Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Cole, when it comes to calico cats, restraint is overrated.

One of our two political parties is a cult whose leader admires Vladimir Putin.

Well, whatever it is, it’s better than being a Republican.

Wow, I can’t imagine what it was like to comment in morse code.

Every day Vance writes another chapter in the book called “Worst VP Pick Ever”.

Donald Jessica Trump found guilty as fuck – May 30, 2024!

The problem people have with Biden’s age is the color of the VPs skin.

It looks like winning debates is a black job!

The revolution will be supervised.

We won’t go back.

You know it’s bad when the Project 2025 people have to create training videos on “How To Be Normal”.

Imperialist aggressors must be defeated, or the whole world loses.

Fani Willis claps back at Trump chihuahua, Jim Jordan.

You don’t get rid of your umbrella while it’s still raining.

Tick tock motherfuckers!

“I never thought they’d lock HIM up,” sobbed a distraught member of the Lock Her Up Party.

You can’t attract Republican voters. You can only out organize them.

The jury literally has a bell they can ring to force Trump to show up on command. Greatest thing ever!

Jack be nimble, jack be quick, hurry up and indict this prick.

Stamping your little feets and demanding that they see how important you are? Not working anymore.

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

If you are still in the gop, you are either an extremist yourself, or in bed with those who are.

Black Jesus loves a paper trail.

In short, I come down firmly on all sides of the issue.

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Monday Morning Open Thread: ‘We Bow to No One’

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President Biden’s required to be positive, but the compromise can’t be all bad, given its enemies…

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226Comments

  1. 1.

    suzanne

    It’s January 8. 13 years ago today, Gabrielle Giffords survived an assassination attempt in Tucson.

  2. 2.

    Baud

    The transition away from Reaganomics would always be bumpy.  It’s become clear that the reason trickle down has such strong staying power is that people don’t want to deal with the transition period.  I’m hopeful that we’ll be through some of the bumpiness in time for voters to do the right thing in November.

  5. 5.

    suzanne

    @Baud: It also has strong emotional appeal. It’s that same nostalgia shit we talked about yesterday. People forget that the fantasy version of the 50s and 60s that they remember was possible because of incredibly high tax rates that actually incentivized money to move around.

  6. 6.

    satby

    @Baud: Paul Krugman wrote a book about it: Arguing With Zombies (enjoyable read BTW). From a review:

    Throughout the insanity of supply-side arguments that come to no logical point, Krugman has steadfastly retained his wit and wisdom. The title is appropriate since anyone who truly believes that by giving wealthy people more money the working poor and middle class will benefit must be, at least, partially brain-dead. Since Reagan wages have been flat while corporate profits soar. The investor class reaps windfalls while paying little or no taxes on their gains while the average worker lives paycheck to paycheck. Investment in the middle class and working poor through infrastructure stimulants and tax breaks have always been the correct antidote to income inequality. Yet the lie of trickle-down voodoo economics lives on even though it is widely known that our nation’s economy does better under demand-side economic leaders (dems)

  8. 8.

    Nukular Biskits

    @Baud:

    The transition away from Reaganomics would always be bumpy.  It’s become clear that the reason trickle down has such strong staying power is that people don’t want to deal with the transition period.  I’m hopeful that we’ll be through some of the bumpiness in time for voters to do the right thing in November.

    Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.

  9. 9.

    Geminid

    Deouty Campaign Manager Quentin Fulks grew up in a small town 20 miles from Plains, Georgia, and President Carter’s niece was one of his high School teachers. She emphasized to her students that “Uncle Jimmy” was once a student just like them, and that they had potential too.

    Fulks was Raphael Warnock’s 2022 campaign manager. Among other duties he administered a budget of over $100 million.

    Like WaterGirl’s new Rep. Nikki Budzinski, Fulks is a veteran of Illinois Governor Jay Pritzger’s first campaign and administration. I look for him to eventually seek public office as well. He is only 34 years old.

  11. 11.

    satby

    @Baud:  It’s amazing how so many negative trend lines start with Reagan….They believe that they would be wealthy if it weren’t for the moocher underclass stealing all their money.

    And that vicious divide and conquer wasn’t started by Reagan, but he mainstreamed it so successfully we’re still trying to kill it almost 50 years later.

  13. 13.

    Baud

    @satby:

    The one thing I will spot the right wingers is that actual socialism — as opposed to the better social welfare and labor rights system that people today call socialism — is pretty bad economics too.

    But we don’t have to choose between two bad systems.

  14. 14.

    p.a.

    @suzanne: I’ve seen news & utube vids that automat restaurants are coming back.  (NYC & Philly). The talk was how relatively inexpensive they were, & small-d-democratic the clientele was.  Talk abt nostalgia!  I have vague memories of going to one as a child on a visit to NYC.

    But was the food any good?  The food offered looked much more diverse than the fast food franchises that killed them, but was it really any better (fresher/healthier?)

  15. 15.

    Geminid

    @Geminid: Rep. Budzinski (IL) has made little national news as of yet. She has an active presence in her central Illinois district, and she is currently focused on getting the 5-year Farm Bill passed. Freaker Johnson’s compromise on the spending bills may presage passage of the Farm Bill as well, since Freedom Caucus resistance has been the biggest stumbling block.

    Assuming the spending deal flies, the biggest unknown now is the fate of President Biden’s $100+ billion supplemental funding bill for military aid for Ukraine and for Israel, with smaller amounts for various programs directed at “Trans-Pacific” security.

    Biden’s bill also includes $14 billion for enhanced Border security, and the big fight now is over Republican attempts to go beyond that by, among other demands, changing the laws on asylum.

  16. 16.

    Suzanne

    @p.a.: That’s interesting. I wonder if it’ll become a thing that spreads.

    Restaurant culture is such an interesting change in American life over the last 70 or so years. I’ve been thinking about it because SuzMom got her parents’ china and crystal when they died, and now that she lives with me, it’s boxed up in my basement and I don’t want to use it (highly breakable, not dishwasher-safe). She keeps trying to give it to one of her siblings, and they don’t want it, because they are also at the downsizing stage of life. And none of my cousins want it for the same reasons I don’t want it. I keep telling her that when we have friends over, we serve pizza and charcuterie. But really, 9 times out of 10….. we go to a restaurant. The idea of formal entertaining at home is just bonkers to me.

  18. 18.

    Barbara

    @Geminid: Asylum laws carry out  treaties. They can be changed around the edges, but not fundamentally. Still, there are issues of interpretation that can have an impact.

  19. 19.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Baud:

    It’s amazing how so many negative trend lines start with Reagan.

    Amazing isn’t the adjective I’d use but yeah, that point is not unlike the consistency of the Crazification Factor.

  20. 20.

    Barbara

    @Suzanne: Then why bother having a trophy kitchen? I would rather entertain at home than go to a restaurant but I agree that more people are probably like you.  We agreed some time ago to use my IL’s nice stuff and if it breaks so what. But no dishwasher is a bummer. You can put most things in the dishwasher unless they have gold rims that predate the 60s.

  21. 21.

    Suzanne

    @Baud: Yes, for sure.

    The whole idea of having your boss or business partners over for dinner. OMG. I know it was done, but what a weird thing. I suppose, if there’s a full-time homemaker, those are the kinds of things you can do.

    I read some statistic about how the “average American” now eats something like 20x the calories from restaurants, compared to 50 years ago. I have no idea if that’s confirmed or how that was measured. But it’s kind of interesting to consider.

  22. 22.

    Brachiator

    @p.a.:

    I’ve seen news & utube vids that automat restaurants are coming back.  (NYC & Philly). The talk was how relatively inexpensive they were, & small-d-democratic the clientele was.  Talk abt nostalgia!  I have vague memories of going to one as a child on a visit to NYC.

    I have read about these things, but have no idea what they were like. It was mostly a NYC and East Coast thing. I grew up in Texas and California.

    This stuff was never part of my life.

  24. 24.

    Chris

    @Nukular Biskits:

    Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.

    I always preferred the DS9 version.  More blunt and to the point.

    “Ferengi don’t want to stop the exploitation.  They want to become the exploiters.”

  25. 25.

    Chris

    @Baud:

    “Socialism” at this point is an utterly meaningless word.  It’s so broad that depending on who’s talking and what point they’re trying to make, it can mean anything from the USSR to Sweden.

    Not unlike “capitalism,” which depending on who’s talking and what point they’re trying to make, can mean anything from the Belgian Congo to, well, Sweden.

  26. 26.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Barbara:

    Exactly. The pernicious “open living floor plans” that is another cancer brought to us by the HGTV-ization of ‘Murka is all about the idea of entertaining at home.  Now, it’s possible that the *idea* being pushed doesn’t match *some* of the reality.

