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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Open Thread: Life Expectancy in America – Chicken or the Egg?

Open Thread: Life Expectancy in America – Chicken or the Egg?

by | 137 Comments

This post is in: 

Red states, blue states – and life expectancy.

Cause or effect?  Chicken or the egg?

Either way, if the red states voted blue, you can bet that poverty and health care issues would be addressed, both of which certainly have an impact on life expectancy.

Open thread.

Reader Interactions

137Comments

  2. 2.

    Parfigliano

    Good.  Now die quicker.  They will never change only double down.  History shows this.

  3. 3.

    Jerzy Russian

    Wow indeed.  Just eyeballing, but I suspect some of the reddest areas in the west are on reservations where often the lack of resources is crippling.  On the other hand, for a state like Alabama it comes down to state government at some point.

  4. 4.

    mrmoshpotato

    Apparently funding hospitals (and accepting Medicaid expansion) is good for people and their ability to keep living!

    Hoocoodanoodled!

  5. 5.

    cain

    Their plan is to send their unfortunates over to the blue states to help improve their numbers.

  6. 6.

    Matt McIrvin

    Notice, some of the red states are doing quite well. They’re the really white ones (that are not Appalachian). And, yeah, those red spots on the map are Native reservations.

    What it really looks like is a map of poverty.

  8. 8.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    One interesting thing I read recently is that Latinos tend to have higher life expectancies than non-Hispanic whites, known as the Hispanic paradox

  9. 9.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    Barbara Kingsolver has won the Pulitzer for DEMON COPPERHEAD. That book impressed the heck out of me. I still think about what it shows of poverty in America.

  11. 11.

    Jeffro

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: I tried that one and just couldn’t get into it, but good for her!  It was highly recommended by many so clearly it was a Fro problem, not a Kingsolver problem.  =)

  13. 13.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): I think the racial distribution of suicide is fascinating: Black, Hispanic and Asian people have much lower suicide rates than non-Hispanic white people… and Native Americans. That might have more to do with availability of guns than anything else.

  14. 14.

    Roger Moore

    @Jerzy Russian:

    On the other hand, for a state like Alabama it comes down to state government at some point.

    Yes and no.  Yes, the state could be doing better with the resources it has, but Alabama is also extremely poor and lacks the resources of many of the better off places.  Very importantly, a lot of the poor places have almost always been poor.  Yeah, there were some very rich people in the antebellum South, but their wealth was built on the backs of extreme poverty for everyone else.

    One place I find really fascinating in Texas.  You see some of the expected blue spots around the big cities, but the Rio Grande valley- a poor rural area- does pretty well also.  It would be worthwhile looking to see what they’re doing differently from other poor rural areas.

  15. 15.

    Elizabelle

    @Jeffro:   That has happened to me sometimes.  Which means:  pick it up again in a year or two, and give it a go then.

  16. 16.

    Soprano2

    Someone on that Twitter thread posted a map of rates of obesity and said it’s a lot like that, which is true to some extent. Probably lack of health care and access to grocery stores with good food and places to exercise more than anything else, although I notice in MO the St. Louis, KC, Springfield and Columbia/Jeff City areas are blue, everything else is on the bottom part of the scale.

  18. 18.

    bbleh

    @Matt McIrvin: or perhaps more precisely, unmitigated poverty.  There are some pretty poor counties in Cal that still are definitely on the blue side.  And there are some relatively wealthy counties in the deep and border South that are very red indeed.  The difference, I suspect, is that the state helps out much more in the former than in the latter.

  20. 20.

    Eolirin

    @Roger Moore: If Alabama (and the others) was not getting in the way, the federal government would be doing more to make sure they had the resources they need. It’s not just a local issue, it’s also how they poison national policy.

  21. 21.

    Shalimar

    The one state I know on a county-by-county level is Alabama.  The worst life-expectancy counties are the ones with the highest percentage of black residents.  This is not a coincidence.

  23. 23.

    Betty Cracker

    @eclare: I loved Poisonwood but could not get into Demon. Will try it again later; could be I just wasn’t in the right frame of mind.

  25. 25.

