Hey all! Sorry to have been quiet lately. I was under a big deadline to launch my art site, and am prepping three different shows right now, with rehearsals right around the corner, so I’ve been swamped with work. I’ve also just been overwhelmed with the incredible acts of transphobia that seem to be the GOP’s lifeblood, so every time I start to write, another shitty transphobic event happens that tops the last one!
Shit is pretty bad, ya’ll… (emphasis mine)
Florida Legislature Sends Extreme Gender-Affirming Care Ban to Governor’s Desk
Even among the crowded field of extreme and damaging bans on best practice, age-appropriate health care, this bill stands out as particularly mean-spirited. SB 254 is an extreme, unprecedented attack on transgender people, their health care, and the families and health care providers who care for them.
SB 254 would give Florida the unprecedented ability to strip parental rights from parents who support their transgender children. This bill would penalize providers by inflicting criminal penalties (including felony penalties) on providers who give gender-affirming care; it would take licenses away from those providers; and it would prohibit Medicare from covering gender-affirming care for transgender youth or adults. It would also forbid public funds, including those of a public university, public hospital, city or county, and Medicare, from being used to provide benefits that include gender-affirming care – for transgender people of all ages. And – uniquely – it allows the state to use gender-affirming care or the “risk” of such care for a child as a reason to give Florida family courts exceptional jurisdiction to set aside another state’s custody determination.
This bill is really damn scary. It legalizes kidnapping trans children from supportive parents, discriminating against transgender adults by threatening providers, and also will allow the state to take away kids from their parents if one of their parents is transgender or supports transgender rights because that could put the child at “risk” of gender-affirming care.
Horrifying.
Elsewhere, we have shit like this:
Zooey Zephyr, Montana’s lone transgender representative was censured by the Republican-run Montana legislature. They forbid her from entering the House chamber, so she decided to work from this public bench outside of the chamber. This is her on April 27:
A few days later, those women snickering in the top photo took over the bench, forcing Zephyr to work standing up at the nearby lunch counter. They have been identified as family members of the same lawmakers who censured Zephyr.
These photos really say it all.
The women on that bench represent a culture of hate, a society that has stigmatized trans people over generations.
For them, barring Zooey Zephyr from the chamber and gallery was not enough.
They took the bench too. https://t.co/a2WyOGbYE6
— Melectabuzz ⚡️ (@feminitude) May 1, 2023
A lot of people are noting the similarities…
same vibes pic.twitter.com/hWwzxqLnRw
— platibus (@the_platibus) May 1, 2023
But, in a sign that people are not all terrible assholes, a group of folks in Helena who are remote workers have been going to the Capitol in order to hold the bench for Zephyr. They call themselves the Blue Bench Brigade.
This. Is. Awesome. 💙#BlueBenchBrigade @ZoAndBehold https://t.co/1MtIJyNoyI
— Momma Bird 🐣🌻 (@picklepants715) May 2, 2023
“I don’t do well with bullying, and I decided instead of just kind of staying at home and fuming about this, that I was going to come in and at the very least, just tell Zooey that I support her and admire her bravery,” said Kurt Fehlig, one of three people holding down the bench around noon Tuesday.
“We’re keeping the bench for Zooey. So we can’t move,” said Tom Snell.
FUCK YES. THIS IS HOW YOU SHOW ALLYSHIP!!!
Zooey herself is being incredibly positive and resilient about the whole thing:
Some folks showed up early this morning and sat on the public benches near the entrance to the House, so Seat 31 has moved.
I’m up and ready to work. Plus, I hear stand desks are all the rage these days. pic.twitter.com/Nu8TEo50FJ
— Rep. Zooey Zephyr (@ZoAndBehold) May 1, 2023
On a personal note, this kind of behavior is pretty common in the lives of trans people, and it manifests in both small and big ways. I’ve also been quiet because I have been dealing with some bullies of my own in a space that is supposed to be a safe haven for me. I have been a member of a recovery group the last three years, which voted last spring to change from a Women’s meeting to a Women’s Plus meeting, so that the nonbinary people and trans women who were in the group felt included, and to indicate to newcomers who might be trans that the group was a safe place to get sober.
This effort has been under attack now for the last few months as some of the older women in the group have been talking about needing a safe space for “women” (read: cis-women) and spreading disinformation that could have been pulled straight from JK Rowling’s twitter feed. This weekend there will be a big meeting to decide whether or not this group that I have called home is going to choose to exclude me and other trans folks or not.
