolerable. Maybe Biden is the guy to put an end to it once and for all.
There’s a ton of coverage on the disadvantages of having an old president. Maybe an undervalued advantage is a willingness to do hard stuff, even if it’s scary and difficult and results in bad outcomes before anything good comes of it, like getting out of Afghanistan.
Kay
@Betty Cracker:
Biden is stubborn, in a good way.
Bill K
I wish every press article would note the ‘debt ceiling’ is a totally ridiculous rule that no other country in the world has. No other country says “if our debt rises to a certain level we will just stop paying”. I never see any suggestion that this rule should be abolished.
NotMax
@Kay
Not so much a case of being stubborn as it is a case of being level-headed.
lowtechcyclist
The GOP alternative to destroying the economy is destroying the climate, as their price for raising the debt ceiling is the repeal of last year’s Inflation Reduction Act (IRA) which had a bunch of stuff in it that amounted to a decent start at trying to rein in global warming.
Well, if the GOP crashes the U.S. and world economy, that’ll certainly mean less CO2 pumped into the atmosphere, so at least that would buy us some time on climate change. Some silver lining, huh?
Soprano2
@Kay: I think the Republicans don’t believe he’ll stay with his position, because always in the past Democrats blinked. He’s not going to blink. I’d like to see him use the 14th Amendment, saying that Congress cannot impede the government’s ability to pay its bills. Just do away with this mis-named insanity once and for all.
Snarki, child of Loki
We wouldn’t be having these problems with MAGAts and GOP debt terrorism if COVID-19 did what it was supposed to do!
#insert <ShoddyChineseProductsRant.h>
Soprano2
@lowtechcyclist: I can’t believe the R’s think it’s an acceptable deal to say “Undo your signature achievement for last year and we’ll raise it just enough that we’ll have this fight next year in the middle of an election”. Who would be insane enough to take a deal like that?
Betty Cracker
@Kay: I hope he stays stubborn on this issue because someone has to, at long last. The Dems seem to have his back; they know this is intolerable too. One of the pol gossip rags — Axios, Politico or wherever — had a piece about a few Dem squishes who emerged to complain, but that always happens.
lowtechcyclist
@Bill K:
Seconded.
The debt ceiling is a totally artificial problem that shouldn’t even exist in the first place, which is why I’m totally on board with artificial solutions. Mint the frickin’ coin!
Kay
@NotMax:
No, I think he’s stubborn. The more they shrieked over pulling out of Afghanistan the more he dug in to the position. He believed we should have been out of Afghanistan and apparently believed that for years. I think he’s confident in who he is and what he knows.
lowtechcyclist
@Soprano2:
You’d think that would be the TL;DR analysis of this bullshit offer in all the media. But plenty of ‘sensible centrists’ with platforms in our so-called ‘liberal’ media are saying this shows Qevin is negotiating in good faith, so Biden should get down and negotiate with him.
Makes me want to hurl.
Kay
@Betty Cracker:
Me too. If it’s true he made a decision on this he will stick.
OzarkHillbilly
If Joe is going to use the 14th Amendment, now would be a good time to bring forth a suit challenging the constitutionality of the debt limit. Mind you a better time would have been a few decades ago, but better late than never.
Jeffro
The GOP wants a default on the national debt for the same reason the GOP went all-in on anti-vax nonsense: they want to kneecap Joe Biden and the Democrats any way they can, regardless of the cost to the country.
Hundreds of thousands of excess deaths in our country, even once vaccines were widely available.
A default on our nation’s debt for the first time in our history.
It’s all the same, murderous thing.
Jeffro
This is the way forward, right here.
Kay
lol. None of them can ever keep their mouths shut. They brag.
Chief Oshkosh
@lowtechcyclist:
Not doubting you, but could you share links to some of them?
Soprano2
@Kay: OMG, that’s hilarious, he wrote down what he was doing!!!! They never think there will be any consequences for what they do.
azlib
@Kay:
Keep in mind the Dems did not cave when the Republicans repeated the hostage taking in 2013. One thing that is happening is how extreme the Repubican position really is on this, especially the cuts to the VA. I do not think the American people like shorting our vets. I am also surprised (not really since a lot of business leaders are really dumb) that they have not come out against repealing the IRA which is mostly incentives for private investment in clean energy.
Baud
@rikyrah:
Good morning.
Another Scott
I don’t think that there’s enough emphasis on what the House bill does with the debt ceiling. Yes, +$1.5T, but, that only lasts until March 2024. So we would be in this mess again in less than a year.
“Yay! We saved the baby hostage!!”
“What, you mean you’re still keeping the baby hostage??! WTF??!!!”
It’s not serious. No president would accept those terms.
It’s still early, there will still be 2-3 more weeks of pontificating about it before there will be “serious” discussions. And even then, I would expect a “temporary” extension while “negotiations” continue. Don’t expect any progress until GQP Senators start pressing for Qevin and the bomb throwers to get their act together.
It will probably be resolved (under some definition of “resolved” considering the GQP controls the House) before September 30. Or maybe it will be rolled into a CR again.
Action may depend on how the various markets react. Congress can act very quickly if it looks like the economy is imploding.
I still think default is unlikely.
Cheers,
Scott.
BlueGuitarist
@Bill K:
also ridiculous, like debt ceiling, the phrase
“beefed-up work requirements”
in the cnn article quoted at top and frequently.
Wish lazy reporters and Republican-talking-points-enforcing editors would google
“work requirements don’t work” and learn.
But they’ll keep reinforcing positive framing for bad policies that sound tough to the uninformed,
like they keep calling tax Scams “tax cuts”
carrying water for Rs and their “default on America” scheme
OzarkHillbilly
@Kay: “Taking notes of a fucking criminal conspiracy???”
eta: forgot the F word
zhena gogolia
@Suzanne: Thanks for the recommendation. He had a unique voice.
cain
The maga people are fine with shorting everything – never have I seen a group of activists bent on making sure that the richest people get the best while undercutting their own benefits. That fox bubble is pretty good VR.
They are going to blink because their millionaires and billionaires do not like seeing economic cataclysm.
Kay
@Soprano2:
I think there was so much fawning coverage of him and his campaign manager, Christoper Rufo, and their brilliant culture war (which of course ALL Americans backed, in this telling) that he basically lost his mind. It’s obviously unlawful to target a company with punishment from the state for the company’s political speech. No one told him this?
The far Right have tried this before with Disney but they weren’t dumb enough to make punishing speech state policy- they did a boycott.
p.a.
I remember kinda-sorta understanding at the time how minting trillion-dollar coins was a totally constitutional but weird solution. I favor whatever solution is the biggest boot up the ass of the Treason Party.
SFAW
Since it’s Wednesday AM, I’m in a “wouldn’t it be nice if … (even though it wouldn’t/couldn’t happen)” mood.
Specifically, I’m thinking how it would be nice if one of the President’s able aides found a section of the US Code, through which the President could sit Qevin down and say “There’s a not-very-well-known law on the books which makes it a crime to threaten the USA in the manner you and your MAGA terrists have done. Toward that end, you and your insane MAGAt posse have 24 hours to raise the debt limit, or the DHS SWAT-equivalent will be paying you all a visit. Think I’m joking? FAFO, you traitorous fuck.”
It’s unfortunate that the electorate has such a high percentage of morons. Were there not, we wouldn’t be in this situation in the first place.
lowtechcyclist
@azlib:
There’s a big difference between a government shutdown (2013) and a refusal to raise the debt ceiling. A shutdown is a royal PITA, but it’s not going to bring down the economy.