    West of the Rockies

    That’s weird… it’s almost like places with minimal social safety networks, diminished education outcomes, and a steady diet of rage, fear, and resentment do poorly.

  26. 26.

    Suzanne

    @Matt McIrvin:

    What it really looks like is a map of poverty. 

    Also a map of obesity levels. And highest level of education achieved. Etc etc etc.

  27. 27.

    Formerly disgruntled in Oregon

    This map shows generations of wealth inequality adding up. It shows the persistence of poverty, concentrated in specific locations. It shows how racism and exclusion have perpetuated that poverty.

    It shows a lot. Don’t oversimplify it by tying it up in relatively recent electoral politics.

  28. 28.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    For me, Demon Copperhead illustrates the poverty we’re talking about in this thread. It’s set in Appalachia, and includes the fentanyl epidemic.

  30. 30.

    Baud

    Notably, the South has the largest bloc of states that have refused to expand Medicaid.

  32. 32.

    Bobby Thomson

    Pretty clear correlation with some noticeable outliers (e.g., Detroit, Nebraska, Kansas)

  35. 35.

    cain

    @Matt McIrvin: I also think that for some demographics they have support systems. When you’re living in places that experience racism – I think you form natural safe places (eg black churches).  I’m not sure that applies to native american reservations however.

  36. 36.

    cain

    @Baud: the south has a lot of things they refuse to do. We’ve really did them an injustice when we didn’t do our due diligence of forcing them to conform after the civil war.

  37. 37.

    Elizabelle

    USA!  USA!  14 year old girl shot in the head on Sunday while playing hide and seek on a neighbor’s property;  thankfully, her injuries are not life threatening.  Thankfully, the shooter is in a heap of trouble. In jail with a $300,000 bond, for starters.  He shot at the “shadows” as they were fleeing his property.

    WaPost:

    A Louisiana man has been charged after police said he shot a 14-year-old girl in the back of the head after she had been playing hide-and-seek on his property.

    The shooting occurred Sunday morning in Starks, La., a rural town of fewer than 700 people near the border with Texas. Officers from the Calcasieu Parish Sheriff’s Office received reports of a shooting at a property there, the office said in a news release. When they arrived, they found the girl suffering from a gunshot wound. She was taken to a hospital with injuries that weren’t life-threatening, the release said.

    The release said children had been playing hide-and-seek in the area and hiding on David V. Doyle’s property. Doyle, 58, told officers he got his gun after seeing “shadows outside his home.”

    Doyle “then advised detectives he went back outside and observed people running away from his property, at which time he began shooting at them and unknowingly hit the girl,” according to the release.

    The incident is the latest in a string of U.S. shootings this year in which young people have been shot — some fatally — after mistakenly being in the wrong location.

    Police arrested Doyle and charged him with aggravated battery, four counts of aggravated assault with a firearm and illegal discharge of a firearm. He remained in custody Tuesday morning at the Calcasieu Correctional Center, with bond set at $300,000.

    Last month, four similar shootings occurred in one week.

  38. 38.

    JoyceH

    I recently saw a news item about one of those Deep South states, was either Alabama or Mississippi, where they had just passed legislation changing the child labor laws to allow children as young as 14 to work in “roofing, construction, and demolition”. What could possibly go wrong?

  39. 39.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    Since it’s an open thread: it seems we have some neighbors who don’t like us.

    Every time we sit on our back porch, Mama and Papa Cardinal are hovering around chirping nonstop at us and generally complaining about our presence.

    I mean, I’m sorry I look like a threat to the nest and I feel bad I’m upsetting your equanimity, but it’s my porch and I’m going to sit there on nice days.

    Also it’s kind of hard to feel very threatened by those tiny little chirps.

  40. 40.

    Elizabelle

    @JoyceH:  At least it keeps them from playing hide and seek in their neighbor’s yards!

    re the 14 year old girl shot:  CNN has the story.  Yep.  The shooter is a white guy.  No info on the vic, yet.

  41. 41.

    Steeplejack

    @Elizabelle:

    [. . .] observed people running away from his property, at which time he began shooting at them [. . .].

