I know some of y’all are also Succession watchers. I don’t think the comments below about the fictional Election Night coverage on the show really count as spoilers, but if you haven’t seen the episode that aired on HBO last night, read on at your own risk.
The media mogul family in the series is loosely based on the horrid Rupert Murdoch clan and other news magnate dick-swingers of the past and present who’ve twisted politics for fun and profit. While viewing the latest episode, I experienced Election Night 2016 flashbacks. It wasn’t just me — here’s an excerpt of a recap in New York Magazine:
Armstrong’s diabolical script for “America Decides” — the irony dripping from that title is like the Xenomorph blood in the Alien movies — takes the past two presidential Election Nights as a template, which may explain the sinkhole that has opened up in the pit of your stomach. From 2016, Armstrong revives the spectacle of a far-right fringe candidate outperforming the polls and eking out a surprising, surreal victory against his liberal opponent. And from 2020, he reconfigures that startling moment when the Fox News Decision Desk got out in front of the competition to call Arizona for Joe Biden, which enraged a Trump campaign that was counting on the network to prevent reality from interfering with its narrative of reelection.
This Succession episode was surely in the can before CNN gave an increasingly unhinged and delusional Donald J. Trump a prime-time infomercial last week. Still, the timing was interesting.
Open thread!
Kristine
I haven’t watched the series–though it’s the sort of thing I’d like–but i may watch that episode just because of what I’m seeing on the internets.
WaterGirl
Thanks for the warning. I cannot relive that night. I have tears in my eyes at even the thought of it.
Jeffro
@WaterGirl: same here
It would be interesting to see the reaction of wingnuts across the land if a movie were made where a flaming liberal (who’s also oh by the way nuts and corrupt) manages to eke out an EC win against an obviously competent, experienced, moderate Republican who’d been slimed by the Democrats for 30+ years.
Just a thought in case any of y’all are movie execs with some spare change. =)
Librarian
I don’t watch Succession, but apparently Tom Nichols had a small part last night as a TV pundit. Did anybody see it?
trollhattan
The four redicuspawn certainly occupied their expected corners. I really wanted Shiv to live up to her name and shiv at least one.
pajaro
I watched it. As someone who had watched the series, I thought it was amazing. The whole series, we were aware that the main characters were all awful people, but each had vulnerabilities with which one could emphasize, and we could laugh at the jokes that they made as they schemed against each other. Last night, however, it was us (the majority of the American people) that they were attacking, and it wasn’t funny at all. I can’t remember hating fictional TV characters the way I hated the two brothers at the end of the episode. I would have preferred that they just dropped dead, rather than do what they did, and that’s something I can’t remember experiencing in a similar way on a long-running TV show.
To put it mildly, I would not recommend it to anyone who is not already invested in the show, because the scenario they spinned out was completely plausible IMO, and it wasn’t fun to watch.
way2blue
I’ve only watched half of the first season of Succession—stopped because none of the characters seems to have any redeeming qualities and the plot seemed an ongoing train wreck… That said. Tom Nichols last night tweeted that last night’s episode was shot in December 2022. So the writers appear have the dynamic down cold.
UncleEbeneezer
Seeing Allred and the Hillary Hulu documentary were both really great but the part where the viewer has to relive That Night, was absolutely excruciating.
rikyrah
@way2blue:
I have a good friend, and his first requirement for any show that he watches is..
there must be ONE character that is sympathetic to him.
LOL
geg6
I watched about three episodes of the first season of this show. Then I quit because, for me, it was unwatchable. Shitty people doing shitty things with not a single redeeming virtue among any of them. Sorry but I get enough of that garbage IRL. I don’t understand why this show is popular. Especially among so many liberals. I just don’t get why that is. The characters weren’t even shitty in an interesting way. Just horrible avatars for the Murdochs and FOX News. Why, why, why?
