Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Nothing worth doing is easy.

Shallow, uninformed, and lacking identity

“That’s what the insurrection act is for!”

Jack Smith: “Why did you start campaigning in the middle of my investigation?!”

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

The words do not have to be perfect.

It’s easy to sit in safety and prescribe what other people should be doing.

“woke” is the new caravan.

If senate republicans had any shame, they’d die of it.

… among the most cringeworthy communications in the history of the alphabet!

You come for women, you’re gonna get your ass kicked.

We are builders in a constant struggle with destroyers. let’s win this.

Bark louder, little dog.

“I never thought they’d lock HIM up,” sobbed a distraught member of the Lock Her Up Party.

When someone says they “love freedom”, rest assured they don’t mean yours.

Motto for the House: Flip 5 and lose none.

The worst democrat is better than the best republican.

Fuck these fucking interesting times.

Make the republican party small enough to drown in a bathtub.

This isn’t Democrats spending madly. This is government catching up.

As long as McCarthy is Speaker, the House will never be in order.

When I decide to be condescending, you won’t have to dream up a fantasy about it.

In short, I come down firmly on all sides of the issue.

Republicans are radicals, not conservatives.

You are here: Home / Politics / Religion / Religious Nuts / Dead, But Not Soon Enough

Dead, But Not Soon Enough

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Pat Robertson is dead, decades too late for it to be of any good, but at least we can still rejoice that the earth is a little bit better today than it was yesterday:

Pat Robertson, a Baptist minister with a passion for politics who marshaled Christian conservatives into a powerful constituency that helped Republicans capture both houses of Congress in 1994, died on Thursday at his home in Virginia Beach, Va. He was 93.

His death was announced by the Christian Broadcasting Network, which Mr. Robertson founded in 1960.

Mr. Robertson built an entrepreneurial empire based on his Christian faith, encompassing a university, a law school, a cable channel with broad reach, and more. A product of a family with politics in its veins, he also waged a serious though unsuccessful campaign for the 1988 Republican presidential nomination, resigning as a Baptist minister as he began the run in the face of criticism about mixing church and state.

The loss did not dampen his political fervor; he went on to found the Christian Coalition, which stoked the conservative faith-based political resurgence of the 1990s and beyond.

It’s hard to really calculate just how much damage he and his movement have done to this nation, but Robertson is up there with a handful of non-elected individuals such as Art Laffer, Grover Norquist, Rush Limbaugh, the Koch brothers, and Leonard Leo, to name a few, whose actions have dramatically altered this nation for the worse, to the point of almost no recovery. I don’t believe in heaven and hell, but in the event I am wrong, I hope he spends eternity on his knees in broken glass wearing a spiked ball gag while being brutally pegged sans lube with a strap on worn by Rush Limbaugh, himself a scumbag who won’t even have the decency to give a proper reach around. Fuck him and the rest of the freaks like him.

As always, if you can’t say anything nice, put it in the comments so I can enjoy them.

Reader Interactions

179Comments

  1. 1.

    ALurkSupreme

    Don’t disagree with any of that, except the “point of almost no recovery” part.

    I dunno, maybe the old fucker’s death just has me feeling optimistic today.

  2. 2.

    ChuckInAustin

    I was excited for a moment that Grover Norquist was dead. Alas, he seems to be still with us.

  6. 6.

    ...now I try to be amused

    Robertson may or may not be in Hell, but he was Hell for the rest of us in the Sartrean sense. So now the world is a little less hellish.

  7. 7.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    Ding-dong, the witch is dead! Which old witch? The wicked witch
    Ding-dong, the wicked witch is dead

    He’s gone where the goblins go
    Below, below, below, yo ho ho

  11. 11.

    japa21

    Another person who claimed to be Christian without having any real understanding of Christ.

  12. 12.

    AM in NC

    Good riddance to bad rubbish Christofascist dick cancers like Pat Robertson. May his theology concerning post-life be 100% true. He deserves it.

  13. 13.

    gene108

    but Robertson is up there with a handful of non-elected individuals such as Art Laffer, Grover Norquist, Rush Limbaugh, the Koch brothers, and Leonard Leo, to name a few, whose actions have dramatically altered this nation for the worse, to the point of almost no recovery.

    Recovery is possible. It’ll be a multi-generation long slog, with some ups and what feels like more downs.

    Edit: It’s taken us 40 to 50 years of conservatives consistently pushing their agenda to get us here.

  16. 16.

    gene108

    @Grumpy Old Railroader:

    I’m going with the South Park theory that only Mormons go to heaven, while everyone else parties in hell, except some disgruntled devout Christians who are shocked they didn’t get into heaven.

  17. 17.

    Hildebrand

    @japa21: Bingo.  Yet another wretched knave who lived only to inflict pain on those he hated.  Jesus would have been appalled at his grotesque rejection of love and mercy.

  21. 21.

    Brachiator

    His death was announced by by the Christian Broadcasting Network, which Mr. Robertson founded in 1960 Satan, who welcomed Robertson into the Eighth Circle along with other fraudsters.

    A little more honest.

  23. 23.

    Baud

    @Burnspbesq:

    Interestingly, Mike Pence, who I consider the most religious of the bunch, hasn’t tweeted about it yet.

    Haven’t had a chance to check anyone else.

  24. 24.

    Baud

    Pat Robertson touched so many lives and changed so many hearts. He stood for America — and more importantly, for truth and faith. He did the Lord’s work and we will always remember his witness.
    — Nikki Haley (@NikkiHaley) June 8, 2023

  25. 25.

