• Menu
  • Skip to primary navigation
  • Skip to main content
  • Skip to primary sidebar

Before Header

  • About Us
  • Lexicon
  • Contact Us
  • Our Store
  • ↑
  • ↓
  • ←
  • →

Balloon Juice

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Hi god, it’s us. Thanks a heap, you’re having a great week and it’s only Thursday!

Jack be nimble, jack be quick, hurry up and indict this prick.

Accused of treason; bitches about the ratings. I am in awe.

A lot of Dems talk about what the media tells them to talk about. Not helpful.

Not all heroes wear capes.

T R E 4 5 O N

Republicans: slavery is when you own me. freedom is when I own you.

Prediction: the GOP will rethink its strategy of boycotting future committees.

Republicans can’t even be trusted with their own money.

They fucked up the fucking up of the fuckup!

Wow, I can’t imagine what it was like to comment in morse code.

“Everybody’s entitled to be an idiot.”

Sitting here in limbo waiting for the dice to roll

It’s always darkest before the other shoe drops.

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

Within six months Twitter will be fully self-driving.

No one could have predicted…

Republicans are radicals, not conservatives.

Usually wrong but never in doubt

Republicans do not pay their debts.

Take hopelessness and turn it into resilience.

Pessimism assures that nothing of any importance will change.

This has so much WTF written all over it that it is hard to comprehend.

In short, I come down firmly on all sides of the issue.

Mobile Menu

  • Winnable VA House Races
  • Donate with Venmo, Zelle & PayPal
  • Site Feedback
  • War in Ukraine
  • Submit Photos to On the Road
  • Politics
  • On The Road
  • Open Threads
  • Topics
  • COVID-19 Coronavirus
  • Authors
  • About Us
  • Contact Us
  • Lexicon
  • Our Store
  • Politics
  • Open Threads
  • War in Ukraine
  • Garden Chats
  • On The Road
  • 2021-22 Fundraising!
You are here: Home / Foreign Affairs / War for Ukraine Day 461: Everyone Could See This Coming – Tara Reade Has Moved To Moscow & Is Seeking Russian Citizenship

War for Ukraine Day 461: Everyone Could See This Coming – Tara Reade Has Moved To Moscow & Is Seeking Russian Citizenship

by Adam L Silverman|  May 30, 20236:20 pm| 61 Comments

This post is in: Foreign Affairs, Foreign Policy, Military, Open Threads, Russia, Silverman on Security, War, War in Ukraine

FacebookTweetEmail

(Image by NEIVANMADE)

The Russians once again, or, perhaps, continue to open up at Kyiv and the rest of Ukraine as night gives way to day.

Every Ukrainian's rage is directed at every terrorist.
Last night, russians attacked Ukraine with 31 Iranian-made Shahed drones.
According to @KpsZSU, Ukraine’s air defense shot down 29 of them.
The vast majority of drones were destroyed in the skies above Kyiv and Kyiv region.… pic.twitter.com/WIpLfBbewe

— Defense of Ukraine (@DefenceU) May 30, 2023

Full text of the Ukrainian MOD’s tweet above:

Every Ukrainian’s rage is directed at every terrorist.
Last night, russians attacked Ukraine with 31 Iranian-made Shahed drones.
According to @KpsZSU, Ukraine’s air defense shot down 29 of them.
The vast majority of drones were destroyed in the skies above Kyiv and Kyiv region.

📸 Pavlo Petrov

 

This is Kyiv today.
We’ve said it before.
We’ll say it again.
russia is a terrorist state.
And will be dealt with accordingly.

📷 Valentyn Ogirenko / Reuters pic.twitter.com/BiJbZNiueq

— Defense of Ukraine (@DefenceU) May 30, 2023

We work 🫡 pic.twitter.com/5TYW7QesQm

— Ukrainian Air Force (@KpsZSU) May 30, 2023

Here is President Zelenskyy’s address from earlier today. Video below, English transcript after the jump:

We continue consolidating partners to make Ukrainian air defense as effective as possible – address by the President of Ukraine

30 May 2023 – 22:11

Good health to you, fellow Ukrainians!

A brief report on this day. A pretty loud day.

First, I thank our Air Force and all the defenders of the sky for repelling another night raid by Russian drones.

Again and again, I thank our warriors for every downed Shahed, for every downed Russian missile. Because it always means saved lives, saved infrastructure.

Second, unfortunately, there were hits, unfortunately, there were falling debris with the corresponding consequences, unfortunately, there were losses… My condolences!

It is very, very important to take air raid alerts into account and not to take them carelessly.

I want all the local authorities responsible for specific communities and territories to hear me now.

Shelters in cities should be accessible. People need to understand when and how the number and availability of shelters will increase.

This is the responsibility of specific officials, and it is a specific responsibility.

Third, we continue to consolidate our partners to make Ukrainian air defense as effective as possible. Russian terror must be defeated every day and every night, in every region of Ukraine, in the skies of every Ukrainian city and village. When any attack by Russian terrorists ends in failure for the terrorists, their defeats will become a source of our long-term security.

Today I spoke with German Chancellor Scholz, in particular about air defense.

I thanked him for the air defense systems already provided to Ukraine, that is, for the lives of our people already saved by Germany. We also discussed the overall defense situation and our security cooperation.

On the eve of important international events that will take place shortly, we are coming up with common positions and decisions. And I thank Olaf, Mr. Chancellor, for his personal determination, which in many ways becomes the determination of the whole of Europe.

Fourth, I spoke with representatives of the powerful British defense company BAE Systems. This is a truly large-scale weapons manufacturer – the weapons that we need now and that we will need in the future to ensure the security of our country and the entire region.

We are working to create an appropriate base for production and repair in Ukraine. We are talking about a wide range of weapons: from tanks to artillery.

