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Republicans don’t want a speaker to lead them; they want a hostage.

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You are here: Home / Politics / Trump Indictments / More Charges Coming?

More Charges Coming?

by WaterGirl|  June 29, 20233:21 pm| 204 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads, Politics, Trump Indictments

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The last thread was a total dud, so maybe we need a new one.

I very much like the sound of this:

The DOJ is prepared to seek indictments against multiple figures in former president Donald Trump’s orbit...

and this:

They would do so using evidence against the ex-president that has not yet been publicly acknowledged by the department, including other recordings prosecutors have obtained which reveal Mr Trump making incriminating statements.

Please, please, please.

⚖️

https://t.co/mFHfc7WLUd

— Jack E. Smith ⚖️ (@7Veritas4) June 29, 2023

I don’t generally follow UK newspapers – is the Indepenent reliable?

Independent

The Department of Justice is prepared to seek indictments against multiple figures in former president Donald Trump’s orbit and may yet bring additional charges against the ex-president in the coming weeks, The Independent has learned.

According to sources familiar with the matter, the department has made preparations to bring what is known as a “superseding indictment” — a second set of charges against an already-indicted defendant that could include more serious crimes — against the ex-president, and could do so in a number of different venues, depending on how prosecutors feel the case they have brought against him in a Florida federal court is proceeding.

The Independent understands that prosecutors’ decision on whether to seek additional charges from a grand jury — and where to seek them — will depend in part on whether they feel the Trump-appointed district judge overseeing the case against him in the Southern District of Florida, Aileen Cannon, is giving undue deference to the twice-impeached, now twice-indicted former president.

Prosecutors are now prepared to “stack” an “additional 30 to 45 charges” on top of the 37-count indictment brought against Mr Trump on 8 June. They would do so using evidence against the ex-president that has not yet been publicly acknowledged by the department, including other recordings prosecutors have obtained which reveal Mr Trump making incriminating statements.

Curious… do you guys see this as a warming to Cannon?  As a power move?  As standard operating procedure?

Open thread.

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Reader Interactions

204Comments

  1. 1.

    raven

    June 29, 2023 at 3:24 pm

    Parkland officer not guilty of not confronting the Parkland School Shooter.

  2. 2.

    WaterGirl

    June 29, 2023 at 3:25 pm

    @raven: What?  That’s bullshit.

  3. 3.

    Baud

    June 29, 2023 at 3:26 pm

    Anything may happen.

  4. 4.

    raven

    June 29, 2023 at 3:28 pm

    @WaterGirl: Looks like they overcharged again.

  5. 5.

    raven

    June 29, 2023 at 3:29 pm

    Peterson retired shortly after the shooting and then was fired retroactively.

    Robert Jarvis, a Nova Southeastern University law professor, said there is no question Peterson deserved firing but prosecuting him “seems like such an overreach.”

    “Peterson is an easy punching bag, but many, many people failed on February 14,” he said. “Peterson … is being made into a scapegoat.”

    To gain a conviction, prosecutors must convince jurors that Peterson knew Cruz was firing inside the building and that his actions and inaction exposed the victims to harm.

  6. 6.

    Baud

    June 29, 2023 at 3:29 pm

    I didn’t think superseding indictments could be in a different venue.

  7. 7.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 29, 2023 at 3:32 pm

    @Baud:  I don’t believe they can be.

  8. 8.

    cain

    June 29, 2023 at 3:32 pm

    @Baud: I think the plan is to overwhelm his supporters and Trump himself with indictments in multiple venues. I think there is probably even more crimes being discovered that isn’t related to the direct case plus they got a whole bunch of new people that need prosecuting. This guy is looking to clean up.

  9. 9.

    MisterDancer

    June 29, 2023 at 3:34 pm

    @WaterGirl: It’s horrific and not shocking in the least.

  10. 10.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 29, 2023 at 3:36 pm

    @cain: Filing additional indictments isn’t the issue.  It’s the reference to a superseding indictment, which is basically an amended indictment that adds further charges.  That’s what has caused a bit of confusion.

  11. 11.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    June 29, 2023 at 3:36 pm

    Prosecutors are now prepared to “stack” an “additional 30 to 45 charges” on top of the 37-count indictment brought against Mr Trump on 8 June. They would do so using evidence against the ex-president that has not yet been publicly acknowledged by the department, including other recordings prosecutors have obtained which reveal Mr Trump making incriminating statements.

    Interesting. I’ve seen in the last couple days that Garland-hating twitter has been getting it’s hate on for Smith for not bringing indictments in NJ for the (apparent? alleged?) Bedminster fuckery. I wonder if this is why they’ve held back on that. Those charges would have to go before a judge in the state, no?

    I am curious as to why they didn’t search Bedminster. Did they have such good info– security footage and eyewitness accounts- that they know where all the Beautiful Mind Boxes were?

  12. 12.

    WaterGirl

    June 29, 2023 at 3:39 pm

    @Baud: @Omnes Omnibus:

    I thought that, too, but of course you guys would know.  Then I decided they were suggesting that they are weighing their options  between superseding indictments and indicting in other places, too.

  13. 13.

    WaterGirl

    June 29, 2023 at 3:41 pm

    @MisterDancer: I wouldn’t be brave enough to run into the equivalent of the burning building – and that is why I am not a firefighter or a police officer.

    You put on the badge, you had better be prepared to put yourself in danger to help others.

  14. 14.

    WaterGirl

    June 29, 2023 at 3:42 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Their info on Bedminster was something like a year or more old – my understanding is that with one-year=old information, they didn’t have probable cause that could get them the warrant.

  15. 15.

    dmsilev

    June 29, 2023 at 3:46 pm

    I want TFG charged everywhere and anywhere possible. But also, please please please let there be charges against Giuliani for all of his attempted election fuckery. Though, I’m willing to credit him at least some time off his sentence in recognition for the gift he gave to the nation’s comedians in the form of Four Seasons Total Landscaping.

  16. 16.

    dm

    June 29, 2023 at 3:49 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I’m sure the lawyers will chime in, but, to get a search warrant, you have to have be able to put pretty good evidence before a judge that you’re going to find something in the places you tell the judge you’re going to look.

    At Bedminster, they may suspect there’s stuff based on circumstances, but they don’t have a witness telling them, “Gee, I saw TOP SECRET folders spilled on the floor of the ballroom, maybe you should check that stuff out.”

    I kind of wonder about the Secret Service detail.  Surely they all have clearances, and would know what they were seeing, and would feel a responsibility to report it?  Or are they all Stockholm Syndromed?

  17. 17.

    MattF

    June 29, 2023 at 3:49 pm

    I guess I’m in the ‘additional’ indictment camp, i.e., rather than ‘superseding’. It would explain why Bedminster stuff has been downplayed to some degree. Also… did Rudy make a proffer (gift link)?

  18. 18.

    Another Scott

    June 29, 2023 at 3:50 pm

    BREAKING: house republicans’ “human source” for the FBI 1023 they’re freaking out about has DENIED that anyone at Burisma had ANY contact with VP Biden when Hunter was on the board. Raskin has AUDIO TAPE receipts. Womp womp, Comer. https://t.co/7YYlsBCG0X

    — Mueller, She Wrote (@MuellerSheWrote) June 29, 2023

    This is utterly bizarre. The lone request for a gay wedding website in 303 Design, one of the cases SCOTUS has yet to decide this term, appears to be fabricated. https://t.co/vqJFdikOnE

    — southpaw (@nycsouthpaw) June 29, 2023

    I’m sensing a pattern here….

