Kristi Noem, Governor of the Sunshine State, girlfriend to Corey Lewandowski, and Trump sycophant vying for the VP spot, has been leaving some pretty big skid marks in the sheets recently.
First, the citizens of South Dakota had to pay $300k, and the South Dakota Health Secretary had to issue an apology, to the Transformation Project, a state contractor that was going to hire a community health worker for the transgender community. Kristi engineered dropping the Transformation Project as soon as the whole MAGA world decided that trans people were the designated object of hate.
Second, she’s admitted that her stunt sending the South Dakota National Guard to the Texas border was a $1.3 million “gift” to Texas.
Finally, she’s been banned from the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation because she claimed that drug cartels are murdering people on the reservation, and specifically that a gang called the “Ghost Dancers” is responsible for some of the violence. There’s no evidence that they are, plus invoking the name of the Ghost Dancers is a major insult to the Ogalala Sioux Tribe because it’s a reference to a ceremony that was one of the pretexts for the Wounded Knee massacre on the Pine Ridge reservation.
On the bright side, she’s got a new book, the title of which is probably a reference to her political future in South Dakota after all the stunts she’s pulled. The new book comes out in May, and her last book was published in June, 2022, so she’s really working that angle, too. She’s pretty much an unthreatening lightweight, so I think she has a pretty good chance of being Trump’s VP pick.
Baud
Book title reminds me of DeSantis’s Never Back Down superpac. They backed down.
Relatedly, i just realized that the GOP has hired Steven Seagal to come up with all their slogans.
dmsilev
For a second, I thought this was going to be about Arizona, but then I remembered that that political bed-shitter is named Kari.
It’s hard to keep track; there are so many of them. j
Omnes Omnibus
The Ghost Dancer thing is insane. Jebus.
Jeffro
Kristi Noem has published not one but two more books than me (sob)
I hate this timeline.
dmsilev
@Baud:
They’re oh-so-close to Rick Astley.
SiubhanDuinne
Ugh. What a depressing thought.
Or, at least, it would be if I believed that TIFG had an icicle’s chance in Hades of winning in November. And I don’t really see what Noem might bring to the ticket to help make that happen.
Baud
@dmsilev:
I do think “No way out” would be an excellent slogan for modern Republican) party.
Pete Downunder
@Jeffro: However she has sold about as many
Kristine
Looking forward to her future as a not-so-bestselling OAN correspondent.
Also wondering why her husband hasn’t gone the messy public divorce route. Unless he’s one of the sources for the Post story.
SiubhanDuinne
@dmsilev:
Inorite? Kari, Kristi, Kim, Kyrsten ….
trollhattan
Speaking of ghouls and their ghoulish ways, Bibi has his fucking war, his fucking war is very precious to him, and fuck the fucking hell out of anybody trying to take Bibi’s fucking war away.
Note: “total victory” was not, is not, will never be technically possible. Certainly not in “months.”
Beginning to think that Netanyahu is trying to assist Trump’s election, as he stymies the administration’s attempt to craft a ceasefire and get the hostages back (come to think of it, like Reagan and Iran). Do we have the spine to finally cut off military assistance?
NotMax
Ghost writers in the big sky.
//
comrade scotts agenda of rage
It’s deja vu all over again, ala Caribou Barbie.
A conversation thread here in BJ back in 2016:
The next 5 years were a succession of low points in our democracy. And yup, the party became Sorry Sarah at warp speed during that time frame.
Regarding Noem’s attitude toward the Native American residents of SD, I dated a girl (briefly) in college back in the early 80s, she was from SD. Her downright virulent bigotry and hatred of Native Americans then was an eye opening experience and clearly still “informs” at least one other white person from the state and most likely a lot more. She didn’t even try to hide it.
Mike in NC
She may be a MAGA pin-up, but Fat Bastard is too much of a sexual predator to pick a female running mate. He once approached her about putting his bloated, ugly mug on Mount Rushmore and she assumed he was joking. He wasn’t.
H.E.Wolf
Are analogies still a thing on standardized tests?
Vice President Harris is to Gov. Noem as Speaker Emerita Pelosi is to Speaker Johnson.
trollhattan
I see from the book cover that Noem is one of many who believe “Yellowstone” is a documentary.
Alison Rose
I thought “No Going Back” was her weird way of saying she doesn’t do anal. More likely she thinks she’s being clever by stealing a pro-choice slogan.
Bitch.
H.E.Wolf
Gov. Noem is almost a decade older now, than Gov. Palin was in 2008.
I suspect that a woman in her early 50s would give Republicans less of a frisson than a woman in her early/mid 40s.
theturtlemoves
My wife has a 605 Roots sticker on her car and bought one for me. I have not, nor will I, adorn my vehicle with it. It’s just increasingly embarrassing to be from that state originally, even with the natural beauty and the handful of Democrats still fighting the good fight in good old Lawrence County.
Martin
Looks like consumers have decided that the $17 McDonalds meal wasn’t Biden’s fault after all and is actually McDonalds just being greedy (can you imagine?)
Martin
@H.E.Wolf: Well, thankfully the Constitution prevents them from getting the Gaetz-certified 17 year old VP that they really want.
Betty Cracker
Ugh, I hate it when reactionaries steal feminist slogans or appropriate feminist critiques in the service of evil (the sign on Noem’s desk). Nancy Mace (R-SC), who upon casual appraisal seems Noem’s equal in intellectual heft and strategic acumen (i.e., that of a bag of hair and toenail clippings), does the same thing, and it gets on my last nerve every time.