What I plan to say is that the purpose of that group is to help as many people as it can. Having a more inclusive name to the group harms no one, it just asks that everyone make space for one another. It can be a little uncomfortable, but we will all benefit from it in the long run. To intentionally close the group to trans folks is to make us into a political issue, rather than recognizing that we are people who are just trying to be in community with others we relate to.
I also have a lot of thoughts of how it has become culturally acceptable on reneging on trans people when it becomes uncomfortable. The biggest example lately was the harm Budweiser did to the trans community by cratering to right-wing hatred, pulling their partnership with Dylan Mulvaney, and quiet-firing the employees responsible for it. When a large institution shows that bowing to transphobia is acceptable given a certain threshold of discomfort or pressure, they give other institutions and individuals permission to do the same, which ripples out across culture. Trans people are human beings, not a political issue, and we should reject efforts to make us one.
Back to the grindstone! Happy Friday
Baud
Good luck with your art project and your recovery group.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
Stay strong and I wish you the best of luck with your recovery group and your art project
SiubhanDuinne
Thank you for your passionate and thoughtful posts, Eddie. I’m very glad you’re here.
Other MJS
“silenced after telling Republicans they would have blood on their hands for opposing gender-affirming health care for kids”
That’s it? That’s their excuse??
Dorothy A. Winsor
I like the comparison of the bench to the lunch counter.
Those women look so pleased with themselves.
lowtechcyclist
@Other MJS:
Yes, that was their excuse. Horrid people.
planet eddie
@Other MJS: yep! How dare !!!
Fake Irishman
Small technical point here from within my health policy balliwack:
I have no idea how a state can forbid Medicare from covering a service, since that’s a federal program. I could see Medicaid, since that’s a joint federal-state service. Of course, ideologues in the state legislature aren’t exactly know for their knowledge of public policy….
I do think there is a very good chance much of this legislation will ultimately be struck down in court, if nothing else because of vagueness and poor draftsmanship (see the SC injunction issued against the West Virginia bathroom bill, which is not a final ruling, but does indicate the court will take a long hard, critical look). Of course, I know that’s only part of the idea behind these bills; terrorizing trans folks in the short term may be worth more to the sponsors than long-term constitutionality.
Hang in there P.E., you’ve got plenty of friends in your corner even if it doesn’t feel like it most of the time these days.
lowtechcyclist
I bet those ladies consider themselves good Christians.
Assholes for Christ, they are.
rikyrah
They are horrible people who need someone to hate. That is the basis for them.
As for the KKKaren’s who sat on the bench. After they were exposed for their shitty behavior, they decided to whine about it, trying to make themselves out to be victims – the hateful shrews
Baud
This is so weird to me since you’ve been going there for three years. I mean, I can get a group of cis people saying that they want to exclude trans people — I’m not on board with it, but I’m familiar with the mindset. But if they haven’t been excluding trans people, why are they up in arms over the more inclusive name for the group?
Baud
@Fake Irishman: A great many of these laws are unconstitutional, even with the current makeup of the Supreme Court. But litigation carries risk and it takes time to get resolution, so the red states push forward to terrorize their citizens in the interim.
CaseyL
I hope the show openings go absolutely great!…and definitely hope your support group doesn’t betray its very reason for existing, to assuage a bunch of insecure cranks.
tommyspoon
Best of luck for the meeting!
RedDirtGirl
Thanks for another great post!
Weapon X
@Dorothy A. Winsor: The most pathetic aspect is that one of those harridans is the Montana speaker’s mother. Yep, the speaker called in his fucking mommy to keep the bad trans lady off the bench.
rikyrah
My lips are so pursed reading that. Absolutely vile and disgusting.
Parfigliano
Those bitches have names. They should be exposed. Probably have kids too some of whom probably not down with moms bench bullshit.
planet eddie
@Baud: The last time I was at a meeting, the concern was that men would use this as an excuse to infiltrate the group. They were only okay with a certain kind of trans person, but when I brought a pre-op trans woman to the group, there was some general freakout because she “was a man.”
It was essentially revealed that the reason I and some other nonbinary folks were acceptable was that they didn’t really see us as anything other than masculine women. Once we actually challenged that by changing the name… some masks were dropped.
Vickie Feminist
Erica Huggins said, “Don’t let the fascists pluck at your heartstrings. Remember their lives are devoid of the love we share. ”
Our memories are of welcoming not excluding.
As a therapist, I know the challenges young adults face in their personal lives when they consider transition. It’s essential that we offer all the support we can. And that goes for supporting our adult blog buddies too.
Sister Golden Bear
@Other MJS: Yes, yes it was the Republicans excuse.