    Grr…,
    Scott.

  19. 19.

    rikyrah

    June 29, 2023 at 3:51 pm

    The 1/6 indictments and the Georgia ones will read like a John Grisham novel.

  20. 20.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    June 29, 2023 at 3:51 pm

    @WaterGirl: I think they subpoenaed the security footage from Bedminster.

  21. 21.

    JPL

    June 29, 2023 at 3:54 pm

    @rikyrah:  That’s what I think.   Eastman getting disbarred might be the best thing to happen to him.     I think Willis will arrive with a list.

  22. 22.

    Sister Golden Bear

    June 29, 2023 at 3:56 pm

    @Another Scott: Using an invented company that never actually was in business filing a complaint about a non-existent request by a fictional client to strip LGBTQ people of their rights… this is my utterly unshocked face.

  23. 23.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    June 29, 2023 at 3:56 pm

    @WaterGirl:  @dm: thanks

  24. 24.

    Yutsano

    June 29, 2023 at 3:56 pm

    @Another Scott: i can smell the copulation of rodentia from here.

  25. 25.

    Doug R

    June 29, 2023 at 3:57 pm

    @WaterGirl: I don’t see that you could do anything really more than firing as WCB would say a police officer has the right to stay alive.

  26. 26.

    moonbat

    June 29, 2023 at 3:58 pm

    I think we’ve been reading the House GOP’s craven defense of Trump all wrong. It’s not Trump they’re trying to save, it’s their own asses. How long before that evil DOJ begins handing out charges to about 8 sitting House GOP representatives? I know one of ours here in PA was up to his neck in conspiracy.

  27. 27.

    WaterGirl

    June 29, 2023 at 3:59 pm

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: Yes, they got that footage quite awhile ago, but we are just learning about it recently.

    I believe that we are only seeing the tip of the Jack Smith iceberg.

  28. 28.

    WaterGirl

    June 29, 2023 at 4:00 pm

    @JPL:  I’m not sure what you’re suggesting here.

    That’s what I think.   Eastman getting disbarred might be the best thing to happen to him.     I think Willis will arrive with a list.

  29. 29.

    WaterGirl

    June 29, 2023 at 4:02 pm

    @Doug R:

    “We’re here to protect and serve.  If it’s too scary, we’ll protect ourselves and not you.”

    I don’t think that’s how most of us view the obligations of a police officer.

  30. 30.

    WaterGirl

    June 29, 2023 at 4:04 pm

    @moonbat: I think a ridiculous number of Rs have been taking Russian money for a long time.

    I think it’s kind of a “we must all hang together or most assuredly we will all hang separately” kind of thing.

  31. 31.

    Jeffro

    June 29, 2023 at 4:05 pm

    Hey that ex-Ohio Speaker of the House got sentenced today – woot!

    20 years, baby!!

  32. 32.

    WaterGirl

    June 29, 2023 at 4:06 pm

    I think this needs to be a meme.

    It’s the summer of Justice and we’re about to turn up the heat.

    Stay hydrated.

    — Jack E. Smith ⚖️ (@7Veritas4) June 29, 2023

  33. 33.

    rikyrah

    June 29, 2023 at 4:06 pm

    @moonbat:think we’ve been reading the House GOP’s craven defense of Trump all wrong. It’s not Trump they’re trying to save, it’s their own asses. How long before that evil DOJ begins handing out charges to about 8 sitting House GOP representatives? I know one of ours here in PA was up to his neck in conspiracy.

     

    I think Jack Smith following THE MONEY, in addition to having Meadows texts and emails…

     

    TERRIFIES THEM

  34. 34.

    Baud

    June 29, 2023 at 4:06 pm

    @Jeffro:

    👍

  35. 35.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    June 29, 2023 at 4:06 pm

    @moonbat: Perry? I was thinking earlier today: Did the DoJ ever get final court approval to see/use the contents of his phone?

    ETA: Nicolle Wallace’s interview with Biden airing now

  36. 36.

    WaterGirl

    June 29, 2023 at 4:07 pm

    @Jeffro: Let’s hope this is the summer of justice for a lot of corruption.

  37. 37.

    Jeffro

    June 29, 2023 at 4:07 pm

    @WaterGirl:I think a ridiculous number of Rs have been taking Russian money for a long time.

    Yup.  Money and the occasional bit or five of kompromat on their opponents.

  38. 38.

    WaterGirl

    June 29, 2023 at 4:08 pm

    @rikyrah: I think Jack Smith is FOLLOWING EVERYTHING, and it should terrify them.

  39. 39.

    Jeffro

    June 29, 2023 at 4:09 pm

    @rikyrah:The 1/6 indictments and the Georgia ones will read like a John Grisham novel.

    They just might.  I’m hoping they sound like a B-52 strike.

  40. 40.

    WaterGirl

    June 29, 2023 at 4:10 pm

    Speaking of justice…

    Just keep losing, losing, losing. Just keep losing. https://t.co/OLiAY7oyqe

    — Mueller, She Wrote (@MuellerSheWrote) June 29, 2023

  41. 41.

    Dangerman

    June 29, 2023 at 4:11 pm

    @WaterGirl: I think it’s kind of a “we must all hang together or most assuredly we will all hang separately” kind of thing.

    So, an express bus lane for hanging? Works for me.

  42. 42.

    FastEdD

    June 29, 2023 at 4:12 pm

    Jack Smith sure knows his stuff. The only thing I am worried about is getting a fair-minded judge and a jury that is impartial. And running out of time. If Fat Bastard is convicted even once democracy will be okay.

  43. 43.

    Jay

    June 29, 2023 at 4:14 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    The Independent is a bit better than The Guardian, so yeah, somewhat reliable.

  44. 44.

    Jeffro

    June 29, 2023 at 4:15 pm

    @moonbat:It’s not Trump they’re trying to save, it’s their own asses. How long before that evil DOJ begins handing out charges to about 8 sitting House GOP representatives?

    It’s both, and what’s great is that trump is surely going to bleat on, loudly and publicly, about how they’d BETTER save him…or else

    He knows where all the dirt is.  He knows what the kompromat on each of these goons is.  He also knows they’ve all been taking lightly-laundered Russian money for quite some time, too.

  45. 45.

    Redshift

    June 29, 2023 at 4:16 pm

    TFG was telling a crowd “there might be more indictments” yesterday or the day before. Now I wonder if his lawyers got heads-up from DOJ about something specific, rather than just “well, duh, everyone knows that except you, dude.”

  46. 46.

    JPL

    June 29, 2023 at 4:16 pm

    @WaterGirl:  IMO He will be indicted for his scheme to overturn the election.   You don’t have to serve time behind bars if you are disbarred.

  47. 47.

    narya

    June 29, 2023 at 4:16 pm

    @Sister Golden Bear: Not least because the Masterpiece decision basically put up guideposts about how to bring the case, IIRC.

  48. 48.

    trollhattan

    June 29, 2023 at 4:17 pm

    So they fished out (sorry, no, really) parts of the imploded Titanic semi-submersible including presumed human remains. But really, how much can be left? Impressive technical feat, to be sure. And within a day of that, the latest probable source of rich person exotic tourism deaths heads into near space.

