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You are here: Home / Foreign Affairs / World Central Kitchen: Protect the Helpers

World Central Kitchen: Protect the Helpers

by Betty Cracker|  April 3, 20249:27 am| 237 Comments

This post is in: Foreign Affairs, Open Threads, War

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Chef José Andrés wrote a powerful guest opinion piece for the New York Times in response to the death of seven WCK aid workers in an IDF strike earlier this week. Here’s a gift link. Excerpts below:

In the worst conditions you can imagine — after hurricanes, earthquakes, bombs and gunfire — the best of humanity shows up. Not once or twice but always.

The seven people killed on a World Central Kitchen mission in Gaza on Monday were the best of humanity. They are not faceless or nameless. They are not generic aid workers or collateral damage in war…

From Day 1, we have fed Israelis as well as Palestinians. Across Israel, we have served more than 1.75 million hot meals. We have fed families displaced by Hezbollah rockets in the north. We have fed grieving families from the south. We delivered meals to the hospitals where hostages were reunited with their families. We have called consistently, repeatedly and passionately for the release of all the hostages…

We know Israelis. Israelis, in their heart of hearts, know that food is not a weapon of war.

Israel is better than the way this war is being waged. It is better than blocking food and medicine to civilians. It is better than killing aid workers who had coordinated their movements with the Israel Defense Forces.

The Israeli government needs to open more land routes for food and medicine today. It needs to stop killing civilians and aid workers today. It needs to start the long journey to peace today.

In the worst conditions, after the worst terrorist attack in its history, it’s time for the best of Israel to show up…

Like the humanitarian he is, the chef acknowledges the immense suffering on all sides — the Palestinian civilians in Gaza, the hostages still being held there and the victims and survivors of Hamas atrocities. The worst currently have free rein. I sure hope the best figure out how to show up.

Open thread.

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    237Comments

    1. 1.

      Janus Daniels

      April 3, 2024 at 9:32 am

      This is Israel. We are what we choose. Israelis have a choice. Israel is not better that this.
      Some Israelis are better, but not enough.

      Reply
    2. 2.

      leeleeFL

      April 3, 2024 at 9:32 am

      Benjamin Netanyahu has been putting supporters of Israel in untenable positions to far too long.  He needs to be removed from power and replaced by people who want peace and security for both sides.  The same is true of Mahmoud Abbas.  They have failed their people, and those of us who support a safe, mutuallly secure Israel and Palestine must say so.

      Reply
    3. 3.

      cain

      April 3, 2024 at 9:33 am

      Israel shamed themselves with killing those aid workers. From accounts described they did so maliciously. Bibi has to go. Like the U.S., they took an event that had given them world wide support and turned it into something that burned their reputation with the international community for years to come. What we did in Iraq should shame us Americans – what Israel has been doing with Gaza should shame every Israeli with their actions.

      They are being painted into a corner. That doesn’t let Hamas off the hook. Those assholes need a reckoning and removed from civic responsibilities of the Palestinian people. The fact that they fucking charging their own people for the food we are distributing for free is a war crime and they should be tried in absentia at the hague or at a UN court.

      Reply
    4. 4.

      bbleh

      April 3, 2024 at 9:33 am

      It appears that even Bibi has realized this was a major fk-up, and I hope it continues to fk things up for him.  I don’t think it was a mistake in terms of the IDF’s general approach — this is what they’ve been doing day and night and not making much secret of it — but it’s clear they underestimated the blowback. I just hope it’s enough to tip the scales further at the WH.

      Off-topic: this is great fun.  I Don-Bombed Sedona with a Trump cardboard cutout   (Gift link) https://wapo.st/3VKq2ea

      Reply
    5. 5.

      New Deal democrat

      April 3, 2024 at 9:34 am

      Two comments:

      I think Chef Andres’ operations approach the level of sainthood in US public opinion. With the information that it appears the convoy was deliberately targeted, with three strikes to make sure the workers were killed, I suspect this is going to have a significant impact in how US opinion views Israel’s Gaza operation.

      Secondly, it has gotten almost zero attention in the US, but several days ago Israel bombed an Iranian consulate in Syria. Not some terrorist hideout, not some alllied paramilitary operation, but an actual diplomatic mission. That’s an Act of War, plain and simple.

      Maybe Israel has some inside information that leads it to believe that Iran won’t respond, but this certainly risks a big escalation in the war.

      Reply
    6. 6.

      Dorothy A. Winsor

      April 3, 2024 at 9:36 am

      Chef Andres is more gracious than anyone had a right to expect. But then, that’s who he is.

      Reply
    7. 7.

      cain

      April 3, 2024 at 9:38 am

      @New Deal democrat:

      Secondly, it has gotten almost zero attention in the US, but several days ago Israel bombed an Iranian consulate in Syria. Not some terrorist hideout, not some alllied paramilitary operation, but an actual diplomatic mission. That’s an Act of War, plain and simple.

      It seems Bibi plans to stay in power by getting Israel into war with its neighbors. You can bet that SA is happy with their rival getting into it with Israel.

      The whole middle east is one big flaming area of passion as hot as the climate.

      Reply
    8. 8.

      MrRoivas

      April 3, 2024 at 9:40 am

      Every single place I’ve read over where Israelis gather to chat is filled with dismay, shame and anger over this unfathomable act. The most generous of interpretations still requires a criminal level of stupidity and warped judgement.

      May those responsible be brought to justice. It won’t bring back those killed.

      Words fail to express the heaviness in my heart whenever I think about this.

      Reply
    9. 9.