Ocotillo
In normal times, I would relish watching a debate between MVP and Noem but alas, these are not normal times. I doubt there will be debates this election cycle.
Dan
I look forward to her next book Side Piece.
H.E.Wolf
Ewwwwwwww.
[You’re not wrong; hence my revulsion.]
trollhattan
@Martin: Like self-checkout, C-suite self-delusion often hurts rather than helps corporate ‘Murka.
Who could have guessed cranking up prices would not generate enough profits to make up for shedding vast numbers of customers? Can I get a Laffer curve up in here?
HumboldtBlue
@Dan:
Damn! That struck home.
trollhattan
@H.E.Wolf: Having never heard her speak I cannot guess if she’s got that chatty “Hackee mohm” schtick going for her.
eclare
@dmsilev:
LOL
Freemark
@Martin: Here in York, Pa I can get a full traditional breakfast ( two eggs made to order, homefries, side of meat, toast and unlimited coffee) for less than a McDonalds meal of a crappy egg McMuffin, hash brown, and small coffee.
kindness
Honestly, I can’t get beyond she calls hersef an upstanding Christian and has chosen Corey Lewandowski to bonk regularly and have an affair with. I mean, Yuk! What a dumb ass.
eclare
@Mike in NC:
I don’t think he’ll pick her because she would definitely steal the MAGA spotlight. He needs a lightweight unnoticeable dud, like Dense.
Old School
I was trying to figure out what a clock set to 3:30 on the book cover was supposed to symbolize, but am drawing a blank. Google turns up Angel Numbers, but no idea if Noem is into those.
TBone
Jeff Tiedrich recently pointed out that Rump will not choose anyone with a name that has more syllables than his (it would detract from his dominance). So she’s in the running.
West of the Rockies
@SiubhanDuinne:
Kellyanne…
eclare
@TBone:
Plus he probably couldn’t pronounce it correctly. Didn’t he mispronounce Stefanik recently?
gene108
Is Kristi taller than Trump? She looks kind of tall. Maybe taller in heels? I don’t know.
I do know Trump’s not picking a VP that’s taller than him. I’m not sure how many VP hopefuls understand this.
TBone
Maybe the RNC will be too broke to buy boxes of her book to stack up as window shades in their empty offices.
eclare
@Freemark:
I can get about all that here for just a little more, once I add in a nice tip.
TBone
@eclare: yes 😆
Baud
@gene108:
She’d probably be willing to have surgery to knock a few inches off her tibia.
Kay
Trump has to rescue the person – like he rescued Pence, who was tanking in Indiana and would have lost his re-elect – because then the person owes him. It has to be a person with almost no ego and none of their own ideas. I don’t think any of the would-be celebrity/Fox News personality GOP women fit that bill.
They cannot outshine Trump. That’s the one qualification.
Jager
@Alison Rose:
My niece is a doctor at a large regional hospital in Sioux Falls after weeks of 14-hour days she and her COVID team met in the hospital parking lot one night after work and drank a few beers. Noem was the topic of conversation, the medical pros came up with a long list of intrusive and uncomfortable tests they would order for her if she ever showed up for treatment. Now that she is fucking Lewandoski, she’ll need to be tested for STDs.
My niece says with all of Noem’s plastic surgery she looks younger than her college age daughter.
Baud
@Kay:
Writing a book would seem to be disqualifying.
JWR
@eclare:
I’ve been thinking about this and wondered if there were any chance he’d pick one of “his” Black guys. Two names that come up for me are Larry Elder, though he’s probably a bit too smart or self aware to take the spot, and the other is Tim Scott, who’s already shown us that he’s an A+ Trump groveler, willing to sell his soul as he kneels before his Godhead, one Donald J. Trump.
trollhattan
@Baud: Set it up like a kidney donation–she flies to Korea and donates N inches of femur to a height-desiring local. Win-win.
Remaining question is whether she can do the Pence “look.”
TBone
Pepperidge Farm remembers
The Republican National Committee shelled out nearly $95,000 for copies of Donald Trump Jr.’s book, which helped land it atop the New York Times’ bestseller list.
Alison Rose
@Jager:
Nah. Not at all. As someone who has been mistaken for being younger my whole life, there is a big difference between someone who actually looks younger than their real age, and someone desperately trying to look younger than their real age. Noem looks like what she is: a middle-aged woman hoping to trick you into thinking she’s still in her 30s.
trollhattan
@JWR: “My Blacks love me, Tim?”
I could see it.
Alison Rose
@Baud: LOL forever at the idea that Noem wrote a single word of it.
TBone
@JWR: according to Tiedrich, it’s Tim Scott.
Baud
@trollhattan:
Lobotomy, along with the shortening?
Parfigliano
He will pick it cause he wants to fuck it
smith
@Baud: She’s a Republican, no additional lobotomy needed.
TBone
Whoever it is, loser stink isn’t the only stench they’ll have to worry about.
smith
@Parfigliano: “It??” Even Republican women are humans.
Scout211
Here is a side-by-side photo of the two of them, so no, it doesn’t look like she is taller than Trump. But her face and lips look very different in this photo from 2018 than they look on her book cover in mistermix’s post above.