    Baud

    I am saddened to hear of Pat Robertson’s passing. His powerful ministry and heart for the Lord was a blessing to me and countless others. May God grace the Robertson family with His comfort as they go through this difficult time.— Tim Scott (@SenatorTimScott) June 8, 2023

  30. 30.

    Chris

    Fun fact, as I recall from the time it was airing, Reverend Don Butler from The West Wing (Arnie Vinick’s main opponent for the Republican nomination in the last season) was based on Pat Robertson.

    It annoyed me even at the time that what little you see paints him as an honest man of deep and sincere convictions that just happen to be wrong, as opposed to the utter charlatan and con artist that Robertson always was IRL.  And that they made the character a kid from the trailer park who grew up poor in Appalachia instead of a senator’s son, as if there wasn’t enough of a phenomenon of rural gentry posing as hardworking proletarians.  And that they gave him the awesomeness that came from being played by Don S. Davis (General Hammond from Stargate SG-1).

    But then again, Arnie Vinick was a ludicrously complimentary version of John McCain, too.

  32. 32.

    Butch

    Moms Maybley, often attributed to Bette Davis, on the death of her ex-husband:  “I was always taught never to say anything about the dead unless it’s good. He’s dead. Good.”

  33. 33.

    Chris

    @gene108:

    I’m going with the South Park theory that only Mormons go to heaven, while everyone else parties in hell, except some disgruntled devout Christians who are shocked they didn’t get into heaven.

    Saint Peter: “Welcome to heaven!”
    Recently Dead Guy: “Thank you!  I have to ask, what is that giant compound over there with no windows or doors or cameras or rooftops or balconies or anything that could let anybody see in or out?”
    Saint Peter: “Oh, that’s just the Mormons.  They think they’re the only ones here.”

    (Replace “Mormons” with “Baptists,” “Catholics,” or all kinds of other religious groups as needed).

  34. 34.

    Mustang Bobby

    I’m reminded of the story about Harry Cohn, the much-hated Hollywood producer.  When he took his dirt nap, some people were very surprised to see how many people showed up at his funeral.  Red Skelton replied, “That’s show business: give the people what they want, they’ll show up.”

  36. 36.

    Chris

    @Baud:

    He stood for America — and more importantly, for truth and faith.

    The religious right always struck me as being the successor entity to the old segregationist Southern Democratic block.  Something Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell both embodied in being rooted in that establishment right from the start.  Not that the entire country doesn’t have a racism problem (and certainly all of its conservatives), but there’s something about the religious right that just screams Confederacy!!! (or Slave States or Jim Crow South or whatever), in a way that racist libertarian businessmen from out west, or racist big city cops from up north, don’t necessarily.

    So he certainly embodied a certain part of America.  A very distinctive part.

  37. 37.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

     Pat Robertson was 93

    proving, yet again, only the good die young

  38. 38.

    Baud

    I missed Pence’s tweet.

     

    Pat Robertson’s bold faith was an inspiration to millions and we mark his passing with a sense of personal loss. Through his writings, broadcasts and advocacy, Pat touched countless lives with the gospel of Jesus Christ including mine. I have long been inspired by his stand for his stand for America and our traditional values. Pat Robertson will be deeply missed. Karen and I send our deepest sympathies and prayers to Gordon, the entire Robertson family and all who cherished this good and godly man. America is poorer but Heaven is richer with the passing of this faithful servant. God bless Pat Robertson
    — Mike Pence (@Mike_Pence) June 8, 2023

  39. 39.

    cope

    And one more name to cross off the list I keep in my head of people whom I hope to outlive.

  41. 41.

    oldster

    Jimmy Carter strikes again, in his campaign to kill off the enemies of America before he passes.

  42. 42.

    scav

    So, his god apparently finally wanted Robertson dead.  Well, the fact that his god didn’t want the pleasure of his company until now is evidence of god’s good taste: the fact that he let Robertson live here so long is absolute proof positive that god is neither just nor beneficent to humanity in general

  43. 43.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Baud: I’d love to ask Nikki Haley for examples of Pat’s doing the Lord’s work, because I sure can’t think of any.

    ETA: Or standing for truth or faith, for that matter.

  44. 44.

    RaflW

    “Mr. Robertson built an entrepreneurial empire based on exploiting his Christian customers.” Fixed that sentence for the NYT.

  45. 45.

    MomSense

    I think he made a hell on earth for a lot of people while he was alive. Sadly I wish there were some kind of eternal punishment for his commission of cruelty, but I just don’t believe in hell or heaven.  I hope we can damn his memory and legacy to derision and that history will recognize him for the monster he was.

  46. 46.

    japa21

    @lowtechcyclist: He convinced an awful lot of people that money was not all that important and they should give to him instead of keeping it for themselves.  Thus he saved many people from the sin of greed.

  50. 50.

    laura

    Of all the God-bothering misogynistic, whithered scrotus faced hate filled miserable fame whoring low life simpering grift running international death peddling antisemitic shite-bag in an ill fitting boy’s suit that far too many Americans thought was in some way decent that this country has horked up like so much ambigris, he may be one of the absolute worst of the bunch. If there is a hell, I hope he’s enjoying a red hot poker up his stupid ass.

  53. 53.

    TheOtherHank

    I think I’m remembering this correctly. When he ran for president he announced that if the didn’t raise X (some large number) dollars by a certain date that the Lord was going to “call him home”. I was very excited to hear that he was going to die. But then some rich fucker came up with amount needed to prevent God from offing ol’ Pat. Such a disappointment.