      Soprano2

      April 3, 2024 at 9:42 am

      It’s as if Israel is actively trying to get the whole world to turn against them. When I heard the story this morning that all three cars were fired on, I thought “so the story that it was an accident is bullshit”. It wasn’t an “accident”, they did it deliberately because they thought there was one member of Hamas in the cars. Also, they said this happened in Egypt, so then I also knew it wasn’t an accident. This also makes me think another reason they did it was to get all the aid workers to pull out, so that Gazans will starve to death. It seems that Bibi and those who support him are in favor of ethnically cleansing Gaza with any means necessary.

      Biden should use this incident to denounce them and say we aren’t giving them any more aid, period. They should not use our money to murder aid workers.

      Reply
    10. 10.

      bbleh

      April 3, 2024 at 9:42 am

      @cain: concur.  He’s fighting for his political life — and to avoid potential imprisonment — and he’s happy to take the country down with him.  And at least so far he’s got a big chunk of the population solidly behind him.

      Sounds familiar …

      Reply
    11. 11.

      Caveatimperator

      April 3, 2024 at 9:43 am

      @cain:

      It’s also interesting that as the current war has progressed, there’s been a shift in the political winds among liberal Israel supporters in the US. A few weeks ago, Chuck Schumer called for a new government. Schumer! He’s been staunchly pro-Israel since forever! If you’ve lost him, something has gone very wrong.

      And a lot of the hardliners (both in Israel and outside it) take this shift not as a sign that they’ve crossed a line, but as a sign that people outside the country are being brainwashed. Don’t get me wrong, a lot of anti-Israel sentiment is full of conspiracy theories and pseudohistory, but there’s also so much that is well grounded in facts.

      Reply
    12. 12.

      MattF

      April 3, 2024 at 9:48 am

      And yes, everyone should contribute to WCK. I contribute, and I like getting the occasional email from them.

      Reply
    13. 13.

      PeaceisPossible

      April 3, 2024 at 9:50 am

      Israel’s defense minister has said what Israel is doing wouldn’t be possible without US complicity.

      The Biden administration funds and whitewashes Israel’s massacres, ethnic cleansing and genocide, and you wholeheartedly cheerlead and will vote for him. You cheerlead Biden, who has rejected three permanent ceasefire proposals.

      Look within at what this does to your soul.

      Can you forgive yourself? I’ll try to forgive you.

      Reply
    14. 14.

      cain

      April 3, 2024 at 9:51 am

      @MrRoivas:

      Someone is going to be thrown under the bus for this and it isn’t going to be Bibi.

      Reply
    15. 15.

      satby

      April 3, 2024 at 9:53 am

      Chef Andres already deserves the Nobel Peace Prize, but if he helps to topple Netanyahu (and his powerful advocacy may) the entire world will owe him a huge debt of gratitude.

      Reply
    16. 16.

      John S.

      April 3, 2024 at 9:53 am

      @Caveatimperator:

      Meanwhile, antisemitism is on the rise — fueled in part by what Israel is doing. But good luck trying to explain to conservative Jews that hate cannot be stopped by violence. Lord knows I have tried.

      Reply
    17. 17.

      Citizen_X

      April 3, 2024 at 9:54 am

      It’s hard for the best to show up, if they keep getting murdered when they do.

      Bibi, Putin, and Trump are all desperate to stay or get back in power, willing to kill however many people it takes to protect their position. I wish I had a clear idea how to stop them.

      Reply
    18. 18.

      Warblewarble

      April 3, 2024 at 9:55 am

      In the face of the evidence of three deliberate strikes to kill the aid workers. We are still seeing efforts to grant immunity to the Israelis as has been granted to them for countless other killings. This is not as we are being told “defending Israel” it is part of calculated policy to starve and drive Palestinians from their land .

      Reply
    19. 19.

      Lyrebird

      April 3, 2024 at 9:57 am

      @MrRoivas: Agreed.  Thank you for your comment.  I don’t have words… but I managed to help my students talk about the war yesterday in a way that left them all feeling heard, I think.

      Thank you Betty C for bearing witness in such a principled way.

      J Street doesn’t yet have a new update, but their January call for a stop to the bombings is still pretty spot on, and I think I will call my congressperson again to remind him about this proposal to recognize a demilitarized Palestinian state now, not later.

      Jay said in a comment last night that Canada has cancelled arms sales to Israel.  I don’t know with our current defense agreements whether the US can do that, but I sure hope some officials are busy figuring out how.

      Reply
    20. 20.

      MomSense

      April 3, 2024 at 9:59 am

      Chef Andres is truly a person of peace and deserving of the Novel Peace Prize. I hope that Israelis and Palestinians listen to him and choose peace and leaders who will make it a reality.

      Reply
    21. 21.

      PeaceisPossible

      April 3, 2024 at 10:01 am

      @Citizen_X: Isn’t the more immediate question, “How do we stop Biden from funding Israel’s crimes?”

      If you don’t care about how Biden is enabling these massacres, then we have to conclude your concern is faked and partisan.

      Reply
    22. 22.

      rikyrah

      April 3, 2024 at 10:08 am

      This was a deliberate act.

      Nobody will convince me otherwise.🤬🤬

      Reply
    23. 23.

      Betty Cracker

      April 3, 2024 at 10:08 am

      @PeaceisPossible: I don’t “cheerlead” Biden’s handling of this crisis and neither need nor want your “forgiveness.”

      Reply
    24. 24.

      Another Scott

      April 3, 2024 at 10:08 am

      Chef José Andrés walks the talk and is a wonderful human being.