  49. 49.

    WaterGirl

    June 29, 2023 at 4:18 pm

    @JPL:

    You don’t have to serve time behind bars if you are disbarred.

    Why not?  He had his law license when he did all the crimes.

  50. 50.

    HumboldtBlue

    June 29, 2023 at 4:19 pm

    Joe is being Joe, meaning he’s being far too fucking kind to Senate Republicans.

  51. 51.

    mrmoshpotato

    June 29, 2023 at 4:20 pm

    The DOJ is prepared to seek indictments against multiple figures in former president Donald Trump’s orbit…

    Delicious!  Slap all the trash with most of the fish!

    (Keep some chubs and salmon for smoking.  Mmmmm smoked chubs.)

  52. 52.

    trollhattan

    June 29, 2023 at 4:20 pm

    @WaterGirl: Is “absolute presidential immunity” anything like double-secret probation?

    I fail to grasp how the mere act of entering the White House grants no takesy-backsies for life.

  53. 53.

    Dangerman

    June 29, 2023 at 4:24 pm

    @trollhattan: But really, how much can be left?

    SWAG, but maybe something artificial like a hip replacement? Otherwise, it’s like the Dude that got sucked into the airplane engine in Dallas (how does that happen unless you wanna off yourself spectacularly?), I mean, not a lot.

  54. 54.

    Calouste

    June 29, 2023 at 4:24 pm

    @Jay: Both are a heck of a lot better than the Telegraph and the Daily Mail though.

  55. 55.

    geg6

    June 29, 2023 at 4:24 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    Just in case you really are asking, disbarment is a professional licensing procedure.  You lose your license to practice if you lose the case.  It has nothing to do with criminal prosecutions.

  56. 56.

    Jay

    June 29, 2023 at 4:25 pm

    @Dangerman:

    Tumbrel lane, 2 passengers or more.

  57. 57.

    JPL

    June 29, 2023 at 4:25 pm

    @WaterGirl:   BTW   This is from George Conway

    From the journalist who first reported that a federal indictment was about to drop.

    Conway seems to think the reporter is reliable.

  58. 58.

    RevRick

    June 29, 2023 at 4:26 pm

    @moonbat: Are his initials S(cott) P(erry)?

  59. 59.

    WaterGirl

    June 29, 2023 at 4:26 pm

    @trollhattan: I know!

    What I don’t know is whether he still absolutely believes it or if it’s more “that’s my story and I’m sticking to it” at this point.

    It’s willful blindness if he still believes it.

  60. 60.

    mrmoshpotato

    June 29, 2023 at 4:27 pm

    @dmsilev:

    Though, I’m willing to credit him at least some time off his sentence in recognition for the gift he gave to the nation’s comedians in the form of Four Seasons Total Landscaping.

    I’m not!  Punch Ghouliani in his fucking fascist face with the full force of the law!

    ETA – and let Hillary kick him in the nuts too!  “She wasn’t there on 9/11.” Fuck off!

  61. 61.

    WaterGirl

    June 29, 2023 at 4:28 pm

    @geg6: Yeah, that’s why I’m still not understanding what JPL is saying.  Still trying to figure it out.

  62. 62.

    Eunicecycle

    June 29, 2023 at 4:29 pm

    @Jeffro: and yay! he was led away in handcuffs by US Marshals to begin serving his sentence!

  63. 63.

    Baud

    June 29, 2023 at 4:30 pm

    @dmsilev:

    @mrmoshpotato:

    Let’s compromise and rename the prison he’s housed in to Four Seasons Correctional Facility.

  64. 64.

    Scout211

    June 29, 2023 at 4:32 pm

    @WaterGirl: I have commented before that Trump’s attorneys seem to be getting closer and closer to just claiming, “My client is King for life.  Anything he does must allowed because he is King! All hail King Donald!”

  65. 65.

    Ken

    June 29, 2023 at 4:33 pm

    “including other recordings prosecutors have obtained which reveal Mr Trump making incriminating statements”

    I just felt a tiny disturbance in the Force, as if the few remaining Trump lawyers had screamed in anguish.

    Somewhat more seriously, I’m sure I’m not the only one who thought “incriminating statements about what?”  Hopefully, as some have said above, that same thought is rattling around in the head-cavities of a bunch of Republican congresspersons.

  66. 66.

    Jay

    June 29, 2023 at 4:34 pm

    @Calouste:

    The Torygraph and the Daily Flail?

    The Guardian isn’t bad, unless it’s covering Britain,

    The Independent is a little better.

    Here we have the CBC, which is meh, but then we have the Grope and Flail, which is straight up Con propaganda and Billionaire worship.

    We also have The Epoch Times, which is a “free” newspaper at all the transit stops, other than downtown, your only other free reading is condo ads.

    Downtown, you can get the Georgia Straight, which has “Cheap Eats”, (a go to for good affordable food) and of course, Dan Savage.

  67. 67.

    WaterGirl

    June 29, 2023 at 4:34 pm

    @Ken: Yep.  I’m starting to think that some sitting Republican congress critters are gonna go down.

    I think the news last week that some guy whose name I have already forgotten did the plea agreement and the only thing he had to do was give them access to his social media.  The guy was part of the Roger Stone inner circle.

  68. 68.

    Brachiator

    June 29, 2023 at 4:36 pm

    CARROLL UPDATE: Trump moved for summary judgment on Carroll’s first-filed suit, including on the grounds that he had absolute presidential immunity and that his statements were non-actionable opinion. Finding his arguments “without merit,” Judge Lew Kaplan just denied his motion.

    Trump is a weird man-baby and never learns.  He really believes that being president puts him above the law.

    And now he is also claiming that he is one with his base, he is Trump Jesus, and that when he is persecuted, he is taking on the persecutions of those who believe in him.

    Damn, I really want to see Trump convicted just to watch his reaction.

  69. 69.

    narya

    June 29, 2023 at 4:36 pm

    @WaterGirl: Stroyer?

  70. 70.

    rikyrah

    June 29, 2023 at 4:37 pm

    Uppity Faerie Gothmother of Metal and #TeamOrca (@FountainPenDiva) tweeted at 2:06 PM on Thu, Jun 29, 2023:
    Racializing poverty = cutting the social safety net.

    Claim voter fraud = demands for voter suppression laws.

    Racialize drug abuse = harsher sentences.

    As long as those affected are Black and Brown, it’s fine.

    When the chickens come home to roost though…
    (https://twitter.com/FountainPenDiva/status/1674494536821923840?t=Xmf7a2ZdfS_RLggIQIF6Tw&s=03)

  71. 71.

    WaterGirl

    June 29, 2023 at 4:37 pm

    @narya: I’m not sure I ever took note of his name.

  72. 72.

    tobie

    June 29, 2023 at 4:38 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: i just heard Nicolle Wallace go into full Garland-hate mode in her interview with Biden. She turned allegations into fact. I don’t know what decisions the DoJ made, what factors the DoJ had to take into consideration, how long complex investigations take, what influence Trump holdover may have had,  etc…but at least I recognize these are unknowns and that the 2 people who could answer questions (Garland & Monaco) cannot speak in keeping with dept policy.

    What Wallace did was unethical IMO. She, Maddow, Reid, & Melber are showing real illiberal tendencies.