Baud
@azlib:
The conventional wisdom is always that Dems cave, not matter how many times they don’t.
Baud
@lowtechcyclist:
Congress raised the debt ceiling several times under Obama after 2011.
Baud
The 2011 mistake was based on the belief that the GOP would care about the defense cuts that were in the sequester more than they actually did.
Kay
@OzarkHillbilly:
Christoper Rufo designed Ron DeSantis’ state and now national policy platform. I would just like that noted. The same Christoper Rufo that the NYTimes and the anti cancel culture Substack club told us had his finger on the pulse of the nation.
The DeSantis campaign is the War On Woke campaign. Not winning! Losing! Just like it lost in MI, WI and PA last cycle.
BlueGuitarist
@SFAW:
Still Tuesday for me.
Baud
Anyway, the GOP won’t raise the debt ceiling because destroying something is one way fascists demonstrate they have dominion over it.
Soprano2
@Kay: I wonder if his defense will be some variation of “the ghostwriter did it, I didn’t write that stuff”.
SFAW
@Baud:
I hate it when you’re right like that.
Baud
How DeSantis won Florida.
Ohio Mom
@Another Scott: That’s pretty much what I believe *intellectually,* that there will lots of drama until the last minute (admittedly, my version is not as fleshed out as yours).
Because that’s what has always happened in the past, and the alternative, default, which is what I expect *emotionally,* is too scary to think about for long.
Is Biden very stubborn, yes. I usually attribute his steadfastness to deep spirituality and religious belief, neither which I have.
CaseyL
I think the GOP truly wants to install itself as a permanent authoritarian (if not totalitarian) government.
If they crash the US economy, they figure their chances of doing so are pretty good.
If they crash the global economy as well, that helps their Patron Saint Putin.
I think it’s that simple.
Soprano2
@Kay: Well, unfortunately it’s winning in Missouri. The state attorney general is trying to implement a state policy on transgender care for both minors and adults that’s basically saying “y’all have a mental illness, if you would just get enough counseling and therapy you’d realize that and then you wouldn’t need treatment for gender dysphoria”. For now the Missouri court has put the policy on hold; I don’t know how the state court will ultimately rule, but the R’s already tried unsuccessfully to get the lawsuit transferred to federal court so they could go judge shopping. It’s gross and disgusting, they’re openly trying to force all transgender people to leave the state.
SFAW
@BlueGuitarist:
Me too, but I’m trying to be optimistic. Or maybe I’m just addled.
[Cue NotMax or Ozark with “Por que no los dos?]
SFAW
@Baud:
I think it was the “internet” part which was the clue.
ETA: In other words, Melon Husk scams well enough in the “bricks-and-mortar” world.
Steeplejack
@Suzanne:
Lightfoot had a deep catalogue before he “made it” with his big hits in the ’70s. Many gems in his early stuff. “Oh, Linda.” Super minimal.
cain
@Baud:
Why would you give money to Elon Musk to begin with? I’m trying to understand what the original motivation was?
ETA – yes, give money to Elon musk so that he can give you 6 million dollars in return. That makes so much logical sense. 🙄 Everytime you have to give money to get a lot of money back with no legal agreement that’s when you need to stop and think.. “what?”
Kay
@Baud:
Ooof. Great management there. Good job. I love the charter industry’s laissez-faire approach to public funds. They don’t have any controls because…innovation. Two signatures required on a check would stifle ingenuity, or something. Cut the red tape…. and also standard accounting controls!
OzarkHillbilly
@SFAW:
Took the words right off of my keyboard.
Kay
@cain:
They told her she would get 6 million back for the school. She believes in magic.
NotMax
FYI.
House calendar (.pdf file).
SFAW
@OzarkHillbilly:
Sorry for the keyboard vandalism. Sorta like all of Clinton’s people removing the “W” from all the WH keyboards, only worse?
[For the pedants: yes, I know that story was BS.]
Kay
@Soprano2:
It is working in Missouri, and also (to a lesser extent) in Ohio but we’re red states. DeSantis has to win some Trump lost.
cain
@Kay: I love all the covering “he must have been really convincing” – more like – you really wanted that money and was blind. Glad she resigned because actions should have consequences.
OzarkHillbilly
@cain: I was wondering the same and all I could come up with was teaching a class on, “How to get the govt to give you billions of dollars for rockets that blow up and destroy coastal ecosystems.”
BlueGuitarist
@SFAW:
pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the will
Betty
I understand how irresponsible the House Republicans are, but they still depend on big money guys who cannot be happy about these threats. Let’s hope their greed is enough to get the country through this.
SFAW
@NotMax:
30 four-day weeks per year? For $174K salary?
Such a deal.
Kay
@cain:
In my experience as a lawyer, every single person who gets scammed gets scammed by a genuis trickster. They have to exaggerate the brilliance of the scammer in order to protect their own ego. They are so smart only a super smart person could trick them.
OzarkHillbilly
It is??? Damn, all these years I’ve been telling the GDs a lie…. I mean, a fairy tale. Yeah, that’s what I meant to say.
SFAW
@Betty:
In theory, you have a good point.
In practice, so many of them are in districts with a high percentage of Common-Clay-of-the-New-West voters, that they don’t care quite as much as you would think.
SFAW
@OzarkHillbilly:
You’ll note that I directed that comment to pedants, so you’re OK.
Now, if you start with literally/figuratively, clip/magazine arguments, I might revise my opinion.
Geminid
@Kay: I saw many reports, even headlines that Biden was “defiant” about the Afghanistan withdrawal. I got a sense that the journalists thought this defiance might be a bad thing. After all, he was defying journalists. But many people consider that a good thing.
Math Guy
I think we will default and, as bad as that will be for the most vulnerable, it may be better in the long wrong. Our democracy is too close to a tipping point to give the republicans another “win” in the form of a concession to their hostage taking.
Steeplejack
@Betty Cracker:
Anne Laurie already linked to it Sunday night, but Catherine Rampell has an excellent piece in the Post that details what a fiasco the 2011 debt ceiling “negotiations” (and subsequent developments) were. Well worth reading (again?) for useful context. (Gift link.)
Betty
@SFAW: Just trying to keep hope alive!
scav
oooo, a smart well-groomed lady! knows all the words.
Steeplejack
@Bill K:
Stephanie Ruhle (MSNBC) is very good on this point. Every time her panel discusses debt ceiling “negotiations,” she points out that it’s really like negotiating on whether to pay the Amex bill for the charges you ran up last month.
SFAW
@Math Guy:
I understand your point, but the electorate being what it is, and the MSM being steadfast practitioners of Murc’s Law, I am less optimistic about a default eventually being a net-positive.
I am reminded of St. Ralph the Pure’s post-2000 rationalization (presumably to assuage his own feelings of guilt, although I doubt he ever felt guilty about it) that George W. Bush would make things so bad, there would be a generation of liberal government/policies in response. Which I guess was true, if “generation” == two-to-four years.
different-church-lady
I’m exhausted from work, disgusted with nearly everything in our society, and terrified of what happens when I don’t have the funds to retire but also too old to hold a job. So I’m in a very “fuck it, burn it all down” mood. Someone murdering me during the food riots seems like a blessing at this point.
Baud
@SFAW:
MAGA districts are still controlled by Republican car salesmen and real estate agents. I don’t think they will like the debt default.
