Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

It is possible to do the right thing without the promise of a cookie.

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

The low info voters probably won’t even notice or remember by their next lap around the goldfish bowl.

They love authoritarianism, but only when they get to be the authoritarians.

The poor and middle-class pay taxes, the rich pay accountants, the wealthy pay politicians.

The line between political reporting and fan fiction continues to blur.

You passed on an opportunity to be offended? What are you even doing here?

When I decide to be condescending, you won’t have to dream up a fantasy about it.

I desperately hope that, yet again, i am wrong.

Hell hath no fury like a farmer bankrupted.

After dobbs, women are no longer free.

This country desperately needs a functioning fourth estate.

Of course you can have champagne before noon. That’s why orange juice was invented.

If you voted for Trump, you don’t get to speak about ethics, morals, or rule of law.

Following reporting rules is only for the little people, apparently.

We cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation.

Thanks to your bullshit, we are now under siege.

Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.

Jack be nimble, jack be quick, hurry up and indict this prick.

Take hopelessness and turn it into resilience.

People are complicated. Love is not.

When you’re a Republican, they let you do it.

Since when do we limit our critiques to things we could do better ourselves?

Relentless negativity is not a sign that you are more realistic.

You are here: Home / Elections 2024 / The Oath Keepers officially include terrorists

Reader Interactions

241Comments

  6. 6.

    Anoniminous

    Rhodes is now off into Right Wingnut “I am a victim of Antifa” Speakifying.

    THAT’LL impress the judge!

    “Rhodes: “Antifa will throw bleach, urine and other substances you don’t want in your eyes” “Antifa will stab people” He’s arguing the OathKeepers wore “garb” on Jan 6 to defend themselves”

  7. 7.

    Omnes Omnibus

    We are looking at 20+ years here.  Gov’t is asking for 25.  I think they well get it.

  8. 8.

    Old School

    If you follow the thread of the tweet, Stewart Rhodes is speaking in his own defense right now.

  9. 9.

    Raoul Paste

    This guy is clearly around the bend.  His family will breathe a sigh of relief when they don’t have to fear him anymore.

  12. 12.

    Betty Cracker

    If I ran the zoo, a montage of people saying “you’ll shoot your eye out” in A Christmas Story would be projected into Rhodes’ cell 24/7/365. (He shot his eye out when he dropped a gun.

    PS: Anyone know when Rhodes’ fellow convicted seditionist Kelly Meggs will be sentenced? He lived in a town right up the road from me, so I take a special interest in his case and hope he’s a guest of the government for many years.

  13. 13.

    Anoniminous

    Disappointed at no mention of the Communist Conspiracy that is “Impurifying Our Precious Bodily Fluids.”

  17. 17.

    JPL

    It’s possible that Rhodes only did that in hopes of being pardoned by trump.   He knows that he’ll be sentenced to many years.

  19. 19.

    RaflW

    I feel like our two-parallel-countries thing is just intensifying. Target has knuckled under to what they see as credible terroristic threats against their employees, as wingers say they’ll attack the stores for daring to carry Pride merch. And meanwhile, terrorists are going to jail for J6 crimes.

    As I’ve said before (note, I’m not a cheerleader for chaos, but a worrier that it’s coming anyway), the tears in the core agreements of a functional society are getting worse, and at some point likely can’t just be repaired via normal means. The abnormal means of restoring our democracy, which we haven’t really done since 1865, are extremely undesirable, but may become unavoidable. J6 convictions notwithstanding.

  20. 20.

    NotMax

    @geg6

    First time the words “you just keep f*cking that chicken” drifted down from the bench loud enough to be taken down by the court reporter.
    :)

  21. 21.

    JPL

    @RaflW: I saw a clip of one of trump’s fans tearing up the rainbow sign and it made me sad.   He should have been prosecuted for destruction of property.

    Little grand-imp loves the displays.

  23. 23.

    Cacti

    @RaflW: Your concerns are valid. At this point I think we’re one national crisis away from the American experiment going tits up.

  24. 24.

    Anoniminous

    Well this looks good

    “Judge discusses history of seditious conspiracy, dating back to Civil War era “A seditious conspiracy… is among the most serious crimes an individual American can commit. It’s an offense against the government, to use force. It’s an offense against the people of the country”

  27. 27.

    PAM Dirac

    @Anoniminous: And this:

    Judge: “What we cannot have is a group of citizens… who because they didn’t like the outcome of the election… are then prepared to take up arms to foment a revolution. That’s what you did.”

     
    ETA: And this too!

    Judge says: “You still present an ongoing threat and a peril to this country”

  28. 28.

    eversor

    @brantl:

    That is what happened.  You’d think these idiots would be all for mandatory classes as there are entire youtube montages of morons shooting themselves or other things and then falling out of their chair and the gun going off again but we can’t have that can we.

  31. 31.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @eversor: I’m reminded of the Carlin joke:

    Think of a person you know who you consider to be average in every way. Now consider that half of everyone on the planet is more inept than that guy.

    Modified: and they all are being encouraged to own several guns.

  34. 34.

    Anoniminous

    18 years?

    18 FUCKING YEARS for “a seditious conspiracy… is among the most serious crimes an individual American can commit.”

    Nice to be white.

  36. 36.

    eversor

    @RaflW:

    We have never had a core agreement on our society though.  What we had was a White Christian Supremecy mono culture.  While that was the case, the right was OK with things.

    That changed.   The younger generation does not agree with the twin evils of White Supremacy and Christianity.   For the right race and religion are what matter.   And if these are rejected than they must be enforced.  If they cannot be enforced than the nation, it’s ideals, and democracy have failed and must be destroyed.   Listen to Barr, Alito, Dreher, any of them and they will keep telling you that the only thing that matters is Christianity.   Nothing else does.   So if democracy does not produce, keep, and enforce Christianity it has to go.

    We are in a religious civil war wether people want to accept that or not.  The right has been very clear that Christianity and democracy are not compatible at all if people can simply vote away the patriarchy, brutality, heirarchy that even Christ himself demanded.

    There’s no getting out of this.   When this ends someones religions, ideas, and speech is getting banned with criminal penalties and going to be viewed as worse than the confederacy.  The question is which side comes out on the top.  And pretending that outcome can be avoided is working for the other side.

  38. 38.

    feebog

    Rhodes is 58.  You don’t get much time off for good behavior under federal charges.  He will be in his mid-70s before he gets out.

  40. 40.

    Citizen Alan

    @RaflW:

    A very close friend of mine is the lovings tip father of a transchild who works at corporate for target. And he is just livid and heart sick over this.

  41. 41.

    Wapiti

    @brantl: dropped the loaded gun, while cleaning it.

    I always translate that on the fly to “was fucking around with a loaded gun; his finger was on the trigger and the weapon was not on safe.”

    He might have been practicing quick-draws, or spinning the weapon on his finger, or some other stupid shit. I expect 95%+ weapon cleaning incidents have nothing to do with cleaning the weapon.

  43. 43.

    Jay

    @Anoniminous:

    they tend to add in the parole possibilities and the age of the defendant when considering sentencing.

    So, 9 years minimum, which would make Rhodes 66 when eligible for parole, 75 if he is a shitty Federal Inmate, maybe longer if he keeps criming in prison, (which he probably will).

  44. 44.

    Roger Moore

    @brantl:

    I believe that he dropped the loaded gun, while cleaning it.

    That’s the story, anyway. I suspect a lot of those “I made a mistake while cleaning my gun” stories are made up to explain something worse.

  45. 45.

    satby

    @JPL: 18 years plus 3 more on supervision after release. I was hoping for the full 27, but 18 isn’t a minor slap on the wrist either.

  46. 46.

    C Stars

    @Citizen Alan: I am too. I have been a pretty loyal Target customer for the last five years BECAUSE of their Pride-forward marketing strategy. I always get my kids tee shirts from their annual Pride collections. There’s a city Target within walking distance of my house, and Target ordering was my go-to alternative to amazon, so I am probably what you would call a heavy user. I am going to have to find another place, I guess. Well, I’ll save a lot of money 🙃

  49. 49.