  55. 55.

    trollhattan

    Guess who posted this obviously ghost-written tribute [sniff]?

    Today the World lost an incredible and powerful Voice for Faith and Freedom. Pat Robertson showed us that Belief in God produces the results that can change the course of History. Pat’s legacy lives on in the many endeavors and lies that he touched. He will be greatly missed. Our hearts and prayers are with his Family!

    https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1666828211970342914?cxt=HHwWhIC8wa7b4aEuAAAA
    TBF he nailed the Random capitalizations and inappropriate closing exclamation point.

  56. 56.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Baud: What is the thought process of people like Nikki Haley? Is it,

    If I suck up to the white nationalists enough they won’t notice that I am not among the groups they consider white?

  61. 61.

    schrodingers_cat

    Can someone explain to me like I am five, who can call themselves a reverend? Most of my exposure to Christians has been to Catholics so American Protestants are a never ending source of mystery to me.

  66. 66.

    C Stars

    I remember hearing Pat Robertson on the radio as a kid (we didn’t have a TV; I’m not that old, it’s just that my parents were hippies) talking about AIDS. It was the moment I realized the immensity and mendacity of the evil that was out there in the world pretending to speak for God.

  68. 68.

    scav

    @Jay: Don’t forget that anyone can found a church as well and call it Protestant.  Tax status might take a little more paperwork, but not much I’d guess.

  69. 69.

    C Stars

    @schrodingers_cat: I go to a UCC but am relatively new to the whole organized religion thing. I think it’s a person who has received their MDiv and done their hours as an intern (that’s not the right word) and then gets a position as a Minister in a church or hospital.

  72. 72.

    Jeffro

    @laura: I’ve read this at least ten times now, using five different voices in my head, and it’s just spectacular every time – thank you!

    (so far the George Carlin voice is my favorite, but John Oliver and Trevor Noah are hot on his heels. =)

  73. 73.

    laura

    @brantl: i failed to point out that the filth that was pat robertson was also a bitter homophobe and proud racist. I regret the oversight.

  74. 74.

    Jackie

    Mark Meadows goose may be cooked ( this is kinda death related😉)

    “Former president Donald Trump’s chief of staff, Mark Meadows, removed more than a thousand pages of classified documents from the White House late at night on the final evening of Trump’s presidency,” Murray Waas reports.”

    “A former top aide to Meadows has told investigators that they witnessed Meadows removing the records.”

    “Meadows removed the records from the White House on the orders of Donald Trump, and occurred despite advice from White House attorneys that making public the records would circumvent the long established and official procedures in place for declassifying them.”

  75. 75.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @schrodingers_cat: Anyone who is ordained clergy.  The requirements for ordination vary widely.  Mainline Protestants usually require a graduate degree in theology from an accredited university plus significant practical training.  Others require … less.

  77. 77.

    laura

    I’m heading to Midtown to the fancy dessert and cakery to get a slice of champagne cake to celebrate this Pride Month death of that guy.

  79. 79.

    OverTwistWillie

    Loomis at LGM has a scathing eulogy with more in depth biographical details.

    Like Yale Law School.

  82. 82.

    Jackie

    @Jackie: From the linked article is this interesting snippet:

    “Among the people with first-hand knowledge that Meadows removed the records from the White House is Cassidy Hutchinson, the former aide to Meadows who gave riveting and meticulously detailed testimony to the House Jan. 6th committee about her knowledge of events of that day, based on her extraordinary access and proximity to Trump and Meadows.”

    ”Hutchinson personally witnessed Meadows remove the papers from the White House and place them in the trunk of her car to take home.”

    “Hutchinson’s description of Meadows removal of the classified records is included in previously undisclosed details from an executive session interview she provided the House Jan. 6thcommittee—and reported here for the first time.”

    “The removal by Meadows of classified records from the White House appears to be separate from Trump’s removal from the White House of other classified documents to Mar-a-Largo, a matter long under investigation by special counsel Jack Smith and a federal grand jury.”

    https://murraywaas.substack.com/p/exclusive-mark-meadows-removed-classified

  83. 83.

    The Moar You Know

    Let us not forget he’s directly responsible for the deaths of thousands with his blood diamond trade side hustle.

    In Hell, may he always be hungry and have only diamonds to eat.

  84. 84.

    The Moar You Know

    Others require … less.

    @Omnes Omnibus: I’m ordained, which we all can agree is something that no one in their right mind would allow, but when all that’s required is a few keystrokes and a credit card with ten bucks of headroom on it, that’s what happens.

  85. 85.

    billcoop4

    Anyone who is ordained clergy.  The requirements for ordination vary widely.  Mainline Protestants usually require a graduate degree in theology from an accredited university plus significant practical training.  Others require … less.

    And “Reverend” is not a proper form of address. It’s an honorific, like “the Honorable” before an elected official’s name. So the Reverend Ms. Jennifer Smith should be referred to as Ms. Smith, and if she were to have a Doctorate, the Rev. Dr. Jennifer Smith would be referred to as Dr. Smith.

     

    Of course, I speak from an Anglican pedantic position.

     

    BC

  88. 88.

    Splitting Image

    @Baud:

    Pat Robertson’s bold faith was an inspiration to millions and we mark his passing with a sense of personal loss. Through his writings, broadcasts and advocacy, Pat touched countless lives with the gospel of Jesus Christ including mine. I have long been inspired by his stand for his stand for America and our traditional values. Pat Robertson will be deeply missed. Karen and I send our deepest sympathies and prayers to Gordon, the entire Robertson family and all who cherished this good and godly man. America is poorer but Heaven is richer with the passing of this faithful servant. God bless Pat Robertson
    — Mike Pence (@Mike_Pence) June 8, 2023

    This is greatly improved if it is read in Herbert Lom’s voice as he eulogizes Inspector Clouseau.