ETA: Felt the same way about Game of Thrones. And Breaking Bad. Ugh. So much awful “prestige” tv.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I think people see (watching) it as a big Fuck You to the Murdoch
ETA: I like the acting and (much of) the writing. Sometimes they mumble in service of realism (or is my hearing going) and a lot of times they lean too hard into the “no exposition” thing. In last week’s episode they started talking about “Nate”, and it was clearly a dramatic, important moment but all I could think of was, “Who the hell is Nate?” I had to google.
geg6
@rikyrah:
I’m of the same opinion. I have no interest in watching non-stop assholery.
geg6
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I don’t know how they come to that conclusion. Do they really think the Murdochs give a shit? If they do, they are stupid or naive.
narya
@rikyrah: @geg6: I also nearly always need someone who isn’t a complete and total asshole, be it book or movie or TV show. (I never finished “Bonfire of the Vanities” precisely because everyone was a terrible, terrible person.) Because I mostly read the books (I probably only saw 1-2 episodes), I found more to connect to with GoT–some characters were irredeemable, but when I could at least understand how someone got to where they were, I could tolerate bad behavior a little better. I also look for change in characters–doesn’t have to be a complete redemption arc or anything, but some evidence of an inner life/growth. (That’s what made Schitt’s Creek so enjoyable.)
But yeah: real life is full of horrible people; I don’t need to spend my fiction-watching time in the same space.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Primrose Hill sounds like a very nice neighborhood, some of the neighbors notwithstanding
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
I expect, like the Trumps, the Murdochs do give a shit. However, I think they just all double down on being assholes.
NotMax
Do not have HBO, so no watching it.
Which is fortunate because it sounds positively dreadful.
cope
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: If I were a
MorlockMurdoch, I would be flattered by interest in the show so I am not so sure they would perceive it as a FU. Just a thought by a Brian Cox fan who doesn’t watch “Succession” because what geg6 said.Quinerly
Countdown to the next conspiracy. Hunter Biden’s laptop is a hired assassin. It’s not a laptop. It’s a killing machine
“Now, the truth that I can tell everyone this morning is we have not lost the submarine,” Greene said. “That whistleblower is very safe. But he does fear for his life, and rightfully so.”
While Greene claimed she was in contact with one whistleblower, up to nine other witnesses were missing or unavailable.
“That whistleblower came through for us, thankfully, through the help of Senator Grassley,” she explained. “But other whistleblowers, yes, they are missing. They’re either in court, they’re in jail, or we cannot talk with them at this time because they can’t be found.”
“And our investigation is so important, Steve, that this will bring down the president of the United States,” she added.
https://www.rawstory.com/marjorie-taylor-greene-whistleblowers/
(I have no idea why the fonts keep changing. I’m on my smarty pants phone, in the yard)
Soprano2
@geg6: Come over here and sit by me. I wasn’t a bit interested in any of those shows either, and for the same reason. I watch TV to be entertained, not continually horrified.
MagdaInBlack
@Soprano2: May I sit with you two? Same reasons, same shows.
Redshift
Since it’s an open thread, has anyone heard of a DeSantis version of “Make America Kittens Again,” the browser plugin that automatically replaced photos of TFG with pictures of kittens? It just occurred to me that never seeing his ugly mug and resting asshole face expression would be good for my blood pressure.
James E Powell
@NotMax:
All taste is taste. I think it’s one of the best shows of all time.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Soprano2:
We need more shows like All Creatures Great And Small, Ted Lasso (Seas 1-2), Small or Parks and Rec. Less horror, more humanity.
NotMax
@MagdaInBlack
Is there still room on the settee? I’ve got cookies.
MagdaInBlack
@NotMax: There’s always room for the cookie bringer 😊
ALurkSupreme
Incredible show. A very, very dark comedy. The theme song is astonishing. I can understand the complaints with it, though.
Mimi haha
That sounds horrible
geg6
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:
Well, to be completely fair, I did not like the few episodes of Ted Lasso that I subjected myself to either. It felt like The Office, only soccer. Another show I didn’t like.
Betty Cracker
@ALurkSupreme: You’re exactly right — it’s a pitch-black comedy. I didn’t start watching it until within the last year or so because at first I thought it was a drama that might glorify some of the assholes featured, but my assumption was 100% wrong. (IMO, the funniest line last night was Tom’s “cloven hooves” zinger.) And you’re right about the theme song and opening credits too — absolutely brilliant.