TBone
@smith: hmmm. Tough call.
Barbara
@Kay: George Santos? I mean, I know it’s a longshot but he definitely checks the the “needs to be rescued” box. Although I think he might not have been born in the U.S.
Bex
@JWR: I can’t imagine TFG picking a woman or a Black man for VP. It’s a horrible thought, but it could be J.D. Vance, who has been kissing up to his Orange God lately.
Barbara
@Bex: Vance might have to shave. Apparently there are a lot of women (and for all I know men) who are less likely to vote for a man with facial hair.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Bex: I can believe JD Vance would be a Trump pick.
Kay
@Barbara:
Lol. A bland, kind of uncharasmatic Republican who takes orders. All of these women are insanely ambitious wanna-be celebrities. He would never allow another giant ego in the room with him.
sab
@Barbara: It didn’t hurt him in Ohio.
I am almost hoping Trump does pick him. That might hurt Vance’s reelection chances next time in Ohio. Not the Trump connection, but a lack of interest in his current job.
JWR
@Bex: Probably so, but what if it’s a White Black man, which spot could adequately be filled by Tim Scott, I would think.
TBone
@JWR: bingo
Geminid
@trollhattan: Israelis have some choice things to say about Netanyahu. TV anchor Arad Nir was interviewing Noam Dam, whose cousin Ofer Kalderon’s fate is unknown after being taken hostage October 7:
There are many hostage family members, but only 7 living retired IDF Chiefs of Staff. One of them, Dan Halutz, delivered a hip check to the PM when he called for the resignation of:
Halutz was referring to Netanyahu’s older brother Yonaton, who was the sole Israeli killed during the hostage rescue at Entebbe.
Two things to keep in mind about Netanyahu’s public statements, though. First, he no longer has sole control of Israel’s major decisions, but has one vote of three in Israel’s War Cabinet. His public statements serve his goal of salvaging his political position, and Israelis understand this.
Second, Netanyahu “lies as he breaths,” as journalist Noga Tarnolposky put it. She cited a New York Times article saying that in presenting its defense at the International Court of Justice, Israel declassified over 30 documents- mostly War Cabinet minutes- to show that Netanyahu’s public statements were contradicted by his actions: the “our Prime Minister is a liar” defense.
But I do not expect Biden to push Netanyahu out of office. There will be a new government by summer I believe, and it will have some serious business ahead of it. Netanyahu and his henchmen Smotrich and Ben-Gvir will be on the outside, and Biden doesn’t want them telling Israelis, “This is Joe Biden’s government, not yours.” I realize this is very frustrating to people, but it’s better in the long run that Israelis, and not the US, own their government.
Trivia Man
@trollhattan: If trump is “doing a republican” like nixon in vietnam 1968 or reagan in iran 1980… i doubt orange man has the same level of competence in his henchmen. And leaks are much easier today. Even FTFNYT might actually run that story if it does come out.
Parfigliano
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: I grew up in SD and left in ’89. I go back a couple times a year. Hatred of Native Americans is wide spread and shockingly out in the open.
gvg
The Sunshine State is Florida, not South Dakota. Its at least a semi official state motto for decades and on some official documents. Also, I think our license plates.
trollhattan
@Barbara: George Santos was simultaneously born in the United States and every other nation. George Santos is omnipresent and yet, not here at all, being more precious than we can ever deserve.
Trump-Santos: Let there be light
Geminid
@trollhattan: The Biden administration supports the ceasefire Qatar is trying to broker, but not one that requires Israel to withdraw from Gaza and end hostilities. Hamas says it will accept nothing less than the latter, but the Qataris think they can bring them around to their proposal. If they can, there will be intense pressure on the Israeli government to accept it, from both inside and outside the country.
Kay
@trollhattan:
Just sickening. Meanwhile the civilian deaths continue unabated and the United States can’t seem to get the money to get Gazans any appreciable humanitarian aid. Air drops from a US volunteer org and the Jordanian and Netherlands governments are nice for feel-good tv, but this is a potential famine. It’s a catastrophe. 25,000 civilian deaths and counting. It’s more than twice as many civilians dead as in Ukraine, according to this UN calculation and there are 50 million in Ukraine and 2 million in Gaza. I don’t know that people understand the scale of this.
topclimber
@Alison Rose: I think she stole the “Well behaved women rarely make history” from Hillary.
🐾BillinGlendaleCA
@trollhattan: Koreans are traditionally pretty tall by east Asian standards. A couple of generations were pretty short due to the Japanese occupation and the war with the DPRK.
Princess
@Kay: I’m not saying there’s any number of civilian deaths that are okay but it’s not 25,000 civilian deaths. Probably not anything close to that.
1) The agency that reports these numbers makes no distinction between civilian and Hamas military deaths. We simply have no clue how many of them are civilian.
2) The same agency that reports the number of deaths, announced 500 people were killed by an Israeli attack on a hospital within minutes of it happening. Within hours we learned that it was not the Israelis and it couldn’t have been 500. So you may think their numbers are gospel but I…don’t.
The whole thing is awful but we don’t have to swallow Hamas framing whole cloth.
glc
@Baud: Alternating with “Hell is Other People.”
trollhattan
@🐾BillinGlendaleCA:
Very true and there’s still a fixation on becoming leggy, for want of a more applicable term. There’s even a thriving surgery tourism business.
https://drdonghoon.com/lengthening/limb-lengthening-center/
wjca
Are we sure that clause is “self-executing”? :-)
Besides, the Constitution only says the President must be 35. No age restriction for the VP. (Of course, if the President dies, or is otherwise unable to serve, the top job would have to go to the Speaker of the House. Who, note, has to be 25, but might not be 35.)