Worth noting they were not only silencing Rep. Zephyr but also preventing her from representing her 11,000 constituents. Since she represents a liberal area, I assume Republicans considered that a two-fer.
stinger
I knew about the Snowflake Mommas gleefully protecting their legislator babies from Rep. Zephyr. Didn’t know about the Blue Bench Brigade — thanks for that ray of healthful, disinfecting sunshine.
The Florida law is most likely targeting Medicaid funds, which are state-administered, rather than Medicare. Hateful, either way. Surely it will be overturned on appeal — I have to believe it.
In my state we are busy destroying public schools and putting teens to work, so there hasn’t been as much time to hate on the non-cis. I expect that will come, if we can’t turn over our legislature pretty soon. Thank you for the unpleasant work of corralling these news reports, planet eddie, and I wish you success with your recovery group and your shows. It’s great that you have such creative outlets!
Sister Golden Bear
@planet eddie: Unfortunately, that sounds like an all-too-familiar fight, especially the “we’ll tolerate trans woman/non-binary folks only as long as they conform to our cis-het norms of what a woman should look like.”
Baud
@planet eddie: Thanks for the explanation. Is the reaction all based on the person’s appearance as masculine or feminine, or did the pre-ops vs. post-ops status matter?
Alison Rose
God, fuck every single one of those women taking the bench from Zooey. What a bunch of petty, vindictive, immature wastes of skin. This is the type of person who never progressed mentally beyond high school, and I guarantee those women made other kids’ lives hell back then, just for fun, just like they’re doing now. The whole lot of them don’t have as much worth or value as Zooey does in her little finger.
I’m so sorry for what you’re dealing with, eddie, both in your recovery group and in society as a whole. This shit in Florida is horrifying beyond belief. The part of family values wanting to legalize kidnapping children from happy supportive families. And every single person who voted for the politicians who push shit like this is just as monstrous as those they elected.
(BTW – do you prefer your name to be written in all lowercase as it is in your nym here, or should it be Eddie?)
Roger Moore
@Fake Irishman:
The aspect that really concerns me is the part about Florida courts being allowed to ignore custody determinations made in other states. It’s promising parents that if they don’t want their child to receive gender affirming care, they can kidnap them to Florida and the state government will give them legal protection. It’s a direct attack on trans kids throughout the country.
planet eddie
@Baud: I think it’s really just some of the older women who were uncomfortable with trans people in the first place seeing their moment to take the group back to its “original purpose.”
It’s very challenging because alcoholism and addiction affect trans people significantly, and it is very difficult to find trans-friendly places to get sober. When I bring this up, one of the women in the group just spat at me to go start my own group instead of co-opting women’s spaces.
It’s crazy because I know it’s not the overwhelming sentiment of the group, but it’s very hard to manage walking into that meeting knowing that I’m rolling the dice on whether or not I will be discriminated against that day.
planet eddie
@Alison Rose: I enjoy lower-case, but I don’t really care! I usually sign my name lower case these days. Thanks for asking :)
Gretchen
@rikyrah: where did they whine about it? I hope they were made uncomfortable.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
Thank you for this post, Eddie. I’m so grateful that you are posting to the front page here regularly.
Trans rights are human rights!
Alison Rose
@planet eddie: ☺️
Irishweaver
@Fake Irishman: Since Medicare is a federal program in its entirety, I was struck by the same thought — the state couldn’t dictate its coverage. Maybe they mistook Medicare for Medicaid?
Baud
@planet eddie: I’m sorry you have to deal with this. I’m glad to hear that you think the majority of your group is supportive.
planet eddie
@Roger Moore: YES! It will hurt trans kids with a transphobic relative too, if grandma or Uncle Bob gets it in their head that the parents are harming their child. It’s also really scary for someone who is a parent who is already out as trans or comes out later in like (I know a lot of folks who transitioned in their 30s-40s) because if the other parents isn’t supportive, they could kidnap the child to FL.
Every angle of these laws is meant to keep people closeted and afraid.
planet eddie
@Baud: Yes, but the people who are opposed are very vocal, and they show up at EVERY meeting ready to fight. I think that’s exactly what we’re seeing on a macro level in this country. People don’t want to have to fight all the time, and so they get compassion fatigue of fighting against the haters who have the time and energy to keep showing up. Sigh…
Roger Moore
@planet eddie:
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing. I don’t know what to do in your case, but you might want to try talking to one of the people who you get along with to see if you can get them to stand up for you. Having an ally who is willing to step up to defend you is the most likely thing to get them to back down.
narya
If you want an additional group (it’s online rather than in person), I can hook you up w/ a friend; I’m pretty sure the group would be welcoming of you given what I know of my friend.