  73. 73.

    prostratedragon

    June 29, 2023 at 4:38 pm

    Another Scott@18: Looks like I need to update my understanding of “surprise witness.”

  74. 74.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    June 29, 2023 at 4:43 pm

    @tobie: She’s pretty unhinged on the topic, and something of a carrier.

  75. 75.

    Frankensteinbeck

    June 29, 2023 at 4:43 pm

    We knew Smith had gamed out the Cannon situation.  ‘Will bring other charges in other locations’ is definitely one possible strategy.

    @moonbat:

    It’s not Trump they’re trying to save, it’s their own asses.

    It’s the principle of IOKIYAR.  They don’t care what he did.  He’s a Republican, so he’s above the law.  Period.

    @trollhattan:

    Is “absolute presidential immunity” anything like double-secret probation?

    It’s “Do you know who I am???”

  76. 76.

    moonbat

    June 29, 2023 at 4:44 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Yeah, Perry. They HAVE to have him and Mastriano fighting over how they were going to overturn PA’s election results as well as plotting before and on 1/6/20.

  77. 77.

    moonbat

    June 29, 2023 at 4:44 pm

    @RevRick: ​
      Bingo!

  78. 78.

    Baud

    June 29, 2023 at 4:44 pm

    @tobie:

    What could Biden say except “I can’t talk about it because DOJ is involved in a pending case.”

  79. 79.

    Jeffro

    June 29, 2023 at 4:45 pm

    @Brachiator:He really believes that being president puts him above the law.

    True, but even worse: he believes that being an ex-president and/or a candidate for president puts him above the law.

    He actually made me laugh at that last stupid speech he gave.  Trump: “and so I’m like hel-LO, Jack Smith, didn’t you hear?  I’m running for pres-i-dent” (in that dumb little sing-song voice of his – SO manly!)

    That’s all it takes, I guess.  Just say you’re running for president, and they can’t indict you for anything!  Sheer genius!

  80. 80.

    MattF

    June 29, 2023 at 4:46 pm

    Tsk. Those darn windows and Russian bank executives. It’s like moths to a flame.

  81. 81.

    tobie

    June 29, 2023 at 4:47 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Sigh. Wallace is a broken record on this topic and has been this way since 2 months into Garland’s tenure. I expected a somewhat more nuanced take from her for some reason.

  82. 82.

    Ken

    June 29, 2023 at 4:47 pm

    One other thought about these new taped incriminating statements: This should peel away a few more potential Trump voters*. As someone said in comments last night, Republican presidential candidate Trump might not be a bad thing, since we already did that and he lost — and that was before January 6, and the documents, and the indictments.

    * Of course the hardcore supporters will accept whatever word-salad excuse he comes up with. I do wonder what it would take for some of them.  “No, Vladimir, I need at least eighteen million for these top-secret classified documents”?

  83. 83.

    japa21

    June 29, 2023 at 4:48 pm

    @tobie:  This is the one area where I have a problem with Wallace. She, like many that comment here, have lost all sense pf rationality on this particular subject.  I think she honestly believes if Trump can be gotten out of the way, the prion disease that has infected the Republican Party, her “former” party, will disappear and Republicans will become respectable again.

  84. 84.

    Elizabelle

    June 29, 2023 at 4:48 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: thank you for the heads up on the Nicole Wallace interview. I enjoyed it. You can see Biden at work, trying to break off the Republicans that are reachable in the Senate. Making it clear that they are not profiles in courage.

  85. 85.

    tobie

    June 29, 2023 at 4:49 pm

    @Baud: that’s exactly what he said. It’s rare to get an interview with the President. I can’t believe Wallace wasted precious minutes asking him to speculate on speculation.

  86. 86.

    Chris Johnson

    June 29, 2023 at 4:49 pm

    @dmsilev: If he’s flipped, along with Meadows, as far as I’m concerned let him go.

    Let him be a double traitor. Never trust him again, his name can be a disgrace, but one time pays for all.

    Beau of the Fifth Column talked about him and what might be going on. If he has in fact flipped, and is cooperating and telling everything, and so has Meadows, you wouldn’t believe the number of traitors who might be really screwed right now.

    A noun, a verb, double treason.

  87. 87.

    Scout211

    June 29, 2023 at 4:51 pm

      
    reactions to the story in The Independent

    If this is correct, then the same thing might be happening here: Trump's team senses that DOJ is moving towards more indictments, and they try to get ahead of the ball by sharing details with the media—including inferences about what DOJ is thinking and planning.— Scott R. Anderson (@S_R_Anders) June 29, 2023

    (Only the reporters know their sources, but these tidbits definitely read like people outside of the special counsel's investigation looking in, not the other way around.) pic.twitter.com/Y3DzDr2eRi— Scott R. Anderson (@S_R_Anders) June 29, 2023

  88. 88.

    tobie

    June 29, 2023 at 4:52 pm

    @Elizabelle: Yes, that & always pointing to the principle at stake. This is what enables Biden to pursue an agenda without being partisan. He’s clear on the values he wants to promote or defend.

  89. 89.

    bbleh

    June 29, 2023 at 4:52 pm

    @Ken: I just felt a tiny disturbance in the Force, as if the few remaining Trump lawyers had screamed in anguish.

    Whoa, hey now, I don’t know if this is serious enough to warrant mixing SF metaphors. I mean, there are limits …

  90. 90.

    Chris Johnson

    June 29, 2023 at 4:53 pm

    @WaterGirl: All of my THIS. It explains a lot of the brazenness. They literally can’t peel off from the doomed strategy. It’s blackmail. They’re literal traitors in their clinging for power.

    It’s more about how many of them get to walk away free men in exchange for breaking the power… it’s inherently political,  and the power has really really shifted.

  91. 91.

    Elizabelle

    June 29, 2023 at 4:53 pm

    @tobie: I missed that part of the interview.  Tuned in too late.  I did get the Saint John McCain wrapup.  I thought Biden did fine.

    I found it really interesting when Biden brought up that the MSM, I took it to mean the “pencil press” direct quote:  “has no editors anymore.” And that he was told by a reporter that “they were advised to build their brands.”

    kind of implied that their brand building involved tearing him down. He kind of segued  into that, from a comment about his unpopularity in the polls.

    I am sick at heart that Biden is not more popular, at least with the morons who answer polls, but his decency and seriousness absolutely showed through in that interview.

  92. 92.

    Baud

    June 29, 2023 at 4:53 pm

    @tobie:

    It’s rare to get an interview with the President. I can’t believe Wallace wasted precious minutes asking him to speculate on speculation.

     
    QFT.

  93. 93.

    raven

    June 29, 2023 at 4:53 pm

    @tobie: Yea, she must have spent an entire minute on it. The Horror.

  94. 94.

    Renie

    June 29, 2023 at 4:53 pm

    @FastEdD:   This concerns me also.  That section of Florida where the trial will be held is rabid MAGA.  All they need is 1 not guilty.  I sure hope they indict trump in another state.

  95. 95.

    Chris Johnson

    June 29, 2023 at 4:54 pm

    @Ken: I said that, loudly. I don’t buy the argument that there’s a danger of Trump running and ‘winning’. That is talk for the purpose of preparing for a coup and having people accept it, and that ship has fucking sailed. Ain’t happening twice, didn’t succeed the first time.

  96. 96.