      Ultimately, we are who we pretend to be. Or, in other words, how we act matters much more than how we think or how we talk. I say that as someone who is moved by stirring words as much (or maybe more) than others. But it’s actions that ultimately matter.

      If the IDF and Israel’s governments act like fascists, then we should believe our own lying eyes and adjust our policies taking that into account.

      Peace and comfort to the innocents.

      Grr…,
      Scott.

      Reply
    25. 25.

      The Thin Black Duke

      April 3, 2024 at 10:09 am

      and partisan.

      Troll.

      Reply
    26. 26.

      cain

      April 3, 2024 at 10:09 am

      @John S.: Let’s face it – those people will find any excuse to hate Jews. Israel is certainly providing cover for their hate but they are gonna keep hating regardless. Antisemitism a mental disease of which there seems to absolutely no rational reason to hate them.

      Reply
    27. 27.

      SiubhanDuinne

      April 3, 2024 at 10:13 am

      @The Thin Black Duke:

      Yup. Wasn’t anticipating having to haul out the ol’ pie filter this early. New troll, do you think, or old troll with a new nym?

      Reply
    28. 28.

      A Ghost to Most

      April 3, 2024 at 10:13 am

      Just another ugly episode in the Holy Wars.

      Reply
    29. 29.

      Timill

      April 3, 2024 at 10:14 am

      Mmmm – patisserie…

      Reply
    30. 30.

      PeaceisPossible

      April 3, 2024 at 10:15 am

      @Betty Cracker: If you can claim that a president who funds genocide is a good man, then you are his cheerleader.

      Imagine if a German in the ’30s claimed Hitler was a good man, despite his actions on “this one issue.”

      Reply
    31. 31.

      MattF

      April 3, 2024 at 10:17 am

      @SiubhanDuinne: Done.

      Reply
    32. 32.

      Another Scott

      April 3, 2024 at 10:17 am

      @Lyrebird: It may take an act of Congress to stop sales.

      I don’t doubt, though I haven’t checked, that the President and the DoD have quite a bit of discretion on when things are actually delivered or transferred.  E.g. There were Lockheed C-130s parked in Marietta, GA for years that had been purchased by the Shah of Iran but weren’t delivered after the revolution.

      “Sorry, Bibi, we’re having trouble finding available ships and planes to get those things over to you.  We’re working on it.  Don’t call us, we’ll call you…”

      Grr…,
      Scott.

      Reply
    33. 33.

      PeaceisPossible

      April 3, 2024 at 10:18 am

      @The Thin Black Duke: Is it being a troll to point out that partisanship is leading us all down a terrible moral path?

      To point out that principles are worthless unless they are applied universally?

      Reply
    34. 34.

      Another Scott

      April 3, 2024 at 10:18 am

      @PeaceisPossible: Biden doesn’t fund Israel’s weapons.  Congress does.

      HTH.

      Cheers,
      Scott.

      Reply
    35. 35.

      The Thin Black Duke

      April 3, 2024 at 10:18 am

      Here come the cliches. Don’t these guys have new material?

      Reply
    36. 36.

      topclimber

      April 3, 2024 at 10:18 am

      Has the US joined the EU in pointing out how Israel has to date shown no evidence for its claims that the UNRWA had many members who actively supported the Oct. 7 atrocity?

      “Janez Lenarcic, the head of humanitarian aid and crisis management at the European Commission, said that neither he nor – according to his knowledge – anybody else at the EU executive, or any other UNRWA donor had been presented with evidence by Israel.” This was as of 3/14.

      This charge charge led to many countries suspending aid to UNRWA, US included. Now the GOP clowns want to make the cutoff last at least a year. Because no evidence is needed when Bibi speaks.

      Reply
    37. 37.

      The Thin Black Duke

      April 3, 2024 at 10:21 am

      @PeaceisPossible: partisanship

      You keep using that word but I don’t think you know what it means.

      Reply
    38. 38.

      lowtechcyclist

      April 3, 2024 at 10:24 am

      @Soprano2:

      Biden should use this incident to denounce them and say we aren’t giving them any more aid, period. They should not use our money to murder aid workers.

      This.

      And in general, I just don’t see why we’re providing money and weaponry to Israel at all. Even before the last six months, we were just enabling Israel to be a bad actor, blockading Gaza and making sure “settlers” take over more and more of the West Bank while pushing the Palestinians into smaller and more disjointed fractions of the West Bank.  And doing what they could to sabotage our deal with Iran to remain without nuclear weapons.

      They are not a friend of the U.S., and they’re a dubious ally at best.  Fuck this special relationship with them; it’s time to treat them like any other nation.

      Reply
    39. 39.

      HinTN

      April 3, 2024 at 10:25 am

      @Betty Cracker: This!

      Reply
    40. 40.

      coin operated

      April 3, 2024 at 10:26 am

      @lowtechcyclist:

      They are not a friend of the U.S., and they’re a dubious ally at best.  Fuck this special relationship with them; it’s time to treat them like any other nation.

      THIS.  100%

      Reply
    41. 41.

      topclimber

      April 3, 2024 at 10:27 am

      @lowtechcyclist: We should continue to denounce those who imperil Israel. Bibi has been top of that list for some time.

      Reply
    42. 42.

      Omnes Omnibus

      April 3, 2024 at 10:27 am

      Apropos of nothing in particular, good people can be wrong.

      Reply
    43. 43.

      PeaceisPossible

      April 3, 2024 at 10:27 am

      @Another Scott: You’re misinformed – Biden is all in on weapons to Israel: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/01/flow-of-arms-from-us-to-israel-continues-despite-ceasefire-abstention

      Reply
    44. 44.

