Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

So it was an October Surprise A Day, like an Advent calendar but for crime.

She burned that motherfucker down, and I am so here for it. Thank you, Caroline Kennedy.

Republicans: “Abortion is murder but you can take a bus to get one.” Easy peasy.

There is no compromise when it comes to body autonomy. You either have it or you do not.

Many life forms that would benefit from greater intelligence, sadly, do not have it.

rich, arrogant assholes who equate luck with genius

You’re just a puppy masquerading as an old coot.

Republicans seem to think life begins at the candlelight dinner the night before.

Accused of treason; bitches about the ratings. I am in awe.

The lights are all blinking red.

You passed on an opportunity to be offended? What are you even doing here?

White supremacy is terrorism.

The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.

We are builders in a constant struggle with destroyers. keep building.

Teach a man to fish, and he’ll sit in a boat all day drinking beer.

New McCarthy, same old McCarthyism.

Trump’s cabinet: like a magic 8 ball that only gives wrong answers.

People are weird.

Republicans firmly believe having an abortion is a very personal, very private decision between a woman and J.D. Vance.

“woke” is the new caravan.

If a good thing happens for a bad reason, it’s still a good thing.

The media handbook says “controversial” is the most negative description that can be used for a Republican.

After dobbs, women are no longer free.

The rest of the comments were smacking Boebert like she was a piñata.

You are here: Home / TV & Movies / Movies / Sunday Morning Open Thread: Eye-Catching

Sunday Morning Open Thread: Eye-Catching

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Belt *and* suspenders, that’s the talking point:

… For the Artemis V mission, NASA’s SLS (Space Launch System) rocket will launch four astronauts to lunar orbit aboard the Orion spacecraft. Once Orion docks with Gateway, two astronauts will transfer to Blue Origin’s human landing system for about a weeklong trip to the Moon’s South Pole region where they will conduct science and exploration activities. Artemis V is at the intersection of demonstrating NASA’s initial lunar exploration capabilities and establishing the foundational systems to support recurring complex missions in lunar orbit and on the surface as part of the agency’s Moon to Mars exploration approach.

Adding another human landing system partner to NASA’s Artemis program will increase competition, reduce costs to taxpayers, support a regular cadence of lunar landings, further invest in the lunar economy, and help NASA achieve its goals on and around the Moon in preparation for future astronaut missions to Mars.

The agency previously contracted SpaceX to demonstrate an initial human landing system for the Artemis III mission. Under that contract, the agency also directed SpaceX to evolve its design to meet the agency’s requirements for sustainable exploration and to demonstrate the lander on Artemis IV. As a result of the contract with Blue Origin to demonstrate on Artemis V a lander that meets these same sustainable lander requirements, including capabilities for increased crew size, longer mission duration, and delivery of more mass to the Moon, multiple providers will be available to compete for future opportunities to fulfill NASA’s lunar surface access needs for Artemis missions.

By supporting industry’s development of innovative human landing system concepts and designs, NASA will help increase access to space for the benefit of all.

“Having two distinct lunar lander designs, with different approaches to how they meet NASA’s mission needs, provides more robustness and ensures a regular cadence of Moon landings,” said Lisa Watson-Morgan, manager, Human Landing System Program at NASA’s Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Alabama. “This competitive approach drives innovation, brings down costs, and invests in commercial capabilities to grow the business opportunities that can serve other customers and foster a lunar economy.”…

===========

Extremely WTAF moment:

With full respect for Mr. Cumberbatch’s acting talents, you couldn’t get me even to hate-watch this unless you offered a very large sum of money, paid in advance.

… The Dylan biopic — previously titled Going Electric before swapping with the “Like a Rolling Stone” lyric — will begin production this August, with Top Gun: Maverick’s Monica Barbaro playing Joan Baez and Elle Fanning also cast in an unspecified role.

“It’s such an amazing time in American culture and the story of a young, 19-year-old Bob Dylan coming to New York with like two dollars in his pocket and becoming a worldwide sensation within three years,” Mangold previously told Collider. “First being embraced into the family of folk music in New York and then, of course, kind of outrunning them at a certain point as his star rises so beyond belief. It’s such an interesting true story and about such an interesting moment in the American scene.” …

Cumberbatch-as-Seeger will likely play a sizable role in the film, just as Seeger had an enormous impact on the young Dylan, from helping him land a record contract to furthering his activism to inviting him to play at Newport Folk Festival

Mangold previously announced that Chalamet “of course” would be providing his own vocals to Dylan’s music in the biopic.

