The New York Times reports that certain store-brand Freedom Caucus loons are honking like angry geese about the debt ceiling deal and are threatening to scuttle it — and McCarthy. (Gift link.) Here’s a representative sample:
“Absolutely and completely unacceptable,” said Representative Scott Perry, Republican of Pennsylvania and chairman of the Freedom Caucus, in describing the legislation. “Trillions and trillions of dollars in debt for crumbs. For a pittance.”
But so far, McCarthy still has name-brand Freedom Caucus loons like Jordan and Greene onboard. WaPo notes that it doesn’t look like any more than two House Rules Committee Repubs will defect, meaning the bill will likely go before the full House: (Gift link)
Two of the committee’s nine GOP members — Reps. Ralph Norman (S.C.) and Chip Roy (Tex.) — belong to the Freedom Caucus and have come out against the deal.
“The Republican conference has been torn asunder,” Roy said at a Freedom Caucus news conference Tuesday, where members of the hard-right caucus took turns bashing the deal and lamenting that McCarthy, in reaching a deal with Biden, had broken the GOP’s unified front…
But so far, Rep. Thomas Massie (R-Ky.), a libertarian-minded conservative who sometimes sides with the Freedom Caucus, seems to support the deal. His vote would give Republicans enough support to adopt the rule, since the four Democrats on the committee aren’t expected to offer their support on this procedural step.
You’d expect more reflexive acting out from the Oppositional Defiant Disordered Party. DeSantis blasted the bill almost as vociferously as if the legislation were a drag queen when asked, but it’s not a topic he’s dwelling upon since there are actual drag queens to bash. And at least one GOP critic went there, noting that DeSantis voted to increase the debt ceiling when he was a congressman.
Trump opened his big yap about the issue early and recklessly advocated for default, but that was before McCarthy endorsed a deal. Since then, Trump has been uncharacteristically mum on the issue. Josh Marshall has a theory on why there’s not more sturm und drang:
It goes without saying that Trump couldn’t give a crap about any of this. Trump’s guiding star is always his own personal benefit. But some issues still have more traction than others. Whether that’s because he actually has some residual concern for them or just recognizes they are important to his political brand is irrelevant for these purposes. Fiscal policy, debt and deficits matter to him least of anything. So there’s no need for Trump to get involved here. If it looked like it were sinking on the right he’d definitely jump in to get a piece of it. But other than that he simply may not care. The risks of intervening are also real even though there’s not a lot of upside…
One point is staring us in the face. This Republican Party cares a lot less about fiscal policy than even the old GOP. The post-1970s GOP was always opportunistic and hypocritical about spending and debt. These days, though, they barely care about it enough to manage the hypocrisy. Consider DeSantis: that whole terrain of politics is totally absent from his presidential pitch. To the extent the current GOP wants to re-form the federal government the energy is entirely on purging it of non-conservatives, Deep Staters and the like. Authoritarian politics, anti-BLM and gender culture war politics, the border. Those are the Republican issues. A necessary though not sufficient explanation of how McCarthy seems able to sell this agreement is that basically no one in the GOP actually cares about the thing they were demanding.
Sounds about right to me. It’s economic terrorism desultorily cosplayed as fiscal restraint, but so far, they can’t even bother straightening their wigs or getting the details of the historic uniforms and weaponry right. They don’t really give a shit.
Open thread.
rikyrah
If all Democrats vote present if the Freedom Caucus brings up a challenge to Kevin as Speaker…
will he remain Speaker?
rikyrah
The Washington Post (@washingtonpost) tweeted at 6:39 PM on Mon, May 29, 2023:
Texas Republicans wound down their regular legislative session Sunday by changing election policies for a single populous Democratic stronghold but not other parts of the state. https://t.co/jFXgXmYFoF
(https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1663329326995996674?t=TN8ttd7WSNNod3MCu6fAtA&s=03)
rikyrah
David Darmofal (@david_darmofal) tweeted at 7:48 AM on Tue, May 30, 2023:
Support among Black voters, who determine the nomination, if Biden didn’t run. Prominent Never Trump Republicans refuse to accept this.
Harris 45%
Clinton 15%
Sanders 9%
Newsom 6%
Abrams & Kennedy 5%
AOC & Warren 3%
Klobuchar & Pritzker 2%
Buttigieg 1%
https://t.co/EhrNyiZPTT
(https://twitter.com/david_darmofal/status/1663527899067039746?t=T7DXweCmYBJ3Trf3tiFsSw&s=03)
eversor
@rikyrah:
Yes.
rikyrah
David Rothkopf (@djrothkopf) tweeted at 10:04 AM on Mon, May 29, 2023:
Bernard Schwartz and I wrote this on Friday. The events of this weekend certainly seem to bear out its core points. FYI, in case you missed it then: Joe Biden Is the Master Deal Maker America Needs Right Now https://t.co/M0kKy9OOiN via @thedailybeast
(https://twitter.com/djrothkopf/status/1663199732364091393?t=WMB17YoCAu0zniK3sfzT5Q&s=03)
Old School
Why would Trump take a position? All I would expect him to say is that he’d get a much better deal if he was involved.
ColoradoGuy
Their side: All Culture War, All the Time
Our side: We’re for Democracy. Always have been. It’s the Name of the Party.
Tim C.
GOP had total control 2017-2018. They could have totally made all the cuts to social programs if they wanted to. They didn’t. They don’t really care. Also, someone may have noticed there’s a hell of a lot of white rural folks who use all those programs too.
karen marie
I can’t even with this shit.
SiubhanDuinne
Don’t like being a downer, and it’s not my intention to derail this important thread, but I hope every jackal will spare a kind thought for Rosalynn Carter, who has been diagnosed with dementia, according to an announcement from The Carter Center.
