Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Usually wrong but never in doubt

Motto for the House: Flip 5 and lose none.

Despite his magical powers, I don’t think Trump is thinking this through, to be honest.

American History and Black History Cannot Be Separated

Our job is not to persuade republicans but to defeat them.

I’m pretty sure there’s only one Jack Smith.

He really is that stupid.

Red lights blinking on democracy’s dashboard

They think we are photo bombing their nice little lives.

I’ve spoken to my cat about this, but it doesn’t seem to do any good.

This year has been the longest three days of putin’s life.

Happy indictment week to all who celebrate!

Republican obstruction dressed up as bipartisanship. Again.

No one could have predicted…

Not all heroes wear capes.

Spilling the end game before they can coat it in frankl luntz-approved dogwhistles.

The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.

The revolution will be supervised.

A thin legal pretext to veneer over their personal religious and political desires

Insiders who complain to politico: please report to the white house office of shut the fuck up.

Ah, the different things are different argument.

“Can i answer the question? No you can not!”

Not so fun when the rabbit gets the gun, is it?

It’s easy to sit in safety and prescribe what other people should be doing.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Oh, Look, Some Morning FAFO

Oh, Look, Some Morning FAFO

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Oh, Look, Some Morning FAFO

And because I must leave you with something fun:

This…is an open thread (and if you don’t hear that in James Earl Jones’ CNN voice, I’ve failed you.

Reader Interactions

250Comments

  1. 1.

    TaMara

    Also this interesting tidbit:

    If Donald isn’t appearing in the E Jean Carroll Case – as Tacopants confirmed this morning – then I wonder what the REAL reason is for cutting his UK trip short.— Mueller, She Wrote (@MuellerSheWrote) May 4, 2023

    Maybe because everyone hates him overseas?

  3. 3.

    Betty Cracker

    Was just reading the coverage in WaPo. Looks like they’ve got their next set of marching orders, though hopefully they’ll be unable to participate because of the metal bars around them:

    For now, the verdict comes as the Proud Boys organization is a shell of what it once was. The Jan. 6 prosecution, along with revelations that Tarrio and others have been federal informants, have divided the group. But membership continues to grow, and followers have found a new cause in protesting drag performances and transgender rights events around the country, sometimes leading to violence.

    “If you are running a group [that] is somewhat effective … I guarantee you that there are [informants] within your group,” Tarrio said after closing arguments Tuesday in a jail call with reporters hosted by Gateway Pundit. He added that upon his release, he thought he might get out of politics and do “some kind of cultural thing.”

    Fuck these hateful pigs. I hope they all rot in jail.

  5. 5.

    Jerzy Russian

    Good news indeed.  How long could they potentially be in the slammer?  The CNN article I skimmed did not say.

  6. 6.

    bbleh

    Presumably someone is already at work on a Dark Brandon meme involving the cat on his head.

  7. 7.

    Scout211

    A few more details.
    Since Twitter now appears dead to those of us without accounts today.

    Defendants Ethan Nordean, Joseph Biggs, Zachary Rehl, Enrique Tarrio and Dominic Pezzola face a range of charges, including three separate conspiracy charges, obstructing the Electoral College vote and tampering with evidence.

    The verdict marks the third time that prosecutors have secured convictions for seditious conspiracy in the Justice Department’s historic prosecution of those who breached the Capitol that day.

     

    The jury was unable to reach a verdict on the seditious conspiracy charge against Pezzola, as well as several other counts against all five defendants. The judge instructed them to continue deliberations.

    . . .

    During the trial, using messages and videos posted by the defendants and other members of the group, prosecutors laid out the case that the Proud Boys, animated by Trump and his election lies after the 2020 defeat, began calling for violence and revolution against the incoming Biden presidency.

    Members of the group saw Biden and others on the left as a threat to the country, according to prosecutors, and messaged one another about the need for “war,” “revolution,” and firing squads for traitors.

    On January 6, 2021, prosecutors said, many of the defendants didn’t attend Trump’s speech that day but instead began a march to the Capitol.

    Proud Boys were at the front lines of the mob on Capitol grounds and were there when the first barriers were breached. Prosecutors have alleged that leaders of the group riled members up and communicated with them, through hand signals, to move ahead.

    After rioters had arrived at Senate wing doors of the Capitol building, Pezzola used a police riot shield he stole during the attack to break open a window, prosecutors said, which rioters entered the Capitol through.

    . . .

    Often teetering into disarray with legal battles, evidentiary disputes, sealed hearings, countless calls for a mistrial and several shouting matches with the judge, the trial concluded Tuesday with the final closing arguments from defense counsel and federal prosecutors.

    During the trial, jurors listened to testimony from multiple officers who defended the Capitol on January 6 as well as FBI agents who investigated the Proud Boys and testimony from several Proud Boys members including two of the defendants, none of whom said there was ever a specific plan to take the Capitol.

    The countless delays, brought on by newly unveiled evidence and informants, a juror who believed they were being followed, and internecine squabbles among attorneys pushed a trial originally estimated to last five to seven weeks to stretch across four months.

  10. 10.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Redshift:

    The PBs getting convicted isn’t fun?  😀

    Oh, it’s fun as hell.  I look forward to celebrating their sentencing and imprisonment.

  11. 11.

    Mike S

    When I saw the story I added a couple of my own Fs. Fascist Fuck sticks Fucked around and Found out.

  12. 12.

    HumboldtBlue

    As someone just pointed out on Twitter, not only did Tarrio get convicted of seditious conspiracy, many of his followers still believe he’s a rat for the Feds. He wins both times!

  13. 13.

    jinchi

    This…is an open thread (and if you don’t hear that in James Earl Jones’ CNN voice, I’ve failed you.

    Now you’ve got me hoping that when Little  Yoda finally speaks, he does it with James Earl Jones voice.

  16. 16.

    Elizabelle

    From the WaPost story:

    But U.S. prosecutors have not produced any “smoking gun” evidence explicitly tracing the actions of any of the Capitol’s violent actors to Trump or his advisers — either from a cooperating witness or an actual written message — although that conceivably could change if anyone still facing charges or pending sentencing “flips” and cooperates.

    Maybe the feds are not yet showing their hand.

  17. 17.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    seems to me like this is a big fucking deal. IANAL but from what I understand prosecutors consider seditious conspiracy a very tough charge to prove. A couple days ago the NBC reporter on this beat (Ryan Reilly, I think?) was saying his sources thought the long deliberations were a bad sign for the prosecutors

  19. 19.

    Elizabelle

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:  And these convictions bring the possibility of some long jail time.  Unlike a lot of the previous trials. Some of the little fish seem to be getting out with time served previous to trial.

    It is a big fucking deal, and I’m sure there is a lot that is being held confidential, as the DOJ circles nearer and nearer the big fish.

  21. 21.

    M31

    sounds like crackers took notes on a fucking seditious conspiracy

    hahahahah enjoy the slammer, motherfuckers

  22. 22.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Given that treason in the US is very restricted by its Constitutional definition, seditious conspiracy is the closest thing in the US Code to what laypeople would consider to be treason.

  23. 23.