Old School
@gvg:
South Dakota was “The Sunshine State” before they changed it to “Mount Rushmore State.”
Here’s an old flag.
Baud
@Old School:
I would have gone with the Badlands State.
David 🏈 Mahomes! 🏈 Koch
@Baud: Mittens’ campaign book was titled “No Apologies”
So it’s a theme the haters respond to in focus groups: “no” or “wont”
[Here’s Obama and company laughing at the book (photo)]
Kay
@Princess:
20,000 is somehow better? So twice as many as in Ukraine, a country of 50 million? It’s appalling and it is incredibly disappointing to me that most of the Democratic electeds use this stilted, boilerplate language when referencing 5000 dead children. Not talking about it won’t make it go away. There is going to be a reckoning when this is over and the United States is not going to be proud of how we measured up. I think the Arab Americans who are upset and feel profoundly betrayed by their country are 100% correct.
If this goes on until the summer -which is probably too hopeful- President Biden better replace Michigan in the electoral college count. The 100k or so Arab Americans he got last are never, ever going to vote for him. I don’t blame them a bit. They don’t have a political party.
Ryan
Is it a coincidence that she looks like a cheap knockoff of Melon?
topclimber
@Geminid: Isn’t a no confidence vote the only way to move up elections, which Bibi can otherwise stonewall for (two?) years. That means some chunk of Likud has to go along, doesn’t it? Any sign of that?
Old School
@Baud:
It’s no “Swinged Cat State.”
And now I’ve learned much more about South Dakota than I was expecting when I woke up this morning.
stinger
@Ryan: No, and I think she had the same surgery as Melanoma did to get that squinty-eyed look. The appeal of which is beyond me.
Betty Cracker
@Geminid: I sure hope you’re right about a new Israeli government by summer. If the Israeli press has it right, most Israelis want Netanyahu gone, but I read a NYT article a few days ago (gift link) that suggested it will be hard to dislodge him, and an election isn’t required before Oct. 2026.
Alison Rose
@stinger: Their version of Blue Steel.
Suzanne
Kristi Noem has too much filler injected into her face.
Kay
@Princess:
I’m not a particularly sentimental person – a failing of mine, coldness- so it doesn’t matter that much in terms of my vote, but my opinion of President Biden has changed as a result of this. I no longer believe he is a humanitarian. I love Biden’s economic policy and Trump is a fucking monster so in a choice of two it’s easy, but President Biden has lost some ethical stature in my eyes. My supporting Biden is 100% transactional now – just the policy not the man. It’s a job as a citizen – nothing more.
Sloegin
Noem got a fair amount of plastic surgery to get that ‘Mango Lardo Gal’ look, which may be enough for a VP nod. My money is still on Tucker now that the boss has interviewed him.
HumboldtBlue
@topclimber:
Peke Daddy
Looks like she’s auditioning for “Yellowstone.”
delphinium
@Baud:
“You gotta live it everyday“
Peke Daddy
@Princess: Hundreds of thousands are at risk of death from hunger, thirst, exposure, disease, lack of medical care. Many violent deaths have not been counted because bodies are buried under rubble. That’s the framing here.
eclare
@Suzanne:
She’s going for the Kimberley Guillfoyle look.
JPL
@Sloegin: Tim Scott is the front runner, because his name is easy to remember, and his color helps distract from the fact that trump is racist.
zhena gogolia
@Kay: Ukraine did not attack Russia.
Baud
Via Reddit, Blazing Saddles is 50 years old today.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@Kay: I ask this in good faith: What do you think the Biden administration should be doing differently regarding policy on this war?
I agree that some of the messaging has been callous. But in your view, what should Biden and his team be doing differently from a policy perspective?
delphinium
@Suzanne: Recently saw a movie with Famke Janssen and almost didn’t recognize her-looks like too much filler as well. She was very attractive and now looks rather odd.
sab
@Kay: I have to agree with you on this.
Geminid
@topclimber: It will take the defection of 5 out of Netanyahu’s 4-party majority of 64 Knesset members to trigger a change in government. That could be by new elections, or a by forming s different majority. Opposition Yesh Atid party head Yair Lapid says he’ll bring his 24 members in if Smotrich’ s and Ben-Gvir’s 14 members are excluded and Likud selects a different leader to be PM. But the various actors say very little publically about their plans, although they are almost certainly talking with each other about them.
Ben-Gvir says he’ll take his 6 MKs out if the ceasefire is agreed to, but he’s bluffing since once this government collapses, Ben-Gvir is unlikely to be allowed into a government ever again. The only reason Netanyahu aligned with him and Smotrich to begin with is that other parties would never have gone along with Netanyahu’s scheme to fix his criminal case.
That prosecution has been proceeding in fits and halts since April of 2021. Now the 3-judge panel has started it up again. They might have a verdict by the end of summer, and then the appeals will begin.
lowtechcyclist
@Geminid:
…and how many more tens of thousands of Palestinians in the Gaza Strip will be massacred or starved to death between now and then?
trollhattan
@delphinium: Sourcing from Deadwood: The Hooplehead State.