We will provide Ukraine, and thus the whole of Europe, with this new foundation of strength.

Fifth, today I met with the delegation of one of the world’s leading think tanks, the American Atlantic Council. It was a good, useful conversation to protect our common values, those of everyone in the world who cherishes freedom.

I informed the Atlantic Council representatives about our current main defense needs in the confrontation. We discussed the steps that bring the creation of a new aviation coalition closer. We are steadily moving closer to this result – to providing our warriors with modern fighter jets. And I thank all the people of the United States, each and every one in the political community who supports us, I thank President Biden personally and both parties in Congress.

Now, in Ukraine, on our land, in our sky, it is being decided whether freedom and civilization will retain global leadership in this century. Decided by us, together with America, together with Europe, together with all our allies and partners. I thank everyone in the world who helps us!

And, of course, today, as always, I thank our warriors. All those who are now fighting for Ukraine. All those who are on combat missions. At combat posts. The Avdiivka sector, Bakhmut, Maryinka, Shakhtarsk sector. I thank everyone who defends our positions in Luhansk and Kharkiv regions. I am grateful to each and every one who defends Zaporizhzhia and Kherson region. I thank everyone who keeps our border strong.

Our brigades that are fighting. Our brigades that are ready to move forward. And our intelligence. Our security forces. On all fronts and at all levels, the enemy must feel that Ukraine has become stronger.

Glory to our heroes! 

Glory to Ukraine!

More on the Russian bombardment:

Russia: *bombs Ukraine into the stone age for the last year and a half, several major cities razed to the ground, the country’s east turned into a wasteland, the capital city had 3 major missile & drone attacks within 24 hours*
Ukraine: *leaves a scratch on a posh Moscow mansion*…

— Illia Ponomarenko 🇺🇦 (@IAPonomarenko) May 30, 2023

Here’s the full text of Ponomarenko’s tweet:

Russia: *bombs Ukraine into the stone age for the last year and a half, several major cities razed to the ground, the country’s east turned into a wasteland, the capital city had 3 major missile & drone attacks within 24 hours*
Ukraine: *leaves a scratch on a posh Moscow mansion*
Russia: *AAAAAAAAAAAHH! The Kiev regime’s act of terror! What’s the point in striking civilian buildings, that’s pure terrorism! Look what they’ve done to us! And the world is doing nothing to stop this genocide!*

The Sleepless Nights in Kyiv is not really about just terrorizing Ukraine's civilian population. I think even Russians at this point have realized that just doesn't work as it has never worked throughout history.
They are trying to undermine our military's counteroffensive…

— Illia Ponomarenko 🇺🇦 (@IAPonomarenko) May 30, 2023

And the full text of his second tweet:

The Sleepless Nights in Kyiv is not really about just terrorizing Ukraine’s civilian population. I think even Russians at this point have realized that just doesn’t work as it has never worked throughout history. They are trying to undermine our military’s counteroffensive preparations across the country and also exhaust our air defense capabilities so our advancing forces would be far more vulnerable when the time comes. The next few weeks should show if Russia’s new bombing campaign was successful in this regard.

Moscow, Russia:

Moscow came under attack by several drones on Tuesday morning, exposing the Russian capital’s vulnerability to retaliation over President Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine. https://t.co/cnlwemVP0F via @FT pic.twitter.com/VnOK0Ii4Wc

— Christopher Miller (@ChristopherJM) May 30, 2023

Rob Lee has a detailed thread with videos.

Russian channels are saying that air defenses around Moscow are trying to shoot down UAVs. They look like the same UAVs used in Krasnodar and one was reportedly armed with a KZ-6. https://t.co/M3liGqHFrMhttps://t.co/UdoHcEKhuRhttps://t.co/5f7TAek6iRhttps://t.co/vkMcHUKyaq pic.twitter.com/bC2dfulp7r

— Rob Lee (@RALee85) May 30, 2023

Baza claims more than 10 UAVs have been shot down. 3/https://t.co/nKKv4swxQVhttps://t.co/XtuAiRdC7vhttps://t.co/6vTYMUvczM pic.twitter.com/gZyYZtSOmB

— Rob Lee (@RALee85) May 30, 2023

Video of one of the UAVs. 5/https://t.co/dgTVmIqH3C pic.twitter.com/L0d5gA0PNM

— Rob Lee (@RALee85) May 30, 2023

7/https://t.co/Uks3lcV8Kp

— Rob Lee (@RALee85) May 30, 2023

Another video and an explosion. The Shot telegram channel claims that, according to preliminary information, more than 30 UAVs were used. 9/https://t.co/a5L4qRYso3https://t.co/s9k0mXDrSZhttps://t.co/0FNJN06MHu pic.twitter.com/JYvcHpldzR

— Rob Lee (@RALee85) May 30, 2023

Same video without the watermark and crop. 11/https://t.co/O8NZ8NTcDm pic.twitter.com/B9ksAhrgJB

— Rob Lee (@RALee85) May 30, 2023

Videos showing UAV wreckage. 13/https://t.co/zYBzmSeRUhhttps://t.co/otVQjsGuiyhttps://t.co/OsSMOi6SSYhttps://t.co/ogxc0ko55c pic.twitter.com/HHp9hPzEpj

— Rob Lee (@RALee85) May 30, 2023

15/https://t.co/CJ0NFs6OEq

— Rob Lee (@RALee85) May 30, 2023

Putin* got out of his bunker to say the Moscow air defence operated satisfyingly stopping the drone attack this morning, though areas of improvement remain. When it comes to Russia's richest people's houses, it was important for Putin to make a statement and reassure them.