  89. 89.

    schrodingers_cat

    I am allergic to all these Reverends and mahants and assorted self proclaimed religious men  (and they are mostly men). Believing that they are right is their religion which often involves subjugating women and other “lesser” (according to them) beings.

  90. 90.

    jonas

    @Chris: The religious right was really galvanized as a political movement in response to the IRS revoking the tax-exempt status of segregated academies and colleges throughout the South (iirc) in the early 70s. So yeah, the racism was there from the beginning.

  91. 91.

    Taken4Granite

    @scav: There is a quote attributed to L. Ron Hubbard to the effect that the best way to make a million dollars in this country is to found your own religion. Hubbard proceeded to do exactly that (Scientology).

  92. 92.

    JerseyBeard

    De-lurking just to chef-kiss this post.

    I grew up with two gay dads in the ‘80’s in NYC. I saw the AIDS crisis up close as a kid. Fuck Pat Robertson. Sideways. With a rusty pitchfork.

  93. 93.

    gvg

    @Chris: Christianity is not supposed to be reserved just for America. Saying that  proves the speaker didn’t understand that very important principle and is not to be trusted.

  95. 95.

    Baud

    Interestingly, Virginia’s governor Glenn Youngkin has not tweeted about Pat Robertson.

  96. 96.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Ronald Reagan’s profoundly anti-environmental Secretary of the Interior, James Watt, has died. (Apparently he died a couple weeks ago, but the death was only announced this afternoon.)  I didn’t hate him the way I hated Pat Robertson, but let’s just say I’m not shedding any tears at the news.

  97. 97.

    Chyron HR

    Remember back in 2020 when Republicans were saying that old people should just go ahead and die for the good of the country?

  98. 98.

    Odie Hugh Manatee

    Good riddance to that asshole. If there’s a Hell then he’s there assisting Satan. The world is a bit better place now that he’s rotting away.

    Hopefully they weigh the corpse down enough so the ground doesn’t spit him back up.

  100. 100.

    Boris Rasputin (the evil twin)

    @JaySinWA: Robin Williams once wondered how Pat and Falwell were going to react to finding out that God looks like Isaac Hayes, and he’s really pissed at both of them.

    Thanks, Robin. There’s very little chance you’ll meet either of those clowns where you are. God opened the trap door to Hades after he chewed them out.

  101. 101.

    jonas

    @Jackie:”Hutchinson personally witnessed Meadows remove the papers from the White House and place them in the trunk of her car to take home.”

    Could be worse. He could have put them on a private server. I hear that deserves, at the very least, life imprisonment or something.*

    *Snark aside, it’s important to note that Hillary didn’t have any actual classified documents stored on her email server — there were emails and email threads that contained references to things or information that were classified at one level or another (or later up-classified). 99% of people don’t realize this and it’s what takes what Trump (and apparently his toadies) did to a *whole* other level.

  102. 102.

    A Man for All Seaonings (formerly Geeno)

    I told my son that Pat Robertson was dead, and he didn’t know who he was. There that’s a good thing I can say.

  103. 103.

    Tony Jay

    @Splitting Image:

    I’ve tried it in the voice of Kermit the Frog, Brian Blessed and Zoolander.

    Oh, and it’s much improved by applying the rules of ‘Sausage, Mash & Peas”.

  104. 104.

    Chris

    @gvg:

    Well yeah, there’s that too.  The extent to which these people enmesh America and Christianity/God together is a whole thing.  From an American point of view, it’s unconstitutional.  From a Christian point of view, it’s idolatry.  It’s shitty civics and shitty religion all at once.

  105. 105.

    TriassicSands

    …but at least we can still rejoice that the earth is a little bit better today than it was yesterday:

    Yes, but Hell is so much worse. Yesterday, Hell was Hell. Today, all those people who were already suffering for eternity have to be around Pat Robertson. Talk about cruel and unusual punishment. Even some mass murderers deserve better than being forced to be around the likes of Robertson. Maybe Satan will make special arrangements for Pat and restrict his contacts to former Republicans only. Now, that I think of it, Satan probably has a special section reserved for phony God-worshippers.

  107. 107.

    Amir Khalid

    @Chris:

    The role I associate with Don S. Davis, even though he only played it twice, is that of US Navy Captain William Scully Sr on The X-Files, father of Dana Scully.

  110. 110.

    trollhattan

    Hi God, it’s us. Now that you’ve ushered Pat Robertson off to his just rewards, can we talk about Bill Gothard? You see, he’s alive at 88 and because I just finished watching “Shiny, Happy People” and learning of Gothard’s…teachings, I believe the world will be even a bit better if Gothard is summoned, too.

    Those poor girls deserve this.

    Thanks a heap, you’re having a great week and it’s only Thursday!

    My humble self.

  111. 111.

    Tony Jay

    Peas Robertson’s bold faith was an inspiration to mash and we mash his peas with a sausage of peas loss. Through his writings, broadcasts and advocacy, Peas touched countless lives with the gospel of Jesus Christ including mash. I have long been inspired by his sausage for his sausage for America and our traditional values. Peas Robertson will be deeply mashed. Karen and I sausage our deepest sausages and peas to Gordon, the entire Robertson family and all who cherished this good and godly mash. America is peas but Heaven is richer with the peas of this faithful sausage. God bless Peas Robertson
    — Mike Peas (@Mike_Peas) June 8, 2023

    There. That’s better.