    Elizabelle

    June 29, 2023 at 4:55 pm

    If anyone ever sees an MSNBC link to the entire Biden interview, I’d be interested in it. Thank you.

  97. 97.

    RaflW

    June 29, 2023 at 4:55 pm

    @MattF: Chris Hayes last night on Rudy Giuliani’s reported (alleged?) proffer agreement with DOJ: “Giuliani is a former federal prosecutor — and he is presumably self-aware enough to know that the only thing worse than facing one indictment is facing multiple indictments.”

  98. 98.

    Brachiator

    June 29, 2023 at 4:56 pm

    @Jeffro:

    True, but even worse: he believes that being an ex-president and/or a candidate for president puts him above the law.

    Yep. Getting indicted and losing the E Jean Carroll case has really got to him. But he responds by making his crazy claims of immunity.

  99. 99.

    bbleh

    June 29, 2023 at 4:56 pm

    @trollhattan: @Frankensteinbeck: didn’t the Clenis Hunt resolve this?  Like, the only thing absolute about “absolute presidential immunity” is that it absolutely doesn’t exist?

  100. 100.

    trollhattan

    June 29, 2023 at 4:56 pm

    Idaho, folks:

    The sheriff of Kootenai County sent out a press release Tuesday, suggesting drug users and criminals should go to Seattle and it would be a “wonderful place to enjoy July 4th celebrations.” The press release from Sheriff Robert B. Norris was directed at “Washington criminals [you know who you are] and Kootenai County taxpayers.”

    Norris said his county is a “preferred destination venue” for residents of Washington for the July 4th festivities, and that his jail has seen a large number of Washington residents being booked. He said that he welcomes Washington residents, but noted Idaho’s “controlled substance” laws are different, from state to state.

    “Fentanyl, methamphetamine, cocaine, are serious felonies in Idaho,” Norris said. “And one will go to jail or prison.” Norris also noted marijuana is illegal in Idaho. [A shame about Washington’s mandatory Fentanyl ingestion for all rules.]

    “This message is clear, if one chooses to possess controlled substances, or engage in any criminal behavior, Seattle, Spokane and the entire state of Washington is a wonderful place to enjoy July 4th celebrations,” Norris said.

    Read the complete statement below:

    Public Service Announcement

    Attention: Washington Criminals and Kootenai County Taxpayers

    Kootenai County Idaho is a preferred destination venue for many Washington residents during July 4th celebrations. In the past, the Kootenai County jail has seen a disproportionate number of jail bookings from our neighbors to the west. Sheriff Robert “Bob” Norris welcomes our law-abiding neighbors, however states that “controlled substance” laws are very different in Idaho than Washington. Fentanyl, methamphetamine, cocaine, are serious felonies in Idaho and one will go to jail or prison. Marijuana is also against the law and is prohibited. Unlike Washington, Idaho law does not restrict Kootenai County Law Enforcement from enforcing the law and taking violators directly to the Kootenai County “Bed and Breakfast,” our county jail.

    It goes on.

    https://news.yahoo.com/idaho-sheriff-implies-drug-users-175623567.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=tw&tsrc=twtr&guccounter=1

  101. 101.

    sdhays

    June 29, 2023 at 4:59 pm

    @Baud: Forget President, with compromises like this, you should be the new Judge Judy.

  102. 102.

    MattF

    June 29, 2023 at 4:59 pm

    @bbleh: It’s the Clinton Exception.

  103. 103.

    Steeplejack

    June 29, 2023 at 5:00 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    Get back to me after they do the umpteen hundred LEOs in Uvalde.

  104. 104.

    sdhays

    June 29, 2023 at 5:01 pm

    @RaflW: I wouldn’t assume anything based on Giuliani’s self-awareness.

  105. 105.

    tobie

    June 29, 2023 at 5:01 pm

    @Elizabelle: even in the portion on McCain, he talked about NATO unity in the context of US leadership. That’s as red, white and blue as things get. Who could oppose it but those who want the US to play second fiddle?

  106. 106.

    David_C

    June 29, 2023 at 5:01 pm

    @Jay:

    I know Trent Crimm used to write for The Independent, so it’s got to be good. ;-)

  107. 107.

    Elizabelle

    June 29, 2023 at 5:05 pm

    @tobie:  I was thinking that interview would play well with anyone who is giving Biden a fair look.  Which might be a lot of those who usually support Republicans, but fascism, sheer meanness, and taking away their daughters’ and wives’ reproductive rights has split them off.

  108. 108.

    JoyceH

    June 29, 2023 at 5:06 pm

    @Jeffro:

    He actually made me laugh at that last stupid speech he gave. Trump: “and so I’m like hel-LO, Jack Smith, didn’t you hear? I’m running for pres-i-dent” (in that dumb little sing-song voice of his – SO manly!)

    Oh, that is SO teeth-gritting, isn’t it? Nails on chalkboard.

    But something that I’ve never seen mentioned, and it irks me, is that another American Norm that Trump has demolished is – length of political speeches! When you reach an hour and a half, you’re into Banana Republican Strongman territory. We used to sort of laugh at those countries!

  109. 109.

    Jay

    June 29, 2023 at 5:08 pm

    @David_C:

    Noice,……..

    great call back.

  110. 110.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    June 29, 2023 at 5:10 pm

    Who plays Jack Smith in the movie?

    I’m thinking George Clooney or Jon Hamm​
     
    eta: Maybe Daniel Craig

  111. 111.

    WaterGirl

    June 29, 2023 at 5:11 pm

    @MattF: Never heard of her.What role did she play?

  112. 112.

    bbleh

    June 29, 2023 at 5:14 pm

    @rikyrah: @WaterGirl: “Jack Smith” sees all.  His gaze penetrates cloud, shadow, earth and flesh. You know of what I speak …

  113. 113.

    MattF

    June 29, 2023 at 5:16 pm

    @WaterGirl: No idea. I don’t want to seem unsympathetic, but I think ‘Russian bank executive’ is not a safe career choice.

  114. 114.

    WaterGirl

    June 29, 2023 at 5:19 pm

    @Scout211: Scott Anderson used to be one of the 4 on the Rational Security podcast. I think his take one this makes a lot of sense.

    it also helps makes sense of the superseding indictments comment being mixed in with charges possibly being filed in a different venue.

  115. 115.

    zhena gogolia

    June 29, 2023 at 5:20 pm

    @David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch: I think Jon Hamm could do it. I have to admit I NEVER watched Mad Men, but I started watching it as my P/T exercise show, and it’s really good! He’s brilliant!

    NOT Daniel Craig. He’d do some terrible American accent like the one in the Benoit Blanc movies.

  116. 116.

    Citizen Alan

    June 29, 2023 at 5:21 pm

    @raven: TBH, while I thought the guy was a coward, I was never clear on what actual crime he was supposed to have committed.

  117. 117.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    June 29, 2023 at 5:25 pm

    I’m thinking John Goodman or John C. Reilly as Bill Barr

  118. 118.

    WaterGirl

    June 29, 2023 at 5:25 pm

    @trollhattan: What’s the point of them doing that?

  119. 119.

    zhena gogolia

    June 29, 2023 at 5:27 pm

    @David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch: Goodman.

  120. 120.

    WaterGirl

    June 29, 2023 at 5:27 pm

    @Steeplejack: Sorry, I read that wrong.  I was thinking Uvalde when I read the first comment.

  121. 121.