He… pic.twitter.com/rl1ilKdH0M

— Dmitri (@wartranslated) May 30, 2023

Here’s the full text of Dmitri’s tweet:

Putin* got out of his bunker to say the Moscow air defence operated satisfyingly stopping the drone attack this morning, though areas of improvement remain. When it comes to Russia’s richest people’s houses, it was important for Putin to make a statement and reassure them. He also didn’t miss the opportunity to mention Ukrainian nuclear weapons, and even said that Ukraine launched a terror campaign against its own civilians preventing them from speaking publically (??). *Accused of war crimes, kidnapping children.

Out of area man has thoughts:

An angry statement from Prigozhin regarding the unexplained incident with unidentified UAVs that crashed in Moscow this morning. pic.twitter.com/NJ4ZPaoPM9

— Dmitri (@wartranslated) May 30, 2023

Tara Reade, writer of gushing encomiums to Putin, has moved to Moscow, is seeking Russian citizenship, and is being assisted by Marina Butinaa.

As a reminder, US journalist Evan Gershkovich is still under arrest and Brittney Griner was released only after a prisoner exchange. Why would any American going to Russia have feel safe?…Ah https://t.co/bdJXniEP23

— Don Moynihan (@donmoyn) May 30, 2023

John Scott-Railton has more. First tweet from the thread, the rest from the Thread Reader App:

https://twitter.com/jsrailton/status/1663621144145002500

Tara Reade just spent much of her 🇷🇺on camera time pushing right wing talking points about the 2024 US election.

Oh, and how wonderful things are in Russia.Image

Reade is just another American that has discovered the formula:

Go to 🇷🇺Russia & echo gov propaganda… and the government will make sure you get all the flattery you can eat.Image

By Reade’s telling she was so blown away by 🇷🇺Russian cuisine & museums while in town for an interview… that the decision was spontaneous.

Butina echoes the narrative.Image

Hope America can survive the grifter brain drain to 🇷🇺Russia. 

Tara [Reade] asked me to make it possible for her to come to Moscow..when she told her entire story…we Russians would never leave people to their devices… what she does here will make a major contribution to promoting unity between our two nations.

– Maria ButinaImage

Who could’ve possible known?

Pretty much everyone who was paying attention.

That’s enough for tonight.

Your daily Patron!

There’s no new tweets from Patron’s official account, but please allow me to introduce Fougasse!

Meet Fougasse. The tankers call him a non-staff psychologist of the 92nd brigade.
This puppy was born on the front lines. He now serves in the #UAarmy and attends troops formation every morning.

📷 @armyinformcomua/ Olga Vikarchuk pic.twitter.com/qndVAKzuqO

— Defense of Ukraine (@DefenceU) May 30, 2023

There is a new video from Patron’s official TikTok!

@patron__dsns

Дуже сподіваюсь, що зміг підняти вам настрій хоч на 1%🫶🏻

♬ оригінальний звук – Patron_official

The machine translation of the caption is:

I really hope that I was able to cheer you up even by 1%. 🫶🏻

Open thread!

FacebookTweetEmail
Previous Post: « Tara Reade defects to Russia
Next Post: Acts of Kindness: We Are All Flavored Differently Acts of Kindness: Lost is Found 1»

Reader Interactions

61Comments

  1. 1.

    Old School

    May 30, 2023 at 6:32 pm

    Fougasse needs his own social media accounts.  He’s adorable!

  2. 2.

    different-church-lady

    May 30, 2023 at 6:34 pm

    She’s gonna love being deployed to the front lines in Bakhmut!

  3. 3.

    Sanjeevs

    May 30, 2023 at 6:39 pm

    Thanks for all your updates Adam.

    Been watching a series called The Troubles : A Secret History about how the various British Intelligence services tried to counter the IRA. It’s very  good and it might interest you.

    https://youtu.be/R3scz1KD9eE

  4. 4.

    Adam L Silverman

    May 30, 2023 at 6:48 pm

    @Sanjeevs: Thanks! I’ll give it a look.

    And thanks for the kind words. You’re most welcome.

  5. 5.

    Jay

    May 30, 2023 at 6:49 pm

    NAFO Meme Machine is kicking it today,

    https://twitter.com/NAFOMemesCenter

    Should be even better tomorrow,

    In today's #vatniksoup, I'll introduce a British musician and activist, Roger Waters (@rogerwaters). He's best-known for his involvement in Pink Floyd, and for his love for the totalitarian regimes and their lies around the world.1/26 pic.twitter.com/A2tfpUzAkQ— Pekka Kallioniemi (@P_Kallioniemi) May 29, 2023

  6. 6.

    Joe Falco

    May 30, 2023 at 6:55 pm

    “Everyone could see this coming…”

    Even Sarah Palin!

  7. 7.

    Adam L Silverman

    May 30, 2023 at 6:56 pm

    @Joe Falco: Well she can see Russia from her house.

  8. 8.

    Alison Rose

    May 30, 2023 at 6:59 pm

    Now, in Ukraine, on our land, in our sky, it is being decided whether freedom and civilization will retain global leadership in this century.

    Dang, that’s a great line.

    I swear, if as a child you asked me to imagine what the monster under my bed would look like as a person, I’d have drawn something eerily similar to prigozhin. That man is a good example of inner ugliness showing on the outside.

    As I said in the thread below re: Reade, feeling safe in russia is the reddest flag ever. But whatevs, no one here will miss your lying ass. Is she gonna try to become putin’s mistress? I assume he already has a few, but go for it, girl. Live the dream.

    Thank you as always, Adam.

  9. 9.

    Jay

    May 30, 2023 at 7:08 pm

    My good friend, the incredible journalist @ralakbar just got President Biden on record. ATACMS are STILL IN PLAY. Listen below and share far and wide. Arm Ukraine Now. pic.twitter.com/fXdg2oviRw— Sarah Ashton-Cirillo (@SarahAshtonLV) May 29, 2023

  10. 10.

    different-church-lady

    May 30, 2023 at 7:13 pm

    I am sad to say I lost track of Scott Ritter’s biography since Iraq.