Manyakitty
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: Vance is way too ambitious. I’m sure Putin will pick someone perfect for him.
trollhattan
@Baud: The sheriff is near!
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Parfigliano:
Apparently not shocking to Noem’s (incredibly white) constituency there. As such, she can say the out loud parts out loud and get away with it.
That may or may not be a hindrance as a VP candidate marginally attempting to reach a marginally wider audience.
Just another reason to never move to SD.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@trollhattan:
Ah, an oldie but goodie here, “ni*CLANG*!”
lowtechcyclist
@HumboldtBlue:
Thanks, I knew it predated Hillary’s public career.
lowtechcyclist
@eclare:
Yeah, that struck me too. Looking like twins, they are.
Manyakitty
@Geminid: aha, I thought this was you. Your take makes a lot of sense. I hope we can all survive into the summer.
Bibi can fuck off into the sun, and take ALL his disgraceful henchmen with him.
Jackie
This didn’t take long! It’s a great ad! Rick Wilson says a second ad is coming that will make this one look tame:
The Lincoln Project is out with a new ad that flips the narrative on border security.
Suzanne
@eclare:
It’s Instagram face.
topclimber
@HumboldtBlue:
@lowtechcyclist:
I recall she brought it into her campaign and so popularized it, except among right wingers. Nice to see Noem coming around/s.
wenchacha
@Scout211: She almost looks like Kathy Hochul!
Geminid
@Betty Cracker: Yeah, by law this government’s mandate lasts into 2026. But Israelis seem to think it won’t make it through this year. It was already unpopular before this war started, and when it took power 13 months ago one of the Likud MKs predicted it would never last out it’s allotted time. The members started out with a lot of animus and resentment towards each other. The PM had to placate his partners by handing out 30 cabinet positions to the coaltion’s 64 Knesset members.
One factor here is that Gantz’s 12 MKs joined the government on a temporary basis on October 11. Gantz is cryptic about his plans, saying that “I knew when to join this government and I’ll know when to leave it.” But polls consistently show Gantz the big winner if a new election is called, so Gantz will leave it before too long. He might even offer the two Ultra-Orthodox party leaders cabinet posts in the next government. Their leaders would probably jump at the chance to separate from the toxic Netanyahu.
Jeffro
@Pete Downunder: ha! That’s true!
Imma go dry my tears now 😉
Geminid
@lowtechcyclist: Why don’t you make that prediction? Instead of using me as a sounding board with a rhetorical question, you can always make a positive argument instead.
Betty Cracker
@Kay:
Sometimes I wish more people felt that way, unrelated to the appalling circumstances at this specific time in history.
TBone
I don’t remember a president being more empathetic than President Biden when it really counts. In matters of war where our nation does not have agency, I don’t expect much as far as empathetic speeches. I expect a clear, principled stand that leaves no room for misinterpretation. I don’t see anyone doing a better job than he has in such a clusterfuck of circumstances.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
I always feel that way. I appreciate good politicians, but I’ve never felt like I have any kind of personal relationship with any of them. It’s a job they are hired to do.
Agree that I wish more people took they approach.
Kay
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon:
I d0n’t know what they should do on policy. I’m appalled at the coldness and apparent lack of concern. It’s almost disorienting, because I had such a high opinion of Biden as a sympathetic person.
I don’t know who sends Joe Biden out to do comments where he makes an emotional plea for the Israeli hostages and dead civilians all the Palestinian children get is vague diplomatic boilerplate on unfortunate civilian deaths. This is in the same speech. Does he think people don’t hear this inequity? It’s a goddamn blaring whistle.
It’s not just me either. VP Harris agrees:
I think she’s avoiding campaigning at big state schools because she knows there will be huge protests. Not great in an election year if youre the political party that gets 70- 80% of college students!
And get them sme goddamned aid. Fast. Biden tried twice to get Israel some weapons aid around Congress- do that for Palestinian children. Show some effort.
eclare
@Suzanne:
Thanks for the definition. I think.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@Kay: Thanks for the response.
Baud
@Baud:
They = that
Manyakitty
@TBone: exactly. Who would do better? I can’t believe how successfully he’s threading that tiny needle. Yes, it’s hideous.
Bibi can fuck off into the sun and take ALL of his despicable henchmen with him.
lowtechcyclist
@Geminid:
The point of the rhetorical question is that it’s already BEEN too much slaughter. Wait for a new government this summer? Fiddling while Gaza burns – what’s left standing to burn, anyway.
Kay
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon:
The numbers start to matter. MSU alone was about 25- 28,000 Biden votes in 2020.
76 per cent of 50,000 and then 70/80 % of that 76% to Biden. He won by 140.
Geminid
@lowtechcyclist: But to answer your question in part: it depends on how soon there is a ceasefire. That’s what I am watching and hoping for. The one most likely to be achieved is the Qatari plan, with a first phase of six weeks continued with two phases that the Qataris hope will result in a permanent ceasefire.
But while I said that this government would likely fall by June, I did not say this war will go on until it falls. That’s your take. I think this war will end well before then. Conversely, if a meteor took out Netanyahu tonight, the Israeli government would continue the Gaza offensive unless and until there is a ceasefire like the one the Qataris have proposed.