Of course!

I feel like somebody should reassure Cumberbatch that he really doesn’t need to do these stunts any more — every kid who went to a British boarding school has those kinds of photos to be embarrassed by.

Reader Interactions

176Comments

  1. 1.

    lowtechcyclist

    First thing is, I have a hard time believing that there’s a real person named ‘Benedict Cumberbatch.’  Shouldn’t he be a character in a Dickens novel?

  2. 2.

    Baud

    With full respect for Mr. Cumberbatch’s acting talents, you couldn’t get me even to hate-watch this unless you offered a very large sum of money, paid in advance.

     

    Not clear which one of the actors or characters got your goat on this one.

    I’m not a huge Dylan fan so this movie doesn’t interest me.

  4. 4.

    Ken

    I’m still shocked every time I’m reminded they named the spacecraft “Orion”. That has a definite meaning (or would it be connotation) for everyone interested in space, and not necessarily a good one.

  5. 5.

    Ken

    @Baud: They’ll use the same CGI model they have now — the one that his lawyers tried to claim was deep-faked by people trying to discredit him.  The judge, you may recall, was not amused.

  9. 9.

    OzarkHillbilly

    further invest in the lunar economy,

    Oh brother, please just stop it with this nonsense.

  11. 11.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Baud:

    I’m not a huge Dylan fan so this movie doesn’t interest me.

    I’m a pretty big Dylan fan, so I think I’ll wait until I hear what other people think about it.

    But it was amusing, seeing the Rolling Stone logo over a tweet about “A Complete Unknown.”

  13. 13.

    Anne Laurie

    @Baud: Not clear which one of the actors or characters got your goat on this one.

    As far as I can tell, the only characteristics shared by Cumberbatch and Seeger are human and male.

    And even if he *did* manage to pull off an impersonation, watching him play (literally!) second fiddle to lookit-me-sing Chalamet… eeuch!

  18. 18.

    WaterGirl

    Is this basically “we don’t trust Musk anymore, and we think he will charge way more than he should, so this is quiet quitting Musk” while adding Bezos?

  19. 19.

    different-church-lady

    Benedict Cumberbatch will portray folk legend Pete Seeger alongside Timothée Chalamet’s Bob Dylan in the upcoming biopic ‘A Complete Unknown’

    Just do what they did with the Super Bowl 50: add Beyoncé at the last minute.

  23. 23.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Too f’n funny:

    Ryan Breton
    @RyanBretonWX
    Saw this live and I still can’t believe it. 💨

    Apparently he got penalized a stroke because the law of gravity took his side. Golf is weird. I had no idea they have a shot clock.

  24. 24.

    Citizen_X

    Boy, I don’t know who pissed in everyone’s Cheerios this morning. Maybe the performances in the Dylan pic will be good, maybe not. “Neither of those guys can act in those roles” is the assumption here, really?

    And yes, invest in THE BEGINNINGS OF a lunar economy. We have an enormous low-Earth-orbit economy right now, something that was a fantasy a couple of generations ago. This is how these things start.

    Sheesh!

  26. 26.

    thruppence

    Going to try to be in the one hundred and somethingth Bay to Breakers. I the only time I did it before was thirty odd years ago. Well, let’s see what happens…

  27. 27.

    Layer8Problem

    I will almost certainly have to endure this one, if only for the Seeger, although Dylan as National Treasure will probably enter into the equation with my partner.  When Seeger was blacklisted he’d make some cash coming over from Beacon to Partner’s Socialist Summer Camp™ as well as others for sing-alongs with the kids.  I just never was a folk head or a Dylan person.  I “respected” those things, like I “respected” the Dead.  I knew good people who loved them, and I love someone who loves them, but I just never grokked them.

  28. 28.

    Lacuna Synecdoche

    NASA.gov via Anne Laurie @ Top:q

    “Having two distinct lunar lander designs, with different approaches to how they meet NASA’s mission needs, provides more robustness and ensures a regular cadence of Moon landings,” said Lisa Watson-Morgan, manager, Human Landing System Program at NASA’s Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Alabama. “This competitive approach drives innovation, brings down costs, and invests in commercial capabilities to grow the business opportunities that can serve other customers and foster a lunar economy.” …

    “Plus,” she continued, “We’ve been looking for a way to tell that right-wing reactionary Musk freak to either pull himself together and get with the program, or fuck off and die in a fire.”