    I am also sad to say I have now caught up on Scott Ritter’s biography since Iraq. (ugggg…)

  11. 11.

    Jay

    May 30, 2023 at 7:15 pm

    Oh so that’s what it’s called…. #RussiaIsANaziState pic.twitter.com/DPRzFOdjVD— Raccoon NAFO fella 🇺🇦 (@grumpyraccoon87) May 29, 2023

  12. 12.

    Jay

    May 30, 2023 at 7:18 pm

    @different-church-lady:

    yup

    https://twitter.com/P_Kallioniemi/status/1621048526498336768

    He has a full indexed searchable website,

    https://vatniksoup.com/

  13. 13.

    Jay

    May 30, 2023 at 7:21 pm

    The Russian partisans who entered the Bilhorod region in Russia have thousands of candidates waiting to join their ranks, a spokesman for the Legion "Freedom of Russia" with the call sign "Caesar" told The Times. https://t.co/mfQFuZUPpl— NOELREPORTS 🇪🇺 🇺🇦 (@NOELreports) May 30, 2023

    "We will will continue to raid the border until our forces, growing at the expense of recruits, are large enough to storm Moscow. We have serious capabilities like mortars, armored vehicles, Stingers, portable anti-tank systems and highly effective reconnaissance drones," he said— NOELREPORTS 🇪🇺 🇺🇦 (@NOELreports) May 30, 2023

  14. 14.

    Bill Arnold

    May 30, 2023 at 7:29 pm

    (From the Reade thread below.)
    T. Reade fluffed PutinRussia in this 2018 medium post, and deleted it when it surfaced during the anti-Biden op she was involved in, and my link to a copy of it at web.archive.org doesn’t work (additional cleanup, perhaps). This link still works:
    Bring on the Light (Dec 17, 2018, Alexandra Tara Reade)

    What if I told you that everything you learned about Russia was wrong? What if I told you as an American citizen, we have been fed propaganda to further a certain political American agenda?
    …
    President Putin scares the power elite in America because he is a compassionate, caring, visionary leader.

    @Alison Rose:

    Is she gonna try to become putin’s mistress? I assume he already has a few, but go for it, girl. Live the dream.

    Laughed out loud, for real.

  15. 15.

    PJ

    May 30, 2023 at 7:31 pm

    It seems like Ms. Reade has succumbed to what historians call “the Snowden Effect” – to be so overcome by the cuisine and artifacts of Russia that one spontaneously decides to stay there and seek citizenship.  (Previously known as “the Philby Effect”.)

  16. 16.

    JaySinWA

    May 30, 2023 at 7:35 pm

    Well I for one wasn’t paying attention to Tara Reade and was surprised by this announcement. Snowden I can kind of understand, fleeing probable prosecution. Tara doesn’t seem to have the same sort of risks outside of her own paranoia, but then again I have not been paying attention.

  17. 17.

    JaySinWA

    May 30, 2023 at 7:37 pm

    @PJ: Did Snowden use those lines? I was under the impression he was corralled into going to Russia by his handlers and then tried to make the best of it.

  18. 18.

    Jay

    May 30, 2023 at 7:38 pm

    @JaySinWA:

    it’s just grift. Moscovia will pay her to be there, where her grifting opportunities in the US had dried up.

  19. 19.

    JaySinWA

    May 30, 2023 at 7:53 pm

    @Jay: She must have hit some real hard times to make Moscow payola look attractive. Of course the first taste is probably a lot sweeter than the full meal. I can’t imagine her propaganda value is going to keep her beyond subsistence payments after a few months.

  20. 20.

    zhena gogolia

    May 30, 2023 at 8:05 pm

    @Bill Arnold: she’s not his type

  21. 21.

    Sebastian

    May 30, 2023 at 8:07 pm

    From the looks of it, Butina seems not very enthusiastic about her job.

  22. 22.

    Roger Moore

    May 30, 2023 at 8:08 pm

    @JaySinWA:

    You shouldn’t ignore the possibility she is suffering from delusions of persecution.  I can totally imagine someone who already had some tendency in that direction being afraid for their life after making accusations like the ones Reade made.  It doesn’t mean that fear is justified, but it could very easily be real.

  23. 23.

    Jay

    May 30, 2023 at 8:10 pm

    @JaySinWA:

    she will get free room, a biggie given she couldn’t even pay $200 a month for a stall in a horse barn. Here a walk in closet is $800.

    she will set up a substack, a buy me a coffee, a bunch of ways to get $2.50 at a time from a bunch of the tankies, vatnicks and Biden haterz out there, which will add up to quite a few $K a month.

    A poster I go to almost every day, bleg’s $3-$4k a month, which is more than enough in Costa Rica.

    The same sort of grifting will provide an upper middle class income for a no talent grifter in Moscovia.

  24. 24.

    YY_Sima Qian

    May 30, 2023 at 8:11 pm

    I get Soviet spyings wanting to escape to Moscow during the early to mid-Cold War. Many of them were committed Communists. The USSR was still a functioning state back then, & showing relatively rapid economic growth after WW II. Why would anyone want to go to the Russian Federation now?

  25. 25.

    Halffasthero

    May 30, 2023 at 8:12 pm

    So. Anything happen since I was last here?

  26. 26.

    Roger Moore

    May 30, 2023 at 8:22 pm

    @YY_Sima Qian:

    Why would anyone want to go to the Russian Federation now?

    It clearly has attractions for dedicated White supremacists and anti-LGBTQ+ bigots.  Don’t dismiss their willingness to see what Putin wants them to see rather than what is.