      Gin & Tonic

      April 3, 2024 at 10:29 am

      @PeaceisPossible: I am trying to recall your comments here about the attempted genocide of Ukrainians, and coming up empty. Perhaps you have a link?

      Reply
    45. 45.

      kindness

      April 3, 2024 at 10:29 am

      @PeaceisPossible: Buddy….. blaming Joe Biden for Bibi/Likud’s evil isn’t covering you with the glory you hope for.  It’s more like you’ve taken a dump in your own dinner bowl and expect to be congradulated.  Trump is way worse.

      Reply
    46. 46.

      Another Scott

      April 3, 2024 at 10:29 am

      @PeaceisPossible: Your link doesn’t contradict what I said.

      Congress appropriates funds.  It is illegal for the President not to spend the money Congress appropriates.  If you want Congress to spend money differently, you need to get them to change the appropriations.  Good luck with that.

      Have a nice day.

      Cheers,
      Scott.

      Reply
    47. 47.

      Formerly disgruntled in Oregon

      April 3, 2024 at 10:30 am

      @PeaceisPossible: Your bad faith attack on us is barely worthy of a response. If you’re not a troll, maybe you shouldn’t act like one.

      Reply
    48. 48.

      OzarkHillbilly

      April 3, 2024 at 10:31 am

      Yeah, checking out. I have better things to do with my day. Hope y’all find as successful a way to ignore the latest pain in the ass as I have.

      Reply
    49. 49.

      Kay

      April 3, 2024 at 10:32 am

      @topclimber:

      According to Adam’s post last night, no food aid is getting in at all.

      There will be mass starvation shortly.
      My fear is that Biden actually DOES recognize how horrible this situation has become and is now trying to get a broader deal done, because if he doesn’t the US will have absolutely no moral ground left. He has to keep Israel on board for a broader deal, which means more suffering for Palestinians. I feel helpless watching this – like he’s committing political suicide.

      Reply
    50. 50.

      Paul in KY

      April 3, 2024 at 10:36 am

      @bbleh: Hamas sure helped him by getting a ‘big portion of population with him’.

      But that’s what Likud Israel has always used Hamas for…

      Reply
    51. 51.

      topclimber

      April 3, 2024 at 10:36 am

      @Another Scott: Biden could declare that conditions have changed since the bill was passed and that arms would destabilize a bad situation, and/or that the current Israeli regime is not in compliance with aid restrictions and likely never will be.

      I also think there is a way for Congress to overrule his decision, but it needs a veto-proof vote. Peace is possible; this is not.

      Reply
    52. 52.

      Soprano2

      April 3, 2024 at 10:38 am

      @lowtechcyclist: At this point I think it’s easy to make the argument that with this attack, we can see that the current Israeli government and Bibi in particular are completely out of control. Deliberately targeting an aid convoy because you think there might be one Hamas fighter in one of the cars is gross and disgusting. They are blinded by their blood-red rage if they think that is in any way justified.

      Reply
    53. 53.

      Betty Cracker

      April 3, 2024 at 10:40 am

      @PeaceisPossible: I think Biden is a good president, despite my deep misgivings about how he’s handling the Israel-Hamas issue. My opinion of him as a person is irrelevant and therefore not something I go on about here. That you didn’t know this suggests maybe you should spend more time reading than hurling accusations at strangers whose actual opinions are unknown to you.

      Reply
    54. 54.

      catclub

      April 3, 2024 at 10:41 am

      @lowtechcyclist: ​
       

      They are not a friend of the U.S., and they’re a dubious ally at best. Fuck this special relationship with them; it’s time to treat them like any other nation.

      Yes. The (surviving) crew of the USSLiberty would agree.

      Reply
    55. 55.

      cain

      April 3, 2024 at 10:41 am

      @Soprano2:

      @lowtechcyclist: At this point I think it’s easy to make the argument that with this attack, we can see that the current Israeli government and Bibi in particular are completely out of control. Deliberately targeting an aid convoy because you think there might be one Hamas fighter in one of the cars is gross and disgusting. They are blinded by their blood-red rage if they think that is in any way justified.

      What they are saying is that killing a Hamas fighter is worth the lives of non-combatants even if they had in prior worked with the IDF. All it takes is innuendo and rumor and they’ll strike.

      Reply
    56. 56.

      Omnes Omnibus

      April 3, 2024 at 10:42 am

      @cain: Echoes of the Cheney 1% Doctrine.

      Reply
    57. 57.

      Paul in KY

      April 3, 2024 at 10:43 am

      @PeaceisPossible: And I’m so so so sure that TFG would be ever so much betterer than Pres. Biden.

      Thanks for your forgiveness, though. I feel so much better

      Edit: I just noticed you said ‘try’. Hah! Forgive or forgive not. There is no ‘try’, asshole.

      Reply
    58. 58.

      PeaceisPossible

      April 3, 2024 at 10:43 am

      @Kay: This is correct. He is commiting political suicide.

      If readers here want Biden to defeat Trump, I’d recommend writing, calling and protesting Biden’s actions in Gaza.

      Where we differ is, I am fairly certain Biden is a true believer in doing anything Israel wants. Just judging by his actions after six months, he won’t stop funding this.

      Reply
    59. 59.

      hueyplong

      April 3, 2024 at 10:44 am

      Looks like we have new friends.

      Pie is the breakfast of champions.

      Reply
    60. 60.