    Westyny

    I imagine he’ll be treated with some respect by white prison gangs and will probably come out unrepentant. OTOH, prison diet and and his entering health issues could him in.  All provided that a Republican President-elect doesn’t pardon him along with all the other insurrectionists. 🤷‍♂️

  51. 51.

    Roger Moore

    @Wapiti:

    I always translate that on the fly to “was fucking around with a loaded gun; his finger was on the trigger and the weapon was not on safe.”

    And there was a round in the chamber.  One thing I absolutely loathe about today’s gun culture is the idea that guns must always be carried with a round chambered.  It’s not too bad for a gun like the 1911 with a separate safety, but for something like a Glock, it’s asking for negligent discharges.

  52. 52.

    Jackie

    Reposting from probably dead thread.

    Governor Abbott has a *Happy Anniversary* gift for Uvalde and other Texas elementary school children.😡

    “Texas parents raised concern this week after their elementary-aged children came home with a Winnie the Pooh cartoon book that instructed them to “run, hide, fight” in the event of a mass shooting at their school, the Oak Cliff Advocate reported.

    A consulting firm for law enforcement based outside of Dallas reportedly created the comic book, titled “Stay Safe,” which features each of the characters from Winnie the Pooh’s Hundred Acre Wood using their unique skills to show how students can protect themselves during a school shooting.
    “If danger is near, do not fear, HIDE like Pooh does until the police appear,” the book instructs, according to images shared by parents with the Advocate. “If it is safe to get away, we should RUN like Rabbit instead of stay.”

    The book was reportedly distributed around the first anniversary of the mass shooting in Uvalde, in which 19 children and two teachers were murdered in their classrooms.“

    https://themessenger.com/news/texas-schoolkids-sent-home-with-winnie-the-pooh-book-teaching-them-to-run-hide-fight-in-school-shooting

  53. 53.

    The Thin Black Duke

    Rhodes is an old, half-blind, out-of-shape guy who’s going to be locked up for at least ten years. He’s not going to have a good time. I’ll take it.

  54. 54.

    Jay

    @C Stars:

    keep in mind, Target hasn’t cancelled profiting from Pride with merch,

    they have just removed some items that are a special trigger for the terrorists, and relocated some of the displays further back in the store for customer and staff safety.

    It’s a difficult choice when terrorists are threatening a mass shooting event.

    And of course, it will vary by store, based on the local threat level, which given the internet, may not be local.

    I worked retail through 3 Prides and 3 MMMIGC days, and even staff that just wore the tiny pins on their aprons, were threatened and harassed. I put up all the flags, wore shirts proudly, built and installed a memorial,

    and kept a f’n shingle hatchet by the till to deal with assholes if needed. And I am a “fit like” old scary white male, (privledge card out the wazoo), and, this is Vancouver, Canada, not ‘Merkin Hollow 35401.

  58. 58.

    Jay

    @Roger Moore:

    my Dad carried a .38 Special S&W  double action revolver on the job for years. Rules were, empty.

    Load it when you need it, 5 in the chambers, one empty, keep the hammer on the empty chamber.

    That way, (hammer on empty), a fall, a strike, a drop, all which might happen when engaged in stopping violent crime, won’t result in an accidental discharge.

    But then, he went 20 years with out having to draw his gun, after The Ride, never had to ride a horse again, and stopped a violent armed Bank robbery by a notorious Quebec Gang with words and Red Serge.

  59. 59.

    Omnes Omnibus

    Let’s see what Meggs gets.  Might be the difference between being in the Capitol and not.

  60. 60.

    Betty Cracker

    I understand the anger at Target. I also understand why people were pissed off that the organizers cancelled Tampa Pride in the Park last weekend. But I’m not sure what the answer is.

    Target says it was a safety issue — their employees were afraid. Should Target put people who make less than $20 an hour on the front line of the lunatic culture war raging in some states?

    The Tampa Pride organizers were afraid DeSantis goons would swoop in and persecute participating businesses if someone’s kid caught a glimpse of side-boob. It’s a valid fear because it’s happened before — businesses have lost liquor licenses, etc.

    It makes me sick that this is happening too, but based on the facts I know, I’m not sure it makes sense to be mad at Target. What should they have done?

    ETA: According to an article in AP I read yesterday, Target didn’t stop selling Pride merch; they aren’t displaying it prominently in stores now.

  61. 61.

    JBWoodford

    Given that his attorney sorta threw Trump under the bus in his closing argument, a pardon may not be forthcoming even if Trump (God forbid) was in a position to offer one .

  62. 62.

    Anonymous At Work

    @Omnes Omnibus: Yup, 18 years for leading a seditious conspiracy but not committing any violence yourself.  And he’s going to be ancient when he gets out.  He’ll probably lose veterans’ benefits too, but someone check me on that?

  63. 63.

    brendancalling

    @satby: Like this:

    Dear Investor Relations:

    I have been a loyal Target customer for many years, shopping at your Castor Avenue in Philadelphia. I am also the parent of a transgender child. Today I learned that Target buckled to right wing goons and is “taking some LGBTQ-themed merchandise off the shelves after “threats impacting our team members’ sense of safety and wellbeing.” (Source).

    So let me get this straight: when there is profit to be made from LGBTQ+ customers, Target is right at the front of the parade with rainbow flags and pride t-shirts. But the minute some homophobic goon says “boo,” Target is running for the exits. Some ally you are.

    I will NEVER shop at your stores again. And, I will be spreading the word about what a horrible ally Target is. Take your pinkwashing and shove it where the sun doesn’t shine, Target. My child doesn’t need fake friends like you.

    Go to Hell, Target—and don’t come back.

    Yours,
    Brendan Skwire

    You can reach Target at [email protected]

  64. 64.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Jay: I had a girlfriend whose grandfather carried a saturday night special in his back pocket every day when he went to work or came home – he owned an auto shop in a not-great part of town and frequently worked late nights and early mornings. He loaded it before leaving and unloaded it when he arrived.

    Dude never had to even draw it, from what I remember. But it was riding on his ass for 20 years, and the coolest thing about this was that the gun was literally worn smooth on one side from the friction of being put into his jeans twice a day for 20 years straight. Still worked well, too.

  65. 65.

    geg6

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Yes, it seems something that could make his sentence different.  Staying outside must be how Rhodes put that Yale law degree to work.  Too bad, that’s all he learned apparently.  Or Yale Law is just that shitty.

  66. 66.

    JPL

    In not really shocking news

    The Florida mom who sought to ban Amanda Gorman’s poem says she’s sorry for promoting the Protocols of the Elders of Zion

  67. 67.

    Betty Cracker

    @brendancalling: Great letter! I didn’t know they’d removed merch when I commented at #60 — the AP article I read said they’d moved it from front of store displays to less prominent locations, which was bad enough but done for safety, or so they claimed…

  69. 69.

    Geminid

    @Wapiti: This is off the topic, but the other day you mentioned that you were impressed by Alaska Rep. Mary Peltola. I wanted to tell you about an interesting article about the Congresswoman from January 6, titled “Mary Peltola and the Art of Yuuyaraaqqing.” It was written by Rhonda McBride and published by Alaska Public Radio.

    Yuuyaraaq is the moral code of Ms. Peltola’s Yup’ik Native community. The writer quotes several Alaska Natives speaking of how Yuuyaraaq was conditioned by the severe Arctic environment and the neccesity for cooperation among people living there.

    The reporter asked Ms. Peltola about the relationship of her tribe’s ethos to her job. She felt that the intense personal striving of her election campaign was not entirely consistent with Yuuyaraaq’s communitarian values,

        …But Peltola said that one part of her job is the essence of Yuuyaraaq.

    “Really thinking about other people and thinking about the community, thinking about the knowledge that has been passed on to you.”

    And Yuuyaraaq has other teachings Peltola finds helpful.

    “One if the best ones is to have a sense of humor, and to find humor in the moment. So much of life is enjoying the moment.”