  29. 29.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Citizen_X: Me thinks thou assumes too much. Yes, it is an investment, but that investment is in knowledge, not an economy. There may one day be a lunar economy, or maybe not. Right now a “lunar economy” is nothing more than science fiction.

     

  30. 30.

    Jackie

    From Joe’s lips:

    “President Biden on Sunday said he believes he has the authority to use the 14th Amendment to unilaterally address the debt ceiling, but he acknowledged potential legal challenges could still lead the nation to default if he went that route,” The Hill reports.”

    “Said Biden: “I’m looking at the 14th Amendment as to whether or not we have the authority — I think we have the authority.”

    “He added: “The question is, could it be done and invoked in time that it would not be appealed, and as a consequence past the date in question and still default on the debt. That is a question that I think is unresolved.””

    Think there’s a little cat and mouse going on? McCarthy must be feeling McQueasy right about now….  I like it!

  31. 31.

    geg6

    They couldn’t find any Americans to play iconic Americans?  I have no idea who this Chalamet dude is, but as someone who has never seen anything special, or even very good, in Cumberbatch, this is going to a disaster.  Stupid casting all around.

  33. 33.

    Wag

    @OzarkHillbilly:   May the Lunar Economy be every bit as beneficial as the Apollo Economy, which kick started the world of microprocessors and revolutionized computers.  I don’t think the Lunar Economy is limited to the surface of the moon.

  35. 35.

    MomSense

    Meanwhile on planet earth we are hurtling toward a completely unnecessary and man made disaster with the debt ceiling.  And can we just fucking take a moment to discuss how terrible the press coverage has been?

  38. 38.

    kalakal

    @lowtechcyclist: There was a fun BBC Radio 4 comedy series called Bleak Expectations about a decade ago which was a great mash up of Dickens and Victorian and Edwardian writing generally*

    The names of the characters were great

    Flora Dies-Early, Mr Gently  Benevolent ( the most evil man in the world), Mr Skinflint Parsimonious ( the most generous man in the world), the headmaster Jeremiah Hardthrasher , Miss Ripley Fecund, and Lord Backhander amongst others

  39. 39.

    dmsilev

    Calling Blue Origin the tortoise compared to the SpaceX hare is arguably giving Blue more credit than it’s due. They’ve been talking a big game for years, and yes have spent a lot of Bezos’s money, but actually deployed and functioning hardware right now is just two things:

    • New Shepard, a small up-and-down (not orbital) reusable rocket. Great for joyrides and for some short-duration experiments and things like that, but not much else.
    • BE-4, a big engine for heavy orbital-class rockets. Developed for BO’s next rocket, New Glenn, but whatever progress is being made on the rocket is being kept under wraps; BE-4’s maiden flight will be on someone else’s rocket (ULA’s Vulcan, set to fly in the next few months).

    It’s not a huge track record. Now, maybe there’s a lot going on behind the scenes and they’ve shown it to NASA and made a convincing enough case to warrant this big award. I would be wary though.

  40. 40.

    Maxim

    @Layer8Problem: Dylan is on my list of “most overrated” musicians. He’s got a few good songs. His voice is terrible. He’s admitted to only writing social-Justice type songs because he thought they would help him make a name for himself, not out of any genuine convictions. So … meh.

  42. 42.

    cmorenc

    The one time I saw Dylan perform, his on-stage demeanor sharply turned me off toward him.  While I neither expect nor like musical artists to suck-up to their audiences, Dylan entered the stage, performed his sets, and exited without even once, for a brief moment, even looking at the audience nor addressing us with a single word.  He walked on-stage, sat down behind a keyboard facing sideways to the audience, and didn’t so much as swivel his head, let alone speak, to us the entire maybe one-hour set, then swiftly exited in the same fashion.  His whole demeanor – including body language, was unmistakably disdainful toward his audience – hey Bob, without us, you’d be some ordinary working stiff playing open mike night in some local Minnesota tavern.

    It didn’t help Dylan that he was touring with Willie Nelson, who came on first and effoetlessly exudes the vibe that the audience are welcome invitees to a picnic concert in Willie’s back yard, which made the contrast vividly stark.

  43. 43.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Baud: George Santos will revisit his Oscar-winning portrayal.  Like Peter O’Toole did with Henry II, but with more Oscars.

  45. 45.

    John S.

    Timothee Chalamet is American. He was born and raised in NYC.

    Both he and Cumberbatch are excellent actors, but not necessarily a good fit for these roles they have been cast in.

  50. 50.

