The deal ends a long-running Justice Department investigation into Biden’s second son.
“I know Hunter believes it is important to take responsibility for these mistakes he made during a period of turmoil and addiction in his life,” his lawyer said. https://t.co/QgF7Eq8ZQp
— The Associated Press (@AP) June 20, 2023
President Joe Biden’s son Hunter will plead guilty to federal tax offenses but avoid full prosecution on a separate gun charge in a deal with the Justice Department that likely spares him time behind bars.
Hunter Biden, 53, will plead guilty to the misdemeanor tax offenses as part of an agreement made public Tuesday. The agreement will also avert prosecution on a felony charge of illegally possessing a firearm as a drug user, as long as he adheres to conditions agreed to in court.
The deal ends a long-running Justice Department investigation into the taxes and foreign business dealings of President Biden’s second son, who has acknowledged struggling with addiction following the 2015 death of his brother Beau Biden. It also averts a trial that would have generated days or weeks of distracting headlines for a White House that has strenuously sought to keep its distance from the Justice Department…
Two people familiar with the investigation said the Justice Department would recommend 24 months of probation for the tax charges, meaning Hunter Biden will not face time in prison. But the decision to go along with any deal is up to the judge. The people were not authorized to speak publicly by name and spoke to The Associated Press on the condition of anonymity.
He is to plead guilty to failing to pay more than $100,000 in taxes on over $1.5 million in income in both 2017 and 2018, charges that carry a maximum possible penalty of a year in prison. The back taxes have since been paid, according to a person familiar with the investigation…
Christopher Clark, a lawyer for Hunter Biden, said in a statement that it was his understanding that the five-year investigation had now been resolved.
“I know Hunter believes it is important to take responsibility for these mistakes he made during a period of turmoil and addiction in his life,” Clark said. “He looks forward to continuing his recovery and moving forward.”…
Misdemeanor tax cases aren’t common, and most that are filed end with a sentence that doesn’t include time behind bars, said Caroline Ciraolo, an attorney who served as head of the Justice Department’s tax division from 2015 to 2017. An expected federal conviction “is not a slap on the wrist,” she said.
Gun possession charges that aren’t associated with another firearm crime are also uncommon, said Keith Rosen, a past head of the criminal division in the U.S. Attorney’s Office in Delaware. For people without a significant criminal history, the total number of multiple types of illegal possession cases filed every year in Delaware amounts to a handful, he said…
“I’m very proud of my son,” President Biden says of Hunter Biden when asked whether he’s spoken to his son today following his federal charges, per pool reporter @AlexGangitano.
POTUS did not respond to a question about whether he encouraged Hunter to take a guilty plea. pic.twitter.com/bXmStE35k8
— Joey Garrison (@joeygarrison) June 20, 2023
Our updated story, with background on the long and politically fraught history of the federal investigation of Hunter Biden: https://t.co/vFAYb5jTnt W/ @Tom_Winter
— Sarah Fitzpatrick (@S_Fitzpatrick) June 20, 2023
… The decision by U.S. Attorney David Weiss, who was nominated by then-President Donald Trump in 2018, indicates an end to the sweeping, five-year investigation by federal prosecutors, FBI agents and IRS officials into Hunter Biden’s conduct. The Biden administration has kept Weiss in place to avoid having a U.S. attorney appointed by the president oversee his son’s criminal case.
Weiss’s office said in a statement: “Hunter Biden received taxable income in excess of $1,500,000 annually in calendar years 2017 and 2018. Despite owing in excess of $100,000 in federal income taxes each year, he did not pay the income tax due for either year.”
Regarding the gun charge, the statement said that “from on or about October 12, 2018 through October 23, 2018, Hunter Biden possessed a firearm despite knowing he was an unlawful user of and addicted to a controlled substance.” …
The resolution suggests that prosecutors did not find cause to file charges related to Hunter Biden’s dealings with foreign entities or other wrongdoing. Trump and several Republican-led congressional inquiries have long alleged that Biden engaged in years of criminal conduct with people tied to the Chinese government and with companies in Ukraine and elsewhere…
A judge will schedule an arraignment within the next several weeks. Hunter Biden is expected to surrender to Delaware authorities and will be processed by U.S. marshals there.
The criminal probe was overseen by Weiss, whose deliberations, which have dragged on for months, provoked frustration and bewilderment from other law enforcement officials, some of them inside the FBI and the IRS, as both agencies finished their respective investigations last year, according to three senior law enforcement officials. An additional senior U.S. official said the bulk of the IRS investigation was completed in 2020…
The federal investigation began in 2018 under the Trump administration as a broad inquiry of Biden’s international business relationships, with an emphasis on potential national security implications. Over time, it narrowed into an examination of his personal taxes and purchase of a pistol. A grand jury was convened in Delaware and continued to hear testimony from witnesses throughout 2022, according to two sources familiar with the matter.
At times, tensions among investigating U.S. attorney’s offices and agencies ran high, and there were disagreements about potential courses of action, two former senior law enforcement officials said.
In early 2020, the U.S. attorney’s office in Pittsburgh joined the investigation at the request of then-Attorney General William Barr, who was tasked with assessing information provided by Trump’s personal attorney Rudy Giuliani about alleged corruption in Ukraine, which included allegations about Hunter Biden, three senior law enforcement officials said.
Investigators looked into whether Biden acted as an agent or a lobbyist for a foreign government — a potential violation of the Foreign Agents Registration Act. Investigators ultimately determined there was no basis for charges beyond Biden’s gun application and his failure to pay his estimated taxes on time…
In a letter this month responding to [Jim] Jordan’s concerns about the treatment of the IRS agent who had complained about alleged conflicts of interest, Weiss said he couldn’t answer questions about the case because it was an “open matter,” but he reassured Jordan he was acting in accordance with the law, not politics.
“Throughout my tenure as U.S. Attorney my decisions have been made — and with respect to the matter must be made — without reference to political considerations,” Weiss wrote.
The diversion agreement for this felony charge (shown below) basically means that if Hunter stays out of trouble for a couple years, the charge goes away. pic.twitter.com/hadoebIDNJ
— Kyle Cheney (@kyledcheney) June 20, 2023
Nuh uh — Jim Comer will not be ignored!
House Republicans move to consider private documents related to Hunter Biden tax probe https://t.co/ZSC7iFIWX1
— #TuckFrump (@realTuckFrumper) June 20, 2023
House Ways and Means Committee Chair Jason Smith (R-Mo.) has planned a special executive session for the committee on Thursday morning to potentially review documents protected by tax privacy laws related to an IRS probe of Hunter Biden.