    Going out is a different economic animal now depending on where you live.  The cost has gone up significantly in many locations (here in Denver being one) to the point that getting together with friends at home is a) more social, and b) remains affordable.

  27. 27.

    M31

    @Suzanne: not just fancy old china, but SO MUCH of it — an old friend’s grandmother died and they split up the nice china between like 8 grandchildren and even so she got too much

    it’s in a box in the basement

    It’s why people had those huge old glass fronted side board cabinets that no one wants either

  28. 28.

    Suzanne

    @Barbara: When you say “trophy kitchen”, are you talking about those kind of sub-kitchens that are starting to pop up in high-end floor plans? I think those are showing up because the “open plan” is popular, but there’s no way to deal with the noise, smells, and general untidiness of a kitchen in use.

    Open plans suck. Also, I will note that the original open plans didn’t include the kitchen.

  29. 29.

    NotMax

    No discussion of Valley Forge during the Revolutionary War is complete without also bringing up the contributions of almost assuredly gay General von Steuben.

    Besides his well documented skill in training troops he brought camp discipline and hygienic measures, reducing greatly the prevalence of dysentery by moving latrines away from living quarters and relocating kitchens to the opposite side of the camp from sources of contamination.

  30. 30.

    Baud

    @Chris:

    Agree.  Although I feel like people have created many nuanced subcategories of socialism, but capitalism is just capitalism.  At least in the discourse I’ve seen.  Many serious thinkers have a better classification system.

  32. 32.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    @satby: I was sorry to read that the budget agreement includes speeding up cuts to the IRS. Was it Grassley who claimed that budget increase would send IRS agents to Iowa with automatic weapons?

  33. 33.

    Suzanne

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage: Open floor plans long predate HGTV. Mies van der Rohe really kicked off the idea with the Barcelona Pavilion and arguably perfected it with the Farnsworth House. Corbu did it in the Villa Savoye. Wright really brought them to America and into the middle class.

    But, of course, those were actual architects with skill. Most people live in houses that were designed by builders, not by architects, and open plans are now just these ill-proportioned barns of undifferentiated space with cheap finishes and stupid can lights.

  35. 35.

    randy khan

    The Freedom Caucus is right to be mad – the $16 billion in cuts is basically an illusion, since the COVID money likely wasn’t going to be spent and the IRS money is just changing the timing of what previously was agreed to.  (Still a bad idea, but it’s the same bad idea that was in the previous agreement.)  That makes me happy.

  36. 36.

    Geminid

    @Barbara: I probably was not precise in my comment because I have not been following the substance of these negotiations that closely. I just know that Senators Murphy, Sinema and Lankford have been trying to hammer out an acceptable compromise, and rules on asylum are one sticking point.

    Speaking of Senator Sinema, she’ll have to decide whether to get in or out of her race for reelection before too long. I’m hoping Sinema stays out, but some polls indicate thst she’ll take more votes from the Republican candidate (most likely scary Kari Lake) than from Democrat Ruben Gallego. Perhaps in response to this, Republicans have been running ads tying Sinema to President Biden.

  37. 37.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    Sure they predate HGTV but HGTV essentially mass marketed them to a generation of buyers and sellers.

    The flippers here know how to do nothing else.

  38. 38.

    Suzanne

    @M31: Dude. So much china. The stuff that was my grandparents’ is in like five boxes. And then Mr. Suzanne got his family’s china, too. Also in boxes. I will note that we paid to move all that stuff across the country. Multiple times now.

    We have holiday dinners at my house, and we sometimes do casual hangouts like board game nights. We use the white stoneware dishes that I have had since college.

  41. 41.

    AWOL

    @p.a.: Will it demand a tip? Everything and everyone else does in this pathetic ploy that covers the fact that owners refuse to pay their workers. I’m surprised the restaurant and supermarket doors don’t have tipping cups just to open them and you don’t have to tip the restaurant toilet when you flush.

  43. 43.

    NotMax

    @Suzanne

    One of the amusing things in later seasons of Murdoch Mysteries, set in turn of the 20th century Toronto, is the lead character and his by then recently married wife (he’s a police detective, she’s a doctor) commissioning a house from a “young up and coming” architect, Frank Lloyd Wright.

    Whenever visitors first arrive one of the first things out of their mouths is “Where are the rooms?”

  44. 44.

    Kay

    Democrats should jump on this. Republicans can’t, because part of the “parents rights” agenda is schools aren’t the boss and parents always “know best”, including when their children miss 30% of school days. Also, no one knows whether kids are “in school” or not because anyone can claim they are “homeschooling” to evade accountability for not getting their kids to school. Conservative deregulatory education policy is a disaster- it’s an opening for Dems:

    The crisis that Johnson was dealing with, on the other hand, seemed never-ending. Absenteeism has long been a problem in the Detroit area, as in other places with high poverty rates, but since the coronavirus pandemic it has worsened dramatically. Nationwide, the rate of chronic absenteeism — defined as missing at least 10% of school days, or 18 in a year — nearly doubled between 2018-19 and 2021-22, to 28% of students, according to data compiled for The Associated Press by Thomas Dee, a professor of education at Stanford. Michigan’s rate was 39%, the third highest among states. States that have reported data for the most recent school year showed only minimal improvement; some cities have rates of more than 40%. Absenteeism underlies much of what has beset young people in recent years, including falling school achievement, deteriorating mental health — exacerbated by social isolation — and elevated youth violence and car thefts, some occurring during school hours. But schools are using relatively little of the billions of dollars that they received in federal pandemic-recovery funds to address absenteeism. The issue has also attracted surprisingly little attention from leaders, elected or otherwise, and education coverage in the national media has focused heavily on culture-war fights.

    Kamala Harris actually worked on this in CA (she was villified for it by Lefties) but she was right– missing 18 or more school days in a year is the biggest marker of failure in school. Ask any juvenile judge. Bring back truancy accountability for parents!

    Great work by Propublica, yet again. This is what education coverage that doesn’t assign 6 reporters to Harvard looks like.

  45. 45.

    Suzanne

    @NotMax: Rooms are so good. Well-proportioned, furnished with passion and sensitivity. It’s like a picture frame around an experience.

    ETA: the original open plans were in rich people’s vacation homes in the countryside, and assumed that there was domestic help to keep everything clean.

  46. 46.

    Chris

    @Barbara:

    I would rather entertain at home than go to a restaurant but I agree that more people are probably like you.

    So would I, but with the caveat that, as Suzanne said, if that’s happening, it’s as likely to be pizza takeout or something in that vein as anything else, and the rules aren’t much fancier than they would be in a college dorm, or for a childhood sleepover.

    I’ve always been baffled by the fact that when my parents have friends over, and I do mean lifelong and incredibly close friends, they feel obligated to dress up and prepare nice and complex meals and generally behave like they’re having their boss over for dinner.  And the same for their friends when they go over.  In my corner of the world, if it wouldn’t be appropriate to serve them pizza, in a paper plate, while wearing shorts and a T-shirt, then they’re not your friends.

    Never been sure if it’s a generational thing (Boomer/Millennial), a class thing (my standard of living is much more modest than theirs has been for most of their life), or a geographic thing (one of them’s European, both have lived there for a long time; I’ve been all-American for over two decades).  Or some combination of all three.

  47. 47.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Baud: Laissez-fairee capitalism does not work neither does a command and control economy. What we need is a system that was mainstream for most of the twentieth century until Reagan. Capitalism without the boom and bust cycles with the use of prudent fiscal and monetary policies by the government. People need to read Keynes.

    That’s the system many Scandinavian countries still have. Biden is returning us to that model. But it will take time.

  48. 48.

    Obvious Russian Troll

    @Suzanne:

    The last time I had my boss over for dinner she came with her wife. And her ex-husband and his new wife.

    It wasn’t as awkward as it might sound–my old boss was great. I am still impressed that she managed to remain friends with her ex-husband after she came out.

    Oh, and we ordered out pizza.

  49. 49.

    TBone

    @NotMax: A true hero!  Thanks for that great reminder.  I’m watching Metallica’s video ‘King Nothing’ for reinforcement, it’s been my anthem lo these many years.

  52. 52.

    Chris

    @Suzanne:

    The whole idea of having your boss or business partners over for dinner. OMG. I know it was done, but what a weird thing. I suppose, if there’s a full-time homemaker, those are the kinds of things you can do.

    One of my friends has a copy of the “Congressional Cookbook” that collects beloved recipes from every senator, representative, cabinet member, and even a couple presidents, that the authors could get to contribute.  (Gift to his parents from when they lived in DC and one of their neighbors was in politics).

    We were flipping through it this weekend and, hilariously, there are very nearly no contributions by the actual politician.  Almost everything is signed “wife of,” very occasionally “daughter of.”