    NotMax

    @TaMara

    Belatedly discovered the invitation he received was not to the coronation but to the grand opening of King Charles Total Landscaping.

  24. 24.

    geg6

    I LOVE NO LIMITS WILLOW!
    She sounds very much like my no limits Cleo.

    Proud Boys FAFO makes my day.

  25. 25.

    narya

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Yup. Maddow’s Ultra podcast detailed previous efforts (back in the 1930s), for example, and I’ve been following various legal podcasts. Personally, I think the absolutely most effective piece–other than the mountain of evidence–was the prosecutor’s statement in summary, that if you pull up next to me at a light and rev your engine, and we look at each other and when the light changes we take off, we “conspired” to race, even though we never discussed it or planned it. Also, it’s clear that a lot of communications were deleted, and others happened on, say, zoom and weren’t recorded, leaving the jury to assume that what they saw was only the tip of a very large iceberg. (Even if they can’t actually act on that.)

  26. 26.

    tobie

    @Elizabelle: I agree with you. You don’t show your hand if you don’t have to.

     

    On another note: I have no idea what Willow and Dark Brandon have to do with each other but I guess that’s what google is for.

  28. 28.

    Elizabelle

    @NotMax:  It makes me a little nervous, the prospect of Trump leaving the country.  Worry that he will flee to Russia, or another nation that will not extradite.

    But then:  he has Secret Service protection.  Which is doing the taxpayers another duty by keeping tabs on Felon Number One.

  30. 30.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Elizabelle:

    Maybe the feds are not yet showing their hand.

    I seriously doubt anyone in Trump’s orbit actually told these people to go storm the capitol and stop the count.  Saying that it’s illegal, that now is a time for action, that evil people have cheated and are robbing the crowd and America… none of that stuff counts.  They’re all deniable “I was just running my mouth” stuff.

    I mean, granted, this is Trump’s administration, so it’s just possible someone was so mythic level stupid as to go past the “Will no one rid me of this meddlesome priest?” level to actually giving instructions or approving specific plans.  But I doubt it.

    Now, the bureaucratic attempts at overthrow, like fake electors and pressuring officials to throw out votes, that there will be a trail for.  It’s also a completely different kettle of fish.

  31. 31.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @narya:

    Personally, I think the absolutely most effective piece–other than the mountain of evidence–was the prosecutor’s statement in summary, that if you pull up next to me at a light and rev your engine, and we look at each other and when the light changes we take off, we “conspired” to race, even though we never discussed it or planned it.

    interesting

    here’s Barb McQuade, familiar name and face to MSNBC viewers, talking about the seditious conspiracy case she tried, and lost, against a Michigan militia in 2012

    BARBARA MCQUADE: There’s sort of a gut reaction that comes with a charge of seditious conspiracy that this is something more than just garden-variety type of a crime. This is an attack on our country.[…]

    I think one of the reasons that people sometimes find that that element is lacking is just the utter disbelief that we have, that there can be people who want to overthrow our government or things that they could possibly be successful.

  32. 32.

    Joey Maloney

    That Yoda meme bothers me. Shouldn’t it be “Around, he fucked. Out, he found”?

    I mean, putting a bunch of traitors in prison for decades is fine and all, but on May the Fourth some things are important.

  33. 33.

    Amir Khalid

    Is it too soon for me to be thinking about getting another cat? I’m still coming to terms with losing Agent Scully and with my recent health issues, but I feel a need for a cat in my life.

  34. 34.

    kindness

    The pups and one of the cats will get up on the bed over the course of the night.  I don’t let them sleep on my head or in my face.  They shed so much I’d be inhaling fur with every breath.  I don’t mind them snuggling up to me but I draw the limit at their used fur.  And they are all blowing their winter coats now.

  35. 35.

    AxelFoley

    re: this good news about the Proud Boys

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

    Also, thanks to you all for the birthday wishes yesterday. I spent the day interchangeably napping and playing Destiny 2 and by the time I got back here, you guys were already on two or three new threads. LOL

  39. 39.

    bbleh

    @Elizabelle: @Frankensteinbeck: I agree.  Trump has a lot of problems, but a certain mob-boss type of discretion is something he does very well.  There’s lots of commentary from people around him about his indirection — “would be good if X happened” kind of stuff — and he famously does not use written communication.  And at the level at which this really was planned — Stone, Bannon, et al. — my strong impression is that they are similarly circumspect.

    Tarrio et al. knew what they were expected to do, and they got the knuckleheads to charge right into it.  I think that’s pretty clear to everyone even if they never make charges stick at the top.  (And even if they did, it would never dent the faith of the cultists.)

  41. 41.

    MazeDancer

    Baby Yoda is right.

    Will never get over Afro-Cubano, clearly not caucasian, Enrique Tarrio fronting for white nationalism. Guess, now, he won’t either.

  42. 42.

    Princess

    @Amir Khalid: Get another cat. The thing that helps me most after losing one is the knowledge that there are always more cats out there who need love.

  44. 44.

    The Moar You Know

    @Amir Khalid: no, it’s not.  There’s a lot of cats that need a home out there.  You’d be doing some poor critter a real favor if nothing else.

    I can tell you this:  I still grieve our last dog – she was really my wife’s dog, as I only showed up at the end – ten years after the fact.  I have a lot of regrets and things I wish I’d done differently.  I didn’t really get dogs back then.  I sure do now.  Our current dog is seven.  You can always mourn the departed, but don’t let that stand in the way of helping the living – both Future Cat To Be Determined and of course, you.

  45. 45.

    Elizabelle

    @bbleh:  And yet.  There have been successful prosecutions of mob bosses.

    I am not cynical, and hope that the DOJ will be able to obtain felony convictions against Trump, Stone, Bannon, and all the deplorables in that orbit.  And I hope that young Jared will come in for some trials of his own.  Too much corruption.

  49. 49.

    zhena gogolia

    @Elizabelle:

    Worry that he will flee to Russia, or another nation that will not extradite.

    Worry? That’s what I pray for on my knees each night.

  50. 50.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Frankensteinbeck: I know a lot of people think charges against trump are a slam dunk, but when I imagine an actual trial I think of the word “peacefully” being that hook that only that one juror needs

    He said: “I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.”
    The language was very different from other sections, which borrowed more from combat or war.
    Indeed, Mr Trump’s lawyers have suggested they will highlight his use of the word “peacefully” in the trial

    ETA: That said, I do hope he’s indicted. That’s why I support Garland’s long, careful game.

  53. 53.

    The Moar You Know

    Get two more cats. Now.

    It is the only way to get past the pain. Speaking from experience.

    John Cole said this. He was right.

    @MazeDancer: he and you, both right.  Whenever that day comes that I lose my current pup, I will be out of my mind with grief for a long time.

    But I also have already vowed I’m not going to wait three years to get another, and if my wife or I are retired at that point, and it looks like at least she will be, we are getting two of them.

    There are animals out there who desperately need homes.  I can’t fix that, but I can fix at least a piece of it.

  54. 54.