On a different note, I’ve been reading Juno Dawson’s “Her Majesty’s Royal Coven” and I’ve been thinking of you the whole time. I don’t know your reading tastes, but I’ve been liking it a lot.
Good luck, planeteddie . . .I’m so glad you’re here.
Edited to make it clear that the GROUP would be welcoming.
mvr
@planet eddie: Thanks for the good news part of the posting above and sorry for the bad news in your own life. That’s got to be exhausting. I hope it all resolves well.
Alison Rose
Regarding the bill, I’ve read a couple articles about it and maybe I missed this, but: Would parents even be able to contact or see their children, if they were taken from them? Would there be visitations, or would it literally be “your kids do not exist to you anymore”? And also, I assume the kids would be placed in foster care. Well, having had many friends and acquaintances who have been through the foster care system, I know it is not always a good situation, and that some homes can be abusive. So what happens if a child is placed in an abusive home? Especially since these are trans kids, and they’ll clearly be placed with transphobic foster parents. What if the abuse goes beyond “we won’t use your proper pronouns and you have to wear this kind of clothing” to physical abuse? IANAL but couldn’t the parents of that child sue the state for intentionally putting their kid in harm’s way?
And I know that telling people “just move” is usually bullshit, but in this case, I feel like we need something akin to abortion funds to help raise money for families who do want to move.
AJ of the Mustard Search and Rescue Team
Thank you for another awesome post eddie! I hope the group conscience is for inclusion and broadening the hand of recovery 🙏🏻
I’m cis but have been getting a lot of good recovery love from Zoom mtgs the last few months. Not the same for sure but I’m still v grateful.
Hope your shows go great. Ty for taking your time to post and share 💖
brendancalling
My child came out as trans. I’ll kick the ass of any motherfucker that messes with my kid.
Other MJS
Manspreading as allyship. 😁
satby
eddie, I hope everyone reading today pledges (to themselves) to show up and support the trans community at events, legislative sessions, municipal meetings, wherever. Because allies need to get as active, loud, and physically present as the haters are. In the long run they’re going to lose, but here and now they are terrorizing families and that can’t stand.
Lobo
One thing to realize is that bigots are bigots. Just because you fight for one group(usually the group you identify with) does not exempt you from being a bigot, it just makes you self interested. You fight for all or you are really fighting for none.
We see echoes of the past here. The MT scenes are reminiscent of the early days of integration. The Florida bill reminds of us of when Native children were taken from families and put in boarding schools. As someone said, history does not repeat, but rhymes.
Ohio Mom
There was an interesting article in the NYT the other day about the takeover of the Montana state legislatiure by a fundamentalist family — the dad and two grown children are all serving, it’s the father’s wife at the end of the bench in that photo of the bench squatters — I wish I knew how to do a gift link for that article.
Montana is twisted version of Margaret Mead’s observation that change is created by small groups of dedicated people. One thing the article did not explore is whether this family has financial backing from national right wing organizations or big money individuals. I bet yes, the question is exactly which ones.
The comments section was full of people from Montana saying this isn’t the Montana they know, their state had always had sort of a libertarian ethos before, a spirit of live-and-let-live. Which is how my cousin who married into a Great Falls family has described her adopted state.
rikyrah
@Roger Moore:
Another bit of proof that state’s rights is, and has always been bullshyt, because they always want to impose their way on the entire country.
rikyrah
@Gretchen:
After the picture of them got out on Twitter, and the Twitter Detective Agency went to work to find out who those hate-filled bytches were and found them.
rikyrah
@planet eddie:
Ready to spread their hate. You are right about that.
karen marie
Will there be a pool for the date on which the bench is removed and a time limit imposed for standing at the lunch counter?
Tony Jay
@planet eddie:
Negativity and hostility is draining. Even when you know you’re in the right, even when you know you’re in the majority, the preference of most human beings is to avoid unnecessary confrontation, so I’d imagine being in that atmosphere for any length of time is a killing feeling.
Sad to say, but the likeliest endgame seems to be a huge blow-up moment where things are said that can’t be taken back and either the haters are shown the door (or the window, personal preference allowed) or the group ends up splitting.
May be time to start canvassing the opinions of the non-haters you know to lay the groundwork for when this happens.
Soprano2
The awful MO “rule” about transgender care for both children and adults has been put on hold by the court until July 11th. I think they’re trying to get around passing a law and then having it challenged as unconstitutional by doing it as a “policy” instead. The basics of it are, being transgender is really a mental illness and if only you had enough therapy you’d realize it and get better. It calls for 18 months of therapy before you can begin to access any care at all, and then continuing therapy plus a screening for autism because they also seem to believe that if you aren’t mentally ill you’re autistic, and that’s why you believe you’re transgender. It’s a gross and disgusting attempt to make transgender people flee the state.