      Layer8Problem

      April 3, 2024 at 10:46 am

      Helpful pot-stirrers never seen before stop by to express their deep thoughts.  Maybe some are lurkers jumping in to express their shallow view of what’s really wrong based on five minutes of close study, maybe some are paid wedge-drivers, whether from rich Republican- or Russian-funded boiler rooms is immaterial. Lots of innocent people regardless of affiliation are dying in bad ways caused by bad actors, folks, but Biden’s still President, and there’s money to be made or contradictions to heighten!

      Reply
    61. 61.

      Ksmiami

      April 3, 2024 at 10:46 am

      @Soprano2: yep. It actually gives Biden breathing room to stop military aid until Bibi is gone and the two State solution is the plan

      Reply
    62. 62.

      PeaceisPossible

      April 3, 2024 at 10:47 am

      @Betty Cracker: I apologize for hurling accusations.

      We disagree on the quality of the Biden presidency, but I don’t know you and don’t judge you!

      Reply
    63. 63.

      Layer8Problem

      April 3, 2024 at 10:51 am

      @Omnes Omnibus:  Good people can be ill informed, shallow, easily led, eminently griftable, unreflective, . . . .

      “The common clay of the New West.”

      Reply
    64. 64.

      PeaceisPossible

      April 3, 2024 at 10:51 am

      @Paul in KY: Who said anything about Trump? I’m talking about the current president using his considerable leverage to influence foreign policy.

      Reply
    65. 65.

      lowtechcyclist

      April 3, 2024 at 10:51 am

      @topclimber:

      We should continue to denounce those who imperil Israel. Bibi has been top of that list for some time.

      True that.

      What really pisses me off about Israel’s behavior is that the Middle East has become a much safer place for Israel during my lifetime.  Most Arab nations have either normalized relations with Israel, or are moving in that direction.  It’s nothing like what it was in 1967 or 1973.  Yet Israel still acts like it needs the West Bank as a defensive buffer against…whom? Jordan? Right.

      Israel’s meaningful foes aren’t nations but rather terrorist orgs like Hamas and Hezbollah.  You can’t attack organizations like that with an army; the best way to fight them is to undercut their reason for existence, by giving people less reason to want to revenge themselves on Israel, and more ability to have decent lives and be left alone.

      But it doesn’t seem that Israel’s done much to move in that direction in recent decades, whether Bibi’s been in power or not.

      Reply
    66. 66.

      lowtechcyclist

      April 3, 2024 at 10:52 am

      @OzarkHillbilly:

      Hope y’all find as successful a way to ignore the latest pain in the ass as I have.

      Pastry is good. :-)

      Reply
    67. 67.

      japa21

      April 3, 2024 at 10:53 am

      @PeaceisPossible: One quick question. I don’t consider you a troll, BTW.  I think you are sincere.  Regarding your nym, it is rather obvious that if the US stopped sending any aid to Israel, nothing would really change on the ground, so what and how is peace possible?

      Reply
    68. 68.

      Geminid

      April 3, 2024 at 10:54 am

      @New Deal democrat: The Damsscus bombing has gotten plenty of attention on news sites all over the Mideast, and from Western foreign affairs sites. Iran’s Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Khameini, says Israel will be punished for the crime, but it’s unclear wnen and how.

      I read a Twitter account titled “Patarames” from time to time. It’s by an Iranian military tech analyst who mainly talks up the capabilities of Iran’s new weaponry.

      He gets into strategic issues also, and his take on the bombing was interesting. He was damping expectations of a major retalition from Iran. Some commenters were saying that if Iran did not act decisively Israel was gonna roll up the “Axis of Resistance” in Syria and Lebanon, but Patames argued “no, the Axis of Resistance is strong, we’re in this for the long haul, and the IGRC can reply to this bombing in its own time.” I don’t know how much if any this guy reflects regime opinion, but he sometimes seems to know what he’s talking about.

      However, with Israel poised to invade southern Lebanon, this war can easily get bigger and Iran and Syria could still jump in despite a lot of pressure not too.

      Reply
    69. 69.

      Layer8Problem

      April 3, 2024 at 10:54 am

      “Who said anything about Trump?”

      Yes, who is this Trump fellow anyway? People seem concerned about him.

      Reply
    70. 70.

      JPL

      April 3, 2024 at 10:55 am

      @lowtechcyclist: Bibi is trying to stay out of jail, and if that means starving the people of Gaza so be it.

      I’m not alone in thinking that the strike was intentional.  The purpose being to keep aid out of the country.   I’m sickened by the action of Bibi and his cronies.

      Reply
    71. 71.

      geg6

      April 3, 2024 at 10:55 am

      That’s it for me with regard to Israel.  I’m done with them.  Biden should cancel any and all aid, AFIAC.  They have become what they fled.

      Reply
    72. 72.

      geg6

      April 3, 2024 at 10:58 am

      @PeaceisPossible:

      Fuck off.  You think Trump will be better?  You’re an idiot.

      Reply
    73. 73.

      Ksmiami

      April 3, 2024 at 10:58 am

      @catclub: yep. Time to make it clear that we are the dominant one in this

      Reply
    74. 74.

      Formerly disgruntled in Oregon

      April 3, 2024 at 10:59 am

      @PeaceisPossible: Do you want Biden to beat Trump? Or is it just “readers here” who want that?

      Reply
    75. 75.

      Ksmiami

      April 3, 2024 at 10:59 am

      @geg6: I just wrote the White House. Suggest everyone here do the same.

      Reply
    76. 76.