    Elizabelle

    @bbleh:  Thinking more about the lack of documentary evidence re Trump:  that habit is actually well enough known, that maybe it could be an aid in successful prosecution.  Just because it is not written down does not mean there was no conspiracy.  Look at the actions.  Look at the prior pardons, and promises of future pardons.

  57. 57.

    TaMara

    @Amir Khalid: First, condolences on losing Agent Scully – that was just a tough blow on top of a tough blow.

    If you feel like it’s time for another cat, then it’s time. Unlike my pups, my cats seem to find me very soon after losing one. I honestly think cats who pass on “help” in that matter.

    And if you need a more practical view – you have room and there’s a cat somewhere who needs a home. And snuggles. And treats. ❤️

  58. 58.

    PaulWartenberg

    @Amir Khalid:

    If you are used to the companionship of a cat, do not deny it to yourself.

    If your health issues are that problematic, see if you can rent a cat from a neighbor or family member every afternoon.

  60. 60.

    Elizabelle

    @zhena gogolia:  Hmmm.

    I guess I would be cool with TFG fleeing to Russia, but landing in the midst of some very seasoned Ukrainian troops.  That could be a good chapter.

    I really want him to face trial in this country, and to be incarcerated. Holding out for that.  And go after the grift by the family, too.

    Clean the stables because of corruption, too.  It is just as dangerous to democracy as outright insurgency.

  62. 62.

    Geminid

    @bbleh: I’ve seen reports that Stone was initiated into the Proud Boys, and he had obvious ties to the Oathkeepers. They all knew that Stone had a personal connection with Trump, and that Trump trusted him. He’d already done a big, dirty job for Trump when he worked with Russia during the 2016 election.

    So, Stone might have been the conduit between Trump and the militias. Stone is kind of a freak though, and even if he can implicate Trump prosecutors may not be able to break him. Mueller’s team couldn’t.

  64. 64.

    PaulWartenberg

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    There are the reports and evidence about the war room(s) and especially with Roger Stone’s interactions with the PB during the riot itself (all caught on documentary camera: Yes, trump’s people really thought they could take notes during a criminal fucking conspiracy!), to where the conspiracy charges that just convicted Tarrio can easily convict them.

    And getting Stone links you to trump.

  66. 66.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I do hope he’s indicted.

    I don’t think he’ll get indicted for January 6th.  I think he’s screwed on the documents and while I don’t know how the laws work (very important, because laws are weird) about the bureaucratic attempts to overturn the election, there’s certainly plenty of proof he tried it.

    EDIT – @PaulWartenberg:

    Mueller’s team couldn’t get Stone to flip

    I want to note that Stone publicly threatened to spill all if Trump didn’t pardon him, at which point Trump suddenly started handing out pardons.​

  67. 67.

    The Moar You Know

    @Amir Khalid: Paul brought up a good point.  I know your health has been problematic.  One thing that will make you feel better about the decision is have someone lined up who will take the cat into their home if you are no longer able to be the cat parent you wish to be.

    Large dogs – my preference – are a whole different thing in that regard and I have set a limit on myself that there will be no permanent adoptions, only fosters, after 70.

  68. 68.

    Suzanne

    @HumboldtBlue:

    not only did Tarrio get convicted of seditious conspiracy, many of his followers still believe he’s a rat for the Feds 

    I’m sure his prison experience will be fantastic.

  72. 72.

    Redshift

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Yeah, but:

    The language was very different from other sections, which borrowed more from combat or war.

    It’s possible it could convince a juror there’s reasonable doubt, but I think there’s also a decent possibility that no jurors are fooled by “but he said ‘peacefully’ that one time!”

  75. 75.

    MisterForkbeard

    @PaulWartenberg: That’s a good one – but it’s not as timeless. Requires actual knowledge of the players.

    But holy shit, Doonesbury’s been a national treasure.

  78. 78.

    PAM Dirac

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    That’s why I support Garland’s long, careful game.

    Some of the usual suspects are whining about how low level soldiers are finally getting theirs but the big guys are getting off scot free because Garland is being too careful. But most of the privilege issues were only settled in the last month or so. Pence appeared before the grand jury last week. There’s still Meadows, the White House counsel, and some other White House staffers to go, all of them in the middle of all this. Indicting drumpf without knowing what these guys would potentially testify doesn’t strike me as too careful, but necessary and going ahead without knowing seems not just stupid, but recklessly stupid.

  79. 79.

    Geminid

    @PaulWartenberg: Yes, and that time Stone had the prospect of a pardon when he was stonewalling Mueller’s team. He doesn’t now, and could be under more financial pressure. That still might not be enough though.

    Mark Meadows might flip and may have already. But does Meadows have first hand knowledge of preparations for the Insurrection? I think Trump would not of trusted him. Trump learned during his long criminal career the difference between people like Stone and people like Meadows.

  81. 81.

    Just One More Canuck

    @Amir Khalid: I haven’t been around much so I hadn’t heard but the sight of the name Scully brought back memories of my own Scully, now almost 10 years gone. She was an awesome cat – tough, friendly, playful and very gentle with our daughter. We now have Elsa the wonder goof, who may be the prettiest cat ever – snow white from nose to tail

    And it’s never too soon to start looking – when you see the right one, you’ll know

  82. 82.

    Redshift

    @Elizabelle:

    It makes me a little nervous, the prospect of Trump leaving the country. Worry that he will flee to Russia, or another nation that will not extradite.

    I don’t, really. I don’t believe he ever accepts in his narcissistic mind that he could actually be punished because planning to escape that would require thinking about being a loser. The thing he truly cannot bear is not being adored, and that’s not going to happen in Russia. It’s possible Saudi or Jared’s Qatari buddies might promise to supply him with fawning crowds if he fled there, but I think he probably knows that would only continue as long as he’s useful to them, and he couldn’t bear that either.

  83. 83.

    Wapiti

    @Elizabelle: Yeah, I think Stone and the rest of the seditious conspirators handling communications in the war room might be the next step in this series of cases – their acts need to be proven before higher people they were communicating with.

  84. 84.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @MazeDancer:

    Trump gotta be feeling the walls closing in a little with the Proud Boys verdict.

    I doubt it.  He maybe the feeling the walls close in with other stuff.  I would be positive he’s terrified of the prosecution noose slowly tightening around his neck, except right now I think he’s riding the high of clubbing DeSantis.  DeSantis was exactly what Trump needed, a jobber to make Trump look like a winner again.

    Until the guilty judgment comes down, he’ll be smugly positive he can’t lose the rape case.  At his level of misogyny, the idea of a woman’s consent meaning anything, morally or in practical repercussions, is absurd.

    Don’t worry.  Happy days will not be here again for Trump long.  There’s just too much shit coming down the pike for someone as hollow as him to feel safe once the DeSantis high wears off.

  85. 85.

    geg6

    @Geminid:

    I’m not so sure Meadows doesn’t know much.  According to Cassidy Hutchinson and others, he spent a lot of time burning up notes in his office’s fireplace.  Not the actions of a guy who knows nothing much incriminating.

  86. 86.

    Redshift

    @PAM Dirac:

    Some of the usual suspects are whining about how low level soldiers are finally getting theirs but the big guys are getting off scot free because Garland is being too careful.