    Complete asshole. I hope they throw the book at him.

  44. 44.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @Elizabelle: I’m guessing so. I was just outside in the yard with the dog and gradually realized I had both of them chirping at me from a couple of feet away, in the tree I was standing next to.

    I don’t see a nest but I guess that’s where it is.

  47. 47.

    sdhays

    @Elizabelle: I’d like the people who bitch about parents being too protective nowadays to appreciate that children can be shot by raving lunatics at just about any random location in this god-forsaken shithole of a country.

    Can’t go to the mall – it might be someone’s day to shoot it up.

    Can’t play in the neighborhood – the neighbor might decide they’re a threat and start shooting before asking questions.

    Can’t drive around – you might get lost and someone shoots at you when you try to turn around.

    Can’t stop at the grocery store – if you mistakenly head towards someone else’s car, they might shoot you because…I don’t know.

  48. 48.

    Elizabelle

    @Steeplejack:  I think they are going to.  (1). Shooting someone running away. (2).  Telling the detectives you shot “unknowingly.”  Nope.  You’re culpable, guy.

    There were only three houses on that deadend rural road.  One was the child’s; one was some relatives of hers; one was Mr. Stand Your Yard.

  49. 49.

    Baud

    @sdhays:

    The one silver lining is that these people are being arrested and charged.  No stand your ground excuses.

  51. 51.

    Elizabelle

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:  Some mockingbirds restricted my access to my own patio last year.  I was so proud they’d chosen me.

    They are around the tree now, and I fervently hope they will nest again.  There is a new nest, way way up in the tree.  I’d thought it might be robins.  That nest must be an amusement park ride in the wind.

  52. 52.

    gene108

    @Parfigliano:

    Good. Now die quicker. They will never change only double down. History shows this.

    I have a feeling those with shorter life expectancy in places like AL, MS, and the South, in general, are African Americans and Hispanics.

    White Republicans aren’t going to live longer.

  53. 53.

    Betsy

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Where I am, I’ve seen studies that have found the longevity and good health of immigrant Latinx people is due to a combination of healthful traditional cooking and eating practices, strong familial and social ties, among other factors.

    Interestingly the protective effect on health declines with the number of years spent in this country. People slowly acquire American junk eating habits, then their health metrics worsen.

    wE’Re nUmBeR #1!!!

  55. 55.

    Roger Moore

    @Steeplejack:

    I hope they throw the book at him.

    I didn’t see an attempted murder charge, so they’re holding back a bit.  I remember when the standard approach for scaring people away from your property was rock salt rounds for a shotgun.  They’re unlikely to be lethal, but they do hurt like hell and advertise that the owner could go for something worse.

  56. 56.

    scav

    Target Practice Hide and Seek!  Classic traditional All-American traditional idyllic game of iconic childhood.  Run Dick Run!  See Jane Bleed!

  59. 59.

    Betsy

    @sdhays: And how funny, the same right wingers that bitch about overly protective parents raising little snowflakes are the first to blame parents for not keeping a tight leash on the kids.

    Some poor little gets hurt by a dangerous toy or defective product or mistaking a tide pod for a colorful candy or hit by a car while playing, they put it on “poor parenting, should have kept a better eye on your kid!!!” Fucking Puritans

  61. 61.

    Elizabelle

    @Soprano2:  So true about Nextdoor brain.  I got on the site to help with finding lost pets.  The paranoia is not appealing.

    @sdhays:   It’s too much.  That many guns cannot co-exist with a modern society.

    I actually think we are going to see more action than we think; I just don’t know when.  It’s now recognized as the public health danger it is.  People are fed up.

    We’re not one issue voters, but we’re sure not on the side of the gun lobby.

  63. 63.

    dmsilev

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:

    Every time we sit on our back porch, Mama and Papa Cardinal are hovering around chirping nonstop at us and generally complaining about our presence.

    I have hummingbirds that do the same thing. Which is kind of annoying since I also feed them. Show some gratitude!