  53. 53.

    Soprano2

    @Suzanne: I think it’s a lot harder when women work outside the home. When a woman was at home all day she had time to plan a dinner party, and to shop and cook for it. Now no one has time for that!

  54. 54.

    Suzanne

    @Chris: Hosting a fancy meal takes many hours of effort that I do not have to spend (because I have a job). Cleaning, planning the meal, shopping, preparing it, cleaning again. I think part of that generational shift you noted is that most women work.

  56. 56.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @prostratedragon:

    ‘The Automat’ is very good.  It actually ran on TCM a year or so ago which is where I caught it.

    I remember my seeing my first reference to one was in a Hardy Boys mystery–not the rewrites of later years but the originals written in the 30s.  They’re really great reads.

    The author of those (the ghost writer) wrote a memoir decades ago and it’s a great read:

    https://www.amazon.com/Ghost-Hardy-Boys-Writer-Detectives/dp/1567927173

  59. 59.

    Geminid

    Politico Magazine has an article out today titled, ” ‘We Don’t Want to be a National Laughingstock.’ How Lauren Boebert Blew a Safe Colorado Seat.”

    As with most Magazine articles it’s long, with a lot of local detail. Colorado jackals might find it especially interesting.

  60. 60.

    Chris

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Laissez-fairee capitalism does not work neither does a command and control economy.

    The biggest fallacy in economics seems to be “this model works for this activity, therefore it should be used for all activity.”

    Twentieth-century communist-style socialism takes the basic insight that some things should be nationalized because they’re best handled by the state, and takes it to the point of absurdity by going “and therefore, everything should be nationalized.”  Modern-day Reagan-style conservatism and similar movements similarly take the basic insight that some things are best run for profit in the private sector, and takes it to the point of absurdity by going “and therefore, everything should be run like a business.”

  62. 62.

    Suzanne

    @Chris:

    We were flipping through it this weekend and, hilariously, there are very nearly no contributions by the actual politician.  Almost everything is signed “wife of,” very occasionally “daughter of.”

     
    Remember when HRC was crapped on because she said she wasn’t gonna bake cookies?! God.

    Never forget that conservative men want their wives in the kitchen baking them some cookies and will go to great lengths to restore that reality.

  63. 63.

    schrodingers_cat

    @NotMax: I have no doubt. Keynes model requires a lot of tweaking because both monetary and fiscal policies (taxation, deficit spending etc) are blunt instruments to affect the economy. Its not perfect but its the best alternative in my opinion.

  64. 64.

    Suzanne

    @Joe Falco:

    Are you talking about butler’s pantries? 

    No, not exactly. There’s been a trend in the last few years in high-end new builds to have a room — with a door or with an entrance around the corner from the main kitchen — that’s like a mini-kitchen. With a work counter, another sink, sometimes a second dishwasher, sometimes a second refrigerator. So that, if you are entertaining, you can do the actual work out of sight/earshot, and stack the dirty dishes back there, and use the “main kitchen” as an entertaining and serving space. I’ve seen these named “SCULLERY” or “PREP KITCHEN”.

    Obviously this is a big expense.

  69. 69.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Chris: I usually don’t do huge dinner parties but if I have friends over I cook for them or we go out and eat only if I am too busy too cook that week.  For a bigger crowd its usually a potluck.

  70. 70.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Suzanne: My next door neighbors, a relatively young couple, did a major remodel of their house, including a huge, expensive kitchen. Massive island, separate bar area with its own wine fridge and sink, six-burner Wolf range with its own faucet (pot filler?), Sub Zero fridge – gotta be $100k in the kitchen alone.

    Punch line: they’re never home. He’s a firefighter, she’s a nurse, they work all the overtime they can pick up so they can pay for all that reno. That’s a trophy kitchen, to me.

  71. 71.

    prostratedragon

    @NotMax:  Was one of those places Everybody Goes to — like Rick’s. I sometimes went in the 70s, mostly the one at 42nd and 3rd.

  72. 72.

    sab

    @Suzanne: My parents had an old-fashioned mansion with doors everywhere.

    My house is a 1961 split level with an open plan and I hate it. No privacy. I have to listen to the football games when I would rather being listening to the radio in the kitchen, and kitchen fumes permeate the whole house every time I fry anything. Holidays are a nightmare because everyone is hanging around underfoot when I am trying to prepare a meal.

    I don’t know who decided open plans were the best, but they were wrong. My grandmother had a door on her kitchen built in 1910, and that was a modest-sized house.

  74. 74.

    Soprano2

    @Suzanne: We eat out a lot more than we used to because my husband lost interest in cooking several years ago (might have been an extremely early sign of his approaching dementia, because he has loved to cook for as long as I’ve known him). One of my goals for last year, and continuing into this year, was to eat at home more, which means I have to cook. It’s kind of fun when I can do it myself without him hovering and watching me.

  76. 76.

    CliosFanBoy

    @p.a.:

      I tried one of the last ones in NYC about 1979. it was BLECH, foodwise, Cafeteria-level food at best.

  78. 78.

    Ken

    @M31: It’s why people had those huge old glass fronted side board cabinets that no one wants either

    I once helped friends move and spent about two hours wrapping and packing the contents of one of those. Partway through I asked, “This is nice china, is it an inheritance?”

    “No, we got that to have something in the china cabinet.”

    “Oh. It’s very nice too, was the cabinet an inheritance?”

    “No, we just wanted something so that wall didn’t look so bare.”

    Me, in my head only: “Two hours of my life….”

  79. 79.

    p.a.

    @M31: I had 2 fancy but not “fine” dinner sets that my mom had boxed but never used that she collected back in the ’30s & ’40s from movie theaters.  They gave away a piece each week. 😆

  80. 80.

    p.a.

    @AWOL: That was part of the point for the less-well-off: restaurant menu without tipping.  I assume the people doing the prep, cook, stock jobs get regular wages, not the crappy service wage.

  81. 81.

    cmorenc

    @Suzanne:

    … SuzMom got her parents’ china and crystal when they died, and now that she lives with me, it’s boxed up in my basement and I don’t want to use it (highly breakable, not dishwasher-safe). She keeps trying to give it to one of her siblings, and they don’t want it, because they are also at the downsizing stage of life. And none of my cousins want it for the same reasons I don’t want it. I keep telling her that when we have friends over, we serve pizza and charcuterie. But really, 9 times out of 10….. we go to a restaurant. The idea of formal entertaining at home is just bonkers to me.

    We too have not just my mother/grandmother’s non-diswasher safe china that hasn’t been out of the packing box(es) in 20+ years, but an elaborate set of fancy (real) silverware and serving trays and fancy candelabras (that tarnish badly unless regularly polished).   We simply have no use for any of it.  There is a large store specializing in secondhand fancy china, silverware etc. about an hour from Raleigh called “Replacements Ltd” that we plan to someday get the will and mojo to haul mom’s china and silverware to – even if they turn out to only be willing to take it on consignment rather than making even a lowball cash offer for it (which we’d likely accept).

  82. 82.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: I know that in my city the school has been working hard on this because a) they’re concerned about it and b) it affects their bottom line. I’m surprised more schools aren’t concerned, because they don’t get paid for students who don’t attend school. You’re right Democrats should jump on it but they probably won’t for the reasons it was hard for Kamala Harris in CA – people think it’s mean. It’s not mean to hold parents accountable for making sure their kids attend school.

  83. 83.

    Another Scott

    @Suzanne: Meals and meal traditions change over time.

    In my Russian Lit course in college, when we were talking about War & Peace, the prof said that the aristocracy would have something like 17 course meals.  Every day.  Then, before WWI, it got whittled down to about 9.  And it continues to drop over time.

    My MIL used to use china for dinner whenever I visited before J and I got married.  She would warm up the plates in the microwave before putting the food on them.  I would glance in and see occasional sparks from the RF coupling to the gold rim around the edges…

    ;-)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  84. 84.

    Barbara

    @cmorenc: Use the silver.  It won’t go bad or break (unlike china).  It is dishwasher safe, though it’s better not to put it in the same load as silverplate, for reasons I used to know but no longer do.

    As I said above, at some point we just decided to use the “good china” on a semi-regular basis and not worry if it breaks.

  86. 86.

    Suzanne

    @sab:

    I don’t know who decided open plans were the best, but they were wrong. 

    As I noted above, they originated in Europe, and they were first really popular in rich people’s vacation homes. And they were usually coupled with extensive glass facades. So there was these long view lines created, looking out to the landscape on multiple sides of the house. They make sense in that highly specific context. (And, as noted, the kitchen itself was not included in the big open area in many of the early open plan houses.) And, these being rich people’s homes, they were finished with expensive marble and had lots of land around them to look at.