The move could foreshadow the public release of documents related to Hunter Biden’s taxes. Smith gave notice Tuesday that he will be exercising his unique authority as chair of the House’s tax writing committee to consider documents that are otherwise barred from disclosure because they bear information related to a private citizen’s tax information…
The individual referenced at the center of the claims, President Joe Biden’s son Hunter Biden, reached an agreement detailed Tuesday in a filing in a Delaware court in which he pleaded guilty to a pair of misdemeanor tax charges.
But several Republicans, including Oversight Committee Chair James Comer (R-Ky.), immediately lambasted the agreement as a “sweetheart deal” and vowed to plow ahead on his months-long investigation of Hunter’s business dealings.
Under a unique section of the tax code vested to the chairs of Congress’ tax writing committees, which was used last year by Democrats to publish former President Donald Trump’s tax returns, Smith could publicly release any private tax information belonging to Hunter Biden by a majority vote.
Although it is unclear what documents are to be considered Thursday and what the committee’s plans are, Smith said in a statement that “we will follow where the facts lead and will release the appropriate details afterward.” …
I’d bet a store-bought cookie this is the last we’ll hear from Chairman Smith — because nobody with enough sense to feed themselves with a fork wants to upgrade this search — but sure, it’ll look great in Comer’s next campaign ads.
And of course every other GOP blowhard will be hoping for a piece of the action.
The Ashcroft Memo was rescinded 13 years ago. https://t.co/qCkrQS3nEN https://t.co/whvCiQlZA7
— Adam Bonin (@adambonin) June 20, 2023
Josh Marshall at TPM casts a cold eye at a ‘still dangling thread’:
As you’d expect, news that the long-running Hunter Biden investigation is ending with pleas to a few relatively low level infractions that are unlikely to result in jail time has been met with gnashing of teeth and donning of sack cloth, in “Where’s Hunter?”/”Biden Crime Family” land. But they are holding on to one faint glimmer of hope. Is the investigation really, really, really over? As in super double over?…
The Department of Justice released a statement by U.S. Attorney David C. Weiss in which he gives a pretty unremarkable recitation of the agreement. Then tucked inconspicuously down at the end of paragraph five he writes: “The investigation is ongoing.”
So is this done or is there more to come?…
Right wingers first seized on this as evidence that there’s more to come and their grandest hopes aren’t actually dashed. But then they came up with an alternate explanation. Maybe the DOJ is keeping the case open on what is now a phantom investigation for the sinister purpose of having an excuse not to turn materials over to Reps. Comer and Jordan. For the moment they appear to be going with both: the dream is alive and the fix is in, with maybe some trend toward the latter.
I’d like to conclude this post with a silver bullet explanation. “In fact, it’s Obvious Answer number five!” But, at least for now, there’s no clear or Obvious Answer. Even the reporters following this closest don’t seem quite clear what it means. Politico for instance speculates that while Hunter Biden himself may face no more exposure the investigation might be continuing with potential charges for others. It’s just not clear. Maybe it’s just boilerplate and it doesn’t really mean anything. The folks who I’d expect would know don’t seem to know.
In any case, if you see people discussing this still dangling thread to the Hunter Biden drama, that’s the best we have so far.
War for Ukraine Day 482: Some of You Have Questions, I May Have Answers
mrmoshpotato
Meh.
Lock Dump up as a flight risk.
Shana
Since it’s an OT I’ll just say that it looks possible that incumbent State Senator Chap Petersen may lose to challenger Saddam Salim in my district in NoVA. I personally like Chap, and he’s been a pretty good SS but he refuses to help pass any stricter gun control laws in the Commonwealth and I think it’s a mistake.
Brachiator
I thought that it was Hunter Biden’s laptop that was the evil doer hated by right wing nut jobs.
My sympathy for the Biden family. But I think that no matter what Hunter Biden does or please to, it won’t be enough for the MAGA idiots.
dmsilev
The GOP must be having dreams of repeating the Benghazi circus, hoping to find something, anything, that they can twist into being Joe Biden’s fault(*). The minor difficulty that Hunter is not Joe must be very disappointing to them.
(*) After typing ‘Joe Biden’s’, my iPad helpfully suggested that the next word should be ‘puppet’.
bbleh
Concur re meh.
That an overdue tax bill and a borderline-nothing gun charge have got this much attention is absurd. Had it been anyone else, the tax thing would have been handled administratively and the gun charge would have been tossed in “oh yeah, you bet, we’re gonna get to that ASAP!” file.
This will be a one-week (at most) wonder, and hereafter only a talking point in the fever swamps and among Republican Congress-critters panting for attention.
Smart of the Bidens to bite the bullet and get it done
@dmsilev: concur, but it just doesn’t have legs, in part because Biden is such a nice normal guy and not an eeevil scheeeming WOMAN!
cain
Wait till they see Trump’s hanging participle.
dmsilev
@Brachiator: Well, maybe, if Hunter appears in a Soviet-style show trial run by the House GOP and tearfully confesses all of his crimes (including littering, late return of three library books, and sampling grapes in the grocery store) and directly implicates Joe in the same crimes, that might be enough. Maybe.
SFAW
And yet Traitor Trump should be given a pass, Jason?
Sparks
@dmsilev: Android is almost as bad.
dmsilev
@SFAW: What about the children of (former) Presidents? I’m sure he’ll get right on investigating all sorts of Jarvanka-related fishy business.
Nelle
I made the mistake of watching local and national news. A very short statement about Hunter and the likely deal, followed by five minutes of letting various Republicans howl about how unfair it was when poor Donald was being persecuted. Did the reporters or the anchor note that they were different charges and that one was a private individual while the other a former government employee engaged in violations of the espionage act? No, they did not. They just let the Republican howls hang in the air for the conclusion of the story.
WaterGirl
Hoping that some wacko judge doesn’t refuse to accept the plea agreement.
Redshift
@Shana:
I know! I’m very excited; the primaries appear to be going quite well from my perspective.
Local Republican committees are finding out that openly urging Republicans to vote for a particular candidate in the (open) Democratic primary does not do wonders for those candidates’ prospects.
Anti-abortion slimeball Joe Morrissey lost his primary.
Insurrection fangirl Amanda Chase list her primary.
And nearly all the candidates I voted for may win!
cain
@Brachiator: They wouldn’t be satisifed if the entire biden family went to prison – theyd be upset that they didn’t catch Hillary as well, and Obama also.
Alison Rose
Let’s see if this time we can avoid comments essentially saying that adults with substance dependencies are losers who deserve no sympathy and should be kicked to the curb.
oatler
“This Sunday, Chuck Todd talks about a possible new red wave incited by GOP rage at Hunter Biden’s slap on the wrist. With Susan Collins and Joe Manchin.”