  27. 27.

    MagdaInBlack

    May 30, 2023 at 8:26 pm

    @zhena gogolia: Not a blonde, blue eyed gymnast?

  28. 28.

    Jay

    May 30, 2023 at 8:28 pm

    @YY_Sima Qian:

     

    @Roger Moore:

    average annual income in Moscovia is $5,500 and change.

    Toss in the free rent from the State and maybe a “pension” for “services”,….

  29. 29.

    YY_Sima Qian

    May 30, 2023 at 8:30 pm

    @Roger Moore: True, but I would have thought they would want to work on establishing reactionary authoritarianism to the US, rather than escaping to the Putinist paradise. Of course, some of these grifters are not interested in work of any kind.

  30. 30.

    YY_Sima Qian

    May 30, 2023 at 8:31 pm

    @Jay: You mean monthly income of $5,500, right?

  31. 31.

    Jay

    May 30, 2023 at 8:35 pm

    @YY_Sima Qian:

    Annual, that’s why Mom’s sell their sons for Lada’s, and their son’s, if they live steal toilets in Ukraine.

  32. 32.

    The Moar You Know

    May 30, 2023 at 8:52 pm

    The best thing in Russia is the airport, which you can use to leave Russia.

  33. 33.

    Chetan Murthy

    May 30, 2023 at 8:53 pm

    @YY_Sima Qian: Doubt it.  $5.5k/mo is …. >$60k/yr.  That’s a good bit higher than the US median income.

  34. 34.

    Chetan Murthy

    May 30, 2023 at 8:55 pm

    Watching Prigo and that war criminal Strelkov/Girkin (but then, they’re both war criminals), I’m struck that they *almost* seem to get it when it comes to their own country.  Of course, they’re still brutal imperialists who think nothing of snuffing out lives anywhere else, but still, at some level, they get that their own country is a goddamn mess.

    It’s such a pity they’ll never understand that the imperialism they practice and preach, is tied-up with why their homeland is such a godforsaken shithole.

  35. 35.

    Adam L Silverman

    May 30, 2023 at 9:03 pm

    @Halffasthero: Not really.

  36. 36.

    YY_Sima Qian

    May 30, 2023 at 9:31 pm

    @Chetan Murthy: But average annual income of US$5.5K is approximately lower middle income economy by global standards. An average line worker in a factory in China (even in the interior part of the country) makes more than that. The minimum wage in China is US$365 / mo, or US$4.38K.

    At least before the sanctions, Russia was considered a high middle income economy, & Moscow/Saint Petersburg should be by far the highest income regions in Russia. The proper comparison w/ Moscow should be NYC/London/Paris/Frankfurt, not large countries as a whole. The average annual incomes in Beijing & Shanghai are ~ US$45K. Even Mumbai is ~ US$7.3K.

  37. 37.

    Jay

    May 30, 2023 at 9:42 pm

    @YY_Sima Qian:

    which is why Tara will do fine. If she can pull in $4K online a month she will be better off than most. That’s why all the grifters, incel edgelords and worse, move to certain countries, aside from the extradition treaties.

    Sure, the amenities are crap, the cars are dressed up Lada’s, there is more gold paint than a Trump toilet, and the alcohol is 50% wood grain,………. but you look like a baller to the simps online,…..

  38. 38.

    Chetan Murthy

    May 30, 2023 at 9:46 pm

    @YY_Sima Qian: https://www.ceicdata.com/en/indicator/russia/annual-household-income-per-capita#:~:text=Russia%20Annual%20Household%20Income%20per,averaged%20value%20of%205%2C523.525%20USD.

    • Russia Annual Household Income per Capita reached 7,932.623 USD in Dec 2022, compared with the previous value of 6,561.323 USD in Dec 2021.
  39. 39.

    Mike in Pasadena

    May 30, 2023 at 9:46 pm

    In case you missed it, Putin was quoted asserting that Ukraine is a terrorist state because two drones hit a Moscow apartment building causing minimal damage.  Pot meet kettle.

  40. 40.

    Jay

    May 30, 2023 at 9:57 pm

    @YY_Sima Qian:

    Moscow and Saint Petersburg get skewed by all the billionaires.

    Like here, we have the 2nd highest “average incomes” in Canada, with the highest costs of living in Canada.

    80% of “us”, the ones that keep the city running, don’t make a living wage. The “average” wage here is $155,461. The “median” wage is $38,452. The “living wage” as of 2022, before rent inflation, food inflation, all the other inflations was $50k and change.

  41. 41.

    Andrya

    May 30, 2023 at 9:58 pm

    @Jay:   I am emphatically not an expert on economics, but I tried a bit of research using Google and other websites (probably not super-authoritative tools).  Results as follows:

    Google:  average monthly income in Moscow is 128,300 rubles ($1611 US dollars) or $19,330 per year.

    Salary Explorer and also  Time Doctor:  124,000 rubles ($1557 per month, $18,684 per year).

    It’s also important to consider that russia  has very high income inequality, so it makes a difference whether the word “average” is being used to indicate the mean or the median (the midpoint of the data).  When a small number of rich people will be hoarding most of the money, the mean will be much larger than the median.

    ETA:  Jay beat me to it.

  42. 42.

    Jay

    May 30, 2023 at 9:59 pm

    @Mike in Pasadena:

    it was a slovi occupied apartment building in the billionaires zone, so,………

  43. 43.

    YY_Sima Qian

    May 30, 2023 at 10:29 pm

    @Chetan Murthy: I read the same webpage from Google search, but that is Russia as a whole. Frankly I am shocked by how low Russian income has been even before the sanctions.