    So, it kind of became the visual language of the time, a sense that modern life was new and needed these new ways of living. And then this coincided with a lot of those European architects coming to the U.S. after the war, right when we went on a building boom. And trends almost always start with the rich and then get watered down and become this other thing, so midcentury floor plan ads always talked about the openness and this sense of being a modern, enlightened person.

    And they’re just really difficult to live in within a tightly packed suburb, but that wasn’t the original idea. And, again, they are cheap. Most of us live in cheap houses, so we get cheap design.

  88. 88.

    CliosFanBoy

    Our “retirement home” has a big trophy kitchen, with a big, professional stove* and a big dining room. The previous owners were cateriers that entertained a lot. My wife wants to entertain groups all the time. Me? I’d rather plop on the couch with my wife, our dog, and the TV to eat. I’d rather meet friends I a restaurant. let someone else do the dishes afterward.

    * six burners, a grill, and two ovens. When mice ate the wiring, it cost 18K to replace. (EEK! little furry bastards were everywhere.)

  89. 89.

    Geminid

    @Geminid: Besides the article on Lauren Boebert, Politico Magazine has another one out today concerning another blog favorite: Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. It’s titled, “The U.S. Is Dealing With An Israeli Leader Who Is Losing Control.”  It’s fairly informative as to the interplay between U.S. Israel policy and domestic Israeli politics, I think.

    The author, Nahal Toosi, is described as:

     “…Politico’s senior foreign correspondent. She has reported on war, genocide and political chaos in a career that has taken her around the world.

  90. 90.

    Soprano2

    @Gin & Tonic: We have a six burner professional range with an oven. It’s probably 40 years old and still works great. It’s cooked a lot of meals. My husband laid out our kitchen so you’re not more than one or two steps from anything – one step from the oven to the fridge, one step from the oven to the sink, one step from the big prep surface to the sink. It’s a great kitchen to cook in. I’ve always wondered about those people who have big fancy kitchens and yet never cook in them. That big prep surface is wonderful. We have no island because there wasn’t any room for it and it would just get in the way.

  91. 91.

    Tom Levenson

    @Baud: Before the pandemic, my wife and I had people over for dinner at least once a week—it was a major form of socializing. She’s a former pro cook, I’m an enthusiastic amateur, and about ten years ago we redid our kitchen into a really effective cook’s version.  Then the pandemic hit and all that stopped.

    We’re trying to get that going again, but it is tricky.  Just getting into the habit again.  No more dinners for eight, at least not yet—it’s usually four, rarely more.  But it’s fun. And we’re trying out new stuff.

    Anyway—dinners in are not dead.

  92. 92.

    NotMax

    @Suzanne

    And they’re just really difficult to live in within a tightly packed suburb, but that wasn’t the original idea.

    On the plus side, negligible chance of minotaurs moving in next door.
    :)

  93. 93.

    Soprano2

    @sab: We don’t have an “open plan” house, but there are no doors separating our kitchen from the hall or the dining room. I think it was for circulation, having all the rooms with no doors allows the air to circulate better. We could put doors on, but that would be a PITA.

  94. 94.

    CliosFanBoy

    @NotMax:

      Even earlier, other businesses used the “free dishware” sales model. Heurich Brewery in DC in the 1910s put coupons in their cases of beer. Save them up, and you could get everything from a few place settings to an entire china set for entertaining.

    They were promoted as a way to allow working and middle-class households to have a set of “nice” china. And it was part of a campaign to separate the brewing industry as family-friendly, as opposed to the saloon-tied distillers. They also offered a free cookbook.

  95. 95.

    Baud

    @Geminid:

    An Israeli Leader Who Is Losing Control

    Let’s hope so.  I get that a change won’t immediate lead to an end to the fighting, but everyone would benefit from an Israeli leader who was not so compromised and untrustworthy.

  96. 96.

    Another Scott

    @Gin & Tonic: I don’t think I’ll ever understand the “pot filler” faucets over the stove.

    Yeah, it saves you carrying a heavy pot full of water over to the stove.  Hurray!!  But what do you do with the heavy pot of hot water when you need to empty it into the sink?  Just call the help in from the butler’s kitchen??

    If they really want to save work, then they should put a drain on the bottom of the pot, and build a sink into the stove.  That would really save some work.  Convenience!  … Or even better, make the sink into a cooking appliance!  That’s it!! They could call it a “deep fryer boiler”! [ off to check USPTO for patents.. ]

    //

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  97. 97.

    Suzanne

    Another thing about early open-plan buildings…. they weren’t frame construction. They used columns (Corbu called them piloti and surrounded them in mirrored finishes sometimes to make them visually drop away.) And then they were coupled with lots of glass curtain wall. So it was a definite look. Very striking, for sure. In a frame building with walls and punched windows, the effect is significantly compromised.

  99. 99.

    Another Scott

    @cmorenc: Replacements, Ltd is great.  We chipped a small Lenox dish a while ago.  Got an apparently new replacement for $12 plus shipping.  We filled out our Betty Crocker Chatelaine flatware with some serving spoons, etc., a few years ago too.

    We’ll probably send J’s MIL’s china and silver there eventually.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  100. 100.

    p.a.

    @NotMax: It also incentivized (ugh) customer loyalty to that theater company; one would go even if the movie wasn’t of interest if you wanted that week’s china offering.

     

    Also too, I remember mom’s S&H Green stamps activities.  Have NO memory of what might have been purchased with them.

  102. 102.

    Another Scott

    @Suzanne: I’m pretty sure the HGTV and similar renovation shows do the “open things up” on just about every show because they found that men like to see destruction (and said as much).  It’s all about trying to have the biggest audience possible for the advertisers.

    In a recent “Help I Wrecked My House” they actually added a wall, and the host spent a minute or so explaining why they did so – as if it was as wacky as gluing straw to the wall or something.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  104. 104.

    Another Scott

    @NotMax: OMG, memories.

    My father was addicted to Kraft pimento cheese stuff in the tiny glasses.  We had a zillion of those glasses – he used them for paint and screws and ….

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  105. 105.

    sab

    @Soprano2: We have a tiny island on wheels. We use it as a prep surface, and roll it into the “dining” room if it gets in our way. It has drawers for a few more kitchen items.

    Secomd year of Covid I did tax prep on it before I fixed up a basement office space.

  107. 107.

    Jeffro

    @Geminid: that’s a good piece – thanks!

    Here’s hoping that the residents of VA-05 get similarly fed up with Bob (No)Good.  He is worse than useless.

  108. 108.

    sab

    @NotMax: Our grocery used to carry a german mustard brand that comes in tiny beer mugs with handles. I had two dozen before the grocery stopped carrying them. My step daughter now has half of them. Very useful. They look like beer mugs, but they also work as measuring cups because of their geometric patterned glass.

  109. 109.

    TBone

    @Another Scott: I ordered from there when we moved and all the teacups from my grandmother’s set of gold-rimmed Doulton service for 12 disappeared.  Mom gave me her mother’s china years ago and urged me to use it every day which, of course.  The new set of teacups were reasonable and that’s a great resource.

  110. 110.

    Jeffro

    Since everyone is talking about trophy kitchens and 6-burner stoves…have any of y’all had your gas ranges converted to an induction cooktop?  If so, who/what business (ie, a local electrician or Lowe’s or Home Depot) handled your electric upgrade (if one was needed)?

    I have a pretty good idea of the induction cooktop I want to get thanks to Consumer Reports, but I think I need to also plan for getting the electric connection upgraded.

  111. 111.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Tom Levenson:

    No more dinners for eight, at least not yet—it’s usually four, rarely more. But it’s fun. And we’re trying out new stuff.

    Anyway—dinners in are not dead.

    Exactly.  When we moved back to Denver and had a pre-made social circle, “the gang” gets together (8 of us) as a gang once a month (4 couples).  We rotate who hosts.  It’s up to the host as to what’s done food wise and everybody “puts on” something, often people bring things, etc.  It’s a fun experience because there’s something gratifying about hosting a good food experience.

    It’s far more relaxed then going out and we’ve got plenty in this group that would love nothing more than to find one of Denver’s crapton of craft brewers and plop there for an afternoon.  Another “feature” of dining out is the noise level, it almost seems as if the places here, damn near all of them, feel that screaming to be heard over the dinner noise is a necessary component of the experience.

  112. 112.

    Redshift

    My parents, fortunately, are doing the downsizing/decluttering thing themselves, rather than leaving it for our generation to deal with. They had dinner parties when I was growing up, and definitely not for inviting the boss over, it was just what middle class people did.

    They had multiple sets of silver and china, because they got it as wedding presents and also inherited it. And no one in my generation wants any of it.