Jackie
@Brachiator: He could be sent to prison for 100 yrs and the MAGAts/GQP would scream it was too lenient of a sentence.
Redshift
@Nelle:
Yeah, it’s pretty damn annoying. Lots of “Republicans say…” with no mention that if TFG had cooperated and taken a plea deal like Hunter Biden, he also would have gotten a “slap on the wrist” at most. (In reality, he wouldn’t have been charged at all, but we can leave that aside to make the parallels clearer.)
sdhays
@Redshift: It looks like the Fairfax Commonwealth’s Attorney progressive incumbent has staved off the challenge from the Fraternal Order of Police’s attorney too!
Jackie
@Redshift: YAY!!!
Jackie
@Alison Rose: 👍🏻
Viva BrisVegas
I can see why Republicans are outraged at the Hunter Biden convictions.
After all in their world tax and gun crimes are not real crimes at all.
Personally I’m disappointed that Hunter got to pay $100,000 tax on $1.5 million income, but I don’t suppose that a concern to Republicans either.
SiubhanDuinne
@Alison Rose:
Hear, hear!
FastEdD
What I like is the decision a couple years ago by the Biden administration to leave US Attorney David Weiss in place in Delaware, because they knew this was coming. Weiss, who was appointed by tRump was not influenced in any way by Biden. Good move, otherwise the wingnuts would be screaming like we are about Loose Cannon. They scream anyway, I know, but to head off even the appearance of undue influence was a good move. It also helps that even though he was a Trumpie, Weiss seems to be a fair even handed person and the situation was dealt with appropriately.
sanjeevs
Trump has some well thought out views on criminal justice reform
Kate Sullivan on Twitter: “Trump touts pardoning first-time nonviolent drug offender Alice Johnson and says she got “treated terribly,” but then Bret Baier points out Johnson would get the death penalty under his new proposal. “No, no, no. Under my, oh, under that? Uh, it would depend on the severity.” https://t.co/lHQxlPEZX4” / Twitter
Chetan Murthy
@Redshift: that slime ball Morrissey, i’ve been following him off and on since back when he was caught in flagrante delicto With the underage girl who later became his wife. Apparently He’s not exactly a model husband. What a creep!
sdhays
It’s done. Saddam Salim beat him.
WaterGirl
@SiubhanDuinne: @Alison Rose:
Definitely some surprises in the comments of that thread.
sdhays
@Chetan Murthy: Yeah, it’s amazing the creeps that manage to insert themselves into these places of power and still hold it. So glad he’s gone. I just hope he doesn’t cause any extra mischief between now and November.
sdhays
@sanjeevs: I clicked on the thread, and a few tweets down there’s another clip where he says JFK Jr.’s a friend and a great guy.
Brett has to remind him it’s Robert Kennedy Jr.
Truly, a stable genius.
Brachiator
I’m waiting for the op-ed piece that says that President Biden should pardon Hunter so that the nation can heal.
Redshift
@Jackie: Yeah, that was the other annoying thing about the coverage, “this will amp up the GOP attacks and make them continue until the election!”
No, it won’t. That was already going to happen. The possible outcomes (plea deal / trial / investigation dropped / investigation drags on) were only ever going to affect the style of Republican attacks, not whether they would continue as long as Biden is in office.
dmsilev
@sdhays: JFK Jr. is brought up by QAnon nuts; apparently he’s alive and in hiding or something like that. Maybe Trump is listening to the voices inside his head again.
dmsilev
@Brachiator: For symmetry, shouldn’t the calls be for President-in-Exile Trump to issue the pardon?
Another Scott
@bbleh: I’m having flashbacks to Harold Washington:
IIRC, Washington paid his taxes in those years – because they were withheld from his pay. He didn’t file the returns.
A FTFNYT story from March 2022 says: “In the year after he disclosed a federal investigation into his “tax affairs” in late 2020, President Biden’s son, Hunter Biden, paid off a significant tax liability, …”, so it looks like he might have paid the taxes 2 years ago.
Yes, one needs to file one’s taxes and pay the bill on time. But monsters just love using the power of the government against their political enemies.
Grr…,
Scott.
Chetan Murthy
@Redshift: I remember back when people were saying that Hillary shouldn’t run, b/c the GrOPers would get too angry, would throw up too much chaff, etc, etc. That somebody else would be better. And one response was “you just wait, whomever we nominate, they’ll do the same to him/her — whomever it be.” And lo! it came to pass. No other scion of a President would have been hounded this way, back in the day. They’re fucking *hounding* Hunter b/c he’s Joe Biden’s son, and for no other reason. Just like they did to Hillary.
Dems have to get used to this, stop the reflexive crouch, start punching back.
Jerzy Russian
Clear skies in San Diego at the moment. Just past sunset, but I can see the planet Venus and a crescent Moon that is a few days old in the western sky. I expect to see some Earthshine on the “dark” part of the Moon once the sky gets a bit darker.
Redshift
@sdhays: It’s possible it was a deliberate QAnon shout-out, but it seems more likely he’s just stupid.
Burnspbesq
It is an article of faith in certain wingnut circles that Secret Service personnel attempted to cover up events relating to Hunter’s gun. I note that nobody has been charged with anything to date.
mvr
@Another Scott:
It is a great shame that Harold Washington died when he did. Chicago would be a better place had he finished his second term.
Anne Laurie
As I understand it, part of the QAnon mythos is that JFK Jr didn’t really die in that plane crash; he’s lurking undercover, waiting to become Vice President (for life, probably) once Trump is reinstalled to his ‘rightful’ White House position.
Trump has, from his various interviews & Truth Social rants, been huffing those QAnon farts pretty seriously. So it may just be a slip because he’s been reading so much about John-John… but who knows?
(Gotta worry Baier and the other Trump-appeasers, regardless!)
Alison Rose
@WaterGirl: It was disappointing, to say the least.
Nelle
@Jerzy Russian: i was just put looking at the same. A perfect evening.
sdhays
@Redshift: Brainworms is my guess. I mean, it can happen to anyone (saying the wrong name), and he’s bullshitting so there’s that, but he also just…doesn’t have a fully functional brain.
Burnspbesq
@Viva BrisVegas:
None of us know what deductions and credits he had, but it is worth noting that nobody is alleging that he underreported.
If you want to have a conversation about rates and progressivity, we can have that conversation any time.
Jerzy Russian
@Nelle: The western sky is getting darker, and I can start to see a hint of Earthshine. There is probably another hour or so until the Moon sets, so the sky will get a lot darker. Venus is near its eastern-most elongation, so it probably has another 90 minutes or so before it sets.
NotMax
Jeeze. You want fries with this nothingburger?