    However, Moscow would be much higher than Russia as a whole, just like NYC is much higher than the US as a whole. I don’t think avg. monthly income in Moscow is as high as US$5.5K, but I don’t think avg. annual income is as low as that, either.

    @Jay: If you meant the Russian Federation by “Muscovya”, then yes, US$5.5K is not far off.

    Of course, when it comes to economic metrics, there are a lot of differences between avg. vs. median, individual vs. household, urban vs. metropolitan, nominal dollars vs. Purchasing Power Parity.

  44. 44.

    NutmegAgain

    May 30, 2023 at 10:34 pm

    @Old School: Truly–what a snorgle puppy!

  45. 45.

    Carlo Graziani

    May 30, 2023 at 10:37 pm

    @Jay: The math doesn’t work that way.

    If Moscow (a city of 12M people) has, say, 1000 billionaire oligarchs (wild overestimate for the sake of argument) then those oligarchs need a mean income approximately 1200 times that of the mean ordinary person income to even begin moving the needle. If the average Muscovite is making $40k/year, those 1000 oligarchs need to average $60M/year to make the average come out to ($40k × 12M + $60,000k × 1000) / (12M + 1000) = $45k.

    I’m pretty sure that the mean income of the richest 1000 people in Moscow is less than $60M per annum.

  46. 46.

    Carlo Graziani

    May 30, 2023 at 11:10 pm

    @YY_Sima Qian:

    @Roger Moore: True, but I would have thought they would want to work on establishing reactionary authoritarianism to the US, rather than escaping to the Putinist paradise. Of course, some of these grifters are not interested in work of any kind.

    I think your (entirely justified) point should really be cast as “why would any Russian citizen feel an ideological commitment to Putinism.” As others point out already, there is enough of a financial incentive to attract handfuls of foreign talent. But really, why would any Russian be patriotic today?

    It’s a serious question, and it applies across Rusdian society, even to the nationalist loons. Patriotism is more than fandom, it has a component of duty, obligation, self-sacrifice. In the Soviet Union there were once millions of believing patriots, who felt that there was an important set of Marxist-Leninist ideals that deserved their personal commitment.

    Not so much today. Putinism is a fish that rots from the head. Everyone in any position of power directly experiences the universal kleptocracy that is Russian governance and economic management, not least through the example of Putin himself, now reckoned one of the wealthiest individual on the planet. From government security and defense officials, to other state bureaucratic positions, to state-sponsored industry, to private commercial banking, etc., a job conferring any power is understood as a monetization opportunity. Illegal rents are everywhere, and recognized as part of the background of life everywhere.

    And so, why shouldn’t a base commander sell his base construction materials on the open market? Why shouldn’t an FSB official sell state secrets to the CIA? Why should a telecoms official not ease NSA access to national communications networks in exchange for a handsome compensation package? They’re just doing what everyone all the way up the hierarchy to the very top does: treating their power and access as a monetizable asset. Putin himself is the poster child for such kleptocratic practice. How could he expect less of his underlings?

    The contrast with Iran (say) is quite striking. Iran is a deeply corrupt society, but the despicable ideology of the Mullahs still commands sufficient societal support to permit the Iranian government to hire dedicated, patriotic officials, scientists, engineers, spies, cops, etc. to make that country a challenging regional adversary. Russia has nothing like that sort ideology to which personal commitment can be fastened.

    Russian corruption deserves a different term, to distinguish it from “ordinary” national cultures of corrupt practice. It’s kleptocracy at work here, not mere corruption. And that kleptocracy has robbed the Russian state of the resource of patriotism that even minor despotisms usually can count on. That even the Soviet Union had in abundance, by comparison.

  47. 47.

    Carlo Graziani

    May 30, 2023 at 11:19 pm

    By the way, Adam, I really like the way you’ve been unrolling Twitter threads here for us, so that we can digest the argument here rather than head off to Twitter. I assume that doing so adds to your work in creating these summaries, but the result is a greatly improved experience for us. So thanks for doing that.

  48. 48.

    NutmegAgain

    May 30, 2023 at 11:22 pm

    @PJ:   “It was an aesthetic choice as much as anything else. The West has become so terribly ugly.” So says mole and Kim Philby character Bill Hadon in Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy*, to protagonist/hero/George Smiley. * Novel by John le Carre, most recent film version came out in 2011. It’s a terrific movie, and recommended if you missed it. All this Soviet era seems somehow relevant now.

  49. 49.

    Andrya

    May 30, 2023 at 11:30 pm

    @Carlo Graziani:  Ooooh, math!!!  Fun, fun, fun! I’m not convinced the median income in Moscow is as low as $5000 – $6000 a year, but I don’t think the math excludes it if we put a bit more granularity into our model.  My model is based on San Francisco, which has a similar issue with inequality (although almost no one in SF except live-in household help has an income as low as $6000 per year).

    My model divides the data into 6 classes:

    Multi-billionaires:  they number 500, yearly income (each) is $16,000,000, total income for class is 8 trillion dollars.

    Billionaires:  they number 5000, yearly income (each) is $400,000, total income for class is 2 trillion dollars.

    Millionaires:  they number 20,000, yearly income (each) is 200,000, total income for class is 4 trillion dollars.

    Professionals:  they number 800,000 (oligarchs need a lot of professionals to pamper them), yearly income (each) is $80,000, total income of class is 64 trillion dollars.

    Non-professional middle class:  they number 2,000,000, yearly income (each) is $40,000, total income of class is 80 trillion dollars,

    Serfs:  they number 9,174,500, yearly income (each) is $6000, total income for class is $55,047,000,000.

    Total number of residents:  12 million

    Total income:  $213,047,000,000

    Mean (average) income:  $17,754

    Median (midpoint) income:  $6000

    Again, I don’t think the median is as low as $6000, but I don’t think the math excludes it.