ColoradoGuy
I am puzzled by the conflation of Biden and Bibi. Biden is the President of the USA, and has no direct power over a sovereign country that has the most powerful lobby in DC, the most powerful army in the Mideast, 200 to 300 nuclear weapons, and millions of End-Times evangelicals in the USA that will defend Israel no matter what it does.
What does Biden do? Threaten to pull all US aid? So what? Israel is a wealthy and technically advanced first-world nation that is armed to the teeth. They are in a very unfriendly neighborhood, unlike the USA, and not receptive to calls for peace from foreigners with nothing to lose.
I honestly don’t see how Biden, or anyone else, has much leverage over a fanatic like Bibi, or over the larger state of Israel. Influence, sure, but influence doesn’t carry much weight in a war. Unless the USA intends to invade Israel (which will never happen), I don’t see how much we can change things.
TBone
@Manyakitty: As well as Rump & Putin & Kim & Orban – they can all (verb, adjective, noun, expletive, curse) forever.
mrmoshpotato
Wow! What a miserable pile of shit! The cruelty is the point. What an absolutely miserable pile of shit “political party!’
She can go fuck herself into the Sun!
She can go fuck herself into the Sun!
and
Good on the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation for going “FUCK YOU RACIST SHITSTAIN!”
TBone
@ColoradoGuy: thank you.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7xxgRUyzgs0
Hoppie
@smith: Nominated!
Betty Cracker
@ColoradoGuy: The U.S. has enormous influence in Israel and the world, and it’s as disingenuous to minimize that as it is to pretend we pull all the strings. Which no one is doing, by the way.
Kay
@ColoradoGuy:
Well, that’s fine but if your argument is “no US government has any effect or influence at all” then Biden is the same as Trump on this issue. Right? I think we probably want to stay away from “the US President has no power at all!” while we’re telling people it’s the most important election of their lives.
If what you say is true it shouldn’t matter if Biden calls for a ceasefire, so he should do that.
Geminid
@ColoradoGuy: Israel’s neighborhood is not as unfrienfly as it was coming into this century. At a meeting of the Arab League in 2002, they endorsed normalization with Israel conditioned on progress towards a Palestinian state. This was a rejection of the Arab Leagues famous “Thee Nos” stated at a meeting in 1967, after the Six-Day War: “No to recognizing Israel, No to negotiations, No to peace.”
Since then League members Bahrain, Morocco and the United Arab Emirates have recognised Israel and commenced trade and security cooperation. Saudi Arabia encouraged this even they are holding back for now. Egypt recognized Israel in 1978 and Jordan recognized it in 1994.
This war has not shaken those ties. Reports are that the Gulf Arabs want to see Hamas’s rule in Gaza ended and encourage Israel to effect this. These governments do not conflate Hamas with the Palestinian cause, but rather see Hamas as the menace to regional peace that it is.
Kay
@zhena gogolia:
Palestinian children didn’t attack Israel either. The laws and norms against killing civilians aren’t suspended after a terrorist attack. There’s no free for all six month period where you just get to kill as many as you please. Under laws and norms. Are we outside those? Is the United States comfortable with that, where this killing just goes on indefinitely, or I suppose until they actually run out of people. 10 billion more from the US can do a lot more damage. Get ready, because those civilian numbers are about to go up. I sincerely doubt there are any plans to stop this since they are getting 10 billion more to keep it going. Follow the money. They get 4 billion for defensive systems and then 10 billion for more war.
karen marie
@Kay: Trump didn’t rescue Pence. He didn’t even pick Pence. That would be Manafort.
TBone
I’m not a foreign policy expert and will defer to this Democratic administration, trusting that our experts are exerting as much influence as they deem beneficial unless and until I see something of greater intelligence and import bloom miraculously.
Kay
@karen marie:
Ha! True. But he accepted Pence. There can only be one superstar and that’s Donald Trump.
karen marie
@Scout211: I’ve still got my “change pictures of Individual-1 to pictures of kittens” thingy, so all I’m seeing are kittens!
@sab: Never going to happen. Vance is independently wealthy and ambitious. Trump will never put up with that. Noem is also ambitious – Trump will never go for that, even if she flashes her tits at him. I’d put my money on Tim Scott – a complete zero who does what he’s told.
The Thin Black Duke
One of the iron rules of American politics is inevitably the POTUS will make a decision that will kill a lot of people. Always. It happened in the past, it’s happening now and it’s guaranteed to happen in the future. Good, bad or mediocre, it doesn’t matter what type of person is sitting in the White House, it don’t matter. Hard decisions have to be made every day. That’s why we voted for them. To do the dirty work for us.
mrmoshpotato
@Martin: McTrashass’s can go fuck itself every day of the week – and twice on Whopper Wednesdays!
Kay
@zhena gogolia:
I mean, you know this. You know killing civilians based on a terrorist attack is collective punishment. It doesn’t matter at all that Hamas attacked Israel on the killing civilians question. If Ukraine had attacked Russia Russia still can’t kill ten thousand Ukranian civilians.There’s no special exception where you get to do it if you’re attacked. The United States doesn’t sanction collective punishment -its a war crime.
Geminid
@Princess: We know that the civilian deaths in Gaza are excessive. Israel clearly was motivated by veageance early on. When Hamas launched it’s savage attack on October 7, they intended to incite an Israeli response so savage that it would sunder Israel’s ties with its allies in Europe and elsewhere. That’s one reason the attack was so savage.