Jerzy Russian
@Jerzy Russian: I dragged out an old homemade telescope, and Venus appears as a crescent, perhaps about 30% illuminated. This was expected based on its position in the sky relative to the Sun. The craters near the illuminated limb of the moon look nice, owing to the long shadows cast by the lunar surface features when the Moon is in this phase.
sdhays
@sdhays: I’ll be interested to see Geminid weigh in, but it sure looks like it was a bad night for conservadems in Virginia tonight. Some key upsets and defeats for well-backed conservative challengers suggests the Democratic Party isn’t slouching into the election this year.
Jerzy Russian
@Jerzy Russian: The Earthshine looks really interesting in the telescope. The field of view is only slightly larger than the apparent size of the Moon. I can see the full disk of the Moon since it is brighter than the sky. However, there is not enough light to make out any surface features, except on the part of the Moon exposed to direct sunlight.
Jerzy Russian
@NotMax: You had better make it fries. If you serve me onion rings I will be blowing the butt trumpet all night.
laura
It’s laudable that President Biden kept a legal firewall between his Administration and his Son while the matter resolved in settlement. The President’s love for his Son is something to admire and respect. Lives in turmoil- be it a physical or mental illness, substance use or impacted by criminality and the carcereal state are so hard, and so common and there’s such a shortage of Grace that all I’m going to add is that I wish someone would help that rancid shite-bag DJTJr get some help with his dependency problems too.
dmsilev
Apparently Lauren Boebert (R-Crazy) has introduced a bill to impeach President Biden, with the same sort of the-House-must-vote privilege track as last week’s ‘censure Schiff for daring to impugn Trump’ stunt. Guessing this one will go just as well.
cain
@oatler: Special appearance by Catturd2!
cain
@dmsilev: That would be interesting to see what happens – but have they gotten any crimes that he’s done? Seriously, these people scream at the Bidens for politicalized something and then are busy playing politics in the house putting bills to impeach someone who hasn’t broken any laws.
Mike in NC
Cannot forget the time Hunter Biden tried to overthrow the US government to install his dad as dictator for life. Oh, no. That was Republicans doing what they do best: undermining democracy. Fascist assholes.
Bishop Bag
@Jerzy Russian: The Moon and Venus are really bright here in Bishop. I texted my nephew (15 yrs old, lives in Brea and really into astronomy) that they should be really close together tomorrow night.
Good old Grateful Dead…
♬ Counting stars by candlelight
All are dim but one is bright
The spiral light of Venus
Rising first and shining best
Oh, from the northwest corner
Of a brand new crescent moon
While crickets and cicadas sing
A rare and different tune
Terrapin station ♬
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnQxdqoiJx4
dmsilev
@cain: According to the story in the Post, something something border security blah blah blah.
Not that it really matters.
NotMax
Did someone say Venus?
;)
HumboldtBlue
Red state governors are, at this point, criminally neglectful.
Tulsa, Oklahoma, has been without electrical power since Saturday.
Sparks
@Alison Rose: You don’t even need a substance abuse problem. An unsightly disability will do for most.
rikyrah
@Shana:
Was that a major issue in the election
rikyrah
@Redshift:
✊🏾✊🏾✊🏾✊🏾
frosty
@SFAW: My thought exactly when I read that justice shouldn’t be skewed in favor of the wealthy. There goes the whole Republican party, swirling down the drain!
mrmoshpotato
@HumboldtBlue: Criminal negligence. So easy to commit.
Bastards.
cain
@HumboldtBlue: Looks like the great economic engine is stopped in Oklahoma – I wonder if the rurals know if the economic engine stops in the big cities they don’t get much stuff because tax collection goes down.
Keep fucking that chicken, GOP.. eventually even the rural areas are going to figure it out eventually. Especially when you’re off in other places when your state needs you and the voters are footing the bill while you stay in fancy places.
Steeplejack
The ProPublica article on Alito has dropped.
Brachiator
@dmsilev:
Yeah, but Trump would be too busy pardoning himself.
Martin
@cain: Would like to note that hippy California has not had a power outage due to insufficient generation to meet demand since Enron deliberately fucked over the state in 2000.
The power outages we have had were due to fires and the like, not a supply/demand imbalance. Though we’ve come pretty close.
Maybe Oklahoma shouldn’t have put a tax on solar installations in the state after all.
HumboldtBlue
This is what Cole’s wedding reception is going to be like.
JWR
From CNN Live Updates:
Hoping for the best.
Kent
So if I got this straight, Hunter basically got busted for buying a gun and evading taxes?
You would think that would make him a REPUBLICAN HERO as that is basically what their party has been reduced to in recent years.
‘
Martin
@JWR: I wish I was optimistic about this. Nothing at sea happens fast. And not much happens below about 1500′. Doing something fast below 1500′ simply doesn’t happen.
JWR
@Steeplejack: Haha. This should be good.
Here’s a transcript of what little Sammy wrote: “And as I will discuss, he allowed me to occupy what would have otherwise been an unoccupied seat on a private flight to Alaska.”
I guess the poor little jet would have been unbalanced had he not accepted the seat.
JWR
@Martin: Hey, is that really you? Welcome back, because dammit, you’ve been missed!
As for your not so optimistic take on the sub, that’s what I’ve been thinking/dreading, too. But hope springs eternal, right?
Kent
Exactly. Max depth for most military subs is in the 300 meter range (the actual max depths are classified for obvious reasons). Human activity is mostly limited to the surface layer of the ocean and we very rarely ever go below that.
Even if they manage to surface the thing they will still be sealed inside it as the hatch is bolted shut from the outside. One hopes that they would at least have the capability of venting in fresh air. But a small sausage shaped object like that is going to roll like a sonofabitch on the surface in any kind of sea so just surviving on the surface could be a challenge.
Chetan Murthy
@JWR: It’s very difficult to refrain from just shouting “imbeciles! imbeciles!” I’ve read other articles about these bozos, where they simply refuse to have this sub certified by standard agencies. If their sub is so fine and all, it oughta sail thru those certification tests, right? right? Bueller? WTF.
https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/oceangate-was-warned-of-potential-for-catastrophic-problems-with-titanic-mission/
Martin
@JWR: Yeah, always hope, but my dad was a submariner and was in the Atlantic when the Scorpion was lost. There is not a good track record for submersible rescues, and none below 1500′.
Kent
@Chetan Murthy:
I wonder what the total bill is going to be for all this super-expensive SAR effort. It will be in the millions for sure if it hasn’t already reached that point.
Sparks
@Martin: A lot of that is on PG&E. It’s interesting how nice a guy Schwarzenegger appears to be now, after starting the whole mess. Is he terminally ill or something?