Paul in KY
@Suzanne: Pull over as far as you can!
different-church-lady
@Baud:
They won’t like it, but they’ll continue to vote and behave in ways that enable it.
Elizabelle
@Steeplejack: Your link leads to the WaPost website, period.
Baud
@different-church-lady:
They won’t stop voting GOP but that’s who puts pressure on MAGA Congress critters to cave.
rikyrah
@OzarkHillbilly:
When my sister first told me of the pileup, my question was WHY?
There were no winter storms.
Only when I heard about the dust storm, I understood.
How terrifying.
Betty Cracker
@Kay: Harvard should be ashamed of their law school graduate Ron DeSantis. Not only did he admit abusing office to punish WDW in his dumb book (which has probably been read by fewer people than read Meghan McCain’s whiny-ass book), he said it on Fox News repeatedly. I mean, just roll the tape, Disney lawyers! It’s all right there.
Baud
The whole “we lose every fight” thing is kind of irritating.
Math Guy
McCarthy has no control over his caucus. Several members of his caucus are eager to see default. I suppose he could put a clean bill on the floor and hope that a handful of republicans vote with the Dems to raise the debt ceiling, but how likely is that?
Steeplejack
@Elizabelle:
Weird. It worked for me. Here’s the expanded link.
different-church-lady
@Baud: It’s like being a Red Sox fan who refuses to believe 2004 ever happened.
Kay
@Geminid:
I thought it was good he stuck. It would be bad if he made such a big decision and then reversed because Jake Tapper thought it was a bad decision.
I trust Biden on foreign policy. I think he’s both experienced and quite skilled in that area. Jake Tapper, OTOH, who did more than any other media figure to feed the Benghazi/Clinton hysteria, has not earned my trust. It wasn’t a hard call for me. No good options- either take the road the media are lobbying for and stay or trust Biden and get out. Easy.
Baud
@Math Guy:
If it’s on the floor, it passes easily.
Baud
@different-church-lady:
Also irritating.
different-church-lady
@Math Guy:
Utterly unlikely, because McCarthy is just as interested in fucking over dems to spite his face as anyone else in his caucus.
Elizabelle
@Steeplejack: Thank you. That works. Will give it a read.
Math Guy
@Baud: Do you think McCarthy will bring it to the floor? I think it is too late for a discharge petition.
The Thin Black Duke
@Baud: Marginalized groups understand that societal changes are incremental. MLK knew he wouldn’t live long enough to see the promised land. Unfortunately, some white folks on “our” side are deluded enough to believe that if transformative changes don’t happen overnight it’s a failure. It’s adolescent behavior, and I don’t have the patience for it anymore.
Another Scott
@Math Guy: I think it’s safe to assume that there won’t be a “clean” bill, because that’s too big a defeat for the GQP. So there will be some face-saving combination to allow enough face-saving for enough of the majority party to vote for it.
It’s the same as always.
Democracy is messy. We’re not going to crush our enemies beneath our feet and hear the wailing of Empty Green. That’s not how the real world works in closely divided government.
Biden will stand firm on the Default Ceiling, but will compromise more than we want on the budget. That’s the way things work.
We’ll see!
Eyes on the prizes.
Cheers,
Scott.
Geminid
@Math Guy: It seems to me that in the case of the US government, a default would be more of a process than an event. This time next year people may be debating whether we defaulted a little, a lot, or not at all.
That’s not to say next month won’t be a tense time with, at best, short term economic stress.
Baud
@Math Guy:
He’ll do it eventually. Either before or after default.
Sure Lurkalot
@Baud: The wealthy people I worked for loved recessions. Reduced revenue was nothing compared to buying distressed assets for pennies on the dollar.
different-church-lady
@Geminid:
Surprised we haven’t already seen a bunch of “Default will be good!” op-eds out of the FYNYTs yet.
rikyrah
Damn straight. no negotiating with domestic terrorists.
Baud
@Sure Lurkalot:
Most wealthy people do not like recessions.
cain
Literally that was what was said in the article or at least implied. “I’m really smart – they really got me!”
rikyrah
@Kay:
One of the benefits of age is wisdom, if you allow it.
Willing to learn from admitted mistakes.
Math Guy
@Geminid: I agree – it won’t be an across-the-board default: some debts will be serviced in full, others shorted. So, the discussion may be over those choices with the republicans criticizing Biden no matter what he chooses to prioritize.
BlueGuitarist
@Suzanne:
Juicers have mentioned some great Gordon Lightfoot songs, but I haven’t seen anyone mention his version of Me & Bobby McGee.
The studio version from the “If You Could Read My Mind” album adds the sound of the windshield wipers slapping time but also has a momentarily distracting mispronunciation of Salinas; neither in the BBC live version. on both, and elsewhere, I love the sound of his guitar, plus Ry Cooder or Red Shea lead acoustic guitar, plus bass; sounds like early morning
cain
@Math Guy:
Absolutely – in fact, we need to be humbled. These stupid tricks are all based on Democrats focused on doing the right thing and it should only go so far.
They should be utterly blamed for the fall of the global economy.
cain
They won’t like it but being GOP is also a social club and their identity so they’ll go down with the ship and be angry the entire time while they become unemployed.
rikyrah
@Kay:
Discovery is going to be hilarious.
mrmoshpotato
@rikyrah:
Treasonous terrorists?
Edmund dantes
@Kay: meh… it might matter at the district court level based on the judge he got, but it won’t matter at the district court level or scotus. They’ve been known to ignore words when it suits them (trump Muslim ban) and not ignore them when it doesn’t (one of the gay bakery cases where some remark by a Arizona state legislature was used to show bad intent of the neutral law).
Elizabelle
@Baud: That story! It is choke on your coffee funny. This woman should end up unemployable, but, Florida. I am going to think of her as Dr. McJee. Her was groomed.
Miss Bianca
@Suzanne: @BlueGuitarist:
My favorite Gordon Lightfoot song: The Way I Feel
rikyrah
@Soprano2:
And, they are doing it, state by state.
On the one side, it’s genocide.
Democrats have no choice, but, to be anti-genocide.
Baud
@cain:
You underestimate how much middle to upper class MAGA cling to their financial status. The only MAGA who are poor are the ones who were always poor.
mrmoshpotato
@OzarkHillbilly: Penisberg!
Geminid
@Math Guy: There will also be economic consequences to the uncertainty. For example, rates for auto loans will jump, as well as for heavier commercial trucks. Mortgage and construction loan rates could spike also. A lot of businesses will feel the pressure.
OverTwistWillie
The klu klux kaucus pummeled Kev, but the press is asking Joe to carry that palooka?
Fuck that noise.
Miss Bianca
@Elizabelle: “I R Very Smart! I R Edumacated! Cuz only Very Smart Edumacated People understand the math reasoning involved in ‘Pay Me $100,000 and Then My Friend Elon Will Pay You $6 Million!'”
rikyrah
Greg Sargent (@ThePlumLineGS) tweeted at 7:31 AM on Tue, May 02, 2023:
Again and again, DeSantis’s stunts keep imploding:
*War on Disney has backfired and Trump is mocking him for it
*Migrant flights were a PR disaster and he hasn’t done another since
*Voter fraud police can’t find fraud and are destroying people’s lives:
https://t.co/vgMZ9FlHa7 https://t.co/BNue5FBY2e
(https://twitter.com/ThePlumLineGS/status/1653376769548845063?t=2DkEJsrmiq6bDde6qasD7w&s=03)
Edmund dantes
@Edmund dantes: appeals court. Damn it. Wrote district twice.
rikyrah
Disney isn’t settling with him.
