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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Not a Good Day for Trump, Part Infinity + 1

Not a Good Day for Trump, Part Infinity + 1

by WaterGirl|  September 8, 20233:57 pm| 125 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads

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A billion here, a billion there, pretty soon you are talking about real money!

New court filing: Trump's net worth was inflated by billions *more* than what the New York AG's office initially found.

Citing an extensive new analysis, James' office found Trump's net worth in any given year between 2011 and 2021 was overstated by $1.9 billion to $3.6 billion.

— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) September 8, 2023

Totally open thread!

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    125Comments

    1. 1.

      Sister Golden Bear

      September 8, 2023 at 4:04 pm

      But who’s counting?

      Reply
    2. 2.

      Jesse

      September 8, 2023 at 4:04 pm

      Itbh this doesn’t interest me. I thought it was sort of understood that Trump’s net worth isn’t even possibly close to what he claims it is (don’t know and do t care about any particular number). And if Trump did have big bucks at one point, the working assumption is that it’s crooked money and rests on low wages, non-payment of bills, etc. and with the Russia thing, yet another working assumption is that he’s just being paid by Putin.

      Reply
    3. 3.

      MattF

      September 8, 2023 at 4:06 pm

      The big question, needless to say, is whether TFG’s net worth is greater than zero. The over/under wager in this case takes on metaphysical implications.

      Reply
    4. 4.

      Scout211

      September 8, 2023 at 4:06 pm

      And also, the trial will last 3 months. It’s not like he’s busy doing thing else right now, right?  LOL  Link

      The trial for New York Attorney General Letitia James’ $250 million civil fraud case against former President Donald Trump, his family members and his company will last almost three months, the judge presiding over the case said Friday.

      “The trial is scheduled to begin on October 2, 2023 and to end by December 22, 2023,” Judge Arthur Engoron wrote in an order laying out scheduling and administrative plans for the case, which alleges that Trump, his children Don Jr. and Eric Trump, and the Trump Organization had for years been inflating their worth to the tune of billions of dollars in financial statements to banks and insurers.

      Added, the pre-trial Trump org. defense in the court of public opinion and social media (which is his usual pre-trial protocol):

      Trump has denied any wrongdoing, and maintains the suit is part of a partisan “witch hunt” against him.

      In a court filing on Friday, lawyers for the Trumps said “there was no fraud. There are no victims.” They argued that much of the case should be dismissed because “despite the NYAG’s politically charged insults and accusations, President Trump (and all of the Defendants) has a great case centered around a phenomenal corporate empire worth billions of dollars more than the NYAG has falsely claimed, very little debt, significant cash and liquidity, powerful disclaimer clauses, paid off loans, and banks extremely pleased with highly profitable loan transactions.”

      Reply
    5. 5.

      Bill Arnold

      September 8, 2023 at 4:10 pm

      Interesting. Mainly because it will absolutely get D.J. Trump extremely riled up, since his sense of self is so tied to his sense of wealth. He believes that the worth of a person is highly correlated with their financial net worth, so she is insulting his worth.
      I wonder if he will be making demands to his lawyers to sue her.

      Reply
    6. 6.

      trollhattan

      September 8, 2023 at 4:13 pm

      James’ office found Trump’s net worth in any given year between 2011 and 2021 was overstated by $1.9 billion to $3.6 billion.

      And he only claimed $1.8 billion. Hey-ohh! {rimshot}

      Michelle Wolf’s WHCD monologue remains the best summation of Trump I’ve ever seen, and boy did she drill into the Trump is broke meme.

      Reply
    7. 7.

      Mr. Bemused Senior

      September 8, 2023 at 4:13 pm

      Reminder: The Vanity Fair article with the report of Eric Trump [he denied it]

      “So when I got in the cart with Eric,” Dodson says, “as we were setting off, I said, ‘Eric, who’s funding? I know no banks—because of the recession, the Great Recession—have touched a golf course. You know, no one’s funding any kind of golf construction. It’s dead in the water the last four or five years.’ And this is what he said. He said, ‘Well, we don’t rely on American banks. We have all the funding we need out of Russia.’ I said, ‘Really?’ And he said, ‘Oh, yeah. We’ve got some guys that really, really love golf, and they’re really invested in our programs. We just go there all the time.’ Now that was three years ago, so it was pretty interesting.”

      Don Jr., in 2008

      “Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets. We see a lot of money pouring in from Russia.”

      Reply
    8. 8.

      cain

      September 8, 2023 at 4:13 pm

      We’re gonna have to change our seasons

      spring, summer, FAFO, winter

      Reply
    9. 9.

      Old School

      September 8, 2023 at 4:13 pm

      @Scout211:

      “The trial is scheduled to begin on October 2, 2023 and to end by December 22, 2023,”

      His schedule is probably pretty open during that time frame.  The primaries aren’t until next year.

      Reply
    10. 10.

      VOR

      September 8, 2023 at 4:14 pm

      In related news, water is wet and the Pope is Catholic. But this is important because the legend of Trump’s wealth is part of the attraction for his cult. Showing he is lying about money might be one of the few things which could break the myth.

      Reply
    11. 11.

      smith

      September 8, 2023 at 4:14 pm

      @MattF: As long as the Goobers keep sending him their Social Security, he will be able to pay the bills. On the other hand, there are rumors that the reason the DC grand jury is still meeting is to consider wire fraud charges against him due to his fundraising on the Big Lie. As I understand it, if found guilty on that, he might have to pay those donors back.

      Reply
    12. 12.

      Sister Golden Bear

      September 8, 2023 at 4:15 pm

      In this week’s #TransGenocide news…

      Slate looks at the human impact of Florida’s ban on trans healthcare, which is forcing people to detransition by law—forcing trans people not to exist as trans people.

      Erin in the Morning dives into how anti-trans bigots are only able to keep producing the same handful of de-transitioners, despite claims — mindlessly repeated by the media — that up to 80% to 90% trans people de-transition. (Narrator voice: The vast majority of the estimated 1% of trans people who de-transition do it not because of regret, but due to life circumstances, e.g. extreme job discrimination, trying to save a relationship, etc.)

      Reply
    13. 13.

      cain

      September 8, 2023 at 4:15 pm

      @Old School: But boy, he’s gonna start the year kinda poor.