Speaking of which, I have a cook who came out as non-binary about a year ago. They say they might have to leave the state if these “rules” are actually upheld, which would be too bad. They are my longest-employed person. Also, I’ve noticed that since they came out I’ve heard complaints about their cooking, which I never heard before. I’ve asked “is this really about the food, or personally about Rogue?”, and I’ve gotten mixed answers, but I think it’s mostly about them being “different” in this conservative area. Makes no difference to me as long as they show up and do their job. I’m more concerned that they leave work whenever their girlfriend calls; I’m going to ask my manager about that, because it’s not acceptable!
Sure Lurkalot
planet eddie, thanks for posting “the shit”, sadly, mostly bad, but then there’s Zooey and the Blue Bench Brigade pushing back the best they can. I wish you the best with your art, shows and recovery group (give ‘em hell, eddie!)
I have often recommended a podcast called EarHustle (started about life in San Quentin but has broadened its scope to other prisons and those now on the outside) and want to bring attention to the April 12 episode, “Do You Know Who I Am”, described thusly:
It’s well worth a listen IMHO.
Barbara
I’m sorry about your recovery group. I wonder if there is anyone that you can speak to who can crystallize why or what has prompted this request so that you (or others) might be able to speak to whatever the fear is, however unjustified, or if you can identify anything that seems to have changed, like the overall group dynamics or whether individuals have stopped participating. I don’t know what kind of recovery group it is, but in my own sojourn providing services to women in need, that is, victims of domestic abuse, I have discovered that many women with complex personal issues aren’t feminists and a fair share of those women really don’t want to sit in a room discussing the world with people like me who are.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
Hooray for the Blue Bench Brigade! It hasn’t escaped my notice that some of the Blue Benchers are graying. Just goes to show that you can’t assume that the olds are the opposition just like you can’t assume the youngs are the allies.
HinTN
@lowtechcyclist:
Yes, indeed. Thanks for the belly laugh. I needed it.
Hang in there, PE. Thanks for the post.
Jay
@planet eddie:
I don’t know where you are, but here, even back in the early 90’s we had, through the “deviant” community, friendly, support groups. For many, the hard part was finding them, but if you went to a Munch*, there was always somebody there who knew the support groups.
*Munch’s were “weekly brunches for the BDSM community, (predominately), lots of youth attended with a core of old farts,
O. Felix Culpa
@Other MJS: LOL. It’s nice to see manspreading put to good use.
realbtl
@Ohio Mom:
25 years here in Montana and I think what has happened is a lot of $ moved here recently from all the worst places. It used to be “don’t fuck with me and I won’t fuck with you. That has definitely changed.
Barbara
@Jay: I don’t speak for Eddie, obviously, but it seems really wrong for Eddie to have to separate from a group that they have actually found to be a good fit and supportive of their needs.
Dan B
@Baud: MSM and social media have been ramping up the rhetoric. The women in the support group are suddenly more agitated. They’re feeling threatened because they’re being frightened that trans people are pedophiles and sexual predators. At the same time there’s a daily arrest of a youth pastor. But propaganda triumphs over logic and rationality.
We’re fortunate at Balloon Juice to have people who bring reason and bring honest stories to us.
MazeDancer
Perhaps, your group would like to know that Smith College, which has been doing an outstanding job of educating women for 148 years, including well-known experts on women, alumnae Gloria Steinem and Betty Friedan, is completely open to transgender students.
Smith was founded to educate women. All women. Trans women are women, and 100% welcome at Smith.
lowtechcyclist
@Roger Moore:
Article IV, Section 1: “Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State.”
Not sure how that gets enforced, but I would imagine the Federal government would have to step in.
Sister Golden Bear
While this was written for fellow trans people, it’s appropriate for allies too.
M31
those women do make me think of the lunch counter sit-ins from the 50s — they have the same smug little shit look that the white people pouring ketchup on the black protesters had
Sister Golden Bear
@Sister Golden Bear: Apparently my last post triggered the naughty words filters. Could a mod set it free? Thanks.
TriassicSands
An article in the Post today says that polling reveals a majority of Americans support the Republican legislation to deny medical care to trans children.
I guess those people must think the trans people are simply pretending.
The long run may take a lot longer than the surprisingly rapid turnaround on the question of same sex marriage.
