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Balloon Juice

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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Excellent Links / Thursday Morning Open Thread: Too Many GOP Klowns in Our National Circus

Thursday Morning Open Thread: Too Many GOP Klowns in Our National Circus

by Anne Laurie|  March 21, 20248:31 am| 239 Comments

This post is in: Excellent Links, Impeachment Hearings, Proud to Be A Democrat, Republican Venality

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Lawful Evil
Neutral Evil
Chaotic Evil pic.twitter.com/nhg7zp2min

— American Imperialism Kaiju Returns (@TonyMoonbeam) March 20, 2024

Obama, Pelosi join Biden to mobilize voters ahead of Affordable Care Act anniversary

https://t.co/rtpJJnmem7

— Mike Walker (@New_Narrative) March 20, 2024

Democrats work for people; Repubs work for a tiny cabal of oligarchs, domestic & foreign.

Once again, Trump is threatening 140 million American patients with ACA repeal because he says “ObamaCare sucks” — but we know the ACA cures!

That’s why we must reelect @JoeBiden and a Democratic House and Senate to answer the cry of patients across America — #SaveMyHealthCare! pic.twitter.com/uebmjGrtsC

— Nancy Pelosi (@TeamPelosi) March 20, 2024

NEW: Republicans call for raising the Social Security retirement age in clash with Biden, via @jackfitzdc https://t.co/8Vjvf4xD50

— Steven Dennis (@StevenTDennis) March 20, 2024


Remember — sharing is caring!

Leader Schumer: The choice for Speaker Johnson is clear. Put the supplemental on the floor of the House for a vote and help deliver Ukraine the aid it desperately needs or kowtow to Donald Trump and the MAGA hard right who seem to want a victorious Putin. pic.twitter.com/ImXrJtxR4g

— House Judiciary Dems (@HouseJudiciary) March 20, 2024

Thursday Morning Open Thread: Too Many GOP Klowns in Our National Circus

Concerning yesterday’s center-ring saga:

Lacking support and evidence, the GOP-led impeachment inquiry against Biden continued to sputter out, even as House Republicans held a hearing featuring witnesses reiterating thin allegations that his family capitalized financially on their father’s name. https://t.co/wrAKWCH5dy

— The Washington Post (@washingtonpost) March 21, 2024


Per the Washington Post, “Impeachment inquiry appears on ice as House GOP tries to wrangle support” [gift link]:

Lacking support and evidence, the GOP-led impeachment inquiry against President Biden continued to sputter out, even as House Republicans on Wednesday held a hearing that featured witnesses who reiterated thin allegations that members of the Biden family capitalized financially on their father’s name…

With a threadbare majority, House Republicans need near unanimity to approve articles of impeachment against the president, which they do not have. Instead, skepticism among rank-and-file Republicans has only grown since an FBI informant was charged with lying about the Bidens, an implosion of what had been presented as a major piece of evidence.

In the absence of those votes, Comer and other members of the investigating committees have pivoted to the possibility of criminal referrals. Comer has threatened to make “multiple” criminal referrals, but it remains unclear whether lawmakers will formally accuse President Biden of a crime and what crimes they allege may have been committed.

“I’m not sure how we would have a criminal referral of the president yet not move forward with impeachment,” Rep. Kelly Armstrong (R-N.D.) said. “I mean the [Justice Department] is never going to take that up anyway.”…

The apparent collapse of one of the House GOP’s marquee investigations was preceded by a string of incidents where Comer, who has been criticized by even some Republican colleagues for his Fox News-centric approach to the investigation, elevated allegations against Biden and his son before they publicly fizzled. Rep. Jamie Raskin (Md.), the ranking Democrat on the Oversight Committee, in his opening statement Wednesday called the hearing “the end of perhaps the most spectacular failure in the history of congressional investigations.”

“Our colleagues now are apparently preparing to save face by ending the impeachment farce with criminal referrals,” Raskin said. “But criminal referrals require evidence of crimes. And the only crimes we have seen are those of the GOP’s own star witnesses.”…

Some members indicated that they were open to weighing any new evidence House investigators may unearth in the meantime, but Rep. Mike Garcia (R-Calif.) noted that Republicans were running out of time before the rematch between Biden and former president Donald Trump — and that Biden faces bigger electoral challenges than a potential impeachment that is destined to fail in a Democratic-controlled Senate.

“Ultimately the American people will be voting in October or November to decide whether or not this president is suitable for office,” Garcia said. “I think he’s got enough other challenges and failures under his belt that the impeachment probably wouldn’t even affect the outcome of the election.”…

“The only information ever pushed on the Bidens and Ukraine has come from one source and one source only: Russia and Russian agents,” Parnas testified.

At the end of the hearing, Comer said he was inviting the president to testify to Congress, an invitation a White House spokesperson laughed off on social media.

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    239Comments

    1. 1.

      comrade scotts agenda of rage

      March 21, 2024 at 8:36 am

      No matter how outwardly batshit insane, racist and, well, everything else the GQP has become (they’ve always been that way, note I said “outwardly”), there’s always one constant in the party:

      Do anything, anytime, to dismantle Social Security.  Raising the retirement age is just another trope in their SS-killing meme kit.

      They’ll *never* change.

      Reply
    2. 2.

      lowtechcyclist

      March 21, 2024 at 8:38 am

      Makes sense, raise the Social Security retirement age just as American life expectancies have taken a hit due to Covid. Brilliant!

      Reply
    3. 3.

      NotMax

      March 21, 2024 at 8:39 am

      Saw there’s a new remake of Wages of Fear coming up on Netflix.

      \Why, why why? Don’t mess with a masterpiece.

      Reply
    4. 4.

      Dorothy A. Winsor

      March 21, 2024 at 8:39 am

      Have they said what they wanted to raise the retirement age to? They do know it’s already 67, right?

      Reply
    5. 5.

      lowtechcyclist

      March 21, 2024 at 8:40 am

      “the GOP-led impeachment inquiry against Biden continued to sputter out” – HA! It downright backfired on them!!

      Reply
    6. 6.

      NotMax

      March 21, 2024 at 8:42 am

      @Dorothy A. Winsor

      “The age of the oldest president at time of election.”
      //

      Reply
    7. 7.

      The Thin Black Duke

      March 21, 2024 at 8:42 am

      The people who believe that the GOP would never fuck around with SS are the same people who believed that the GOP wouldn’t fuck around with Roe v Wade. Taking shit that people need away from them is the only thing the GOP is honest about.

      Reply
    8. 8.

      Albatrossity

      March 21, 2024 at 8:44 am

      “Ultimately the American people will be voting in October or November to decide whether or not this president is suitable for office,” Garcia said. “I think he’s got enough other challenges and failures under his belt that the impeachment probably wouldn’t even affect the outcome of the election.”…

      This should appear in dictionaries as a great example of Sour Grapes!

      Reply
    9. 9.

      The Thin Black Duke

      March 21, 2024 at 8:45 am

      @NotMax: Friedkin got away with it, but that’s because he was a genius.

      Reply
    10. 10.

      Waspuppet

      March 21, 2024 at 8:45 am

      The Post story is fine I guess, but I second AOC’s comment from yesterday: The only real story left here is how long have the Republicans known that this “case” is 100 percent Russian propaganda and pushed it anyway?

      Reply
    11. 11.

      Suzanne

      March 21, 2024 at 8:46 am

      @comrade scotts agenda of rage: I have noted to my family members that I expect the labor market to be really tight for some years, as the Boomers get into the “prime healthcare-consuming years” and can’t work. So they’re going to need a lot of goods and services, Gen X is smaller, and thus I expect inflation to be pretty steep for a while.

      So, of course, the MotU don’t want to pay their workers more, and so they want to keep olds in the workforce as long as possible, by any means necessary.

      Reply
    12. 12.

      comrade scotts agenda of rage

      March 21, 2024 at 8:46 am

      @The Thin Black Duke:

      The people who believe that the GOP would never fuck around with SS are the same people who believed that the GOP wouldn’t fuck around with Roe v Wade.

      Those people are either a) naive, b) dumbasses, c) both, or d) lying sacks of shit who know better but try to convince others it won’t happen because they themselves will only vote for the GQP and are slightly embarrassed by that fact.

      Reply
    13. 13.

      Suzanne

      March 21, 2024 at 8:53 am

      @comrade scotts agenda of rage:

      Those people are either a) naive, b) dumbasses, c) both, or d) lying sacks of shit who know better 

      If ever there was a time for por que no los dos, or cuatro, it is now.

      Reply
    14. 14.

      catclub

      March 21, 2024 at 8:54 am

      @Dorothy A. Winsor: Retirement age 67? Ha!  I retired at 62.  Just did not claim Social security yet.

      Reply
    15. 15.

      TBone

      March 21, 2024 at 8:55 am

      @NotMax: haven’t seen that yet but will look for it (the original).  Just started Turning Point on Netflix this morning but had to take a break.  Gut wrenching.

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turning_Point:_The_Bomb_And_The_Cold_War

      Reply
    16. 16.

      Dorothy A. Winsor

      March 21, 2024 at 8:57 am

      @catclub: As long as you keep your hands off social security the money they need to fund tax cuts for the wealthy, they’re fine with that.

      Reply
    17. 17.

      Betty Cracker

      March 21, 2024 at 8:58 am

      Also from the WaPo link above:

      Any criminal referral issued by Congress to the Justice Department would be a symbolic move that carries no legal weight on its own, leaving prosecutors with the decision about whether to pursue criminal charges.

      There must be a few Trump appointee holdovers at the DOJ who would eagerly take on that investigation. They wouldn’t find anything because there’s no there there. But they could issue a Hur-style report to damage Biden in a reelection year. I wish I were confident the DOJ wouldn’t fall for that bullshit again, but I am not.

      Reply
    18. 18.

      Chief Oshkosh

      March 21, 2024 at 8:58 am

      @lowtechcyclist: Yes, I thought that the WaPo headline, and most of what I’ve bothered to read in that article (?), very intentionally avoided telling the public what happened in that hearing.

      It would be a good thing if Bezo were to personally test his almost-perfected Mars rocket.

      Reply
    19. 19.

      Soprano2

      March 21, 2024 at 9:00 am

      @comrade scotts agenda of rage: I heard a program the other day where someone from some think tank was once again pushing the privatization thing, although she denied that’s what it was. The idea was that people could get half of their SS in an account that they control. The problem with that is, as anyone who has ever talked to people about saving money knows, 95% of people would have all the money spent on other stuff before retirement ever happened. Unless the account was set up so that the person couldn’t have access to the money, I guarantee you it would be used to pay for car repairs and boats and vacations and all kinds of other stuff that isn’t retirement. The only reason the majority of people have anything to retire on is because of things like SS where they cannot get their hands on the money for other things. Trust me, that’s just how people are, you can’t change it.

      Reply
    20. 20.

      catclub

      March 21, 2024 at 9:00 am

      NPR had a feature on the 4 years ago saga of the start of the pandemic. It is my contention that if Trump had only done a barely mediocre job managing the federal Government response [ be quiet, don’t say and do incredibly stupid things, accept advice from expert consensus], he would have been re-elected in a landslide. Lucky for us – who did not die in the pandemic – that he could not do that. Because of all the stupid things he did, he is not given credit for the accelerated vaccine production – which was amazing. If they had been two months faster…. he would have been re-elected in spite of all his other fuckups.

      Now, I think a Biden line should be “Do you want Trump in office when there is another pandemic?”

      Reply
    21. 21.

      Soprano2

      March 21, 2024 at 9:01 am

      @Dorothy A. Winsor: They usually say 70, because they all sit at computers to work all day and don’t see the guys I work with who look like old men when they’re in their 50’s. That woman from the think tank actually said “Well, Social Security disability would still exist, so if people can’t wait until 70 to retire they could apply for it” without any acknowledgement of how hard it is to get SSI, usually people have to hire attorneys and apply two or three times, and that’s having an actual disability rather than just “I’m too old and broken down to work anymore”.

      Reply
    22. 22.

      NotMax

      March 21, 2024 at 9:01 am

      @The Thin Black Duke

      Am of the school who looks at Sorcerer as more of an offshoot/homage than a remake. To my mind it amplifies what weaknesses there were in the original in service to cinematic suspense. Although there’s ample room for debate.

