Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

It is possible to do the right thing without the promise of a cookie.

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

These are not very smart people, and things got out of hand.

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

Let’s not be the monsters we hate.

I really should read my own blog.

The unpunished coup was a training exercise.

White supremacy is terrorism.

Celebrate the fucking wins.

It may be funny to you motherfucker, but it’s not funny to me.

Their boy Ron is an empty plastic cup that will never know pudding.

Our job is not to persuade republicans but to defeat them.

Speaker Mike Johnson is a vile traitor to the House and the Constitution.

The fight for our country is always worth it. ~Kamala Harris

It’s the corruption, stupid.

Someone should tell Republicans that violence is the last refuge of the incompetent, or possibly the first.

Giving in to doom is how authoritarians win.

Well, whatever it is, it’s better than being a Republican.

Hell hath no fury like a farmer bankrupted.

“But what about the lurkers?”

Jesus, Mary, & Joseph how is that election even close?

Anyone who bans teaching American history has no right to shape America’s future.

“I was told there would be no fact checking.”

Republicans are the party of chaos and catastrophe.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Open Thread (and Legal Zoom Reminder – Sunday 3 pm Eastern)

Open Thread (and Legal Zoom Reminder – Sunday 3 pm Eastern)

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This post is in: 

This is a totally open thread, but I am sneaking in a quick reminder that TODAY (Sunday) is the Legal Zoom with Imm!

The zoom link I sent everyone last week works for the zoom this week, as well.

If you have lost the link or never asked for it at all, please send me an email message!

I made peach-cherry-lemon popsicles yesterday, and I ate my first one last night.  Turns out that I read 4.5 Tablespoons and my brain turned it into 4.5 ounces, which is double that.  oops!  No one could say that this batch of popsicles is too sweet!

*and it’s a recipe that I originally made up.  duh.

Open thread.

Reader Interactions

89Comments

  1. 1.

    UncleEbeneezer

    So did everyone see the disinformation yesterday of people posting fake videos purporting to be Palm Springs getting ravaged by tropical storm Hilary?  Problem is, the storm hadn’t even arrived yet.  I think it was some sort of partially organized campaign of right-wing trolls that started because of their knee-jerk reaction to the name “Hilary” and the fact that they like to get their jollies trying to sow distrust in public orgs like the Weather Service.  These people are so damn pathetic.  I’m guessing they are the weirdos who actually follow Musk.

  5. 5.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @UncleEbeneezer:

    Relatedly, my RWNJ brother’s latest conspiracy theory is something about Oprah Winfrey buying up vast tracts of land on Maui and then starting fires so that everyone’s property except hers burns down. Just … smh.

  7. 7.

    Redshift

    Fuck Joe Manchin

    (From yesterday’s WaPo, gift link.)

    Among other assholishness, he’s claiming that Biden is “misleading” the public in saying the IRA is about climate and clean energy:

    “This bill that I wrote was done about energy security — truly producing more gas, more oil, more coal, than we have in the past consistently,” he said on the radio in West Virginia. “I think the business of politics … has gotten so absolutely toxic that he’s playing to the base.”

    I know you are, but what am I?…

  8. 8.

    NotMax

    Maui update (excerpts>.

    Olinda fire 85% contained, 1,081 acres burned. The Maui Fire Department is assisting State Division of Forestry and Wildfire with this joint firefighting effort. A total of 27 firefighters, six engines, and other equipment are engaged in the battle. The perimeter is holding, with suppression focusing on extinguishing scattered hotspots, mainly in gulch areas.

    Kula fire 80% contained, 202 acres burned.

    Lahaina fire 89% contained, 2,170 acres burned.
    .
    Currently, the disaster area is restricted to authorized personnel only. At this time, media and residents are not allowed in the disaster area as significant hazards exist. For those accessing areas outside of the disaster area, the county urges individuals to continue to avoid all burn areas and do not enter any areas where structures were burned until clearance is received from authorities.

    Dangers include ash that may contain toxic and cancer-causing chemicals including asbestos, arsenic, and lead and debris including broken glass, exposed electrical wires, nails, wood, plastics, and other objects. Unstable buildings and structures may contain hazardous materials and could collapse causing injury. For those who can return to their properties County officials urge all individuals to utilize Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) .