  64. 64.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Elizabelle:

    observed people running away from his property, at which time he began shooting at them

    Well of course, they were clearly a threat. //

    Fuck guns.  I’m really getting to the point of believing there should be no such thing as private ownership of guns.  If you want to go deer hunting, you should be able to check out a rifle from the local Fish & Wildlife office, and return it when done.

  67. 67.

    trollhattan

    So today is SovietRussia Victory Day in which Vlad asserts to his adoring people (either before or after the ginormous Kremlin military parade Trump is so openly jealous of) that The West have forgotten all about how Soviet Union kicked Hitler until Hitler killed Hitler and instead of being grateful, today threaten, threaten, THREATEN peaceful Russia and thus, Ukraine attacked Russia and must be stopped. Go, Army!

    It’s all very gaslightish and aimed at Russian citizens and allies, only with the added feature of hundreds of thousands mangled or dead and whole cities obliterated into rubble.

    This fuckin’ guy.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65532088

  70. 70.

    Sure Lurkalot

    I’m just finishing up Poverty, By America, by Matthew Desmond. It’s an excellent analysis of causes and effects and explores solutions, which are basically choices we all need to make.

    Where it really hits home is its elucidation of how much largesse the government affords the non poor…mortgage deductions, college savings plans not to mention insufficient enforcement of tax collection and unearned income taxed at lower rates. When the ACA was being negotiated, some of my workmates were incredulous when I pointed out their employer based health insurance was subsidized by the government to the extent the premiums paid were untaxed as income and that their employers’ expensed.

  71. 71.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Betsy:

    In the multi-state red region where I live, it’s Black people dying early.

    I bet that’s earlier.  IME, even reasonably well-off white Southerners don’t last as long as people further north.  Crappy diet and lack of exercise lead to shorter lifespans, no matter what your income bracket.

  73. 73.

    John Revolta

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: One year about hmmm years ago some cardinals built a nest in the evergreen right next to my grandparents’ front porch. We couldn’t use the front door for about a month or so. I still have a very early memory of my grandfather getting divebombed by Papa Cardinal on the porch while I watched from the front yard………..

  74. 74.

    WaterGirl

    @Baud: I mean, really, who wouldn’t stand their ground and shoot to kill…

    Shadows. That. Are. Running. Away.

    [insert head-banging emoji here]

  75. 75.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Baud:

    Apparently, in some states, you can just shoot them if they’re bothering you.

    Or even if you just think they might bother you. Or if you just think they’re thinking about bothering you.

  76. 76.

    sdhays

    @Elizabelle: The Republican Party is actively arming drug gangs! And proud of it! And then they complain about crime from Mexico! Are you a criminal? The Republican Party wants to facilitate your acquisition of an insane arsenal of weapons. And then they want everyone else so despondent about the collapse in public safety that they make bad choices trying to protect themselves.

    I think Greg Abbott (for one) gets off every time someone gets shot in Texass. Literally. He’s clearly that depraved.

  78. 78.

    tokyokie

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    One interesting thing I read recently is that Latinos tend to have higher life expectancies than non-Hispanic whites, known as the Hispanic paradox

    The map confirms that finding. The heavily Hispanic Rio Grande Valley in Texas is all shades of blue. The other blue areas in Texas tend to be large urban areas.

  80. 80.

    John Revolta

    @trollhattan: I saw a a picture of the parade that featured one (1) 80-year-old tank rumbling along where the year before there were dozens……………….. where did all the tanks go, I wondered?

  81. 81.

    scav

    @WaterGirl: 14 year old shadows, mind.  Feminine 14 year old fleeing shadows.  Armed He-men need serious protection against those.

  82. 82.

    sdhays

    @lowtechcyclist: I can accept that rural areas may need a rifle or something to deal with dangerous wildlife, but they should be limited, highly regulated, and require licensing that has teeth regarding safe handling and storage.

    Otherwise, I agree – personal ownership of firearms should be illegal.

    I also want a pony. //

  83. 83.

    JoyceH

    Lisa Rubin reports on Twitter that the jury has reached a verdict in the Carrol trial – standing by…

  87. 87.

    Elizabelle

    @JoyceH:   Sounds like guilty to me.  But what do I know.