    Layer8Problem

    @Maxim:  When my partner got sick of my Dylan singing “Blowin’ in the Wind” impression (I was a bit of a sarcastic asshole back then), Partner would fire back “Well, you like The Smiths.”

  52. 52.

    Raoul Paste

    It’s curious that they’re calling this movie A Complete Unknown when an earlier Dylan movie was called I’m Not There.   Okay, we get it already.—- he defies classification.

    I’m Not There had different segments with different actors  (and one actress) playing Bob Dylan.

  53. 53.

    Amir Khalid

    Timothée Chalamet can sing. That alone should disqualify him from playing Bob Dylan in a movie.

  55. 55.

    geg6

    @cmorenc:

    I had a similar Dylan experience.  He basically kept his back to us in audience the whole time.  Thankfully, Mark Knopfler was touring with him as his guitar player and he did his best to make up for Dylan’s rudeness.  Plus it was in the old Pittsburgh Civic Arena with the retractable roof, which they opened that night.  It was always cool when they did that and the cloud of pot smoke went wafting up and out.

  62. 62.

    The Thin Black Duke

    Joni Mitchell is the real genius of that era in the 60s and beyond. Dylan isn’t worthy to light her cigarettes.

  66. 66.

    LiminalOwl

    @WaterGirl: Ditto on the Seeger. Chalamet is… very pretty; in the couple of films where we’ve seen him, he seemed to think prettiness could substitute for acting. Sorta worked for “Laurie” Laurence; definitely not for Paul Atreides.

    A co-worker long ago claimed to have been in reform school alongside Bob Dylan, back in Minnesota.

  68. 68.

    Layer8Problem

    @different-church-lady:  Nah, not really, though I could see why one might think that.  Along those lines Partner felt all Nirvana was the last part of “All Apologies.”  At which point I’d have to stick the live versions of “Aneurysm” and “Drain You” into the CD player.  Partner is a patient person.

  69. 69.

    Cheryl from Maryland

    Despite Wayne and I calling Cumberbatch “Benedryl Pumpkin patch,”  I enjoy watching him, although he is in too many biopics.

  71. 71.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Anne Laurie: He’s a great actor though and they can do some really impressive transformations with make-up and styling.  Kristen Stewart is nothing like Lady Diana.  Christian Bale is nothing like Dick Cheney.  And yet, both captured the vibe/essence of their characters incredibly well.  I wouldn’t be surprised if Cumberbatch manages to pull off a similar trick.

  72. 72.

    LiminalOwl

    @kalakal: omg that sounds wonderful. Will find it online if possible.

    Benedict Cumberbatch is a great double-dactyl name. Now, combining it with Cassidy Hutchinson…

  74. 74.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    A friend in college tried to turn me on to Dylan. It was about the lyrics. “Isn’t this the most amazing poetry you’ve ever heard?”

    I’ve never had the poetry gene, so I did what I always did with songs that consisted of poetry I didn’t understand, just shrugged and said I guessed it was OK. My friend was mightily disappointed in me.

    My daughter as a teenager got heavily into Dylan and was similarly disappointed in me that I hadn’t been a Dylan fan back in the day when he was writing all these iconic songs.

    As a kid, my listening was mostly junk radio, Top 40 AM that played on transistor radios. The only Dylan songs I remember that crossed over onto those playlists were “Lay Lady Lay” and “Mr. Bojangles”, both of which I hated.

  75. 75.

    Another Scott

    @dmsilev: The main NASA NextSTEP (Jobs’ ghost is probably unhappy with that name ;-) page has a graphic at the bottom showing the players over the last few years. It looks like BlueOrigin has been under contract for various things (design, etc.) since at least 2019.

    BO won out on this contract over Dynetics (which has also had contracts since 2019, but I’ve never heard of them. I think they’re based in Alabama.).

    It looks like there are lots of steps and benchmarks along the way, so Bezos is going to have to show substantial progress (presumably in the next year or two) or someone else will get paid to do the work.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  76. 76.

    oldgold

    On Dylan: I cut genius a lot of slack. I appreciate their gifts and give them a pass on their personality.

    When I first saw the Sistine Chapel’s ceiling, my first thought, nor my last, was not the that the artist was a jerk.

  78. 78.

    RaflW

    @WaterGirl: I wonder if the Biden Admin saw the absolutely shameful wreckage of the environment from Col. Muskard’s failed rocket launch and said “whelp, better have a backup plan because the Apartheid Ahole is likely lying his ass off about sustainability for their lunar module.”