Betty Cracker
I used to work with a guy who was an aspiring screenwriter. He refused to watch any of The Godfather movies because he thought they glorified the mob. As far as I know, he’s still an actuary, and that’s probably for the best.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Betty Cracker: David Chase was constantly frustrated with the fact that no matter how awful he made Tony Soprano, people still thought of him as a hero (Tony lost me for good for the way he treated Hesh in the last season). Of course, Chase himself made Tony sympathetic by always having worse people in Tony’s world, from Richie to Ralphie to Philly
trollhattan
@ALurkSupreme: First season when viewed as a satire, like “Veep,” is quite funny and the characters all mockable–one’s not supposed to like them. And being uberrich their every flaw is magnified, as there area no constraints on how to act, at least when dad’s not in the room.
The remaining seasons have been more an examination of relationships–familial primarily, but also career. The machinations behind the various merger, sale, and acquisition schemes seem very accurate to these non-educated eyes.
trollhattan
@Betty Cracker: Did you watch “The Offer”? Was skeptical of the very concept but it pulled me in from the start and is IMO very much worth the time.
Hey, the insurance industry really needs those actuaries!
ALurkSupreme
@Betty Cracker: Yeah, I’m late to the party as well, so I’m not watching on HBO. Instead, I saw the end of Season 2 on HBO Max yesterday evening — the episode in which Logan fingers Kendall to take the fall for the company’s misdeeds and Kendall absolutely jacks him up at the presser. Can’t remember the last time I’ve laughed so hard at a TV show.
Heidi Mom
@geg6: I tried to appreciate Breaking Bad, but gave up after three seasons because I just couldn’t stand any more of Walter White. I haven’t seen Succession because the subject of high finance doesn’t interest me. Game of Thrones, however, is my favorite show of all time because of the incredible variety and complexity of its characters. Some are truly evil (Joffrey, Ramsay, Littlefinger), some are truly good (Ned Stark, Jon Snow, Lord Commander Mormont, Shireen Baratheon), most are somewhere in between, struggling to make sense of and survive the shit that life has dumped on them.
Betty Cracker
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: The one antihero crush I could never quite understand is Tony Montana from Scarface. But if you visit Miami, you absolutely will see tributes, from tats to sun shades.
Betty Cracker
@trollhattan: We loved The Offer! I still wonder how true the thing about Talia Shire and Gianni Russo was!
schrodingers_cat
@geg6: Agreed about the GoT. I watched a few episodes, it didn’t stick. Too much gratuitous sex and violence. No idea why it was so popular. Haven’t seen Breaking Bad either.
tybee
open thread so…
Here’s why Florida lawmakers were too busy to tackle property insurance rates
https://www.tampabay.com/opinion/2023/05/13/heres-why-florida-lawmakers-were-too-busy-tackle-property-insurance-rates-column/
Kristine
Since Open Thread, I wanted to let the world know that my Dark Brandon/2024 mug arrived today. Made in the USA by HF Coors. It has a Union Label stamp under DB’s image, but I can’t tell if it states which union. On the Biden/Harris store site, it states “American Made/Union Printed.
Dan
Succession is Always Sunny with rich people. Hapless morons scheming, sometimes with, sometimes against, each other.
JML
@Betty Cracker: There are a lot of writers/producers that missed the point on The Godfather.
It’s been one of my problems with Scorsese; he often tells stories about despicable people in such a way that it’s very easy for lots of people to walk away thinking “kinda liked [person X]!” How many people walked away from The Wolf of Wall Street thinking that Jordan Balfort was a complete scumbag and how many thought that he might have gotten a raw deal as an outsider coming into the world of high finance? Because Balfort is a total scumbag, a greedy disgusting horror show.
Ejoiner
For all my Succession peeps out there – check this out:
https://youtu.be/TJ7m0h1Ktbk
My wife and I have, since season 1, marveled at how it’s really just Arrested Development if the Bluth’s had real power and influence…and now we have proof! Added bonus: AI voice for Ron Howard (has anyone else seen the plethora of Wes Anderson trailer knock offs using AI?)
CaseyL
I’ve stopped watching many a show, and even movies, when there was no one among the characters I found remotely likable.
An asshole world, full of asshole people, scheming to out-asshole one another? – No, thanks; I already live in that world. Fictionalized versions of it are depressing, not entertaining, to me.
arrieve
I love Succession. Yes, the main characters are all awful people, but the writing and acting are brilliant, and it’s both very very dark and very very funny. But last night’s episode!