  112. 112.

    WaterGirl

    @Jackie: “More than a thousand pages.”

    A ream of paper is 500 pages.  A thousand pages would more than fit in a single filing box you can buy from Staples.

    That’s a pretty specific number.  Makes me go “hmm”.

  115. 115.

    bbleh

    Apparently James Watt, one of Reagan’s appointed saboteurs, has followed Pat into the Great Beyond.

    No tears shed here either

    ETA: oops, missed it by a good 20 comments …

  116. 116.

    WaterGirl

    @trollhattan:

    Hi God, it’s us. Now that you’ve ushered Pat Robertson off to his just rewards, can we talk about Bill Gothard? You see, he’s alive at 88 and because I just finished watching “Shiny, Happy People” and learning of Gothard’s…teachings, I believe the world will be even a bit better if Gothard is summoned, too.

    Those poor girls deserve this.

    Thanks a heap, you’re having a great week and it’s only Thursday!

    My humble self.

    I just wanted to see that again.

  117. 117.

    scav

    @SiubhanDuinne: Damn, in a perfect world his last desperate breaths should have been spent gulping down the orange cloud so that the smell and taste of ashes would perfume his lungs not getting the oxygen they need.  Still, better in the rear view mirror. No thoughts, no prayers.

  118. 118.

    schrodingers_cat

    @WaterGirl: Agreed. Its kinda worked for her so far but I think she has hit the ceiling. She is running for VP I think. She thinks the nominee will pick her to counter  Kamala Harris on the Dem ticket.

  119. 119.

    Ruckus

    @Michael Bersin:

    That bit never gets old.

    Or used more appropriately.

    There is an seemingly endless supply of deranged grifters, lowlifes, asswipes, and even human beings who completely misunderstand what religion and/or life is supposed to be about, who make it their lot in life to screw over the rest of us because they are about the most fucking stupid, asshole, jackoffs alive. Their kind has been with us since the first human molecule existed and will be with us until time ceases to exist.

    I’ve known this since 1962 when Cardinal James McIntyre arrived one day at the all boys technical HS I was forced to attend for one year, in a chauffeur driven Rolls Royce limo, with enough gold, diamond and ruby rings to pay the then federal debt. A real sweetheart, oh wait, I meant asshole.

  120. 120.

    bbleh

    @Jackie: *IF* this is true, then I can see where Jack “Sure That’s His Real Name” Smith would have had some compelling points to make in any discussion of immunized testimony with Mr. Meadows.

  122. 122.

    Dan B

    @JerseyBeard:  Pat Robertson was a monster.  The institutions he founded spread his monstrous views.  AIDS was awful and he added to the horror.

  124. 124.

    dnfree

    @schrodingers_cat: It varies greatly by denomination.  In evangelical Christianity there may not even be an official denomination and individual people may just start their own church.  In the more established denominations there will be educational requirements and denominations may run their own schools of theology.  Candidates will be officially vested.

    To further confuse you, some denominations are top-driven and a bishop or similar official decides who will be the minister at the local church level.  This is how the Methodist church operates.  Other denominations are run from the congregation level upward, and congregations “call” (and fire) their own ministers.

    Some denominations have closer ties to other denominations than others.  We just recently heard of an Evangelical Lutheran minister (ELCA, the more liberal Lutherans) who was approved to be pastor of a United Church of Christ (which is one of the more liberal denominations, not to be confused with the Church of Christ, which is not at all liberal).

    All clear now?

    Then there are the Orthodox Churches, which are usually known by their ethnic names, like Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, etc.  They go back in some ways further than Catholicism in their practices.  And there are small groups like the Coptic Christians in Egypt.

  125. 125.

    Jeffro

    Did anyone else catch this piece: DeSantis campaign uses fake AI images of trump hugging Fauci in new web ad?

    And of course it’s perfectly ok w/ ol’ Ron (just like shipping TX immigrants to CA on FL-paid planes) because, well, Ron and his team are psychos:

    You might want to take note of the following date: June 5, 2023. Because we might one day regard that as the date on which our politics very quietly crossed the Rubicon on AI-generated images.

    Few people noticed until Thursday, but Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis’s campaign that day released a deceptive web video featuring fake images of Donald Trump hugging former White House coronavirus adviser Anthony Fauci.

    While others have used artificial intelligence in their political messages before, this appears to be the first example of a major presidential campaign using it in such an obviously misleading fashion. And the DeSantis campaign is anything but apologetic about it.

    The video, which the “DeSantis War Room” shared on Twitter, features six images of Trump and Fauci in the same frame. Three of them depict Trump hugging Fauci and appear to be AI-generated. One of those three features language on the White House sign behind the men that is gibberish — a feature of many AI-generated images. And if you look closely at another of the three, you’ll notice that Fauci doesn’t appear overly lifelike.

    trump is (obviously) dumb, vicious, and corrupt.  But DeSantis is as close to Greg Stilson (of “The Dead Zone”) as we have in today’s political arena.

    Oh and not that everyone doesn’t already know this, but AI-generated fakes (to include ‘deep fake’ videos) are going to blow up the 2023 and 2024 races (and beyond).  Fortunately, like the article above, much of it will be focused on intra-GOP infighting.  But still…

  126. 126.

    dnfree

    @C Stars: United Church of Christ is a very interesting denomination.  It was formed in the 1950s as a merger of four denominations that were trying to follow the teaching “that they shall all be one”.  It’s a congregationally-driven denomination.  Many but not all congregations are “open and affirming” to gay and transgender people, but each individual congregation decides.  One of their current mottos is “God is still speaking”, meaning the Bible isn’t the last word.