      Reply
    14. 14.

      trollhattan

      September 8, 2023 at 4:16 pm

      Since it’s an open thread, here’s what a fight over homeless response looks like, as conducted between the city attorney and the county prosecutor.

      https://sacramentocityexpress.com/2023/09/08/city-attorney-provides-point-by-point-response-to-county-das-letter-regarding-homelessness/

      Reply
    15. 15.

      bbleh

      September 8, 2023 at 4:17 pm

      So this is a CIVIL suit, so he DOESN’T have to be present in court, right?  But what about the criminal trials, of which I think it’s safe to presume there  will be more than one?  Does he have to be there EVERY DAY?  Won’t that really interfere with his tee times and Nuremberg Rallies and so on?

      @VOR: the Cult will NEVER not believe he’s fabulously wealthy.  For one thing, this is all a Hoax and a Witch Hunt.  And for another, they all watched The Apprentice, and that was on for years so it’s gotta be true!

      Reply
    16. 16.

      UncleEbeneezer

      September 8, 2023 at 4:19 pm

      @Sister Golden Bear: He “tells it like it is.”

      Reply
    17. 17.

      WaterGirl

      September 8, 2023 at 4:20 pm

      @Jesse: It interests me because it will be humiliating for Trump.

      Plus, I have to believe that at some point, some lie will tip a certain percentage of his voters.  Maybe this one will tip the ones who believe he’s a good ::choke:: businessman.

      Reply
    18. 18.

      WaterGirl

      September 8, 2023 at 4:20 pm

      @Jesse: And, it’s an open thread, so feel free to talk about whatever it is that does interest you.

      Reply
    19. 19.

      jonas

      September 8, 2023 at 4:22 pm

      In the deposition he gave in this case, PAB’s response to all of this was “Sure I give bullshit inflated numbers when talking about my properties. So what?” Supposedly when the Trump Org applied for loans and stuff, there was always a disclaimer saying to disregard any valuations given on the forms.

      So this raises the question: either banks just took for granted that the Trump Org *always* lied about its valuations and just did their own due diligence as a matter of course and didn’t say anything because they made a lot of money off him, or Trump had insider loan officers at various banks whom he knew would look the other way.

      Reply
    20. 20.

      trollhattan

      September 8, 2023 at 4:23 pm

      Schiff and Porter effectively tied in race for senate seat. Too far away to get into the weeds with this, just yet.

      A new poll shows Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Burbank, and Rep. Katie Porter, D-Irvine, nearly neck-and-neck in the primary to succeed Sen. Dianne Feinstein in the U.S. Senate.
      The Berkeley Institute of Governmental Studies survey shows Schiff with a slight lead at 20% support, and Porter just behind at 17% Rep. Barbara Lee, D-Oakland, sits at 7%, as do Republicans Steve Garvey (who has yet to formally enter the race) and James Bradley. Republican Eric Early is at 5%.
      Nearly a third of California voters (32%) are still undecided, the survey found.
      The top two vote-getters in the March 5 primary will compete in the November 2024 general election.

      Was Steve Garvey a baseball player?​

      Reply
    21. 21.

      Quaker in a Basement

      September 8, 2023 at 4:24 pm

      The questions not answered in that short tweet are crucial: Overstated to whom? And to what end? This trial is going to get deep in the weeds quickly.

      Reply
    22. 22.

      Gravenstone

      September 8, 2023 at 4:25 pm

      @trollhattan: Yes, former San Diego Padre and LA Dodger most famously. More than a bit of a preening ass, too. But I guess that’s to be expected as a Republican.

      Reply
    23. 23.

      Quaker in a Basement

      September 8, 2023 at 4:26 pm

      @trollhattan: Shiff and Porter would both make fine senators. Porter would be my choice if I was voting in CA. She seems a bit more focused on actual governance, even when the subject matter doesn’t give her a chance to jump in front of a TV camera.

      Reply
    24. 24.

      Scout211

      September 8, 2023 at 4:26 pm

      @Old School: You’re probably right, but I am hoping that Judge McAfee goes along with Fani Willis’ plan to try all the conspirators as a group on October 23rd for the RICO charges.  One can dream.

      Reply
    25. 25.

      VOR

      September 8, 2023 at 4:26 pm

      @bbleh: Sadly true. I had a conversation with a colleague who claimed Trump was constantly donating to charity and anonymously paying people’s medical bills. He brought up the trip to the train derailment where Trump brought cases of branded water bottles. That very day there was an incident where Trump was in a restaurant, promised to pay for everyone’s meals, and then left without paying. He didn’t believe me because Fox News wasn’t covering the story.

      Reply
    26. 26.

      Anoniminous

      September 8, 2023 at 4:28 pm

      Ninja’ed.

      Reply
    27. 27.

      JPL

      September 8, 2023 at 4:30 pm

      @jonas: I still wonder if this is tied to Kennedy’s retirement.

      This was from law and crime

      The son of former U.S. Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy helped Donald Trump in 2005 secure nearly $700 million in loans to construct a skyscraper in Chicago, despite Trump’s reputation for defaulting on business loans, the New York Times reported on Tuesday evening.

      Reply
    28. 28.

      jonas

      September 8, 2023 at 4:31 pm

      @Sister Golden Bear: Thanks for posting this. I noticed this too early on as conservatives started to gin up this whole trans panic bullshit — they keep trotting out the same one or two de-transitioners while claiming that it’s “just the tip of the iceberg” or something. There’s no there there, and even if a very small number of people detransition for whatever reason, that’s not an argument against the many thousands who have been helped immeasurably — even whose lives have been saved — by access to gender-affirming care.

      Reply
    29. 29.

      Sister Golden Bear

      September 8, 2023 at 4:31 pm

      @Sister Golden Bear:

      Brynn Tannehill discusses a new randomized clinical trial that finds that the treatment group receiving trans healthcare saw a 55% reduction in suicidality, compared to 5% of the control group.

      It’s the latest in a line of studies finding trans healthcare saves lives. (Almost none are randomized control trials — as are 90% of medical studies — because the effects of hormones become physically apparently after only a few months.) The anti-trans “journalists” who have spent years asking for this type of study will be shifting the goalposts shortly, just have to get their talking points in order over the group chat. A NYT debunking is six months out.