    Recovery and other emergency response operators have been instructed to report any stray animal sightings to the Maui County Emergency Operations Center. The information will then be provided to Humane Society experts, so they can safely support the reported animals. The Maui Humane Society continues to search the perimeters of the affected area.
    .
    Remnant moisture from post-tropical cyclone Fernanda is forecast to approach the state starting late Sunday, with the highest rainfall totals for windward and mountain slopes of Maui County expected to occur between Monday afternoon and Tuesday morning, according to the National Weather Service. With the possibility of heavy rains and flooding on the horizon, the US Coast Guard and Hawaiʻi Department of Transportation have worked to deploy storm drain inlet protection devices and absorbent booms in several areas impacted by wildfires, including eight storm drain outfalls entering the ocean within the impacted areas of Lahaina town.

    Also,

    Surviving pets and animals from the burn site may have burns, physical injuries and exposure to hazardous materials and may have inhaled, absorbed through injured skin, or ingested ash and hazardous substances, such as asbestos or hazardous chemicals.

    If you encounter a stray animal impacted by a fire, it should first be stabilized if severely dehydrated, unable to walk, in shock or appears otherwise severely ill. Once stabilized, pets and animals should be decontaminated by responders, including bathing with water and a mild shampoo until all visible ash is removed.

    After decontamination, some pets may need to be hospitalized, but most will be able to be returned to the owner or to an emergency pet shelter.

    Once properly decontaminated, the pets are not hazardous to their owners or handlers. Pets should be observed closely for several weeks and treated by a veterinarian if signs of illness are observed. While there could be long-term health consequences, most surviving pets will be able to live normal lives.
    [snip]
    At shelters, the American Red Cross is working on pet reunification efforts. There are currently 71 pets housed with families in non-congregate shelters. For families who want to relinquish their pets, Hawaii Animal Rescue Foundation is coordinating taking animals to no-kill shelters. Source

  9. 9.

    WaterGirl

    @SiubhanDuinne: I’m sorry.  I laughed out loud at how ridiculous that is.

    So sad that your brother believes all that crap.  As sharp and smart as you are, I have to think he is an intelligent person, IQ-wise, at least.  How can be believe this stuff?

    How can he not be someone who would verify crap like that before he believes it.

  11. 11.

    Alison Rose

    @UncleEbeneezer: I’d imagine it’s some wishful thinking because they’re hoping to see places get destroyed so they can blame it on our Democratic state government. Meanwhile, that government has been doing everything possible to prepare and get info and aid out to folks who need it.

  13. 13.

    NotMax

    @Redshift

    According to Dolt 45, green energy initiatives are a direct cause allowing Russia to wage war on Ukraine.

    Not going to link, you’ll have to take my word on this utter non sequitur claptrap he spat out recently.

  15. 15.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    I assume Legal Zoom will mention that now-famous Atlantic article by Luttig and Tribe, that says the Constitution makes TFG ineligible for office independent of any criminal convictions.

    Alas, I probably can’t make the Zoom, but I assume the BJ legal minds will have made a binding ruling by the end of the afternoon, and that will be that.

  16. 16.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @Alison Rose: Did we see this one evolve in real time? Last week it appeared we’d watched “rich people want to buy up all the burned out land and take over the island” (true) morph into “rich people set the fires to burn people out so they could buy out all the land” (nutballs).

    Short step from there to “Oprah set the fires”. Because if you believe in “rich people set the fires” but also “rich people are rich because they are blessed by God” then you have to lay the conspiracy on Oprah. Or George Soros. Certainly not a sweet humanitarian like Musk.

  17. 17.

    WaterGirl

    @SiubhanDuinne: The first question mark was because I didn’t know they had a house there.

    The next two were because how did I not know that?

    But I am totally onboard with mocking them for thinking that one of the 50 states is exotic. :-)

  18. 18.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @WaterGirl:

    He’s not stupid. He just believes, and propagates, a lot of stupid stuff.

    I’ll give him this, though. A few days ago he wrote something racist in an all-family email. I called him out on it and he immediately responded “I apologize. You’re right.”  So he’s capable of recognising the offensiveness and bullshit occasionally.