    It also occurs to me that the phrase “resident of Moscow” might be a bit ambiguous.  San Francisco has a lot of empty extremely ritzy houses that the owners only visit occasionally.  (This contributes to the housing shortage.)

  50. 50.

    Andrya

    May 30, 2023 at 11:40 pm

    @Andrya:   I should have mentioned that I do think $40k mean is too high for a $6k median, but I do think a mean just under $20k (which my sources gave) is plausible.

    And here’s another problem:  can we believe any economic data coming out of russia?  At all?

  51. 51.

    Carlo Graziani

    May 30, 2023 at 11:54 pm

    @Andrya: Very cool. I’m rather interested in income distribution, but I don’t really know where to find the data to fit such things. I’ve assumed that income distributions tend to follow power-laws, since many human behavioral distributions do.

    Is your distribution a dN/dI (N = number of people, I = income) power-law, with each class a bin in I, and class incomes reckoned as Integral_dIOverClassBin(I×dN/dI) / Integral_dIOverClassBin(dN/dI)? If so, what is the power-law index that describes the SF income distribution? I can’t quite make it out from your bins, which have very inhomogeneous widths, even in logarithm space. Or is power-law a bad model here?

    (Apologies for notational quirks, I doubt that LaTeX would clarify issues in WordPress, and there’s no Markdown support here).

    (And sorry also to those of you to whom this looks like gibberish for the descent into nerdery, but this stuff is Carlo-bait…)

  52. 52.

    Roberto el oso

    May 31, 2023 at 12:08 am

    @NutmegAgain: I just watched a 6-episode series, “A Spy Among Friends” about the Cambridge 5 (Guy Pearce plays Kim Philby). Quite good, with one of the subplots being how Philby also pulled the wool over the eyes of James Jesus Angleton, first head of the CIA.

    There’s another one, which I can’t remember the name of, but which stars Alan Bates as Guy Burgess, and revolves around an Australian journalist who went to interview him when he was living in Moscow, where he was very miserable, although Graham Greene regularly sent him care packages from Fortnum & Mason’s

    During the Cold War the West got folks like Rudolf Nureyev, Natalia Makarova, and Joseph Brodsky … seems like a much better deal than the likes of Edward Snowden and Tara Reade.

  53. 53.

    Sebastian

    May 31, 2023 at 12:38 am

    @NutmegAgain:

    Seconded. Superb movie.

  54. 54.

    YY_Sima Qian

    May 31, 2023 at 12:41 am

    @Carlo Graziani: Yes, your recasting is the more interesting & relevant one.

    I don’t think the vast majority of Russians working for the Putin regime (now or 10 years ago) are committed Putinists, just like the vast majority of people working for the Shia Islamist regime in Iran are not committed Shia Islamists, the vast majority of CCP members are not committed Communists or even committed followers of Xi Thought, most people who worked for the Nazi government were not committed Nazis, & most people worked for the Italian Fascist regime were not committed Fascists. Most people simply go w/ the flow to survive, & many are cynical opportunists. At best, these regimes are seen as the most promising vehicle for advancing national development, redressing perceived historical wrongs, achieving pan-nationalist goals, & derive their legitimacies as such. This is when they could co-op patriots (who are not the same as nationalists) & the more mainstream elements into their causes, or at least gain their acquiescence. When their ability to achieve such pan-nationalist & developmental objectives come into question, their legitimacies start to wane, & people either peel off, or give in to more cynical/opportunist motives to maximize selfish gains. Even then only a small minority would emerge as committed opponents.

    In the aughts, one could argue that Putin was righting the ship that had been left adrift by Yeltsin, & was indeed reestablishing Russia as a power to be reckoned w/. By the teens the Putinist program of breeding utmost cynicism has produced a country of cynics, from the oligarchs to the average man on the street, held together only by the revanchist dream of reviving the Russian Empire to its largest extent, bolstered by the seemingly cheap victories over Georgia in ’08 & Ukraine in ’14. There hasn’t even been much pretense at developmentalism. Now, the disastrous invasion of Ukraine has punctured the nationalist balloon for most.

    For Iran, as long as the Shia Islamist regime could convince most Iranians that it is safeguarding & advancing their interests as Shia & as Persians, in their ancient rivalry against Sunny Arabs & the more recent Western imperialist threats, it could maintain substantial support. However, the combination of evermore intense oppression & poor economic management has caused widespread disillusionment, as evidenced by the recent protest movement.

    In China, Xi has been implementing an intensifying program of re-instilling ideology into the CCP ranks, both Marxist Thought (as analytical frameworks, not as policy prescriptions) & his brand of Xi Thought (which does provide a philosophical framework for his policy programs). The purpose of the program is likely to root out both the closet liberals & the cynical opportunists. Party members are made to study Xi Thought periodically, & officials high & low have to pay homage to Xi & Xi Thought in every document & speech. There are many trappings of a personality cult present, but there is no actual personality cult, because few people hold Xi in awe in the way people used to revere Mao, not even those who are supportive of Xi’s domestic programs & foreign policy. As long as Xi & the CCP regime are perceived to be still delivering in improving personal welfare, restring environment, containing corruption, & achieving pan-patriotic/nationalist goals of technological advancement & international prominence/preeminence, most people will go w/ the flow.

  55. 55.

    YY_Sima Qian

    May 31, 2023 at 12:45 am

    @NutmegAgain: Great movie!

    @Roberto el oso: Great series! The parts depicting Philby in Moscow were quite entertaining.

  56. 56.

    Andrya

    May 31, 2023 at 1:19 am

    @Carlo Graziani:   Well,  this is Andrya-bait too, but you are giving me way too much credit.  As I mentioned above, I do not have a background in economics (not even one college class)  although I do read for-the-layman stuff by Paul Krugman and Thomas Piketty.  No power laws, no calculus, sorry!  (Plus, I had to finish the post in 10-15 minutes in time for an emergency cat food run.)