      It looks like the epidemic of bomb threats across the U.S., targeting the LGBTQ community, is being done by a troll farm in Nigeria. There is a strong possibility that this is being sponsored by a nation state such as Russia.

      Reply
    30. 30.

      smith

      September 8, 2023 at 4:31 pm

      @jonas: There were perhaps three such insiders at Deutsche Bank, it seems likely, and I’d not be at all surprised to learn there were others at other banks

      Trump’s relationship with Deutsche Bank has repeatedly come under scrutiny. Last year, The Times reported that the bank had loaned him more than $2 billion over more than two decades — with Vrablic personally steering more than $300 million his way despite his long history of defaults.

      Reply
    31. 31.

      lowtechcyclist

      September 8, 2023 at 4:32 pm

      @WaterGirl: ​
       

      It interests me because it will be humiliating for Trump.

      OK, but what’s the connection to the NY civil suit? Why is this a court filing? Connect some dots here?

      Reply
    32. 32.

      wjca

      September 8, 2023 at 4:32 pm

      @smith: there are rumors that the reason the DC grand jury is still meeting is to consider wire fraud charges against him due to his fundraising on the Big Lie. As I understand it, if found guilty on that, he might have to pay those donors back.

      “Alas, due to a (very carefully timed) computer crash, all records of who donated and how much have been lost.  So we can’t pay them back, and will have to just keep the money.”

      Reply
    33. 33.

      schrodingers_cat

      September 8, 2023 at 4:32 pm

      Infinity + 1 is also infinity.

      Reply
    34. 34.

      Scout211

      September 8, 2023 at 4:33 pm

      @Quaker in a Basement: I am just thrilled with the wonderful candidates we will have for Senate in 2024. I look forward to the California jackals here agreeing and disagreeing with each other before the primary next year.  There are quite a few of us on board here and we are not likely to agree with each other until the primary is over.

      On the other hand, not even then. The top two will likely be Schiff and Porter, so we will have another 8 months to argue about it.  Sweet!

      At this early point, my vote is for Schiff, but I could be persuaded.

      Reply
    35. 35.

      Steeplejack

      September 8, 2023 at 4:33 pm

      @MattF:

      Yeah, I’d like to know what is Trump’s actual (i.e., estimated) net worth, not the relative amount overstated. My net worth could be overstated by a billion or two, but (trust me!) that’s not really accurate.

      Reply
    36. 36.

      jonas

      September 8, 2023 at 4:36 pm

      @VOR:.  I had a conversation with a colleague who claimed Trump was constantly donating to charity and anonymously paying people’s medical bills.

      Again, this was schtick from The Apprentice. People still think that was a “reality” show.  Remember how a lot of the challenges were about fundraising or marketing for some charity he was supposedly working with or something? Made him look like this big philanthropist. It was all bullshit. Not only did he never willingly give a dime to anything in his life, as we all know, the one family charitable foundation he was running was shut down because it was a massive fraud.

      Reply
    37. 37.

      smith

      September 8, 2023 at 4:37 pm

      @wjca: Might work better than flooding the basement, as long as their IT guy doesn’t flip.

      Reply
    38. 38.

      WaterGirl

      September 8, 2023 at 4:37 pm

      @Quaker in a Basement: Wow, I hold the opposite view!  I think Porter is better suited to the House, I think Schiff has 10x the gravitas, which I think suits him for the senate.

      I think Schiff is WAY more substantive than Porter.

      Plus, Porter’s House seat staying D is not a sure thing by any stretch of the imagination.

      Reply
    39. 39.

      Kelly

      September 8, 2023 at 4:38 pm

      @cain: I thought our 5 Oregon seasons were winter, spring, summer, smoke and fall

      Reply
    40. 40.

      trollhattan

      September 8, 2023 at 4:38 pm

      @JPL: ​
      A damn good and as yet unanswered question. Here’s hoping the newfound focus on SCOTUS Griftocracy tosses a net large enough to snag Kennedy with the other skells.

      Reply
    41. 41.

      WaterGirl

      September 8, 2023 at 4:39 pm

      @schrodingers_cat: Ha ha ha.  But infinity minus one would not be infinity, correct?

      Reply
    42. 42.

      ...now I try to be amused

      September 8, 2023 at 4:39 pm

      @smith: Actually, I don’t want Trump’s marks to get their money back. They’d only waste it on other charlatans, some of whom might be effective GOP politicians or PACs.

      Reply
    43. 43.

      smith

      September 8, 2023 at 4:39 pm

      @Kelly: In the Midwest, we have only two: winter and road repair.

      Reply
    44. 44.

      wjca

      September 8, 2023 at 4:41 pm

      @smith: it wouldn’t be that surprising if all the records which existed in the first place were of who the marks/suckers reliable donors were.  Why keep track of unimportant details like how much they donated?  (Except maybe the whales.)

      Reply
    45. 45.

      Kelly

      September 8, 2023 at 4:41 pm

      @WaterGirl: Nope still infinity

      Reply
    46. 46.

      Sister Golden Bear

      September 8, 2023 at 4:41 pm

      @Sister Golden Bear:

      Scariest of all, right wing thinkers at the Heritage Foundation are circulating a 920-page blueprint for the next president (full PDF here), which chillingly includes having the next president declare the mere existence of trans people pornographic.

      Step 1 is reclassify all gender nonconformity as porn.

      Step 2 is ban all porn.

      They put it quite vividly: declare any trans content to be porn, imprison those who make it , put teachers who discuss it on the sex offender registry, and force companies that host it to close (Youtube, Xitter, Meta, Reddit, and Tumblr).

      When they talk about pornography, this includes any content discussing or portraying LGBTQ figures from the children’s books I Am Jazz and And Tango Makes Three to the Trevor Project’s suicide hotline.

      It’s also arguable that LGBTQ parents would be subject to arrest, imprisonment, and being put on sex-offender registries for “exposing children to pornography” simply by being LGBTQ and having children.

      It would also likely criminalize any therapist, doctor, or counselor who provided affirming therapy to trans youth. Indeed, the document makes it explicitly clear they want nationwide bans on abortion and access to affirming care for trans youth, while calling for conversion therapies to be the only available treatments. It could be argued as well that people who are visibly trans in public are pornographic or obscene, because they might be seen by a minor. This understanding of intent is in line with the call to “eradicate transgenderism from public life.”