Martin
@Kent: Closer to 500m with more modern subs. But these folks could be up to 4000m. I’m sure the Navy has subs that can go deeper than 500m but is there one close enough? Maybe – New London is a likely location for one to be. And those subs aren’t designed for rescue, they’re designed for spying so who knows if it’d even be of use.
The USN acoustic sonar nets aren’t designed to listen for things at depth. That’s how they found the Scorpion, but its explosion was no deeper than 300′. They never heard the ship hit the bottom at 11000′, and it was a 3500 ton nuclear submarine that probably hit at a pretty high rate of speed.
Martin
@Chetan Murthy: The carbon fiber hull is sketchy. Carbon fiber is very prone to defects because it’s a laminate, and carbon fiber fails poorly. It’s extremely strong, but brittle. When it goes, it GOES. There are absolutely ways to image that structure for defects. Shit, I toured one when I was in college in the 80s that was used to image the nuclear reactor vessels for subs and carriers.
But if they’re hearing knocking that suggests that it’s intact, just incapacitated.
Martin
@Sparks: Yeah. I still think the state should take control of PG&E and turn it into a public utility.
Mai Naem mobile
@Chetan Murthy: their PR guy is blaming the US government for holding up some paperwork for the rescue work to happen. He doesn’t say what paperwork ofcourse. Just like the Silicon Valley rescue. We don’t want regulation but hurry up now we fucked up and you need to bail us out NOW!
Martin
@Kent: Well, one of the passengers is a billionaire. The journey itself cost passengers about half a million total. If they survive, should be an easy bill to pay whatever the amount is.
Chetan Murthy
@Martin: One of the others is Pakistan’s richest man (and his son). So yeah, they can afford to cough up for the millions. And OceanGate itself, of course.
Elizabelle
@Martin: Martin! Lovely to see you back! You haz been missed.
Hoping against hope these “explorers” can be rescued. Grimly satisfied that the CEO who responded to that letter of concern by peers in his industry with comments that obtaining safety certification is “anathema to innovation” … is on the craft.
But I’d be good with his being rescued too. Musklike, that one.
JWR
@Chetan Murthy:
I’ve been thinking exactly the same thing. It’s bad enough to be taking the public on space tours, but taking them down into that just as dangerous murk frightens me even more.
And thanks for the link. I’ve heard just a bit about the company on TV news, and the little bit I’ve heard tells me that if this incident doesn’t earn them some sort of public, ie government, oversight, then these “safe to X depth and no deeper” numbers should be stenciled next to the hatch in huge block letters.
And until now, I hadn’t realized just how small the damn thing was! Yikes! No thanks, I’m claustrophobic.
patrick II
Ann Coulter was a guest at Rob Lowe’s roast. I think “target” might be a better description:Coulter roasted.
Geminid
@sdhays: I did not follow more than a handful of these races, so I could not give much of an opinion on this “conservadem” notion. The only candidate I know of who would fit that tag is Sen. Joe Morrissey. He was a weak link in Democratic support for abortion rights. Republicans never had a chance to exploit that because Aaron Rouse’s won a special election in January that gave Democratds a 22-18 Senate majority.
Chap Peterson doesn’t strike me as especially conservative, just not totally “liberal” on the issue of an assault weapons ban.
One liberal/moderate split was over political donations from Dominion, the big power company. For intance, Senate candidate Haya Ayala took Dominion donations, while her opponent Jennifer Carroll Foy was backed by Clean Virginia, a liberal group backed by mega-donor Sonia Smith and her husband Michael Bills.
Bills and Smith are known for their house divided” contributions in the 2017 Governor’s primary, when Bills gave Ralph Northam a large contribution while Smith backed their neighbor Tom Perriello with a similar amount. They are usually on the same page now.
In their own Senate district centered on Charlottesville and Albermarle County, Smith and Bills backed the more liberal candidate, Delegate Sally Hudson, who lost to the more moderate incumbent, Senator Creigh Deeds. I say “more liberal” and “more moderate,” but they had few if any substantive policy differences.
But I agree that Democrats are not slouching into the state legislative races this fall. They seem pretty motivated and united.
Chetan Murthy
@JWR: The FAA regulates SpaceX though, right? So if they think the thing’s too dangerous to fly, they’ll stop it, right? I thought that was one of the things that was going on right now — the FAA deciding whether SpaceX could continue with their Heavy whatever-it-is. Whereas, for submersibles in international waters, it’s all voluntary.
Galt’s Undersea Canyon, so to speak. I have to say, I’m sorry for that kid and hope he survives. But the adults? I can’t really spare a moment of concern for them.
Elizabelle
@Geminid: Thought of you when I heard Joe Morrissey lost his primary to Lashrecse Aird but good. Results were like 68 to 30 (incomplete) when I stopped watching.
Louise Lucas won her primary (yay!). And crazypants Amanda Chase was narrowly defeated in a GOP primary. Narrowly. (The Richmond Times Disgrace calls her a “firebrand.” And Morrissey a “maverick.” Euphemism, euphemism.)
Elizabelle
From the Richmond Times Dispatch:
We’ll see. Sigh of relief over the Aird victory. Morrissey does have beautiful young children. And a furious soon to be ex-wife.
sab
I have a stepson with drug issues. Underlying anxiety issues. Those are very real. He has been considering suicide since he was eight. Then he found drugs. Lately ( thirty years into this awful voyage) he found a competent psychiatrist who believed his pain was real. There are anti-anxiety drugs that work. They need to get them to people that need to get them.
Normally Kay is my lodestar for sensible thought. This time fuck her. She sees them as difficult clients ( they are!) I see them as family, and often they aren’t wanting to steal your silverware. Often they are distressed and need help.
My uncle had a drug addicted daughter. His wife ( girl’s mother) was a trained social worker with a masters degree. They were all into tough love. They hated it but they followed what they had been taught. My husband with our kid said this is fucked up. The kid is in distress. My niece died of an overdose of cocaine. My stepson is still alive. Different drugs but also diferent family approach.
Maybe luck but I don’t think so. Drug addled kids have had problems for years before. Ignore them at your ( and their) peril. We did.
sab
@sab: Also too, much as I love and admire her, fuck Kay on Biden family with drug addicts. Hunter found drugs as a hospitalized infant. Made dealing with them so much harder than my stepson did as a partier in his early teens.
sab
Hunter was also dealing with Beau, who died horribly of cancer fighting every step of the way, which in retrospect wasn’t the best choice. But Beau made it not Hunter. And Hunter was there for Beau.
Family medical issues are unbelievably painful. But still have to make them and live through them. And fuck up your lives afterwards making bad choices under distress.