    Having attended two UCC churches, it’s interesting that we could still tell that one of them had come from the Congregational tradition and the other from the German Reform tradition.

  128. 128.

    Ruckus

    @laura:

    I believe that knowledge has been well known (and very obvious) for a rather long time. I’d bet close to 90 yrs.

  129. 129.

    TriassicSands

    @SiubhanDuinne: … I didn’t hate him the way I hated Pat Robertson…

    I understand your point of view, but I hated Watt even more than I hated Robertson. One historical fact is that joining Watt in his environmental crimes was Anne Gorsuch Burford. Probably the worst and most corrupt EPA director in history. Trump appointees tried, but really couldn’t surpass Gorsuch Burford for pure destructiveness.

    Does the middle name look familiar? Anne brought us her son, Neil, making her initial contributions to destroying the environment only the first chapter in a story that will now plague the US for decades more. When Neil Gorsuch was confirmed to be an associate justice, my expectation was that he had the potential to be the absolute worst justice, which is remarkable given the competition. In most respects, Gorsuch has lived down to my expectations, but Thomas and Alito have upped their games in response and now the three of them stand atop the dung pile of right wing justices, setting examples that truly define injustice.

    An interesting note on Watt. He once, as Interior Secretary, took a rafting trip down the Colorado River through the Grand Canyon. However, he never completed the trip, because he became bored and had a helicopter fly him out of the canyon, so he could return to D.C. and continue his assault on the environment.

  130. 130.

    dnfree

    @schrodingers_cat: A lot of ministers in mainline Protestant churches are women these days.  Mainline Protestant denominations include United Methodist, Presbyterian, United Church of Christ, Evangelical Lutheran, for instance.  Baptists are more in the evangelical category and women can’t be ministers because Paul said so, even though Jesus didn’t seem to care.

  131. 131.

    C Stars

    @dnfree: Yes, it is a little confusing to me whether it is more appropriate to identify as belonging to a UCC or a Congregational church. UCC as an organization is welcoming and inclusive with LGBTQIA people in leadership positions. I think that there can be Congregational churches that are not associated with UCC and are not welcoming (they are congregational in the sense of having a congregational administrative structure)

  132. 132.

    Jay

    @dnfree:

    Schrodinger’s Cat wanted the explanation to be simple.

    I have 9 ministry “degrees”. 8 different “churches”.

    Have yet to stand on a street corner and “preach”.

    (got so I could marry folks at various times)

    Also have a cert from the Province that say’s I can perform marriages and some other legal stuff.

  133. 133.

    AWOL

    @schrodingers_cat: You’d know better than I do, but do you think something in her background might influence her toward the need for a caste system? And that those who are poor and Black are exactly where they should be—untouchable, save for a bullet in the back or through a locked door, and virtuously trampled upon for the gods?

  135. 135.

    Anyway

    @Jay:

    I have 9 ministry “degrees”. 8 different “churches”.

    Have yet to stand on a street corner and “preach”.

    But are you a reverend? Do you have letterheads with Rev Jay? Do others refer to you as reverend etc etc.

  136. 136.

    jonas

    @dnfree: ​
     

    Baptists are more in the evangelical category and women can’t be ministers because Paul said so, even though Jesus didn’t seem to care.

    And it wasn’t even the real Paul who said that, but “Paul” in one of the pseudonymous epistles. Not that evangelicals give a shit, but still…

  139. 139.

    Anyway

    @schrodingers_cat:

    What is the thought process of people like Nikki Haley? Is it,

    If I suck up to the white nationalists enough they won’t notice that I am not among the groups they consider white?

    I think its grift, pure and simple. The opportunities are so great given the huge amts of moolah sloshing through the RW ecosystem. Plus she’s had her two terms as governor –she needs to do something. Running for president is something.

  140. 140.

    dnfree

    @C Stars: The Congregational denomination merged with the other denominations that formed the UCC, but individual congregations may have also retained the Congregational name, especially the oldest congregations.  But as far as I know they’re all UCC and the “Congregational” denomination no longer exists per se.

    The individual churches meet together in conventions and vote on policy but that policy can’t be forced on a congregation. It’s an interesting structure.

    The Methodist church has some individual congregations that want to leave Methodism and form their own denomination because those congregations want a more liberal policy on gays.  The denomination is saying they can leave IF they pay the denomination for their buildings, which many could not afford to do.  The Episcopal denomination is also struggling over the same issue.

  142. 142.

    Jay

    @Anyway:

    don’t have a church yet, (probably won’t, more money in PAC’s)

    yes, have been formally addressed as Reverend, Minister even Patriarch

  143. 143.

    scav

    Unlike preferred pronouns, the religiously inclined insist their personal preferred honorifics be universally recognized, used and respected.

  144. 144.

    columbusqueen

    As Klingons say, today is a good day to die, especially if you’re a piece of irredeemable conservative scum. Thanks, God!

  145. 145.

    dnfree

    @Jay:

    Yes, you may have multiple online certificates from multiple “denominations”, but you couldn’t use any of them to become minister of a Lutheran or Methodist or Baptist church. Most denominations have requirements beyond buying a certificate online.

    I also don’t think online certificates identify you as a “Protestant” minister—correct me if I’m wrong.