      These are not cranks, this is the Republican policy establishment.

      Reply
    47. 47.

      Jay

      September 8, 2023 at 4:41 pm

      also posted down thread,

      https://nitter.net/JuliaDavisNews/status/1700144796277301737#m

      Julia Davis
      @JuliaDavisNews
      6h
      Fani Willis said at least 23 jurors in the case have had their personal information—including their names, ages, addresses and vehicle details —posted anonymously on websites hosted by a Russian company as part of an effort to “harass and intimidate them.” axios.com/2023/09/07/trump-g…

      Reply
    48. 48.

      smith

      September 8, 2023 at 4:42 pm

      @…now I try to be amused: Don’t worry, he won’t pay it back. That’s when he’ll suddenly realize he has no assets, and then fundraise on the totally non-fraudulent grounds that he’s broke. The grift goes on forever.

      Reply
    49. 49.

      Old School

      September 8, 2023 at 4:43 pm

      @lowtechcyclist:

      OK, but what’s the connection to the NY civil suit? Why is this a court filing? Connect some dots here?

      The New York lawsuit is that Trump fraudulently misstated the value of his assets in financial statements while conducting his business there.

      This filing says that the financial statements were off even more than initially thought.

      Reply
    50. 50.

      trollhattan

      September 8, 2023 at 4:43 pm

      I’m not going to dig up those Country Joe & the Fish albums just yet.

      A bill to decriminalize a narrow selection of naturally occurring psychedelics moved one big step closer to becoming law Wednesday, when the Assembly voted 41-11 to pass SB 58.

      If it becomes law, the measure would remove criminal penalties for possessing up to four grams of mescaline, one gram of DMT, one gram of psilocybin or one gram of psilocyn, provided you are 21 or older, beginning on Jan. 1, 2025. They remain illegal under federal law. The bill returns to the Senate for a concurrence vote, where it previously passed 21-16. Then it goes to Gov. Gavin Newsom’s desk for a signature or veto.

      SB 58 author Sen. Scott Wiener said in a statement, “California’s veterans, first responders, and others struggling with PTSD, depression, and addiction deserve access to these promising plant medicines.” On the Assembly floor, the bill was championed by Assembly members Lori Wilson, D-Suisun City; Josh Lowenthal, D-Long Beach; and Bill Essayli, R-Corona — the latter was one of a handful of Republicans to vote for the bill.

      One Democrat, Assemblywoman Jasmeet Bains of Bakersfield, voted no.

      Speaking for the bill, Wilson pointed out that “California is not breaking new ground by passing this bill,” alluding to the fact that California would be following Oregon and Colorado in decriminalizing certain psychedelics.

      Reply
    51. 51.

      Jay

      September 8, 2023 at 4:45 pm

      @Kelly:

      in BC the past decade, it’s been winter, floods and smoke.

      The forecast for late 2023 well into 2024 is drought and smoke.

      Reply
    52. 52.

      MattF

      September 8, 2023 at 4:45 pm

      @jonas: See David Fahrenthold’s work at WaPo. He tracked down Trump’s claims of charitable donations in specific and gruesome detail and came to the consistent conclusion that the actual donated amount was ZERO in pretty much every case. Fahrenthold now works for the NYT.

      Reply
    53. 53.

      Elizabelle

      September 8, 2023 at 4:46 pm

      I really would like to see DOJ and states’ AGs go after the corruption.  It seems that Trump’s disputed “wealth” is based on money laundering.

      And I would bet there is a lot more out there, not just about Trump.  Tinfoil hat time for me, but the FTF NY Times is always crowing about its increase of subscribers.  Really?  Could they be another real estate empire that is propped up by a newspaper?

      And the state GOP organizations that find themselves bereft of funds, now that the US has cut off foreign funding — ie. Russian — inflow.

      Go after the corruption, and make these fuckers pay a fair share of taxes.  (Personally, I am good with Eisenhower era rates for the billionaires, high millionaires and C suite corporate pirates. They have bought our government, and private equity is preying on everything it can.  Homes, apartment buildings, nursing homes and assisted living, healthcare.)

      Reply
    54. 54.

      trollhattan

      September 8, 2023 at 4:46 pm

      @smith: Pat Robertson [still dead!] never stopped collecting from the rubes and I’m guessing figured a way to take some with him to the grave, too.

      Reply
    55. 55.

      HumboldtBlue

      September 8, 2023 at 4:49 pm

      @Scout211:

      Only the best dollars for Donnie, perfect dollars, and clauses.

      Reply
    56. 56.

      JaySinWA

      September 8, 2023 at 4:51 pm

      @schrodingers_cat: But some infinities are bigger than others.

      Reply
    57. 57.

      M31

      September 8, 2023 at 4:52 pm

      @Kelly: lol infinity is really messed up

      my fave infinity joke is about the hotel with an infinite number of rooms, all full, and another guest shows up, so they move the person from room 1 into 2, and 2 into 3, and it’s fine — 1 is now empty so the extra person has a room

      THEN an infinite number of new guests show up, so they move the person from room 1 into room 2, and 2 into room 4, and 3 into room 6, etc. This frees up all the odd numbered rooms, so the infinity new guests have rooms now, *phew

      Reply
    58. 58.

      lowtechcyclist

      September 8, 2023 at 4:53 pm

      @Old School:

      The New York lawsuit is that Trump fraudulently misstated the value of his assets in financial statements while conducting his business there.

      This filing says that the financial statements were off even more than initially thought.

      That still isn’t much context.  With four different sets of criminal indictments, I’ll confess I’ve lost track of what this civil suit was all about.  Who is suing him?  How were they allegedly victimized by his false financial statements?

      Reply
    59. 59.

      MattF

      September 8, 2023 at 4:54 pm

      @JaySinWA: Yes, and there’s a big difference between ordinal and cardinal infinities.

      Reply
    60. 60.

      trollhattan

      September 8, 2023 at 4:55 pm

      @Jay: El Nino on deck.

      Historically, El Nino brings rain to the southern Pacific coast, and dry to the north. There are other oscillations involved and it’s too early to do anything more than speculate.