    I have a friend who likes to cook, and has a bunch of us over every week, but we don’t dress up it eat off fancy dishes. And when we (more rarely) have people over for dinner, it’s much the same (though we’re more likely to get takeout.)

  115. 115.

    Soprano2

    My sister kept most of my grandmother’s china; we had it sold at the auction after she died, because we didn’t want it or have a place to put it. My mother donated her good china to the C.A.R.E. thrift store. I think she used it twice in her whole life. What a waste of money for something that was never used. She didn’t like to entertain, but when a woman got married in the 1950’s she was expected to register for good china.

  116. 116.

    Redshift

    BTW, we’re going to Valley Forge this week. Planned the trip before Biden’s speech was announced, but it’s cool to be going the same week.

  117. 117.

    Soprano2

    @Suzanne: We put a pass-thru between the kitchen and dining room to open it up, because our dining room is small. In today’s world, that would be all one room. Hubby built a shelf on the pass thru that you can put food on, so that you could put food there for people without having to clutter the table. Someday someone will probably buy that house and tear out the wall completely.

  118. 118.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Jeffro: We actually converted from electric (but not induction) to gas about 10 years ago. Hated electric ranges, so we put in a big propane tank outside (we live in a no-natural-gas area) and a 6-burner Thermador range. Doing our part to despoil the environment.

    The range is really nice. I’m not going to replace it in my remaining lifetime.

  119. 119.

    NotMax

    @prostratedragon

    Complete with the plaid printed cans of liquid you’d keep in the freezer, ready to deploy at a moment”s notice for when the picnicking bug bit.

  120. 120.

    Josie

    @schrodingers_cat: ​
     Potluck is the way to go. We have extended family dinners fairly often and always potluck. We all agree that we are really good cooks when you only have to prepare one or two things.

  121. 121.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Soprano2: ​
     

    If there’s one thing this thread has shown is the ubiquity of “I have inherited china/silver that I’ve never/never will use” stories.

    I wonder if it’s the kind of thing that will make the proverbial comeback in the next generation as these things often do.

  122. 122.

    Soprano2

    Democrats should jump on this, too.

    Donald Trump is vowing sweeping changes to the nation’s economy that threaten to reignite inflation – even as the former president blames President Biden for higher prices and says he’ll bring the problem under control.

    With a substantial lead in the 2024 GOP presidential primary days before the Iowa caucuses, Trump has proposed imposing unprecedented new tariffs on trillions of dollars worth of imports and deporting undocumented workers on a vast scale. Both campaign pledges risk exacerbating the price spikes that have subsided over the last year, according to liberal and conservative economists alike, in addition to some estimates cited by the former president’s own advisers. If he’s elected, Trump could implement these policies at least in part without needing Congress to act.

  123. 123.

    frosty

    @Suzanne: ​I’ve shared many meals with my boss. Every one of them at a restaurant, or on a paper plate in a conference room while we keep working.

    Come to think of it, so have I. Same situation, and you can add standing around at Starbucks with a him and a couple of co-workers waiting to make a proposal presentation.
    But invite him for dinner at my house? I don’t know which one of us would have been more shocked!​

  124. 124.

    sab

    @cmorenc: I have my grandmother’s everyday (Spode Florentine)  that I use for entertaining instead of china. I filled it out with serving dishes and other other extras at Replacements Ltd.

  125. 125.

    Mousebumples

    Unpopular (maybe?) opinion – but I love how I made my kitchen/dining area/living room more open concept when I renovated a few years ago.

    House built ~2000, had a desk in the kitchen that’s now gone. Have columns between the kitchen and living room (speakers in them), and no official dining room, so just a table/eating area off the kitchen.

    I also moved the direction of the sink. Used to be in a peninsula, looking at the yard. Now it’s in an island, looking into the living room. I guess 20+ years ago, looking over the yard when washing dishes was helpful. Now most stuff goes in the dishwasher, lol.

  126. 126.

    skerry

    @Jeffro: Friends near me had to upgrade their electric panel. An electrician did it.

    Check out Rewiring America‘s website for their IRA Savings Calculator to see what rebates you are eligible for and other info about converting to electric appliances.

  127. 127.

    PST

    @Suzanne:

    But really, 9 times out of 10….. we go to a restaurant. The idea of formal entertaining at home is just bonkers to me.

    I am enjoying today’s topics as I clean up after last night’s dinner party, at which one one of the main topics of conversation was the curse of all the “good china” that those of us in our sixties and seventies have inherited from our parents but can’t get our children to accept. Our guests were in town helping their daughter move to Chicago for a new job, and of course she doesn’t want so much as a single saucer of any ancestor’s fancy tableware.

    Whether formal entertaining is bonkers depends a lot on how you define formal. I actually enjoy (once in a while at least) preparing a sit-down dinner for company (not too many) eaten at a big table and served with wine. Much of the work can be done in advance, so it doesn’t detract from socializing. Soups can be made the day before and heated; roasted vegetables can be chopped and seasoned, with the tray ready to slip into the oven on schedule; a roast can be roasting away before company arrives; etc. I stick with dishes and flatware that are happy to go into the dishwasher. I don’t want Mom’s china and silver any more than anyone else. And I, for one, love an open plan. I realize that it makes for an informal kind of formal entertaining, but that suits the times, and it means that the chef isn’t excluded from the cocktail hour. Of course it means giving some thought to what foods smell like while cooking (no boiling Brussels sprouts), but it’s pleasant when people walk in and say, “what’s that wonderful aroma?” I’ve fed bosses and clients this way as well as friends and relatives. I honestly think people have a good time, even if the level of formality is less than than what we see in The Gilded Age. It can be a nice change from ordering pizza or setting out nibbles to graze on.

  128. 128.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Mousebumples:

    Heh heh, our house back in Misery had what we would have called an open floor plan (we had it built in 1998) but by today’s “standards”, it would be dated.

    Open floor plans rock when done right.  Thing is, as the commentary here shows, most of how it’s done now ain’t right.  It’s cheap, it’s barren of character and ultimately, not the greatest way to live in a house unless you like the Neo-Doctors Office motif.

  129. 129.

    Quinerly

    @Baud:

    I love to give parties….and still do somewhat formal dinner parties for 12-16 a couple of times a year. But mostly do what I call, “Sunday Morning Coming Down Brunch.” People bring some sides, Mimosa and Bloody Mary fixings. I do the eggs and breakfast pork. Start at 11 AM….sometime go until 5 or 6pm. I guess some of this comes from being from such a small family, being an only child, born of 2 only children. Our family events were always just 3.

    My fun end of the summer party was a good sized “employee appreciation party” for Miguel and Bogart, the guys who helped me with my turf and flagstone project this summer. I really enjoyed meeting their families. I gave them control of the invite list and we cooked outside. Miguel’s BIL is a musician and we had great Mexican music. I do think there was some eye rolling by neighbors. We were done by 6pm since we started at noon.

    I know it’s not for everyone.  I guess I’m a “throw back” when it comes to entertaining at home.

  130. 130.

    TerryC

    @NotMax: We live in a 1970 farmhouse built by small people and our “great space” is a paired room 36′ long and 14′ wide. It has nine (9) doors into and out of it, two of which are double doors.

  132. 132.

    Suzanne

    @PST:

    Our guests were in town helping their daughter move to Chicago for a new job, and of course she doesn’t want so much as a single saucer of any ancestor’s fancy tableware. 

    So I think moving is an important aspect of this story. As we slowly transition to becoming a nation of renters and people have more in-town moves in their lives, it is challenging to own stuff like fancy china. Moving it, and a china cabinet to hold it….. really sucks. LOL.

  135. 135.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Quinerly: Brunch parties are a great idea. The last one I hosted was before COVID we had both Indian breakfast dishes and the usual egg dishes with plenty of mimosas and hot chai. A great time was had by all. I should do it again.

  136. 136.

    rikyrah

    @Suzanne:

    Open floor plans long predate HGTV. Mies van der Rohe really kicked off the idea with the Barcelona Pavilion and arguably perfected it with the Farnsworth House. Corbu did it in the Villa Savoye. Wright really brought them to America and into the middle class.

     

    Not a fan of open floor plans. Also not a fan of formal dining rooms. I’d rather have a huge kitchen than a formal dining room. I’d take that dining room space in a nanosecond.

     

    But, outside of the kitchen, I don’t need open spaces. I don’t have kids, so I don’t have to ‘look out for them- need them in my sight’. And, I just think people need their own spaces in houses.

  137. 137.

    frosty

    @Soprano2: ​We put a pass-thru between the kitchen and dining room to open it up…

    We did the same, with a countertop and cabinets (oops, glass-fronted) above. The house was built with a large opening between the living room and dining room, about the size of a pair of doors. The front hall and living room also have an opening instead of a wall but with low bookcases and a couple of columns. It’s not open plan but it’s not claustrophobic either.