      Citizen Alan

      April 3, 2024 at 11:01 am

      @lowtechcyclist: We’re providing aid To Israel without consideration of israel’s actions because they are basically 2 political entities that share power in this country. And one of them is completely under the sway of an apocalyptic death cult that sees Israel as ground zero for Armageddon. And the death cult party is supported by a hostile media that will betray any attempt to hold back Israel as being objectively pro hamas.

      Reply
    77. 77.

      geg6

      April 3, 2024 at 11:01 am

      @PeaceisPossible:

      Okay, you’re a troll.  Fuck off even harder.

      Reply
    78. 78.

      Formerly disgruntled in Oregon

      April 3, 2024 at 11:01 am

      @PeaceisPossible:

      How it started:

      Can you forgive yourself? I’ll try to forgive you.

      How it’s going:

      I don’t know you and don’t judge you!

      Reply
    79. 79.

      caphilldcne

      April 3, 2024 at 11:03 am

      @PeaceisPossible: please do not forgive me because I will never forgive you when the US goes fascist. You can get out of here with your utter bullshit. It’s so stupid it makes me think you are a Russian troll come to dos this divisiveness.

      Reply
    80. 80.

      Ksmiami

      April 3, 2024 at 11:04 am

      @PeaceisPossible: oh ffs. He’s not committing genocide. Bibi has to go. I have faith in this administration to do the right things.

      Reply
    81. 81.

      Ksmiami

      April 3, 2024 at 11:04 am

      @geg6: ditto

      Reply
    82. 82.

      chopper

      April 3, 2024 at 11:05 am

      @PeaceisPossible:

       

      i’d try to forgive you for your blatant attempts to get trump, a guy who’s a million times worse on gaza than any democrat, elected. but i just can’t.

      Reply
    83. 83.

      WaterGirl

      April 3, 2024 at 11:06 am

      Please don’t feed the bears.

      Jan 6 Hearing – Day 4 on Tuesday at 1 pm Eastern (LIVE)

      Reply
    84. 84.

      geg6

      April 3, 2024 at 11:06 am

      @Ksmiami:

      Already done!

      Reply
    85. 85.

      chopper

      April 3, 2024 at 11:09 am

      @Another Scott:

       

      the last time a president deliberately withheld congressional aid to another country he was impeached

      Reply
    86. 86.

      Formerly disgruntled in Oregon

      April 3, 2024 at 11:10 am

      Thank you to everyone in this thread that is engaging in good faith criticism of the Israeli govt’s heinous actions and misguided response to the despicable attacks by Hamas in October 2023, and are critiquing the US’ response, which is slowly improving but needs to decisively change in response to this latest atrocity.

      …all without coming off as a holier than thou anti-Biden axe-grinder. Well done, all!

      Reply
    87. 87.

      Manyakitty

      April 3, 2024 at 11:10 am

      @leeleeFL: this, all day every day.

      Reply
    88. 88.

      Layer8Problem

      April 3, 2024 at 11:10 am

      @WaterGirl:  There’s nothing as cute as a catcake.  Unless it’s a pupcake or a goosecake.

      Reply
    89. 89.

      Ksmiami

      April 3, 2024 at 11:11 am

      @geg6: brownies all around. This White House is responsive

      Reply
    90. 90.

      PeaceisPossible

      April 3, 2024 at 11:13 am

      @japa21: Thanks! I’m not!

      In response to your question, IDF Maj General Yitzhak Brick was quoted as saying, “All of our missiles, the ammunition, our precision guided bombs, all the airplanes and bombs, it’s all from the US.  The minute they turn off the tap, you can’t keep fighting. Everyone understands that we can’t fight this war without the United States. Period.”

      The rest of the world sees it this way, as well.

      So yes, peace is possible if we turn off the tap and demand a permanent ceasefire & negotiations.

      Reply
    91. 91.

      Layer8Problem

      April 3, 2024 at 11:13 am

      @Formerly disgruntled in Oregon:  Succinctly put!  I’m signing on to this.

      Reply
    92. 92.

      Paul in KY

      April 3, 2024 at 11:17 am

      @PeaceisPossible: Joe Biden is a fine and caring man. He is in a terrible job where you have to make decisions every day that would have you wetting your bed.

      Reply
    93. 93.

      debit

      April 3, 2024 at 11:17 am

      @PeaceisPossible: Ok, here we go.  Biden = Hitler.  Welcome to pie town.

      Reply
    94. 94.

      PeaceisPossible

      April 3, 2024 at 11:17 am

      @chopper: Again, what have I said about Trump? Trump is not the current president.

      I only believe US citizens should demand that Biden not fund a genocide.

      Is that controversial?

      Reply
    95. 95.

      caphilldcne

      April 3, 2024 at 11:19 am

      Can someone explain how to use the pie filter on an iPhone? I’m not seeing how and I’ve never used it before.

      I nominate, “Can you forgive yourself? I’ll try to forgive you,” for a rotating header. Just the right amount of cloying sanctimony mixed with the smell of troll to give me a good laugh.

      Reply
    96. 96.

      Omnes Omnibus

      April 3, 2024 at 11:20 am

      @PeaceisPossible: Let’s say that your astonishment at the mention of Trump comes off as more than a bit disingenuous.  Okay?

      Reply
    97. 97.

      PeaceisPossible

      April 3, 2024 at 11:21 am

      @Paul in KY: The decision to arm a foreign country that is attacking and starving defenseless & trapped people is not a good one.

      This isn’t a hard decision. If Trump did this, you wouldn’t apologize for him and claim that his critics are “bed-wetters”.

      Reply
    98. 98.

      Baud

      April 3, 2024 at 11:21 am

      For those interested in the full context of the quote at #90.