  79. 79.

    UncleEbeneezer

    I love when other people play Dylan tunes, but don’t really care for his own versions.  Jimi Hendrix doing Like A Rolling Stone (at Monterey).  Jerry Garcia Band doing Tangled Up In Blue etc.  There are several more I can’t think of off the top of my head.

  81. 81.

    geg6

    @John S.:

    He’s also very much French, from what I have gathered from my niece and Wiki.  Now that I’ve seen his Wiki, I know why I’ve never seen him in anything.  None of it rings a bell except Dune, which you couldn’t pay me enough to watch (or read, for that matter…tried once and a bit less than 100 pages in, gave it up as hopeless).  Plus, he’s way too much a pretty boy to play Dylan.

  82. 82.

    The Thin Black Duke

    @UncleEbeneezer: My issue with biopics is when they plug big name actors into the roles of historical figures, in spite of the layers of prosthetics the actors are wearing, I find it distracting because the big name actors are usually recognizable, which takes me out of the movie. Unfortunately, the problem with casting unknown actors means that finding someone willing to bankroll the movie is difficult, because nobody knows who these non-big name actors are.

  83. 83.

    LiminalOwl

    @WaterGirl: So would I; unfortunately, he never got around to sharing details, or at least none that I can remember.  I only remember thinking, “oh, so that’s what the song ‘The Walls of Red Wing’ is about.”

    Co-worker was an interesting guy. I was doing an internship in outpatient substance-abuse treatment and was his (very junior) co-leader of the group for parolees in recovery.

  85. 85.

    LiminalOwl

    @The Thin Black Duke: I agree that Joni Mitchell is the real genius, but…. do we need to reprise the argument from our first date?

    (ETA: no, of course we don’t. You convinced me long ago, though  I still love some Dylan songs—not the voice, and certainly not the person.)

  86. 86.

    The Thin Black Duke

    @UncleEbeneezer: I love it when a song gets stolen from the original artist. Case in point, Johnny Cash’s interpretation of “Hurt”. Trent Reznor was gracious enough to admit it, which I give him credit for being a mensch about it.

  88. 88.

    Another Scott

    @Amir Khalid: Heh.

    I saw Dylan once, with the Grateful Dead, when they played RFK shortly before Jerry died.  It was a good show, but not OMG THIS IS THE GREATEST THING EVER!!  ;-)  J loved it because it was the first (and only) time she heard them play Box of Rain live.  Hearing him/them do All Along the Watchtower was neat.

    His voice grates on my ears a little, but lots of great musicians and writers and performers (Louis Armstrong, Tom Waits, Stevie Nicks, Willie Nelson, Joe Cocker, Janis Joplin, etc., etc.) didn’t have great (or even pleasing) voices (or at least were famous for not using them (supposedly Janis could sound like an angel if she wanted)).

    Variety’s the spice!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  89. 89.

    kalakal

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:

    The cast obviously had a lot of fun.

    Anthony Head has a great time as Gently Benevolent and the journalist Sourquill while Geoffrey Whitehead gets to play entire dynasties of various evil families  Hardthrashers / Sternbeaters / Whackwallops / Grimpunches / Clampvultures

    dying by increasingly ludicrous means

    ( crushed by a falling guillotine, struck by a flying kidney, attacked by enslaved cheese miners)

  94. 94.

    OverTwistWillie

    Hey, Have you heard the news?
    Dewey Cox Died

    Luhrmann’s Elvis movie narratives were very clearly driven by the marketing needs of the new rights holders to the estate.

    They buried the polyester and beehive crowd, and are selling to a younger and diverse music buying audience.

    Expect similar product placement shifts as these old rock gits cross over and catalogs are sold off.

    This is at the core of the woke whinging – target all marketing at me, even if I don’t buy the product.

  99. 99.

    Miss Bianca

    @kalakal: The first time I heard “Protest Song” – when I was in high school, in a friend’s basement – I literally fell on the floor laughing when that first harmonica squeal came blasting out of the speakers. To this day, whenever anyone says “rain on a tin roof” the words “sounds like a drum” come into my head automatically.

    Neil Innes was a genius.

  106. 106.

    CaseyL

    I’m surprised by the sourness in this thread directed at Cumberbatch. Has he reached the “so good an actor it’s no longer fashionable to like him” stage?  Should we only cast actors who have the same nationality as the person they’re portraying?