    The article also has an nice picture of Rep. Peltola standing on some marble steps inside the Capitol. Anticipating being sworn in to the new Congress, she’s wearing a black kuspuk dress, mukluk boots and a big smile.

  71. 71.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    As much as I understand the anger at Target, I get where they’re coming from.  The safety of their stores is a higher order priority than expressing a virtue, whether sincerely held or not.

    This country needs to get serious about preventing and prosecuting domestic terrorism.

  72. 72.

    JPL

    @brendancalling: I wish that the news media would point out that they are going after all gays.   The Pride symbol is inclusive.  Even when DeSantis talks about gender identity, it’s clear he is going after all.

  75. 75.

    C Stars

    @brendancalling: Thank you for the address. I will write them. I have already messaged them on social media but that was very frustrating because I got an automated reply directed toward the anti-LGBTQ terrorists! (Basically, we are sorry we offended you by having certain products in our store)

    I’m the parent of a trans kid as well and I’m not irate; I understand the calculation that went into this decision. But as a mom I just don’t know that I can go into a store that decided my child’s rights and visibility and physical self was a bargaining chip to be used in a culture war. Of course I know that Target’s pride stuff was self-serving, but the fact that they really went for it, even recruited LGBTQ+ designers etc., really made me like the store or develop some kind of brand loyalty or whatever you call it. It makes me so sad that the loyalty doesn’t go both ways.

  78. 78.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Jay: Perfect. Engaged respectfully, got their point across, didn’t escalate. No notes

    Bonus points for claiming Satan.

  79. 79.

    JPL

    We might need another post from Adam on how to effectively fight back.   Just like trump used globalism, in order to get elected, republican candidates will use whatever necessary.   DeSantis on fox said the blacks that worked for him were qualified, but before then blacks just were part of a quota.

  82. 82.

    Jay

    @Betty Cracker:

    some items in some stores have been removed, (bathing suits), displays have been moved further into the stores for customer and staff safety. Security, (not Property Loss) at some stores has been increased or added.

    The terrorists have succeeded to the point where armed anti-terrorist SWAT teams are now a requirement for safe shopping.

  83. 83.

    gene108

    @Cacti:

    Your concerns are valid. At this point I think we’re one national crisis away from the American experiment going tits up.

    We’re just a few years of unified Republican rule in D.C. before going tits up. They control one House of Congress and are willing to risk the credit of this country to gain some perceived political advantage.

    A unified Republican government in D.C. will be like this but with fewer guardrails on them to send the U.S. off a cliff into non-superpower status.

    They can’t live with accepting blame for ruining America, so they’ll look for people to blame. And thus the Race Wars begin to purge the country of wreckers and undesirables.

  84. 84.

    patrick II

    @PAM Dirac:

    The sentence guidelines are often less for a “first offense”, although that makes little sense to me in these cases. How many violent insurrections do we plan on having? Do we want to give them a chance for a second offense?  Then, evidently, we will drop the boom on them.

  85. 85.

    Soprano2

    @Roger Moore: My husband has an acquaintance who was in Special Forces. He got shot in the stomach by his own weapon; he claimed it was on the front seat of his truck and his dog accidentally made it go off. Just not believable, he probably had a stupid accident and made that up.

  86. 86.

    Captain C

    @Anoniminous:

    Rhodes is now off into Right Wingnut “I am a victim of Antifa” Speakifying.

    “I am a victim of antifascists” isn’t the winning argument that its users seem to think it is.  For me as the judge or on the jury, it’s more of a reason to enhance the sentence.

    “Those antifascists attacked me!”

    “Why is that?”

    “Um, um, they hate freedom, as do you, Your Dishonor!”

    “OK, that’ll be a max sentence…”

    (Although let’s face it, such public wankifying is probably mainly for the purpose of raising funds.)

  87. 87.

    The Thin Black Duke

    In the Scooby Doo spinoff, Velma, the lead character (who is Indian in this series) says, “I wish I was a white serial killer so I knew what it felt like.” Until America takes prosecuting white terrorists seriously, this bullshit is only going to escalate.

  88. 88.

    Captain C

    @brantl:

    I believe that he dropped the loaded gun, while cleaning it. Not the picture of competency that these dildos try to project.

    I haven’t handled a gun since I was in middle school, at summer camp, but I’d like to think I’m smart enough to make damn sure that any gun I was cleaning had no bullets anywhere near it.  Of course, as noted elsewhere in this thread, it’s probably a lame excuse, perhaps to make sure that the insurance company didn’t reject the claim on the grounds of terminal stupidity.

  89. 89.

    Roger Moore

    @Jay:

    I see the desire to carry with a round chambered as just one more example of the gun crazies’ fantasy world.  They’re sure they’re going to be the heroic good guy with a gun who stops the bad guy with a gun, and that means they have to be ready for a shootout at the drop of a hat.  Even the second or two it would take to chamber a round might be the difference between life and death, so they have to carry their guns ready to shoot.  Their decision making isn’t built around a sensible evaluation of the likelihood of needing to use their gun, so they accept a massive increase in the chances of a negligent discharge in exchange for a tiny advantage in the incredibly rare case they might need to fire their gun in anger.

  90. 90.

    Captain C

    @geg6:

    Or Yale Law is just that shitty.

    Several of the current members of the SCOTUS lend strong evidence to that theory.

  93. 93.

    Roger Moore

    @patrick II: ​
     

    The sentence guidelines are often less for a “first offense”, although that makes little sense to me in these cases. How many violent insurrections do we plan on having?

    First offense doesn’t mean it’s your first time committing that specific crime; it means you haven’t been convicted of anything before. It kind of makes sense in the general case, though maybe not for criminals who jump straight to very severe offenses like seditious conspiracy.

  95. 95.

    sdhays

    @Captain C: One of the many things about the country’s tolerance of gun culture is the acceptance of “accidents”. To my mind, accidents should almost(?) guarantee suspension of any gun license and confiscation of any firearms until you can prove you can actually responsibly take care of a gun.

    And accidents shouldn’t just be limited to guns going off when they’re not supposed to. That asshat school principle who left his fucking gun in the washroom for a 3rd grader to find should have lost access to firearms, not just his job.

  97. 97.

    Hungry Joe

    As someone whose parents were store owners — and I myself worked a lot of retail in my younger days — I can sympathize/empathize, somewhat, with Target:  Should they have declared, “We’re going to stand up for what’s right by putting our employees at risk”? Well, maybe; you can make that argument, although be unwise to put it like that, however accurate it may be. Remember when bookstores and their employees were threatened when Salman Rushdie’s “The Satanic Verses” was published? I admired stores that displayed it proudly, defiantly … but I understood why some didn’t.

    In short, no easy answers here. I lean against Targets’ backing down, but I feel just a little unsteady on my feet.

  98. 98.

    gene108

    @Betty Cracker:

    We have actual evidence that someone can walk into a Wal-Mart and murder a couple of dozen people because he’s mad at minorities, or ten in a grocery store.

    I can’t blame Target for not wanting to invite trouble, and the fear for customers and staff is a legitimate concern.

  99. 99.

    patrick II

    @Roger Moore:

    I was trying to be ironic (I hope) in the citing of future insurrections.  A crime this serious deserves the max. First-offense mass murderers don’t get a break.  Neither should these guys.

    Actually, now that I think about it, they didn’t actually bring ar-15’s inside congress, so I guess you have to leave room for even worse transgressions?

  101. 101.

    glory b

    @C Stars: Target is i a tough spot, as these peple were also physically assaulting store staff members. I understand that they emove some things & moved other things around.

    Unfortunately, this doesn’t bode well for Black History Month, Women’s History Month, etc.

  104. 104.

    JPL

    In other news, (from Business Insider)

    Rep. Lauren Boebert’s son called 911 in December to report that his father, Jayson Boebert, had gotten physical with him and was “throwing” him around the house and that he didn’t know why.

    Minutes after the call ended — while Garfield County Sheriff’s Office deputies were on their way to their home — the teen called again to take the accusations back, with Lauren Boebert jumping on the phone to say her son “doesn’t need help.”