Of course, this is going to discovery.
Greg Sargent (@ThePlumLineGS) tweeted at 7:21 AM on Tue, May 02, 2023:
DeSantis’ self-own could get even worse. The Disney lawsuit against him may very well go to discovery, says legal expert @lee_kovarsky. He tells me this could reveal still more damning evidence of DeSantis’ weaponization of the state against speech:
https://t.co/vgMZ9FlHa7 https://t.co/wMq25NvVxK
(https://twitter.com/ThePlumLineGS/status/1653374104492187659?t=y0Gjpq0Mom-J4fBgSbLw3w&s=03)
rikyrah
No lie told.
MSNBC (@MSNBC) tweeted at 4:00 AM on Tue, May 02, 2023:
Noah Berlatsky: If you find yourself praising Marianne Williamson or Robert F. Kennedy this election cycle, you aren’t a leftist. You’re a mark. https://t.co/5AuWTzXlBj
(https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/1653323531772477441?t=MSuwBBRaqq_PnNXDJ6mDXw&s=03)
rikyrah
the most Jason of all Jason’s (@the_ason) tweeted at 11:02 PM on Mon, May 01, 2023:
“democrats abandoned the working class” is 100% steeped in racial resentment. Working class whites are upset over democrats dismantling segregation and saw it as a betrayal because up to that point Dems had been their champions since the new deal Era
(https://twitter.com/the_ason/status/1653248644328435712?t=RVhUiuhs3O-wXskTiJCnYw&s=03)
Kay
@cain:
They can be smart. It’s that something powerful overrides their ordinary common sense. It can be (and is most often) greed but it can also be ego – she thought Elon Musk was responding to her entreaties to back her STEM charter school and wanted to tout that connection.
I see this category error all the time. Where “smart” is plugged in as the sum total of human beings. Pompeo went to a service academy so how could he be so bad? He can be so bad because an SAT score isn’t a measure of your overall merit as a human being. He’s “smart” but he fails at everything other than that.
It’s one measure of one thing. You can be a liar and smart, or greedy and smart, or gullible and smart. “Smart” doesn’t mean “great”.
rikyrah
TRUTH
David Darmofal (@david_darmofal) tweeted at 7:01 AM on Tue, May 02, 2023:
I guess we shouldn’t be surprised that some of the same reporters who can’t cover authoritarianism, racism, and the decline of democracy in the United States effectively also can’t cover the debt ceiling effectively. Many in our national press are not up to this moment.
(https://twitter.com/david_darmofal/status/1653369030609125378?t=Ut3cuYx8LreN-BOLYgcx6A&s=03)
rikyrah
No surprise
Debby Williams![]()
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(@dwilliams1210) tweeted at 7:16 AM on Tue, May 02, 2023:
Republican-controlled states target college students’ voting power ahead of high-stakes 2024 elections https://t.co/3lvExkqmFY
(https://twitter.com/dwilliams1210/status/1653372827007942656?t=Ai7Pgpa8vtzqnNeyvVy2gQ&s=03)
Frankensteinbeck
There are issues where the House GOP is not a monolith. This is one of them. More of them think a default would be a stupid disaster than want it to happen.
What they are as a monolith are lazy cowards who won’t do anything unless it’s easy or they’re desperate.
McCarthy is so craven he responds unpredictably to pressures we don’t see because we’re not there. Predictions that he would always suck up to Trump and shiv Ukraine have both proven wrong.
The Democrats are not going to blink.
Those are the factors I see in this situation. Where do they lead? My guess is an absolute last minute clean raise.
Kay
@rikyrah:
I saw a clip of Marianne Williamson where she’s actively lobbying against people participating – wah wah wah, Biden clears the field so no one gets to hear her dumb, fake woo woo because obviously she would win without the boot of the Democratic Party on her neck. So we’ll have those clips when they all lie about it later.
Jeffro
LOVE THIS
Paul in KY
@Kay: Funny how that goes…
Jeffro
Clean bill to lift the debt ceiling + clean votes on every last thing the GOP wants would work.
Clean vote on whether or not to gut the VA by 22%? Sounds good. Etc etc etc. Please proceed, Republicans.
Frankensteinbeck
Added: No matter how this turns out, I don’t see McCarthy getting out of it with his speakership intact. There is no result here that doesn’t seriously piss off a section of his caucus. Somebody is going to call a replacement vote. More than five people will have had it with his bullshit and be unwilling to vote for him again. There is no other serious candidate. None. So… that will be weird.
Jeffro
@Elizabelle: four months of occasionally emailing this dolt = $100k payout? (well, almost)
I am in the wrong line of work! I can write those emails!! LOL
Ken
@Jeffro: Especially as the bill to lift the debt ceiling would sail through the Senate, while the one to gut the VA wouldn’t even be brought up for debate.
Bupalos
Aren’t the R’s just a Manchin and Sinema away from passing that out of the senate and leaving a bill that is essentially default-or-don’t sitting on Biden’s desk?
Jeffro
That makes sense. I wonder if the 5+ Rs who end up voting for the debt ceiling increase will – “temporarily, reluctantly” – agree to support a D speaker?
Nevermind, what am I thinking? They’ll never do that.
Except maybe they’ll have to?
Kay
@rikyrah:
Like all of these woo woo practitioners, she’s an absolute fraud:
She can’t even practice her cult program successfully in her own life, let alone run world government on it.
Another embarassing position for “the Left”. They’re really making massive fools of themselves lately- between backing Putin, embracing and promoting Tucker Carlson and falling for this multimillionaire fraud they’re not really helping The Struggle. Remember when The Left did shit like support labor unions and join civil rights marches? Now they’re just clowns on the internet.
Another Scott
@Math Guy: Treasury has said for years that there’s no process and no facility to prioritize payments. They pay them as they come in.
True? Has anything changed? Dunno. But given the speed at which government IT changes, I wouldn’t count on it.
Cheers,
Scott.
Frankensteinbeck
@Bupalos:
Even McConnell is saying he just wants a clean bill. The GOP is seriously not united on this.
WaterGirl
@Steeplejack: worked for me, too!
Nettoyeur
@Soprano2: The world could have avoided a lot of problems by taking Mein Kampf as a plan.
AxelFoley
@The Thin Black Duke:
This. All this.
lowtechcyclist
@BlueGuitarist:
We were just talking about that song in a thread several days ago, and we had an enjoyable conversation about Gord there.
JPL
@Frankensteinbeck: Shocking that Mitch would kick Kevin to the curb. 😃😃😃
Steeplejack
@BlueGuitarist:
Lightfoot’s version of “Me and Bobby McGee.”
Nettoyeur
@Soprano2: The world could have avoided a lot of problems by taking Mein Kampf as a plan.
@Another Scott: I agree there will be a simple extension for negotiations. In months, a lot could change: Ukraine offensive, verdict in Jean Carroll case, possible recession……..
The Moar You Know
There’s no downside for the GOP with a default.
Geminid
@Jeffro: Another possibility would be a “caretaker Speaker” acceptable to Democratic leadership, who could put critical legislation like a debt ceiling increase on the floor. Retired Republicans Charlie Dent (PA) or Tom Reed (NY) might fit the bill
I could see more than five Republican Reps go for that solution just so they don’t have to caucus with Marjory Taylor Greene and Matt Gaetz anymore.