      CA reservoirs are still in good shape from last season’s bounty, so a dry year won’t put us in dire straits but we won’t skip fire season, either.

      Reply
    61. 61.

      Old School

      September 8, 2023 at 4:56 pm

      @lowtechcyclist:

      The September 2022 lawsuit accused members of the Trump family and Trump Organization executives of orchestrating an extensive fraudulent scheme related to valuations of property and Trump’s personal financial statements. Allegations against Ivanka Trump have since been dismissed by a New York appeals court.

      The lawsuit is seeking $250 million and sanctions that would effectively cease the company’s operations in New York. The Trumps and the company have vehemently denied wrongdoing.

      Reply
    62. 62.

      Alison Rose

      September 8, 2023 at 4:57 pm

      @lowtechcyclist: It was brought by the NY AG because by inflating his assets/worth, the Trump Org was able to get loans and other things through fraudulent means — presumably, loans that would not have been given if the financials had been presented accurately.

      Reply
    63. 63.

      Geminid

      September 8, 2023 at 5:00 pm

      @WaterGirl: That horse is out of the barn. Porter is committed to the Senate race and her district’s Democrats will have to defend the seat without her. They ought to be able to come up with a good candidate, and a Presidential year electorate should be more favorable to them than the midterm bunch who reelected Porter by 2 or 3 points. The guy she beat is running again.

      There is a similar situation in my Congressional District, where incumbent Abigail Spanberger has let Democrats know she will forgo a reelection race in order to concentrate on a run for Governor in 2025. Like Porter, Spanberger flipped a Republican seat in 2018. She’s a perfect fit for the 7th CD,  but the way I see it, Spanberger has paid her dues and done the work and its time for district Democrats to do ours.

      She’ll be a strong candidate for Governor and will make a very good one, I think. Spanberger would be the “Old Dominion’s” first female Governor. And she’d finish her term January, 2030, just in time to run for Tim Kaine’s Senate seat. Both Kaine and Mark Warner were Governors before they were Senators.

      Reply
    64. 64.

      Jay

      September 8, 2023 at 5:00 pm

      @trollhattan:

      normally, here, in a bad fire season, (and this is the worst ever recorded, and more fires starting), we count on winter to put out the worst of the fires.

      Not going to happen this year, several of the fires are predicted to keep burning through the winter and spring, but might be in a condition to be put out next summer, if conditions are right for fire crews.

      Reply
    65. 65.

      HumboldtBlue

      September 8, 2023 at 5:01 pm

      @trollhattan:

      Yes, for the Dodgers in the 70s and 80s, he’s always been a prick.

      Reply
    66. 66.

      snoey

      September 8, 2023 at 5:01 pm

      @smith: The FTNYT article doesn’t say that Deutsche Bank loaned Trump the money, it says that DB brokered loans for unspecified clients looking for high risk/reward investments.

      If legitimate, Trump was paying through the nose for the money.

      Money laundering and payoffs are other possibilities.

      Reply
    67. 67.

      boatboy_srq

      September 8, 2023 at 5:02 pm

      Billionaire’s Millionaire’s Thousandaire’s valuation at last approaching accurate.

      Reply
    68. 68.

      mrmoshpotato

      September 8, 2023 at 5:02 pm

      @Jesse:

      Itbh this doesn’t interest me. I thought it was sort of understood that Trump’s net worth isn’t even possibly close to what he claims it is (don’t know and do t care about any particular number). 

      Yeah.  Isn’t it common knowledge that the orange shitstain is also a decades-long conman?

      Reply
    69. 69.

      smith

      September 8, 2023 at 5:02 pm

      @Alison Rose: And at the same time low-balling the values of those properties to avoid tax liability.

      Reply
    70. 70.

      Dan B

      September 8, 2023 at 5:03 pm

      @Sister Golden Bear:  It’s an awful feeling to be targeted by a country like Russia for being LGBT+.  When I was in Gay Liberation in the early 70’s we thought this would happen to us, and it did -Mafia and Vice Squad – but it wasn’t an entire country.

      Reply
    71. 71.

      M31

      September 8, 2023 at 5:04 pm

      amazing how the news that Trump’s fraud was billions of dollars larger than previous reports seems like such small fry

      I mean, I guess in contrast to “attempted violent overthrow of the the results of a legitimate election” good old fashioned NYC real estate sleazebag fraud seems kind of quaint

      Reply
    72. 72.

      Jeffro

      September 8, 2023 at 5:04 pm

      @cain: <snort>

      ”ah yes, FAFO, when the leaves are turning…and so are the ex-president’s staffers…”

      Reply
    73. 73.

      nonrev

      September 8, 2023 at 5:04 pm

      No American Bank and now no foreign bank will loan him a dime to keep his decades long con game going.  This is a clear sign he’s in financial trouble.  Not totally unexpected though

      Reply
    74. 74.

      Alison Rose

      September 8, 2023 at 5:04 pm

      @HumboldtBlue: <Giants Fan>Well, if he played for the Dodgers, being a prick is a given.</Giants Fan> ;)

      Reply
    75. 75.

      mrmoshpotato

      September 8, 2023 at 5:05 pm

      @MattF:

      The big question, needless to say, is whether TFG’s net worth is greater than zero. The over/under wager in this case takes on metaphysical implications. 

      Is that before or after he pays his debts to the Russkis?

      Reply
    76. 76.

      jonas

      September 8, 2023 at 5:07 pm

      @Steeplejack: Whatever it is, it’s definitely getting smaller. Commercial real estate is tanking, esp. in NYC. Whatever banks or investors have been propping Trump up over the past couple of years had better have some soap on hand, ’cause it’s bath time.

      I don’t think his usual routine of declaring bankruptcy, walking away from the mess, and then restarting the grift with some different marks is going to work this time. Especially if he’s busy commuting between three or more courtrooms at the time.

      Reply
    77. 77.

      Alison Rose

      September 8, 2023 at 5:07 pm

      @Sister Golden Bear: Yeah, I’d guess that if transphobia didn’t exist, detransitioning would be even rarer. The bigots create a problem and then blame the target of their hatred for it.

      Reply
    78. 78.