Elizabelle
@sab: All the best to your family and stepson. Addiction is a terrible master.
I wish success and peace to Hunter Biden and his family. It seems justice was achieved with today’s decisions. Furious at the GOP and their double standards. But without double standards, would they have any at all?
JWR
@Chetan Murthy:
No clue, but I would guess that any meaningful oversight here would be designed to fit the public/private relationship, and not strictly governed by the FAA. IOW, OceanGate might be required to submit their designs for inspection, but with certain system critical areas blacked out as ‘trade secrets’. But again, I don’t know WTF I’m talking about here. ;)
Chris T.
@Alison Rose:
Not sure how well that will turn out (as I work through comments), but: they could be candidates for GLP-1 agonists, which seem to have a surprising anecdotal effect at curbing other addictions (specifically alcohol but maybe more).
Chris T.
@HumboldtBlue: Yikes, it’s affecting Texas and Louisiana too, about 300k customers per https://www.npr.org/2023/06/20/1183149235/power-outages-continue-across-the-southern-u-s-as-a-heat-wave-grips-texas
Chris T.
@Sparks:
I’m not sure what you mean by “that” (in “a lot of that”), but Schwarzenegger had little to do with the PG&E disasters (plural). The 2000 Enron issues were set in motion back in the late 1980s and/or early 1990s (so Pete Wilson perhaps). The fires were all pure Peculation Greed and Extortion business as usual—their lack-of-maintenance goes back decades. (Remember the San Bruno gas pipeline business too!)
Ksmiami
@HumboldtBlue: dude, red states are just deadly to their citizens at this point. Literally there’s a 20 year lifespan gap.
Martin
@Chetan Murthy: Sort of. The FAA regulates spacecraft somewhat similar to aircraft, except Congress in 2004 prohibited the FAA from regulating the safety of people on board the spacecraft. So it’s more focused on protecting people around the launch location, anyone who might be hit from a falling booster, downrange should there be a failure, they enforce environmental issues, etc.
But if Musk wants to cram 100 people in there without restraints or oxygen, then yeah, he can do that. That said, if you launch a spacecraft from US soil, you’re still subject to US laws while in space, so I’m sure there’s some statute that could trigger a criminal charge for negligence, willful disregard for life, etc. but no a priori protection for the folks on the way in.
JWR
Damn, finally got around to the second half of the OceanGate story, and wow, does this guy ever have it wrong about regulatory red tape. How many people are still alive thanks to that red tape? Are you, Mr. Rush, still alive for avoiding regulatory red tape? We shall see.
bjacques
A model of impartiality…
OYEZ! OYEZ! ALL RISE FOR THE CONGRESSIONAL HEARING SCENE! TAKE ONE!
”I’d like to take one too, Dad!”
“Scared, son? Don’t be. I love you at times like this!”
“I know, Dad, but how can you be in—I mean, I still don’t know how you can be my defense lawyer and the People’s Prosecutor all at the *same time*!”
”That’s easy. This way I can personally see that you’re persecuted to the full extent of the laws.”
”That’s my Dad!”
Seriously, I hope Hunter can get help and a long vacation from these Republican turds, and they can cry about Dark Brandon foxing them again, by leaving Trump’s prosecutor in place to offer the “sweetheart” deal.
Bruce K in ATH-GR
@JWR: There’s a saying I’ve heard here and there, that goes something like: “Every safety regulation has a first draft written in blood.” Very much so for the Titanic – they rewrote the rules about lifeboats in response to that disaster.
And time is against the people currently on the Titan – they’re deep, but within the reach of some deep-sea submersibles, like Woods Hole’s Alvin, but then there’s the question of whether a rescue sub and its support fleet can reach them in time…
Matt McIrvin
@Martin: Some of the more obsessive space fans have this belief that people don’t die enough in space, that the fatality rate should be as high as in early aviation and it’s a sign we have lost the nerve to take big risks. I wonder sometimes if it’s an atavistic belief in the power of human sacrifice.
Baud
@Matt McIrvin:
Society did go downhill when we stopped sacrificing virgins to the gods.
More seriously, early aviation wasn’t performed by large institutions like governments and corporations. If regular folks go easily go into space, there’d be plenty of deaths.
JWR
@Bruce K in ATH-GR: They should all, at the very least, have parts like universal deep sea air intake connectors to keep people alive while salvage is going on, but there’s that damn red tape again.
Baud
@JWR:
Why do you hate innovation?
Princess
@Kent: The owner’s estate will certainly be able to afford it and I hope that’s where it comes from. Not sure why we would need to pay for billionaire games gone bad.
EmbraceYourInnerCrone
@Chris T.: this was predicted to happen and as I understand it was an expected result of continued global warming . Heat waves stress the power grid because of overuse A/C but also because the heat and stress on the power grid causes fires in electrical equipment. Causing more outages. Meanwhile the ocean is heating faster than anyone predicted…and Siberia has had a record number of hot days. Near 100F in a few cases. And northern India and southern Pakistan are absolutely broiling…
Sparks
@Nelle: You expect maybe Walter Cronkite? If you think the Times and Post are bad, most television news is far far worse.
JWR
@Baud: It’s just one of my kinks, suppressing universal betterment.
Baud
@Princess:
Could come from the sub company.
Baud
@JWR:
Nominated.
Sparks
@Martin: Being a SMUD customer has been heaven.
Sparks
Sparks
@Sparks: I regret the duplicate but this smartphone glitches insanely. Oftentimes I will touch the panel for a word and instead get an 8.
Frankensteinbeck
@Sparks:
At the time, he looked like an angel compared to every other Republican in the US. He was pro-green energy and while other Republican governors screamed about a black man in the White House, his stated and nearly quoted reaction to the stimulus was “If their states don’t want the money, California will take it.” He had no love for the Republicans’ whiny tantrum plan to destroy the state government with suicide tax laws either.
Now, that’s all clearing a friggin’ ground level bar. Compared to other Republicans, though? Yeah, even then he was a mensch.
Baud
Today show was bad with either Hunter Biden propaganda by the GOP just now. Still, I don’t think it’ll mean much in the long run.
Sparks
@Baud: The rich (not the regular folks) can buy their way into space. And stay there. Can we put Musk in Jupiter? Please?
Baud
@Baud:
Either = their
Sparks
@Frankensteinbeck: We Californians didn’t have to vote for a Republican at all. I sure didn’t.
Frankensteinbeck
@Sparks:
No argument. He only looks good compared to the Hellish background he’s standing against. Just pointing out it was that way at the time, too.
Sparks
@Baud: hope you’re right. The next election is far enough away that the qanon/MAGAT crowd (short memories all) may wonder who Hunter Biden is.