      (November 27, 2023 / JNS)

       

      The time has come to discuss the Biden administration’s relationship with Israel. With each passing day, two things become obvious. First, Israel cannot fight the war without U.S. resupply of the Israel Defense Forces. As a consequence, Israel is beholden to the administration’s directives. And second, if Israel follows the Biden administration’s directives, it will lose the war.

       

      Israel’s dependence on the United States was stated bluntly by retired IDF Maj. General Yitzhak Brick in an interview earlier this week.

       

      “All of our missiles, the ammunition, the precision-guided bombs, all the airplanes and bombs, it’s all from the U.S. The minute they turn off the tap, you can’t keep fighting. You have no capability. … Everyone understands that we can’t fight this war without the United States. Period.”

       

      Brick went on to explain that President Joe Biden’s demand that Israel permit “humanitarian aid” to enter Gaza means that he is demanding that Israel keep Hamas fully supplied with food, water and fuel.

       

      His demand that Israel minimize Palestinian civilian casualties endangers IDF soldiers and renders the expansion of the ground offensive into central and southern Gaza, where the bulk of Hamas’s force is now located, almost impossible to carry out. Brick suggested various forms of long-term tunnel warfare and other suggestions for how the IDF may be able to defeat Hamas over time while operating within the constraints that Biden and his top advisors are dictating.

      Reply
    99. 99.

      p.a.

      April 3, 2024 at 11:21 am

      We (the US) don’t know if cutting off military aid to Israel will change anything because we’ve never fucking tried.  At least not since France, Britain, and Israel tried to take the Suez Canal (US political action, not a military embargo, ended the attempt.)

      Reply
    100. 100.

      Paul in KY

      April 3, 2024 at 11:22 am

      @The Thin Black Duke: Good answer! I was thinking ‘partisanship!?!?!?!’. Would have been good to get old Jim Mora to answer that one!

      Reply
    101. 101.

      PeaceisPossible

      April 3, 2024 at 11:22 am

      @Omnes Omnibus: You folks are literally the only people bringing up Trump. I’m talking about the sitting president and his foreign policy in Gaza. That’s it!

      I don’t blame you for wanting to change the subject.

      Reply
    102. 102.

      SW

      April 3, 2024 at 11:22 am

      We are hardly in a position to cast the first stone but what we should have learned from 9/11-Iraq is that in the wake of an atrocity, a nation is particularly vulnerable to having their shock, anger and grief hijacked by amoral political operatives and put in the service of settling old scores and behaving in a manner repugnant to civilized people.

      Reply
    103. 103.

      MattF

      April 3, 2024 at 11:24 am

      @caphilldcne: Open the comments for some post, the pie icon is visible at the top of the comments section.

      Reply
    104. 104.

      japa21

      April 3, 2024 at 11:24 am

      @PeaceisPossible: Interesting that you believe that statement.  Personally, I see that statement as a way to turn people against Biden and to get Trump elected.  We know Israel is strongly in favor of Trump winning office.

      Also, in terms of peace being possible, what about Hamas?  Are you also writing on Iranian blogs to tell them to have the Ayatollah stop funding and arming Hamas and other extremist groups?  Do you believe Israel has no right to self defense and that they should be totally disarmed?

      Depending on your response, I may reconsider my original statement about trolls.

      Reply
    105. 105.

      brendancalling

      April 3, 2024 at 11:26 am

      “We know Israelis. Israelis, in their heart of hearts, know that food is not a weapon of war.

      Israel is better than the way this war is being waged. It is better than blocking food and medicine to civilians. It is better than killing aid workers who had coordinated their movements with the Israel Defense Forces.”

      This is an awful lot like the emails and calls I maker to parents of my worst students. We call it a “positive sandwich.” In other words, we couch the bad news about their poorly behaved, uninterested, foul-mouthed, lazy, violent children with some good news first—kind of the spoonful of sugar to make the medicine go down. “We both know Roger can do better—I’ve seen him do better so many times. I’d appreciate if you’d have a talk with him about punching other students in the face while screaming ‘pendejo’ and ‘maricon’ and threatening to shoot them if they see them after school. Thanks so much!”

      I am quite sure that “Israelis, in their heart of hearts, know that food is not a weapon of war.” Of course they know this. Do they care? Not so sure about that. Just like little Roger knows that it’s not OK to beat up his classmates. By the same token, Roger is better than being a violent sociopath, but he is affirmatively making the choice to be one when he beats up his classmates. Same with the Israelis, who are “better than killing aid workers who had coordinated their movements with the Israel Defense Forces.” They just don’t care to BE better.

      So it goes. Poo-tee-weet.

      Reply
    106. 106.

      caphilldcne

      April 3, 2024 at 11:26 am

      I think the new troll is Steve Bannon. Where do I go to collect my $5 in Trump dollar bills?

      Reply
    107. 107.

      japa21

      April 3, 2024 at 11:26 am

      @SW: ​
        Which is exactly what Biden warned about.

      Reply
    108. 108.

      Citizen_X

      April 3, 2024 at 11:27 am

      @PeaceisPossible: Changing the subject? Getting Trump back into power is your job, tovarisch. Earn those rubles!

      Reply
    109. 109.

      caphilldcne

      April 3, 2024 at 11:29 am

      @MattF: thank you, Matt. Wow. It really works. The new troll is gone with all responses (including my own – serves me right). Also, I literally have scrolled past the filter every day and not realized that’s how to use it.

      Reply
    110. 110.

      Manyakitty

      April 3, 2024 at 11:30 am

      @The Thin Black Duke: I find myself enjoying extra pastry in these posts lately. I never pied anyone for years and I’m about to bump my list up to 3.