      M31

      September 8, 2023 at 5:07 pm

      maybe some of Dark Brandon’s 30,000-strong IRS army could focus on NYC real estate sleazebag fraud, I bet there’s good pickings there

      Reply
    79. 79.

      Jeffro

      September 8, 2023 at 5:08 pm

      @Geminid: Spanberger will indeed ROCK as Governor and I look forward to donating to/volunteering for that camapaign!

      Reply
    80. 80.

      M31

      September 8, 2023 at 5:08 pm

      @cain: spring, summer, FAFO, winter

      that is brilliant

      some Category 5 FAFO is overdue this season

      Reply
    81. 81.

      Scout211

      September 8, 2023 at 5:09 pm

      @mrmoshpotato: Is that before or after he pays his debts to the Russkis?

      I thought those were payments for services rendered.

      Reply
    82. 82.

      Jeffro

      September 8, 2023 at 5:10 pm

      @mrmoshpotato: yes on the ‘common knowledge he’s a con man’ thing…even his supporters know that, and they don’t care.

      They won’t care when it comes out that he’s broke.

      But some of them might care if/when it comes out that he’s been bankrolled by Vlad for a long time and laundering money for the Russian mob.  Not many, but some.

      Reply
    83. 83.

      ...now I try to be amused

      September 8, 2023 at 5:11 pm

      @boatboy_srq:

      Billionaire’s Millionaire’s 
      Thousandaire’s valuation at last approaching accurate.

      When Trump is down to his last dollar, will be a Derriaire?

      Reply
    84. 84.

      Geminid

      September 8, 2023 at 5:13 pm

      @Jeffro: I was happy to see that Spanberger will run for Governor. Seventh District Democrats will come up with a good candidate to take her place.

      Reply
    85. 85.

      HumboldtBlue

      September 8, 2023 at 5:13 pm

      @JPL:

      Of course it is.

      Reply
    86. 86.

      smith

      September 8, 2023 at 5:14 pm

      @nonrev: You’d think he’d have long ago been written off as an unacceptable credit risk, but they kept giving him money. It’s a shame he won’t be testifying in this trial, judging from this bit of comedy from his deposition:

      “We went to the closing and the bank said, I’m not going — we’re not going to close. We want you to take an extra hundred million dollars.”

      And, “But the banks said, no, we want you. We feel you need more for this. We feel you could easily handle it. We’re not going to close unless you take more money.”

      The bankers just couldn’t give him enough money. They had tears in their eyes, and said, “Sir…”

      Reply
    87. 87.

      wjca

      September 8, 2023 at 5:14 pm

      @Elizabelle: Personally, I am good with Eisenhower era rates for the billionaires, high millionaires and C suite corporate pirates. They have bought our government

      But…but… Those tax rates were confiscatory!  And would result in totally trashing the economy!  Just look at how bad it was then! . . . Oh, wait, the 1950s was the Golden Age, wasn’t it?

      /snark

      Reply
    88. 88.

      Fair Economist

      September 8, 2023 at 5:16 pm

      @trollhattan: Schiff vs. Porter would be an interesting general.

      Reply
    89. 89.

      wjca

      September 8, 2023 at 5:17 pm

      @boatboy_srq: Billionaire’s Millionaire’s Thousandaire’s valuation at last approaching accurate.

      It will be soooo amusing to discover that my net worth exceeds Trump’s.

      Reply
    90. 90.

      ColoradoGuy

      September 8, 2023 at 5:17 pm

      TFG has been an asset for the Russian mob a long time.

      Reply
    91. 91.

      lowtechcyclist

      September 8, 2023 at 5:18 pm

      @M31: ​

      lol infinity is really messed up

      my fave infinity joke is about the hotel with an infinite number of rooms, all full, and another guest shows up, so they move the person from room 1 into 2, and 2 into 3, and it’s fine — 1 is now empty so the extra person has a room

      THEN an infinite number of new guests show up, so they move the person from room 1 into room 2, and 2 into room 4, and 3 into room 6, etc. This frees up all the odd numbered rooms, so the infinity new guests have rooms now, *phew

      And if you think infinity is messed up on account of that, that’s just countably infinite that we’re talking about here – the easiest-to-understand kind of infinity.
      An infinite set is countably infinite if it can be put into 1-to-1 correspondence with the ‘counting numbers’ – 1,2,3,… And it’s uncountable if it can’t.

      For instance, the rational numbers are countably infinite, but the real numbers are uncountable.

      As @JaySinWA: ​says,

      But some infinities are bigger than others.

      And uncountably infinite sets are bigger than countably infinite sets, which I’m sure is the sort of thing Jay had in mind. There are bigger infinities still, but I’m just as happy to stay away from those fuckers.

      Reply
    92. 92.

      trollhattan

      September 8, 2023 at 5:18 pm

      @wjca: ​
      Yeah, when you press a MAGA on “great” to define what we’re again-ing, they end at the ’50s. Certain Southerners I suspect are thinking the 1850s but they’re a special bunch.

      Ike’s tax tables? You’d need to fiddle for inflation but yes, let’s.

      Reply
    93. 93.

      wjca

      September 8, 2023 at 5:20 pm

      @Alison Rose: <Giants Fan>Well, if he played for the Dodgers, being a prick is a given.</Giants Fan> ;)

      Well, sure.  But if he was a prick compared to other Dodgers, that’s gotta be next level.

      Reply
    94. 94.

      Alison Rose

      September 8, 2023 at 5:21 pm

      @WaterGirl: I have to agree. I like Porter in general and I’d certainly have no issue with her as one of my senators, but the white board thing wore thin a long time ago (I don’t know if she still does it) and it sort of feels like she thinks she should run for the Senate because of some clips of her with the white board going viral. I don’t doubt that she is smart and capable, but I think the House makes more sense for her, as it does for many.

      Reply
    95. 95.

      Scout211

      September 8, 2023 at 5:22 pm

      Big Pharma has filed their appeal to SCOTUS to overturn the appellate court ruling on mifepristone. Link

      The Supreme Court is once again being asked to make a major ruling on abortion in an election year.

      A manufacturer of the widely used abortion drug mifepristone asked the Supreme Court on Friday to reverse a lower court ruling that, if allowed to go into effect, would restrict access to the drug.