    It might be time to take away the guns.

  106. 106.

    PAM Dirac

    @Hungry Joe:

     

    I lean against Targets’ backing down, but I feel just a little unsteady on my feet.

    I think security of employees and shoppers should be highest priority, but if a combination of store security and law enforcement aren’t enough to provide a reasonable level of safety isn’t the closing the store the thing to do? What’s the evidence that if they give in to thugs’ threat of violence then everything will be fine? It certainly won’t be fine for LBGT employees/shoppers, but it’s pretty clear they don’t count. It just seems to me that it is a pathetic need to normalize right wing violence and pretend that business can continue as long as the “special interests” realize that they have to tone it down. All in their own interests, of course.

  108. 108.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    18 years in this prison, 18 years in that prison and pretty soon you’re doing serious time

  109. 109.

    JPL

    @PAM Dirac: They might take that as a win.   The terrorists want to hurt Target’s bottom line.

    Maybe announce that you have to clear the store temporarily because of an unruly customer.

  110. 110.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    @JPL: ​
      Nothing some good ole fashion school prayer couldn’t fix

  111. 111.

    Gravenstone

    @JPL: Sincerely hope the kids survive their parents. Because I get the sense they’re just one ‘roid rage moment away from becoming a statistic.

  112. 112.

    JPL

    @Gravenstone: They have to remove the guns.   The kids have already had some problematice behavior including a car accident when possible drugs were used.

  113. 113.

    Jay

    @PAM Dirac:

    Store Security is Stop Loss. They arn’t armed, can’t do much except call 911. As a Store Employee who had a half dozen physical altercations with customers, I was well aware that physically defending myself, a customer or another employee, was a firing offense.

    And up here, we don’t have crazies feeling the need to bring an AR-15 to a Box Store.

    Unless Target want’s to accept the costs of a mass shooting, a store blowing up and the problem of hiring minimum wage employees as cannon fodder, this is the best they can do.

    The terrorists have won.

  115. 115.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Jay:

    I work in a grocery store fwiw. If this was my employer, I’d want them to stand up for what’s right and tell these right-wing goons to go pound sand. Who’s to say the worst won’t happen anyway, regardless of what Target corporate decides.

    ETA: It won’t just stop with Pride Month. Will they knuckle down the next time? Like, part of me understands why Target decided to do this, but they’re giving into terrorists

  116. 116.

    What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?

    @Betty Cracker: To stick with A Christmas Story as a theme, the best way to understand today’s Republican party is they’re Grover Dills all the way down and they’re deciding whether they need a new Scut Farkas or if they want to stick with the current model.

  117. 117.

    Immanentize

    @Omnes Omnibus: I wish people would come to understand that the federal system has no parole — it was eliminated for convictions after 1987 (a long time ago!) The best one can hope for is a halfway house placement a few years before the end of one’s sentence with supervised release until the end of the sentence. Or, maybe if Rhodes gets very sick unto death, compassionate release. Prison life is hard, even in fed lock up and even if you are relatively protected from the worst types of violence.

  119. 119.

    Nelle

    I watched the video from 2014 of John McCain talking about Putin, Russia, and Ukraine.  He absolutely nailed it when he said that the US and Europe failed to support Ukraine because they didn’t want to provoke Putin.  But that showing that weakness is in itself provocation for Putin.  (Now I need to go wash after agreeing with McCain).

    Every book banned,  every product removed, every new restriction on abortion or on LGBTQ is incentive for more, more, more.  Like their apparent role model, they are excited by what they smell as weakness. Their monstrous hate will not be appeased; it demands continual feeding and apparently we are the desired meat.

    Still, I’m saddened, not furious at 🎯 ‘s decision. We need to build the community that will have their backs.  The reality now is that it is easier to ban poetry and books, than weapons of war.

  120. 120.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation:
    And one of the many things that pisses me off about our “institutions” is that TIA (Total Information Awareness) really did become a thing, just by another name. The FBI, NSA, and other alphabet groups know the identities of these loons. If we had to political will to call a terrorist a terrorist, and apply the laws that are already on the books, all of this would go away over one hot summer.

  121. 121.

    PAM Dirac

    @Jay: I just think the response would be very different if it was, say, Muslim terrorists demanding fundamentalist Muslim beliefs  being enforced. There wouldn’t be any hiding Christian symbols in the back or trying to appease the terrorists or trying to continue to do business as usual. I appreciate that Target can’t take on the fight by itself and local law enforcement might not be willing to be of much help, but Target has made clear that they care more about keeping the money flowing than pushing back on the terrorists. That’s their decision, but I don’t see why I should feel any responsibility to support it or even sympathize with it.

  122. 122.

    Jay

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    I have the same sentiments, but,………

    I spent 3 weeks over the last couple years, testifying in court, and one lawsuit. The Corp backed me, which many don’t. I still have one to go, and the Corp fired my ass a year ago, so we will see if they show up or not.

    In some areas of the US, there is not much a Corp can do, in regards to security, other than to GTFO, because the terrorist’s rights supercede every one elses, until after the mass shooting.

    At the early onset of Covid, the Corp I worked for, set a Covid Plan, so based on what was known at the time, only 100 customers could be in the store at any one time. So, as an “essential Service” we had massive line ups, (we set up outdoor covered walkways so people were out of the rain), kept count at both doors  (in and out) and put people who had no fucks left to give, because that year’s fuck crop had failed, at the doors.

    Yeah, it was a PITA for the Customer, some of the Staff, but we wern’t swept with Covid until a year later, and everything was “relaxed”.

    Now, if it were me, (and it’s never going to be me), I would install metal detectors at the doors, one way in, one way out, pack searches, give staff body armour and helmets, have a visible “Rapid Reaction Force” both inside and our,  and ensure that everyone who came through the doors, knew exactly why, “we have to do this”, ( at the door, online, attached to every digital coupon, security status instead of crappy 80’s pop, (not Tina), (oh, and upsell buy online, pick up in lot and door delivery).

  123. 123.

    Steve in the ATL

    @PAM Dirac: “You still present an ongoing threat and a peril to this country”

    Jeez–ANOTHER thread about Omnes?!

  125. 125.

    Jay

    @PAM Dirac:

    as Target has said, their key driver is keeping Customers and Staff safe.

    How would you go about doing it, keeping in mind, it’s a supersweep of nutjobs from QAnon, Anti-Vaxx, Nazi’s and MAGAT’s, and includes several Senators, Governors and Reps?

  126. 126.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @Soprano2:

    he claimed it was on the front seat of his truck and his dog accidentally made it go off. Just not believable, he probably had a stupid accident and made that up.

    Wait, what? What could be stupider than “My dog shot me…”?

  127. 127.

    Immanentize

    @JPL: meh. In the middle of grading which I really hate and resist. Why do I make my so many students write so many essays? 😊

    Immp was home last week for his annual tests and scans. Still no cancer (now year four). So a huge relief again. But that week of tests and waiting is so Damn stressful for both of us — for related but different reasons. When I see people declare themselves “cancer free” (like Raskin just recently did) I can’t help but think — don’t fool yourself, no one is ever free  after a visit from the Big C.

  128. 128.

    eversor

    @cckids:

    Not entirely true.   There have been lawsuits over rifles and pistols where manufacturing errors caused them to fire when they should not have.  The companies involved had to fix and recall them.  So it does happen.

    But the reverse of this is that people buy weapons they have no business using.  The best example is that most modern pistols do not have a “safety” in the sense most non gun owners think.  They have a trigger “dingus”.  So rather than a manual switch on the side, the safety is on the trigger.  This sounds insane but the reason for it was military reasons.  It’s faster to deploy, and since people aren’t holstering their weapons with the safety off it reduces the chances of an accidental discharge (which do happen) or it going off when dropped in the middle of a fire fight.