  20. 20.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Alison Rose: There’s a big push of the idea that Biden/Dems somehow failed Maui.  And sadly, it’s not just MAGAssholes and Russian bots spreading it, but as usual a bunch of VeryOnline Progressives etc., are helping to spread it too.

  28. 28.

    smith

    @SiubhanDuinne: I just looked it up. This is the quote:

     “I know his grandmother lives in Hawaii and I know Hawaii is a state, but it has the look of him going off to some sort of foreign, exotic place.” Roberts continued: “He should be in Myrtle Beach, and, you know, if he’s going to take a vacation at this time.”

    The Myrtle Beach comment tells me that she thought he wasn’t acting white enough.

  35. 35.

    Scout211

    Since we’re discussing Maui, have you seen this article about one house that was spared from the fire? What Saved The ‘Miracle House’ In Lahaina?

    The photo of the one house that still stands, among blocks and blocks of rubble is striking.  Reading the story, the theory is that the renovations to the property and the landscaping changes may have saved the house.  It has some interesting tips for all of us who live in fire zones.

  36. 36.

    Another Scott

    @SiubhanDuinne: Cokie’s father was Hale Boggs – a long time Democratic Rep from New Orleans.  Her lane is old-school white-male conservative southern Democrats.  (Frequently known now as MAGA Republicans.)

    That’s her lane, and she’s always in it, and is not shy about criticizing others who aren’t in that lane with her.

    IMO.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  37. 37.

    oldgold

    I have been busy at work over the recent past.  Some of what I have been doing involves an insane  book banning statute recently enacted by the Tall Corn State’s MAGA Solons.  As such, I missed what the zoom meeting scheduled for this afternoon is about.  After it is over, will there be a post reflecting what was discussed?

  40. 40.

    Ruckus

    I will try to make the zoom today, didn’t get home in time last week…

    Now if I don’t have electricity….

    It is raining here in the San Gabriel Valley, and has been for the last couple of hours. It is expected to rain solid for the next 36 hours. It is expected to rain about 3 times the rate it is now, later in the day. That tells me that the street out in front of my apt. should be curb to curb full of the runoff.

  41. 41.

    Redshift

    @WaterGirl:

    But smart people tend to be inquisitive. If something seems outlandish, check the facts.

    Confirmation bias is prevalent among smart people, too. We’re all less likely to check things that agree with what we already believe.

    It would be nice if only stupid people fell for this stuff, but there’s plenty of evidence that’s not what distinguishes who does and doesn’t.

  43. 43.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @karen marie: Cornel.  They’ll put their support behind Cornel West.    He’s the better fit for them because he:

    • Hates Obama/Dem Party (and generally blames Dems not Republicans)

    • Pushes Class, Not Race narrative, despite his early works on Racism.

    • Anti-War (likes to blame NATO expansion and criticize Ukraine but not Russia)

    • Let’s DSA types pretend they are so much more “down” with Black Liberation than the rest of us, sell-out Obama/Biden voters.

  45. 45.

    Redshift

    @UncleEbeneezer:

    There’s a big push of the idea that Biden/Dems somehow failed Maui.

    Yeah, one thing I saw a lot (in replies to tweets) was how insulting it is to people in Maui that Biden is only giving them $700 each.

    It’s a mix of dishonest people pretending they don’t know that’s just the immediate payment for living expenses, not the only disaster aid, and stupid people believing them.

  46. 46.

    H.E.Wolf

    @UncleEbeneezer: I think it was some sort of partially organized campaign of right-wing trolls that started because of their knee-jerk reaction to the name “Hilary”​

     
    And they don’t worry about little things like how to spell someone’s name correctly.

    As Kay might say: they’re low-quality hires. :-)​

  48. 48.

    Miss Bianca

    @Redshift: Oh, and right on schedule, this headline pops up from  WaPo (can we call them “FtFWaPo” yet?):

    Ahead of Maui visit, Biden’s governmental and personal response scrutinized

    Yeah, right, assholes. “Scrutinized” by whom?

  49. 49.

    Alison Rose

    @UncleEbeneezer: Do they also love people who don’t pay taxes and child support? (Probably do!)