Perhaps this was mentioned in the thread downstairs — I haven’t had a chance to read it yet.
I’ve had the great privilege of spending time with both President and Mrs. Carter over the years. It’s devastating — though not unexpected, given their ages — that they’re having to face this new challenge. But they’re facing it together, and they are both incredibly strong, loving people.
eclare
@SiubhanDuinne:
Yes, it was mentioned downstairs. Two people who have done incredible things for humanity.
I worked on his tax returns when I was at Arthur Andersen in ATL, but the higher ups always got to deliver it in person. I was so jealous!
Baud
GOP cares about tax cuts.
Math Guy
I really wish Biden had invoked the 14th amendment and put an end to this bs, but he must have had reasons not to. One good thing that will come out of this is the frenzied infighting among republicans that will be the result of passing this deal.
Jeffro
I think I saw a clip of Hakeem Jeffries laying down a marker that “150 or more” House GOP members need to support this deal that “their Speaker” (I think he used those words) negotiated with the White House.
Anything less (which it surely will be) is evidence of a completely disorganized, untrustworthy GOP.
L to the OL
I LOVE MINORITY LEADER AND FUTURE SPEAKER JEFFRIES!!
rikyrah
@karen marie:
Word
SiubhanDuinne
@eclare:
Thanks. Was going to check out that thread anyhow, so I’ll go do that now.
Yes, they are wonderful people, and their long marriage is inspiring both as a love story and as a partnership of service.
Old School
@Jeffro:
Or what? Is a discharge petition of a clean debt ceiling raise still in play?
Jeffro
@rikyrah: I saw your other posts at the end of the last thread + this one…thank you.
Never trumpers are going to have to stuff it.
Geminid
I have not read the WaPo article and I don’t know who wrote it. But I have to wonder about the assertion that Rules Committee Democrats would not supply votes to put the bill on the floor if needed. Why wouldn’t they? It’s Biden’s bill as much as it is McCarthy’s.
rikyrah
@Tim C.:
We disagree.
They care a great deal.
They just don’t want to be held accountable.
They want Democrats to do their dirty work for them…
And, the moment that it’s done, they would bash Democrats.
Jay
@karen marie:
and it’s only Tuesday,…….
Jeffro
@Old School: No idea about the discharge petition…I think Jeffries is just trying to hold the GOP’s feet to the fire and make them look bad when they only produce a couple dozen votes for the Biden/McCarthy deal.
HumboldtBlue
@rikyrah:
Excellent point.
eversor
@ColoradoGuy:
Democracy is part of the culture war though.
For the right there is a god ordained natural order of things and that is culture. Democracy is about electing a steward who will uphold this order and protect it.
For the left there is no god ordained natural order. Democracy is for electing agents to enact change.
We fundamentaly don’t agree with what democracy is actually supposed to be.
Jeffro
The Freedumb Caucus is having a hissy because they were SURE that one way or another, either with massive cuts to social programs or with the chaos/recession that would ensue from a default, they were going to…to use their term…FJB.
And now here they are, giving away their little bit of leverage – a free pass ’til past the 2024 election!, too – to Joe Biden. For “crumbs”. LOL
eversor
@SiubhanDuinne:
The key to remember is that nobody goes well. It’s just a fact of life. However you can live well. They both did.
cmorenc
@rikyrah:
If you continue a bit down the twitter thread linked above, you’ll come across a video of a Ken Paxson interview where he says that had he not successfully sued in Texas state courts to halt including 2.5 mail-in ballots across several blue urban counties, Trump would have lost Texas instead of winning on the north side of 600k votes – by way of saying that the fact that such ballots were counted in other key states that Trump won in 2016 but lost in 2020, Trump would have won [and not have had the election stolen fom him by states in other courts allowing the count).
Roger Moore
@Tim C.:
The Republicans love making noise about social spending, but only because it’s a good way of bringing up their hatred for Those People. Bleating about work requirements for welfare is just a slightly more acceptable way of saying you want to stop lazy minorities from feeding on the public teat. They can claim it’s all about the money, but nobody is buying it anymore.
Sean
@Geminid:
I have the same question. It would be unbelievably stupid to do so based on “we don’t help the majority on rules” tradition. What an absurd cynically political thing. This is a unique situation, negotiated by the president who wants it passed, they should vote for it.
Jackie
Utah MAGA Congressman to resign. Since it’s Utah he’ll be replaced by another Repug – but maybe one who’s an anti-trumper.
“Rep. Chris Stewart (R-UT) “plans to resign his seat in Congress, possibly as soon as this week,” the Salt Lake Tribune reports.”
“Stewart announced his plan to resign, citing ongoing health issues with his wife. It was unclear what those health issues may be.”
Geminid
@Jeffro: I think the discharge petition is still active. I also think that Jeffries will supply more than 68 votes if McCarthy can’t produce 150. Democrats aren’t going to provide 109, though. I think Republicans will have to provide a majority of the “Ayes.”
I guess we’ll find out tonight. I just hope the vote finishes before midnight, ’cause I’ve gotta go prune tomorrow morning. Bushes are growing like crazy!
rikyrah
@Jeffro:
They wanted to crash the Economy going into 2024.
They wanted to use the Debt Ceiling because the MSM would have completely gone along with ‘ Both Sides’.
If the economy is hurt because of the disaster happening in Florida, then it’s harder to do ‘ Both Sides’ when the GOP controls everything in Florida.
Math Guy
@Geminid: A Democratic vote will result in Democrats sharing blame for the cuts – and the republicans will certainly make that point. On the other hand, think about how humiliating will it be for McCarthy if he can’t get this passed without Democratic votes.
sab
When we Social Security recipients don’t get our checks I don’t think Culture Wars will save the GOP.
Those of us who have been able to save will burn through our kids inheritance pretty quickly.