    And Chalamet has done good work in a wide variety of roles, from Don’t Look Up to Dune.  He also has much the same delicate facial structure as Young Dylan, if that counts for anything.

    I’m not sure I’ll see the movie, but that’s mostly because I rarely get out to movie theaters anymore.  But Cumberbatch and Chalamet are very good at what they do, so I don’t get the pre-emptive dismissiveness.

  107. 107.

    Geminid

    @geg6: Miles Davis played with his back to the audience the one time I saw him. He had 7 or 8 great musicians playing with him, so I did not mind.

  109. 109.

    Steeplejack

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Fuck Morrissey even more. It wasn’t until Rourke’s obituary the other day that I found out Morrissey screwed him out of £1 million in royalties. The drummer continued the suit and won. Don’t know if he ever got paid.

  113. 113.

    kalakal

    @AWOL:

    When Canada was going to launch its

    first satellite they had a national contest

    to give it a suitable name.

    Cohen suggested “Ralph”

  115. 115.

    MomSense

    @CaseyL:

    Chalamet is a great actor.  He has my current favorite improv line. In Don’t Look Up they are grocery shopping for what is to be their last supper and Leo’s character mentions he got fingerling potatoes. In the sweetest, most enthusiastic way he says “I fucking love fingerling potatoes” while doing this finger snap thing that kids do.  It just got to me.

  116. 116.

    Geminid

    @The Thin Black Duke: Laura Nyro was up there too.

    I was impressed by Dylan’s Highway 61 Revisited and Blond on Blond. But I give much of the credit to producer Bob Johnston and the musicians..

  117. 117.

    Steeplejack

    To me Dylan is a great writer/​composer and a mediocre performer. He’s like the reverse of the Beatles: with a few exceptions, anybody else’s cover of a Dylan song is better than the original.

  121. 121.

    geg6

    @Maxim:

    Not by my reckoning.  Not attractive at all, but that’s not always an important thing to me.  I’m more drawn to Dylan’s sort of bad boy, cynical but smart and sensitive persona as a young man.  But he turned out to be an asshole, so I’m not drawn to him at all these days.  Did find that movie where a bunch of different actors, none of them actually looking anything like him, played him at various points of his life to be interesting.  Not necessarily great, but interesting.

  123. 123.

    Steeplejack

    @LiminalOwl:

    Your former coworker appears to be a bullshit artist.

    Red Wing was a famous boys’ reformatory in Red Wing, Minnesota. Many of Dylan’s early fans believed that Dylan himself had been incarcerated in Red Wing, but he never was. Further, there are many Minnesotans familiar with the place that doubt that Dylan ever laid eyes on it at all, as the school resembles a college much more than a prison, as he depicts it in the song [“Walls of Red Wing”].

    There’s no evidence that Dylan was ever in any reform school.

  129. 129.

    Brachiator

    @cmorenc:

    The one time I saw Dylan perform, his on-stage demeanor sharply turned me off toward him.  While I neither expect nor like musical artists to suck-up to their audiences, Dylan entered the stage, performed his sets, and exited without even once, for a brief moment, even looking at the audience nor addressing us with a single word.  He walked on-stage, sat down behind a keyboard facing sideways to the audience, and didn’t so much as swivel his head, let alone speak, to us the entire maybe one-hour set, then swiftly exited in the same fashion.  His whole demeanor – including body language, was unmistakably disdainful toward his audience – hey Bob, without us, you’d be some ordinary working stiff playing open mike night in some local Minnesota tavern.

    Miles Davis would sometimes be criticized for keeping his back to the audience, for not being friendly, etc.

    I understand that some fans want to feel that artists are their friends, and to acknowledge them.

    But ultimately the only thing an artist owes you is a good performance.

    ETA. I saw Miles play a number of times. Some of the most exciting gigs were where he paid attention to the other musicians, and he clearly was aware of the mood of the audience, even if he did not directly engage with them.

  131. 131.

    different-church-lady

    @Geminid: You know who else performs with their back to the audience?

    No, not Hitler: conductors.

    And that’s what Miles was doing with his electric ensembles – conducting.

  132. 132.

    Mousebumples

    @Omnes Omnibus: Yeah, i suppose the Packers are unlikely to be good this year, but maybe Love will surprise me.

    @different-church-lady: At pub trivia championships one year, the final question was to sort 4 songs by the number of “Nah”s within them. Like “Hey Jude” and “Lovin, Touchin, Squeezin”. Lol, nearly impossible.

  134. 134.