Roger Moore
@rikyrah:
Yep. They want power to be at whatever level of government they happen to control. That’s what’s behind the “constitutional sheriffs” movement, which has to be the biggest pile of crap out there. I will start supporting the constitutional sheriffs movement as soon as they can show me where sheriffs are mentioned in the US constitution.
kalakal
planet eddie. Good luck with your art projects. I admire your strength in being able to keep going whilst having to put up with malice every day. I wish with all my heart you didn’t have that bile to deal with. And that vile hate at a recovery group of all places.
Thank you for posting, I learn a lot from your posts.
The photos of those smug, hate filled creatures in Montana make me want to spit.
MomSense
@planet eddie:
I’m so sorry you have to deal with that BS. It makes it tough to ever let your guard down and that’s exhausting.
Sending support and strength to you.
also too fuck those KKKarens hogging the bench and the Florida fascists.
WaterGirl
@Sister Golden Bear: The only word in our personal BJ spam filter is the c-word.
That’s it.
Your post must have read to the algorithm as spam.
lowtechcyclist
@planet eddie:
I hate to be the skunk at the party, but I have to say I can kinda see their point.
There are a lot of things that women don’t feel comfortable talking about in the presence of men. So if you bring someone into the group that they perceive as a man, that’s going to make them less comfortable in sharing what’s going on inside them. And this is a recovery group, they need to be able to do that. You can tell them that they shouldn’t feel uncomfortable, but that doesn’t really work.
TriassicSands
Which seems like it would be a huge problem in the UK where that word has none of the disapproval in has earned in the U.S. and appears quite often in British films.
I don’t know the history in the U.K. but in the U.S. the word has, in my lifetime anyway, been using almost exclusively as the most offensive way to describe a woman. Hearing the word used in British films it seems to have a meaning and application much more like the word prick has in the U.S.
Does anyone know the usage history in the U.K.
Note: c-word? I immediately thought of “conservative.”
satby
@TriassicSands: It’s still a new, not clearly understood issue to most people. They don’t have gender dysphoria so they can’t imagine how it feels. But as long as WE support our friends and relatives to live their lives authenticity, just like the PFLAG people did to support their gay family members, I believe the situation will change.
Dan B
The Florida kidnapping law is one tiny step away from taking LGBTQ kids away and taking kids away from LGBTQ parents. The authors of this bill probably realized that there are many more LGB than trans kids so this is a trial balloon. After LGB families who’s next (hint, mixed race?).
Omnes Omnibus
@TriassicSands: The poll data the Post uses does not support that assertion. People seem to support trans rights overall.
Msb
@ planet eddie
best wishes for your shows.
As to your recovery group, I fear I agree with Jay. A dedicated single person or group who wants to dominate will often split or destroy a larger group. Could be a very good idea to talk to the good guys about what you all want to do. Might be best to leave that haters to hug their hatred. Best of luck in securing a good outcome.
I’m a bit shocked that it’s gotten so bad already. My 12-step group would not tolerate members dissing other members during meetings.
Sister Golden Bear
@WaterGirl: I figured it was that word, and edited it, but it still stayed in moderation.
Tony Jay
@TriassicSands:
Yes, ‘Conservative’ is getting on for being the most offensive word in the English language, though personally I get lockjaw more when I hear ‘Centrist’.
As to the other C-word, it’s pretty harsh, but I’ve also never heard it directed towards a woman. In my experience it’s solely a word directed at men, by men, and most of the time it’s said in a teasingly friendly manner to friends.
Aimed at someone you don’t like, though, and said with proper bite, it’s instant fighting talk.
CarolPW
@TriassicSands: No – most Americans have a problem with gender identity but oppose laws that discriminate against transgender people. They have a problem with the concept of being transgender, but have no problem determining discrimination is unfair.
ETA look at the graphs, and beware the double negative in the second one.
Miss Bianca
@TriassicSands:
Wait…that poll you cited says that a majority believes that gender is assigned to biological sex at birth, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re down with the Republican jihad against trans people.
@Omnes Omnibus:
Oh, good. I was wondering whether I was the only person who was thinking, “wait a minute…”
Roger Moore
@Sister Golden Bear:
I think once your message is in moderation it will stay there even if you edit it to remove offending terms. This is to keep spammers from repeatedly editing their text until it slips by the filter.
Omnes Omnibus
@CarolPW:
@Miss Bianca:
I think a lot of people are simply weirded out by the concept of being trans. I mean, I don’t/can’t fully understand it myself. I am cis and I can’t really imagine not have the outside of my body not match my self-conception. That, however, is immaterial. We are all trying to be the best and truest version of ourselves (or should be). That means if people need transform their bodies, then they should be able to do that. The rest of us need to stand up to support them where we can or, if we can’t bring ourselves to that, mind our own fucking business.