Jeffro
@Geminid: that’s a great point. And it sounds like something that Hakeem Jeffries or even Biden himself might put out there, quietly, to the “5+”
“Here, let me help you out of this bind, mi amigos. No, no need to credit me or anything…just find some retired, moderate R who’ll help get the important work of the Congress/country done” ;)
Lacuna Synecdoche
Greg Sargent via Kay:
I bet dollars to donuts that DeSantis’s legal team defends against this by arguing that the memoir is a campaign document and can’t reasonably be taken seriously.
Matt McIrvin
@Nettoyeur: Yeah–when people tell you what they are, believe them the first time.
Steeplejack
@Miss Bianca:
That’s a great song. I’m reminding myself of a lot of Lightfoot’s songs that I hadn’t thought of in years.
Soprano2
@Elizabelle: “Hidden Brain” did an episode about a woman who was sucked into a romance scam. They prey on certain kinds of people, and the good ones can be very smooth and good at how they gain your trust. The one “Hidden Brain” highlighted had a scammer who borrowed money from the mark, and then paid it back! That’s when she really got sucked in, even though she had friends who tried to warn her about it. They talked about the psychology of this kind of thing. You can’t assume that someone is dumb because they are taken in by one of these scammers. Most of the time we don’t know it happens, because people are so embarrassed and ashamed that they don’t tell anyone about it.
Betty Cracker
@The Moar You Know: You don’t think there’s a chance that a Repub-led default would lead to them getting (rightly!) blamed for the resulting economic chaos and lose seats in all but the deepest red districts? The situations aren’t exactly analogous, but Repubs essentially “won” the showdown with Obama in 2011, got blamed for the financial fallout, lost the presidential election the next year and lost seats in the House.
Matt McIrvin
@Betty Cracker: Anyway, there was another debt-ceiling showdown in 2013, and the way I remember it, Obama didn’t blink that time and the Republicans backed down.
Lacuna Synecdoche
@The Moar You Know:
Of course there is. The country, by which I mean the majority of voters, is going to blame the GOP.
It happened in every budget standoff going back to the 90’s and it’s going to happen if a default happens too.
Every election cycle, Republicans campaign on being the party of small government. It’s bullshit. I know it, and you know it. But most people in the center believe it – which means that when the country defaults, which creates the epitome of small government (i.e., no functioning gov’t at all), the people in the political middle will look around and go, “Who benefits? Who wants smaller government? It’s their fault.”
A default is going to backfire on the GOP, big-time.
I don’t know why Republicans don’t get that.
Ksmiami
@Sure Lurkalot: why do people keep saying this? . The loss of American credibility and the dollar primacy would be devastating to all. There are a lot of rich people that don’t want to see America collapse… it isn’t good for anyone.
Sean
@Frankensteinbeck:
This to me is the death knell of a last-minute clean bill. I don’t even think he could push a clean debt limit CR to kick the can down the road for 2 months and get the far-right votes. If he tried, they’d likely pull the trigger and challenge his speakership, let alone if he tried a clean raise thru 2024. So, I don’t know what he does, but I don’t think it will be any version of a clean bill. He’d have to strike a deal with dems for a clean vote and the promise of their votes when his speakership is challenged, and I think we all understand he could never and would never go there.
Bill Arnold
@lowtechcyclist:
Yup. A global economic collapse would seriously cut down greenhouse gas emissions. If sustained (this could be arranged), it would save hundreds of millions of human lives in the fullness of time and blunt the mass extinction we’re heading into by at least 10s of thousands of species (hundreds of thousands/a few million). This is part of the calculation for some people.
I wonder if the Republicans realize that they are hard core eco-terrorists. (Not joking.)
There are gentler ways to achieve rapid reductions in greenhouse gas emissions.
UncleEbeneezer
@AxelFoley: I’ll go a step further and say that the people who signal-boost and defend them are just as bad. Very few progressive people that I know, actually refused to vote for Hillary, but 10x as many spent all of 2016 spreading “yeah but don’t they have a point?” bullshit all over social media. It’s not just the tiny % of Purity Ponies who actively bail on the Dem Coalition, but also their constant defenders/apologists, that I have zero patience for, nowadays. It’s not helpful and only hurts our turnout by handing Putin and other online rat-fuckers a bunch of ammunition for their disinformation campaigns to destroy Democracy.
Chief Oshkosh
@Baud:
Ah yes, the sequester. Overall made life worse for everyone, but I recall many “conservative” acquaintances and family members whining when THEIR ox got gored.
“Obama was only supposed to cut the unimportant things!”
So, you force a Democratic President to make cuts across the board and you think that he’ll somehow spend time and effort identifying your special “needs” and that he’ll somehow spare them.
It was another example of JUST HOW FUCKING STUPID THESE PEOPLE ARE.
And yes, I reminded them of this at every opportunity.
lowtechcyclist
@Frankensteinbeck:
Who cares if they’re not really a monolith, if they vote and otherwise act like one?
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Frankensteinbeck:
McConnell is not stupid. He can see that Democratic positions have hardened. He only picks fights he know he can win.
Matt McIrvin
@Lacuna Synecdoche: I think the theory here is that when the economy is bad, people blame the President and the President’s party. So if they can force the global economy to just be blown apart, Biden will get the blame and they win. If Biden blinks, that’s also a win.
The thing is, I think Biden is way ahead of them here–he’s already stating the stakes, sounding the alarm and saying it’s a hostage-taking situation.
Sean
@Lacuna Synecdoche:
We have to trust that Americans are going to understand this issue while being bombarded by press and talking heads saying things like “WHy DIdn’T BiDEn jUSt AgrEE to TaLKs!?!?!?!” or “It’s been 34 days and counting since Biden refused an offer to pick up Kevin McCarthy’s groceries, why does he hate America?”
This is a convoluted and ridiculous issue that is hard to explain to average people who may not really tune in to the news at large. When they do, they’re going to get some mix on how it’s Biden’s fault for not bailing out republicans from their hostage taking. I’m not sure I believe the blame will land on the GOP as solidly as we might hope it does.
BlueGuitarist
Love all y’all
narya
Even the OBros are saying, hey, we learned our lesson in 2011. The other thing I see–and want to see more of–is “Democrats upped the debt limit three times under TFG, while he added a gazillion dollars to the debt.” Simple, to the point, easily understandable. I don’t know how this going to end, but I do think Joe and the Dems learned from 2011.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@Baud: Well, have supporters with standards whose worldview is comforted by focusing on what wasn’t achieved. As opposed to our opposition who are always right, always somehow won, et c.
libarbarian
Chaos is a Ladder.
I suck and can no longer embed images :(
Sure Lurkalot
@Ksmiami:
There are a lot of rich Americans who don’t give a shit about this country or its denizens who suffer from economic downturns. They have their drop dead money, can go and live anywhere they want.
Many fund the Republican Party and if a default is so distasteful to them, how did it get this far? It seems to me they are waiting to see if Biden blinks (I hope not).
We shall soon see how they get sorted out.
Citizen Alan
@cain: Resigned? One would think diverting government funds to a scam artist in hopes of making a profit off of it would lead to her being in jail!