    🙄 Anyone who calls the leaders of the PB and Oath Keepers “low level soldiers” must have their goalposts on wheels to move them at a moment’s notice.

  87. 87.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Redshift:

    I don’t believe he ever accepts in his narcissistic mind that he could actually be punished

    I think he can, because he’s not associating punishment with guilt.  He absolutely thinks he can be oppressed unfairly, and he sees the justice system as a tool to hurt people, not a legal process.  He leans hard to ‘I will always win’, but he’s a fundamentally hollow person and lives in terror that he’s wrong.

    He probably couldn’t bear to flee and look weak.  More importantly

    The thing he truly cannot bear is not being adored, and that’s not going to happen in Russia.

    This is spot on.  No more rallies, ever?  No golf clubs he can rule like a tyrant?  No being catered to at every moment?  That is literally a fate worse than death in his eyes.

  88. 88.

    narya

    I think the J6 charges against TFG–inciting an insurrection–would be the hardest to prove, but not impossible. The documents case requires evidence that he knew he had the documents–which they can prove at this point, given the materials found WITH the documents–and refused to return them. (If he had just handed everything over, that case would not exist.)

    I think there are potentially two J6-related cases–inciting an insurrection, and the false electors, with evidence for those two overlapping somewhat, in terms of the people involved. They might try to put them together into one big obstruction case, i.e., he (a) knew he had lost but (b) nevertheless did x, y, and z to prevent the transfer of power, with x, y, and z including false electors, the speech on J6, allowing armed folks into that speech, refusing to bring in assistance to clear the Capitol, etc. I think the obstruction case is provable; I don’t know the law well enough to have an opinion on whether it gets you to insurrection, conspiracy, etc.

  91. 91.

    Joey Maloney

    @TaMara: my cats seem to find me very soon after losing one. I honestly think cats who pass on “help” in that matter.

    This month’s CatsCast story is about that very thing. I listened to it on my commute home and was sobbing so hard I almost wrecked my bike.

    i can’t share it with you directly because this month’s story is Patrons-only but if you like fantastic fiction about cats, it’s well worth a monthly fiver.

  92. 92.

    geg6

    @narya: ​
     
    Re: the documents case…saw an article over at TPM (I think) that Smith and Co. think he or his minions tampered with the security videos at MaL before turning them over to Justice. No details on why they think that, but I can believe it.

  93. 93.

    PAM Dirac

    @Redshift:

    🙄 Anyone who calls the leaders of the PB and Oath Keepers “low level soldiers” must have their goalposts on wheels to move them at a moment’s notice.

    Yes and it occurred to me that “recklessly stupid” is a pretty apt description of a lot of these whiners so maybe it isn’t too surprising that they want others to be recklessly stupid.

  94. 94.

    Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg

    @Suzanne:

    He won’t exactly be welcomed with open arms by the Aryan Brotherhood.

  95. 95.

    trollhattan

    @TaMara: Similar response to that for DeSantis, then?

    Other than Orban, Putin and Bibi, Trump doesn’t have a lot of overseas fans.

  97. 97.

    StringOnAStick

    @geg6: At the time, I couldn’t believe they handed over the security videos without a protracted legal fight; makes sense that they tampered with them first.

  99. 99.

    Burnspbesq

    @PaulWartenberg:

    what’s the MINIMUM on these counts? that usually gives us an idea of the range that the judges will work with in sentencing.

    There Is no specific guidelines range for seditious conspiracy. There is some funky Second Circuit case law, arising out of the 1993 WTC bombing, that suggests that the appropriate analogy is to treason, but it’s unclear where that leads you. I’m betting they get the full 20.

  101. 101.

    bbleh

    @PaulWartenberg: poked around for 10 minutes but can’t find anything on sentencing guidelines.  Statutory max IS indeed 20 years, plus fines, but I did see one comment that up to 5 more years can be added because the victims were federal officials.  There apparently are a lot of varieties of conspiracy, some with maximums as low as 5 years.

  102. 102.

    TheronWare

    Ok, the next person who calls Grogu baby Yoda gets kicked off the island ha!

  105. 105.

    Ohio Mom

    @PaulWartenberg: Makes you wonder why any teacher would use a text for modern American history, just assign Doonesbury strips. Probably get better homework compliance and it’s as accurate a retelling as you can get.

  106. 106.

    Burnspbesq

    @narya:

    Dont forget about potential wire fraud charges related to fundraising off the Big Lie, and potential securities fraud charges related to the funding of Truth Social. And you better believe that SDNY got the message Judge Kaplan sent to Tacopina about jury tampering.

  107. 107.

    Paul in KY

    @The Moar You Know: My son wants a dog bad and I think we’ll be getting one in several months. I’ve never been a dog person.  I like dogs…other people’s dogs. So, I probably will need some advice on how to coexist with this one (whatever type of dog it ends up being).

  110. 110.

    narya

    @Burnspbesq: Oh, right!! I do keep forgetting the wire fraud–and I can see that as a third charge, rather than related to the documents or the J6 charges. I WANT MULTIPLE TRIALS.

    Seriously, I do, because I think mushing everything together is not a good strategy.

  113. 113.

    jonas

    @TaMara:If Donald isn’t appearing in the E Jean Carroll Case – as Tacopants confirmed this morning – then I wonder what the REAL reason is for cutting his UK trip short

    Not only that, his lawyers apparently don’t plan to call *any* witnesses and will just simply rest. IANAL, so I don’t know why in the world you wouldn’t want to try to find someone to impeach the other side’s testimony or something.

    Oh, unless you got nuthin’ and figure the best you can hope for is just to suck it up over a guilty verdict for now and then gum things up forever on appeal. That seems to be Trump’s style.

  114. 114.

    brendancalling

    @Betty Cracker: “He added that upon his release, he thought he might get out of politics and do “some kind of cultural thing.””

    If he dies, he could be used as mold culture.

  115. 115.

    Heidi Mom

    As this is an open thread, I’ll mention some happy news:  According to WaPo, the FDA has just approved a vaccine against RSV for adults 60 and over.  (Children’s vaccines are more difficult to develop, but they’re working on it.)  I’m very excited because I think this is the illness that my husband and I had last fall and earlier this year, and it was one of the worst experiences of my life–I’d never felt that kind of physical weakness before.  The vaccine should be available this fall.

  116. 116.

    Soprano2

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: My reply to that is “Yes, they did march peacefully. The problem is what happened once they quit marching”. Because MAGA’s ALWAYS emphasize that he used the word “peacefully” there, as if it excuses every other fucking thing he ever said about it.

  117. 117.

    Sean

    @Paul in KY:

    So, I probably will need some advice on how to coexist with this one (whatever type of dog it ends up being).

    If it is at all accessible to you, hire a pro who can work with you for a few weeks or a month and really teach you how to train your potential new pup. My wife and I are long time dog people and after one of our seniors passed, we got a new dog who was a living terror. But he turned out to be smart and consistent traning has turned him into a pretty good dog, who will probably be a perfect dog once he’s lost all his puppy and early adolescence crazy. It’s hard to commit the time, but very worth it. A pro can really teach you good strategies you can then build on.