      The newest one, however, uses the original title so there’s much to live up to (at which, at least from the trailer, it falls short).

      Reply
    23. 23.

      TBone

      March 21, 2024 at 9:02 am

      @Betty Cracker: I hope it’s not already a thing.

      Reply
    24. 24.

      catclub

      March 21, 2024 at 9:03 am

      @Soprano2: ​
       

      I guarantee you it would be used to pay for car repairs and boats and vacations and all kinds of other stuff that isn’t retirement.

      I am not so sure. There are ways to access your 401k
      account via hardship, and you make it sound like all that money would already be gone. It ain’t.

      Reply
    25. 25.

      Caveatimperator

      March 21, 2024 at 9:03 am

      @catclub:

      Now, I think a Biden line should be “Do you want Trump in office when there is another pandemic?”

      In a sane world, sure.

      But we live in a world where people were angry at the pandemic not because people were dying, but because they couldn’t go out to restaurants like they used to. And that extended a good way into Biden’s presidency.

       

      It could backfire. I don’t like saying it or thinking it because it has terrible implications for our society, but it really could backfire if it’s not handled right.

      Reply
    26. 26.

      Mousebumples

      March 21, 2024 at 9:04 am

      My retirement accounts are not relying on any Medicare/SS – mostly because I don’t trust voters (or Elected GOPers), and if I/we get anything from that, then bonus.

      Also hoping to retire early, or at least go part time in maybe 10 years or so. (early 50s) But we’ll see what the future holds…

      Reply
    27. 27.

      Soprano2

      March 21, 2024 at 9:04 am

      @lowtechcyclist: Yeah, that hearing yesterday was pretty bad for the Republicans. I can’t wait to see what the actual bullshit charge is when they refer this to the Justice Department. Or, they might let it die a quiet death.

      Reply
    28. 28.

      Chief Oshkosh

      March 21, 2024 at 9:05 am

      @catclub:

      …he is not given credit for the accelerated vaccine production…

      Nor should he be. All of that technology was teed up long ago. Hell, arguably one of the more effective early vaccines came from Pfizer, who did not take Warp Speed funding:

      https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewsolender/2020/11/13/trump-falsely-claims-credit-for-pfizer-vaccine-though-company-did-not-take-government-funds/?sh=184cb5de69cb

      Reply
    29. 29.

      NotMax

      March 21, 2024 at 9:08 am

      @Mousebumples

      Retirement (to mix metaphors) is the bee’s pajamas.
      ;)

      Reply
    30. 30.

      catclub

      March 21, 2024 at 9:08 am

      @Soprano2: Trust me, that’s just how people are, you can’t change it.

       

      I think this is not all people, at all.  If you look instead at Vanguard Customers, of whom there are quite a few.  All the things they say about stupid small investors are totally wrong.  yes, I am one.

      yes, I know there is a lot of privilege getting to the Vanguard Customer level. But there are lots of those people, too. My guess, at least 30% of the population.

      70% of the BJ population.

      Reply
    31. 31.

      Mousebumples

      March 21, 2024 at 9:10 am

      https://bsky.app/profile/emptywheel.bsky.social/post/3ko7fbbgh5a2j

      In about 10 years, someone is going to make a REALLY entertaining podcast about Trump’s efforts during these weeks to keep his business afloat without killing his reelection.

      November’s election will determine whether that’s made in Hollywood or in Europe, I guess.

      Think about it: Normally, Trump would just declare BK, like right wing smear peddlers Alex Jones and Rudy G did, when they were finally held accountable for spreading lies.

      But if he admits he’s BK, all the MAGAts will figure out he’s a fraud. His claims of power are built on house of cards.

      https://bsky.app/profile/dwolfe.bsky.social/post/3ko7h6exupu2k

      This headline is wrong. Trump’s debts were procured by fraud. Those debts are NOT dischargeable in bankruptcy. 11 USC 523(a)(2)(A) and (a)(2)(B)(i)

      (WaPo article linked in the second post – https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/03/20/trump-bond-bankruptcy/)

      Reply
    32. 32.

      catclub

      March 21, 2024 at 9:10 am

      @Chief Oshkosh: I agree, but he would have gotten credit for it if they finished two months earlier. He would have made sure of it.

      Presidents get credit and blame for a lot of stuff they are not responsible for.

      Reply
    33. 33.

      Tony Jay

      March 21, 2024 at 9:11 am

      @Waspuppet:

      The only real story left here is how long have the Republicans known that this “case” is 100 percent Russian propaganda and pushed it anyway?

      They can’t ask that!!! The answer would be counter-narrative, and then the senior editorial staff would have sad-face.

      Reply
    34. 34.

      Mousebumples

      March 21, 2024 at 9:12 am

      @NotMax: haha! I’m the meantime, I’m looking forward to my littles (currently 2 & 4) being old enough to take on longer flights to, say, Hawaii or Europe. The 4 hours to AZ was too much for my then 2 year old eldest, but… Someday. Hopefully after the Boeing falling apart in the sky drama is over, lol.

      Reply
    35. 35.

      comrade scotts agenda of rage

      March 21, 2024 at 9:13 am

      @Soprano2:

      That mindset was hilariously captured in the hilariously opening scene in the X Files “Clyde Bruckman’s Final Repose”–Peter Boyle plays the insurance saleman who sees how people will die.

      There’s a young couple in his office thinking about buying life insurance.  Boyle’s character knows one of them is gonna die so is trying to gently push them for a policy knowing it’ll be of great help to the survivor.

      But all they keep saying is “But we want to buy a boat.”

      Also too, just like when the Bushies floated the SS change grift, it was noted that it was simply another transfer of gubmint monies to the private sector for them to “invest”.  Fuck. That. Shit.

      Reply
    36. 36.

      hueyplong

      March 21, 2024 at 9:14 am

      @Tony Jay: Of course, an obvious, second real story left here is how long have the media have known that this “case” is 100 percent Russian propaganda and pushed it anyway?

      Reply
    37. 37.

      Kay

      March 21, 2024 at 9:14 am

      aljazeeraenglish
      22h
      Jared Kushner, former senior foreign policy adviser to Donald Trump, has said waterfront property in Gaza could be “very valuable” and that Israel should move Palestinians out of Gaza to enable an attack on Rafah

      He said “move… the people out” – good God. He’s just cheerfully announcing that Israel should steal all their property and develop it as luxury waterfront.

      Reply
    38. 38.

      Ohio Mom

      March 21, 2024 at 9:15 am

      @Soprano2: The other part is, even if people don’t spend SS money given to them to manage, who the hell knows how to invest?

      Sure, people think they are secretly as smart as big financial types but guess what, those guys have information you’ll never have. They have an army of analysts keeping track of trends and crunching numbers while you’re at your job, driving junior to his little league game, cooking dinner, and all the rest.

      Reply
    39. 39.

      Another Scott

      March 21, 2024 at 9:15 am

      @Mousebumples: But, but TIFG has absolute total immaculate immunity from anything he doesn’t like.  Because he does, that’s why.

      [ groucho-roll-eyes.gif ]

      Cheers,
      Scott.

      Reply
    40. 40.

      sab

      March 21, 2024 at 9:17 am

      @Mousebumples: They told us back in 1980 when Reagan ran that we couldn’t count on Social Security to be there for our retirement. I was in my twenties then.  But instead private pensions went away, and more people than ever are relying on Social Security.

      Reply
    41. 41.

      Mousebumples

      March 21, 2024 at 9:18 am

      @Another Scott: I’m not saying he won’t find a way to post bond. But I don’t expect NY Courts to give him an extension. So by Monday, I think we’ll know if he’s posting bond or not.

      Hoping for NOT, but given that he got an unexpected (to me) bond for the E Jean Carroll case, after whining about not being able to do it… I’m not ruling out that he has an offer he doesn’t want to take on the table.

      Reply
    42. 42.

      Soprano2

      March 21, 2024 at 9:19 am

      @Chief Oshkosh: I read the article and it most certainly didn’t mention any of what Parnas said about specific members of Congress and the media knowing that this was all a Russian-backed disinformation campaign. Parnas was only mentioned in the last couple of paragraphs. It was a Republican-friendly reading of the hearing for sure.

      Reply
    43. 43.

      Ohio Mom

      March 21, 2024 at 9:19 am

      @Mousebumples: It’s not picking an early retirement age target, it’s keeping health coverage for everyone in your family that is the sticking point.

      Reply
    44. 44.

      Kay

      March 21, 2024 at 9:20 am

      @sab:

      They can’t get rid of it. Half of Americans have no retirement savings – zero. They would have a huge elderly population out on the street.

      Reply
    45. 45.

      Mousebumples

      March 21, 2024 at 9:21 am

      @sab: absolutely! When I was in college 20+ years ago, my work supervisors were telling me not to rely on SS/Medicare.

      Reply
    46. 46.

      Mousebumples

      March 21, 2024 at 9:22 am

      @Ohio Mom: yeah, very true. And definitely likely to be a sticking point for my family in the future …

      Reply
    47. 47.

      Soprano2

      March 21, 2024 at 9:24 am

      @catclub: It all depends on the restrictions you put on the account. 401K accounts have penalties for early withdrawal. However, many people do withdraw for a downpayment on a house, or to pay for college for their kids. That means there is much less money there at retirement than would otherwise be there. Theoretically they can put it back, but I don’t know how many people actually do that. What I’m saying is that if it were an account that belonged to the individual and it didn’t have strict controls on how the money could be used, it would all be gone. Trust me on that, it would all be used for other things. I once talked to a man who got a rollover of retirement money from his employer; he thought he could use it to put a deck on his house and the IRS would never know! *sigh* Most people will spend money if they can get their hands on it, saving is hard.

      Reply
    48. 48.

      NotMax

      March 21, 2024 at 9:25 am

      @@Mosuebumples

      Think they’ll present enough phonus balonus “we’re this close” deluge of papers at the last minute to trigger a short (10 days?) extension.

      Reply
    49. 49.

      oldgold

      March 21, 2024 at 9:25 am

      The obvious legal solution to Trump’s judgment/ appeal bond problem is filing a Chapter 11 Bankruptcy.  Although it is the legally prudent action to take, the question is, how does it play politically?

      It certainly detracts from the image he has sold that he is a powerful billionaire and brings into sharp focus his previous financial failings that have resulted in multiple bankruptcies. That expressed, Trump can probably weather the downside by claiming to be a martyr at the hands of the crooked deep state libs.

      Unless a financial white  knight suddenly appears, I look for Trump to take the bankruptcy option within the next several days.

      Reply
    50. 50.

      Omnes Omnibus

      March 21, 2024 at 9:26 am

      @Mousebumples: The companies that do these kind of bonds say that their upper limit is $100 million.  So, for the purposes of this $500 million bond, you have to consider that it is five times their upper limit and Trump has already pledged something to get the $91 million bond for the Carroll case.  Add in that the underlying case is about lying about the value of assets and you really have something.  I am not saying he won’t get a bond, but those are factors that have to be considered.

      Reply
    51. 51.

      sab

      March 21, 2024 at 9:27 am

      @Kay: Israel has rumbled along for 50 years treating Palestinians badly. Jared got put in charge of our relationship, and suddenly the Israeli government thinks genocide is a doable option. ( Like Kamala Harris, I do make a distinction between the Israeli government and the Israeli people.)

      Reply
    52. 52.

      rusty

      March 21, 2024 at 9:27 am

      @lowtechcyclist: It ignores reality.  I was reading a recent study on retirement (in the Washington Post the last few days?), and 50% of people end up retiring earlier than they wanted to retire.  1/3 of for seniors retired early because of job changes, a nice euphemism for being either laid off or forced into retirement.  The remainder to get to the 50% number were people retiring because of health reasons.  Now in my late 50’s I am seeing people that lost jobs not being able to get new positions in their careers.  You can raise the retirement age, but already half of seniors are being forced out of work due to age discrimination and health.  A college professor with tenure can work as long as they like, but a carpenter or nurse often doesn’t have the physical abilities needed.  Raising the retirement age really screws blue collar workers, knees, hips, backs and more give out after 40 years of labor. I know senior engineers laid off that never get another position, a young person is cheaper to pay, cheaper to insure and more.   The wealthy have done exceedingly well the last couple of generations, asking them for a little more to keep seniors out of poverty seems eminently reasonable.