Sparks
@Frankensteinbeck: Quite true. Being telegenic helped loads, too.
LiminalOwl
@laura: Beautifully said, but of course successful SUD treatment requires some buy-in from the dependent person. Do we have any reason to think TrumpJr would be interested in treatment?
lowtechcyclist
@bjacques:
“Do you promise to covet property, propriety, plurality, surety, security, and not hurt the state, say ‘what’?”
“What?!”
LiminalOwl
@sab: I am so sorry that you and your family have had to deal with all if this, and very glad to hear that your stepson has found a competent and compassionate psychiatrist.
And I agree about the “tough love” approach. As a trained counselor (not a social worker), I’ve been arguing against that (and other stigmatizing “treatment”) for years.
Best wishes to all of you.
Uncle Cosmo
@SiubhanDuinne: Transl(iter)ated into OttoKorrekt, that would be –
;^p
mrmoshpotato
The 1910’s called. They want you to go fuck yourself, you plague rat bitchass.
Geminid
@Frankensteinbeck: Schwarzenegger was a throwback, a Rockefeller Republican in the 21st century. It’s like that Recall process created a wormhole and a wooly mammoth walked through it.
MomSense
@Alison Rose:
Seriously. That was edifying and not in a good way.
mrmoshpotato
@Sparks: The Sun is closer.
Source
mrmoshpotato
@Geminid: Wooly Bully?
Chris T.
@mrmoshpotato:
Yes, but it’s harder to get to, energetically speaking. The delta-V to get into orbit is 11.2 km/s; the delta-V to fall into the sun is another 29 km/s but to get to Jupiter is just 9 km/s.
Uncle Cosmo
A good deal more forgivable than tooting the trump butthurt, IMHO. But U.B.U….
Uncle Cosmo
And it damwell orta. Pressure differential between sea level atmosphere and hard vacuum is, wait for it, 1 atmosphere (14.7 psi). Pressure differential between sea level atmosphere and water at
GigundousTitanic depth is ~400 atmospheres (6000 psi). Crushed like an eggshell, my bathyspherical arse – a sledgehammer slammed down at max speed from high overhead would be a frackin’ love tap.Geminid
@Elizabelle: Wow, Morrissey didn’t even come close. Makes me want to buy a Richmond Times-Dispatch just to see the banner headline. He’s been big news in that town.
This next General Assembly will have an exceptional influx of new faces. The new map really shook things up. Last I read, retirees collectively had well over 300 years of tenure. Democrats Chap Peterson and Lionel Spruill probably had 50 years between them, and they are now out.
One exception to this trend: moderate veteran Senator Creigh Deeds won over “progressive” newcomer Del. Sally Hudson. That was an interesting race.
Overall, the primaries bode well for Democrats in November, I think. The party is fairly unified around a moderately Liberal, or liberally Moderate consensus., and now the Republicans are a radical Conservative party that is out of step with 21st century Virginia.
Baud
@Geminid:
Are you suggesting that Hunter Biden won’t be the main issue on Virginia voters minds in November?
Ken
I’m glad I dipped into this thread this morning and heard about the OceanGate sub. I was puzzled by a couple of tweets I saw last night*, but it was late enough that I didn’t feel like searching.
* “An amazing number of deep-sea-rescue experts have suddenly shown up in my comments”, “Why doesn’t Elon just design a rescue sub”, that sort of thing.
Geminid
@Baud: The Republicans might try to make Hunter Biden an issue, but they are the only people who care.
Democrats will fight this fall’s elections on the issues of abortion rights, gun safety, and education. Republicans are clearly on the wrong side of majority opinion on the first two issues, and I think Democrats can put them on the wrong side regarding the third.
Suburban districts will be the battleground.
Baud
@Ken:
Now that COVID is not a concern, there are a whole lot of Twitter virologists looking for work.
Chris
@Frankensteinbeck:
I appreciate the fact that he’s gone all-in on calling out the fascists for what they are. Of course, given his heritage, you can understand why it would strike a resonant chord.
Kay
@Alison Rose:
That isn’t what I said. I believe attributing all bad behavior to substance dependency is sentimental nonsense and also weirdly patronizing and disrespectful of the addict. Addicts are people. They’re not tragic figures in a novel. They can behave just as selfishly as anyone else, with or without the addiction.
Substance dependency didn’t make Hunter Biden accept a position on the board of Burisma while his father was Vice President and involved in issues with Ukraine, a decision by Hunter Biden that caused his father great concern because of the appearance of a conflict according to Hunter Biden’s book.
I just hope he can manage not to do anything else selfish and boneheaded for the next year. If he wants to help his father and return some of that love now that he’s sober he could keep his head down for a while. Sacrifice. Make amends.
mardam
I hope Comer pulls in the US Attorney to testify in front of his committee. I don’t think he will. The last thing Comer wants is for the USA to tell him on the record, in front of cameras and reporters, that there is no there there with regard to Biden(s) and Burisma/China/Mars/other dimensions.
Kay
@Alison Rose:
Also Alison? I don’t accept your authority as the site monitor. I would wager I have had decades more direct, daily experience with addicts than you have. I love addicts and sometimes, not often, I have even helped them get sober. I just don’t turn them into pathetic cartoon characters worthy of pity.
WereBear
Have you been to a red state “city”? It’s deliberately kept at a county seat/small town level. They scorn cities and refuse to build any lest they lose MORE talent and competency.
Such as allowed under proto-fascism and fanatical religion. Why I moved a thousand miles to date in a different pool.
Another Scott
@Martin:
The Navy recently salvaged an F/A-18 from 9500 feet in the Mediterranean . It took around a month to get the salvage equipment there, find it, and bring it up though…
:-(
Cheers,
Scott.
Kay
@sab:
Sab, I don’t know your stepson – I haven’t read interviews with him about his book like I have with Hunter Biden- and I certainly don’t think anyone should “kick him to the curb” since probably 20% of my extended family are drug addicts.
Hunter Biden had long periods of sobriety. He made (IMO) poor and selfish decisions during those periods too. The Burisma decision isn’t real complicated- he took the job because they paid him a shitload of money. He shouldn’t have. It’s the appeance of a conflict, which is exactly what his father was concerned about at the time. Sometimes you have to sacrifice for family members. When it came time for Hunter to sacrifice on behalf of his father he said “nah- I think I’ll take the money”. Bad behavior. Not drug dependency.
Denali5
They will never stop with Hunter Biden. It’s the emails all over again. But this time it is personal – family issues – to bring down Biden. I am very angry. Biden has been through so much loss. How dare they!