Frankensteinbeck
@lowtechcyclist:
They don’t. Not on everything. Do you see a huge House press to cut Ukraine’s funding or pass a national abortion ban? Do you see the Senate GOP signing onto the crazies’ default plan? There were crossovers on Democratic bills while Nancy was speaker. It took McCarthy 15 tries to get the Speaker position and he had no competition. That’s definitely not acting like a monolith. Right now you have 200+ GOP House members telling McCarthy he’d better have a plan because they really, really don’t want to be left holding the bag themselves. Shit, he barely was able to pass a toilet paper bill they all knew was going nowhere so voting for it was harmless.
EDIT – A black man is no longer president. While the majority of the GOP will never forgive that it happened and will be frothing burn-it-all-down insane forever, a significant minority feel that at least it’s possible to make common ground on some things some of the time maybe.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
Sub harmless for pointless and you may be closer to their concerns.
rikyrah
yep
Kenny BooYah!![]()
(@KwikWarren) tweeted at 3:16 PM on Mon, May 01, 2023:
In case you’re wondering why the news media is so enamored of Shitler&cant let him go: He’s a one-man train-wreck, guaranteed to give them the drama, controversy&brazenness guaranteed to boost ratings, buzz&profits. Remember what former CBS Chairman Les Moonves said… https://t.co/6Wtx39GxiC
(https://twitter.com/KwikWarren/status/1653131369562644484?t=DH7hyD5CMflyMlRQBEWIRA&s=03)
JPL
Without Feinstein does the Senate have the votes for an up or down vote? Joe seems likely to vote no and who knows what way the wind blows with Sinema
Betty Cracker
@Sure Lurkalot: An old friend once described people with that mindset as essentially stateless folks who control “sovereign piles of cash.” There’s zero civic-mindedness; they evaluate countries as normal people might consider theme parks for a vacation, i.e., the parks’ merit is determined solely by how well they cater to the sovereign piles of cash owners’ personal needs. I think there’s some truth to that, and to the corollary that every billionaire is a policy failure.
gene108
@Baud:
Those two groups don’t usually produce deep thinkers, who worry about systemic problems, like the entire post-WW2 monetary system has been built around the U.S. paying its debts.
Defaulting won’t just hurt the U.S. economy, but will lead to a global recession as banking and finance scramble to adjust to the new reality.
This will also get the rest of the world to look to other nations to anchor a new global monetary system.
SFAW
@Baud:
There are lots of things they don’t/won’t like. Until they can get the electorate to vote accordingly, their likes/dislikes plus a buck or two will get them a ride on the (metaphorical/figurative) subway.
Citizen Alan
@Jeffro: How’s this for wild prognostication? Are there at least 5 republicans in Biden districts who would consider switching parties and joining the blue dog Caucus in exchange for some kind of assurances that they would not draw a primary opponent in 2024?
lowtechcyclist
@Frankensteinbeck:
Sure, there were safe votes when Nancy was Speaker, because if it was on the floor, it was because she had the votes.
Do I see the Senate GOP signing on to the crazies’ default plan? No, but they’re standing aside and not doing a thing to stop the crazies. Close enough for government work.
Do I see a huge House press to cut Ukraine’s funding? No, I don’t, because most of them don’t care one way or the other about Ukraine unless it provides an avenue to own the libs. So yeah, they aren’t a monolith on things they don’t give a shit about.
They’re a monolith in not trying to pass one.
Citizen Alan
@Citizen Alan: Oh, never mind. I see now that she was just an idiot who thought she could get more money for the school. I thought she had embezzled it for personal benefit.
Jeffro
@Citizen Alan: I don’t know, but I think we’re close to finding out, right?
evodevo
@Chief Oshkosh: I’m listening to Ms. Greenspan on MSNBC right now doing the both sides dance…
Matt McIrvin
@evodevo: “The other side wants to shoot your dog, your side doesn’t want to shoot your dog, why can’t you reach some kind of compromise?”
Miss Bianca
@Matt McIrvin: “How about just wounding the dog rather than killing it, could you just settle for that?”
Matt McIrvin
@Betty Cracker: I think some very rich people are actually happier in an economic depression–sure, they lose a lot of money on paper, but their holdings go way further to buy subservience from people. When times are good it’s “no one wants to work” and “you can’t get good help any more”.
I recall that op-ed Sam found several months ago from a call-center CEO who was practically drooling at the prospect of a new recession knocking some sense into entitled millennials and GenZers.
Ruckus
Josh Marshall misunderstands Joe Biden. He’s not alone.
He was in the Senate for 37 yrs. A staunch democrat in a system that requires one to be an operative on one side or another and to operate as a part of the whole. Now he is president and in that position he has to be, not just a member but the leader. And he seems to me to be doing a very good job at it, because he’s spent basically his adult life learning, watching how the job is and isn’t done properly. That is a gift, to be able to learn to work the job at hand and to learn to move up the ladder to do the next job reasonably. I used to train apprentices to work in a field that takes time and hands on experience to get all the finer points. What Joe Biden has done is like one of those apprentices who learns every day, from the experiences. And as always, it can be difficult to see exactly how that learning progresses as time goes on. Graduation day is not a set time for anyone in this type of learning atmosphere. It depends on how well they learn, how they build upon each step in the process and one day the good ones arrive at the top of their field. In this case that’s Joe Biden. He does a kick ass job because he’s been through the entire process and learned well along the way. He’s comfortable in a job that likely has a high comfort margin to reach, because not everyone can get there. And he has.
Jeffro
In today’s NYT, Jamelle Bouie sounds like one of our conversations about how RWNJ candidates come across to normies:
The ‘Woke Mind Virus’ is Eating Republicans’ Brains
Truth. Bouie goes on to note that 60% of Americans are against book banning, and that Biden’s 1st TV ad specifically noted conservative book bans “as a threat to freedom and American democracy.”
Bouie:
And so on, with DeSantis vs Disney, the House GOP’s proposed cuts to government, etc.
1,110%!
gene108
@Matt McIrvin:
2013 was a government shutdown because the Republican House couldn’t agree on a budget.
Baud
@gene108:
Again, the Republicans passed clean debt ceiling increases several times after 2011 while Obama was president.
Kay
@Ksmiami:
I tend to agree. We saw it with Trump and his supporters denying the results of the election. The money people thought it was fun for awhile but then they put the word out that it was over, and it was over.
Also- they had gotten their tax cuts. They didn’t need anything else from Trump.
Geminid
@Citizen Alan: I think the more likely defectors would be Republicans like Don Bacon (NE), who plan to retire anyway.
I would add in Valadeo and Newhouse. They both survived impeaching Trump. They are in jungle primary states, which to some extent insulates them from blowback.
I do not think this is a likely prospect, but it’s possible that a handful of Republicans will meet in an Independent Republican Caucus until January, 2025. They can swap notes on job hunting, and talk about how glad they are to no longer sit with Gaetz, Greene, Boebert, Rosendale and the rest of those clods.
J R in WV
@Bill K:
Actually, this “rule” is a law that directly opposes the requirement of the 14th amendment that all debts of the nation be faithfully paid on time in full.
Which is how President Biden can authorize payments to make the full faith and credit of the united States whole and intact — he is required to do so by the Constitution, which overrules the debt limit legislation completely.
rikyrah
@Ruckus:
I absolutely love this take on President Biden.
Thank you.
Betty Cracker
@Ruckus: Maybe you misunderstand Marshall. His point is that Biden learned from his experience as a senator and VP and is approaching this from those lessons — it’s the pundits who are misunderstanding that and expecting Senator or VP Biden.
trollhattan
In America, it’s important to distinguish between spree-killer and serial killer.