      Reply
    53. 53.

      Soprano2

      March 21, 2024 at 9:28 am

      @catclub: I don’t know if it’s completely true, but I have read that many people don’t even have $400 for emergencies. I spent a year trying to sell investment accounts; that’s what I base my beliefs on. I don’t think BJ commenters are a good sample of the average population. Many people can’t build up any savings because as soon as they get a little bit of money saved up they need a car repair, or have a medical bill they need to pay, or something else like that. The savings rate in this country is bad – it’s around 4%.

      Reply
    54. 54.

      Betty Cracker

      March 21, 2024 at 9:29 am

      @Kay: I read some of a transcript of that interview. Good gourd, what a vacuous idiot that guy is! This isn’t new info — he’s always been a rich fuck-up who would be incapable of running a carwash without family wealth. But his responses to those questions really underscore what a moron Kushner is. He got snippy with the interviewer at one point too. Maybe a tone of incredulity crept in and insulted him. He’s got that in common with his FIL — he’s an arrogant baby who melts down when challenged.

      Reply
    55. 55.

      SFAW

      March 21, 2024 at 9:30 am

      @Betty Cracker:

      I wish I were confident the DOJ wouldn’t fall for that bullshit again, but I am not.

      Careful! You’re bordering on heresy against St. Merrick!

      Reply
    56. 56.

      Chief Oshkosh

      March 21, 2024 at 9:30 am

      @Kay:

      They can’t get rid of it. Half of Americans have no retirement savings – zero. They would have a huge elderly population out on the street.

      I don’t think that “they” think that’s as much of a problem as you do. Of the dozen or so truly wealthy families that I’ve rubbed shoulders with over the years, exactly one of them would see it your way. The rest of them would enjoy a world in which everyone works for them, and when they can no longer work for them due to age and infirmity, they are left to die (or killed, if legal). It’s the enslaver mentality, and it’s a real thing.

      Reply
    57. 57.

      Soprano2

      March 21, 2024 at 9:30 am

      @comrade scotts agenda of rage: Yep, that’s EXACTLY what I’m talking about. My brother-in-law and his wife have been living in my deceased father-in-law’s house rent free since the early ’90’s. Ask me how much money they have saved up. NONE.

      Reply
    58. 58.

      Betty

      March 21, 2024 at 9:31 am

      @Suzanne: All of which means we need young immigrants to keep both the economy and Social Security on an even keel.

      Reply
    59. 59.

      Kay

      March 21, 2024 at 9:31 am

      @sab:

      This is exactly what the opponents of this war say – that the plan is to “relocate” Palestinians and steal their property. There are people arguing that that’s a conspiracy theory too, but now Kushner opened his big mouth and they’re going bonkers, thinking they have been proven right. He is making everything worse.

      Reply
    60. 60.

      Soprano2

      March 21, 2024 at 9:32 am

      @Ohio Mom: It would end up in savings accounts earning almost no interest. If you’ve ever spent much time talking to people about saving and investing money you know it’s a dumb idea. You’re right, most people have no idea how to manage money like that.

      Reply
    61. 61.

      NotMax

      March 21, 2024 at 9:33 am

      @Omnes Omibus

      Add in that the underlying case is about lying about the value of assets and you really have something.

      It isn’t often the proverbial grasshopper has opportunity to let loose with a Nelson Muntz laugh.
      ;)

      Reply
    62. 62.

      SFAW

      March 21, 2024 at 9:33 am

      @Kay: ​
       

      They would have a huge elderly population out on the street.

      “Are there no workhouses? Are there no 55-Plus/Assisted Living Prisons?”

      Reply
    63. 63.

      Kay

      March 21, 2024 at 9:33 am

      @Betty Cracker:

      He could not have inflamed the anger of Arab Americans more. This is EXACTLY what they fear will happen.

      Reply
    64. 64.

      Soprano2

      March 21, 2024 at 9:33 am

      @Kay: Yep, if you think the homeless problem is bad now get rid of SS and see what happens. Does everyone want to have their parents living with them? It’s an insane idea.

      Reply
    65. 65.

      Chief Oshkosh

      March 21, 2024 at 9:34 am

      @rusty:

      I know senior engineers laid off that never get another position,

      Yep, I know two senior engineers who were laid off during a bust portion of a boom/bust cycle that often occurs in the MIC. One of them simply gave up after a while and is essentially living the life of an impoverished hermit. The other is delivering pizzas.

      Reply
    66. 66.

      geg6

      March 21, 2024 at 9:35 am

      @catclub: ​
       
      Not everyone has a 401K or a pension. Many people live on SS and, maybe if they are cognitively there and relatively healthy, a part-time job. I would say the vast majority of people who are middle or lower middle class are in that group.

      Reply
    67. 67.

      zhena gogolia

      March 21, 2024 at 9:35 am

      @Kay: Like the Russians in Mariupol.

      Reply
    68. 68.

      zhena gogolia

      March 21, 2024 at 9:36 am

      @SFAW: No one here has called Garland a saint. Who is your candidate for AG who would have done a better job?

      Reply
    69. 69.

      Soprano2

      March 21, 2024 at 9:37 am

      @Kay: So who does he suggest move them? Does he think the Israeli army should go in there and forcibly remove them? To where? Talk about an idiot……

      Reply
    70. 70.

      zhena gogolia

      March 21, 2024 at 9:37 am

      @Kay: So I assume this will motivate concerned voters to work to re-elect Biden.

      Reply
    71. 71.

      Baud

      March 21, 2024 at 9:37 am

      NFTs > Social Security

      Reply
    72. 72.

      NotMax

      March 21, 2024 at 9:38 am

      @Kay

      “Are there no prisons pensions? Are there no workhouses ice floes?”
      //

      Reply
    73. 73.

      Caveatimperator

      March 21, 2024 at 9:38 am

      @Soprano2:

      Kushner is the kind of person who sees people as income sources and not, you know, people.

      Reply
    74. 74.

      Soprano2

      March 21, 2024 at 9:38 am

      @geg6: I Googled it; about 1 in 10 people have a private pension plan (I’m one of those lucky people), while about half have some kind of 401K type plan. So that means around 40% of workers in the U.S. have nothing but Social Security.

      Reply
    75. 75.

      hueyplong

      March 21, 2024 at 9:39 am

      @Kay: Can’t think of a better way to demonstrate that Trump would in fact be worse than Biden on the “fails to support Palestinians” issue.

      Reply
    76. 76.

      Caveatimperator

      March 21, 2024 at 9:39 am

      @NotMax:

      Almost no pensions outside of the public sector, and the Republicans are trying to kill those too.

      And fewer and fewer ice floes due to climate change, which they don’t believe is real.

      Reply
    77. 77.

      Baud

      March 21, 2024 at 9:39 am

      Via reddit

      U.S. President Joe Biden announced Thursday that $6 billion in student loans would be canceled for 78,000 borrowers, bringing his administration’s total student debt cancellation to nearly $150 billion.

      Reply
    78. 78.

      geg6

      March 21, 2024 at 9:41 am

      @catclub: ​
       

      yes, I know there is a lot of privilege getting to the Vanguard Customer level. But there are lots of those people, too. My guess, at least 30% of the population.

      70% of the BJ population.

      I don’ t even know what that means, let alone believe I’m in that group. And I have a graduate degree. I will not be able to live on SS and proceeds from my 401K unless I can get lucky enough to get some sort of government funded 55+ housing. My plan is to retire when I’m 67 and then find a part-time job if possible. Otherwise, I”m screwed. My John and I are not married and I will likely outlive him (he’s 77 now), so I’ll be on my own.

      Reply
    79. 79.

      NotMax

      March 21, 2024 at 9:42 am

      @SFAW

      Great minds work in tandem. :)

      (Your comment not yet visible whilst I was typing above.)

      Reply
    80. 80.

      hueyplong

      March 21, 2024 at 9:42 am

      @NotMax: A tandem seems appropriate for one trick ponies.

      Reply
    81. 81.

      Kay

      March 21, 2024 at 9:43 am

      @zhena gogolia:

      Well, but we still haven’t squared our circle. On the one hand we’re telling them Biden and the US have no influence or control in Israel and in the next breath we say “but Trump will and it will really bad!”

      You can’t have “Biden and the US have no control or influence” when it suits your political aims and then do a 180 to warn of Trump’s influence and control. Either the US has influence or it doesn’t. I think it does.

      Reply
    82. 82.

      sab

      March 21, 2024 at 9:45 am

      @Kay: Nobody has ever lived in the southern Negev because there is zero water there. Bedouins used to survive there by robbing Christian pilgrims on their way to Mt Sinai, but that is about it. It is not a survivable part of the world.

      Jared is a complete moron. It says a lot about Ivanka (reputably a rather bright girl, like her mom not her dad)  that she thought he was marriage material.

      ETA Biblically Moses and crew spent forty years there. I have never believed that. I believe it just felt like forty years to them. A very harsh environment.

      Reply
    83. 83.

      Kay

      March 21, 2024 at 9:45 am

      @Soprano2:

      He makes a claw motion with his hand, like he’s picking them up and dropping them somewhere. Fucking monster.

      Reply
    84. 84.

      Baud

      March 21, 2024 at 9:45 am

      @Kay:

      Either the US has influence or it doesn’t.

      Regardless of the politics, that’s not entirely correct. Our influence when opposing Bibi isn’t symmetric with our influence when supporting Bibi

      Reply
    85. 85.

      hueyplong

      March 21, 2024 at 9:46 am

      @Kay: I actually think you can.

      Trump can and does take bad actions in spheres in which no other president has acted.

      Reply
    86. 86.

      SFAW

      March 21, 2024 at 9:47 am

      @rusty: ​
       

      I know senior engineers laid off that never get another position, a young person is cheaper to pay, cheaper to insure and more.

      Forty-plus years ago, the general “thought” was that engineers over 35 didn’t learn anything new, were not on a growth curve, etc. That translated into older engineers not getting hired (unless they knew someone) as often as their experience/skills would indicate they should/would. Age discrimination in hiring is real, and (in my opinion) much harder to prove than racial/gender discrimination.
      It of course goes beyond engineering: a few years ago, before COVID, I interviewed at CVS for a pharmacy tech position (where they would train me, leading to certification). The 20-something interviewer — once she saw me — did everything she could to dissuade me from pursuing the job further, without actually saying “you’re kinda old.” I was tempted to tell her she was being obvious, but thought doing so would be pointless.

      Reply
    87. 87.

      zhena gogolia

      March 21, 2024 at 9:50 am

      @Kay: Okay, I give up. Trump will cut off aid to Israel on day one and introduce the two-state solution. So vote for him, by all means.

      Reply
    88. 88.

      rikyrah

      March 21, 2024 at 9:50 am

      Good Morning Everyone 😊😊😊

      Reply
    89. 89.

      SFAW

      March 21, 2024 at 9:51 am

      @NotMax: ​
       

      Great minds work in tandem.

      Agreed, but that doesn’t explain me.

      And, please, don’t get depressed (the way Omnes does) when we’re thinking the same way. Well, along the same lines, to be more accurate.

      Reply
    90. 90.

      Baud

      March 21, 2024 at 9:51 am

      @rikyrah:

      Good morning.

      Reply
    91. 91.

      Kay

      March 21, 2024 at 9:51 am

      @Baud:

      Well, I just hope “Bibi” – which is kind of our euphemism for the “far Right in Israel” because Israel, unlike Russia, still has elections and they’ve been electing a far Right government for a decade, don’t succeed in their effort to defeat Joe Biden due to Joe Biden’s unwavering loyalty and support. That would suck. For the United States.

      Reply
    92. 92.

      Omnes Omnibus

      March 21, 2024 at 9:51 am

      @Kay: “Biden and the US have no control or influence”

      Bit of a strawman there.  Saying that there are limits on the power and influence of the US is not the same as saying that the US has no power or influence.