Thank you for coming to my TEDTalk.
RaflW
As someone who has been in a 12 step group that was started by gay men several decades ago when interest groups were still kind of new in recovery world, I know our group struggled with how to try to keep the group identity as a safer space for gay men while also ‘carrying the message to the still suffering alcoholic’, and welcoming newcomers who may not have even noticed that the group – not defined as closed, so in effect and in fact open to anyone – could be welcoming of difference.
Can’t say it was ever really resolved that well. A few queer (and even fewer cis-het women) have attended for spells, but the group really stayed functionally gay cisgender men.
About the time of the pandemic, I moved to a different meeting that is, as far as I can tell, fully mixed. Due to geography and our neighborhood demographics, mixed really does mean it in terms of orientation and at least a bit in terms of gender expression and identity. Still largely white, but again, that’s our local pool (mostly).
Eddie, I hope your group can focus on how to welcome the newcomer, and in recovery, we’re all (IMO) newcomers in the sense that today is all we have. Yesterday is gone, and tomorrow is unknown, this 24 hours is what we can do something about. Peace.
Brachiator
This bullshit fries my nerves. The bigots prevent Zephyr from being able to fully represent her (their) constituents. This is an act of incredible bigotry and malice and the media and public seem to just shrug it off as “tough luck.”
TriassicSands
There are some problems here.
First, Post headlines are routinely horrendous and often don’t reflect the content of the article in question.
Second, the opening statement…
…refers to children, not “trans rights overall.”
The actual headline…
…is typical of so many Post headlines in being misleading, since there is a difference between supporting all GOP trans-related legislation and that directed at medical care for children. I’m not arguing that the child-related legislation should be supported, but that it isn’t surprising if people view that differently from legislation that simply seeks to suppress and erase trans people altogether.
It’s not surprising if Americans, not exactly known for critical thinking, haven’t stopped to think about the effects that denial of care can have on younger people. They probably figure that there will always be time later to do something if once the children have grown up, they decide to move forward with care.
This is one reason why i have complained endlessly to the Post about their headlines. Many people never read beyond the headlines and if a headline is misleading, that is the message the almost reader will take away.
As for the quote I cited above:
That reflects a simplistic belief than may or may not have anything to do with whether those same people think it is OK to discriminate against someone for not being cisgender.
My biggest concern is my lack of confidence in the “average American,” who is not well-informed and easily manipulated.
Darkrose
@Jay: I remember those days! The original Burgermunch was in Palo Alto, but the concept spread as ASB grew. The Boston-area one was usually held at the Cambridgeside Galleria mall food court; lots of food options, public transit accessible, and plenty of seating.
…and that was 20 years ago. I am an old.
TriassicSands
@Miss Bianca:
See my previous reply to Omnes Omnibus. Post headlines are often horrendous and designed simply to get people to click on them. But often people don’t click, they assume the headline tells them all they need to know and move on.
The opposition described in the article seems to be concerned primarily with legislation concerning medical treatment for children, It is not about discriminating generally against trans people. But when you present a headline like the one in this article, people who are wavering may find support for the impulse they have that is more generally unfavorable to trans people.
Washington Post headlines are routinely journalistic malpractice.
kalakal
@Omnes Omnibus:
A very good point.
I can, I think, to a limited degree, imagine this.
Basically when I was about 12 my weight ballooned but my height stayed the same and from the ages of about 12-17 I resembled a beach ball on legs. Teenagers can be right bastards and I had a pretty horrible time, I was at an English boarding school, so no escape. At 17 or so I suddenly gained about a foot in height and suddenly had a “standard” body shape.
However I’ve never really been able to see my self objectively, I always view myself as being overweight when in fact I’m pretty skinny. I’ve been borderline anorexic, still have dental problems from bulemia, all someone has to do is make a remark, jokingly or not about my weight and I won’t eat for 3 days. I have a very problematic attitude to food generally.
I can only begin to imagine how it must be to feel that your gender does not match you, heaven knows I’ve found the weight thing bad enough.
Absa-fucking-lutely
TriassicSands
Oh how I wish that were true. Looking at today’s Republicans, the opposite seems to be true.
I wrote this earlier to @satby, but I didn’t hit Post Comment:
Omnes Omnibus
@TriassicSands:
I said “or should be.” Didn’t I?
TriassicSands
One clarification: My generally low opinion of the “average American” refers to the voter, not the person.