Gravenstone
@Jeffro: Well, the reactionary rump caucus over there only amounts to 30ish or so morons. So what Jeffries is demanding is entirely within the capacity of the Republican caucus. If only they had a competent leader…
Jackie
The knives are coming out:
“Rep. Dan Bishop (R-NC) on Tuesday became the first Republican to publicly support ousting Speaker Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) over the debt ceiling deal he struck with President Biden as conservative criticism of the agreement ramps up,” The Hill reports.“
Edmund dantes
@rikyrah: we know this is true with the way they railed against the sequester deal with Obama.
Also how they railed against Hillary for embassy security being underfunded by the state department even though it was the gop budget that cut it.
And the list goes on and on.
BlueGuitarist
@Jeffro:
thanks! for mentioning this morning the WaPo article on revolt of homeschooled -having suffered thru homeschooling as kids, as parents sending their own kids to public school;
possibly non-paywalled link:
https://wapo.st/43xfNuh
Hoodie
They’ve been a white cultural party for some time now because that was the only way they could gain electoral weight. Budget balancing and pro-business stances were just covers for that particular brand of culture, which also resulted in cutting taxes and regulations for their donors. Their budget balancing and pro-business stances are quite asymmetrical, i.e., they won’t raise taxes on rich people to balance budgets and are only interested in helping certain businesses.
Jay C
@Math Guy:
Yeah, but OTOH, the flip-side of “sharing blame for the cuts” is “taking credit for saving the country from financial disaster”: a position which Congressional Democrats ought to be highlighting at every opportunity.
Geminid
@Math Guy: There will certainly be Democratic votes to help push this bill through. But Democrats will share some of the blame for the cuts anyway.
I think Jeffries will put his foot down though, at supplying many more than a hundred votes even if the bill fails because of that. Then, as they say, the fat will be in the fire.
piratedan
I do find it humorous that the party that took the most votes to elect a Speaker in the last 100 years is now expected to be some monolithic juggernaut of legislative deeds.
I sit back and look at the amount of bandwidth that was given to The Squad during Madame Pelosi’s tenure and wonder if we’re going to get the same breathless features of the challenges that McCarthy faces and ethical foundations of those dissenters within the GOP caucus.
and we’re still examining bark on a single tree rather than accepting the forest for what it is, debts were incurred, they gotta get paid, there is no Repo Man (unless you wanna claim that for SCOTUS and taking away rights). If we need to tighten our belts, then it makes sense that it should hurt the folks who ran up the bills, doesn’t it?
mrmoshpotato
@karen marie: I can’t either. Want some company?
Roger Moore
@rikyrah:
This! They want a lot of those programs dead, but they don’t want their finger prints on the murder weapon. They either want it to be bipartisan (which means the Democrats’ fault in practice) or overturned by the courts, or something similar. They don’t want to take the blame and thus the hit at the ballot box.
Sean
@Math Guy:
I think he’s referring to the vote to bring it to the floor by the rules committee. Hard right is trying to kill the bill there by not supplying the votes in committee. Dems on committee saying they won’t help because minority doesn’t help the majority out of their own squabbles. This is lunacy, as no one is going to remember or care about the 1 democrat on the rules committee who voted to advance the legislation to the floor to help pass a bill the Democratic president negotiated and supports. Rules committee dems should supply their votes if they believe the bill is worth passing.
MisterForkbeard
@Tim C.: Oh, they CARE. But they want Dems to be blamed for it, and they want to be lauded for it.
This is the same way they tried to get Obamacare overturned for a decade but fucked around and failed when they could actually do it. They want it, but they mostly want it to hurt Democrats
MisterForkbeard
@Math Guy: Honestly, I think the reasons are pretty clear: It’d be litigated, and the current corrupt supreme court would throw it back to him. Then the media would talk about how it’s all Biden’s fault.
At this point, if the deal fails he can still invoke it, but the blame will be on McCarthy and the Republicans.
bbleh
@karen marie: nominated!
Rusty
Don’t listen to what they say, look at what they do. When the Republicans controlled both houses and the presidency, the only meaningful thing they passed was a massive tax cut for the wealthy. In this negotiation, the only meaningful thing they got was cutting the IRS budget so the wealthy can continue to cheat on their taxes. All the rest is smoke and noise. They get stuff done for the very rich. That’s it.
Jeffro
@BlueGuitarist: wasn’t that amazing?
I thought it was really well-written and I loved the deeper exploration of how the parents came around to…reality.
randy khan
I am feeling pretty good about this passing, and am hopeful that it will cause huge amounts of trouble for McCarthy.
Math Guy
@Sean: Agreed. I should have parsed my statement better vis-a-vis votes on the rules committee and the upcoming floor vote. What I do see happening is a weakening of the hard-right “freedom caucus “ if the debt deal is passed with sufficient Democratic support. This will put them on notice that McCarthy doesn’t need their support to get some things done. The bottom line is that the republican caucus will no longer appear to be a monolithic voting bloc.
Geminid
It occurred to me last night that Tucker Carlson has been off the air for five weeks now. He is becaming irrelevant very quickly. Carlson had better get back on a platform soon, or it will be “Tucker who? Oh, that guy.”
rikyrah
@Rusty:
THAT.IS.IT.
Roger Moore
@BlueGuitarist:
What I thought was interesting was that the homeschooling was only one aspect of what they were rebelling against. Homeschooling is just the most visible part of a whole extremist approach to raising children that also involves corporal punishment and keeping the children largely separated from any influences outside the church. Homeschooling is mostly there because it’s necessary to keep the kids away from those outside influences.
What I found most interesting was that it was the corporal punishment that was really their breaking point. I guess that by keeping them from outside influences they didn’t really know what they were missing- the sections about how the kids are helping introduce their parents to popular culture was fascinating- but they knew they hated being beaten.