      Reply
    93. 93.

      Kay

      March 21, 2024 at 9:53 am

      @Omnes Omnibus:

      But people say it regularly here! “Do they think Joe Biden controls Netanyahu?” with each new atrocity.

      Reply
    94. 94.

      Baud

      March 21, 2024 at 9:53 am

      @Kay:

      I hope not too.  But I know I’ll be voting for the best chamce the Palestinians have in November, so my conscience is clear.

      Reply
    95. 95.

      TBone

      March 21, 2024 at 9:54 am

      @Ohio Mom: my dad made millions by doing what I politely term “scattershot” investing. He was so diversified that it took over a year to track down, divest, and distribute what was liquid.  Vanguard was a big chunk, and getting them to move the accounts to the beneficiaries was eye-wateringly tedious and difficult.

      Reply
    96. 96.

      japa21

      March 21, 2024 at 9:55 am

      @Kay: The question is, influence in what way?  Influence to support what Bibi wants to do anyway and helping provide him the means to do it?  Sure, we have that and Trump is the best example of that.  Influence to stop Bibi from doing what he wants? That’s far more tenuous.  The best way to wield that influence is to stop providing military support, and I am pretty sure Biden is on the verge of doing that.

      In fact, IIRC, the aid supplemental provides funds for Israel but at the discretion of the President.

      IOW, it’s not totally an either/or proposition.

      Reply
    97. 97.

      gvg

      March 21, 2024 at 9:56 am

      @comrade scotts agenda of rage: based on my deceased grandfather it’s C. Hate to admit it but he was not the sharpest tool. Did not believe Regan meant it the last time when Regan ran promising to cut SS and raise the age. Voted for the party that hurt him, and then complained when they did what they said to my father (son in law) who vented to me so that he didn’t alienate his father in law. It did make an impression on me. I think I was always skeptical of republicans after that. I was very young, maybe 10 or so. Dad’s work environment (defense engineering) also required him to keep quiet, but he thought his fellow engineers were fools who thought they knew about money but didn’t really. They always thought they could have had a better return if they had kept the SS withholding and invested it. Dad said that is not the way it works out…..

      Reply
    98. 98.

      Geminid

      March 21, 2024 at 9:56 am

      Virginia state Senator John McGuire is challenging 5th CD Rep. Bob Good and several Congressional Republicans attended a McGuire fundraiser Wednesday night. Intelligence Committee Chairman Mike Turner showed up, as did freshman Rep. Jen Kiggans (VA02). The McGuire-Good contest is already producing hard feelings and I hope they trail Kiggans back to her Virginia Beach-based district, where Democrats hope to unseat her this fall.

      Good has his own Congressional supporters, and Chip Roy and Matt Gaetz will campaign with him next week. Cardinal News, which focuses on Southside Virginia stories, has been covering this race closely. The primary will be held in June.

      Reply
    99. 99.

      Omnes Omnibus

      March 21, 2024 at 9:57 am

      @Kay: ​
        Come on. Control and influence are very different things. And influence has limits.

      Reply
    100. 100.

      gvg

      March 21, 2024 at 9:58 am

      @Soprano2: That is also how life is. Emergencies happen like layoffs. If people control it, it can be taken from them by bill collectors and they can’t stop it.

      Reply
    101. 101.

      TBone

      March 21, 2024 at 9:59 am

      @Chief Oshkosh: a wealthy family I worked for was about half and half what you described.  Some cared and the others didn’t have the empathy gene.  They purchased a home for a woman who’d spent her life cleaning  their family home and caring for them in general when she was too old to continue.

      Reply
    102. 102.

      Kay

      March 21, 2024 at 10:01 am

      @japa21:

      That’s fair. I just think this issue is a real threat to Biden’s re-elect and it shouldn’t be dismissed as “oh, it’s just the Lefties with the public option again!” All that does is insult Arab Americans more.

      ANY Democratic group in our coalition would object to a US policy they think targets them for annihilation. They think the US is not as concerned with whether they live or die because they are Arab and/or Muslim. They think the US has chosen a group of people to support and that group excludes them.

      Reply
    103. 103.

      Jeffro

      March 21, 2024 at 10:01 am

      @comrade scotts agenda of rage: [the GOP will] do anything, anytime, to dismantle Social Security.  Raising the retirement age is just another trope in their SS-killing meme kit.

      They can’t help themselves.  There’s positively TRILLIONS sitting there, just waiting to be skimmed and stolen!

      Reply
    104. 104.

      Baud

      March 21, 2024 at 10:02 am

      @gvg:

      Farmers are some of the staunchest Republicans despite the need for all those Farm Aid concerts during Reagan.

      Reply
    105. 105.

      Marcopolo

      March 21, 2024 at 10:02 am

      @Kay:  Thanks for the link to that 2022 article.  Loved all the interactive features for looking at how much money how many people have saved at different ages.  One thing noted is that the average annual SS payment is $22,000/yr.  I think we can all agree that that is really not enough to live on, which is why so many folks are working into their 70s.  SS & Medicare (saw the Rs are gunning for Medicaid too—don’t think they mentioned Medicare) were direct attempts to deal with geriatric poverty (thanks FDR).  If Rs continue down this path w/ cuts to SS it’ll be interesting to see if MAGA tribalism is a more powerful force than peoples lived experience.  What am I saying, the “leopards eating my face off party” will no doubt vote against their own interests.

      Reply
    106. 106.

      Geminid

      March 21, 2024 at 10:03 am

      @sab: Gaza’s 25 miles of coast line actually has some of the nicest beaches on the Mediterranean, but no one is going to spend any money developing them without a treaty between Israel and a Palestinian state.

      Reply
    107. 107.

      Baud

      March 21, 2024 at 10:04 am

      @Marcopolo:

      The big problem with politics is that the Republican voter can’t or won’t hold Republicans accountable for anything except being too nice to Democrats.

      Reply
    108. 108.

      Kay

      March 21, 2024 at 10:05 am

      @Omnes Omnibus:

      How about telling them the truth? The US is never, ever going to stop providing weapons and support no matter what happens, under any President. Tell them Democrats will be better on humanitarian and rebuilding aid after Gaza is completely leveled. That’s the best they’re going to get. Let’s treat them like equal members of our coalition to whom we tell the truth.

      Reply
    109. 109.

      Soprano2

      March 21, 2024 at 10:05 am

      @Kay: Dropping them “somewhere”. That’s the depth of his thinking, that they need to go somewhere else because he thinks wealthy investors could make better use of the land they are occupying. Monster is right.

      Reply
    110. 110.

      oldgold

      March 21, 2024 at 10:06 am

      @zhena gogolia: Who is your candidate for AG who would have done a better job?

      Dan Goldman

      Reply
    111. 111.

      Dorothy A. Winsor

      March 21, 2024 at 10:07 am

      @Marcopolo: In the past, the SS slashers dealt with this by saying the cuts would apply only to people under a certain age. Anyone who already had SS or was within, say, 20 years of it, would continue under rules as they are.

      Reply
    112. 112.

      Marcopolo

      March 21, 2024 at 10:07 am

      @Baud: There are a lot fewer farmers now than there were 45 years ago.  And the only wealthy farmers I know are the ones who sold their land for development into subdivisions as the exurbs overran where they were located (though a few do make a fair amount from the gov’t paying them to to farm their acreage).  Obviously those folks no longer farm.

      Reply
    113. 113.

      Jeffro

      March 21, 2024 at 10:08 am

      @catclub: It is my contention that if Trump had only done a barely mediocre job managing the federal Government response [ be quiet, don’t say and do incredibly stupid things, accept advice from expert consensus], he would have been re-elected in a landslide.

      Him being obviously stupid and uncaring on TV most every day while thousands of Americans were dying of Covid each day.

      But remember: he was saying and doing stupid and hateful things the whole way through his presidency.  I’d be surprised if he had done better than a very narrow EC win with yet another popular vote loss.

      (also: noting that “if only trump would’ve shut his mouth” is essentially the same as wishing for the impossible  =)

      Anyway, thank goodness we don’t live a world where trump won re-election, because we would be SO screwed as a nation, in so many ways.  Given his inaction (and worse) on Covid, we’d have had another million or more dead Americans, we’d be looking at yet another gazillion trump judges, and we’d be a Russian vassal state to boot.

      Reply
    114. 114.

      Kay

      March 21, 2024 at 10:08 am

      @Marcopolo:

      The median income where I live is 34k. White working class. They have zero retirement savings. This is not their fault. They were barely making it their entire lives. A lot of them have debt at 65 and 70.

      Social Security is essential. They only “live on it” with subsidized low income housing for seniors and food stamps. Without the other parts of the safety net AND Soc Sec they would not make it.

      Reply
    115. 115.

      Omnes Omnibus

      March 21, 2024 at 10:08 am

      @Kay: ​
        That escalated rather quickly.

      Reply
    116. 116.

      Soprano2

      March 21, 2024 at 10:09 am

      @gvg: Yes, that is another factor – could it be garnished? Can’t do that with SS.

      Reply
    117. 117.

      comrade scotts agenda of rage

      March 21, 2024 at 10:09 am

      @Jeffro:

      There’s positively TRILLIONS sitting there, just waiting to be skimmed and stolen!

      Nancy SMASH! brilliantly worked this back in 05-07 when Dubya was attempting to basically privatize SS.  Once people started looking at just how much money would go to investment bankers, they balked and she messaged that brilliantly.

      The Great Recession proved the point.  As it typical of the GQP, they’re now hoping it’s far enough in the past that people will not immediately associate the banksters with any benefit associated with giving them all those sweet monies in the SS trust fund.

      Reply
    118. 118.

      Marcopolo

      March 21, 2024 at 10:10 am

      @Dorothy A. Winsor: I dunno, I thought at least a few folks worried about prospects for their kids & grandkids.  Not to mention my circle of friends includes folks from 5-10 years younger than I am to 5-10 years older.  Lol, but then I also care about what happens to my friends.  Guess I’m weird like that.

      Reply
    119. 119.

      New Deal democrat

      March 21, 2024 at 10:11 am

      @gvg: The late Jack Bogle, the founder of Vanguard, once did an interview the substance of which was that, during the greatest bull market in US history, from 1982 to 2001, the average active individual investor got a return of 1% over inflation.

      On another subject, for those who didn’t follow it yesterday, the 5th Circuit took the hint (by way of very politely hitting them over the head with a sledgehammer) of Justices Barrett and Kavanaugh, and immediately allowed the injunction by the US District Court against Texas’s immigration law to resume, scheduled oral argument on continuing it for 12 hours later, and the Chief Judge voiced skepticism about the validity of the law.

      Reply
    120. 120.

      Geminid

      March 21, 2024 at 10:12 am

       

       

      @japa21: I saw a credible report last December that a few days into the war, Netanyahu called Biden, Macron and Sunak and asked them to talk Egyptian President El Sissi into allowing Israel to push Gaza residents into Egypt. The report said they all told him, No way, El Sissi won’t stand for it and neither will we.

      Reply
    121. 121.

      gvg

      March 21, 2024 at 10:12 am

      @Soprano2: I think part of the reason the saving rate is so bad is savings accounts have paid almost nothing for so long. people don’t even think about them anymore. And you have to have a certain amount before you can invest.

      Another factor is the lower and middle class wage stagnation of the last several decades. it’s harder to have any excess, nor is there a lot of prospect of it. I have suspected part of the reason that was able to persist so long was the bigger population of the baby boomers caused some excess in workers. Scarcity raises a cost, excess causes price to go down. Now that cohert is retiring and NOW wages finally have to go up.

      Reply
    122. 122.

      Kay

      March 21, 2024 at 10:17 am

      @Omnes Omnibus:

      They think the US is less concerned about civilian casualties in Gaza than in Ukraine because we assign less value to Arab and/or Muslim lives. I guess I don’t understand why Democrats are pretending this isn’t at the root of their anger. We’re the party that recognizes bias and numerical minorities.

      Reply
    123. 123.