Quinerly
@Denali5:
I think they want to drive Hunter to suicide. It’s calculated and that’s how evil they are. It would destroy Biden.
Just dipped in to say that, reading from the bottom up.
Elizabelle
@Quinerly: Good morning to you and JoJo.
I think that is the plan too. Please let them have as little success with that as their other endeavors. Horrible people.
Kay
@sab:
As I’ve said before I think the net effect of Right wingers jeering at Biden for supporting his son is + Biden, based solely on how many addicts there are – a lot. I woud expect Joe Biden to love his son (although loving someone does not mean pretending they are perfect – I’m sure Biden is well aware of Hunter’s flaws) but I don’t have to love him. I just hope he doesn’t fuck this up for his father.
Geminid
@Quinerly: Republican are certainly cruel, but they are also desperate. They see they are on the wrong side of majority opinion on issues Americans really care about, so they have to hype non-issues like Hunter Biden, drag queens, CRT, etc. I don’t think they are are doing any more than rallying a radical, shrinking base, though.
Uncle Cosmo
Someone needs to remind that goombah that his forefathers were considered greasy, filthy, stinking-of-garlic thugs, criminals and anarchists – and (horror of horrors!) not even white. And were treated accordingly.
A bitter joke from just before I was born:
As a young man my dad knew what it was like to be called dago, wop, guinea[1] – and growing up a 100% italoamericano kid[2] I would hear jokes like that from my people, as if we were the poor aggrieved ones. And once we were godfathered into whititude[3] we got busy yanking the ladder up out of the hands of every other ethnic group.
(Do I have a problem with “my people”? Don’t
get me startedkeep me going! Among other things, it pisses me off to no end how they love to strut around claiming to be the inheritors of the great Italian culture of Dante and Michelangelo and Verdi, when in fact our illiterate peasant ancestors had fuck-all to do with any of it, having emigrated from the benighted Mezzogiorno south of Rome, which since the fall of Rome had contributed nothing to civilization but vendettas and banditry. Madonnamia, che vergogna!)[1] Smile when you call me that, he reportedly would say. If you’re not smiling, we’re going to have a problem. Dad was a mild-mannered guy but a well-muscled athlete, so it rarely came to that.
[2] And half Sicilian to boot. (Sicilian foreplay: Ay! Wake up!)
[3] Effectively in exchange for the US Mafia dons’ assistance to the Allied armies when they invaded Sicily.
PBK
@Kay: Brava to both your comments.
Another Scott
@Kay: OTOH, I’ve read that he specifically told Bursima that he wasn’t going to do anything that was hinky when it came to foreign lobbying and all the rest.
Of course, Google searches are polluted with RWNJ talking points, so I can’t quickly find it.
My bottom line is that family members outside of government are entitled to earn a living. AFAIK, there’s no evidence that HB tried to lobby for Bursima or do anything else hinky.
It’s good for everyone involved (except the RWNJ vatniks) that this prosecution is wrapping up.
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
Alison Rose
@Kay: Cool story.
Alison Rose
@Kay: LOL what the fuck. I am not, nor have I ever implied that I believe myself to be, the “site monitor”. But saying that I hope people can show a little more compassion and understanding about a very difficult topic is too schoolmarmish for you? OKAY THEN YIKES. I don’t give a fuck how much “direct experience” you have. I have experience too. But what I also have is a heart and I choose to use it. That is not me turning them into “cartoon characters” but rather recognizing their humanity. If you can’t tell the difference, that is an issue with you, pal, not with me.
Kay
@Alison Rose:
Oh, bullshit. You wrote that you hope no one would comment in a way you find unacceptable.
I don’t have to repeat this generic, boilerplate “this is the proper approach to addicts”. That’s not recognizing their “humanity”. It’s turning them into a cause.
I’m talking about ONE person here. Hunter Biden. He makes stupid and selfish decisions consistently, both when hes fucked up and when he’s sober. I didn’t make some grand sweeping addiction statement and I didn’t say anyone should be kicked to the curb.
Kay
@Another Scott:
If he was someone on the Right we would laugh at that – it’s a joke. Again, JOE BIDEN was concerned about the appearance of a conflict with Hunter’s employment choices. Hunter considered his father’s (correct) objections and took the seat anyway. Because he wanted the money! Nothing whatever to do with addiction or his childhood trauma. He had YEARS of sobriety during his poor decisions.
Kay
@Another Scott:
I get it- it’s a witch hunt just like the Clintons and I obviously think no less of Joe Biden because of his son’s behavior BUT if we are going to set a standard for appearance of a conflict we have to stick to it. Biden can’t control Hunter but we don’t have to defend Hunter’s poor choices- not his personal choices- the choices that affect us because his father is in government. When sab’s step son takes a seat on a board when his father is involved in the policy of that country I would object to that addict too.
Another Scott
@Kay: You’re setting an impossible standard here, and who is supposed to enforce it?
He can’t make $1M a year?
He can’t be on a foreign board? What about a domestic board? What about a non-profit board? What about an advocacy group?
Where do you draw the line?
“We can’t have even the appearance of nepotism, therefore only leaders who are orphans and have no siblings and no children can hold office if their family members have a job outside the home.”
:-/
Unless there’s actual evidence of nepotism (e.g., TIFG hiring his family) and corruption (running the family business while on the government dime), I’m inclined to give family members the benefit of the doubt on how they earn a living.
YMMV.
Cheers,
Scott.
Kay
@Another Scott:
He says himself if he had to do it over again he wouldn’t. He’s a Yale-trained lawyer. He understands that one does not need actual corruption or a quid pro quo for the appearance of a conflict. It was simply not essential that he serve on that board at that time.
He’s gotten enormous gain from his privileges. That comes with sacrifices and this was not a big one- he lives in a house that rents for 20k a month. He’s doing okay. He can turn down a board seat or two until his father is out of office.
Msb
@ Kay
”Also Alison? I don’t accept your authority as the site monitor.”
Disagreeing with you doesn’t make anybody a site monitor, self-appointed or otherwise. If you had not rushed to claim Alison Rose’s criticism, I would not have known to whom she might have been referring. A person with confidence in their experience and expertise doesn’t need to throw vernal bricks at their critics.
Shana
@sdhays: After getting up at 5:30 (I am so not a morning person) to open my precinct I was in bed by the time it was called. Nice thing to wake up to this morning though.
Shana
@rikyrah: It was enough of an issue. Chap is what you used to have to be for the district, which is practically a Republican. The district and the state have moved more blue since he was first elected and he hasn’t adapted. He also was strongly for opening schools in the midst of Covid, mostly I think because he had 5 kids at home and he wanted them out of the house and back in school. The last one is pure speculation on my part but he did come out for reopening schools.