I kept looking at my watch, wanting it to be over. It was excruciating. Horrible flashbacks to election night 2016, and suddenly characters who were previously, if not sympathetic because no one on this show is, at least more interesting than their character descriptions would lead you to expect, did deep dives into irredeemably evil. And they were so fucking casual about it. I’m suspecting that this is where Jesse Armstrong meant to take us all along and it was devastating.
Betty Cracker
@JML: Right, but the ability to infuse characters and plotlines with nuance and complexity is what makes the writing good, IMO. Otherwise, it’s just a boring morality play. I argued with my former colleague about this a time or two. To me, his refusal to give a masterpiece of American cinema a look because it’s about gangsters is like refusing to watch King Lear because you’re anti-monarchy. That’s not the point! ;-)
Ejoiner
Crazy connection – last night’s Succession featured Adam Godley as the wasabi tortured numbers guy for ATN (and what a great scene that was), but he is also the archbishop on The Great which is currently in it’s third season on HULU…and it is also taking a hot poker to the rampant corruption roiling in Catherine’s democratic reforms! Catherine is lauding the voice of the people…and the people, well, let’s just say it holds a mirror up to America in 2023 :)
Betty Cracker
@Ejoiner: I saw the fake Wes Anderson’s Lord of the Rings trailer (“Fellowship of the Whimsical” or some such), and it’s hilarious!
@arrieve: You’re right; we’re supposed to be horrified by the casual, self-interested decisions. “On one hand, Hitler is bad, but he’ll kill the GoJo deal, so…”
prostratedragon
@Redshift: You can add names to the one that’s present by default. I added Putin successfully. I turned the app off sometime in 2021 but have recently thought about it again.
(I realize that someone above might have anwered this, but I know a plaintive cry for help when I hear one.)
Nancy B
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Well, it’s pretty posh.
Juju
@Betty Cracker: HBO does interesting opening credits. I didn’t watch all of “Game of Thrones “, but the opening credits were always entertaining.
PJ
@Betty Cracker:
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
@JML:
People root for the bad guy(s) in these shows because they are the protagonist, not because they are doing bad things. The protagonist drives the plot – his or her actions or inactions are what set things in motion and keep them happening. Because the audience wants to see things happen (watching, for example, someone mow their lawn is not terribly interesting), they root for the protagonist, but it’s not because they are the bad guy (or the good guy).
prostratedragon
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I’m reminded of the old movie D.OA.
and the character Majek who fancies himself a gentleman. At one point he “apologizes” for a flunky, saying “He is an unfortunate boy. He’s psychopathic. He likes to cause pain.” And we get just a beat long enough to consider what that fact must make Majek
Juju
I’ve watched “Succession” for most of the seasons. I do get tired of irredeemable characters, but there was an episode a couple of weeks ago where it all clicked into place as to why I watch. It was the one where the oldest brother was talking about how $100 million might not be enough to finance whatever grift he was contemplating, and the more normal people he was with were agog at the thought of that much money not being enough. With all the money and privilege the characters and their real life counterparts have, they don’t seem to be truly happy people, except for Rupert Murdoch when he’s pulling the wings off of flies and divorcing whatever number wife he’s on. Also, Tom Wamgams, or whatever it is is kind of an interesting character.
Betty Cracker
@tybee: Daniel Ruth is, if not a national treasure, a Tampa Bay area one. Thanks for sharing that link! 😊
trollhattan
@Ejoiner: Huzzah!
“The Great” is…pretty great. If “Bridgerton” is too saccharine-infused for you to make it through one episode, then this might be your show.
It has bears.
JustRuss
Since this thread be open, I’ll just mention i saw James “Mad Dog” Mattis, (I believe he hate’s that sobriquet, and it doesn’t really seem to fit him) Trump’s SecDef speak at a graduation last week, and I was pretty impressed. Pretty funny, self-deprecating, and he even mentioned climate change as a challenge facing the next generation. He did not mention TFG, although he did quote Justice Roberts, about compassion, of all things. I realize it’s a low bar, but he was probably the least horrible person to serve in Trump’s admin, by a considerable margin. I’m still not sure if he should have walked away very early, or if his presence mitigated some of the horribleness.
Redshift
@prostratedragon: cool, I’ll check it out. I never noticed it had settings.