    Records show West owes nearly $466,000 in federal income taxes from 2013 until 2017. This came after he accrued (and later repaid) a debt of nearly $725,000 from 1998-2005, and more than $34,000 in 2008, according to tax records in Mercer County, New Jersey – where he owns a home.
    Additionally, West has an outstanding $49,500 child support judgement from 2003, records show.

  50. 50.

    Ruckus

    @WaterGirl:

    Some are leaders. Fewer are strong leaders. The majority are followers. It’s easier, it is what they learned from their parents. Who learned it from their parents. You can see where this is going….

    As much as most humans think they are independent thinkers and not followers, that’s not the way it works for many. Think January 6. Think of the people that think that SFB is a world leader. But he’s not, he’s a follower who put himself in a leadership position and got followers to elect him to a job that he was/is 10000000% unable to accomplish, and it’s because he thinks, such as it is, that he is finally a leader. He’s not even close, never has been, never will be. He is a pompous, arrogant follower, play acting (not even close to actually) a supposed leadership role. His only direction is ME-ME-ME….. the same direction he’s played his entire life. I say played because he’s never grown up, never known how to be an actual adult. It’s why he’s so bad at play acting as an adult.

    Think of him as a 280 lb, 77 yr old child and see how that fits.

  53. 53.

    Jeffro

    Folks, this is hysterically funny: GOP voters/Fox News viewers are so propagandized to think that Biden can barely string a sentence together, they no longer care about “electability” – ANYONE can beat Joe Biden!  So why not go with trump…AGAIN??!?

    In other words, by running “BIDEN SENILE DROOLING IDIOT” stories every half hour, Fox probably shot itself in the foot re: getting rid of trump(!)

    Gov. Ron DeSantis of Florida has run into a surprising buzz saw in his bid to sell himself as the Republican Party’s most electable standard-bearer in 2024 — and it has more to do with President Biden than it does with Donald J. Trump.
    For months, Republican voters have consumed such a steady diet of clips of Mr. Biden stumbling, over words and sandbags, that they now see the 80-year-old Democratic incumbent as so frail that he would be beatable by practically any Republican — even a four-times-indicted former president who lost the last election.

    As Mr. Trump’s rivals take the stage for the first debate of the 2024 primaries on Wednesday, the perceived weaknesses of Mr. Biden have undercut one of the core arguments that Mr. DeSantis and others have made from the start: that the party must turn the page on the past and move beyond Mr. Trump in order to win in 2024.

    The focus on “electability” — the basic notion of which candidate has the best shot of winning a general election — was most intense in the aftermath of the disappointing 2022 midterms. Republicans were stung by losses of Trump-backed candidates in key swing states like Arizona, Michigan and Pennsylvania. And the issue offered a way to convince a Republican electorate still very much in the thrall of Mr. Trump to consider throwing its lot in with a fresh face in 2022. It was a permission slip to move on.

    But nine months later, interviews with pollsters, strategists, elected officials and Republican voters in early-voting states show that the dim Republican opinion of Mr. Biden’s mental faculties and political skills has complicated that case in deep and unexpected ways.

    “I mean, I would hope anybody could beat Joe Biden at this point,” said Heather Hora, 52, as she waited in line for a photo with Mr. Trump at an Iowa Republican Party dinner, echoing a sentiment expressed in more than 30 interviews with Iowa Republicans in recent weeks.

    Mr. Trump’s rivals are still pushing an electability case against the former president, but even their advisers and other strategists acknowledge that the diminished views of Mr. Biden have sapped the pressure voters once felt about the need to nominate someone new. When Republican primary voters in a recent New York Times/Siena College poll were asked which candidate was better able to beat Mr. Biden, 58 percent picked Mr. Trump, while 28 percent selected Mr. DeSantis.

    “The perception that Biden is the weakest possible candidate has lowered the electability question in the calculus of primary voters,” said Josh Holmes, a Republican strategist and a longtime adviser to Senator Mitch McConnell, the Republican minority leader.

     

    Unreal.

    Disinformation, much like great wealth, distorts our politics and weakens our democracy.

  54. 54.

    WaterGirl

    @SiubhanDuinne: I totally understood your reference!  I was just clarifying that my comment hadn’t actually been mocking her for that.  It was me being surprised they had a house in Hawaii and wondering how I didn’t know tht.

  55. 55.