  140. 140.

    rikyrah

    @Geminid:

    Politico Magazine has an article out today titled, ” ‘We Don’t Want to be a National Laughingstock.’ How Lauren Boebert Blew a Safe Colorado Seat.”

     

    LOL

  142. 142.

    HeleninEire

    @Baud: You are correct. In the 2 1/2 years that I lived in Dublin I made boatloads of friends. Not once was I invited to any of their homes. And once, when I invited them to mine, they all looked at me like I was nuts!

    All socializing was done in restaurants, movie theatres, pubs, etc.

  143. 143.

    Quinerly

    @Suzanne: ❤️

    I never was much of a griller in St. Louis. Usually left that to the men in my life. I will say I love this outside kitchen that came with this house. It hadn’t been really used in years, and I didn’t use it the first Spring and Summer. Miguel got everything cleaned up, checked, and hoses and valves replaced (critters here in the wilds are nibblers). We really didn’t get everything working until Sept. He and Bogart took over cooking for their party. I will be all over it this summer, though.

  144. 144.

    Omnes Omnibus

    I think that people here need to remember that the Balloon Juice crowd is, by and large, more introverted and less social than most people.

  145. 145.

    Geminid

    @Jeffro: Bob Good will be in the news some this month, because he is now the Freedom Caucus’s Chairman. It sounds like he may be on the losing side of Congressional fights though.

    Good has a serious primary challenger this year in state Delegate John McGuire. McGuire’s best line of attack is that Good betrayed the MAGA movement by endorsing Ron DeSantis for President.

    This will be a primary, unlike the caucus/district convention process that enabled Good to knock out Denver Riggleman in 2020, so McGuire has a real chance. Unfortunately, if he wins McGuire looks like he’d be tougher for a Democrat to dislodge.

  149. 149.

    Barbara

    @Another Scott:

    Re: Pot fillers.  You and I are on exactly the same page.  The extra plumbing is really expensive and it provides negligible benefits.  If you have difficulty carrying the load of water in a pot, you could always fill a pitcher and pour it into the pot.  The boiling hot water is still a problem — your best bet is to use a pot with a pasta colander insert so you just lift it out, similar to deep fryer baskets in commercial kitchens.

    My kids use the left over water to water the plants because they say it’s nourishing.  I just have to remember not to use salt when cooking.

  152. 152.

    Suzanne

    @Omnes Omnibus: You do know that the resale market for china, silver, and formal dining room furniture has absolutely collapsed, right? And that people eat in restaurants much more than they used to? (One stat says that 45% of Americans eat out more than once a week.) None of this is evidence of introversion.

  153. 153.

    Geminid

    @Manyakitty: Thanks, I keep making that mistake. I need to follow “Nomadic Warriors for Pritzker” more attentively. After all, they call Pritzger the Khan, not the Ghan.

  154. 154.

    Barbara

    @Suzanne: I use the term when I run into people who have high end six burner stoves and a standard oven and then some kind of “other oven,” like steam injected, and on and on — and then you find out that they almost never cook.  It’s just a trophy that they like to show off.

  158. 158.

    CliosFanBoy

    We have some of a Great-Grandmother’s formal china. All white. It’s a few special pieces and they’re in some build-in glass-door cabinets. Display purposes only.

  159. 159.

    Suzanne

    @Quinerly: Mr. Suzanne is a very good griller. I splurged on him a couple of years ago and got him a Big Green Egg. My cousin has one and raves about it, and he cooks great food on it all the time. It’s a great way to feed people when we have friends over. When I moved here to PA, I made friends with a guy in Erie. He’s so into grilling that he sent me a picture of himself grilling in the snow, in his parka and gloves. LMAO. We’re into it…. But not that into it!

  160. 160.

    TBone

    @Suzanne: I love, absolutely adore, our mid century rancher’s open floor plan.  It was renovated just before we moved in, with a chest-high wall between the kitchen and dining areas, that has a ledge just large enough to set out our dinner on plates & bowls then easily grabbed from the other side to “serve yourself” at table. It also makes getting the dirty dishes back into the kitchen a snap.  The open plan makes this small house livable and convenient and not as tiny as it would otherwise seem.

  161. 161.

    AM in NC

    @Suzanne:  I actually love our open kitchen/living room floor plan. Mr. AM and our 2 kids eat most meals at home at our kitchen table, and when we have the whole family over we have extra seating at the island so we are all in the same space.

    When I cook (most days), I like being able to interact with what’s happening in the living room and not be isolated like “the help”.  Plus, when we entertain, people naturally gravitate toward the kitchen space, so having it be more open and “flowable” works well.

    I also like a lot of light, and fewer interior walls help with that since we have a second floor that precludes skylights.

    We have a dining room we use two times a year (maybe) and is a total waste of space.

    We are working with an architect to design our new home, and I want all useable spaces and no wasted space (like everyone!), and a nicely flowing, not cavernous, open plan (with convertible office/guest rooms for escape hatch privacy spaces) is high on my list.

    Husband is a bit of a neat freak so our kitchen is usually pretty tidy.

  162. 162.

    Quinerly

    @Suzanne:

    My father was a builder after WW2 until about 1984. Used an architect. Custom homes (lots of Williamsburg/plantation style reproductions) and also your standard upgraded post WW2 ranch houses. He hated the concept of an open kitchen floor plan when they were first becoming popular. I hate them too. It’s the only thing I would change about this house. Loathe the cabinet color. Pure early 1990’s, for sure. The people I bought it from put in high end commercial grade appliances, but what I call stock cabinets and granite.

  163. 163.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Suzanne: ​
      That’s all fine, but that is a change in fashion and style. Does eating out in restaurant more often meant less entertaining at home or does it mean that the individual, couple, or family choose eat out more often? As in, “It was been a long week. I don’t feel like cooking. Do you? Okay, let’s go to Applebee’s.”

  164. 164.

    Kay

    @rikyrah:

    they really should speak up about this.

    I think so too. Take it from Republicans, who are down the rabbit hole on the ridiculous “parents rights” trope and nowhere near where most people are regarding public schooling.
    I loathed Obama’s education team but one thing they did right was truancy – they had a “15 or fewer unexcused absences a year” rule, which is also the Ohio rule.
    I wonder if schools are putting less funding into getting them to school every day because they’re pouring funds into the anti school shooting policing grift, which is a huge waste of money but great for Right wing consultants. Our public school is 50% low income (white) and we have a huge absentee problem, but we have “school resource officers” to look for school shooters!

  165. 165.

    Geminid

    @Quinerly: Can you paint the cabinets? That’s an easy and inexpensive upgrade

    Ed. I’m curious: what was the 90s color used in the kitchen. I remember working on new house back then that had an avocado colored refrigerator!

  166. 166.

    narya

    My from-a-distance “gift” to my mother for Christmas was roping my nephew into promising my mom that she could use her fancy dishes, and that nephew would make sure they got washed by hand. He did some of the cooking, too. I’ve also made it clear that I don’t want her fine china, at all.

    The contractor who did my kitchen reno said that that the fancier the kitchen they did, the less likely it would be used. I, on the other hand, in part bought my place because one side of the kitchen is a long butcher block counter. It’s a relatively small kitchen (when the building was built, there was no refrigeration, just ice that came in through what was the butler’s pantry and is now a closet in the back bedroom, i.e. the maid’s room). I do like to cook for friends, or I did before Covid; the last few Beer From the Basement get-togethers were charcuterie spreads. I made dessert, the bread, and some of the toppings (caramelized onions, roasted garlic, etc.), and others could bring meats or cheeses to complement. It worked well.

  167. 167.

    Barbara

    @Mousebumples: We renovated in the late 1990s so that the kitchen overlooks the family room, and we have the openness that comes with the cook not being shut out of conversation, but my dining and other living areas are separated from the kitchen with small, door size openings.  When we had multiple people trying to work at home, it was possible for one person to work at the kitchen island and another to work in the dining room without overhearing each other.  If we had more initiative, we could make another office like area downstairs as well.

  168. 168.

    Suzanne

    @AM in NC:

    When I cook (most days), I like being able to interact with what’s happening in the living room and not be isolated like “the help”. 

    Our Arizona house had an open plan and I hated it. I like listening to music (and dancing) in the kitchen when I cook, and I don’t want to disrupt whatever is happening in the living room. And when I’m in the living room, if I’m having a conversation or watching a movie or doing yoga, I don’t want to hear the kitchen. This house that we bought in Pittsburgh has an archway between the dining room and kitchen, but the kitchen is kind of off in its own corner. I was happy to find this house, because lots of flippers have bought houses here and knocked the walls out!