  119. 119.

    TaMara

    @Paul in KY: Looking forward to the photos and posts of you and “your” dog lounging on the couch, going on walks and you sneaking them treats. It’s always the way with “I’m not a dog person.” They find you a challenge and will work extra hard to get you to spoil them.

    See also:  cats and any guest who does not like cats. They leave with copious amounts of cat hair attached to them.

  120. 120.

    Soprano2

    @The Moar You Know: My mother quit adopting cats in her early ’80’s for the same reason. She & I were lucky that the animal rescue she had given money to agreed to find homes for her cats after she passed. I was glad I didn’t have to worry about them, because none of them had ever been around dogs and all were old so my house was a no-go.

  121. 121.

    karen marie

    @Paul in KY: My advice is that everyone sit down and talk about the type of dog that will fit well in the household and agree on how the dog’s training will be focused.

    I have found consistency to be key. Everyone using the same language helps the dog know what’s going on.  For instance, “down” can be confusing if used both to direct the dog off furniture or a person and to assume a prone position. I use “off” for the former.

    There are dog breeds that are easier to live with than others. Being cute or projecting a particular image rarely results in a happy long-term relationship. Not everyone can handle, say, a border collie.

    I was not a “dog person” before I got my first. I am on my third.

  122. 122.

    Kent

    @bbleh:

    @Elizabelle: @Frankensteinbeck: I agree.  Trump has a lot of problems, but a certain mob-boss type of discretion is something he does very well.  There’s lots of commentary from people around him about his indirection — “would be good if X happened” kind of stuff — and he famously does not use written communication.  And at the level at which this really was planned — Stone, Bannon, et al. — my strong impression is that they are similarly circumspect.

    Tarrio et al. knew what they were expected to do, and they got the knuckleheads to charge right into it.  I think that’s pretty clear to everyone even if they never make charges stick at the top.  (And even if they did, it would never dent the faith of the cultists.)

    Trump has figured out that he can do all of this COMPLETELY out in the open and in public and somehow that makes it EASIER for him to get away with.  I mean “Russia are you listening?”  For fuck’s sake.

    I don’t know how you solve that problem except to hold him accountable for his own public words.

  123. 123.

    geg6

    @jonas:

    Tacopants (love that and I’m keeping it) thinks victim blaming is sufficient.  Lord knows, he did enough of it.

  125. 125.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @bbleh: If the concern is potential max penalty/sentence it’s worth noting that Obstruction (Jan 6), and Mail/Wire Fraud (fundraising on Big Lie) both carry max sentences that are just as harsh (20 years/count).  Ben Meisales and Michael Popok were just musing the other day that Trump could end up facing HUNDREDS of Fraud charges which also just happens to be the easiest crime to prove and get conviction.  And we already know Jack Smith is looking in that direction :)

  126. 126.

    Paul in KY

    @TaMara: I’m hoping it will turn out like that. Dogs and definitely cats do like me & I like them too (dogs, in general), cats I’ve had several and loved them all. My last kitteh Mongo was put down back in Dec for mouth cancer and I will ensure we have another cat in place before the dog is here. Appreciate your kind words!

  128. 128.

    Eunicecycle

    @Heidi Mom: I saw that, too. I also think I had it in the fall. I was babysitting for my granddaughter who had it, since she couldn’t go to daycare. Then I got something pretty horrible and it wasn’t Covid. I ended up getting a prescription for an antibiotic after about 2 weeks because it just wouldn’t go away. A vaccine will be great!

  129. 129.

    Bill Arnold

    @Geminid:

    Stone is kind of a freak though, and even if he can implicate Trump prosecutors may not be able to break him. Mueller’s team couldn’t.

    Agreed that he’s a freak. For somebody his age, his OPSEC is OK.
    I have a few questions for Mr. Stone. Not ones he’s yet been asked.

  130. 130.

    William D

    psy ops mission for willow should she choose to accept….sneak into mar a Lago and nestle on the raping ex presidents head while he sleeps

  131. 131.

    Roger Moore

    @Elizabelle:

    It makes me a little nervous, the prospect of Trump leaving the country. Worry that he will flee to Russia, or another nation that will not extradite.

    I’m not at all worried. If he flees into exile to avoid an indictment, he’s as good as admitting guilt. Yeah, his hardcore fans will take his side, but they would anyway.  Everyone else will see it as what it is.

  133. 133.

    trollhattan

    @Roger Moore: Yup. Idi Amin spent that last many years of his screwed up life a guest of Saudi Arabia. Maybe not technically punished for his murderous ways, but stuck where he could not affect anybody again, ever.

    While I’d love Trump in Club Fed, exile is nearly as good.

  135. 135.

    C Stars

    @Ohio Mom: We get the local Sunday paper delivered, and it runs Doonesbury at the top of the funny pages. Our kids are fascinated by it but don’t get any of the historical/cultural references beyond Trump, so it’s become a bit of a Sunday morning tradition: explaining Doonesbury to the kids. They’ve picked up a lot of recent American history because of it.

  136. 136.

    mrmoshpotato

    Hundreds of pounds of cooked pasta mysteriously dumped in New Jersey woods leaving locals baffled. pic.twitter.com/oWT3brrzV1— Daily Loud (@DailyLoud) May 4, 2023

    Ummmmm……

    And fuck you, Twitter, for making hashtag links unless without an account.

  137. 137.

    The Moar You Know

    My son wants a dog bad and I think we’ll be getting one in several months. I’ve never been a dog person.  I like dogs…other people’s dogs. So, I probably will need some advice on how to coexist with this one (whatever type of dog it ends up being).

    @Paul in KY: Do NOT get a dog until you have read through the books by the Monks of New Skete – “how to raise a puppy”, and “how to be your dog’s best friend”.  Those two should be mandatory for anyone looking to get a dog.  The books will help you to successfully get a dog that you can live with and deal with.  No two are the same!

    I assume your son is young.  That means the dog will be looking to you to take care of his or her needs.  The tired old saw is that the kid will learn responsibility by taking care of the dog.  IT NEVER WORKS OUT THAT WAY, just so you know.

    Having a dog should be a very deep, profound experience and you need to be ready for a lot of emotional work that you probably weren’t counting on.  I wasn’t!  But I can say this:  my dog made me a far better person, in too many ways to count.

    Get the books, read the books, and your son, depending on age and reading ability, should read them too.

    My words of wisdom:  Pick up all the poop or they WILL eat it.  That can be trained out to an extent, but I watch my dog when in the yard – it’s a nice excuse to be outside anyway – and just get it when they are done.

  139. 139.

    JaneE

    Love the comment about Willow.  There is nothing like a cat to give you some perspective on your importance.

  141. 141.

    Elizabelle

    @The Moar You Know:  @Paul in KY:

    What about getting an older dog?  Very likely already has training and manners, and you will know how big the dog is going to get.

    It is hard work training a puppy.  So many wonderful dogs are surrendered.  You can find rescue groups for favorite breeds, too.