    Kelly

    @Scout211: Regarding the Maui miracle house I believe the Louis Pasteur quote “Chance favors the prepared mind” applies. A fire resistant margin around your home can help. We have a gravel path around our home. There’s a lot of luck. In the 2020 Beachie fire plenty of fire resistant homes burned and yet our adjacent neighbor with a cedar roof, cedar siding and a cedar deck, all dry as toast survived. Completely surrounded by ashes when we got home.

  57. 57.

    UncleEbeneezer

    For anyone who missed it, here is the clip of Hillary on Maddow preaching the truth about Trump and Republicans, in response to a question about the Women’s World Cup. They hate America because they believe only Cis, Het, Christian, White People (especially Men) are ENTITLED to rule and nobody else should have a say.

    This has ALWAYS been the fundamental belief of US Conservatives, whether they were Confederates, Southern Dems opposed to Reconstruction/Civil Rights, John Birch Society nut-jobs, Orange County/Reagan Republicans, Folksy W fans and now Trumpers.

  58. 58.

    Baud

    @UncleEbeneezer:

     sadly, it’s not just MAGAssholes and Russian bots spreading it, but as usual a bunch of VeryOnline Progressives etc.,

    Is there no common label we can use for shorthand?

  61. 61.

    Redshift

    @Jeffro:

    Disinformation, much like great wealth, distorts our politics and weakens our democracy.

    In some ways, this is part of the constant wingnut media drumbeat that everyone believes the Democratic president is a disaster for the country. Believing they’re the majority is sometimes motivating, and sometimes it convinces them it must be in the bag and reduces motivation.

  63. 63.

    Sister Golden Bear

    California Shop Owner Murdered Over Rainbow Flag

    All of the haters who’ve calling for LGBTQ+ people to be eliminated, and who have been stoking stochastic terrorism, have blood on their hands.

    Now they’re going after allies as well. A beloved boutique owner in Lake Arrowhead, CA was shot and killed after the suspect made derogatory comments about a rainbow flag outside her store.

    Rest in Power Laura Ann Carleton.

  64. 64.

    Ruckus

    @UncleEbeneezer:

    This has ALWAYS been the fundamental belief of US Conservatives, whether they were Confederates, Southern Dems opposed to Reconstruction/Civil Rights, John Birch Society nut-jobs, Orange County/Reagan Republicans, Folksy W fans and now Trumpers.

    They are followers. Even those at the higher end of the food chain. They want to conserve the pecking order. They wouldn’t know a leader if HE passed out and fell on them. They don’t want self determination, they want someone to follow. But they ALL want someone to follow. So someone with money must be a good follow, because they have what followers want, someone that manages to be wealthy must not be looking for someone to follow. But that’s not how actual leadership works. It’s not force, brutal or not, either. It’s not just confidence. It is knowledge. Knowledge of how things and people work. Knowledge to teach someone how to do something and do it reasonably well. Knowledge that we all follow at some point, but also the knowledge to lead when necessary.

  66. 66.

    Scout211

    This leaked out to ABC News this morning:

    Appearing to contradict former President Donald Trump’s primary public defense in the classified documents case, former White House chief of staff Mark Meadows has told special counsel Jack Smith’s investigators that he could not recall Trump ever ordering, or even discussing, declassifying broad sets of classified materials before leaving the White House, nor was he aware of any “standing order” from Trump authorizing the automatic declassification of materials taken out of the Oval Office, sources familiar with the matter tell ABC News.

  67. 67.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Baud: I doubt it.  Every attempted shorthand term/phrase to refer to this group, will get repeated responses nit-picking the language.  I think it’s mainly because the people I’m referring to come from many different groups and people who aren’t assholes in those same groups don’t-want their groups/themselves associated with them.  If you say “BernieBros” you get knee-jerk #NotAll Bernie Supporters responses.  If you use “Leftists/Progressives” then the debate starts over what makes someone a “Real” one of those.  Etc.  And they sometimes have differing partisan affiliations, different priorities  and even different behaviors (some push Anti-Vax bullshit but not Putin-love, and vice versa) but there is enough overlap that they are all a part of a problematic coalition.  At the end of the day, I think everyone reading this knows exactly the people to which I am referring even if the group itself is hard to name or draw a sharp boundary around it.