The Palestinians living in Gaza had no say in the matter; they were pawns to be sacrificed. As one Hamas leader put it, “We are a nation of martyrs.”
So what has happened since October? For one thing, fewer civilian casualties. In a review of UN figures by week published on January 22, the NY Times found that casualties were down 50% since a month before, and were down 67% from late October.
That is still too many, but I wanted to put this out there because people have said the toll among civilians is unabated and that is not so.
As for the percentage of civilians killed compared to fighters, the reporter quoted estimates estimates ranging from 65 to 75 per cent or more. I think this is one of many facts we won’t really know until this war is over, if then. Same with total casualty numbers.
lowtechcyclist
@Geminid:
Hell, who originally expected it to be this devastating for this long?
Qatar Is the Key to Middle East Peace (foreignpolicy.com) (November 7, 2023)
Maybe this season they’ll have the secret sauce to peace. Or maybe not.
It just seems to me that treating Israel with kid gloves isn’t working, and has never worked. It’s time to publicly oppose their military intervention in Gaza, at the very least. I don’t fucking care if Israelis’ feelings are hurt because we’re trying to tell them not to kill more children.
topclimber
@Geminid: Have they dug all the bodies out of the rubble yet?
Betty Cracker
@The Thin Black Duke: You have to be a ruthless sumbitch to become POTUS. In some ways, the job is akin to running an international gangster consortium, regardless of the sentimental tales we tell ourselves. That said, the character of the person in that role sure as hell matters. A lot!
karen marie
@Jackie: It doesn’t so much “flip” the script as adopt Republican framing that fentanyl, child sex trafficking and “terrorists” are coming across the border.
I don’t see that as helpful.
Geminid
@Kay: I think that $14 billion will only pay for what we have already shipped Israel, and it might not even cover that. We have sent planeload after planeload of arms to Israel since October 7. One report said we’ve sent 8 shiploads as well.
These shipments was made without a Congressional appropriation, and the $14 billion requested now might not cover anywhere near all of them. We don’t know because Biden’s people are being very tightlipped about this, even to Congress. That was Senator Kaine’s and Van Hollen’s beef, but they still know more than the public does. We report our shipments to Ukraine in detail, but with Israel it’s been the opposite. I think the hope is for the war to end before there is an accounting.
TerryC
@stinger: “No, and I think she had the same surgery as Melanoma did to get that squinty-eyed look. The appeal of which is beyond me.”
I bet it is an aid to not letting one’s eyes reveal what one is really thinking and feeling.
gene108
What Biden can do to show support for Gaza is (1) offer no new military aid to Israel, they’re on their own if they continue to massacre civilians in Gaza, (2) more humanitarian aid for Gaza, (3) strongly denounce the killing of civilians in Gaza, the he does with the killing of civilians in Ukraine, and (4) publicly state in strong terms there needs to be a ceasefire.
He kind of does points 3 and 4, but it always includes a much longer statement about his concerns for Hamas’s hostages, the people killed Oct. 7, and Israel’s right to exist.
Point 1 is a non-starter with the Biden administration. They want to keep funding the Israel war machine with no conditions. The Biden administration has put conditions on Ukraine’s use of weapons we provide, by discouraging using them for offensive strikes in Russia.
Biden and his people were okay at first, because they did push for humanitarian aide to Gaza, and did get brief pauses in the fighting to get aide in and to evacuate civilians. But they seem a lot more committed to Israel’s right to “defend itself” than easing the suffering in Gaza.
Geminid
@topclimber: I doubt it. What do you think? I don’t even know if the UN figures include the “Missing, presumed dead.”
But you would know this if you were truly interested, and could tell me. Instead you ask a rhetorical question that I suspect is intended to demonstrate that you care about human life in a way I don’t. If this is the case, I recommend you stuff your rhetorical question up your self-righteous ass.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Geminid:
Do you have any criticisms for how the Biden admin is handling this war and it’s optics? (Not a rhetorical question, btw. I’m geniunely asking) Reading down through this thread, I can’t help but agree with those criticizing the Administration. I believe it would go a long way for Biden to at least call out Isreal’s conduct more forcefully. VP Harris even thinks he should, if reporting is to be believed. I think the US government has a lot of influence with Isreal, and I don’t think we need to be sending them the amount of weapons we’ve been sending them. That’s leverage we should be using imo.
I read a story from the Detroit News last week, about Arab-Americans in Michigan angrily refusing to meet with a Biden campaign official. One woman interviewed even called Biden a murderer. They felt taken for granted by the White House.
I just don’t think the Administration’s plan is working and I think something needs to change and fast. We can’t wait until the summer for this war to be over.
ETA: I also think that Biden should push the Netanyahu government out if it means ending this war soon
wjca
But that’s because you aren’t the target audience. It’s aimed at Republican voters, with the goal of getting them to abandon Trump. For that, you don’t try to massively reverse their entire view of the world. You focus on how the guy you want to destroy is stopping efforts to address a major (in their minds, if nowhere else) problem they care deeply about.
Geminid
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): As to your edit: Pushing Netanyahu’s government out would certainly make a lot of people happy, but- while it might end this war sooner, it probably would not because a majority of Israelis believe that Hamas’s control of the Gaza Strip must be ended. And like it or not, Biden thinks so too, as do most of the Arab states that we and Israel count as allies.