  146. 146.

    oldster

    @bbleh:

    Well, Jimmy Carter just killed off James Watt, one of the many truly horrible people from the Reagan administration, so Kissinger may just be further down the list.

    Watt and Robertson in one day! Thank you, Jimmy Carter!

  147. 147.

    Chris

    @Amir Khalid:

    He was good at playing officers.  (The actor did spend some time in the service).  Which, in America, translates reasonably well to “good at playing authority figures from the South.”

  149. 149.

    scav

    dnfree: Having a US drivers license doesn’t allow one to be street legal in the UK, and lawyers have to pass state bars as well as have a degree.  Doesn’t mean there are not licensed drivers and lawyers even without universal recognition of their credentials. Furthermore, the definition of Protestant is also a bit loosey goosey and there’s no regulating body with arbitrary you’re in you’re out authority. Despite there being islands of regularity and structure within “Protestantism”, the overarching description of the situation is at best parallel play with some elements playing Calvinball.

  150. 150.

    Geminid

    @Baud: Youngkin released a statement about Robertsons’s death that I found in the Blue Virginia blog: “…blah blah blah an inspiring Virginian blah blah blah…”

    Maybe foungkin’ Youngkin will wear a black fleece vest in mourning.

  151. 151.

    kalakal

     

    He did the Lord’s work and we will always remember his witness.
    — Nikki Haley (@NikkiHaley) June 8, 2023

    The Lord mentioned being Sauron.

    I like to think Satan has arranged some counselling for him about heresy and heretics. One on one sessions with Tomas de Torquemada who had strong views on the subject

  152. 152.

    rmjohnston

    I hope he spends eternity on his knees in broken glass wearing a spiked ball gag while being brutally pegged sans lube with a strap on

    A rusty iron spiked strap-on. Pat deserves the really special treatment.

  153. 153.

    JaneE

    To me Robertson was one of the preachers of Christian hate.  That is to say he was an anti-Christian opposed to following the most basic teaching of the early Christians.  Love one another.  Pat Robertson was incapable of that.

  154. 154.

    Jay

    @dnfree:

    You can buy them on line.

    Yes, most “established” churches have certain theological requirements that have to be met, sometimes it’s actual training, biblical, conflict resolution, inclusion and diversity training, etc,

    Some, well, you just pay $136K over 3 years at “their school”, then go out into the ministry where you can mollest at will and steal the money for the church roof.

    Across Protestant “Christianity” it varies wildly.

    Anybody can set up a pulpit.

    Here right now, is kinda interesting. A bunch of the churches, that were one demonination, rented them out in the “off hours” to other denominations,  but they are now being torn down to put up condo towers. In our neighborhood, only the Catholic church remains, anchored by a school, and a Mosque in a drycleaners from 5 am to 7 am and 5pm to 9pm.

  156. 156.

    dnfree

    @scav: There is a definition of “Protestant” even though there’s no overarching organization.  The overall term may be somewhat loosey-goosey, but most individual denominations aren’t at all loosey-goosey.

    My husband and I were married by a UCC minister who later left the church and described himself as a “Christian atheist”.  He believed in the teachings of Jesus but not in the existence of God.  Unitarian-Universalists would accept that.

    ETA definition: Protestantism is a branch of Christianity that follows the theological tenets of the Protestant Reformation, a movement that began in the 16th century with the goal of reforming the Catholic Church from perceived errors, abuses, and discrepancies.

  157. 157.

    ETtheLibrarian

    The only real response is “thoughts and prayers” (said with a heavy dose of sarcasm)

  158. 158.

    TriassicSands

    @schrodingers_cat:

    As the Frontline video on Clarence Thomas demonstrates a person of color in the GOP faces a very small number of competitors. The Republicans’ racism makes it vital that they find a number of candidates who can help deflect the claim (um, fact) that they are racist. Republicans of color, with so few competitors, are attracted by the chance for rapid advancement. Nikki Haley and Tim Scott would not stand out at all as Democrats, assuming their political ideologies were compatible.

    When the party needs a token candidate, someone like Haley or Scott stands out in the GOP. Other recent GOP African Americans, like Herman Cain and Ben Carson, who really had no qualifications at all except for their color, still managed to do quite well, if only for a time.

    Toxic ideology is not limited to white Republicans. If there is a minority Republican nominee for either president or vice president, it will be because that person is a reliable Republican who, by virtue of their color (and sex), offers the party a better chance of winning. Haley’s value as a VP candidate is that she offsets Harris, by potentially attracting both female and minority votes and helps to deflect the attention to the party’s history of racism. Look around. Essentially no competition at all.

  159. 159.

    NobodySpecial

    Pat Robertson was an excellent sign that if there was a Christian God, he abandoned us long ago.

    Hopefully he’s not buried; there’s no money for another Superfund site with that level of pollution.

  160. 160.

    andy

    Well, like I saw some smarty pants on tiktok put it, once Robertson is buried, a new gender-neutral bathroom will come into existence. I’m sure once the address become clear, one can do a google search to find the most conveniently located liquor stores, too.

  161. 161.

    Ruckus

    @laura:

    Would that red hot poker fit up there with that thing on the top of his shoulders that he seemed to park in there on a rather constant basis?

  162. 162.

    scav

    @dnfree: It seems to get loosey over Calvinism and all the other leaders reforming the Catholic church.  It wasn’t just Luther, burst of light and done, everybody on the same page.  Anglicanism is another mushy area of muddled compromise and kluging. Hussites?  Tyndale & Lollards? Certainly there are patches of very clear organization with clear rules where everyone’s dealt with things to their satisfaction but that doesn’t means their definitions apply to the whole situation & to everyone.