Jackie
Jennifer Ruben gets what some Democrats don’t. Here’s a snippet about half way through her article:
“….During the process, Democrats, as they frequently do, confused PR with substance. They fretted that McCarthy was getting more and better media coverage. They worried Biden was giving in to Freedom Caucus demands. Biden and his team understood something they did not: The momentary spin McCarthy produced is irrelevant. His right-wing crazies still hate the deal; Democrats still get the deal they wanted all along. Biden — like a prosecutor who lets his filings do the talking — lets his deals do the talking.”
“Moreover, Biden could not very well run to the press to tell them McCarthy wasn’t getting much of anything. The “play” here was to allow McCarthy to spin his way out of the corner that he and the Freedom Caucus had painted themselves into. Letting McCarthy boast that his great achievement was “getting Biden to negotiate” was a small price to pay for avoiding economic catastrophe and landing the best deal one could hope for in divided government.”
Attempting gift link: https://wapo.st/3ovkwOx
bbleh
@Jeffro: @Old School: @Geminid: @Math Guy:@Sean: Jeffries and the Dems absolutely WILL provide every vote necessary to pass the deal and, if needed, to get it out of Rules. This “threshold” stuff is just twisting the knife (not that I disapprove!) The alternative possibilities are almost uniformly worse, some of them disastrously so. And Biden will catch at least half the blame no matter what happens because the Preznit is In Charge so everything is his fault. But nothing will change how hapless this has made McQarthy look, nor how badly divided the GQP caucus is — if anything, the contrary!
MisterForkbeard
@Jackie: It only takes one to trigger the vote, if he has the balls to file the challenge.
bbleh
@MisterForkbeard: I would absolutely LOVE to see it. As noted elsewhere, I’m guessing the Dems have privately committed to help keep Qevin in the chair if push really comes to shove, but still … the spectacle, the humiliation! The popcorn!
Jackie
@Geminid: I had to think a moment… Tucker??
Oh yah, that guy….😂
Geminid
@Math Guy: That caucus started off a mess. They had to use duck tape and chewing gum to patch it up enough to elect a Speaker. The fault lines reflect those of the party at large, and I think they will get deeper. This could be the last Republican House Majority this decade.
Jackie
@MisterForkbeard: I’m SO GLAD my pantry is freshly stocked with🍿and🍷!
Jeffro
@Geminid: wow five weeks already?
So most GQPers should already be through the withdrawal symptoms…unless they’ve turned to harder stuff, so to speak?
Great reminder, though!
I wonder how long before the snooze media does a piece on this whole dynamic? “They’ve been wondering what to
thinkwatch for five weeks now. Here’s how America’sdumbest peopleconservatives have coped since losing Tucker…”HumboldtBlue
What the actual fuck, Nicolle Wallace is interviewing James Comey so he can fluff his new crime novel.
HumboldtBlue
@Jackie:
Yeah they are.
eclare
@HumboldtBlue:
He was on MJ this morning too. I was disgusted and did not watch.
Hoodie
@Jackie: The bottom line is that the Republicans never really had any more leverage than the normal leverage controlling the House provides in the budget process. Shooting the hostage here would mean shooting themselves, too. Moreover, had they shot the hostage, Biden was the only one with power to act if the economy started to melt down. Maybe those actions could be foiled by the SC, but that would put them in a tight spot and, to borrow a phrase, they don’t have any troops. There is literally nothing the House could do to stop a meltdown other than to raise the debt ceiling, so what, exactly, was the point of this bullshit other than typical GOP chaos mongering?
patrick II
@Math Guy:
It will be interesting to me to see exactly how MAGAs are hardcore enough to vote for a deficit debacle.
MisterForkbeard
@HumboldtBlue: Interesting. Does it have 6 chapters where the detectives break police rules and make life much harder for an innocent party, letting the criminals get away with the goods?
bbleh
@Jeffro: The New York Times talked with a dozen regulars over breakfast at an Ohio diner. When asked about their feelings about Tucker Carlson’s departure, they took on the expressions of the healthy, well-fed livestock that populate the rich pastures nearby.
Sean
@Geminid: @Math Guy
I am listening to the actual rules committee hearing now. Massie is up on questioning, and he sounds like he’s going to be a yes. He made it a point to have everyone on the panel confirm it reduces spending, and now he is crowing about the provision to automatically cut spending by 1% across the board if the 12 separate appropriations bills aren’t passed. He pushed for that, so I think he wants it. If he’s a yea, dems will not have to supply votes in committee and it will move to the floor by a 7-6 margin.
sab
When I look at the Ohio legislature I wonder how many of them have been to college. And then I think about college economics and I give up.
When I went to college in the 1970s econ was a tough, rigorous major. You had to be able to crunch numbers and those numbers had to work. I bailed into history early but I followed the econ guys. They jumped off a lemming cliff for politics after my time. I doubt their numbers work but I cannot imagine they would, but this bad econ is where the employment market works. Big employers want economists who do not have a clue.
Complete shift in my lifetime. Following Karl Rove’s making their own reality.
The dimmer bulbs still believe it.
patrick II
@rikyrah:
Agreed. See the “Two Santa Claus” theory from the Reagan years.
Also, that is what Mitch wanted to do with Trump “Let the Democrats handle him”.. That time responsibility avoidance may not have worked out so well for him. Or for the country.
CaseyL
@HumboldtBlue: I hope she introduced him as, “The guy who did more than anyone other than Vladimir Putin to elect Donald Trump in 2016.”
Matt McIrvin
@Roger Moore: The recommended parenting techniques in this subculture are things that UN treaties classify as war crimes.
Jackie
Pudd’n Boots threatened lawmakers who endorsed TFG:
“Rep. Greg Steube (R-FL) claimed that Gov. Ron DeSantis threatened to back primary challenges to certain members of Congress if they endorsed Donald Trump for president over him, Yahoo News reports.”