Darkrose
@TriassicSands: I can’t find it on Twitter at the moment, but Erin Reed had a look at the article, noting that it’s using data from 6 months ago. Kind of weird that they’re reporting it as if it’s recent.
TriassicSands
Absolutely, and I agree with you. It’s just that the number who aren’t trying is so distressingly large.
TriassicSands
@Darkrose:
That is weird, especially since so much has happened in the last six months with Republicans blasting away with a fire hose of anti-trans legislation.
The Post won’t, but they should issue a clarification or correction. However, misleading headlines have become standard practice at the Post.
Brachiator
@TriassicSands:
I figured that most people broadly accepted the idea that gender fluidity was possible. I don’t recall much discussion about this at all until fairly recently. Even the claims that bring gay was a lifestyle choice seemed to die down.
The “must protect innocent unborn babies” seemed to rapidly expand into “we must also protect possible trans children” from evil liberals.
From the start of what? Various hormones fire off at various times up to puberty and beyond, shaping our bodies and helping to define our selves and our desires.
TriassicSands
@Brachiator:
That just reflects what I wrote about a simplistic response. It’s not as though polling encourages people to think hard about their answers, but on issues as important as this (fundamental decency and human rights), people should have given it serious thought already.
Darkrose
@TriassicSands: Hopefully this will work:
https://twitter.com/ErinInTheMorn/status/1654585093707689986?s=2
This is the thread with Erin pointing out the problems, and the WaPo writer trying to gaslight her about how it’s totally normal to post polls with six-month-old data and only mention that at the bottom of the piece.
WaterGirl
@Sister Golden Bear: Ah, that explains it! I had searched your comment for that word and hadn’t found it.
RaflW
@Brachiator: It’s like the media have accepted the frame of “how dare urban Montanans be so brash and un-western to elect a trans person”.
Frankly, our whole United States Senate is set up in a way that says urban, liberal voters are simply worth much less than rural, conservative voters.
If a core institution of our (putative) democracy can basically say that one Wyoming voter is worth 68 Californians, then of course Montana GOP legislators are going to think the entire city of Missoula is null and void in terms of representation. Rural cons are 68X more powerful than urban libs.
It’s complete bigotry and bullshit. But I can see from whence it springs.
Gvg
@Alison Rose: the legislature is nuts. You knew that but let me explain from a former foster mom in Florida perspective. There aren’t enough foster homes. We pay more taking care of the kids than we are reimbursed because in the past some people used the system as a way to make a living while starving the kids so now their are strict rules in place. We do it because we care for the kids. But there are not enough who do it. There are no modern orphanages to hold them. So when a child is removed a case worker has to call and call until they find a foster family who thinks they can take one more (or 6 more) they can stay in an office with a crying child or several all night calling every listing that isn’t full, or at least not to far past full. Then they start calling the next counties (who do the same thing if they need to) this is to be avoided because then you have more complicated court arrangements and required visitations not to mention the case worker has to drive further every week. Lawyers for the case have to be selected and sometimes guardian ad litem. The agency has to arrange Medicare coverage, schooling, and sometimes daycare too. It costs money.
Since there are a limited number of homes to place in and since Florida law does not permit them to remove children they can’t house, they have to be selective in which ones they actually remove to be the ones that are in their judgement the most at risk right away. This tends to mean the most violent or poor judgement homes, not the ones where parents needs some counseling or help learning parenting skills. Caseworkers end up doing a lot of teaching and referring to training.
The most common placement is a relative who passes a background check and shows they can stand up to a parent who has some bad habit (drug abuse or drinking for example)
Quite a few foster and or would be adoptive parents in my training were doing it to get custody of a specific child. Their kids best friend or a nephew or a neighbors kid they finally could help.
This legislature doesn’t know any of this, doesn’t care and the people who make it work and run all the time are not going to be able to deal with it. I suspect they mostly won’t act, or will investigate then say no risk but I really don’t know. There are ALOT of other laws this will conflict with so I don’t think it will be quite as easy as DeSatin thinks. Also there are a lot of lawyers involved in the foster system. They know a lot. They may all have different opinions but I bet they won’t be quiet.
JAFD
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: Us old folk are always looking out for opportunities to do good while sitting down ;-)
Before my heart attack, was frequent blood donor. “How else”, I said, “can you benefit humanity while lying down and taking a nap. And ge cookies afterwards.”
Matt Smith
@Sure Lurkalot: Thanks for the tip on that podcast.
eddie – Sorry to hear the anti-trans folks have brought their crap to one of your community spaces. I hope the debate/decision isn’t too taxing, that you get lots of support from lots of people, and that this means more than whatever hate the haters put out. Good luck with it.