Spree killer:
Serial killer:
Class, dismissed.
Ruckus
@SFAW:
Seems to me that there are a lot of people in congress that being around for 120 days a year would be a LOT of work for any rational human.
UncleEbeneezer
@Jeffro: I’m reading an excellent book titled Mothers Of Conservatism that is all about the role that (white) women played in the rise of modern conservatism. This freak-out over Woke-ism is nothing new. In the 50’s it just had different framing/focus. Back then it was Progressive Education, Multiculturalism, and a fear of UNESCO-sponsored curricula that would erode Nationalism and spread Communism. But what parents were pants-shitting scared about was:
• History that tells the truth about White Supremacy (Slavery, Tha Klan, Manzanar etc.)
• Racial Integration
• Emphasis on Empathy/Cooperation
• Respect for other cultures
• Erosion of traditional religious and gender norms
• Any criticism of Capitalism
All the same shit, just different flavors, as what we are seeing nowadays. There were even OpEds of women complaining that schools would “brainwash” their children, which everyone knows, is the parents’ job/right! All of which is to say the Woke-mind Virus has been around for 75-100 years.
J R in WV
@Kay:
Oh, nos — the RWNJs won’t be there clogging up the lines for the best rides. What a boost for the Mouse and his minions ~!!!~
What a boost for all the ghey leaders who will more comfortable w/o the RWNJs in the ride next to them!!
. . ;~)
Kay
I’m getting involved in an IBEW (local) charity project. Helping them set it up- for which I will be paid, just so it’s not like I’m pretending to volunteer :)
A tool library. I had never heard of them before. The local wants to open one in Toledo. Someone else tried to open one in Toledo in 2020 but it ended up as tiny homes for low income buyers – an equally neat idea, but not a tool library.
Here’s Detroit’s
and Chicago’s
Baud
@Kay:
To each according to their needs!
Kay
@J R in WV:
Disney’s First Official Pride Event Sells Out
More popular than Ron DeSantis, that’s for sure
Jeffro
@UncleEbeneezer: hmm that looks like a good one!
Yes, the religious/racist/rich persons’ Right is always shifting and trying to keep a hold on power. Meanwhile, America keeps making progress in fits and starts, despite their best efforts.
Kay
@Baud:
Right? This is so up my alley. Not enough to do free legal work for Local 8, which is flush as far as I can tell, but still.
Baud
@Kay:
Thanks, Biden.
Jeffro
@Kay: we have one of those here in Charlottesville! It started up in 2021. It’s a great concept.
Ruckus
@Betty Cracker:
It is quite possible that I misunderstood. My reading led me to the conclusion I posted but I believe that overall the premise of my comment is correct, some jobs can not be learned any other way but on the job experience. Some, maybe a lot of jobs, require an advanced education to be able to understand all the nuances of the job. But still in most jobs the deep learning is done, on the job. Politics is one job that requires OTJ training, working through the process, far more than any school could teach. Because it is a fluid job and deals with humans, some of whom are barely qualified as such.
Geminid
@Kay: The DC area IBEW does well enough to sponsor the local news: “WTOP News, sponsored by IBEW Local 125- where contractors come to grow.”
Ksmiami
@Kay: present company included… there are more of us than people realize and crashing the system and the chaos that will ensue really really ain’t smart.
Kay
@Jeffro:
I love the idea. My daughter lives in a Lefty college town in NY and they have a toy library, which I also love.
I manage estates and there really is no need for anyone to make another ordinary “home inprovement and repair” tool ever again- just the Baby Boomers estates have all the home improvement tools the universe could ever need. We just need to redistribute existing tools :)
They will get more donations of tools than they can possibly use. I told them their big job will be refusing duplicates or broken junk- there’s a type of person who uses donations as a dumpster.
Kay
@Geminid:
They sponsored the tiny homes/low income buyer project too. Along with other construction trade unions and Lowes. Lowes gave 200k. They’re nice- not super small. The size of a one bedroom apartment. I think they need 2 bedrooms too though- for kids.
J R in WV
@The Moar You Know:
I beg to differ — they could lose the whole Veteran unit of voters whet first time those folx can’t get a presciption filled, or have any kind of health emergency — but the VA is CLOSED by Kevin MkSqueeker.
For just one example of things they will lose — how about parents unable to feed their kids when school lunches stop?
CAinCA
@Kay: The Sacramento Public Library offers this also: Library of Things. You can also borrow State Park day passes.
evodevo
@Matt McIrvin: Eggzackly..
UncleEbeneezer
@Jeffro: It’s excellent. I had no idea about the concerted effort to delegitimize Psychiatry/Psychology. Which makes sense, given how many Conservatives I’ve known who hate those fields. Anyways, You can listen to a good, hourlong interview of the author about it here.
Betty Cracker
@Ruckus: Yep, I don’t disagree with anything you said about Biden.
Steve in the ATL
@Geminid: IBEW has a marketing budget for each local to spend. That’s why you see their billboards and hear their radio ads and see their name on the wall at ballparks. Savvy move.
J R in WV
@Kay:
Here in Charleston WV there was a huge fundraising effort to replace our main Kanawha County Public Library. That failed somewhat, and was replaced by a tear up and rebuild a newer larger modern library — including a tool library with instructions in how to use whichever dangerous power tool you might need.
So here in Blood Red West Virginia progressive ideas can succeed.
They also have a computer lab for teens, with 3D printers to experiment with building things no one ever thought of before. We visit the library to sit in a quiet learning environment while in town on errands. It is really sweet, has a bridge from the parking deck across the street also too.
Betsy
@Kay:
@Betty Cracker:
Strength through age. Joe Biden has seen. It. All.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
Well, when you’ve been around since the dawn of time…
My very scientific calculation puts that somewhere around 1983, as far as I can tell.
Steeplejack
@Ruckus:
Your comments about Biden were spot on. But I don’t think Josh Marshall misunderstands him—at least not from that piece.
Citizen Alan
@J R in WV: Perhaps the weirdest thing I recall from my brief time as a high school band director was when the band parents vetoed the semi annual trip to Disney world. Because they supported “The Gays.” So instead, we took the kids to busch gardens! Because an amusement park built around a literal brewery is so much more in keeping with family values.
kindness
Far too many Republicans want to crash the economy. In their way of thinking, they can blame Democrats and run against them using it next year. And sadly too many of the MSM (NY Times, etc) will go along with this meme.
I’m figuring Biden won’t negotiate. At the last minute he’ll pull a 14th Amendment edict or $1T coin out and throw it down. Republicans will go apocalyptic and sue. The media and the Supreme Court will back Republicans. That’s when Uncle Joe needs to throw down the Fuck You Renegade Supreme Court. You Are Openly Corrupt. Shit is going to be hitting every fan, no way around it.
Citizen Alan
@UncleEbeneezer:
What? Sociopaths resent doctors telling them that their entire worldview is wrong? Absurd!
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
First read this as “donors” and said to myself, “well they have agency.”
But doctors, lawyers, really any educated professionals who aren’t distorting their profession to cater to right wingers risk being in winger crosshairs.
Geminid
@Steve in the ATL: What strikes me about the IBEW ads is how they market themselves to contractors as an experienced, efficient workforce. The Steam Fittters local does the same, for HVAC and fire-sprinkler projects.
These ads tend to generate good public relations in general, I think, as do the ads run to recruit apprentices.
Kay
@J R in WV:
Long long ago, when I was single and living in North Carolina, a public library there let you borrow artwork for your walls. I never took out a painting or print but I never forgot it.