    Whatever you get, a dog is one of the best things in this life.  Ever.

  142. 142.

    geg6

    @The Moar You Know: ​ I found a trainer to be a thousand times more helpful than any books (including the Monks’). My sister and her husband just got their first dog (a mini golden doodle, so cute!) and, believe me, she did all the research. Didn’t help at all. The trainer has made a world of difference. In fact, little Macie has been such a star student that the trainer wants to do agility training with her because she’s so good at following directions and is super athletic. They tried her out a bit on the agility course and she did all but one of the obstacles perfectly the very first time except one, which she did perfectly the second time she tried it.​

  143. 143.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Betty Cracker: He added that upon his release, he thought he might get out of politics and do “some kind of cultural thing.”

    Hmm…politics is a cultural thing, one might say a subset. Or does this mean he’s getting out of protection work for corrupt elected officials and doing more bespoke, niche authoritarianism?

    Does Etsy have a Nazi section?

  144. 144.

    Anotherlurker

    @The Moar You Know: When my dear, sweet Golden Retriever , Addie, died on Election Day, 2022, I was devastated.   I was sleeping much too long. Spontaneous tears and body racking sobs were daily occurrences.

    My oldest friend suggested that I adopt Lucy, a 6 month old,16lb. Cocker Spaniel .  My friends had adopted her brother, Jack, in August 2022.  Addie and I often baby sat so I knew he was a gentle but loving and crazy boy.

    Lucy has the same loving, cuddling personality.  Most of the time she is curled up on my lap.  However, she still has that crazy, LOL puppy personality.  Puppy madness is something I never had to deal with because all my other rescues were over 5 years old.  It is different but it is a whole lot of fun!

    This little ball of fire has helped dull the pain of losing Addie.  Because of her I smile a lot, even thinking about my sweet Golden Girl.   I still cry at Addie’s memory but the thought that she would have loved Lucy as she loved Jack, Lucy’s brother, gives me a wonderful feeling through the tears.

    When someone loses a beloved pet, the timeline for a new addition is different for everyone.  In my case adopting a pup soon after losing one was the best thing I could do.

  146. 146.

    Amir Khalid

    Thank you guys for the words of encouragement. I still need to tend to my own health a little while longer, but yes I will be looking for a feline companion as soon as I feel able.

  148. 148.

    Baud

    @trollhattan: There was a time when a foreign leader expressing a preference for a U.S. presidential candidate would have been shocking.

  149. 149.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Baud: It would still be shocking if a foreign leader expressed a preference for a Democrat.

    Authoritarian leaders expressing support for Republican Presidents? Just another day ending in ‘y.’

  150. 150.

    Roger Moore

    @Redshift: ​
     

    It’s possible it could convince a juror there’s reasonable doubt, but I think there’s also a decent possibility that no jurors are fooled by “but he said ‘peacefully’ that one time!”

    If I were the prosecution, I would try to replay the entire speech in court. If they hear only selected snippets, they might be fooled about the message, but if they hear it in its totality, as the people at the rally did, the meaning will be clear.

  155. 155.

    Paul in KY

    @The Moar You Know: My son is 5 now. My wife and I will be the ones taking care of it, until he is several years older, I deem.  The additional care (as opposed to a cat) is one of the reasons I’ve had for never getting one. I will check out those books you mentioned!

  159. 159.

    Anonymous At Work

    @StringOnAStick: They wouldn’t have had a leg to stand on.  “Working back hallway in a private club owned by the holding company of a former President” isn’t executive privilege.  Trying to claim it would mean that “official government business not for public eyes” took place there, which is contrary to what TFG wants to claim.
    Also, the key sequence on the tape might be seconds-long, so TFG shouldn’t be giving Smith any hints.

    And yes, the entire thing has a Nixon Tapes, 15-minute gap feeling to me too.  Impeccable records for months…*except* for 10 minutes…that’s what could get nasty.

  161. 161.

    Roger Moore

    @Heidi Mom:

    That’s great.  My father was part of a clinical trial for a RSV vaccine, quite possibly this one.  He’s pretty sure he was in the control leg- he didn’t have a typical vaccination reaction when he got his shot- but he was excited to be involved.

  162. 162.

    karen marie

    @trollhattan: I predict Erdogan will arrange another “coup” if he loses the election that “forces” him to throw out the results and jail the opposition.

  169. 169.

    Another Scott

    @Roger Moore: Yup.  Snippets are deadly.

    I remember in the trial for the Rodney King beating by the LA PD:

    [microscopic snippet 1] “Did he stop resisting here?”

    [microscopic snippet 2]  “How about here?”

    […]

    The totality matters.

    Thanks.

    Grr…,
    Scott.

  171. 171.

    Geminid

    @geg6: Meadows knows plenty about the effort to subvert the constitutional process through bogus Electors, etc. He helped orchestrate it.

    The violent Insurrection was a separate but complementary part of Trump’s scheme. My guess is that Meadows’ knowledge in that area is second hand and that he was kept out of the planning. He was morally complicit, but not complicit operationally in a way that would allow him to implicate Trump.

  173. 173.

    The Moar You Know

    @Paul in KY: you will be very happy you did.  That’s the homework.  When you get a dog, get a trainer.  That’s the actual “work”

  174. 174.

    trollhattan

    @karen marie: My fear as well, hoping Edrogan’s recent health issues are worse than he’s making them out to be. Perhaps he doesn’t have the juice for another coup.

    Heard an extensive interview with his main rival and am really impressed. He succinctly states his desire to return true democracy to the Turkish people, both the government and the judiciary, and shrugged off fears for his personal safety in the pursuit. The people deserve him, who knows if they’ll be allowed to have him as leader?

  177. 177.

    C Stars

    @narya: Wow, thank you for the offer! We have a surfeit of books in our house so it is not an urgent need, but if you want to get rid of them we will take them. How to share info on this site?

  178. 178.

    Ruckus

    @Redshift:

    This.

    SFB has been playing the same scam for all of his shitty life. And while he’s got a name out there and some money, he’s not actually successful. He’s turned what should have been a not unreasonable fortune into barely 1/4 of that, by failing at everything he’s ever done.

  179. 179.

    TaMara

    @Paul in KY: I should also tell you I’m available if you need to bounce questions/ideas off someone who has been rescuing dogs forever…I think going on 30 yrs now. I swear I’ve seen it all.

    One of the things for sure – get your dog from a foster/rescue/breeder who doesn’t sugarcoat their personality. Once I decided to rescue Jasper, his foster mom was so helpful in giving me a good idea of what our issues would be going forward. With her help I was not surprised by many of Jasper’s quirks and was ready to work with him on them.

    It also gave me an out if she saw something I didn’t think I could handle or wouldn’t be good for the rest of my crew.

  180. 180.

    trollhattan

    @PaulWartenberg: Sorta related, “White House Plumbers” featuring Woody Harrelson is pretty funny. He (Hunt) and Liddy as bagmen, hoo boy. First episode only introduces a portion of the eventual full group.

    ETA err mah gurrd, just figured out the vaguely familiar Dorothy Hunt is Cersei Lannister.