      Jeffro

      March 21, 2024 at 10:18 am

      @Kay:

      Jared Kushner, former senior foreign policy adviser to Donald Trump, has said waterfront property in Gaza could be “very valuable” and that Israel should move Palestinians out of Gaza to enable an attack on Rafah

      Kay: He said “move… the people out” – good God. He’s just cheerfully announcing that Israel should steal all their property and develop it as luxury waterfront.

      It’s helpful, I think, for the Republicans to be this blatant.  In theory, it provides clarity to voters as to which administration will help Gazans (even if that help is, in voters’ eyes, not enough) and which administration will build ocean-view condos on Gazan childrens’ graves.

      Reply
    124. 124.

      Cacti

      March 21, 2024 at 10:19 am

      @zhena gogolia: Au contraire. There several here who think Merrick Garland is just dreamy, and if you point out all the ways he’s been a feckless coward, they just put their fingers in their ears and say “la la la la la”.

      Reply
    125. 125.

      Brachiator

      March 21, 2024 at 10:20 am

      @The Thin Black Duke:

      @NotMax:

      Friedkin got away with it, but that’s because he was a genius.

      I didn’t care for Friedkin’s version at all. I love the hell out of The Wages of Fear.

      Also, I think that it was not very successful because the title led many people to expect a sequel to The Exorcist.

      Reply
    126. 126.

      Mousebumples

      March 21, 2024 at 10:21 am

      @Omnes Omnibus: yeah, that’s why I’m thinking it’s unlikely, but I’m not ruling out some option from working out. 🤷‍♀️

      I figure Jack Smith has a team monitoring for any attempts to sell (currently hidden) US Secrets for cash flow…. Right?

      @rikyrah: good morning!

      Reply
    127. 127.

      Jeffro

      March 21, 2024 at 10:21 am

      @Baud:NFTs > Social Security

      ha!

      NFTs, bitcoin, and MLMs* are the new “three-legged stool”

      *or flipping houses

      *or maybe it’s now a four-legged stool?

      Reply
    128. 128.

      Kay

      March 21, 2024 at 10:22 am

      @Cacti:

      I’ve really been chewing over what you said about lawyers – how some stay in because they are institutionalists but others stay because they know the system fails/is failing/will fail. It’s been helpful to me.

      Reply
    129. 129.

      Kay

      March 21, 2024 at 10:26 am

      @Jeffro:

      The Biden Administration has been better the last 2 months or so, since the apology they made to Arab American leaders, so I guess one month. It’s just hard to come back from fuck ups in 8 months. They can’t fuck up. They have no room for error. Biden has a blind spot. The rest of the administration has to temper that – supposedly Harris is, which is good.

      Reply
    130. 130.

      Geminid

      March 21, 2024 at 10:28 am

      @Marcopolo: I saw a story on an agriculture industry site that reported on the political affiliations of farmers. It said 75% farmers said they voted Republican, and 25% said they voted Democratic.

      Reply
    131. 131.

      catclub

      March 21, 2024 at 10:28 am

      @geg6: Not everyone has a 401K or a pension. Many people live on SS and, maybe if they are cognitively there and relatively healthy, a part-time job.

       

      I agree with this. I also think that if even 10% of people given their SS as a lump to invest lose it, that is 10% too many.   But saying that everybody is in that mode: ‘it’s just human nature, it will _all_ be gone.’

      is a bit too broadbrush for me.

      Reply
    132. 132.

      gvg

      March 21, 2024 at 10:28 am

      @Kay: Well he doesn’t. But he does influence some. He is as a matter of fact, probably (almost certainly) restraining Bibi from doing worse. Trump won’t. Krushner won’t. Their administration will probably encourage Israel to go too far and then there will be backlash. It’s a lot harder to prevent someone from doing what they want, than it is to let them go.

      The problem is it is not just Bibi, there is a significant portion of the Israeli population that agrees. I think it comes from always being under attack. There were attempts at real peace decades ago and I recall the Palestinians refusing to help themselves……now there is not any left that I can see. Radicals made radicals…and the Nazis started it.

      Biden can’t perform miracles, but can only keep trying diplomacy. People want easy, but it is not there. Sometimes, voters need to grow up. We can worry about those Arab American voters, but if fact IMO Biden is doing better for them than they appreciate and if they can’t all see that, we just have to make plans to get other votes.

      Reply
    133. 133.

      Cacti

      March 21, 2024 at 10:29 am

      @Kay: The collection of 1,000 year olds that run the Biden campaign seem to have finally grokked the fact that many Dems are unhappy with his blind support of Israel.

      Only took four fucking months and 30,000 dead.

      Reply
    134. 134.

      TBone

      March 21, 2024 at 10:29 am

      Did someone mention klowns? This fucking guy.  Why is our government doing contract work with his shitty diaper WATB ass? fElon, please just implode already!

      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_OZuF5cI6Xk

      Reply
    135. 135.

      Soprano2

      March 21, 2024 at 10:29 am

      @gvg: That’s true, it’s the downside of 2% inflation. It’s not practical for most people to invest in mutual funds, because you have to have a chunk of money to put in, and then usually can’t put in less than $50 at a time. I sold a product that was an annuity linked to a small whole life policy – you could set it up to save $10/month! It was a great deal for people on the lower end of the income scale, because after a short amount of time you could convert the whole life policy to be paid up and then all of the money goes to the annuity. The annuity pays a guaranteed 4% rate of return (I still pay into mine!) If you die it’s paid out tax free like life insurance; if you reach retirement, you convert it to pay out. My husband gets around $65/month from the one he bought (that’s how we met, we were both working for that company). Do you know how hard it is to get people to save even $10/month in a place where they can’t get their hands on it? Extremely hard! So hard that I quit after 6 months because I wasn’t selling anything. People are extremely resistant to putting money in an account where they can’t easily draw it out if they have any kind of emergency, or just want to buy a new TV. EXTREMELY RESISTANT. I can’t emphasize this enough – it was the worst feature of the investment for most people, “you mean if I need to repair my car I can’t just draw the money out of there?” was the kind of thing I heard a lot of the time. When people live on the lower end of the income scale, they are terrified of having any money they can’t use when they need it – to them that concept is foreign. That’s why we can’t privatize SS, because if they can get their hands on it at all it’ll be gone. I understand the mindset, but it’s self-defeating for them in the long run.

      ETA – I remember one woman I helped. She couldn’t save up much money because she had a son who was on SS disability, so building up any kind of assets would be penalized by taking away his benefit. This account didn’t count toward that because it was considered life insurance. I set her up on $20/month. I’ve often wondered how she’s doing now.

      Reply
    136. 136.

      Brachiator

      March 21, 2024 at 10:30 am

      NEW: Republicans call for raising the Social Security retirement age in clash with Biden

      The GOP must really be feeling frisky if they believe that they can offer outrageous proposals to screw with Social Security and the retirement age.

      Reply
    137. 137.

      catclub

      March 21, 2024 at 10:30 am

      @Jeffro: NFTs, bitcoin, and MLMs* are the new “three-legged stool”

       

      lol. there are very few MLMM’s  MultiLevel Marketing Millionaires.

      Reply
    138. 138.

      Hoodie

      March 21, 2024 at 10:31 am

      @Kay: That not even half of it.  There will be no jobs for most of those people and/or they will be incapable of performing jobs, so they will be impoverished.  If you impoverish that many Americans, we’ll enter a deflationary spiral and the economy will implode as consumer demand evaporates.  There’s only so much people can borrow to keep it going and we’re already at a record level of consumer debt.  Maybe the sociopaths think they will be able to profit from a collapse and, of course, increased wealth tends to lead to increased sociopathy.   A succinct explanation I read a while back is that this is driven by the American wealthy wanting to keep up with or surpass what they view as their global peers, e.g., Saudi princes, kleptocratic dictators like Vlad, corrupt third world monopolists, etc. Ultimately, it has to do with status.  Donald Trump, Elon Musk and others are poster children for that type of sociopathy.

      Reply
    139. 139.

      WaterGirl

      March 21, 2024 at 10:32 am

      @Dorothy A. Winsor:  Social Security etirement age in the new Republican proposal?

      I believe it is one year after death.

      Reply
    140. 140.

      Hoodie

      March 21, 2024 at 10:32 am

      @Brachiator: Not to mention that they keep saying Biden is too old to work.  I wish they’d make up their minds.

      Reply
    141. 141.

      louc

      March 21, 2024 at 10:34 am

      @rusty:

       

      I was reading a recent study on retirement (in the Washington Post the last few days?), and 50% of people end up retiring earlier than they wanted to retire. 1/3 of for seniors retired early because of job changes, a nice euphemism for being either laid off or forced into retirement.

      That happened to my husband. At 62, he worked at a nonprofit that suffered loss of income and laid off one-third of the staff, including him. He tried to find another job, putting out a dozen resumes a week for a year and he used strategies like taking out dates. So he ended up retired officially at 63 and took a hit with SS.

      That’s why I laugh bitterly at those claims by Republicans. And yes, blue collar workers especially are screwed.

      Reply
    142. 142.

      catclub

      March 21, 2024 at 10:37 am

      @Kay: They think the US is less concerned about civilian casualties in Gaza than in Ukraine because we assign less value to Arab and/or Muslim lives.

       

      I am not sure what they you are referring to, but from my reading of the press, concern about Ukrainian civilian casualties has completely dropped off the news, compared with casualties in Gaza. Starting about Nov 1. The fact that we have not gotten that supplemental to the Ukrainians is another item that says the US does not care about Ukraine.

      Reply
    143. 143.

      Kay

      March 21, 2024 at 10:39 am

      @gvg:

      Here’s my thing – Democrats have NOT, traditionally, dismissed the grave and serious concerns of minority members of our coalition as “people need to grow up” or “people want easy solutions”. 30k deda civilians. That’s real. So why are we doing that with just this group in our coalition? I mean, I am not Arab or Muslim and I see it. If I see it imagine how they see it.

      Reply
    144. 144.

      Hoodie

      March 21, 2024 at 10:39 am

      Journalists might actually pay attention to Republicans messing with SS/Medicare now that a lot of them are losing their jobs.

      Reply
    145. 145.

      Soprano2

      March 21, 2024 at 10:39 am

      @catclub: Get a job where you try to convince people to save money where they can’t get it when they have an emergency. Do it for 6 months and then get back to me about the results. I agree it’s not everybody, but for the the vast majority of people who really need that SS when they get to retirement age it’s true. They might not spend all of it, but a significant amount would be spent on other things.

      Reply
    146. 146.

      Soprano2

      March 21, 2024 at 10:41 am

      @gvg: there is a significant portion of the Israeli population that agrees.

      I keep thinking about the Israeli woman who told an interviewer that when she sees a Palestinian child crying over the loss of their parents, or because they’re hungry, all she sees is a future terrorist who wants to kill her and her family and friends. That’s a not insignificant part of the Israeli public right now.

      Reply
    147. 147.

      Jeffro

      March 21, 2024 at 10:42 am

      @Geminid: rooting for (GOP) injuries here in the 5th!

      I know McGuire is a loon, but Good’s a do-nothing, stupid loon, and of course my overall hope is that the infighting depresses Republican turnout well enough to hand the district to the Democrats.

      (I know, I know…but still)

      Reply
    148. 148.

      Brachiator

      March 21, 2024 at 10:43 am

      @Soprano2:

      It’s not practical for most people to invest in mutual funds, because you have a chunk of money to put in, and then usually can’t put in less than $50 at a time.

      This is more a psychological barrier than a real practical barrier. Many people refuse to save for investment purposes, let alone retirement. From years of being in the tax industry, I have run across many people who believe that investing in the stock market is either gambling or only for rich people.

      And it’s weird how people who easily spend $100 or more a month for cable or streaming services cannot put $50 a month into a mutual fund.

      I knew one guy who had a good amount of money in a low yield savings account who was always waiting for a hit tip stock to invest in. He lost a lot of money with this attitude.

      Another guy always wanted quick access to his money. He would always say, “Who knows. You might die tomorrow.” He lived to be 82.

      Reply
    149. 149.

      Omnes Omnibus

      March 21, 2024 at 10:43 am

      @Soprano2: GOP voters are a not insignificant part of the US population right now as well.

      Reply
    150. 150.