    Brachiator

    @Steeplejack:

    There’s no evidence that Dylan was ever in any reform school.

    I heard that Dylan once shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die.

  138. 138.

    Quinerly

    @kalakal:

    I was a huge Van fan until I saw him at NOLA Jazz and Heritage Fest in the 1990’s. Closing act on one of two main stages. What an ass. Dressed all in black, layers in NOLA heat, complaining about the heat. No acknowledgement to the audience. Left the stage 15 minutes early. Of course, now that he is an anti vaxer, I have even less respect for him.

    Ah…Dylan…what can I say? I’m a huge fan…HUGE. Saw him at Jazz Fest after Van, probably early 2000’s. He was fantastic. I was right on the fence that divides the stage from the crowd. I could practically touch the stage. He really got into the show and the crowd. He had on a great western piped shirt, bell bottoms, snip toe cowboy boots, a bolo, and a Stetson. I am pretty sure he winked at me. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

  142. 142.

    Quinerly

    @AWOL:

    Leonard Cohen’s comment about Bob Dylan being awarded the Nobel Prize, “It’s like pinning a medal on Mount Everest for being the highest mountain.”

  144. 144.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:

    As a kid, my listening was mostly junk radio, Top 40 AM that played on transistor radios. The only Dylan songs I remember that crossed over onto those playlists were “Lay Lady Lay” and “Mr. Bojangles”, both of which I hated.

    It’s like forming one’s opinion of the Grateful Dead on the basis of “Touch of Gray.”  (Not criticizing that song, just noting that their lone top-10 song isn’t exactly representative of their work.)

  147. 147.

    Brachiator

    @kalakal:

    Van Morrison is another one who attended the Mildred Ratched Charm School…

    I always got the impression that Van battled with tremendous stage fright. There is a video of him performing with Them in the early sixties. His eyes are closed for almost the entire set.

  148. 148.

    JaneE

    I have to think that most of the audience remembers this music from the “oldies” shows.  If they have any interest in seeing the film they may only have stock footage to remember the artists from.  The disconnect between the real people and the actors portraying them may not be so jarring to them.

  149. 149.

    Kay

    I love poetry and I think Bob Dylan is a great poet. Everyone knows he’s a horrible singer- it was never about that. He’s a composer.
    I don’t see his rejection of being identified as the “voice” of a political or social movement as cynical- I think it’s a way to own his work and not let anyone hijack it – I admire it. I see the same thing in Ta-Nehisi Coates. You will not tell Coates what he is. He decides that.

  150. 150.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @kalakal: Now that’s something I can relate to. Saw VM in concert at some point during my college daze at Towson State College (now Towson University); at one point he turned his back on the audience and muttered What arseholes, loud enough (intentionally IMHO) for the mikes to pick it up. Guess we didn’t beat our hands to bloody pulp applauding loud and long enough.

  151. 151.

    Brachiator

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:

    As a kid, my listening was mostly junk radio, Top 40 AM that played on transistor radios.

    The transistor radio helped create post war pop culture. And Berry Gordy carefully crafted songs with thumping bass that would sound great on transistor radios, especially car radios.

  153. 153.

    Mousebumples

    @Omnes Omnibus: True. I’m more thinking of how even Aaron’s first year starting they went… 4-12? But the rest of the NFC North doesn’t look great either, so who knows, lol.

  155. 155.

    lowtechcyclist

    @The Thin Black Duke:

    Joni Mitchell is the real genius of that era in the 60s and beyond. Dylan isn’t worthy to light her cigarettes.

    I LOLed.

    I’ve never been keen on Joni, always felt she was doing all that frippery with her voice, sliding up and down the scale, in ways that didn’t seem to be here or there in relation to the song she was singing.

  156. 156.

    Kay

    I went to visit my youngest at college yesterday and he and his roommates are watching Twin Peaks- all the seasons. They’re all young men, all in engineering. I think they were telling me because I’m old and it was something we might have in common? Anyway. I never watched it. I just thought it was funny that they’ve latched onto that.

  157. 157.

    Steeplejack

    @Kay:

    Your relationship with that kid kills me. I loved when he was playing guitar in high school and he would clue you in about the old songs he was playing. 😹

  158. 158.

    Kay

    @Steeplejack:

    His roommates are sweet- friendly. I only gave him an hour’s notice that I was coming, they had all just gotten up and their house was a mess. He said “they” had a party the night before. I said “they? you smell like alcohol” and he looked  me right in the eye and said “it’s cologne”. Cologne. Please.