    Brachiator

    June 29, 2023 at 5:27 pm

    Comment deleted. Could not get my thoughts together.

  122. 122.

    MattF

    June 29, 2023 at 5:27 pm

    Geraldo Rivera has quit Fox. I was never exactly a fan, but he showed a glimmer of rationality once in a while.

  123. 123.

    Dan B

    June 29, 2023 at 5:28 pm

    @Another Scott:  What happens if the Supremes decide in favor of 303 Creative since the supposed gay wedding was actually a straight married guy with a child?  No gay wedding, no threat to 304 Creative.

  124. 124.

    Martin

    June 29, 2023 at 5:29 pm

    This is basic probability at play. The reason you bring 20 different charges for willful retention, even though they will all be grouped and result in the same sentence is that if the jury rejects 19 of them and accepts one, you get the same sentence as if they accepted all 20. Jack Smith gets 20 saving throws against the jury, so the odds of getting a conviction go up.

    Similarly, stacking this with another judge in another district with a different jury and another 20 charges is even more saving throws against a biased judge, a biased district, a biased jury, a bad ruling on admission of evidence, and so on.

    Stack again with a set of Jan 6 related charges in DC, and you have yet another set of saving throws.

    Law of large numbers says that at least some of these will succeed by virtue of having insulated yourself from the one bad judge or one bad juror by bringing so many different charges in different venues before different juries. And if Cannon wants to slow walk this trial, the NJ judge may choose to schedule first, or the DC one.

    Trump manipulates the courts – picks venues, makes dishonest motions, delays, etc. Jack Smith is using that system against Trump. Good for him.

  125. 125.

    WaterGirl

    June 29, 2023 at 5:30 pm

    @bbleh: He’s not god!

  126. 126.

    bbleh

    June 29, 2023 at 5:31 pm

    @Brachiator: Of course. It’s one thing to expect a law-enforcement officer to “run toward trouble,” and to discipline them administratively if they shirk their duty visibly and without good reason, but to try to hold them criminally liable for not doing so is absurd.

  127. 127.

    Eolirin

    June 29, 2023 at 5:31 pm

    @WaterGirl: Isn’t it just a bad pun? You can’t be behind bars if you’ve been disbarred.

  128. 128.

    Baud

    June 29, 2023 at 5:31 pm

    @zhena gogolia:

    JL Cauvin as Trump, obviously.

  129. 129.

    Baud

    June 29, 2023 at 5:32 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    He’s not god yet!

  130. 130.

    Another Scott

    June 29, 2023 at 5:32 pm

    @Elizabelle:

    YouTube.com – Nicolle Wallace Biden Interview (19:47)

    HTH!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  131. 131.

    WaterGirl

    June 29, 2023 at 5:33 pm

    @Dan B: That makes the SC justices who wanted to take this case look like the fools that they are.

  132. 132.

    bbleh

    June 29, 2023 at 5:34 pm

    @WaterGirl: aw I’m just makin’ fun.  That’s actually a quote from the LOTR movie.  (Or almost, it might be “pierces” and not “penetrates.”)

  133. 133.

    WaterGirl

    June 29, 2023 at 5:34 pm

    @Martin: Agree.  That is surely the game plan.

  134. 134.

    WaterGirl

    June 29, 2023 at 5:35 pm

    @Eolirin: Oh!  I was apparently reading too literally.

  135. 135.

    WaterGirl

    June 29, 2023 at 5:36 pm

    @bbleh: That sounded very bible-y to me! :-)

  136. 136.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    June 29, 2023 at 5:37 pm

    This is one of the more restrained reports I’ve seen on this. I don’t know if Obama is in DC, or his family

    WASHINGTON (WJLA) — D.C. Police and federal law enforcement arrested a man on Thursday near former President Barack Obama’s D.C. home, officials said.

    Taylor Taranto, 37, was Thursday afternoon when he was arrested on a fugitive charge on an existing arrest warrant, D.C. Police said.

    Taranto has a warrant related to his alleged involvement in the Jan. 6 Capitol raid, a source told ABC News.

    At the time of Taranto’s arrest, he allegedly had guns and ammunition in his car as well as materials in his car to make “at least one Molotov cocktail,” law enforcement sources told ABC News

    (ETA) Law enforcement sources said Taranto was not in the protective bubble of the former president and did not get past any checkpoints.

  137. 137.

    Eolirin

    June 29, 2023 at 5:39 pm

    @WaterGirl: Tolkien did spend a lot of time hanging out with CS Lewis, just saying. :)

  138. 138.

    Baud

    June 29, 2023 at 5:39 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Damn.

  139. 139.

    Citizen Alan

    June 29, 2023 at 5:40 pm

    @zhena gogolia: I think the Benoit Blanc accent is almost deliberately bad. IIRC, Rian Johnson toyed with the idea of Blanc having a completely different accent in every future movie but they stuck with that quasi-Cajun thing Craig used in the first two.

  140. 140.

    zhena gogolia

    June 29, 2023 at 5:41 pm

    @Baud: OBVIOUSLY!

  141. 141.

    Eolirin

    June 29, 2023 at 5:41 pm

    @Citizen Alan: I personally find it hilarious, and yeah, it was my understanding it was intentionally over the top.

  142. 142.

    Elizabelle

    June 29, 2023 at 5:42 pm

    @Another Scott:   Thank you!!

  143. 143.

    Spanky

    June 29, 2023 at 5:43 pm

    @rikyrah:

    The 1/6 indictments and the Georgia ones will read like a John Grisham novel Three Stooges script.

  144. 144.

    zhena gogolia

    June 29, 2023 at 5:43 pm

    @Eolirin: Okay. But most Brits are terrible at doing the accent. Exceptions: Colin Firth (who lived here as a teenager) and Theo James. Unlike most people, I don’t think Hugh Laurie does that good a job. Carey Mulligan’s pretty good.

  145. 145.

    Martin

    June 29, 2023 at 5:47 pm

    @bbleh: Except that’s expected in the contract. ‘Run, hide, fight’ is explicitly a set of instructions to buy time for law enforcement to arrive. Teachers are expected to move toward trouble in order to lock and barricade doors, close blinds, etc. Everyone on the other side of this contract is expected to put their life in harms way in a manner, not reflective of whether or not law enforcement *might* arrive, but whether or not they *will* arrive. This is why I said Uvalde would have big consequences because Uvalde broke that contract clean open. Nobody would ever trust law enforcement ever again to respond to a shooting. Run, hide, fight goes out the window.

    If there is no mechanism whereby the presence of guns in our community does not guarantee a response, then the game is up. Nobody is coming to save you. If you are worried about your neighbor with an AR-15, your best bet is to slit his throat when he’s out drunk on his deck.

    I don’t want this guy to be criminally charged either, but legislators aren’t really giving us any alternative, now are they? What choice do we have but to go after what few targets we are allowed still to go after and hope that triggers a different dynamic that gets us there. You’re expecting the community to trust a system that is specifically designed to do harm to do right. That’s not reasonable.

  146. 146.

    Eolirin

    June 29, 2023 at 5:47 pm

    @zhena gogolia: Sure. It’s hard to do accents well.

  147. 147.

    JPL

    June 29, 2023 at 5:48 pm

    @WaterGirl:  I was being sarcastic.   Eastman is going to have a long hot summer.

  148. 148.