  181. 181.

    zhena gogolia

    @Roger Moore: Dostoevsky wrote about this ploy in The Brothers Karamazov and in articles about actual court cases.

    ETA: Not videos, obviously, but selecting out snippets out of context rather than looking at the whole.

  182. 182.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Baud:

    “Why don’t foreign leaders want a Democratic president?” — NYT Pitchbot

    ”We talked to ordinary NYC diners at a local French bistro, Jewish deli, and English pub to learn the private views of President Macron, PM Netanyahu, and King Charles.” — Moar NYT Pitchbot

  183. 183.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @trollhattan: I’m looking forward to that one, but I want to watch The Diplomat first, and I need to catch up on Ted Lasso, and there are three or four other shows I’m forgetting

    I don’t think I’m unique, and I wonder how that kind of “Oh, yeah, I need to check that out” phenomenon will affect teh writers strike. I think the only shows people will notice are the Jimmys on the late night shows

  184. 184.

    Geminid

    @Bill Arnold: A recent poll sponsored by Al Monitor showed a virtual tie: Erdogan 45.2% and Kilicdoraglu 44.9%. Like other polls, they took the undecideds and distributed them proportionally.

    Two minor candidates will likely prevent Erdogan or Kilicdoraglu from exceeding 50% in the first round. In that case the election will be decided by a runoff two weeks later, on May 28.

  185. 185.

    Kelly

    @Paul in KY: I’ll chime in on the pro dog trainer advice. When we got a dog at the request of our two middle school aged sons we signed up for weekly classes. The lady ran a class for 6~8 dogs and their people. She was very clear that her goal was to train the people. We each attended a couple sessions which the instructor was great about. Dear Alice was a Australian Shepard/Border Collie mix and wonderful friend for 15 years.

  186. 186.

    trollhattan

    @TaMara: Anecdata–we’ve had two adult rescues and one pup from a breeder, and the pup has proved far easier and has the fewest behavior quirks. (⊙_⊙)？

    Am convinced no two dogs are alike. Kinda like hoomans.

    To your point, honest communications about dog behavior and personality are super critical before bringing one home (or inviting them into your car in the middle of the night).

  187. 187.

    narya

    @C Stars: WaterGirl might be able to give us each other’s email? And then I can send them to you

    ETA: about to jump on a meeting, but will prep a pic of all that I can send you once WG hooks us up!

  188. 188.

    TaMara

    @trollhattan: I can make almost anything work, but agree – Scout and Trixie are from a breeder who is a friend and very good at how she chooses who to breed and they’ve been a dream to train, not without regular puppy issues, but super easy, including potty training. They and Bixby were my first and only puppies.

    For my rescues, just gotta take them where they are at, and work from there. I’ve been pretty lucky with that, but you’ll never see me rescue a Husky, Pit Bull or Lab – nothing wrong with those dogs, but they are not dogs I can handle.  I know my limits! Also, my one and only encounter with a Saint Dane rescue (an on-purpose! mix of Dane and St. Bernard) left me wondering why anyone would breed those together. Not really a good mix of traits and for sure not a dog I could handle (the muscles on this dog made Bixby look weak and he was a beast).

  189. 189.

    karen marie

    @Kelly:
    @Paul in KY:

     

    her goal was to train the people.

     

    Finding the right trainer can be a journey in itself. Don’t feel locked in with the first – or second – you hire. I trained my first dogs myself but my current dog was a special case with huge issues I wasn’t competent to unravel. Neither were the first two trainers I worked with. The third, however, was a champ. Our Lucy is now 13 years old. Once we worked out the issues – it took two years – she became a splendid, happy dog.

  191. 191.

    Roger Moore

    @Kelly:

    She was very clear that her goal was to train the people.

    I’ve heard this same thing: most of dog training classes is really teaching the human how to be in charge.

  192. 192.

    trollhattan

    Good news for us, this afternoon.

    Davis police are expected to announce an arrest Thursday afternoon in a series of three stabbings over the last week that left two men dead and a woman critically injured.

    A law enforcement source with knowledge of the arrest but who was not authorized to speak on the matter told The Sacramento Bee that the announcement involves a “person of interest” detained Wednesday night near Sycamore Park, where a fatal stabbing occurred last Saturday.

    Davis police did not respond to a request for comment Thursday morning, but posted an announcement on its Facebook page saying a 2 p.m. press conference was set and that police “have a person detained in connection with two homicides and an attempted homicide that have occurred over the past week.” UC Davis Chancellor Gary S. May told a Sacramento Bee reporter Thursday morning that authorities were planning an announcement of some sort later in the day. The name of the person of interest has not been released, but a source said he was a Davis resident. Police cautioned Wednesday that no one had been arrested and that other “persons of interest” had been detained during the weeklong investigation.

    The source told The Bee the expected arrest announcement involves one person suspected in all three attacks. The person detained Wednesday at about 5 p.m. a block from Sycamore Park matched the description of the suspect in two of the attacks, and was wearing black Adidas pants with a white stripe similar to those seen by witnesses.

    https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/crime/article275012191.html#storylink=cpy

    Undoubtedly the UCD campus has been on edge the last week. Hope they really have their guy.

  193. 193.

    Tony Jay

    @Amir Khalid:

    Fill the hole. You want it, the cat will love it, and there’s a non-zero chance that you’ll get back from the pet store to find that you now own Jared Leto.

    Life, a gamble it is.

  201. 201.

    Ruckus

    @Roger Moore:

    I’ve had reactions to vaccinations ranging from 9 days in hospital with a 105 degree fever to absolutely nothing whatsoever. I was born when the only vaccine was for smallpox. I grew up with polio victims and have a neighbor my age that had polio, and I am really amazed that the Covid vaccines are as good as they are with minimal to zero side effects.

  202. 202.

    Paul in KY

    @Tony Jay: Is he playing a cat in his next movie? He probably could…

    I have seen him perform with his band 30 Seconds to Mars. Was a fine set.

    See what your quip was about now!

  206. 206.

    Gin & Tonic

    Am I the only one who thinks the meme at the top of this post should read “Around, he fucked; Out, he found” ?

  207. 207.

    Glidwrith

    @tam1MI: Respiratory Syncytial Virus

    Nasty for a kid. Son almost hospitalized for it. Left him with asthma until older adolescence.

    ETA: Dammit, Ruckus beat me to it!

  209. 209.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Geminid: Meadows value is that he was the point person that everyone was going through on Jan 6.  Everyone was texting HIM to try and reach Trump and his texts/testimony will have crucial information about Trump was doing, what his mindset was etc., and also for tying all of it (the greater conspiracy of false electors, pressuring Pence, insurrection) together.  And he’s already been ordered to testify and could be compelled to if DOJ grants him immunity so he can’t plead the 5th.  And while he may not have been in the room for the planning of the attack on the Capital, he was “in communication with organizers of the January 6 rally, including Amy Kremer of Women for America First” and still could have some very useful testimony that helps connect the dots to Trump.

  210. 210.