🔪🍿🍷🍿🍷🍿🔪
Roger Moore
@Hoodie:
It’s not just chaos mongering. It’s a great way for the key chaos mongers to get their ugly faces on TV, which is what they care about more than anything. If you notice, for instance, the Republicans who are best at getting on TV regularly aren’t at the center of the debt ceiling BS. It’s ones who aren’t good enough at playing the media game normally, but who see the debt ceiling as their chance to get some media exposure. Who would care about Scott Perry, Ralph Norman, and Chip Roy if they weren’t threatening a debt default?
NotMax
“Hey, what happened to the bathtub we planned to drown the government in?”
“It was repossessed when we couldn’t keep up the payments.”
//
Jay
Sean
Massie just confirmed he is a yes on the committee vote, so I think there is no way it will be prevented in coming to the floor. I suspect it will pass by a reasonably wide margin. If so, the Mike Lee type dolts in the senate may make noise, but I don’t think they’ll have much chance of stopping it.
gene108
@Math Guy:
It’s not humiliating. It’s a fact of life every Republican Speaker has had to deal with since 2011.
Neither Boehner nor Ryan could get budgets passed, debt ceiling raised, etc. without going to Nancy Pelosi to provide the necessary Democratic votes. The Freedom Caucus and other assorted Republican loons would refuse any sort of compromise and vote against the budget, debt ceiling, etc.
The upside to this is even while the minority party, House Democrats have a lot of leverage over mitigating the horrible ideas Republicans propose.
Betty Cracker
@BlueGuitarist: Wow, what a great article. Thanks for repeating that link!
HumboldtBlue
@MisterForkbeard:
IO can’t answer that, I have it muted. Instead, I am watching a trial of a 1st amendment auditor as his lawyer eviscerates the city lawyer for the city of Danbury CT.
eclare
@CaseyL:
Joe on MJ in a segment prior to James’ did go off on how TFG would never had been elected without endlessly investigating Hillary and leaking from the NY field office. And of course reopening the investigation ten days before the election.
Willie interviewed James, and I did not watch, so I don’t know if he touched on any of that.
Roger Moore
@Matt McIrvin:
I don’t know about that, but it’s definitely stuff society at large has started to classify as child abuse. That’s part of the reason they don’t want their kids going to public schools: teachers are mandatory reporters. If their kids start showing up at school with suspicious bruises, the teachers are going to contact CPS. Those are the kinds of parents who we ought to be taking kids away from, not LBGTQ+ people.
bbleh
@Hoodie: @Roger Moore: concur it really was entirely performance (except maybe for one or two of the Truly Stupid in the GQP caucus). My worry was not that they intended default but that they might stumble into it — or more likely, close enough to trigger market meltdowns and ensuing economic chaos, even if not actual default — in large part because McQarthy is such a weak leader.
Thank dog he’s also a weak negotiator.
Ruckus
@sab:
If I don’t get my EARNED SS check, I believe I might be just a bit pissed off. And that word bit is doing a hell of a lot of work in that sentence.
And I wonder if rethuglican seniors don’t get their check what that is going to look like. I doubt that a lot of rethuglicans will blame their side if it happens but then actual truth may shine through.
I’ve worked 60 yrs and paid into SS. I enlisted and served in the USN, during a war in which almost 60K Americans died. I see the wounded at the VA all the time. I have zero criminal record. I vote. I paid all the required income tax. My timing and exact details are different than others but the numbers of us that have a similar story land on both sides of the aisle. It is very likely that most Americans have a very similar story. I paid into SS, I earned my SS, it is part and parcel to current day American life. And it allows millions of us to retire. This is a big Biden deal. And he’s done what needs to be done. That in no way can be stated for the rethuglican party.
Jackie
@Jay: Next thing ya know they’ll be open on Sundays!
bbleh
@Roger Moore: cue Steely Dan, “they don’t wanna be accountable, oh yeah …”
Roger Moore
@gene108:
In effect, there are three parties in the House: the Democrats, the Republicans, and the Freedom Caucus. McCarthy had to make a bunch of concessions to the freedom Caucus to get a working majority, one of which was that the Freedom Caucus could threaten him with a vote of no confidence if he went against their wishes. Of course the Democrats aren’t going to sustain the no-confidence vote if it’s because he did something they wanted him to do, but it’s a fundamentally unstable situation.
Matt McIrvin
@Math Guy: Invoking the 14th Amendment would not have put an end to this at all; it would have shifted the playing field to litigation in the courts, where ultraconservatives currently hold the highest cards.
Betty Cracker
@Jackie: Haha! Earlier, Steube complained that when he fell off a ladder and ended up in an ICU a while back, the Trump people called to inquire after his health but Pudd’n did not!
It’s difficult to imagine Trump acting like a human being in that situation; I suspect he employs people who take care of that sort of thing, whereas DeSantis outsources such tasks to Tacky O, who doesn’t seem particularly bright.
Jackie
@Sean: If McTurtle endorses it, hopefully Lee and others will keep their yaps shut.
Betty Cracker
Comey should shut the entire fuck up forever.
Jim, Foolish Literlist
@Sean: I’m kind of surprised at Massie, I would’ve figured him for making a show of opposition
I’m not so worried about the Senate. I’ve seen on twitter dot com (so FWIW) that McConnell has said he wants the deal to go through. McConnell has a much closer relationship to what someone here concisely called The Money the other day.
NotMax
@Jackie
If they truly valued closing for purposes of respecting diversity the doors would be locked and the lights off on Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays.