    WaterGirl

    June 29, 2023 at 5:48 pm

    @zhena gogolia: @Baud: I mean, who else could it possibly be?

    He’s so good at Trump that I can’t even watch him anymore!

  149. 149.

    JPL

    June 29, 2023 at 5:51 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:  OMG

  150. 150.

    WaterGirl

    June 29, 2023 at 5:51 pm

    @JPL: Play on words between disbarred and being put behind bars?

    I totally missed it!

  151. 151.

    Shana

    June 29, 2023 at 5:51 pm

    @WaterGirl: That reminds me to dig out our copy of 1776 prior to the 4th. It’s a family tradition.

  152. 152.

    karen marie

    June 29, 2023 at 5:52 pm

    I didn’t stop to specifically identify the cheap “Weekly World News” rag but when I was at the grocery store earlier today, I saw a headline that said something to the effect that Trump was negotiating a deal to avoid jail.  Hahaha.  As if.

  153. 153.

    Dan B

    June 29, 2023 at 5:53 pm

    @WaterGirl:  Nobody called the purported gay guy.  Nobody!  Also implies the Supreme’s clerks did no due diligence.

  154. 154.

    Jay

    June 29, 2023 at 5:56 pm

    @Dan B:

    surprise, surprise, surprise,……….

  155. 155.

    Baud

    June 29, 2023 at 5:56 pm

    @Dan B:

    They never do diligence over the facts.

  156. 156.

    Dan B

    June 29, 2023 at 5:58 pm

    @Baud: Well, knock me over with a feather.  ADF is all the facts you need.

  157. 157.

    WaterGirl

    June 29, 2023 at 6:01 pm

    @Dan B: ADF?

  158. 158.

    WaterGirl

    June 29, 2023 at 6:01 pm

    @Baud:

    They never do diligence over the facts.

    For real?  That’s the first thing you do.

  159. 159.

    Baud

    June 29, 2023 at 6:02 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    Not really. The courts rely on the lawyers to convey facts, for the most part.

  160. 160.

    cmorenc

    June 29, 2023 at 6:07 pm

    @Ken:

    One other thought about these new taped incriminating statements: This should peel away a few more potential Trump voters*.

    Don’t get me wrong – I too think it essential for many reasons that Trump be successfully prosecuted and suffer appropriately grave FuckaroundFindOut consequences.

    Nevertheless, let’s not overlook the non-zero possibility that if the criminal charges hanging over Trump do end up knocking him out of the 2024 Presidential race such that the GOP is forced to turn to another nominee – and they end up nominating DeSantis as their second choice – the presence of a “Third Way” candidate on the ballot in enough critical states could result in an even worse nightmare of a DeSantis Presidency.  Here in BJ it’s fashionable to firmly believe he is too repulsive to mainstream voters to possibly win, but recall that in 2016 Trump was such a noxious clown the possibility of his winning seemed extremely unlikely, right up until the final handful of days before election day, and even Trump firmly thought he was going to lose.

  161. 161.

    WaterGirl

    June 29, 2023 at 6:09 pm

    @Baud: With all the crazy MAGA lawyers these days, I wouldn’t take anything submitted as fact by them, until I verified them.

  162. 162.

    Tony Jay

    June 29, 2023 at 6:10 pm

    @Calouste:

    That’s not exactly a high bar to get under. A used pair of paper underpants that have passed through the digestive tract of a sloth and spent six years forming part of the internal wall of a termite mound would be more informative, credible and readable than either the Torygraph or the Daily Heil.

    And on the topic, The Independent isn’t terrible, but it is owned by the Russian oligarch who Flobalob ignored MI5 warnings in order to place in the House of Lords, so trust only if you can verify.

  163. 163.

    MomSense

    June 29, 2023 at 6:21 pm

    More charges is good news.  I would still like to know if some of those scheming Congress critters are being investigated for their roles in the attempt to overturn the election.

  164. 164.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 29, 2023 at 6:23 pm

    @Baud: Also, appellate courts rely on the record from the trial court.  They do not do any fact finding of their own.

  165. 165.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 29, 2023 at 6:26 pm

    @WaterGirl: That simply is not how appellate courts work.  Hell, it’s not how any court in an adversarial system works.  Courts do no separate fact finding.

  166. 166.

    brantl

    June 29, 2023 at 6:28 pm

    @raven: If I was Peterson, and I was the only guy there, and I didn’t go in and engage that guy, knowing what might be happening…….. I would’ve “swallowed my gun”. As should those asshole, useless cops at Uvalde.

  167. 167.

    UncleEbeneezer

    June 29, 2023 at 6:30 pm

    Everyone sit down, you’ll never believe this…

    Trump ‘Standing Order’ to Declassify Not Found by DOJ, Intelligence Agency
    A “standing order” that former President Donald Trump has claimed authorized him to instantly declassify documents removed from the Oval Office could not be found by either the Justice Department or Office of Director of National Intelligence.

    The disclosure by the agencies was made in response to a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit filed last August by Bloomberg News, which sued ODNI and the Justice Department’s national security division for a copy of Trump’s so-called standing order — if one existed.

  168. 168.

    The Thin Black Duke

    June 29, 2023 at 6:36 pm

    @UncleEbeneezer: MORE evidence of a Deep State conspiracy! (pay no attention to that cigarette smoking man behind the curtain)

  169. 169.

    Scout211

    June 29, 2023 at 6:37 pm

    @UncleEbeneezer: Welp, imagine that. Color me not surprised.

    Trump will still insist that his power to declassify is inherent because he is the King the president, now and forever.

  170. 170.

    Dan B

    June 29, 2023 at 6:38 pm

    @WaterGirl:  Alliance Defending Freedom, a big anti LGBTQ organization that sets up lawsuits with Christianists.

  171. 171.

    trollhattan

    June 29, 2023 at 6:39 pm

    @WaterGirl: Guessing the sheriff is testing the waters for a possible congressional run. Certain rural sheriffs have this idea they’re really important, and this one’s in the middle of Idaho Nazi and Klan territory so he knows how to get their votes. And a few laffs at Washington DFHs in the process.

  172. 172.

    brantl

    June 29, 2023 at 6:39 pm

    @JPL: but I’d REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEALLY like both, wouldn’t you?

  173. 173.

    some rando

    June 29, 2023 at 6:47 pm

    the twice-impeached, now twice-indicted former president

    loved reading that so much i wanted to see it again

    sorry not sorry

  174. 174.

    Maxim

    June 29, 2023 at 6:51 pm

    @WaterGirl: Owen Shroyer.

  175. 175.

    JPL

    June 29, 2023 at 6:55 pm

    @brantl:  Once convicted, he’ll be em-barred.

  176. 176.

    Geoduck

    June 29, 2023 at 6:56 pm

    @trollhattan: The sheriff is trolling, and doing it quite successfully, it would appear.

  177. 177.

    brantl

    June 29, 2023 at 6:57 pm

    @raven: There was a lot better to spend it on, bub.

  178. 178.

    brantl

    June 29, 2023 at 6:58 pm

    @bbleh: Only for democrats.

  179. 179.

    WaterGirl

    June 29, 2023 at 7:01 pm

    @MomSense: For what it’s worth, I think they are!

  180. 180.

    raven

    June 29, 2023 at 7:01 pm

    @brantl: I got your Bub. .

  181. 181.

