You can’t trust them:
White House officials and Republican negotiators are continuing to move closer to an agreement to raise the debt ceiling while also capping spending, two sources familiar with the matter said late Thursday.
The agreement is not yet finalized and there are a series of other outstanding issues beyond spending levels, with both sides especially far apart on work requirements for social safety net programs.
Under the potential agreement, the debt ceiling would be raised for two years while also capping federal spending — except for defense and veterans spending — for the same period, two sources familiar with the negotiations said.
A separate source who’s also familiar with negotiations said the two sides are still working out details on the length of the spending caps deal, which Democrats have insisted should only last for as long as a debt ceiling raise.
Based on current discussions, non-defense discretionary spending levels would be cut to a level slightly below funding levels for the current fiscal year.
Speaking of terrorists:
Stewart Rhodes, the founder and leader of the Oath Keepers, was sentenced to 18 years in prison on Thursday for leading a far-reaching plot to keep then-President Donald Trump in power after he lost the 2020 election.
A second Oath Keepers member, Kelly Meggs, the leader of the Florida contingent of the group, was sentenced to 12 years in prison.
The sentences are the first handed down in over a decade for seditious conspiracy.
“What we absolutely cannot have is a group of citizens who – because they did not like the outcome of an election, who did not believe the law was followed as it should be – foment revolution,” District Judge Amit Mehta said before handing down the sentence. “That is what you did.”
“I dare say, Mr. Rhodes – and I never have said this to anyone I have sentenced – you pose an ongoing threat and peril to our democracy and the fabric of this country,” Mehta said.
The judge added: “I dare say we all now hold our collective breaths when an election is approaching. Will we have another January 6 again? That remains to be seen.”
Mehta said Rhodes, 58, has expressed no remorse and continues to be a threat.
“A seditious conspiracy, when you take those two concepts and put it together, is among the most serious crimes an American can commit,” the judge said. “It is an offense against the government to use force. It is an offense against the people of our country.”
Earlier on Thursday, Mehta ruled that Rhodes’ actions amounted to domestic terrorism.
Oath Keepers, Three Percenters, Boogie Boys, Proud Boys- they’re all traitors and terrorists. The end.
oatler
How much stock can I put in this? It’s from the 24th:
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/5/24/2171164/-OMFG-BIDEN-GUTPUNCHED-MAGA-HOLY-SHIT-DARK-BRANDON-Dem-Caucus-delivers-knockout-blow-compromise
Old Man Shadow
Well, that debt ceiling talk is discouraging
It’s always one step forward, two steps back.
Baud
@oatler:
I’m a Biden fan but that sort of rhetoric turns me off.
MisterForkbeard
@oatler: It seems very silly to me
Geminid
@Old Man Shadow: I don’t know the contents of this proposed deal. But when I look at the totality of what this administration has done so far, I think it may be more like five steps forward, and one step back.
Redshift
@Old Man Shadow: I suppose the only saving grace is that there’s not going to be anything but continuing resolutions (flat federal spending) until the next Congress, so making flat spending levels our compromise position isn’t exactly a loss. But I don’t like it either.
Baud
If it weren’t for Ukraine, I’d be upset about defense spending being excluded.
sab
I have a dog who doesn’t agree with me politically. She is a dog, She doesn’ t care about pokltics. She cares about dogs and their owners.
different-church-lady
@oatler: Let’s not go to Daily Kos. It is a silly place.
different-church-lady
@sab: The thing I love about dogs is every time a dog sees another dog it acts like it’s the most astonishing thing that’s ever happened to a dog. “OMG!!! THAT’S ANOTHER DOG!!! HOW IS THIS EVEN HAPPENING!!!”
Joe Falco
Did the judge have the discretion to sentence Rhodes to the maximum of 25 years? If so, why didn’t that happen if the judge truly believes this seditious POS is that much of a threat to this nation?
Geminid
@Baud: Aid to Ukraine could fall outside the Pentagon budget. At least, $44 billion in military aid was a separate item in the Omnibus spending bill passed just before Christmas.
I don’t know how long that $44 billion will last, but there may need to be another appropriation passed this year, maybe as early as this summer.
mvr
Speaking of terrorists, Alito with the help of Roberts, Thomas, Conney-Barrett, and Gorsich (whose mom lost her job at EPA for hating the environment), on a theory that was just too much for even Kavanaugh, eviscerated the Clean Water Act. https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2023/05/25/supreme-court-epa-wetlands/
I can see no way of rehabilitating the reputation of the Supreme Court but to drive it as low as it can go. I’m sorry but when they do this shit there aren’t many options.
mvr
@Joe Falco: Mostly because the judge rightly saw that 18 years is a very long time in prison. Federal prison does not have parole. This guy will be old and withered when he gets out.
We’re not going to get needed sentencing reform if we all take our most hated example and call for the most extreme punishment. The judge in this case both made clear that he was as deserving of punishment as anyone, and still paid attention to the fact that we over-sentence.
HeleninEire
@Baud: Yeah but what we are giving to Ukraine is such a small portion of the military budget. Cut the military budget in half. We will not miss it. Raytheon and all those other contractors will miss it. But will it make a difference in our defence capabilities? Prolly not. Americans are dying of guns and horrible health care…neither of which are included in the military budget.
Baud
@HeleninEire:
I get that. But if Biden pushed for any cut to defense, it would give political cover to the GOP to slash Ukraine aid.
dmsilev
From WaPo, I don’t like this:
I mean, I guess it’s 8 steps forward 1 step back (times ten billion), but it still rankles.
Baud
If the deal is as described, McCarthy will have a tough time getting his caucus on board.
sdhays
@different-church-lady: In general I agree, but I find the articles written by kos and Mark Sumner on Ukraine interesting.