And the next Israeli government will have some important decisions to make, that could might be the most consequential any Israeli government has made in decades. There will be powerful opponents within Israel. This has to be a government that Israelis choose, not one that the US chooses.
As to the first parts of your question, I think Biden and his team have done what they should. I could criticize them on many points, but I won’t fault them because I’m not sure I would have done better.
And I give them a lot of credit for keeping this war from spreading throughout the region. This situation could be much worse than it is, although there is no guaranty that it won’t become worse.
And you know what? One reason I hope this war ends soon is that maybe then people will pay attention to what is happening in Sudan. That has been much worse than the Gaza War in my opinion, and many people in the US and around the world hardly even notice.
brantl
@trollhattan:Trump-Santos: Let there be lite.
Better?
brantl
@Princess: Trusting what Israel says is a loser, as well.
Splitting Image
@Suzanne:
Damn. That was a depressing read. I’m afraid we’re getting to the stage where old-time screen sirens like Marilyn Monroe won’t be admired anymore because they don’t look artificial enough.
Props to Judy Collins and Emmylou Harris, who I don’t think even bother to dye their hair.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Geminid:
But that would go a long way to showing people that Biden at least made a serious effort, particularly to Arab-Americans, who were critical to helping Biden win in 2020 in MI. I’ve read reporting of them calling him a murderer and that they’ve been taken for granted. We have to prevent a Trump dictatorship.
Many of the Arab states probably want Trump back in the WH, too. Netanyahu as well. The longer this war drags on, the more likely that possibility becomes. There are committed Dems in this very thread who say Biden’s policies towards this war have changed their views of him, Kay in particular. She used to think of him as a humanitarian, but no more and that voting for him is purely transactional at this point.
I don’t agree. I think they have leverage and should apply it more forcefully. I also think Biden should condemn the Israeli government’s actions more than he has.
All the more reason to end this war sooner rather than later
eldorado
i’m outside the consenus view here on more than a few issues, but when was biden ever inspirational? he is and has been a replacement level politician in terms of vision and leadership
certainly his term has exceeded my expectations in general. major differences is he obviously he doesn’t care about immigration policy which is why it’s so muddled and basically the same as the gop’s
the isreal policy is objectively terrible, and isn’t justifiable in moral terms. biden supports isreal and it’s effort to eliminate hamas and it isn’t concerned about the fate of the palastenians. the pr messaging would like to soften this somehow, but it can’t and just comes across as whitewashing
Geminid
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): A late response on one point: I am not so sure that the Gulf Arab states want Trump back in the White House. I know this is a common belief, but I am sceptical. I think the people who run these countries are realists whose greatest worry is their unstable and insecure region.
In that respect, Trump does not stack up that well against Joe Biden. The Gulf Arabs have had a stable, friendly security relationship with the US since the Second World War, and they were used to seeing it responsibly and professionally managed. They got to see four years of Trump’s fickle, amateurish and self-interested foreign policy. It was pay to play, and the Gulf Arabs went along with that, but that wouldn’t make them respect Trump more; it probably made them respect him less.
Paul in KY
@Baud: Notice how she’s playing with her hair in the cover photo? MAGA incel boy, she wants you to…plunk down $30 for her book. She’ll always remember you so fondly.
Paul in KY
@JWR: Picking Tim Scott would violate the ‘Quayle Rule’. That is the strategy of having your Veep be someone that would (to the opposition) be even worse than you to have as President. As a Democratic example, VP Gore was within the ‘Quayle Rule’ parameters.
Granted, for TFG, it might be hard to find someone or thing to not violate this rule.
Paul in KY
@Barbara: TFG is said to generally not like facial hair, among other things he dislikes (list way way too long to be shown here).
Paul in KY
@trollhattan: ‘George Santos’ (or his original name Flaszoth Cramrelzor) exists in all spacetime continuums. The ancient seers referred to him (translated to modern English) as the ‘Omnifake’.
Paul in KY
@Baud: I would vote for ‘The Freezing Winds State’.
Paul in KY
@Kay: I would blame them! It’s fucking TFG he’s running against. That’s like Sauron (or maybe worse). You have to hold you nose or whatever and vote. Getting rid of Pres. Biden will ONLY make it much worse for Palestinians and Arabs and every fucking entity except MAGA rascist douchewads and the ultra rich (those who don’t fall under the first group).
Paul in KY
@Kay: It should be 100% transactional for Arab American voters everywhere. Cause TFG will fuck them sideways if he gets back in.
Paul in KY
@ColoradoGuy: There’s not alot of concrete stuff Pres. Biden can do, as you noted in your post. Given that Israel is a longtime ally, the lobby, etc. etc.
As Kay has mentioned, he could be more vocal about the callous way Israel is prosecuting this war and also get much more humanitarian aid into Gaza.
I personally love the guy and would still vote for him even if he said ‘I hope all the fucking Palestinians DIAF.’ (which he would never say and does not in any way believe that or feel that). However, if he did say that, I would still vote for him, cause I know his opposition.
Paul in KY
@Geminid: I personally feel Hamas must be exterminated (preferably by the Palestinians who want a country of their own). They are completely against a two state solution, are generally murdering thugs, and only help the Likudniks.
Geminid
@Paul in KY: I’d settle for the surviving leadership and fighters being evacuated to Algeria, as the Saudis have proposed. Israel might settle for it too.
Paul in KY
@Geminid: You are a kinder soul than I.