    WaterGirl

    June 29, 2023 at 7:02 pm

    @UncleEbeneezer: Shocker!

    More power to the groups that filed the FOIA request!

  182. 182.

    WaterGirl

    June 29, 2023 at 7:04 pm

    @some rando: Welcome!

  183. 183.

    Another Scott

    June 29, 2023 at 7:04 pm

    Between yesterday and today, there have been three new sealed entries on the docket for the Trump/Nauta case. I have no idea what they are, but you best bet I am watching. pic.twitter.com/NCF1yCzrQD

    — Lisa Rubin (@lawofruby) June 29, 2023

    (via 7veritas4)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  184. 184.

    bbleh

    June 29, 2023 at 7:05 pm

    @Martin: as noted I can see disciplining him administratively, and I can see suing him for breach of contract (although I wonder whether a contract would be upheld that said “you agree you will put your life in danger in case of x,y,z regardless of a,b,c…”), but I can’t see holding him criminally liable.

  185. 185.

    bbleh

    June 29, 2023 at 7:06 pm

    @WaterGirl: you should see the clip.  Christopher Lee is brilliant.

  186. 186.

    bbleh

    June 29, 2023 at 7:10 pm

    @UncleEbeneezer: OMG I am shocked!  You mean, the former (and fer sherr actual) President pulled something totally false out of some orifice that sounded good in the moment to try to squirm out of an uncomfortable situation?  But that is so unlike him…!

  187. 187.

    brantl

    June 29, 2023 at 7:23 pm

    @MattF: to be fair, not very goddamn much.

  188. 188.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 29, 2023 at 7:23 pm

    @bbleh: I agree with you.  As a general rule, you can’t make people risk their lives to try to save someone else through criminal penalties.  Even where the law imposes a duty to protect on people, they are allow pro take their own safety into account.*

    *Not applicable to the military.

  189. 189.

    brantl

    June 29, 2023 at 7:26 pm

    @bbleh: No, it isn’t. They took money, had us put up with their shit, saying that they would do what was needed, and it meant we had to put up with their shit. What was the point of putting up  with their shit, putting up with “support the police”, when they leave our kids to die? Horseshit.

  190. 190.

    UncleEbeneezer

    June 29, 2023 at 7:28 pm

    @WaterGirl: AG and Peter Strzok discussed this on Cleanup On Aisle 45 and the only thing that makes sense to them for such a sweetheart deal is that Shroyer basically told DOJ that he has direct messages (FC, twitter etc.) with some very big names, like big enough for DOJ to be okay with Shroyer not even having to testify.

    (My speculation: Rudy, Stone, Bannon, Flynn, Jones etc.)

  191. 191.

    Maxim

    June 29, 2023 at 7:30 pm

    @UncleEbeneezer: That sounds right. And I sure hope those people all get nailed.

  192. 192.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 29, 2023 at 7:33 pm

    @brantl: With what should cops be charged in this situation?

  193. 193.

    brantl

    June 29, 2023 at 7:34 pm

    @raven: The Horror.? Seriously?

  194. 194.

    brantl

    June 29, 2023 at 7:35 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: Criminal negligence. Actually, they should have criminal negligence, resulting in manslaughter.

  195. 195.

    Martin

    June 29, 2023 at 7:47 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: But there are consequences to not dealing with the systems inability to maintain public order. One of which is you risk people like me who at various points agreed to walk toward that trouble in various ways, who was nearly fired for trying to alert the administration to a potential school shooter (who became a school shooter, and in doing so saved my job) and the next layer of maintainers of the public order will similarly walk away. I was hearing that before Uvalde, I heard it a LOT louder after Uvalde.

    So, okay, this guy isn’t accountable, but neither is any layer above him – the legislature, the people who enforce whether or not a given person should be able to get a gun, and so on. As you absolve layer after layer, eventually you run out of layers to hold to account, and so the public is forced to do it directly. Rich people do that easily – move their kids to private schools with security forces, parents start bringing their guns to pick up and drop off, and so on.

  196. 196.

    bbleh

    June 29, 2023 at 7:48 pm

    @brantl: look, I don’t disagree with the outrage at the unfairness — I can’t imagine what it’s like to be a parent in such a situation — but it seems to me that to hold an individual criminally liable would be to make him the scapegoat for a political and civic failure.  That one guy is not responsible for “support the police,” nor is he responsible for the decision to put an older, near-retired (? or already retired?) deputy in a position to have to deal with what by then was a well-known, if remote, possibility at a school (or club or mall or or or), in effect making him little more than a token gesture. To hold him criminally responsible would be to make him the scapegoat for both his superiors and (much more importantly) the failure of our political system to deal with — very much on the contrary, to glorify — random armed violence and the widespread availability of powerful weaponry to commit it, and that would be a travesty.

    And yes, I understand that the ultimate result is that nobody is held responsible.  (Although I guess I would ask, if he could be held individually responsible, why not his boss too?  Why shouldn’t the county or the school district be responsible for failing to provide the necessary security, eg one or more SWAT-trained and -equipped officer at every school.  And ditto every mall.  And club.  And church/synagogue.)  I just can’t see singling him out — the bottom guy in the chain of responsibility — just to put it on somebody.

  197. 197.

    UncleEbeneezer

    June 29, 2023 at 8:18 pm

    News: Former Trump campaign official Mike Roman is cooperating with prosecutors from special counsel Jack Smith’s team in the ongoing criminal probe related to efforts to overturn the 2020 election, two sources tell me

    .

  198. 198.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 29, 2023 at 8:34 pm

    @brantl: I don’t think you have a viable criminal case.

    @Martin: We aren’t saying that there shouldn’t be consequences for the guy.  We are disputing whether consequences should be criminal.

  199. 199.

    Betty

    June 29, 2023 at 9:09 pm

    @moonbat: In case the Feds don’t indict Perry, I think Rick Coplen is putting togrther a much more effective campaign this time to take hin out in ’24.

  200. 200.

    Ruckus

    June 29, 2023 at 11:18 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    In the navy I was, when assigned to damage control, the entry man. That’s the first in, a flooding or a fire or whatever and someone has to go in. That was what I was supposed to do. Bravery is not really the question. It is from the outside, it isn’t on the inside. Someone has to do this and it almost always is dangerous if it is an actual emergency. It isn’t a choice, or at least it wasn’t in that situation, it is a part of the whole. It didn’t matter if I didn’t like it or didn’t want to be that person. Now I never had to actually do that so I have zero idea what it would be like but I’ve been that guy. You really can’t think about it if you are that person, you do what you have to do and you get to think about it later, or not at all.

  201. 201.

    Ramona

    June 30, 2023 at 12:04 am

    @karen marie: The Art of the Plea Deal…

  202. 202.

    Ruckus

    June 30, 2023 at 12:12 am

    @trollhattan:

    That’s because you are a sane(ish) human being. Something SFB is nowhere close to. Like not even on the same planet not close to.

  203. 203.

    Ruckus

    June 30, 2023 at 12:20 am

    @japa21:

    Republicans will become respectable again.

    I’m sorry, when were they ever respectable? Less obvious sure, I’ll buy that. But respectable? No sale, no how, no way. Not in my 7 decades.

  204. 204.

    Donatellonerd

    June 30, 2023 at 3:06 am

    @Omnes Omnibus: would it be possible to file professional misconduct charges against the lawyers? (i used to be a lawyer long ago)

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