Part of the idea with this one is that lower income homeowners (actually still a thing in Toledo- you can be lower income and own) will be able to renovate/improve without spending a lot. The Detroit membership is 25- the Chicago is 100. 25 seems too low to me- they need to bring the tool back.
Manyakitty
@different-church-lady: hard same.
MC
If the default happens, I think that’s probably it for me. I’ve had enough of this “life”
Manyakitty
@Betty Cracker: gotta say, the last half a dozen years or so have really taken the bloom off the Harvard rose. “Standards? We don’t need no stinking standards!”
Kay
@Geminid:
Unions are a perfect fit for skilled trades and construction trades because of the nature of the work- they complete a job and move on, which allows the employer to add or subtract workers easily – the employer doesn’t have to worry about health insurance or retirement either or all the costs associated with finding qualified people They just pull an electrician or a plumber off the shelf. Put an order in for 200 in Buffalo or wherever and the IBEW provides.
We have a company here who make ingredients for candy. They’re unionized (Teamsters) and the owner likes it that way because the union handles all the hourly employee issues so he doesn’t have to. But plants like that one are not as perfect a fit as construction trades.
kindness
@Geminid: My grandfather, uncle & father were IBEW members. Well up until my dad went into the management. The IBEW he belonged to used to donate to Republicans almost exclusively. Of course, those were north east/New England Republicans back in the 70’s who were moderates. They’d be Democrats in this day and age. The Republican party is no longer on that bandwidth, even in the northeast & I have no idea who the IBEW donates to anymore.
EarthWindFire
@Baud: The GOP cared about the defense cuts enough to blame Dems for them.
Ksmiami
@kindness: we are already in a Constitutional Crisis- may as well fight
different-church-lady
@OverTwistWillie: I would pay for your Substack if it consisted of nothing but statements like this one.
different-church-lady
@Manyakitty: Thanks, and condolences. Lately it seems like no matter how weird things in my head seem, I find out I’m not the only one.
different-church-lady
@UncleEbeneezer:
Orwellian lessons over and over again: create so much doubt about the very possibility of concrete facts and truths. Do that enough and everyone has to just accept whatever you say. It’s a power/dominance thing. Their motto should be just, “What the fuck do you know about it, chump?”
UncleEbeneezer
@Jeffro: The only reason I sometimes hesitate to say that Conservatives care about the “rich” is because in this world, that equates (more or less) with white/and pref. male. Anyone who knows Conservatives, knows damn well that if favoring “the rich” meant disproportionately favoring Black/Brown People, Women, Immigrants, LGBTQ people etc. Conservatives would abandon Capitalism in a fucking heartbeat! This is one of the many reasons Class Not Race arguments are so dumb. In America in this Universe, Class and Race are directly entwined. You can’t really separate them.
Another Scott
@MC: If you’re seriously that upset about things, please call 988 (if you’re in the US) and talk with someone.
Please.
No matter what happens with the debt ceiling, we’ll get through this.
Hang in there.
Cheers,
Scott.
Comrade Scrutinizer
@Kay: Asheville? The public library here did that back in the late 70s; wife one and I always had some nice prints hanging in our one bedroom apartment.
RaflW
@OzarkHillbilly: Lordy. I drove from K.C., KS to SE Wisconsin yesterday. Intense headwinds KC to DesMoines, and the same or more intense cross+tailwinds through IA and NW Illinois.
I kept my speed down a bit both to save fuel and because there was a lot of weaving and gust-adjusting going on. I didn’t know about the deadly crash elsewhere in IL.
People follow so stupidly close. They seem to have just blotted out the information that they’re going 75-80 mph and being 15 feet from the bumper in front of you is a bad idea.
different-church-lady
@RaflW:
I used to think people were as dumb as rocks. Now I’m pretty sure the rocks have the upper hand.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@RaflW:
That extra car length closer is gonna save me just so much time and there’s no down side…
Chris T.
@BlueGuitarist:
For me it’s almost always Blursday.
patrick II
@Baud:
The Republicans correctly estimated that the defense costs would be restored over time. They were correct.
Anyway
@Kay:
That’s so cool, never heard of that. I’ve seen the tool libraries, kitchen gadget libraries, 3D printers etc .. but lending artwork is a neat idea.
RaflW
@Anyway: I now can’t remember if it was Austin, TX or Madison, WI that had paintings one could borrow from the library. That was c. 1995 when friends discovered it.
different-church-lady
@Anyway:
I borrow the ice cream maker attachment for my stand mixer from the local library on a regular basis. It rocks.
The do also loan out power tools, but I really wonder about the liability-factor on that.
Geminid
A development today in the debt-ceiling fight, reported by New York Times Congressional correspondent Carl Hulse:
The “secret weapon” is a bill California Congressman Mark DeSaulnier introduced in January in anticipation of a debt ceiling impasse. Described as a “Swiss Army Knife” bill, DeSaulnier’s “Breaking the Gridlock Act” contained so many disparate proposals that it was referred to every House Committee, and has been held unnoticed by them past the 30 day requirement for a discharge petition. The idea is to bring it to the floor and then amend it with language acceptable to Democrats and at least 5 Republicans.
DeSaulnier has served on the House Rules Committee but otherwise has a low profile. Leaders felt that would help his bill progress with little notice by Republicans.
Steve in the ATL
@kindness: a couple of years ago I had a group of IBEW leaders in Texas tell me with great earnestness about the Clinton Kill List “You can’t deny that!” Oh, indeed I can, amigos, indeed I can.
Tony G
I guess the logic of the GOP is that if they can destroy the U.S. economy they can prevent Biden from being re-elected. Maybe they’re correct about that.
Tony G
@Steve in the ATL: The IBEW. Damn. My father was a member of the IBEW, decades ago. I hope that isn’t indicative of other labor unions.
Steve in the ATL
@Tony G: I’m sure there are geographic variations but most of these guys are the race, age, and sex of fox viewers and two radio listeners.
Baud
@Steve in the ATL:
I hope you took them to the cleaners.
catclub
@kindness:
There are also large numbers of rich investors who are now betting (in the Credit default security market) on making a killing on a default. Biden should start asking which of Mccarthy’s big money daddies are doing this.
Bokonon
Unfortunately, back in 2011 and afterwards, the GOP got a significant number of Americans to blame Obama for the government shutdowns AND the budget cuts that they themselves forced … because, you know, it happened on his watch, and also OBAMA JUST SUX!
In particular, the sequester-forced cuts to the military budget made a lot of service members deeply angry – but it was at Obama, and the Democrats. The GOP played both sides at once – decrying budget deficits and government spending in general, but at the same viciously going after Obama for his choices in military cuts (which, you know, they were told were malicious and stupid because Obama hated them and wanted them to suffer). And it worked. Several people I knew in the services became deeply and lastingly angry at the Democrats. I still see veterans going after Obama CONSTANTLY on all sorts of different discussion boards and sites for the cuts. NONE of them ever blame the Republicans.
This double game set things up nicely for Donald Trump.
Lacuna Synecdoche
@Matt McIrvin:
And generally that’s true. But it hasn’t happened as the result of a budget or debt standoff in over, at least, 40 years.
Lacuna Synecdoche
P.S. By which I mean that Republicans have always gotten the blame in the past since Clinton’s budget standoff in 1995. The only time the President’s party got the blame is when a Republican president, i.e. Trump, engineered a standoff.