      The filing obtained by CNN that means that the justices could finally decide the long-running abortion-related dispute next summer, putting the court in the middle of US presidential and congressional politics.

      Jessica L. Ellsworth, a lawyer for Danco laboratories, a manufacturer of the drug and an intervenor in the case told the justices in court papers that “for the women and teenage girls, health care providers and States that depend on FDA’s actions to ensure safe and effective reproductive health care is available, this case matters tremendously.”

      She said the court should take up the dispute because it “affects the availability of a drug with lawful uses in States across the country” and “raises questions about whether a single federal court can limit abortion access in the States that protect it.”

      A decision by the conservative 5th US Circuit Court of Appeals last month “destabilizes” the pharmaceutical and biotechnology industries “by questioning when scientific studies – accepted by FDA – are sufficient to support conditions of use,” Ellsworth added.

      . . .

      The case is the most important abortion related dispute to come before the justices since the landmark decision in 2022 that overturned Roe v. Wade and triggered conservative states across the country to either ban or severely restrict the procedure. The new case could make it harder for women to access abortion even in states that still allow it.

      This definitely is a big effing deal. They filed early to make sure the court rules on the case in by next summer.

      Reply
    96. 96.

      patrick II

      September 8, 2023 at 5:28 pm

      @WaterGirl: Not just humiliating, but perhaps it will cause him real trouble paying for lawyers himself. He has been using contributions so far but that gambit may be stymied by a possible fraud indictment. Maybe he’ll be selling Trump steaks again.

      Reply
    97. 97.

      Geminid

      September 8, 2023 at 5:29 pm

      @Jeffro: I’ve run into some anti-Trump, pro-Ukraine Republicans whlie searching Ukraine Twitter. One is Randy Mott, who is a board member of the George S. Patton Foundation-Poland Division and tweets from Warsaw. Mott* is harshly scornful of “Magats” and Republican tankies. Right now he has a good thread pinned to the top of his Twitter account titled, “How did Tucker Carlson become a Russia TV star?”

      * Not to be confused with the GM executive. This Randy Mott is a retired Army Reserve Officer and tweets as @randymot4.

      Reply
    98. 98.

      lamh36

      September 8, 2023 at 5:31 pm

      Lordt…literally just now have time to get online after a long half workday and trying to get my things together for my LA trip tomorrow, but

       

      @WaterGirl.  I responded to your comment on the previous thread about the OTR posts.

      If you didn’t see that comment, just email me and I’ll def try to send some pics thru for a post or even two.

      The fam and I went to Italy last year for my birthday (Milan, Venice, Florence, Rome) and this past May we went to Tokyo cause I wanted to and they tagged along.  I can def submit pics galore!

      Reply
    99. 99.

      trollhattan

      September 8, 2023 at 5:32 pm

      @Alison Rose: When I ponder which I’d like to see on Judiciary, Schiff would get my nod.

      It’s a full reset, though, so California will have two baby senators for a good while, based on seniority.

      Reply
    100. 100.

      Baud

      September 8, 2023 at 5:32 pm

      @smith:

      https://youtu.be/l_LeJfn_qW0?si=L9CSdf4P8bRJpjOP&t=213

      Reply
    101. 101.

      HumboldtBlue

      September 8, 2023 at 5:33 pm

      @Jeffro: ​

      Perfect.

      @ColoradoGuy:

      Yeah he has, they say it goes back at least 40 years.

      Reply
    102. 102.

      WaterGirl

      September 8, 2023 at 5:35 pm

      @lamh36: Wow, Italy and more!  I will go check out your comment in the previous thread.

      Reply
    103. 103.

      lollipopguild

      September 8, 2023 at 5:37 pm

      @Jeffro: They know exactly what he is and they still defend him and compliment him.

      Reply
    104. 104.

      Nelle

      September 8, 2023 at 5:39 pm

      @WaterGirl: A guy on the next stationary bike at the gym was yammering on his phone.  Strike one.  Then he said, “I’m just a Trump guy.  I was in banking and he’s such a good businessman.  And I want integrity.  That’s what Trump has.  Integrity.”

      Seriously, how could he even balance on a stationary bike, being of such unbalanced judgment?  All out of strikes for him.  F’s for me.

      Reply
    105. 105.

      Searcher

      September 8, 2023 at 5:42 pm

      @mrmoshpotato:

      Is that before or after he pays his debts to the Russkis?

      Can you ever pay off your debts to the Russkis?

      Reply
    106. 106.

      Geminid

      September 8, 2023 at 5:44 pm

      @Alison Rose: Rep. Porter became a “star” like Rep. Ocasio-Cortez had before her. I’m not sure if the public adulation and media attention was good for their political development.

      Reply
    107. 107.

      prostratedragon

      September 8, 2023 at 5:45 pm

      A little American flamenco:
      “Shake’em on Down,” Mississippi Fred McDowell.
      The song is by Booker White, and is thought might refer to dome of his roughneck shenannigans during his railhopping days.

      Reply
    108. 108.

      Elizabelle

      September 8, 2023 at 5:50 pm

      @MattF:  Had missed that David Fahrenthold moved to the NY Times.  He sure did.

      That’s a shame.  I wish the FTF NY Times was not considered the apex of daily journalism.  But I guess the tinfoil hat must come off, and I can’t wonder if they are a front for foreign money and influence any more.  Cuz he would have checked that out first, no?

      Anyway, he is doing good work there.  A lot of bylines.  The guy who opened 76 misleadingly named “charities,” allegedly in midwest states, from one mailing address [in Staten Island!], and the gutted IRS approved them all.  Every single one.  And he had previously been convicted of fraud.  Yikes.

      It will be great to have Biden more fully staff the watchdogs.

      Not a gift link:

      76 Fake Charities Shared a Mailbox. The I.R.S. Approved Them All.

      The tax agency is the gatekeeper for America’s charity system, but reduced vetting has opened the door to scams.

      Reply
    109. 109.

      Shalimar

      September 8, 2023 at 6:10 pm

      Video from Lindell’s depositions in one of his libel lawsuits was attached to a court filing requesting another deposition,  and he is off-the-wall bonkers even for him.  Doesn’t even attempt to answer simple questions, constantly insults the plaintiff’s attorney,  and walks out repeatedly.  I’m not sure what is wrong with him*, but he’s going to get a directed verdict against him if he keeps acting like that.