    For the record, the Catholics have some very muddled and messy exceptions hiding under their tent.  Even to congregations preaching Orthodox rites by married priests.  Eastern Catholic Churches.  People have an astonishing talent at making things complicated.

  163. 163.

    FelonyGovt

    My daughter sent me a meme of a rainbow flag with a smiley face saying

    Pat

    Robertson

    Is

    Dead

    Everybody

  164. 164.

    Jinchi

    Pat Robertson taught me that not everyone understood the point Jesus was trying to make when he asked the one without sin to “cast the first stone”.

    A horrible man who made the world a worse place every day of his adult life. He won’t be missed.

  165. 165.

    TriassicSands

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I apologize, my capacity for hatred simply isn’t up to the challenge of the times. It’s possible that I permanently damaged that capacity during RR’s reign of stupidity and then along came W to suck the well dry. Next, I had eight years to replenish the supply, but then Trump appeared posing the greatest threat ever. All the while, i aged and my capacity for regeneration declined.

    Clearly, the only answer is a lot more obituaries, at least one of which needs to come from Florida. But, dilemma of dilemmas, if that happens before an indictment and conviction, it may finish me off.

    What’s a guy to do?

  167. 167.

    TriassicSands

    @oldster: Watt and Robertson in one day! Thank you, Jimmy Carter!

    Watt died on May 27, but they delayed the announced until they found just the right Superfund site on which to deposit his remains.

  168. 168.

    prostratedragon

    And so we smile inwardly, as with Emile Meyer in Paths of Glory we intone, “Death comes to us all …”

  169. 169.

    dnfree

    @scav: The Orthodox churches are completely separate from Catholicism.  There was a whole schism about that maybe a thousand years ago or so.  Yes, Orthodox priests can be married or celibate.

    One of our daughters married in the Greek Orthodox Church.  They have retained some rituals that are older than the Catholic rituals.  For instance, a new mother not being able to enter the church for 40 days after childbirth.  The priest has to come out to the parking lot and bless her first.

    Interestingly, some fundamentalist/evangelical believers have converted to Orthodoxy as being more in line with Biblical teachings.  And some Orthodox churches don’t appreciate the newcomers’ rigidity of belief.

  170. 170.

    Mike in Oly

    I have never been so pleased to read of a death notice in my life. I wish I could dance on his grave.

  171. 171.

    Dissembling Remora

    @Leto: A very fine comment among many at that link:

    The two worst things about pissing on Pat Robertson’s grave… the line… and eventually, you run out of piss.

  172. 172.

    RevRick

    @Chris: Dr. Robert P. Jones in his book, “White Too Long,” has carefully researched how imbedded white supremacy is in churches in the United States. He himself was raised Southern Baptist and it wasn’t until he was a PhD student at Emory University that he learned the brutal history of his own denomination. And, to no surprise, Southern evangelicals are thoroughly white supremacist.
    But then they are the descendants of the churches that vociferously defended slavery, advocated for secession and Civil War, and supported Jim Crow and its violence. All those photos of a mob gathered at lynchings showed people who were members of Southern evangelical churches.

    So, yes, they are the Confederacy today.

  174. 174.

    scav

    @dnfree: Did you even read the link I provided?  A few Orthodox rite churches are under the Catholic umbrella.  Eastern Catholic Churches. or Eastern Rite Catholicism, etc etc.

    23 Eastern Christian autonomous (sui iuris) particular churches of the Catholic Church, in full communion with the Pope in Rome. Although they are distinct theologically, liturgically, and historically from the Latin Church, they are all in full communion with it and with each other.

    The five historic liturgical traditions of eastern Christianity, comprising the Alexandrian Rite, the Armenian Rite, the Byzantine Rite, the East Syriac Rite, and the West Syriac Rite, are all represented within Eastern Catholic liturgy.[2]Consequently, the Catholic Church consists of six liturgical rites, the eastern rites along with the liturgical rites of the Latin Church.

    The Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches, promulgated in 1990, was the first codified body of canon law governing the Eastern Catholic Churches collectively, superseding a series of ad hoc papal documents issued in the late 20th century on the matter,[6] although each church also has its own internal canons and laws on top of this. Members of Eastern Catholic churches are obliged to follow the norms of their particular church regarding celebration of church feasts, marriage, and other customs. Notable distinct norms include many Eastern Catholic Churches regularly allowing the ordination of married men to the priesthood (although not as bishops to the episcopacy), in contrast to the stricter clerical celibacy of Latin Church. …

  175. 175.

    DFH

    Late to the party, and this is stolen.

     

    I called the Christian Broadcasting Network this morning and asked to speak to Pat Robertson. The woman who answered the phone told me that Rev. Robertson had died. I thanked her and hung up.

    A few minutes later I called back and again asked to speak with Rev. Robertson. She said “Sir, I just told you that Rev. Robertson has died.” I thanked her again and hung up.

    After a few more minutes I called again. The same woman answered the phone and said “Sir, I see it’s you calling again. And I’m telling you again that REV. ROBERTSON IS DEAD! What about ‘he’s dead’ don’t you understand?” I replied “Oh, I understand completely. I just like hearing you say it.”

  176. 176.

    dnfree

    @scav: Late to responding, but yes, I see that the churches you’re referring to include the term “Catholic”, and the Orthodox churches I’m referring to don’t include that term.  Do they regard the Pope as the head of the church?  Orthodox churches do not.

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