      Kay

      March 21, 2024 at 10:43 am

      @Soprano2:

      They do pull it out a lot. They can also borrow on many plans, which is just a fucking disaster. I cannot tell you how many pay records I have seen where there’s a monthly charge on a 401k loan.

      It’s actually worse than “not saving”. A lot of them have debt.

      Reply
    151. 151.

      Steve in the ATL

      March 21, 2024 at 10:44 am

      @Baud:

      NFTs > Social Security

      This seems a good place for the classic “I am intrigued by your ideas and would like to subscribe to your newsletter”

      Reply
    152. 152.

      Hoodie

      March 21, 2024 at 10:45 am

      @Soprano2: The whole point of Social Security is that it’s an  insurance system for both the recipient and the country.  It insures against what you’re discussing, i.e., it prevents people from impoverishing themselves.  A lot of impoverished people can lead to political instability.   Bismarck  figured that out in the 19th century.

      Reply
    153. 153.

      Kay

      March 21, 2024 at 10:46 am

       

      I know it’s a hard needle to thread! Welcome to coalition politics. We need every one of our voter groups. All of them. So even if ensuring we are even handed wasn’t the right thing to do (it is) it would be the politically necessary thing to do.

      Reply
    154. 154.

      Jeffro

      March 21, 2024 at 10:47 am

      @Kay:Social Security is essential. They only “live on it” with subsidized low income housing for seniors and food stamps. Without the other parts of the safety net AND Soc Sec they would not make it.

      so true

      The folks who come through the line at the mobile food pantry where I volunteer are almost exclusively senior citizens.

      Reply
    155. 155.

      Cacti

      March 21, 2024 at 10:47 am

      @Soprano2: I keep thinking about the Israeli woman who told an interviewer that when she sees a Palestinian child crying over the loss of their parents, or because they’re hungry, all she sees is a future terrorist who wants to kill her and her family and friends. That’s a not insignificant part of the Israeli public right now.

      The willful blindness required to not connect the first part to the second never ceases to amaze me.

      Reply
    156. 156.

      cain

      March 21, 2024 at 10:51 am

      @Betty Cracker: I encourage them to reveal themselves.

      Reply
    157. 157.

      Kay

      March 21, 2024 at 10:52 am

      @Jeffro:

      I tell them about food stamps a lot. They often think only people with children get them. It can make the difference between being able to pay for gas and car insurance and being entirely trapped at home. We don’t have public transpo. We DO have subsidized low income senior housing though. Wait listed, but we have some. They can also get a free cell phone thru the county (there’s a federal subsidy) so I tell them that too.

      Reply
    158. 158.

      Geminid

      March 21, 2024 at 10:53 am

      @Jeffro: Actually, if Cameron Webb runs again in 2028 he might have a chance, depending on demographic and political trends in the 5th CD. In the meantime though, I’m hoping McGuire knocks that creepy asshole Good out.

      Reply
    159. 159.

      catclub

      March 21, 2024 at 10:53 am

      @Soprano2:

      This is what i was responding to:

      The problem with that is, as anyone who has ever talked to people about saving money knows, 95% of people would have all the money spent on other stuff before retirement ever happened. Unless the account was set up so that the person couldn’t have access to the money, I guarantee you it would be used to pay for car repairs and boats and vacations and all kinds of other stuff that isn’t retirement.

       

      Again, if even 5% of those people given control of a lump sum lose it all, that is too many.  But I totally disagree with your 95% number. My guess is more like 20%, 4 times as terrible as I already said was too many. less than 1/4 of 95%

      Reply
    160. 160.

      stinger

      March 21, 2024 at 10:56 am

      @Soprano2:

      Yeah, that hearing yesterday was pretty bad for the Republicans.

      My favorite part was when Rep. Moskowitz proposed that they actually initiate impeachment proceedings and invited Comer to second his motion.

      For those who missed it.

      Brilliant! Wish he was my rep.

      Reply
    161. 161.

      Brachiator

      March 21, 2024 at 10:58 am

      @geg6:

      @catclub: ​

      Not everyone has a 401K or a pension. Many people live on SS and, maybe if they are cognitively there and relatively healthy, a part-time job. I would say the vast majority of people who are middle or lower middle class are in that group.

      I have looked for, but cannot find, a comprehensive report on US retirement income. For example, how many people live exclusively on Social Security, and the average total retirement income of various income groups.

      I know some people who took Social Security at age 62 because of layoffs in their early 50s. This reduced the amount they received monthly. Some also had a 401K that they can dip into.

      I also know that as a matter of tax policy, there are some people so rich that they are trying to raise the age when they must begin taking retirement income to age 75 or later because they don’t need extra retirement income at all, and want to delay having to receive taxable income that they want to leave to their beneficiaries or to charities.

      Reply
    162. 162.

      sdhays

      March 21, 2024 at 11:02 am

      @oldgold: I assumed that he would end up declaring bankruptcy in the event he couldn’t get a bond for his appeal. It works well for him – he keeps control of everything through the election and can then back out later. That’s, after all, his strategy for just about everything. And the idea of having the government taking your stuff being better politically…I don’t know. It can outrage certain people, but it also makes him look weak. And he’s losing his money and buildings and stuff.

      But I failed to account for his ability to feel shame. So much of the time, he (and Republicans in general) simply don’t seem to have the ability to be shamed at all. I don’t think he would take a new political hit from declaring bankruptcy since he has primed his people to see him as a victim of the mean government and he can say he’s “just being smart”. But he doesn’t want to have people be able to say he’s “bankrupt”. His entire self-worth is tied up in his wealth, and declaring personal bankruptcy would be hard on his fragile ego.

      Reply
    163. 163.

      cain

      March 21, 2024 at 11:08 am

      @Kay: My wife says the same thing that we are ignoring Gaza at our peril.

      At the same time though, I find it nuts when we have our own rights at stake here. That we’d not re-elect a sane person and let someone who would support bulldozing Gaza and say shit like “final solution” – it’s some whacked shit.

      Reply
    164. 164.

      Soprano2

      March 21, 2024 at 11:09 am

      @Brachiator: There was a group here at work that used to put money in a pool to play the lottery. I tried to get them interested in an investment club, but they were totally uninterested in that. They would happily tell you when they won $100, but never seemed to know how much money they spent to win that $100. I agree, a lot of it is psychological.

      My employer also has a program where you can put $10/paycheck in a deferred comp account that’s pre-tax, and they will match the $10. It’s immediately vested, so that when you leave it’s all your money. Where else can you get 100% return on money you invest? Yet you’d be surprised how many of the younger people don’t participate. Again, they’re terrified to put any money in an account where they can’t immediately get it if they have an emergency. It’s a mindset they’ve learned.

      Reply
    165. 165.

      Frank Wilhoit

      March 21, 2024 at 11:09 am

      @Jeffro: ​
       The important thing about Kushner’s comments is that they express the thinking of MBS. If they didn’t not, he would have been ordered to retract within minutes.

      Reply
    166. 166.

      sab

      March 21, 2024 at 11:10 am

      @Geminid: Gaza is not southern Negev. It is coastal so it is barely northern Negev. I agree it has lovely beaches.

      Where Kushner wants to send people is not on the mediterranean coast.

      Reply
    167. 167.

      cain

      March 21, 2024 at 11:11 am

      @Jeffro: Or completely steal their land and push them out. Even the word ‘palestinian’ would mean nothing. I’m not on board for that. Everyone deserves to have a homeland.

      Reply
    168. 168.

      Soprano2

      March 21, 2024 at 11:12 am

      @Kay: Glad to see that someone with actual experience of this agrees with me. It’s a mindset that they’ve learned, that tomorrow is never going to come so you might as well spend it all today and enjoy life.

      Reply
    169. 169.

      cain

      March 21, 2024 at 11:13 am

      @Geminid:

      @Marcopolo: I saw a story on an agriculture industry site that reported on the political affiliations of farmers. It said 75% farmers said they voted Republican, and 25% said they voted Democratic.

      GOP is willing to end “welfare” for everyone, but not for farmers. Considering that most farms are now industrial – it’s funny how everyone still has a 1950s view of what rural life is like.

      Reply
    170. 170.

      Jeffro

      March 21, 2024 at 11:13 am

      @Geminid: I don’t think he’s running…the Albemarle Dems sent me an email with links to YouTube videos for the four folks who are running on the D side.

      None of them are Cameron, unfortunately.

      I think he’s doing work for Biden in DC?

      Reply
    171. 171.

      cain

      March 21, 2024 at 11:15 am

      @gvg:

      The problem is it is not just Bibi, there is a significant portion of the Israeli population that agrees. I think it comes from always being under attack. There were attempts at real peace decades ago and I recall the Palestinians refusing to help themselves……now there is not any left that I can see. Radicals made radicals…and the Nazis started it.

      Arafat walked away from the best deal he could have gotten. The problem was that if he had accepted the deal, he would be killed as well as his family.  Palestinians still have a large number of radicals and those radicals have radicalized the Israelis because they want all the Jews to leave. They apparently can’t read the room – their Muslim brothers in other countries are no longer willing to help them because things are finally stable in the middle east and nobody wants to fuck with that.

      Reply
    172. 172.

      Tony Jay

      March 21, 2024 at 11:18 am

      @hueyplong:

      You definitely can’t ask that question!!!

      Reply
    173. 173.

      Kay

      March 21, 2024 at 11:20 am

      @Soprano2:

      They also don’t really believe in stock plans. I’ll say “you have 30k” and they’ll scoff – “supposedly”

      I get it. The stock market seems like a roulette wheel to me and I relied almost completely on a mutual fund for my own retirement. I rolled over my federal plan into a 401k when I left the post office. Finance people – not all, but many!- are way too cowboyish with other peoples money.

      Vanguard has worked out great for me. I pay a little extra for the advisor but he knows I’m risk averse. My husband does his own stock picks- much more risk tolerant and he enjoys fucking around with money where it makes me nervous- and I’ve done better over 25 years then he has. He has more though – my RATE is better :)

      I don’t lecture hourly people anymore about money. I don’t think it’s my role. I did at one time. Now I think they more need just someone in their corner. I can help them not get ripped off and screwed.

      Reply
    174. 174.

      JML

      March 21, 2024 at 11:21 am

      @Soprano2: saving is hard! it’s also (like so many things) learned behavior, so unless you got basic financial management tools in high school (which really should happen) people model off their parents and most of them don’t actually actively engage their kids on finances.

      I’m pretty frugal, but I’ve struggled to make any real dent in personal investments and I had parents that did that and talked about it. I’m also part of the legion of folks who had a long stretch where I was getting nothing into any sort of retirement because of the jobs I was working had nothing for that (and I was barely living paycheck to paycheck). All it takes is a long stretch of unemployment for someone to get very nervous about locking up a chunk of money.

      I kind of hate my current job, but at least it has retirement benefits. At least I’ve been able to save up a cushion against a layoff. I can make my house payments. I’m not rolling over any credit card balances. but I’ve also barely taken a vacation in the last 5 years.

      Reply
    175. 175.

      catclub

      March 21, 2024 at 11:21 am

      @Brachiator: This is more a psychological barrier than a real practical barrier. Many people refuse to save for investment purposes, let alone retirement.

       

      yes. their retirement plan is to buy lottery tickets because investing in stocks is too risky. ouch.

      Reply
    176. 176.

      Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

      March 21, 2024 at 11:22 am

      @gvg:

      Now that cohert is retiring and NOW wages finally have to go up.

      That scarcity has been reduced by immigration.

      Reply
    177. 177.

      Kay

      March 21, 2024 at 11:23 am

      @Soprano2:

      This is my guide- only borrow on something that appreciates. I count “education” as appreciating even if it doesn’t offer a great money return, because it has lifelong benefits, IMO. So they really onl;y can borrow for property – real estate- and education. If they just do that they’ll be better off.

      Reply
    178. 178.

      Kay

      March 21, 2024 at 11:24 am

      @Soprano2:

      They can also borrow for a small business. That should appreciate. Maybe :)

      Reply
    179. 179.