//
Fair Economist
I think the main danger now is the McQarthy is responsible for counting the votes to get this through (relaying to Biden and Jeffries how many Democrats he will need) and McQarthy is incompetent at his job. So we may end up with not enough Democrats agreeing to support because McQarthy miscounted Republican votes.
sab
@Sean: I cannot understand Republican politics but I don’t think McCarthy lost. I think he won massively by folding quite publicly and not blowing up the world economy.
What a very weird party.
I actually desperately miss talking to my brother, (who is a very bright guy and also a functioning RWNJ) and he sort of tries to understand these guys on econ.
But otherwise his values (econ-disguised racism) were exteremely dangerous to my grandchildren, so I couldn’t in good conscience even be civil. ” Your guys want to kill my grandchildren.” Miss him most days but whatever.
The unforgiveable part of his ideology ( my view, not my big sister’s) is that he is not a white supremacist. He likes Asians, just not Africans. So still a flaming unforgivable racist.
Jay
David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch
I’m sadly disappointed Biden didn’t mint the trillion dollar coin so he could stand next a bar and flip It with his thumb like George Rath in Casino Royal (1967)
Jay
@Betty Cracker:
seconded.
Jim, Foolish Literlist
@Betty Cracker: He was just on the Nicolle Wallace program saying that Garland needs to speak more publicly about the investigations DoJ is conducting. He might not be that smart
also: Qevin’s majority is soon to shrink by one, for a little while, at least. Chris Stewart of Utah is resigning due to his wife’s health
Nelle
@sab: One of my sisters has no other money than social security. My other sister and I send monthly transfers as it is to help with medical services that aren’t covered for her disabled husband. We are beginning to talk about what else we may need to do. Not in our planned budget, but at least we can do something, if necessary.
Sean
@Jim, Foolish Literlist: Massie seems enamored with the fact that his own proposal factors into this bill. Did Kevin McCarthy negotiate that knowing he’d need Massie’s vote on the committee? I don’t want to give credit where it isn’t due, McCarthy doesn’t seem smart enough for that kind of strategy, but if he did, it seemingly paid off for him.
Roger Moore
@bbleh:
I don’t think it was entirely performance. The best way to think about this stuff is to see it as the first steps in negotiating the next budget. From that standpoint, they’ve managed to get themselves some favorable terms.
Ruckus
@Hoodie:
was the point of this bullshit other than typical GOP chaos mongering?
I see an issue here. You are looking for rationality to make a point. And it can’t. Because the only point is, as others have pointed out, to make their already rich sponsors, richer. Which if they do it the way they want, will screw likely over 80% of the population pretty badly.
Jay
@Jim, Foolish Literlist:
or he’s retiring to spend more time with his lawyers, as most GrOPer’s do,………
Scout211
@BlueGuitarist: Nice article. Thanks for the gifty-linky.
This:
Jackie
“Tara Reade, the American who accused President Joe Biden of sexual assault, has moved to Russia,” The Messengerreports.
“Reade made the announcement from Russia, joined by Maria Butina, a Russian-born woman convicted of spying for the Kremlin.”
I got nuttin to add.
Ryan
Yeah, let Speaker Chip Roy lead the party out of darkness.
Jay
artem1s
*spit take
Ken
Several administrations ago, I decided that “but if the Democrats do X, Republicans will use it to attack them” arguments are irrelevant. The Republicans will always attack, even if they have to make stuff up*, so the Democrats might as well be attacked for doing the right thing.
* See: pizza parlor basements being used to extract adrenochrome from kidnapped teens.
sab
@Nelle: We are all old and have been planning this stuff fo sixty years and they think it is okay to pull the rug out when it is too late for us to fix. Who do they think votes for them? It isn’t the children. It is us old farts.
Mr. Bemused Senior
@David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch: George Raft.
Nice image.
eversor
@Jackie:
Maybe Putin will send both of them to front lines!
Roger Moore
@Jackie:
The tankies will happily memory hole the entire episode. Score one more point for traditional news media, who refused to give her a megaphone when too many details from her stories failed to line up.
Jim, Foolish Literlist
@Jackie: I’m looking forward to Chris Hayes having Rebecca Traister on to discuss why they fell for a story that had been debunked several hours before they went on the air, and then Hayes dedicated another segment the next night to scolding people who were saying he beclowned himself. He may have had a lower moment in the last ten years, but I can’t think of it
Geminid
@Sean: Senator Schumer put his colleagues on notice that there may be weekend votes on this bill. That sounds like he is preparing for delaying tactics from Rand Paul-types. But this may go down like the IRA bill did last August: many hours of debate, a few test votes on amendments, and then Senators running for the airport as the bill passes on Friday.
Betty Cracker
@Jay: I was just reading about that in The Daily Beast!
No, we’re lucky to be rid of that lying lunatic.
Sean
@sab: I don’t understand their politics, either. I agree that McCarthy (assuming he doesn’t trigger a recall vote on his speakership) does ultimately win in terms of calling the far-right bluff. Winning doesn’t mean much in what’s left of this house term.
My dad is a GOP person, voted for Trump twice, but he advocates for things democrats support all the time and when I call him on this, or how my priorities as a progressive stem from what he taught me as a child, he can never seem to connect the dots. I can’t get through. I’ll never understand that part of him, although I keep trying to change his mind. It isn’t easy competing against Fox news.
Baud
@Jackie:
I hope she receives a warm homecoming.
Dan B
@patrick II: I don’t understand how the Freedom Caucus pols are not hearing loudly from their major donors. If we default we might go all the way to the precipice of losing the default currency. Maybe some billionaires might make a killing on suddenly very affordable companies but if the American consumer can’t buy shit these cheap companies might be less than worthless. Does business want chaos?
Baud
@Fair Economist:
He’ll forget to carry the one.