    BlueGuitarist

    Mostly focused down-ballot but  a lot of good material in new ad from Colin Allred for US senate:

    “Ted Cruz cheered on the mob…then hid in a supply closet when they stormed the Capitol…..When Texans were freezing in the dark, he jetted off to Cancun. He’ll do anything to get on Fox News but can’t be bothered to help keep rural Texas hospitals open; spends months trying to whip up phony culture wars but not a minute trying to raise wages or lower drug prices….We don’t have to be embarrassed by our senator, we can get a new one”

    https://youtu.be/IzFWIuDqkCc

  211. 211.

    Soprano2

    Oh good fucking grief, the MO attorney general (R-whackadoodle) is trying to make the MO state auditor (R-actually has kind of a spine) say on the initiatives that groups want to circulate about restoring abortion rights that the measures would cost the state BILLIONS of dollars, because he’s falsely claiming that doing so could endanger MO’s Medicaid money. https://www.kcur.org/politics-elections-and-government/2023-05-04/missouri-auditor-says-attorney-general-tried-to-falsely-inflate-cost-of-abortion-rights-amendment Just ridiculous…..

  215. 215.

    Fleeting Expletive

    @Elizabelle: Your excellent point makes me wonder, at what point would some intentional act in furtherance of criminal activity cause the Secret Service to stop that felon-protectee from acting, I wonder.  We got a little bit of an answer with the testimony about tfg lunging towards a driver, but I haven’t seen any further information.

  218. 218.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @TaMara: Couldn’t get an invitation to the coronation, so he’s flying back to Losersville

     

    ETA: Looks like others beat me to it.

  219. 219.

    Geminid

    @UncleEbeneezer: Meadows has information for sure. Like I said, he orchestrated the subversion of the electoral vote count. But I don’t think everyone went through him. I doubt if Roger Stone did. His relationship with Trump predated Meadows by years if not decades. Trump may have used Meadows, but I don’t think he trusted him like he trusted Stone.

    I’m saying the planning for the violent Insurrection was held more closely, and I think Meadows was not in that loop.. He may be able to help connect dots, but someone else would have solid evidence of Trump’s complicity. Stone was probably the interface between Trump and the militias that led the insurrection.

  221. 221.

    StringOnAStick

    @Fleeting Expletive: I think he was stopped in his lunge for the driver because it was impossible for him to take over the vehicle and it threatened the safety of all of them in the vehicle if they’d let him do it.  So, the question becomes just how far his private detail would go to carry out his demands; leave the country and all they own/love?  Trash their careers?  Become knowing participants in a criminal conspiracy?  I suspect his personal detail have been selected for loyalty and generally shitty ethics, but even people like that must have noticed by now that the loyalty only goes one way with tRump and they’ll end up as men without a country but with criminal liability and facing extradition.

  224. 224.

    Geminid

    @Eunicecycle: Stone has a major bill for back taxes that he’s fighting the Treasury and Justice Departments over, so there’s that.

    If Stone was in fact the contact point between Trump and the militias, one of the convicted militia leaders might flip on him. Or there may be someone in Trump’s inner circle who could.

    Both Matthew Calamaris, Senior and Junior were to appear before a DC grand jury today, according to CNN. The report is that Jack Smith’s team is investigating possible tampering with the Mar-a-Lago tapes relating to the classified document trove, and will question the Calamaris about it.

    Calamari Sr. was close to Trump, in a security capacity. He might be able to incriminate Trump in the violent Insurrection. Maybe Jack Smith’s team can pry that information out.

  226. 226.

    Roger Moore

    @Fleeting Expletive: ​
     

    Your excellent point makes me wonder, at what point would some intentional act in furtherance of criminal activity cause the Secret Service to stop that felon-protectee from acting, I wonder.

    The big worry is that Trump has successfully suborned his detail, so they will help him act in furtherance of his criminal actions rather than stop him. There’s indication he reached this point with at least some of his protective detail.

  228. 228.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Geminid: The report is that Jack Smith’s team is investigating possible tampering with the Mar-a-Lago tapes relating to the classified document trove, and will question the Calamaris about it.

    Wouldn’t be surprised if Trump tried to had someone else tamper with the security tapes, given the rousing success of all his other coverup attempts since he started seeking office.

  229. 229.

    gvg

    @Amir Khalid: No, because a cat person can be very uncomfortable with out one as I have learned. And it bothered me more when it was a young cat. With older cats I think I was preparing myself. I was more prepared and I also was able to wait to adopt again. When it was a sudden loss of a young cat I was really bothered and did not wait. The house and lifestyle did not seem right or comfortable.

  230. 230.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @gvg: it bothered me more when it was a young cat

    Read as “when I was a young cat.”

    Was trying to figure out if you were in touch with your inner feline or your inner jazz band.

  231. 231.

    Dan B

    Speaking of Proud Boys, “This is our religion.  If you need to ejaculate you may onky do so once in every thirty days and only within a yard of a woman who consents, and ehe may not be a prostitute.

    Does this strike anyone as fear of being gay?  It also seems like a way to make young guys neurotic and steer them into cult mindset.

  232. 232.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Dan B: If not fear of being gay, very explicitly heteronormative.

    They’re for consent, though.  What should be unnecessary props to them. Though that’s pretty objectifying, so one unit of anti-props also.

    Point of order, what if one were to get stimulated by a woman then walk away just prior to  completion?

  235. 235.

    karen marie

    @Sister Golden Bear:   That’s always been my experience .  I tried to force fate’s hand once and it didn’t work.  I went to the pound and brought home an 18-month-old cat but my two dogs voted her off the island, refusing to allow her out of the basement.  After two weeks, I returned the sweet dear and waited for fate who ultimately came through with Our Gracie.  I stopped at a convenience store for directions, and she was sitting on their counter waiting for me.  “Is this your kitten,” I said?  “No,” they said, “she’s yours.”  And indeed she was.

    The dogs – especially Patty Patty – were a little put out but within days were allowing Baby Gracie to sleep among them on their giant dog bed.

  237. 237.

    Roger Moore

    @Dan B:

    It also seems like a way to make young guys neurotic and steer them into cult mindset.

    That sounds more like it than anything.  If it were just about fear of being gay, you’d think they’d want to have sex with women as often as possible to prove how very non-gay they are.  No more than once a month, and only within a yard of a consenting woman just seems really weird and freaky.  Even the wording sounds cult-like.

  241. 241.

    evodevo

    @Frankensteinbeck: ​
      Besides that, he doesn’t really have any cash…and you can believe he would have to pay for everything in Russia..Pootie Poot isn’t going to gift him a dacha and a yacht…he would have to pay his way, and he’s never had enough to do that…they would put him up in an apartment like Martha in The Americans…

  242. 242.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Dan B: There is of course a long long history of anti-masturbationist crackpottery about “precious bodily fluids”, as the guy in Dr. Strangelove called them, and it almost always is connected to weird-ass reactionary politics.

  243. 243.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Geminid: Gotcha.  Agreed.  Not everybody went through Meadows, but I think more people went through Meadows than any other Trump official which is what makes him probably the most valuable witness, overall.

  248. 248.

    Haydnseek

    Well, sometimes that amounts to half the distance to the goal line, so I’ll allow it.

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