    My procedure was much simpler:  I took my personal/anecdotal knowledge of income distribution in SF, adjusted it to make it more “Moscow-like” as best I understand Moscow, and then assumed (unrealistically) that all the members of each class had the same income.

    I should have mentioned that my assumption that a live-in servant in SF might make as little as $6000 per year would be a gross minimum wage law violation.  Unfortunately, in the SF Bay Area, that does not mean it wouldn’t happen.  25 years ago, my sister and I had a favorite Indian restaurant in Berkeley (delicious food) that we abandoned due to an unfortunate experience involving a waiter killing a cockroach with his shoe.  Several years later, we were glad we had abandoned the restaurant, as it turned out the restaurant was literally using slave labor who were not paid at all.

  57. 57.

    prostratedragon

    May 31, 2023 at 1:22 am

    @Roberto el oso:  I just watched that this weekend too. Highly recommended; will watch again at some point.

  58. 58.

    Traveller

    May 31, 2023 at 2:19 am

    @Sebastian: and Nutmeg:

    Truly a suburb movie and one that can survive still being great even after repeated viewings…however, as to the comment by the character Bill Hadon

    “It was an aesthetic choice as much as anything else. The West has become so terribly ugly.”

    I think it largely true…in the early 1980’s London was all creaking floorboards and moldy walls, Paris was a rundown wreck and New York City was full of scurrying rats, graffiti and blowing street trash…Hong Kong was always Hong Kong but not gleaming like the last time I was there.

    Looking at Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy, it also was a product of its time…there was a wonderful book published in 2005 titled, The World was Going Our Way, (The KGB and the Battle for the Third World), and for a time…the world really was a  toss up and Russia was very close to coming out on top.

    So Bill Hadon was not far from being right…now of course I have to argue how…vastly better almost everything in the world is now, at least in a practical sense. My cars will start every morning, my tires will last longer than 12,000 and run without the sometimes frequent flat tires.

    Medicine? What can any of us say? It is all miraculous…they are doing things that simply are not possible…or weren’t a scant 20 years ago.

    Yes there are real problems…Real! And Now, all of which was not to say Bill Hadon was not correct in his perception and depression then.

    It is all exciting. Best Wishes, Traveller

  59. 59.

    NutmegAgain

    May 31, 2023 at 10:41 am

    @Roberto el oso: Next day reply …  Thanks, I will look for this series~

  60. 60.

    Chris Johnson

    May 31, 2023 at 10:46 am

    @Jay: Rog is a tragedy. Talk about ‘the thin ice’. Out of his depth and out of his mind… and he’s going to be losing another soldier Daddy who let him down, when he loses Putin.

    I think he wanted to be good, but he is too broken. Makes for some good art and a lousy role model.

    He’s still the Rog who said, on the Dark Side classic albums DVD, that being a leftie and getting rich changes things for this reason: when you have a bunch of money in the bank it WILL BE invested. So you either take a hand in that, or it is done for you. That was a good insight.

    It’s a shame about Rog.

  61. 61.

    StringOnAStick

    May 31, 2023 at 10:59 am

    @Traveller: Thanks so much for this post; very thought provoking!

Comments are closed.

Primary Sidebar

VA Purple House Delegates

Donate

Political Action

Postcard Writing Information

Recent Comments

  • geg6 on Monday Evening Open Thread: Tragedy Tomorrow — Comedy Tonight! (Oct 2, 2023 @ 6:28pm)
  • hotshoe on I Wondered (Open Thread) (Oct 2, 2023 @ 6:27pm)
  • WaterGirl on I Wondered (Open Thread) (Oct 2, 2023 @ 6:26pm)
  • Anyway on I Wondered (Open Thread) (Oct 2, 2023 @ 6:26pm)
  • SiubhanDuinne on Monday Evening Open Thread: Tragedy Tomorrow — Comedy Tonight! (Oct 2, 2023 @ 6:26pm)

🎈Keep Balloon Juice Ad Free

Become a Balloon Juice Patreon
Donate with Venmo, Zelle or PayPal

Balloon Juice Posts

View by Topic
View by Author
View by Month & Year
View by Past Author

Featuring

Medium Cool
Artists in Our Midst
Authors in Our Midst
We All Need A Little Kindness
What Has Biden Done for You Lately?

Balloon Juice Meetups!

All Meetups
Talk of Meetups – Meetup Planning

Fundraising 2023-24

Wis*Dems Supreme Court + SD-8

Calling All Jackals

Site Feedback
Nominate a Rotating Tag
Submit Photos to On the Road
Balloon Juice Mailing List Signup
Balloon Juice Anniversary (All Links)
Balloon Juice Anniversary (All Posts)

Twitter / Spoutible

Balloon Juice (Spoutible)
WaterGirl (Spoutible)
TaMara (Spoutible)
John Cole
DougJ (aka NYT Pitchbot)
Betty Cracker
Tom Levenson
TaMara
David Anderson
Major Major Major Major
ActualCitizensUnited

Join the Fight!

Join the Fight Signup Form
All Join the Fight Posts

Balloon Juice for Ukraine

Donate

Cole & Friends Learn Español

Introductory Post
Cole & Friends Learn Español

Site Footer

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

  • Facebook
  • RSS
  • Twitter
  • YouTube
  • Comment Policy
  • Our Authors
  • Blogroll
  • Our Artists
  • Privacy Policy

Copyright © 2023 Dev Balloon Juice · All Rights Reserved · Powered by BizBudding Inc

Share this ArticleLike this article? Email it to a friend!

Email sent!