    Whichever way it goes, I salute EJ Carroll for her courage in going up against TFG.  (Eventually will be The Felon Guy.  Some day.)

    Not enough that he is shameless and notorious.  Hiding behind a presidency he did not deserve.  For years.

  88. 88.

    Scout211

    @JoyceH: 

    From MSNBC: @lawofruby reports that they will read the verdict at the top of the hour. She's surprised because the verdict form is complicated and the jury deliberated for under 3 hours. A quick verdict suggest swift unanimity in either direction.— Mueller, She Wrote (@MuellerSheWrote) May 9, 2023

  90. 90.

    Elizabelle

    Police report says girl was “transported to a hospital out of town to be treated for non-life threatening injuries.”

    Lucky she was not more badly injured.  Time is life.  I wonder how far they had to transport her.

  96. 96.

    Roger Moore

    @Scout211:

    This is worrying to me.  Determining whether someone is liable can be relatively quick; the slow part is determining damages.  If the verdict in a civil trial is really fast, it probably means either that they’re taking the defendant’s side or that they largely accept the damages claim of one side or the other.

  99. 99.

    Another Scott

    @Elizabelle: “non life threatening” can mean lots of things.  Head injuries can be very, very serious and not result in death.

    :-(

    Kinda like “mild” when it comes to COVID-19.  My understanding is that the usual clinical meaning is that it “wasn’t so bad as to require hospitalization”.  Could still be quite nasty, though.

    Here’s hoping she fully recovers.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  100. 100.

    Roger Moore

    @SpaceUnit:

    Can rulings in civil trials be appealed?

    Yes.  Any of the judge’s rulings can be appealed, which could result in a new trial if the ruling is overturned and considered to be important.  And the damages can be appealed if they’re considered to be disproportionate.

  101. 101.

    Elizabelle

    Background from the NY Times:

    The accusation at the heart of the trial that just ended in Manhattan federal court sounds like a classic criminal case — an alleged sexual assault in the dressing room of a luxury department store.
    But the jury of nine New Yorkers were not asked to decide if former president Donald J. Trump was guilty of raping the writer E. Jean Carroll as she testified he did in the mid 1990s. No criminal charges were ever brought.

    Instead, Ms. Carroll sued Mr. Trump for battery and defamation.
    That means the jury was asked to determine Mr. Trump’s “liability” — whether Mr. Trump is legally responsible for harming Ms. Carroll in ways that meet New York State’s definition of battery.
    The jurors began their deliberations just before noon on Tuesday. Their verdicts must be unanimous.
    To be found liable for battery, Ms. Carroll must clear a lower bar than the “beyond a reasonable doubt” standard of a criminal trial. Instead, jurors must find that the “preponderance of the evidence” supports Ms. Carroll’s claim to have been raped, sexually abused or forcibly touched by Mr. Trump, meaning the jury believes the accusation is more likely true than untrue. The jury must also decide how much to award Ms. Carroll in damages if they side with her.
    The jury also examined Ms. Carroll’s defamation claim, stemming from a 2022 post on Truth Social in which Mr. Trump called Ms. Carroll’s case “a complete con job” and “a Hoax and a lie.” The jurors have to decide if Mr. Trump knew what he was saying was false but said it anyway to meet a standard known as “actual malice.”
    Should the jurors find Mr. Trump liable for defamation, they will also assess what, if any, additional damages to award to Ms. Carroll.
    Ms. Carroll has not requested a specific amount of damages she is seeking for her battery claim. Last week, an expert witness called by Ms. Carroll testified it would cost as much as $2.7 million to run a campaign that would repair her reputation.

  103. 103.

    Elizabelle

    @Another Scott:  I am worried she will have vision problems, maybe terrible headaches, and — I hope not — cognitive issues.

    Time will tell.  Stupid, stupid action.   I wonder how young Mr. Yarl is doing, after his shooting injuries.

  106. 106.

    NotMax

    @Elizabelle

    Nope and double nope.

    They’ll be just as hitched regardless of what I’m wearing. And an hour and change drive back (mostly Palisades Parkway, which is bucolic) sounds like heaven to me; something never get to do in one go on this island.

  107. 107.