Before I never went there, but I stop by there now to see their Ukraine updates.
Baud
@dmsilev: I thought the $80 billion was over 10 years. The timescale here is still ambiguous.
If we get Congress back in 2025, this will be just a blip. And hopefully people will learn to stop voting for the GOP. (Haha).
Ken
@Baud: Remember that the President has a huge amount of power to move money around and spend it on whatever he wants. So he can take money out of defense and spend it on housing and education.
At least, that happened a few times during the former administration, with funds diverted to “the wall”.
dmsilev
@Baud: At least some of the caucus will probably try to depose him.
Ohio Mom
@oatler: I suppose that’s possible but I wouldn’t bet on it. Biden prides himself in being above board, he reminds us that’s what he’s about, so it’s hard for me to imagine him “pulling away that football” and going back on his word. Though the Republicans certainly deserve to be double-crossed.
I stand by what I’ve said before, I hated when bosses micromanaged me. I hired Biden to do a job, and so far he’s done more than fine, and if this is what he thinks it will take to avoid Armageddon, so be it.
I don’t know how to break this pattern and obviously, despite talks of platinum coins and the 14th amendment, neither does anybody else.
Baud
@dmsilev:
French Revolution style.
HeleninEire
@Baud: Yeah. I get it. But people like McConnell are abundantly clear about how important supporting Ukraine is.
I dunno.
Baud
@HeleninEire:
True. It’s a question of exactly how much the crazies are driving the GOP choo choo. I’m not sure I want to find out.
Omnes Omnibus
Let’s not freak out about how much of cave this is until we see what’s in it. Also, let’s see if McC can deliver his caucus’s votes.
HeleninEire
@Baud: Me either! And OT how great was it that the entire Democratic caucus laughed at Marge for asking for decorum? Made my day!
dmsilev
@Baud: The Revolution eats its own.
Timill
@Ohio Mom: Well, as I see it developing:
But steps 1 and 2 are essential to making step 3 look good.
Baud
@Timill:
I don’t know how likely it is for the discharge petition to come into play if the GOP caucus rejects the deal.
Baud
@HeleninEire:
She deserves no respect.
Manyakitty
@Geminid: it could be a lot worse.
Manyakitty
@Ohio Mom: I generally agree with you. I also think it’s possible to be an honest dealer and make several sets of plans. Handsome Joe saw this game before and I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt that kevin won’t roll him.
Soprano2
@dmsilev: Oh no, that’s bad. It will actually make the deficit bigger! They badly need upgrades, because they’ve been starved of funds for years.
Ruckus
@Joe Falco:
You have to take in all the details in to make a good decision here. His age, his health, and that he will lose likely all of his support by the end of his term. With no parole in federal lockup he’s there for the whole 18 yrs. In a state or county situation he might have gotten 25 yrs but served less than 18 if he paid attention and did not make the situation as bad as possible. Sure it’s not the max but it is the longest term so far for any defendant. He may not learn anything while in lockup but then maybe he’ll actually grow up and not be such a putz. Of course the disclaimer – I’m not holding my breath that he will learn anything whatsoever.
NotMax
@Soprano2
It’s $80 billion over 10 years. When Dems return to controlling both chambers (and with a D in the White House) they can resurrect the funding levels.
Tom Q
Assuming this deal as described passes — you never can tell, with McCarthy on permanent razor’s edge with his caucus — it’s a very cheap way out of the hostage situation. Not much that can’t be reversed by a change in Congressional control, with the debt ceiling issue put off till after the presidential election.
As O’Donnell pointed out the other day, Biden was going to have to do some budget-shaving in this Congress regardless, simply because of GOP control. This doesn’t amount to Republicans getting a ton, in that context. And Armageddon averted means a clean economy for Biden’s re-election.
cckids
As soon as we lost the House, some sort of deal/compromise was inevitable. The fact is that Squeaker M doesn’t command his caucus’s votes or their respect, and a sizeable group of them are dangerous morons. So if this deal is as bad as this gets, I’ll heave a sigh of relief.
The Thin Black Duke
Bottom line, politics ain’t an Aaron Sorkin screenplay. Progress is incremental, like it or not, and it never happens overnight. I trust Biden to do the best he can with the lousy hand he was dealt.
sab
@different-church-lady: That is every dog I ever had. My german shepherd was worse: Mom, look! It’s a DOG! Please can we bring it home with us!
raven
@different-church-lady: My Artie is a special case because of her abuse. She’s fine with dogs she knows at the dog park but can be really nasty with pups and other exuberant doggies.
zhena gogolia
@Geminid: RIGHT
The Repubs won the House. No Biden magic wand can undo that sad fact. He’s doing the best he can with the hand the voters dealt him.
zhena gogolia
@The Thin Black Duke: I should have read the thread before I made the same comment down below!
p.a.
My feeling mirrors the title of this post.
How long is the list of Republicans negotiating in good faith?
How long is the list of Republicans who don’t view compromise as weakness?
How long is the list of Republicans who won’t take this negotiation as a green light to invent reasons to blow up any other function of the federal gubmint?
Go 14th Amendment AND mint the coin AND invent some other fucking procedures (“we” do control the executive branch after all) to shut this shit down the way the “debt limit” was invented out of whole cloth. They’re going to try to gut the federal government anyway, somehow, they’re going to call Dems traitors anyway, they’re going to go on conservative media to rant and whine anyway, they’re going to call Biden an emperor anyway…
Ixnay
@sdhays: Indeed. After reading Adam here, I usually pop over there for more Ukraine.
Ixnay
@sdhays: Indeed. After reading Adam here, I usually pop over there for more Ukraine.