    So yeah, for the military it makes total sense.  Faster and safer!  What’s not to like!  But what happens is obvious to anyone with half a brain.  All these idiots are buying up GLOCKs and the like with no formal training on it, not practicing trigger discipline, and forever shooting themselves with themselves or blasting things they didn’t intend to.

    Along those lines, and as stated before, there are plenty of guns that had defects which would cause them to go off at random.  That’s part of the reason for the entire “don’t point it at something you don’t want dead”.  However there are different triggers in terms of how sensitive they are and how much pressure they require to engage.  Which is fine, if you have a job that needs quick shooting.  Of course what happens is all these maniacs get fast triggers made for military people and end up blasting themselves.

    There’s really a perfect storm of all this “tatical high speed low drag” stuff and a swath of untrained morons, or unsecured guns around kids, which leads to all sorts of carnage and self owns.  While these upgrades are safe in the hands of someone like myself or the other large amount of people on this website who were in the military and had formal training they aren’t for people who never had to go through that.

    Which gets to the next massive issue on this.   Because all these nutters want what the military uses the vast majority of stuff out on the market uses all this stuff.   None of this stuff has any business in the civilian market and pretty much has “blow your foot off” stamped on the box.   It also causes chaos like when the military moved from the old Berreta to the new SIG.  Turns out the SIG had an issue which would cause it to fire at random.  But the wannabe a Navy SEAL crowd bought them all up and who knows how many were fixed/replaced and how many defectives are still out there.

    All of this is why I don’t buy into the “assault rifle bans will fix our gun violence issue” because it’s much larger than that.  What we really need to do is restrict stuff to bolt action rifles, shotguns, and revolvers.   With anything else not “banned” but you have to prove you are trained up on the thing and have, or had, a legitimate professional/occupation reason to have it.

  130. 130.

    rikyrah

    @gene108:

    I can’t blame Target for not wanting to invite trouble, and the fear for customers and staff is a legitimate concern

     

    I can. Because, these muthaphuckas aren’t going to stop at Pride.

    Stand up to these bullies.

    Who the phuck do they think actually shops at Target?

  131. 131.

    rikyrah

    @PAM Dirac:

    I think security of employees and shoppers should be highest priority, but if a combination of store security and law enforcement aren’t enough to provide a reasonable level of safety isn’t the closing the store the thing to do? What’s the evidence that if they give in to thugs’ threat of violence then everything will be fine? It certainly won’t be fine for LBGT employees/shoppers, but it’s pretty clear they don’t count. It just seems to me that it is a pathetic need to normalize right wing violence and pretend that business can continue as long as the “special interests” realize that they have to tone it down. All in their own interests, of course

     

    Let that have been Black folks making a fuss.

    The phucking police would have been called in a nanosecond.

    Which is what should happen to these hate-filled clowns.

  133. 133.

    Immanentize

    @Jay: I thought the best PR move that Target could have done was to explain the very serious threats of violence it had received, indicated that they were working with law enforcement to prosecute the criminals assaulting their workers, then say they would donate all the merch that was being used to support criminal violence to any Pride group that wanted it for free community distribution.

  134. 134.

    rikyrah

    @Immanentize:

    Immp was home last week for his annual tests and scans. Still no cancer (now year four). So a huge relief again. But that week of tests and waiting is so Damn stressful for both of us — for related but different reasons. When I see people declare themselves “cancer free” (like Raskin just recently did) I can’t help but think — don’t fool yourself, no one is ever free  after a visit from the Big C.

     

    Glad for the news about Little Imma :)

  135. 135.

    Immanentize

    @Jay: generative AI is just a bullshit generator. It is auto(in)correct, word by word, until a reasonable facsimile of human writing is produced. It has no understanding of it’s product’s truth, accuracy or morality.

    Also!: Every lawyer will be using Generative AI in about three years.

  136. 136.

    eversor

    @patrick II:

    Rhodes blew his eye out with the casing ejected from a pistol that fired off because he cleaned it while it was not just loaded, but chambered.  Which is just…. I don’t know.

  139. 139.

    Roger Moore

    @PAM Dirac:

    I just think the response would be very different if it was, say, Muslim terrorists demanding fundamentalist Muslim beliefs being enforced. There wouldn’t be any hiding Christian symbols in the back or trying to appease the terrorists or trying to continue to do business as usual.

    If it were Muslim terrorists doing this, the store wouldn’t have to do anything but relay the threats to the feds, and the feds would take care of it.  It’s clear that a terrorist who has enough public support gets treated very differently from one who doesn’t.

  140. 140.

    Jay

    @rikyrah:

    having been on the end of the hate filled clowns violence several times for minimum wage, I can’t agree, and I have all the “privileges”. old, white, cis het.

    Ever have to stop a co-worker from bleeding out because of one of those nut jobs?

    I have.

    I do not recommend it.

  142. 142.

    Immanentize

    @JPL: Yes, he will be a senior next year! He has finished his philosophy major requirements but still has two more classes for his Comp Sci Eng. Major. Plus one semester language requirement from Gen Ed. He is taking Intro to Ancient Hebrew.

    As Allan Sherman said, “My Son the Nut.”

    ETA He has declared himself done with school for a while. He wants to get into the working world. My diminishing bank account salutes his choice!

  143. 143.

    NotMax

    Explanation (with documentation) of federal sentencing guidelines. Link should be cued up to 13:40, the beginning of the relevant portion.

  144. 144.

    Old School

    WASHINGTON, May 25 (Reuters) – U.S. President Joe Biden and top congressional Republican Kevin McCarthy on Thursday appeared to be nearing a deal to cut spending and raise the government’s $31.4 trillion debt ceiling, with little time to spare to head off the risk of default.

    The deal would specify the total amount the government could spend on discretionary programs like housing and education, according to a person familiar with the talks, but not break that down into individual categories. The two sides are just $70 billion apart on a total figure that would be well over $1 trillion, according to another source.

  145. 145.

    Jay

    @Immanentize:

    that would work, if local Law Enforcement gave a shit. Probably half the threats in some places are coming from “local law enforcement”.

  148. 148.

    Roger Moore

    @Jay: ​
     

    Now, if it were me, (and it’s never going to be me), I would install metal detectors at the doors, one way in, one way out, pack searches, give staff body armour and helmets, have a visible “Rapid Reaction Force” both inside and our, and ensure that everyone who came through the doors, knew exactly why, “we have to do this”

    The analogy to COVID is flawed, because COVID was everywhere, so customers couldn’t get convenience and low risk simultaneously. Some stores relaxed their rules faster than others, but that just wound up sorting customers into people who cared about safety and ones who cared about convenience. In the case of Target, though, they have a unique risk. If they take necessary security precautions to mitigate the risk of crazies attacking them, they’d wind up driving away their customers.
    Of course this is how bullying works. The terrorists make an example of one chain and show they can force that chain to back down. All the other chains get the message that if they do anything that might anger the terrorists, they’ll be next. The net result is that none of them is willing to stand up, even though the terrorists don’t actually have the power to attack all of them simultaneously.

  149. 149.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @rikyrah: I can. Because, these muthaphuckas aren’t going to stop at Pride.

    Stand up to these bbullies.

    You’re right. Giving into them encourages them.

    Still, I’m at a loss how to fight. For me, I can buy some of the pride swag.

    For Target, what are their options? Stay open; with or without the merchandise; or close the store. Let me know if I’m missing any, but all those options have legitimate benefits and drawbacks.

  150. 150.

    Gravenstone

    @Immanentize: Yes, he will be a senior next year!

    I realize as I get older that my perception of time is getting more and more skewed, but that can’t be fucking right! He was just touring campus last year, right? Right?!?!

  152. 152.

    cckids

    @eversor:

    There have been lawsuits over rifles and pistols where manufacturing errors caused them to fire when they should not have.

    That is a malfunction, not an accident. The point stands.

  153. 153.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @cckids: That is a malfunction, not an accident. The point stands.

    An accident is something unintended or unexpected.  So unless the malfunction was something nefarious, it was an accidental malfunction, no?

  154. 154.