    Scout211

    Judge issues decorum warning for Carroll v. Trump verdict:"No shouting. No jumping up and down. No race for the door."— Adam Klasfeld (@KlasfeldReports) May 9, 2023

  109. 109.

    Elizabelle

    Rape, no.  Yes on sexual abuse.

    $2 million damage.

    So far, the only charge he has skated on is the rape charge.

  111. 111.

    Kirk

    @Roger Moore:

    but the Rio Grande valley- a poor rural area- does pretty well also.

    I suspect there is a lot of cross-border medical activity with Mexico happening here.

  112. 112.

    Elizabelle

    Defamation, Malice, injured.  Yes.

    $3 million 20 thousand so far.  Also 1.7 million for reputation repair

  113. 113.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Jury rules E Jean Carroll was not raped, was sexually abused and that trump injured her

    $2M in damages

    trump did defame her by calling her a liar

    statement was made with actual malice

    EJC was injured by trump’s malicious lies

    $1M damages, plus $1.7M in ‘repuational repair’

    trump was wanton and willful in his defamation

    punitive damages $280K

    per Katie Tur getting tweets from the courtroom

  114. 114.

    Elizabelle

    Punitive damages:  $280,000.

    So, heading towards $5 million for fines??

  115. 115.

    Elizabelle

    Congratulations to E. Jean Carroll.  Courage carried you through.

    Thanks to the jury, for making their decision.

  116. 116.

    David Anderson

    Look at the Upper Plains and the Mountain West (esp. Utah)…. very conservative/Republican but not huge drops in life expectancy. It is a Southern/Appalachian thing and where it is not Southern, it is still very racialized/minoritized.

  119. 119.

    Captain C

    @sdhays:

    The Republican Party is actively arming drug gangs! And proud of it! And then they complain about crime from Mexico!

    This would be a really good line of attack from a Democratic-aligned SuperPAC.  Point out how many easily-bought guns wound up in the cartels’ hands last (year/decade/whatever).

  120. 120.

    What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?

    @Matt McIrvin: Yes places like Nebraska…the thing about the deep South is there’s a large and very impoverished African American population and their life expectancy is probably so atrociously low it drags down the average for the entire State. I’m guessing a white Alabaman has about the same life expectancy as a white Nebraskan. Maybe not…leading a dissipated lifestyle of tobacco use and hard drinking is not unknown amongst the white population of the deep South so maybe they’re wrecking their health on a grander scale than the average Nebraskan but I’m guessing it’s mostly that they immiserate the black population to the point where they don’t live very long.

  121. 121.

    Tony G

    Needless to say, most of the short-life-span areas are in the former Confederate States of America.  More evidence that a culture of stupidity and hatred hurts everybody, not just the people who are the objects of the hatred.

  122. 122.

    Another Scott

    @David Anderson: I briefly poked around the GHDX data cited in the graph. There didn’t seem to be a quick way to spit out a similar graph, but I’d like to see:

    (Pre-COVID)
    1) Principal cause of death by county (heart disease, accidents, various cancers, “old age”, etc.)
    2) Obesity rates by county
    3) Smoking rates by county
    4) Per-capital alcohol consumption by county

    Stuff like that.

    Someone here remarked recently that a friend of theirs left the USA to retire in Central or South America and died a few months later from a US-survivable heart attack because they couldn’t get to a decent hospital in time.

    5) Time for county resident to reach nearest emergency room at a hospital.

    Like others, I suspect the biggest correlating factor will be per-capita or household income, but there’s obviously more going on. Like – is the local government representative of the people (do the realtors and car dealers run the local government (and prevent raising taxes) while the city’s water system crumbles??)?

    Thanks.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  123. 123.

    Roger Moore

    @SpaceUnit: ​
     

    Is it the same judge presiding over the current trial who has to grant the appeal?

    If you want the same judge to rethink an order, it’s more like a reconsideration; an appeal is always to a higher court. What often happens with an appeal, though, is that the higher court says a decision was made wrongly and then hands the case back to the original court with instructions to change the ruling and proceed from there.

  124. 124.