  169. 169.

    Joe Falco

    @Suzanne: I know what you are talking about. I review building plans for a living, and it’s been my experience in the Atlanta area that builders and developers have labeling these rooms as butler’s pantries or kitchens. And oh yes, I see these plans come in for lots in the wealthier areas in the city, particularly the Buckhead area.

  170. 170.

    Quinerly

    @Suzanne: When I was practicing in the firm I was with for years and years before going in-house at a bank, I ended up giving most of the firm and client parties. Looking back, I don’t know how I did it when it came to time. My St. Louis City Victorian was a great party house and mostly an oddity for the people I worked with and for. They all were in subdivisions, as were most clients. For the firm parties, the partners gave me a budget and time off to pull it all together. Granted, very unusual for a lawfirm but it was a different kind of firm….partners felt the clients that they invited liked a personalized touch.

  171. 171.

    Suzanne

    @Omnes Omnibus: Like all things, it’s probably a mix of both. I just think it’s a strange conclusion to make. Literally, evidence shows that people are spending more time outside the home. And formality is on the decline in all aspects of life.

  172. 172.

    Suzanne

    @Joe Falco:

    butler’s pantries 

    LAWL that’s so funny. Like anyone has a butler! I’ve never seen them labeled that way, but I guess it works as well as anything else.

  174. 174.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @Barbara:

    As I said above, at some point we just decided to use the “good china” on a semi-regular basis and not worry if it breaks.

    Having inherited two full sets and having our own (yes, we are easily that old), we also decided to use the good china for everything that is not just us (e.g., bookclub dinners, birthdays, etc.).

  176. 176.

    Quinerly

    @cmorenc:

    I actually used to know The Replacements guy. Can’t think of his name right now. He might even be dead. He has to be close to 80 or older. Had a good older friend in NC who did the antique circuit when I was in undergrad and law school. I would travel around with her in the summer sometimes to shows and met him thru her. He was just pitching the idea of “Replacements” and was from the Greensboro area. His first big break was getting exposure in “Southern Living” mag….an article, then all the ads he ran. The china museum at “Replacements” is cool. Now you have me wanting to find out if he’s still around. It was a different era….he was the first openly Gay man I ever met….around 1978/1979.

  177. 177.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Suzanne: I was just observing that people should, perhaps, avoid drawing broader conclusions about societal trends based off the preferences and habits of the denizens of this blog.  As far as formality goes, I agree and said so.  But a trend away from formal entertaining in the home does not necessarily equal a trend away from entertaining in the home.

  179. 179.

    Miss Bianca

    @randy khan:

    the IRS money is just changing the timing of what previously was agreed to.  (Still a bad idea, but it’s the same bad idea that was in the previous agreement.)

    Would you mind elaborating? I’m afraid I’m sadly ignorant about all this and was just “oh, noes, less money to enable the IRS to go after the owning class!”

  181. 181.

    Kay

     

    It’s hard to explain to people who are settling their parents estates – selling the contents of homes after people die-that no one wants china. Auctioneers talk a lot about how people believe some personal property is valuable when it is not. Auctioneers as a group are very bad at explaining this to people – the auctioneer rule is everything is worth what people will pay for it and they don’t understand why this is upsetting to people, so it falls to lawyers to explain. They get really mad! “This is _ china! How could it have gone for 21 dollars?!” The same with tools. SOME tools are worth something. Unless you’re a professional tool user of some kind – machinist, mechanic, carpenter, stonemason – YOUR tools are probably not worth anything.

  182. 182.

    Quinerly

    @Geminid: going to look into painting them. They are very modern, no hardware. I guess you would call them blonde. There are a lot of them…almost excessive and an over sized island. I am leaning towards a gray, but the floors all over the house are a dark gray slate. I haven’t gotten around to talking to anyone in the know. Swore no projects here when I bought. Never, say never.

  184. 184.

    Quinerly

    @Suzanne: this house is really set up for outside entertaining. Large kiva style fireplace. I need to get the chimney cleaned on that and some of the stucco cracks repaired. It’s been so dry in Santa Fe. As you know many year drought. I have been hesitant to use it. Sparks.

    I do have a smokeless Tiki fireplace in JoJo’s side yard. Really like that. Would highly recommend them. Cheaper than Solo.

  186. 186.

    Soprano2

    @Geminid: Ugh, just the mention of avocado green made me shudder a little. My parents redid our whole house in the early 1970’s; every room had avocado green in it, with gold featuring prominently also. Those colors will never be in a house I live in! Horror…….

  187. 187.

    Suzanne

    @Quinerly: That blonde maple? Super-90s look. I personally really like it. If the wood is good….maybe don’t paint? Stain instead?

    I see videos on my FB feed where a refinisher takes a lovely piece of wood furniture and strips it and paints it, and I die inside.

  190. 190.

    Kay

    The thing to remember is objects that last a long time- china, ordinary hand tools, ordinary furniture, metal (expensive) patio furniture (don’t get me started) – last a long time for everyone so there’s TONS of “that” out there. Honestly they probably never have to produce another homeowner screwdriver or hammer- just the existing supply will last us for 100 years. Everyone needs to hand that shit off off to a younger person, immediately, and younger people have to stop buying new.

  191. 191.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Suzanne:

    Restaurant culture is such an interesting change in American life over the last 70 or so years. I’ve been thinking about it because SuzMom got her parents’ china and crystal when they died, and now that she lives with me, it’s boxed up in my basement and I don’t want to use it (highly breakable, not dishwasher-safe). She keeps trying to give it to one of her siblings, and they don’t want it, because they are also at the downsizing stage of life. And none of my cousins want it for the same reasons I don’t want it.

    My wife and I asked for and got wedding china when we married back in 1991, and we did use it off and on in the earlier years of our marriage.  These days we only have an occasion to bring it out once every year or two.

    My impression is that younger people, like anyone under 50, have little if any interest in china and silverware. You can barely give china away.  Used sets of china go for peanuts these days.

    My parents loved to have people over for dinner, probably did that 2-3 times a month, and would often pull out the good china for that.  If we have people over, it’s usually at a time of year when we can have dinner out on the deck, where it’s totally informal.  The world has changed, and we’ve changed with it.

    I keep telling her that when we have friends over, we serve pizza and charcuterie.

    I first ran into the word ‘charcuterie’ just two weeks ago, when a charcuterie tray was part of the Christmas dinner.  My wife described it as “an adult Lunchable.” I think she nailed it!

  192. 192.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Quinerly:

    Sounds like a BJ Meetup in the making. ;)

    Old college friend was up this past weekend from Santa Fe.  Did the trip in his Mach-E EV…in the winter, doing 80mph on I-25…with a bike rack and bike on the back.  Let’s just say it wasn’t the most optimal way to use an EV.

    But we’re due for a trip down there sometime this year in our Bolt.  Would be nice to see/meet some of the commentariat other than the one, small meeting we had here in Denver pre-plague.

  194. 194.

    Suzanne

    @lowtechcyclist:

    I first ran into the word ‘charcuterie’ just two weeks ago, when a charcuterie tray was part of the Christmas dinner.  My wife described it as “an adult Lunchable.” I think she nailed it! 

    We call it “Luncheonables”.

  195. 195.

    Barbara

    @Suzanne: It’s always struck me how many men who are next to useless in the kitchen rev up the grill and take over every aspect of meal planning — so long as it can be cooked outdoors on an open flame.  If you want a really fun 30 minutes, watch a few episodes of BBQ University.

    I worked with a guy who had three bothers, whose mother died when they were all in elementary school, and he said that his father and brothers cooked every night on the outside grill, whatever the weather.  He remembered standing outside under an umbrella in the rain as his father made dinner.

  196. 196.

    Layer8Problem

    @Soprano2:  As god is my witness, somewhere before 1983 you could buy IBM mainframe equipment, peripherals at least, in harvest gold, avocado green, cerulean blue, and the like, to match your Seventies design kitchen just off the machine room.  Every smart shop needed an avocado green 3480 cartridge tape drive.

  197. 197.

    Geminid

    @Quinerly: I like painting so long as I don’t have to do too much at once, like day after day.

    And I enjoy looking at those cards paint stores have, with the different shades of color. I guess I don’t have a very busy outer life; my big Holiday thrill was looking at the different Christmas light displays in my section of Greene County. They’re still up, but not for much longer.

  198. 198.

    Suzanne

    @Barbara: Yeah, I’ve definitely seen that. Fortunately, Mr. Suzanne is pretty good in the kitchen. He’s definitely a better grill master than I am, though.

  199. 199.

    Mr. Bemused Senior

    @Kay:Everyone needs to hand that shit off off to a younger person, immediately, and younger people have to stop buying new.