    BlueGuitarist

    @Betty Cracker:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    govt suggests 21 yrs for Meggs, noting leadership role, firearms, threatening Pelosi, “I’m just here for the violence” patch, “we’re not quitting, we’re reloading,” and lack of remorse.

    He cried  while his family praised him, then spoke, claimed to be innocent of some charges and unfairly prosecuted, whines about jail conditions, claims he tried to help people on Jan 6, asks for compassion & mercy.

    Judge Mehta says Meggs account of his actions at odds with undisputed evidence, goes thru some examples.

    sentence: 15 years and 4 months

    via @rparloff Lawfare

  155. 155.

    cckids

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation: Sure, be pedantic. The point Stonekettle makes is that all the jackasses whose kid just “accidentally” shot their other kid, or their mom, shouldn’t get that easy out. There are no accidents with guns.

  156. 156.

    locanicole

    @sdhays: I know of a school resource officer that left his gun on the back of the toilet at a highschool; he got a promotion to Sgt.

  158. 158.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @BlueGuitarist: Okay, the judge came in under on both.  Not what I expected, but 18 and 15 years are the longest sentences that have been handed out so far.

  160. 160.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @cckids: What you describe is negligence. That is a big deal, especially as it concerns guns and/or children.

    An act of negligence can be an accident. In fact, it must necessarily be an accident. I don’t propose that describing something as an accident should be an out, it’s a confession.

  161. 161.

    Ruckus

    @brantl:

    I’m thinking that not all the cells in that brain are functional. As in most of them are not. If we still did IQ tests I wonder if he would know what end of the pencil to take it with.

  164. 164.

    Cameron

    @Betty Cracker: There’s a Target about 2 blocks from me.  I have no idea how a Target in Florida is supposed to respond to these threats.  Armed guards?  Because I have a bad feeling that when Skeeter and Rev. Lee Bob show up and mow down various customers and employees, they’ll waltz away untouched because they stood their ground against corporate wokeness.  Which no less a personage than Ronald Puddinghands himself has decried.

  165. 165.

    Brachiator

    @Old School:

    U.S. President Joe Biden and top congressional Republican Kevin McCarthy on Thursday appeared to be nearing a deal to cut spending and raise the government’s $31.4 trillion debt ceiling, with little time to spare to head off the risk of default.

    This is bullshit.

  166. 166.

    Ruckus

    @Roger Moore:

    I carried a loaded 45 pistol on watch in the Navy. We did not carry with a round in the chamber. Do remember that we received zero training with the weapon, and it was handed off every 4 hrs. Remove the clip, rack it open and visually check the chamber then hand it off. But never, ever had a round in the chamber unless you were going to fire it. Even when qualifying – by shooting under way – and hitting the water.

  167. 167.

    Jay

    @Roger Moore:

    Yup, but guns and extremism are now the ‘Mercan covid.

    Other than extreme hardening down, (Corporate snipers, public executions in the parking lot), it’s just where you are at.

    Sure, Corporate could take the hate mail, use it to get restraining orders, (only matters after the fact), but they are too busy chasing a 15% reduction in costs and a %50 increase in profits.

    Sadly, like the vid I linked, it’s up to other customers and staff, to stand up.

    It’s why I go to all the Drag Queen Story Hours here. I haven’t seen any of them, because I am out in the parking lot.

  172. 172.

    JoyceH

    @Old School: ​
     

    Does anyone else think that CNN is just scheduling these town halls, Pence and Haley, etc, because they got so much blowback for the Trump town hall?

  173. 173.

    Jay

    May 25, the first shots from today's exchange of prisoners of warIt was possible to bring home another 106 soldiers.Many of them were considered missing. The oldest of the released soldiers is 59 years old, the youngest is 21. Welcome home, HEROES, and get well soon! pic.twitter.com/HYoMC1Fia6— Support Ukraine.London Hub (@ukraine_hub) May 25, 2023

  175. 175.

    Ruckus

    @brendancalling:

    I don’t know where you live but in my area of SoCal Target is one of the better places to shop. And I haven’t seen any kind of harassment. If it was me I’d check the store and ask management before I walked away. Now as I said this is SoCal so while not everyone here is an actual lefty, at least I’ve not seen any type of protesting here. And my second question is where else are you going to shop? At least they put the merchandise in the store in the first place. I’d check and see if they sell it online. They do have to think about their customer and worker safety in a time of conservative asinine protests over something they don’t have to purchase.

    And I know, I would be pissed off and want to walk out but they could have never sold this type of merchandise in the first place. They have to walk a line or people can die from complete and utter asinine shits who seem to think that if they can’t win at the ballot box and the gun store then murder is the only avenue left to have the 14th century world they and no one else wants.

  177. 177.

    Ohio Mom

    The Target Trans Pride merch is pretty cute — I gave it a quick look when I popped in to pick up a prescription at the CVS inside the store the other day. I did wonder how many customers here in suburban Ohio would bite. It didn’t strike me as very different from the Black history month clothing display, I also wondered how many of my mostly white neighbors would be buying that.

    I thought briefly about trying on the multi-colored checkered dress (not sure what about that design signifies Trans pride) but I was in a hurry, thought maybe I’d go back another day to give it a closer look. Now I am wondering if I’ll be able to find it, now I want to buy it just to make a statement.

    The display wasn’t going to be there very long in any case, it’s almost time to put up the Red, White Blue July 4th stuff.

  178. 178.

    TriassicSands

    If Rhodes serves all 18 years (and everyone will be better off if he does), he’ll be about 75 when he gets out. My honest hope, dispensing with any thought of charity or kindness, is that he will die in prison.

    His best chance of getting out sooner, and one that is certainly not zero, is for Trump to pardon him after being re-elected and once again proving just how stupid the American electorate is. Then, with Rhodes free again, Trump can make him head of the FBI or Chairman of the Joint Chiefs. Or five star Generalissimo of the newly created national MAGA Militia, whose job it will be to

    Now, DeSantis has also mentioned the possibility of pardons for all the loyal patriots who stormed the Capitol. So, Rhodes’ prospects just keep getting brighter. And the future of the U.S. keeps getting dimmer.

  179. 179.

    bbleh

    @TriassicSands: one assumes he’ll go to a nice Club Fed, where he will be at risk of being shanked by some corrupt bureaucrat who, having profited handsomely from government, is deeply loyal to it and loathes Rhodes and all his ilk.  (Ok I made the last bit up.)

  180. 180.

    Jay

    @Ruckus:

    yurp,

    as a Customer, there a lot of alternate options.

    as a wage slave, not so much.

    there are things that Corporate can do, such as defining when it’s okay to beat the living shit out of a so called “customer” with out it being a firing offence,…..

    During Covid, I got a “pass” on that, but that was Store, not Corporate. Wasn’t just Covid, included Pride and MMIGW,…..

    Ahole of my DS  deliberately destroyed my memorial, got a slap on the wrist for that, because it went up the full food chain.

    Still pissed off.

  181. 181.

    Roger Moore

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation:

    The basic problem is that “accident” is too vague a term.  It can mean an act of God or the foreseeable consequence of negligence or anything between those two ends.  By talking about gun “accidents”, we’re letting people fudge the issue and act as if what happened is outside of human control.  It isn’t.  Every gun that fires had to be acquired and loaded first.  That’s human agency, and we need to look at the human agency that led up to the gun firing rather than writing it off as outside anyone’s control.

  182. 182.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @TriassicSands: Another reason, if you need one, to vote D.

    @bbleh: Have you ever been to a federal prison?  Even a minimum security one?  That Club Fed stuff is vastly overstated.  No prison is a fun place.

  183. 183.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Roger Moore: By talking about gun “accidents”, we’re letting people fudge the issue and act as if what happened is outside of human control.

    I disagree and I explained why. YMMV of course.

    I first encountered the effort to define the term “accident” away from having any usefulness as a word as it regards cars. I’d rather say “that’s not an excuse” than “that’s not an accident.”