  159. 159.

    NotMax

    @Kay

    Twin Peaks always sounds like a proposal for a Jane Russell movie rattling around Howard Hughes’ eccentric brain to follow up Double Dynamite.
    :)

  160. 160.

    Geminid

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: It sounds like you missed the 60s. Dylan’s first radio hit was “Like a Rolling Stone” in 1965, and it hit the airwaves like a ton of bricks.

    The song came off the Highway 61 Revisited album. Thanks to producer Bob Johnston and musicians like Mike Bloomfield and Al Kooper, the sound was very new and dynamic.

    I read an interview with Al Kooper where he talked about his work on the album. The producer was holding try outs, and Kooper wanted the guitarist spot. Then he heard Mike Bloomfield play; “I decided I’d better try out on  keyboards instead.”

  162. 162.

    Kathleen

    @Maxim: Thank. You. I thought I was the only Baby Boomer who didn’t like Dylan and thought he was overrated. I was always ready to have my Baby Boomer Decoder Ring yanked summarily from my arthritic fingers.

  164. 164.

    Kathleen

    @The Thin Black Duke: Agreed. There was also a singer song writer from West Virginia named Billy Ed Wheeler who wrote some amazing songs about his home state, which were performed by among other Judy Collins and the Kingston Trio.

  166. 166.

    Geminid

    @Mousebumples: My parents were from Wisconsin, and I was a Packers fan growing up. I remember Bart Starr’s quarterback sneak that won the “Ice Bowl.” I think they went on that year to beat Kansas City in the first Super Bowl.

    Now I get my Packers news from Chicagoan Ragnarok Lobstser. He is a knowledgeable Green Bay fan, but he’s pretty cynical and pessimistic about his team in his typically sarcastic way.

  170. 170.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Kathleen:

    I do like Hendrix’s “All Along The Watch Tower”.

    Yeah, Hendrix still owns that song, even though he’s been dead for over half a century.

    @Geminid:

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: It sounds like you missed the 60s. Dylan’s first radio hit was “Like a Rolling Stone” in 1965, and it hit the airwaves like a ton of bricks.

    In all fairness, it depends on your age. I missed that entirely because I wasn’t listening to the radio at all yet, aside from the stations my parents would listen to in the car.  Dylan was just a name to me; I was aware (when I did start listening to pop music) that he wrote a number of The Byrds’ songs, but that was really it.

    I think the first time I ever heard a Dylan recording was one night when my older sister had left the radio on WHFS, and there was this guy who was singing all these other verses to “Mr. Tambourine Man” and I was just amazed by it all.  At the time, I didn’t even know it was Dylan singing, or even Dylan’s lyrics, but my mind, as people would have said back then, was blown.

  171. 171.

    Mousebumples

    @Omnes Omnibus: Fair enough. I didn’t check, so that was only off memory. If they get close to 0.500, I’ll call it a good season, frankly.

    @Geminid: I used to be more knowledgeable about the Packers details before kids. Now, I feel like I spend most of my time chasing them down, lol, so less time to follow the more minute details.

    But I’m like 10,000 on the season ticket waiting list, so… Maybe I’ll get tickets in another 50 years? 😜

  172. 172.

    Kay

    @NotMax:

    He’s my youngest by quite a bit so his friends parents are younger than I am. He seems to think my “youth culture” would be the 1990s, but I had small children in the 1990s and was insanely busy- I have no idea what people were watching. I’m not as bad as some parents. Two of the boys in the house are from rural Ohio and the other rural Ohio mom said “it’s like the United Nations in here!” meaning their house- my son told me this with this flat affect, just horrified. He said “they’re all Americans – she thinks they’re foreign students”. I hope they cancelled her! :)

  174. 174.

    hotshoe

    @Maxim:

    true, Dylan was a pretty man back then.

    I was of an age where I should have been a fan of the folkie Dylan — but I didn’t like him — still have to admit he was a good lookin’ man, whenever he didn’t have a cig and a frown to look cool

    Timothy Chalamet will look just like Dylan, once they muss up his curls, and then the only question will be: can he cover Dylan songs.

    I’m more interested in finding out if Bendy Cucumber can play the banjo well enough to pass for Pete Seeger.

  176. 176.

    Tehanu

    @lowtechcyclist: We call him “The Froom,” which is short for “Frumious Bandersnatch.”  Wonderful actor, though. I’ll be very interested in seeing him play Pete Seeger.

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