      StringOnAStick

      March 21, 2024 at 11:25 am

      @geg6: There’s a reason why half the new staff at Lowe’s is over 65 or obviously someone who still needs to work but looks like they wouldn’t be if they didn’t have to.  That’s true at every big box store That’s not electronic s.

      When I did stock trading in the late 1990’s (the golden era for ordinary people stepping up a level,; no longer doable), I had a running email argument with a young man at a trading desk about retirement, SS and Medicare; he was completely and utterly fine with old people dying in the street.  He rather demanded it be that way.  I think that’s a common attitude on Wall Street; the only reason why they’ll “settle for” privatisation is because the money will flow through Wall Street even in index funds and they’ll get a fat cut.

      Reply
    180. 180.

      Ksmiami

      March 21, 2024 at 11:26 am

      @Kay: and yet, they’re staunch Republicans and have made Ohio basically a corrupt one party state. I’m not feeling super sympathetic these days.

      Reply
    181. 181.

      Geminid

      March 21, 2024 at 11:26 am

      @Jeffro: Cameron Webb was involved in the White House Covid task force, and he may have a role now. I think he still works for the U.Va. Medical Center. Like Representatives Sharice Davids and Colin Allred, Webb was a White House Fellow during the Obama administration.

      I was sorry Sally Hudson gave up her House of Delegates seat to challenge state Senator Creigh Deeds. She could have run for Congress and still kept her seat because state and federal elections are staggered here. Hudson endorsed Abigail Spanberger for Governor so maybe she’ll get a job in the Spanberger administration.

      Reply
    182. 182.

      Ksmiami

      March 21, 2024 at 11:28 am

      @StringOnAStick: look at what’s happened with pensions investing in hedge funds for an analog

      Reply
    183. 183.

      Soprano2

      March 21, 2024 at 11:31 am

      @catclub: Probably 95% is too high, that’s true. More like 50% or so. It would be bad, especially for people at the bottom of the income ladder.

      Reply
    184. 184.

      topclimber

      March 21, 2024 at 11:33 am

      @Cacti: So millennials are running the campaign?

      Reply
    185. 185.

      Soprano2

      March 21, 2024 at 11:33 am

      @Kay: I had a man tell me once that he had at one time been worth $1 million because the business he owned had that much in accounts receivable! Talk about someone who didn’t understand how things work. He ended up filing bankruptcy on that business, I believe. It was one of those pay by the week furniture rental places, so he was dealing with the riskiest borrowers to begin with.

      Reply
    186. 186.

      Citizen Alan

      March 21, 2024 at 11:34 am

      @Kay: The issue is not whether biden can control bibi. The issue is whether the President keeps his foot on the brake or switches over to stop on the gas when it comes to genocide against the palestinians. The fact that biden is limited in his ability to force israel into a change of direction Has nothing to do with the fact that trump would and could encourage israel to do even worse.

      Reply
    187. 187.

      Soprano2

      March 21, 2024 at 11:35 am

      @Kay: I try to get these young guys to participate in the deferred comp program, because they can get that matching money that immediately belongs to them. They don’t understand what a great deal that is for what they’re paying unless you explain it to them.

      Reply
    188. 188.

      topclimber

      March 21, 2024 at 11:38 am

      @Cacti: I didn’t see the article but it seems you could read this comment as anti-war. Because, just like the US found out in IraqiStan, you kill innocent people and you manufacture jihadists.

      Reply
    189. 189.

      Soprano2

      March 21, 2024 at 11:39 am

      @StringOnAStick: They can’t stand that there’s a huge pot of money out there that they can’t earn commissions on. That’s it, that’s their problem with it. If you allowed people to invest their SS in the stock market tomorrow they’d love SS.

      Reply
    190. 190.

      Brachiator

      March 21, 2024 at 11:41 am

      @Soprano2:

      Yet you’d be surprised how many of the younger people don’t participate. Again, they’re terrified to put any money in an account where they can’t immediately get it if they have an emergency. It’s a mindset they’ve learned.

      To be fair, I know a number of people who have invested in rental property. People have their investment comfort zones, and stocks are not a comfort zone for many people.

      And your larger point stands. People want fast access to their money. It’s hard to change that mindset. Ironically enough, if you look at many people over ten year intervals, they could easily have built up a nice amount had they invested in mutual funds.

      Reply
    191. 191.

      Sure Lurkalot

      March 21, 2024 at 11:42 am

      @Soprano2: Neither private pensions or 401K’s are assured. You can build up a nice egg in a 401K and have a lot disappear in a bust cycle (see October 1987). Private pensions and promised benefits have been reduced or disappeared by buyouts and other such financial maneuvers…ask Mitt Romney how that works.

      Reply
    192. 192.

      Steve in the ATL

      March 21, 2024 at 11:46 am

      @Soprano2:@catclub: who knows what the exact percentage is, but I agree with Soprano2 on the concept, and I suspect that the real number isn’t that far from 95%    I base this on my experience  negotiating pay and benefits and working conditions for working class people every day for years.

      Most of them require weekly paychecks because they can’t budget for two weeks or half a month.  The ones on rotating schedules such as DuPont or southern swing frequently run out of money during their “long off”.  These are not sophisticated users of the financial system and they need the type of protection they get from the way SS is currently structured.

      Reply
    193. 193.

      catclub

      March 21, 2024 at 11:48 am

      @Soprano2: fair enough. cheers.

      Reply
    194. 194.

      dnfree

      March 21, 2024 at 11:51 am

      @catclub: FOR SOME PEOPLE the money would already be gone, not for everyone.  The people who used the money for other things are probably the same people who don’t make enough to have 401(k)s, or whose employer doesn’t offer them.  They’re probably the people most in need of their social security full amount.

      When GW proposed private accounts, the idea was that people would get great returns on their investments in those accounts and would come out ahead.  But the lessons of 2008-09 showed the fallacy of that argument.  People who had to retire then and start drawing either social security or their own savings were in a bad position.  Many couldn’t wait until 70, or even to what social security considers full retirement age, to start drawing reduced payments.

      Reply
    195. 195.

      StringOnAStick

      March 21, 2024 at 11:56 am

      @Ksmiami: Yep.  So much of the crap CDO and CDS stuff was sold to pension funds, mostly government ones like state, county, city; that’s where the people who don’t desire or can’t even get considered for a high pressure, potentially high reward job on Wall Street end up, in that part of the investment world and they were easy pickings for the $2,000 suit guys.  Goldman Sachs was putting together internal investments to bet against this crap that they were selling as can’t miss investment s for retirement plans.

      Reply
    196. 196.

      Brachiator

      March 21, 2024 at 11:56 am

      @JML:

      saving is hard! it’s also (like so many things) learned behavior, so unless you got basic financial management tools in high school (which really should happen) people model off their parents and most of them don’t actually actively engage their kids on finances.

      It’s strange. I have had friends and tax clients who have saved and been frugal about investing, and provided their kids with a comfortable life. And yet often the kids only see the comfortable life and not how it was achieved. And so, they don’t pay attention to the need for saving. The result? I recently attended the wedding of a friend’s son who only lives for today and whose new wife is already spending him into a hole.

      And I am no exception to the rule. Years ago I was young and stupid. I lived in Los Angeles and had a girlfriend in San Francisco. I spent a ton talking to her long distance. Finally it clicked that I could save money and take a cheap flight to see her fairly often and still have money left over if I didn’t spend it on phone calls. And this was just a trivial example.

      Time value of money. A difficult concept for too many people.

      Reply
    197. 197.

      catclub

      March 21, 2024 at 11:56 am

      @Brachiator: To be fair, I know a number of people who have invested in rental property. People have their investment comfort zones, and stocks are not a comfort zone for many people.

       

      Not having to fix the renter’s toilet at 3am is my comfort zone.

      Mutual funds never make you do that.

      Reply
    198. 198.

      StringOnAStick

      March 21, 2024 at 11:57 am

      @Soprano2: Exactly true.

      Reply
    199. 199.

      Brachiator

      March 21, 2024 at 11:59 am

      @dnfree:

      The people who used the money for other things are probably the same people who don’t make enough to have 401(k)s, or whose employer doesn’t offer them.

      In my experience , this is not the case. There are too many people who refuse to save even when they can.

      Reply
    200. 200.

      StringOnAStick

      March 21, 2024 at 11:59 am

      @Sure Lurkalot: The stock market bust that started with the dotcom implosion is why Dubya was unable to force through SS privatization in his second term.  That big crash was too fresh in the collective memory.

      Reply
    201. 201.

      Brachiator

      March 21, 2024 at 12:02 pm

      @catclub:

      Not having to fix the renter’s toilet at 3am is my comfort zone. Mutual funds never make you do that.

      Exactamundo! I had this exact conversation with a friend a couple of weeks ago.

      Reply
    202. 202.

      Rusty

      March 21, 2024 at 12:06 pm

      @Brachiator: My recollection is roughly 40% received 90% or more of their income from social security.   For younger cohorts I wouldn’t be surprised to see that number go up with the disappearance of private pensions (and most public pensions are less generous for younger generations than older ones).  My strong feelings is that Social Security is guaranteed,  no matter what happens in your life, good luck or bad luck, smart decisions or poor ones.  There are plenty of other opportunities to play with your money and grow it or lose it.

      Reply
    203. 203.

      StringOnAStick

      March 21, 2024 at 12:09 pm

      @Brachiator: There’s also what the companies are offering to their employees as investment choices.  My late BIL worked for a large Midwest grocery/household chain (think Walmart, but smaller). He was great at saving and putting the max into his 401k and tried his hardest to get his friends there to do the same and all of them just blew it off.  When he changed jobs and we had to move his funds, I saw what his investment options had been: all very high load, mostly very actively managed funds that grossly underperformed the S&P 500 and charged an outrageous annual percentage to do so.  Some non name family of funds and even the index offerings were over double the load of a big group like Vanguard.  Getting the money transferred was also extremely difficult.  I’m sure some company functionary got seriously wined and dined, and possibly bribed because there was no way any of these choices were appropriate for blue collar retail workers.  It was worse than gross.  Makes sense to me that a scion of this family that started this company became an R rep, but didn’t survive his pro impeachment vote with the local voters.

      Reply
    204. 204.

      StringOnAStick

      March 21, 2024 at 12:10 pm

      @Rusty: Exactly right.

      Reply
    205. 205.

      Geminid

      March 21, 2024 at 12:20 pm

      @cain: Retired Shin Bet chief Ami Ayalon had a surprising suggestion at the end a long Haaretz opinion piece published in January:

         As part of a deal to release the hostages, we must release Marwan Barghouti.

      This is the case for two reasons. Both because the return of the hostages is the closest thing possible to “a picture of victory” in the current Gaza campaign, and because Marwan is the only Palestinian leader who can be elected and lead a united and legitimate Palestinian leadership toward a path of mutually agreed separation from Israel.

      Marwan Barghouti is serving three life terms in an Israeli prison for his role organizing the Second Intifada’s suicide bombing campaign in the early 2000s. I think Ayalon may have talked to Barghouti during his tenure as Shin Bet chief.

      Barghouti is unlikely to be released in the currently proposed hostage exchange, even if an agreement is reached. The present Israeli government will not want to, and Hamas may not want Barghouti freed because they still hope to lead the Palestinian cause and Barghouti’s Fatah is their chief rival. But a future Israeli government may take up Ayalon’s proposal.

      Ayalon’s long essay was very important I thought, and I’ll probably repeat it on a future thread. It’s worth looking up if you can get past Haaretz’s paywall. I copied it from the Twitter feed of Turkish journalist Ragip Soylu, who labeled it “must read.”

      Reply
    206. 206.

      lowtechcyclist

      March 21, 2024 at 12:20 pm

      @rusty: ​
       

      @lowtechcyclist: It ignores reality.

      I should have added a sarcasm tag – I thought it would be obvious given the particulars, but I guess not.

      Reply
    207. 207.

      pieceofpeace

      March 21, 2024 at 12:21 pm

      @Kay: Perchance this is what he wants to do, create more chaos.

      Reply
    208. 208.

      Cacti

      March 21, 2024 at 12:23 pm

      @topclimber:  Yep.

      Reply
    209. 209.

      planetjanet

      March 21, 2024 at 12:29 pm

      So our life expectancy in the US has decreased over the last few years (anyone heard of the pandemic?). Will the cretinous Republicans lower the retirement age?