    ETA: And it isn’t an excuse. It’s the whole ass problem.  You should be taking enough care around both guns and cars that accidents shouldn’t happen

    This is all part of my word reclamation project. Any word corrupted by politics or sloppy vernacular applies; conservative, socialist, liberal, accident, argument, et c.

  184. 184.

    Ruckus

    @cckids:

    This. Absofuckinglutely this. You drink and drive you are negligent. You carry a gun and it goes off “accidentally,” you are negligent. You carry a gun and shoot someone when your life is not threatened, you are negligent. And an attempted or actual murderer.

  185. 185.

    JPL

    @Ohio Mom: When blacks were attacked someone came up with lumping them into the Karens of the world.   Maybe it’s time to lump the bigots.

    I personally like little dick, but maybe something better.

  187. 187.

    Jay

    @Roger Moore:

    Yurp, never had an “accident” with a gun, other than cleaning an L1A1, and having the bolt slide forward. Lost some skin.

    Oh, dropped my Dad’s  12 Gauge Winchester shot gun, snapped the stock off right at the grip, (bad grain, that’s what I tell myself), some dowels and wood glue, it was fine.

    Never had an accidental discharge, (too soon for Balloon Juice After Dark?)

  188. 188.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @zhena gogolia: That sums up the argument right there. I simply disagree. It’s okay.

    Eta: To restate my argument in terms of the provided video, “accident” doesn’t imply no one is to blame, it says flat out no one intended for it to happen

    It also has no more or less to say about who is to blame than “collision.”

  190. 190.

    Jackie

    @Old School: So CNN is CYA by hosting the other GQP candidates. CNN is also giving Haley a Town Hall early June. Pence hasn’t even formally declared he’s a candidate, so don’t get why he’s involved.

    The Town Hall for Pudd’n Boots – tbd – will be entertaining.

  191. 191.

    JPL

    How do you define the Target and bud lite folks with a word or two.   No one wants to be a Karen.   Does anyone want to be labeled a little dick.   I don’t blame Target except for the fact that they donate to folks to promote this, but that alone won’t stop it.

    Karen mocks the behavior, and it is time that we mock the rainbow desenters.

  192. 192.

    The Moar You Know

    From the comments I can tell most of you have never worked retail.  It’s a refreshing change to see a retailer give even a passing concern for their employees safety.  The threat, you all know, is no lie. These terrorists mean business.

    But you write and tell Target to get fucked.

    Takes some kind of fucking privilege to insist a cashier take the risk of a bullet to the head for anyone’s cause.

    I used to work retail and a lot of you are really grinding me the wrong way on this.  Get mad at the terrorists, not management for trying to keep their employees safe.

  194. 194.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @The Moar You Know: Takes some kind of fucking privilege to insist a cashier take the risk of a bullet to the head for anyone’s cause.

    I’m down for $20/hour hazard pay above my normal hourly. Time and a half Sundays still.

  195. 195.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @zhena gogolia: I remember, somewhat. Didn’t know that was what you were going for, though, thank you for the clarification.

    ETA: I enjoy semantical conversations. I have an ongoing thing with a friend about the difference between a verbal altercation and an argument.

  196. 196.

    eversor

    @cckids:

    Not true at all.  Take cars.  You can get into an accident because your breaks fail, you’re drunk, or you aren’t paying attention.  These are not the same thing.  It’s important to note this, because it makes the vast majority of gun accidents all the worse.   As they are not accidents due to malfunction but due to raw stupidity or just plain not giving a shit.

    Machines malfunction and people get hurt or killed.  That sucks.  It’s also just a fact of life and we all move on.   But with everything but guns we make damn sure people know how to operate safely, are trained on, and not intoxicated, when operating machines that can maim or kill.  Because you know, not doing so is fucking batshit insane.

    @Ruckus:

    I’ve been in places and done work where chambered was what we did for various jobs in the past (not all military).  However yeah on base that’s the norm.   Also things are kept in the armory, you sign for it, and there’s a whole chain of custody about it.

    It’s also worth noting there’s nothing terrifying about armed military on a military base or even in public.  I’ve been at places where people, uniformed, were wandering around with MP5s and stuff at the food court and nobody gave a rats ass about it it’s whatever.  Hell there’s a nice 24/7 Lebanese place here that’s a huge hit with the local (non blue uniformed but still in tactical vests that says POLICE on it) police and they are constantly armed and even though most customers are African or Arabic nobody notices or cares.  However when some random jackass walks in with a weapon people get upset fast.

    Gun nuts don’t get this.  It’s not guns specifically that scare people.  They don’t scare people.  It’s idiots and crazy people with guns that scare people.  And if you are wandering around with a gun, odds are you an idiot or a crazy person.

  197. 197.

    JPL

    @The Moar You Know: ha   I actually did merchandising and filled in when necessary.   Once I had the redneck (not my word but another customer )  and the fat butt (not my word) disagree.

    I think the folks distructing property in Target or threatenig employees should be treated just like we treat KAREN

    Shame the assholes

  198. 198.

    Ruckus

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    You are not wrong.

    But. We are dealing with insane armed assholes with a national law that allows them the freedom to own and we have had supreme court rulings that allow them to carry them. I think the concepts of the open carry concept is wrong but then I’m not on the Supreme Court. And I see no possibility that the SC will change any time soon. We have a national political party that is losing power because they act like nothing has changed since 1776, when in fact a lot has changed, including the actual concept that half the citizens, the female half, are actual equal citizens and that the color of someone’s skin does not make them any less than a full citizen. Now if we could only convince a segment of the population that they don’t get to shoot anyone they think is possibly, maybe, not appreciating them to a level that no one deserves. And I don’t see a way to get there, given our current SC.

  201. 201.

    Citizen Alan

    @JPL: They’re behind the times. For as far back as I can recall, Mississippi has “celebrated” Black History Month and Confederate Heritage Month at the same time. Also, MLK Day is not  state holiday, but Robert E Lee Day is celebrated the same day.

  202. 202.

    eversor

    @Ruckus:

    Except this isn’t always the case.   We’ve seen in the past where some hunting rifles had a defect that could cause the firing pin to move.  People died.  The company that made them pulled your logic of it’s always the operators fault and dodged lawsuits and refused to fix it for years as the body count racked up.  Until it was proven and they got sued to hell and back.

    Turns out is was mechanical failure all along and the bean counters figured the cost of the lawsuits was less than the cost of recall and fixing it.  So they hid it.

    There was recently an issue with a new pistol that is used even by the US military where a similar issue happened.  It would go off at random and blast people even from the holster.   This was also covered up as injuries racked up until a voluntary upgrade program was launched.

    Machines malfunction, corporations release faulty shit and lie about it, this is widely known.

    Failing to admit this is failing everyone.  You’re allowing the gun industry to keep releasing faulty products and the entire hobby upgrade side of gun owners (the majority of which have no business modifying a fucking thing) to skate by on what’s a very real issue while pulling the standard liberal screw up of not understanding guns.

    I’ve personally given up on this until generation Z is in power cause they sure as shit are going to pass gun control.  Which most gun owners actually want.

  203. 203.

    Citizen Alan

    @The Kropenhagen Interpretation: I’m of the opinion that any negligence involving a firearm which leads to the injury or death of another person should automatically be treated as gross negligence and grounds for punitive damages in civil actions and aggravated assault or manslaughter in criminal actions. Sadly, I do not sit on the Supreme Court or in Congress.

  204. 204.

    eversor

    @JPL:

    There’s a huge gap between “I want to talk to the manager” and “I’m going to shoot up the shelf stockers and the customers”.

  205. 205.

    gwangung

    @eversor: If a person wanders around, open carry, I always consider them as not respecting firearms. In particular, they don’t respect guns enough and their capacity to damage and harm. They treat them as magic talismans that will somehow protect them from harm, without ever doing the hard work of knowing how to use them effectively and safely.

  206. 206.

    Ruckus

    @Immanentize:

    don’t fool yourself, no one is ever free  after a visit from the Big C.