Roberto el oso
Regarding the help which Democrats might provide to McCarthy if his Speaker-ship gets threatened … (and yes, this is an extremely petty fantasy on my part, but…) it would be enjoyable if McCarthy was forced to undergo another series of humiliating votes, with Democrats supplying 1 single additional vote each time, till KM had enough … just dragggggg it out, and maybe let Nancy Pelosi be the one who puts him over the top.
Jay
sab
I am not a good organizer. Some Ohio jackals ( including me) want a summer meetup. We think Columbus. Tell us where and when you would show up. Also tell us if we should organize it on Watergirl’s BJ page. We have at least five expectant attendees. Time to put it on an actual meetup page? When? June? July? August? (that is very late.)
As I said, I am not good at this organizing but I very much want it
Watergirl knows my e–mail and also possibly Manyakitty’s.
The Moar You Know
George Washington was at the Jan 6 insurrection with a fur hat and an AR-15.
Delk
WTF? Tara Reade defected to Russia?
Roberto el oso
@Betty Cracker: the use of “defected” seems overly dramatic?
MisterForkbeard
@Delk: She declared that she had moved to Russia because she didn’t feel safe under Biden’s rule, and that the US government and media were colluding to hurt her and suppress her story.
And also, that she’s an anti-imperialist and couldn’t stay silent over <wait for it> what the US was doing in Ukraine.
Aussie Sheila
@rikyrah:
I’ve written it before and don’t mind writing it again. Joe Biden is the best US President of my political lifetime. His political experience plus his ability to recognise and employ governmental management competence is a testament to his skills and the value of solid political experience in the Office.
He deserves the full support of every Democrat and democrat in 2024, as does VP Harris. It’s not just the future of US democracy that depends on his success.
Ultra Left ‘heighten the contradictions’ on line idiots should not be ignored. They should be excoriated for repeating the mistakes of the left in Germany in the 1930s.
Ruckus
@Sean:
For many, their side in politics is set when they are young, things they heard/learned at home for example. They are unwilling to change that side because they have been told that the opposition is always trying to kill them. OK, maybe not kill them…. But often that side, in a two sided system such as we have sticks with them for life. I have a friend who is still a registered republican in his late 70s and yet he votes democratic and has been for a lot of years. He says he gets a lot of info from that side by being registered rethug, so he stays that to see first hand how bad they are.
MisterForkbeard
@Roberto el oso: I thought so too at first, but she’s announced she’s seeking Russian citizenship because she’s in fear for her life within the United States. Because of Biden. In particular, she’s literally hanging out with known Russian Spy Marina Butina who will be working with her on citizenship and continuing to use her as a propaganda tool against the US.
So yeah, it’s literally a defection. Though I don’t think she announced it that way.
Delk
Defecation.
Jay
Redshift
@rikyrah:
They do, but there’s more to it than that. They literally believe Democrats are “buying” votes with social programs, like they’re buying votes with tax cuts. They want to give stuff to their voters and force Democrats to take stuff away from theirs, or not be able to give them stuff. They don’t want to do it themselves because that would energize Democratic voters against them.
So there’s some accountability there, but also they no longer have a strong ideology against social spending, it’s almost purely motivated by wanting to harm the Dems.
Kay
@Scout211:
We’ve had kids here ace the Christian homeschooling standardized tests and then “graduate” and take a community college placement test for basic courses and fail. It’s devastating – they are told they’re “excelllng” and then real world they’re way behind.
For a long time there was a website, here, where one can read the stories.
Ohio doesn’t regulate homeschooling at all which has made the TRUANCY system illogical and ridiculous, because why should anyone send their kids to school when Christian fundamentalists – who just have to claim “homeschooling!” – get a complete pass? I keep waiting for one of the parents hauled into juvie court for their kids missing 14 days out of every 30 to challenge the prosecution based on the fact that we now have a whole category of people who are exempt from compulsory schooling.
sab
@Delk: Huh?. My cats get it but not me. I am busy elsewhere but still care about the cats (more than they manage for me.)
sab
@Kay:
Lapassionara
@BlueGuitarist: thank you. That was very informative. Even hopeful.
Geminid
@Dan B: It’s not just the major donors Republican Reps would be hearing from. Owners of medium and large businesses and allied professionals have long been the backbone of local Republican parties. This group may have lost a lot of power to the radicals and Bible thumpers, but they still punch above their weight. If they desert Republican incumbents, Club for Growth money and political preachers won’t be enough to elect Republicans in any but the reddest districts.
I think the last part is the key. Gerrymandering has created enough deep red districts for Freedom Caucus members to survive and thrive. But Republicans still have to win enough purple districts to get a majority, and they barely pulled that off last November.
I don’t think they can do it again next year. Even if this bill passes, the radicals will pull the larger caucus too far right on too many other issues for a lot of them to win reelection. If I were a purple-district Republican, or a staffer for one, I’d be polishing up my resume and prepping my professional network, because I could pretty much count on job hunting come January, 2025.
David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch
@Roberto el oso: She’s more “defective” than “defected”
karen marie
@bbleh: Ha!
Especially depressing is that Andy Biggs “represents” the district I have the misfortune of living in. I called his office to find out what his problem is, and was told Biggs believes defaulting on the debt ceiling will have no effect on the US or world economies.
Gob smacking.
Jackie
@eversor: I’m hoping they can entice Tuckems to join them!
Jackie
@Baud: She was positively gushing from the warm welcomes. I didn’t see her holding a large bouquet of roses, though.🤷🏼♀️
artem1s
@Sean:
There is no reason to believe that Jeffers won’t whip the votes needed. But he’s correct to point out to the GOP, MSM and the rest of the country that it’s the responsibility of the Speaker and majority party to do this. Not POTUS, not the minority party, not anyone else. If you enemy is giving you an opportunity to make them look weak and ridiculous, grab it!