    Captain C

    @Roger Moore:

    Yes.  Any of the judge’s rulings can be appealed,

    IANAL but wouldn’t TFG have to put up a fairly substantial bond if he appeals?

  125. 125.

    Roger Moore

    @David Anderson:

    Even in Utah, though, there are some urban vs. rural discrepancies.  The counties around SLC and St. George do better than the more rural areas in the rest of the state.  Of course SLC is actually fairly liberal.  Utah would probably vote one or two Democrats to Congress if it weren’t so heavily gerrymandered.

  126. 126.

    Ken

    @JoyceH: changing the child labor laws to allow children as young as 14 to work in “roofing, construction, and demolition”. What could possibly go wrong?

    Rhetorical question, obviously, but I note that roofers are always way up there on the “most dangerous professions” lists. Much higher than police officer, for example (though crossing guards are higher than police).

    Snarkily, I’ll add that it will get even worse once they ban vaccines, and tetanus makes its comeback.

  127. 127.

    Ken

    @Elizabelle: There were only three houses on that deadend rural road.  One was the child’s; one was some relatives of hers; one was Mr. Stand Your Yard.

    I wonder if there’s some protective custody going on here.  At the least, Mr. SYY better hope he never has a heart attack in his front yard, in full view of his neighbors. They’ll bring lawn chairs and popcorn…

  128. 128.

    RevRick

    I suspect that you could replicate this map throughout the history of our country, even dating back to colonial times. The Puritans of New England, for all their faults, were very much of the attitude “we’re all in this together,” and put heavy emphasis on education, with the result that through much of the early days of our Republic those states excelled at most measures of civic wellbeing. Despite the fact that in real dollar terms Maine and Rhode Island and much of upper New Hampshire and Vermont are the poorest states in our nation, they fare much better than those regions where it’s everyone for themselves. Culture matters. And racism clearly kills.

  129. 129.

    CliosFanBoy

    Looking at the Virginia part of the map it looks like the worst areas are
    1. the poor Black areas in the SE
    2. The poor mountain white areas of the SW where coal used to be king.

    The best areas, Northern Virginia (natch), college towns, and cities will well–off suburbs and exburbs.

    So, there’s some correlation politically, but it looks mostly economic & education.

  130. 130.

    CliosFanBoy

    @RevRick:

      There have been several well-received pop-sociology books that talk about that. There were different settlement patterns among the various European colonies (not just English) and you can still see their influences today. Of course, there’s a multitude of other factors at play, but it is interesting.

  132. 132.

    Ohio Mom

    In college I took a class out of the urban planning department. The very first session was dedicated to the formation of the universe, our solar system and our Earth. Left me a bit befuddled, didn’t we all already know this and what did that have to do with the history and design of cities?

    It turned out that the professor was a big believer in geography and geology being destiny. That infamous red cresent across the South is where a certain type of soil — great for growing cotton — is found. And it’s there because of geologic history, the details of which I have long forgotten.

    That soil has just about dictated everything that has happened upon it — it’s the reason for cotton plantations, which is the reason slavery became so widespread and entrenched in the area, which is the reason for the area’s ongoing wealth disparity and poverty, discriminatory politics, and all the social ills often noted, from shorter lifespans, obesity, higher domestic violence and divorce rates, and the list goes on and on.

  135. 135.

    Bupalos

    @Parfigliano: This is a really sad response. The map is essentially a map of poverty. And yes, in conjunction with other factors, poverty can cause the kind of brain worms that allows backwards-looking, reality-denying, Trump-sucking Republicans to dominate.

  136. 136.

    Rebels Dad

    It’s not just policies that are driving this gap. The entire Gulf Coast from Houston to New Orleans is a clusterfuck of refineries and other petrochem infrastructure. Cancer rates are astronomical there, and of course state and local governments don’t care. It’s hitting home for me. I lost my oldest sister to laryngeal cancer in 2011, my oldest brother has colon cancer and non-Hodgkins lymphoma right now, and my remaining sister might have either leukemia or myeloma. All of them are in their late 50s and early 60s, and have lived the majority of their lives close to refineries. One more reason why I had to get tf out of Texas.

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