    This is true. I am the youngest in my family and the only other left out of the five of us has massive cancer, a very crappy reboot from an earlier bout. So out of 5 humans, 4 of us have had or currently has cancer and one died of it which was also a reboot, very likely to be joined by another because the only possible medicine that might work is very untenable. I will be the only one left from the family of 5.

  207. 207.

    Brachiator

    @JoyceH:

    Does anyone else think that CNN is just scheduling these town halls, Pence and Haley, etc, because they got so much blowback for the Trump town hall?

    I’m not seeing these as improvements.

    CNN can’t make up for their Trump ass kissing.

  209. 209.

    satby

    @The Moar You Know: Actually, in my long and checkered job history I was both a retail worker and retail management. Violent customers were an occasional hazard, and the protocol was and still is to call Security and/or the police. It’s more of a risk now because of all the guns, but the risk always was there, usually in hold ups. And battles during Black Friday. If you’re open, you’re at risk, so Target absolutely shouldn’t cave to bigots.

    Good thread on this here

  210. 210.

    billcinsd

    @eversor: I would bet you are wrong about nobody caring whether some uniformed person is carrying in those places and that you are projecting your thinking onto others

  211. 211.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Citizen Alan: I’m of the opinion that any negligence involving a firearm which leads to the injury or death of another person should automatically be treated as gross negligence and grounds for punitive damages in civil actions and aggravated assault or manslaughter in criminal actions. Sadly, I do not sit on the Supreme Court or in Congress.

    Well, I will do everything in my power as one relatively poor voter to change that…

  213. 213.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Jay: ::Facepalm::

    ETA: This is the same reaction I give when I use “argument” meaning “a logical proposition intended to persuade” and am met with confusion.

    We weren’t arguing, we were talking calmly. ::Facepalm::

  216. 216.

    JPL

    @JPL:  The most interesting/different story about my retail experience had to do with shoes.

    The store manager had a meetup which is what they called it, to discuss promotions and stuff at her/his house.  Anywho my boss and I heard  about her/his shoe collection.  OMG hundreds of pairs of shoes.  Dorothy would be proud.  We would know this because we ……………..   nevermind, that’s not necessary.

  217. 217.

    TriassicSands

    @Omnes Omnibus: Another reason, if you need one, to vote D.

    As of today, I will need at least 20 trillion minus 20 trillion more reasons to vote D in 2024.

    Since I was first eligible to vote, I haven’t missed a single election. There is only one thing that could prevent me from voting D across the board in 2024. If that happens, I won’t be commenting on B-J anymore either.

  218. 218.

    a thousand flouncing lurkers (was fidelio)

    @Omnes Omnibus: Maybe he provided some useful information targeting people upstream from him. Starting with someone like Roger Stone and going from there.

  220. 220.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @TriassicSands: As of today, I will need at least 20 trillion minus 20 trillion more reasons to vote D in 2024.

    No need for the minus, I’ll give you your 20 trillion reasons and they all start with the word “Republicans. “

  223. 223.

    Burnspbesq

    @bbleh:

    one assumes he’ll go to a nice Club Fed

    Don’t assume that. He’s not going to Florence or Marion, but neither is he going to Maxwell AFB. My bet is he gets medium security in an actual prison, Leavenworth or Lewisburg.

  228. 228.

    Geminid

    @a thousand flouncing lurkers (was fidelio): The prosecutors asked for more time, so they probably did not get anything good out of Rhodes. If he does have good evidence that will incriminate Stone, Rhodes could ghstill dish it and maybe get his sentence reduced. Starting an 18 year prison term might bring him around.

    I think one of the Watergate burglers, maybe McCord(?), broke that case open after he was imprisoned. I believe he wrote a letter to Judge Sirica.

  229. 229.

    Barbara

    @bbleh: ​I think you only go to a minimum security prison if your sentence is relatively short, like two years. So no, he’s going somewhere else.

  230. 230.

    cckids

    @eversor:

    As they are not accidents due to malfunction but due to raw stupidity or just plain not giving a shit.

    Which makes them not accidents, but negligence or crimes. Jesus, this is not complicated, but it is tiring.

  232. 232.

    Geminid

    @cckids: You are defining “negligence” and “accident” as mutually exclusive terms. I do not think they are, and I think this view is a common one.

  234. 234.

    Jeffro

    Speaking of terrorists (and I hope this news gets its own front-page post tomorrow) DeSantis, getting ahead of the inevitable GOP candidate curve, says he’ll pardon J6 terrorists as well as – you guessed it – Donald trumpov.

    Battle lines, they have been drawn, Democrats and democrats and Americans who put country first!

    Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis said Thursday that, if elected president, he would consider pardoning some of those convicted on charges related to the deadly Jan. 6, 2021, insurrection at the U.S. Capitol.

    Hosts of the conservative “The Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Show” asked DeSantis if he thinks Jan. 6 defendants “deserve to have their cases examined by a Republican president,” and whether he would pardon former president Donald Trump if he were “charged with federal offenses.” DeSantis said that on his first day in office, he would “have folks that will get together and look at all these cases.”

    “Now, some of these case, some people may have a technical violation of the law,” DeSantis said. “But if there are three other people who did the same thing but just in a context, like [the Black Lives Matter protests in 2020] and they don’t get prosecuted at all, that is uneven application of justice, and so … we will use the pardon power.”

    FUCK

    THESE

    PEOPLE

    There’s a name for a political movement that believes its members are above the law, and it rhymes with “mash-ist

    So…DeSantis is willing to not only pardon the violent goons who besieged the Capitol and beat on police officers for three hours (and who have been convicted in courts of law of doing this, over, and over!) but he’s willing to pardon trump himself* for federal offenses. T

    *for what it’s worth, I have mentioned before that this would start to be the new litmus test for GOP elected officials: “will you pardon trump?” They all know he’s tremendously corrupt and a huge drag on the party…they just can’t bring themselves to stand up to him and his base, or put their country first. It’s both historic and incredibly pathetic.

  235. 235.

    davecb

    @Ruckus:  Most of our training was with rifles, but there was one training rotation with the 9mm Browning pistol, with a mechanical (not “grip”) safety. Clear the weapon when issued, insert the magazine on the range, load the first round, release safety and fire the exercise, and then repeat the steps in reverse.

    It was horribly inaccurate, and we barely hit the backstop at 50 yards, half the distance to the normal first firing position. Not as bad as the Stirling or Sten, but pretty horrid.

  238. 238.

    Gvg

    @The Moar You Know: yes. If police came and arrested people like that, if the courts punished them, if their neighbors shunned them…target would have better options. As it is, i don’t see any. Its going to vary by locality but the threat level is getting really bad now.

  239. 239.

    Shalimar

    @Omnes Omnibus: The minumum security federal prison* in Shalimar, Florida had access to a golf course decades ago.  Not sure if it still does, been forever since I knew anyone serving there.

    *It’s more like an annex on Eglin Air Force Base, but they housed convicted politicians.

  240. 240.

    Ruckus

    @davecb:

    Qualifying in boot camp consisted of firing a 22 bolt action rifle on an indoor range. I seem to recall we normally got 2 or 3 shots. I got expert on my first shot so I didn’t get another.

    I was in over 50 yrs ago so things have changed a tad. Small arms we had onboard ship were 1911 45 cal pistols, BAR rifles – which is a semi auto 30-06, Thompson 45 cal sub machine guns. And a shotgun to fire the rope from ship to ship for ship to ship transfer of food, humans and refueling. The rope got bigger and bigger as each was pulled from ship to ship till the last line was a steel cable that had a ring on the end which went into a locking hook on the ship. It took a remarkably short time to get from rifle shot to pumping fuel. But everyone got very good at their job because we would do this every 2-5 days, on average every 3 days.

  241. 241.

    Ruckus

    @The Moar You Know:

    I owned a retail store for 6 yrs. Of course it was not a grocery store or a major we sell most everything store just a small retail business. I never had issues with customers but I rarely saw more than one or two in at a time so it was a bit more difficult to rip me off. I do have to say that no one walked in with a gun that I know of. Other than a couple of police officers came in to shop at different times, in uniform.

Comments are closed.