Manyakitty
@Jackie: this is an excellent take. Rubin ended up making a sincere change and we’re all better for it.
eversor
@Jackie:
That would be great. But I doubt Tuckems would make it through basic. If he did, that fucker would get fragged by his own troops with a quickness.
He wanted to join the CIA but they didn’t want him. The thought of him trying to pass Special Activities Division training is fucking hilarious though.
Roberto el oso
@MisterForkbeard: ah, that makes sense … I wonder how long before the rush of pleasure from self-inflicted martyrdom wears off though …
sab
@sab: Comment timed out. How much I pined for Ohio as a child in Florida, and how much I hope my grand-children leave this misbeguided state. Sorry kids, you have no future here except as a political grifter, and that won’t happen if you are not white (nor should it. Possibly corrupt.)
Geminid
@Jackie: Maybe Edwin Snowden will show up at Reade’s door with a rose in his teeth!
Dan B
@karen marie: The GOP are terrible at macro-econmics. They think it’s all like household or corporate economics. They can’t grasp that economics is about the flow of goods and services not about their static value.
Lapassionara
@Betty Cracker: “Surrounded by protection and safety,” is to laugh at. Hope she stays away from cups of hot tea and open windows.
sab
Oops
Miss Bianca
@Betty Cracker: OMG, could we be so lucky that a bunch of these tankies and other Russophiles might just self-deport to Russia? Could we *be* so lucky?
Bill Arnold
@Hoodie:
It did damage and will continue to do damage to the GOP, which Republicans, comfortable and smug in their elaborate echo chambers, did not expect, and Biden’s team identified and has started to exploit at least one intra-party GOP structural weakness.
This is not the 2015-2016 Democratic Party.
Manyakitty
@sab: I vote for July.
sab
@Manyakitty: Me too.
Aussie Sheila
@Miss Bianca:
If they did and accepted Russian citizenship would that automatically vitiate their US citizenship? Note that Murdoch actually renounced his Australian citizenship to become a U.S. citizen. Not that I care, except I think he does more damage to the world as a US citizen than he would have if he had stayed in Oz.
Manyakitty
@sab: excellent
Kelly
In 1979 young Dick Gephardt Implemented a fix to the debt ceiling problem that lasted 15 years. Working with the parliamentarian he established a rule that the debt ceiling was “deemed” raised whenever legislation that raised the debt was passed. Like so many good things Newt Gingrich broke it.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/05/how-dick-gephardt-fixed-the-debt-ceiling-problem/238571/
Roger Moore
@Aussie Sheila:
Not under US law. Some countries require citizens renounce their citizenship if they become naturalized elsewhere, but the US allows citizens to retain theirs. A quick check doesn’t indicate that Russia requires people to renounce their citizenship in another country if they become naturalized Russians, so she probably could retain her US citizenship if she really wanted to. If she’s claiming asylum in Russia, though, she will probably renounce her US citizenship as soon as she’s naturalized.
Bill Arnold
@Baud:
What is that in degrees Kelvin?
Aussie Sheila
@Roger Moore:
If she did, that’s one less kook to worry about. Only 74 million left to go then! 😀
Geminid
@Kelly: Fun fact: While she was a student at the University of Illinois-Champaign, first year Congresswoman Nikki Budzinski was an intern for Dick Gephardt.
Budzinski worked a lot of responsible political jobs since then. While she’s one of the few members of last year’s class never to hold elective office before, she is also one of the most experienced. I believe Nikki Budzinzki will prove to be a formidable Democratic politician. She ought to be; she’s Water Girl’s Representative!
Ken
I don’t think that will be a problem, as long as she shows up at the studio every Tuesday to record a new video about how the US sucks and Russia is the greatest place ever.
She may even receive an extra turnip ration.
NotMax
@sab
Nominated!
Skepticat
@BlueGuitarist: That article absolutely made my morning. Had comments been available, I’d have sent that brave and intelligent couple huzzahs and heartfelt thanks. It’s sad that they’re so unusual, but change has to start somewhere.
Chief Oshkosh
@rikyrah:
MSM says “Challenge accepted…”
UncleEbeneezer
Miss Bianca
@Aussie Sheila: As I recall, it’s all but impossible to actually renounce your US citizenship. Now, if you’ve managed to make things so hot for yourself in the US that you were about to be arrested and *then* you abscond, I think you can be actually stripped of your citizenship, but thinking and knowing are two different things…
ETA: I see Roger Moore got in there before me. Never mind!
bbleh
@Geminid: concur. There’s still a lotta Republican reps who will take calls from their local homebuilder/developer, auto dealership, regional bank president, etc., and I don’t think any of them are too keen on the bomb-throwers in the Krazy Kids Kaucus or the idea of a default
And also agree re 2024 purple districts and House control UNLESS as frequently mentioned the economy goes badly sideways or something else happens that the Great Uninformed will blame on Biden and take out on Dems generally.
brantl
What happens when one party has the attention span of gnats.
Roger Moore
@Miss Bianca:
It’s not that hard to renounce your US citizenship if you have citizenship in another country. There are forms to fill out and other hoops to jump through, but it’s not technically difficult. I’m sure the Russian government will be happy to help her.
Scamp Dog
@Jackie: it worked!
grandmaBear
@sab: late to this thread, but WG knows my email as well & I give my permission to send it to you. Before August is better for me, not on a Monday.
Chris Johnson
@Jackie: Not a chance. Tucker has still got far too much work to do here, unlike Tara Reade.
Chris Johnson
@Miss Bianca: No. I keep saying. They have literal WORK here. People joke about Tucker, but he’s the agent Donald Trump could never be. They have spy work to do, of various sorts. The retirement plan is really shit.
The only way you get to be Tara Reade is if your name is maybe recognizable, but you have NO other usefulness at all. And almost anybody can be used for Russia’s purposes. Tara Reade is so the exception to the rule. The rule is, you’re not done.