    What?? And destroy the economy?! /s

    When I met Bemused Senior she had a 1970 Datsun 510 on blocks since 1973. We finally sold it for $100 in 1989 having driven it for many years. They don’t make them like that any longer.

  200. 200.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Kay:

    Honestly they probably never have to produce another homeowner screwdriver or hammer- just the existing supply will last us for 100 years. Everyone needs to hand that shit off off to a younger person, immediately, and younger people have to stop buying new.

    I’m not handing off my stuff, I’ll still be using it for another 10-15 years, and will still keep a pared down version of it when we move into an apartment in a retirement community.  I’ll pass it on to my son someday if he has any interest.

    But my FIL in Florida has an extensive tool set, which he used to be able to use every bit of, but unfortunately his failing health makes it hard for him to do so anymore.  It’s far more than my BIL (who lives just a few blocks from FIL) would want, and I don’t have the need or the room for his tool collection on top of my own – not to mention the cost and hassle of transporting it to Maryland.  Hopefully there are people in the extended family down there that can use it.

  201. 201.

    Barbara

    @Quinerly: Blond wood keeps things light.  My cabinets are light, though not blond.  You might consider some kind of glaze or frosting that makes them less glaring but keeps the lightness.

    We ended up having to cut down a maple tree in our yard after it was struck by lightning.  Through our neighborhood message board we found a furniture maker nearby and he gave us information about getting the wood kilned so that it could be made into furniture, and he made us a coffee table and three smaller side tables.  It’s super light, but of course we love it because it is the remains of the tree in our backyard.

  202. 202.

    lowtechcyclist

    On another random note, we weren’t terribly surprised to see Valentine’s Day stuff in Dollar Tree in FL a few days before Christmas.  But today my wife saw Easter decorations in the Dollar Tree up here.  Easter isn’t until March 31 – that’s twelve weeks away! – and there’s Valentine’s Day in between. Crazy.

  203. 203.

    Ksmiami

    @PST: I just had a pre New Years brunch buffet for 20 ppl. Easy prep and bonus easy cleanup in the middle of the day. Plus everyone loves brunch.

  208. 208.

    Kay

    @lowtechcyclist:

    I suggest to my clients that they extend the circle of people they give things to if they have a lot of stuff and are moving to a smaller place. I’m doing this myself- moving to a lake cottage from a big house. Look for an opportunity to give it away. The guy who did my driveway mentioned that his wife cans so I gave him all my canning stuff. I haven’t used it in 25 years. If you have what auctioneers call “mall or department store” jewelry – mass produced- even if it’s precious metals or stones- just give it away to someone you like right now. It won’t get anything at a sale. It lasts forever and they sell a LOT of it. If there’s someone you run into who will wear it or enjoy it just give it to them. If you limit to “relatives” you won’t get rid of enough.

  210. 210.

    Mr. Bemused Senior

    @Layer8Problem: alas, no, just a standard CA plate.

    Did you know that IEFBR14 had a series of bugs? 4 in all as I recall. The last was a documentation error, the others were real. Proof that all software has bugs.

  211. 211.

    PST

    @Ksmiami: I’m definitely in favor of buffets too, and as the number of guests goes up there’s no alternative. I’m just holding out for the idea that there is still fun to be had in inviting people over for a sit-down dinner — and not just on Thanksgiving, either. One trouble with Thanksgiving is that the size of the crowd can get out of control leaving no other choice than a buffet. I notice, though, that at the same time God has been increasing the number of dish sets coming our way He has been decreasing the number of place settings we need at the big family events.

  212. 212.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Kay: I think we need to take back the “Parents’ Rights” narrative entirely and make it our own.

    We believe in Parents’ Rights:

    • To have our daughters (and Transgender sons) have full autonomy and control of their bodies.

    • To give our Transgender kids the gender-affirming care they need for their health and well-being, without interference from the government.

    • To have our LGBTQ kids treated with dignity and respect in schools.

    • To have our children see themselves represented in the history curricula in our classrooms (Black, Native/Indigenous, Latinx, LGBTQ, history etc.)

    • To have all children live without the fear of school shootings.

    • To have all children be able study without the distraction of an empty stomach.

    Etc.

  214. 214.

    UncleEbeneezer

    I wish we had the space to have dinner parties, but our place is only like 600 square feet.  And while we have a small outdoor space that could be used to maximize the enjoyment of SoCal weather, we also have a bunch of loud, annoying neighbors that makes that less than ideal.

  215. 215.

    Kay

    @UncleEbeneezer:

    I don’t think people (yet) realize how radical the conservative vision for “public”education is. Completely unregulated. 100% “parents choice”. So if you’re in one (publicly funded but not public) school and you are held accountable for truancy you just move to another school where they believe parents should “decide” when and if children attend school, or no school at all! Announce your children are “unschooled” and never give them any education at all- fine with Right wingers.

    It’s going to be a fucking disaster. In counties like mine – poor and working class rural whites- they are producing an entire generation who won’t have any schooling at all. Democrats can get ahead of this.

  217. 217.

    artem1s

    @Suzanne: ​ 

    ETA: the original open plans were in rich people’s vacation homes in the countryside, and assumed that there was domestic help to keep everything clean.

    Wrong – CLOSED rooms assumed there was domestic help to work in the kitchen and carry the food out to a formal dining room. The help lived upstairs – usually the third floor. They weren’t allowed in common areas.
    Open plan became the norm favored by a lot of families because of eat-in kitchens and they let the cook/homeowner also monitor children while preparing meals. Also for Entertaining – remember when everyone was crammed into a small four walled kitchen? or worse, the women were segregated to the kitchen while the men hung out in whatever room the TV is in? Or they had conversations about ‘men’s work’ in the smoking room? The open plan was at least in part developed because it was more convenient for working women.

  218. 218.

    laura

    If anyone is interested- here’s the video of our teensy galley kitchen remodel. Our house was built in 1946 and the owners remodeled the kitchen in the 70’s. Apparently there was a dispute with the “contractor” as the job had no completion date and how the house didn’t burn down and kill us in our beds was a miracle because it was not grounded. But I was ready to move out and get an apartment to get a functioning kitchen when spouse, getting the crockpot down from over the stove, got a big ole electric shock to his nether parts that moved us to get a redo. This kitchen is the most beautiful thing I’m ever going to own and it’s a dream to cook in. https://youtu.be/bCeqfQF5t2k?si=U5D6lMyrs345B_uk

  219. 219.

    rikyrah

    @lowtechcyclist:

    My impression is that younger people, like anyone under 50, have little if any interest in china and silverware. You can barely give china away.  Used sets of china go for peanuts these days.

     

    Don’t think anyone young even understands the concept of ‘ good china’.

  221. 221.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @rikyrah: Thank you, thank you.  The obvious response to Conservatives’ concern for “Parents’ rights” is always: which parents???

  222. 222.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: I worked through my sister’s clothes myself, because I knew at an auction or estate sale I wouldn’t get anything. I think I made over $2,000 selling her clothes and shoes to resale places. The women at Clothes Mentor started drooling as soon as they saw I had shoes to sell! She had a lot of nice, expensive stuff – Miss Me Jeans, expensive high heeled shoes and boots, stuff like that. I doubt I would have gotten more than $500 for all of it at an estate sale, if even that much. I still ended up donating a bunch of it, some to a career closet at a temp agency and some to places like DAV. I couldn’t wear any of it, she was smaller than I was.

  223. 223.

    Suzanne

    @artem1s:

    Wrong – CLOSED rooms assumed there was domestic help to work in the kitchen and carry the food out to a formal dining room. The help lived upstairs – usually the third floor. They weren’t allowed in common areas. 

    We’re talking about different eras and countries. You’re talking more about up to WWI. The first open plans were homes like Villa Savoye, built in the late 1920s, and it was a country retreat. (Servants’ quarters on the basement level.) Open-plan houses in the U.S. were mostly a little bit later. Some H. H. Richardson stuff in the late 19th century, but more Mies van der Rohe and Wright after WWII. And sometimes the kitchens were open, even in those homes. Fallingwater has a separate kitchen, many of the Neutra houses do not. And those families absolutely had hired help. At Fallingwater, the higher levels were for the Kaufman family and their guests and the servants literally had a separate building.

  224. 224.

    Quinerly

    I just got back to the this dead thread. JoJo thought he was as perfect as I tell him he is and tried to walk on water. Fell into the deep koi pond, but somehow pull himself out. I didn’t see it happen. He ran in like a banshee dripping wet with algae strings.

    I just took a shower with him. He thinks I am weird. It was the most efficient way to deal with him….double shower with glass doors.

    Meet up in Santa Fe when we can pull it together. Cheryl Rofer is around. We’ll include her.

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