      Reply
    210. 210.

      topclimber

      March 21, 2024 at 12:40 pm

      @Geminid: Barghouti’s release could be helpful in making a two-state solution work. But isn’t the problem that most Israeli Jews (vs. Arabs) don’t want it?

      Reply
    211. 211.

      catclub

      March 21, 2024 at 12:50 pm

      @StringOnAStick: I saw what his investment options had been: all very high load, mostly very actively managed funds that grossly underperformed the S&P 500 and charged an outrageous annual percentage to do so.

       

      Even with all that, if there is a significant match from the employer, you have to take the free money, then worry about fees later.

      Reply
    212. 212.

      catclub

      March 21, 2024 at 12:57 pm

      @sab: ETA Biblically Moses and crew spent forty years there. I have never believed that. I believe it just felt like forty years to them. A very harsh environment.

       

      OTOH, climate there could have changed substantially in 3000 years.

      OTOOH, ’40 years’ may be a term of art in the bible for a long time. And furthermore, because of the golden calf, all the people who originally left Egypt had to die off before reaching the Promised Land [except Aaron??]. So all the ones who were kids leaving Egypt. Which would take longer than 40 years.  This story is starting to have problems.

      Reply
    213. 213.

      Geminid

      March 21, 2024 at 12:58 pm

      @topclimber: That’s certainly a block right now. But Ayalon is a very experienced and clear-thinking man who knows Israelis well. He believes a two state solution (or “separation”) is possible and is the only viable path for Israel, so I do not discount the prospect.

      A lot of people in Israel’s national security establishment think similarly to Ayalon, including current War Cabinet Observer Gadi Eisenkot. Eisenkot’s party leader, Benny Gantz, probably does also, but he certainly won’t campaign on a two-state solution in the next election. But I don’t think Yitzhak Rabin did either when he won the Prime Minister post.

      But they’re gonna have to crawl before they walk, and the first move is ending this war under conditions that make a two-state solution possible later this decade.

      Reply
    214. 214.

      Geminid

      March 21, 2024 at 1:09 pm

      @sab: Well, Israel’s not going to let Gazans into its portion of the Sinai and Egypt has built the most elaborate barrier I’ve ever seen along its 8-mile border with Gaza, so I would conclude that Kushner is full of shit.

      Reply
    215. 215.

      Soprano2

      March 21, 2024 at 1:14 pm

      @Sure Lurkalot: This is true, but part of it is because sometimes people get greedy. I knew people who had to defer retirement for a few years because they had their deferred comp in highly aggressive funds in the late 90’s (even though they were within a year or two of retirement) so they lost a lot of it when the dot.com bubble burst in 2000. They thought the market could only go up, up, up. I agree that there is a lot of financial illiteracy in the population. I wish schools would require a course in financial literacy, but they already do so much I understand why they might not want to do that.

      Reply
    216. 216.

      Geminid

      March 21, 2024 at 1:20 pm

      @cain:

       

      @topclimber: This Economist editorial does not address post-war issues but it is a good appraisal of the current impasse I think.

      The title is,”At a moment if military might, Israel looks deeply vulnerable.”

      https://www.economist.com/leaders/2024/03/21/at-a-moment-of-military-might-israel-looks-deeply-vulnerable?utm=social-media.content.np&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=editorial_social&utm_content=discovery.content

      Economist articles are usually paywalled but this one does not seem to be. I found it on Israeli journalist Noga Tarnolpolsky’s Twiiter feed, which is good to check out if you mess with Twitter. She is very anti-Netanyahu.

      Reply
    217. 217.

      Jeffro

      March 21, 2024 at 1:27 pm

      @Geminid:I was sorry Sally Hudson gave up her House of Delegates seat to challenge state Senator Creigh Deeds. She could have run for Congress and still kept her seat because state and federal elections are staggered here. Hudson endorsed Abigail Spanberger for Governor so maybe she’ll get a job in the Spanberger administration.

      I was sorry to see Sally did that, too, and I can see her working for our next Gov.  ;)

      Reply
    218. 218.

      Brachiator

      March 21, 2024 at 2:08 pm

      @Soprano2:

      I wish schools would require a course in financial literacy, but they already do so much I understand why they might not want to do that.

      Accounting and budgeting for dummies. And I mean this in a good way. When I was in high school I was pretty dumb about financial matters. And my mother had been a math teacher. However, I did read the business section of the newspaper and tried to learn about the stock market.

      Reply
    219. 219.

      Ksmiami

      March 21, 2024 at 2:10 pm

      @StringOnAStick: meijer?

      Reply
    220. 220.

      Paul in KY

      March 21, 2024 at 2:12 pm

      @Dorothy A. Winsor: 66 years & 10 months for me, libtard!!!

      Reply
    221. 221.

      Paul in KY

      March 21, 2024 at 2:13 pm

      @catclub: Shouldn’t you?

      Reply
    222. 222.

      Paul in KY

      March 21, 2024 at 2:19 pm

      @Chief Oshkosh: Half the staff at my local Krogers is elderly (over 70) types. Very sad, IMO.

      Reply
    223. 223.

      Paul in KY

      March 21, 2024 at 2:20 pm

      @sab: She thought Jared’s money was marriage material.

      Reply
    224. 224.

      Paul in KY

      March 21, 2024 at 2:22 pm

      @Kay: I call them ‘Likud Israel’.

      Reply
    225. 225.

      Paul in KY

      March 21, 2024 at 2:23 pm

      @Kay: Only a complete dipshit would think POTUS ‘controls’ that evil asshole running another country.

      Reply
    226. 226.

      Paul in KY

      March 21, 2024 at 2:30 pm

      @Kay: Why the fuck do we need to tell them that? Shouldn’t they already know that? Anyone with any sense should know that. Israel (for better or worse) is an ‘ally’ of ours and has been for many years. We have defense treaties and such with them.

      If you think it would help, then I guess tell them what they should already know.

      Reply
    227. 227.

      Paul in KY

      March 21, 2024 at 2:47 pm

      @Geminid: Someone is going to have to convince the Palestinians that if they ever really, really, really want their state, they are going to have to ‘be good’ and resist provocations for a number of years to show the Israeli government and people that they can be allowed to have their state, because they are ONLY going to get their state, IF Israel allows it. That’s it. There is no ‘forcing’ Israel through some kind of military/violent process to part with their control.

      That’s what the Likudniks meant when they said the “Palestinians would have to become Finns”. None of those assholes think they can do it. Maybe Barghouti can convince them.

      Reply
    228. 228.

      rikyrah

      March 21, 2024 at 2:51 pm

      @Soprano2:

      I heard a program the other day where someone from some think tank was once again pushing the privatization thing, although she denied that’s what it was

       

       

       

      Kay has always been right. They are mad that there’s a pile of money that they can’t get their hands on.

      Reply
    229. 229.

      rikyrah

      March 21, 2024 at 2:54 pm

      @Caveatimperator:

      @catclub:

      Now, I think a Biden line should be “Do you want Trump in office when there is another pandemic?”

      I disagree. But, show as many videos of what was happening 4 years ago. Let the video of him and his incompetence, speak for itself.

      Reply
    230. 230.

      rikyrah

      March 21, 2024 at 2:57 pm

      @Kay:

       

      So..all the people protesting Biden about Gaza

       

      what say you..

      Reply
    231. 231.

      Bill Arnold

      March 21, 2024 at 2:57 pm

      @StringOnAStick:

      I had a running email argument with a young man at a trading desk about retirement, SS and Medicare; he was completely and utterly fine with old people dying in the street. He rather demanded it be that way.

      When I hear shit like that, it’s like “budget sniper rifles (“elk rifles”) are inexpensive, especially used ones, and a lot of old people know how to shoot a rifle and are on some beta blocker, which is (are) a prohibited performance enhancer for competitive shooters”.
      Or some variation on that theme.

      Reply
    232. 232.

      rikyrah

      March 21, 2024 at 2:58 pm

      @Mousebumples:

      He will find the bond through some illicit source.

      Reply
    233. 233.

      rikyrah

      March 21, 2024 at 3:03 pm

      @Kay:

       

      @sab:

      This is exactly what the opponents of this war say – that the plan is to “relocate” Palestinians and steal their property. There are people arguing that that’s a conspiracy theory too, but now Kushner opened his big mouth and they’re going bonkers, thinking they have been proven right. He is making everything worse.

       

      I always thought they were right. That Kushner was stupid enough to say it out loud…oh well.

      Reply
    234. 234.

      VFX Lurker

      March 21, 2024 at 3:10 pm

      @Kay: I know it’s a hard needle to thread! Welcome to coalition politics. We need every one of our voter groups. All of them. So even if ensuring we are even handed wasn’t the right thing to do (it is) it would be the politically necessary thing to do.

      I don’t see why Arab-American voters have to pick up the slack for the rest of us, especially white voters.

      We might be better off focusing on white women voters in Michigan. They may be more open to voting for Democrats in a post-Dobbs world.

      Reply
    235. 235.

      Geminid

      March 21, 2024 at 3:11 pm

      @Paul in KY: Barghouti, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, the UAE, Qatar, Bahrain. You know, people with a real stake in a peaceful region.

      I just saw a report of polling showing that support for a two-state solution has risen  among Gazans. But we’ll see how they feel once this war has been over a year. I wouldn’t be surprised if their attitudes change more quickly than those of Western observers.

      Reply
    236. 236.

      Paul in KY

      March 21, 2024 at 3:30 pm

      @Geminid: It sucks for the Palestinians (the ones who do want their own state, without IDF & Settler douchewads strutting around all the time), but that’s the hand they’ve been dealt and they need to play it like Likud thinks they can’t and get that damned state!

      Reply
    237. 237.

      Geminid

      March 21, 2024 at 3:56 pm

      @Paul in KY: You may have seen the reports, but the Saudis, UAE, Jordan and Egypt have adopted a common srategy for the aftermath of this war, and are more or less imposing it on the Palestinian Authority. The P.A. chose a new Prime Minister a couple weeks ago he pick4rd a cabinet of “technocrats” last week. The US seems to be on board and this may be what the US’s Security Council resolution tracks.

      There are reports that Shin Bet has recommended that Israel hand over security in Gaza to Fatah once Hamas is toppled from power. I expect that is what will happen because the IDF can’t secure the parts of Gaza it has cleared so far.

      But the Saudis and the other Arab countries want Hamas out of there and are leaning on them hard to surrender on terms. The Saudis floated a plan whereby the surviving Hamas leaders and fighters would be evacuated to Algeria, much as Arafat and the PLO took ships from Beirut to Tunis in 1982. The Saudis arranged that also.

      The attitude of Hamas military leader Sinwar is unclear. He is said to believe that Hamas is winning, and that Israel will kill enough more civilians to cause its allies to break with the “Zionist entity.” That may be why he is holding out on the hostage/ceasefire deal. CIA Director Burns, Mossad chief Barnea and the Egyptian intelligence chief will meet in Doha again soon and try to ram a deal through.

      Tomorrow is the second Friday of Ramadan, and if Sinwar can’t get a serious uprising going in the West Bank and Jerusalem this weekend he may throw in the towel. Sinwar seems ready to fight to the last Gazan, but I think someone will kill him if he doesn’t quit soon.

      Reply
    238. 238.

      TerryC

      March 21, 2024 at 5:11 pm

      @Soprano2: We have borrowed from our 40lks a couple of times. You can borrow up to $50k assuming you have $100k in the account, you must charge yourself a fair market interest rate and pay it back to yourself within 5 years. We have bought acreage in this way and assisted my son’s retail business with a loan through us this way.

      Reply
    239. 239.

      Paul in KY

      March 22, 2024 at 8:42 am

      @Geminid: As far as Sinwar’s strategery: Who fucking cares if they (those Arab nations) break with the ‘Zionist Entity’? That won’t do shit for the Palestinians. Israel got along fine when they all had no diplomatic relations with them, etc. etc.

      Hopefully (and this has to come from the Palestinians) they will see that Hamas will never get them their state and they will eliminate them themselves.

      Reply

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