      *edit: ok, i would bet money that narcissist-on-meth is wrong with him, but can’t be positive without a drug test.

      Reply
    110. 110.

      Jeffro

      September 8, 2023 at 6:10 pm

      @Geminid: will check it out – thanks!

      Reply
    111. 111.

      Frankensteinbeck

      September 8, 2023 at 6:11 pm

      @Nelle:

      That’s what Trump has. Integrity.

      The guy who lied on day one of his presidency about the crowd size and weather at his inauguration, to the face of people who had been there and seen he was wrong.  He has integrity.

      But he is completely open in his hate and selfishness, while simultaneously praising himself as the most selfless and benevolent person ever.  If you’re an asshole, that’s true integrity.  He says what they are thinking.

      Reply
    112. 112.

      WaterGirl

      September 8, 2023 at 6:18 pm

      @Nelle: Crazy.  Good that you didn’t yell “you fucking idiot!” from across the way. :-)

      Reply
    113. 113.

      Chris T.

      September 8, 2023 at 6:22 pm

      @Sister Golden Bear:

      These are not cranks, this is the Republican policy establishment.

      The first clause does not follow from the second.

      (Not saying that the second part is not true, just that the Establishment Repugnicans are cranks.)

      Reply
    114. 114.

      Jim, Foolish Literalist

      September 8, 2023 at 6:33 pm

      Very glad of this.

      Tamar Hallerman @TamarHallerman
      Breaking: U.S. District Court Judge Steve Jones REJECTS Mark Meadows’ push to remove his Fulton case to federal court.

      Reply
    115. 115.

      Frank Wilhoit

      September 8, 2023 at 6:38 pm

      Trump has always been underwater, living on debt. If you want to make a difference, go after his lenders, every single one of them, for breach of their fiduciary responsibility to their ownership and to their other customers, by taking on the unacceptable risk of dealing with Trump. Mostly the situations involved the lenders making exceptions to their own, documented internal risk policies, otherwise enforced with deadly seriousness.

      Reply
    116. 116.

      hotshoe

      September 8, 2023 at 6:56 pm

      @Geminid: ​
       
      The town where I was born, and partly raised, had some benefits of philanthropy from old Charles Stewart Mott (co-founder of GM). I don’t know if the Randy Mott “GM exec” is a descendant of CS Mott, or if the Randy Mott “Warsaw/Ukraine supporter” is a descendant — or both, or neither — but it warms my heart a bit to think that pro-Ukraine Randy Mott might have learned something from elder Mott about using money and status to actually help other people.

      Of course, I also have to be a bit suspicious of any man who still identifies as a Republican.

      But good is as good does.

      Reply
    117. 117.

      rikyrah

      September 8, 2023 at 7:05 pm

      @Sister Golden Bear:

      Thank you for posting this. Got to get this out to as many eyes as possible

      Reply
    118. 118.

      Geminid

      September 8, 2023 at 7:31 pm

      @hotshoe: Don’t know much more about the Warsaw Randy Mott except that he is/was an attorney. His Twitter picture shows a stern-looking man in aviators with a big cigar sticking out of his face.

      Reply
    119. 119.

      hotshoe

      September 8, 2023 at 7:39 pm

      @Geminid: ​
       
      Yeah, and looking at his nitter.net stuff, his political comments are every bit as shitty as you’d expect from a cigar-smoking white Repug guy.
      Stowed in between the Ukraine / Poland / NATO info are some typically-stupid R conspiracy stuff:
      Biden’s pressure on Ukraine about Shokin was really about protecting Hunter,
      etc,
      etc.
      But if he convinces even one other Repug to have faith in Ukraine instead of giving in to Russia … well, it’s probably a good trade after all.

      Reply
    120. 120.

      Geminid

      September 8, 2023 at 8:33 pm

      @hotshoe: It’s better than nothing. I’ll take what I get from conservatives like Mott. I don’t think he’ll ever come over to my side like Ron Filipkowski has, but Trump and his fanatical followers really are a plague and it’s good that a few Republicans like Mott denounce them. And Republican division is a particular study of mine, so I’ll probably check in on Mott from time to time.

      Reply
    121. 121.

      boatboy_srq

      September 8, 2023 at 9:50 pm

      @…now I try to be amused: He’s been that from the beginning.

      Reply
    122. 122.

      Ruckus

      September 9, 2023 at 1:36 am

      @Bill Arnold:

      SFB thinks that all that is required to be special is money, although he thinks he’s so special any way. It’s likely why he always over states his actual wealth. I remember it wasn’t all that long ago he came out on Forbes 400 wealthiest list in the mid 390s while he thinks (OK sorry, it’s not actual thinking, it’s more like dreaming to him and a nightmare to the rest of us) that he should have scored far wealthier. His stick has always been bluster and bullshit. But he’s at the felony FO stage of life now, not the normal, funny FAFO level.

      Reply
    123. 123.

      Ruckus

      September 9, 2023 at 1:57 am

      @Scout211:

      They are both good and either seems to me to be a good choice.

      But.

      I like Porter because she strikes me as someone not quite as refined as Schiff, a bit more outspoken, maybe a bit more emotional just a bit more like a lot of people I know. Schiff strikes me as a very good college professor and not quite as emotionally charged, Porter strikes me as a mom or possibly a smart school teacher that knows all the tricks. And I’m not saying that Schiff doesn’t, Porter just comes across like she absolutely knows BS when she hears it, and pushes back when she hears it.

      Once again I think either one will do the job well.

      Reply
    124. 124.

      Ruckus

      September 9, 2023 at 2:26 am

      @smith:

      The grift won’t go on forever. He’s 77 yrs old, He takes exceedingly shitty care of himself and thinks he knows everything and will live forever. He won’t. Now I’m not saying he won’t live a while longer but I think he’s not going to ever be close to the longest living asshole. One of the biggest, but not one of longest living. I give him mid 80s at best and to me that’s longer than he’s got. So I’m going 6-8 years. At our worst.

      Reply
    125. 125.

      Ruckus

      September 9, 2023 at 2:42 am

      @Searcher:

      Yes but the repayment delivery is to first jump out of a 10 story window. After that you are all paid up.

      Reply

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