  68. 68.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @WaterGirl: Thanks for the signal boost :). It’s a reminder of what a total Bad-Ass Hillary is and has always been and probably why she’s been so hated by the other side.  She’s smarter, tougher and unafraid to speak the truth to their bullshit.

  70. 70.

    Another Scott

    @Ruckus:

    Obligatory: Aphelis.net:

    It’s hard to quarrel with that ancient justification of the free press: “America’s right to know.” It seems almost cruel to ask, ingenuously, ”America’s right to know what, please? Science? Mathematics? Economics? Foreign languages?”

    None of those things, of course. In fact, one might well suppose that the popular feeling is that Americans are a lot better off without any of that tripe.

    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”

    ☛ Newsweek: “A Cult of Ignorance” by Isaac Asimov, January 21, 1980, p. 19. PDF (1 page image).

    Yup.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  71. 71.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Eolirin: That’s pretty accurate.  But many times it includes Centrists too, who I wouldn’t categorize as “Leftys.”  That’s the problem, the group has people from so many factions that it’s hard to pinpoint them accurately with any phrase.

  72. 72.

    Eolirin

    @Another Scott: Asimov got it wrong; a more accurate line would be “my ignorance is better than your knowledge, and I will kill anyone I need to to prove it”

  74. 74.

    jimmiraybob

    @Baud: ​
     

    “Is there no common label we can use for shorthand?”

    Authoritarians. Look up “authoritarian personality” (followers/leaders).

  75. 75.

    opiejeanne

    @Sister Golden Bear: Devastating, partially because I know where that is and the community around it.

    The sign says it was established in 2013 but I think that’s the overall company (she owns a shop in Studio City with the same name) or maybe the shop was in a different place in the area, because it wasn’t in that space when we sold our cabin in Blue Jay in 2019. That space was empty when we left that community for the last time.  We spent a lot of time in that hardware store two doors down and Timberline in the Glen three doors down, especially when we were getting the cabin ready to sell.

  76. 76.

    H.E.Wolf

    @UncleEbeneezer: ​@H.E.Wolf: One L, Two L’s, close enough!!

    The late, great Ogden Nash had this to say about L’s:

    The one-L lama,
    He’s a priest.
    The two-L llama,
    He’s a beast.
    And I will bet
    A silk pajama
    There isn’t any
    Three-L lllama.

    [The anthology for kids which included this poem had a note from the editor: a three-L lllama is a very big fire.]​​

  79. 79.

    Geminid

     

     

    @Baud: Some people use “Dirtbag Left” to describe this crowd. I remember a New Mexico jackal describing them this way. She had some first hand experience with this type when she was a Democratic county chairman, I believe.

    My impression is that there has been some separation on the “Left” in the last 3 or 4 years, with the more responsible ones aligning with the current Democratic Party and a smaller group staying in opposition. Some of the latter group hoped to transform the party into a Left party, but now have a sour grapes attitude.

  80. 80.

    Citizen Alan

    @WaterGirl: I will never forgive the people I hold responsible for hillary clinton not becoming president. I will hate them from beyond the grave.

  83. 83.

    Anyway

    @lollipopguild:  What was so offensive about Cokie Roberts’ description was that Obama had grown up in Hawaii, had an aging grandmother there — it was his home. She had the gall to question his spending time there. That led to my final break with NPR. Haven’t had it in my car shortcuts since then. Never have them on. Fuck em.

  84. 84.

    TerryC

    @Citizen Alan: My next granddaughter is to be named such as results in the initials HRC. I’m keeping my mouth shut until maybe about when she turns 1. Daughter-in-law not a Hillary fan.

  87. 87.

    Geminid

    @Baud: I see that now. I was just thinking about the left component of that grouping.

    The people I was talking about generally have fallen into the anti-NATO, anti-Ukraine camp. Part of that is an oppositional stance towards the Democratic Party. A lot of the same people complaining now about aid going to Ukraine instead of Hawaii were blowing the East Palestine trainwreck up into another Chernobyl. They probably are responding to Russian influencers, but they have a predisposion to go along with that stuff. Some of this probably comes from the loose network built out by the Russians for the 2016 presidential campaign.

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