      Reply
    111. 111.

      Paul in KY

      April 3, 2024 at 11:30 am

      @PeaceisPossible: It’s either Pres. Biden or TFG and the deluge. Those are your only choices. I stand with Pres. Biden!

      Reply
    112. 112.

      Baud

      April 3, 2024 at 11:30 am

      @caphilldcne:

      FYI. It’s per devise. The filter won’t be active if you switch to a computer.

      Reply
    113. 113.

      Another Scott

      April 3, 2024 at 11:31 am

      @topclimber:

      Your comment gives me an excuse to do some checking. Here’s some background I found.

      1. ObamaWhiteHouse.archives.gov:

      From 2016.

      FACT SHEET: Memorandum of Understanding Reached with Israel

      Under President Obama’s leadership, the multifaceted cooperation between the United States and Israel has reached unprecedented levels. This is particularly true with regard to the security of Israel. The new 10-year security assistance Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) to Israel is the most recent reflection of President Obama’s unshakeable commitment to Israel’s security.

      That expires at the end of FY 2028.

      2. Text of the MOU (4 page .pdf image – 3 pages of the agreement, 1 page with Bibi’s letter and signature.)

      Both the United States and Israel jointly commit to respect the FMF levels specified in this MOU, and not to seek changes to the FMF levels for the duration of this understanding.

      This stuff is complicated. The agreement says there will be no change in funding levels for 10 years (except if both sides agree “in exceptional circumstances” that additional missile defense funding is needed in a “major armed conflict involving Israel”. I’m sure there are other rules that can be invoked to delay funding from the US, but there would likely be additional consequences that we don’t like in doing so. (There are always checks and balances, but consequences.) There is no magic wand that Biden can wave to somehow stop it without consequences. There are constraints.
      The biggest constraint (page 3) is that Congress appropriates the agreed funds.

      tl;dr – there is never One Weird Trick.

      Thanks.

      Cheers,
      Scott.

      Reply
    114. 114.

      Formerly disgruntled in Oregon

      April 3, 2024 at 11:31 am

      @PeaceisPossible: You were trashing us for supporting Biden.

      Here in the US, it’s an election year. Trump is Biden’s opponent in the General Election this November. Perhaps you have heard about this. The stakes are rather high.

      Reply
    115. 115.

      Manyakitty

      April 3, 2024 at 11:32 am

      @SiubhanDuinne: so many tasty and adorable treats

      Reply
    116. 116.

      Formerly disgruntled in Oregon

      April 3, 2024 at 11:32 am

      @SW: President Biden urged Israel not to make the same mistakes the US did.

      Reply
    117. 117.

      Layer8Problem

      April 3, 2024 at 11:32 am

      @Layer8Problem:   Dang, forgot the sea lions.  Please include the sea lion cake and the sea lion chow in the the cute list.

      Reply
    118. 118.

      TBone

      April 3, 2024 at 11:33 am

      The journey of a thousand miles is begun with the first step.  On that path, I celebrate every single win.  Punching Nazis is fun.  Buh bye, fascist!

      https://crooksandliars.com/2024/04/voters-oust-nazi-their-city-council-enid

      White supremacy lost in Oklahoma tonight. Voters in Enid, by a nearly 20-point margin, voted to remove City Council member and city commissioner, Judd Blevins over his ties to white nationalist groups.

      Reply
    119. 119.

      Baud

      April 3, 2024 at 11:33 am

      @TBone:

      Especially in Oklahoma.

      Reply
    120. 120.

      caphilldcne

      April 3, 2024 at 11:34 am

      @Baud: good to know. Thank you.

      Reply
    121. 121.

      Paul in KY

      April 3, 2024 at 11:34 am

      @lowtechcyclist: Ha ha ha!  Ever since Likud Israel has been in power, the focus is on making sure there is never a credible reason for a ‘real’ Palestinian State. Usually, the Palestinians (through PLO, Hamas, whatever) have helped them out. Reduction in tensions between Israel and other nation states has actually helped this ‘vision’ out, as there are no credible adversaries who would demand a Palestinian State to cease combat hostilities.

      Reply
    122. 122.

      TBone

      April 3, 2024 at 11:35 am

      @Baud: 👍

      Reply
    123. 123.

      Layer8Problem

      April 3, 2024 at 11:36 am

      @Baud, @caphilldcne:  And I think if you clear your cookies on a device, either all of the cookies or just balloon-juice.com cookies, all your pied names are unpied so clear carefully.

      Reply
    124. 124.

      PeaceisPossible

      April 3, 2024 at 11:38 am

      @Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: US election campaigns last at least two years. During that time, every partisan always says “now is not the time for criticism. We’ve got to get behind our candidate.”

      I’m only saying that now—when we are doing nothing to stop a six-months-and-counting genocide—is the time to criticize Biden.

      Use your leverage as a voter!

      We supposedly live in a democracy – if that’s the case, the president would theoretically be forced to listen to you.

      Reply
    125. 125.

      Warblewarble

      April 3, 2024 at 11:38 am

      It is not an anti Biden stance to believe current US policy arming Israeli expanionism is wrong and needs to change. Anti semetism is grievously wrong, throwing around unfounded smokescreen charges is a tactic much used by Israels proxies. Look closely at any factual basis. Knee jerks only muddy the waters.

      Reply
    126. 126.

      UncleEbeneezer

      April 3, 2024 at 11:40 am

      I encourage everyone here to have a yummy “Peace” of pie this morning.

      Reply
    127. 127.

      TBone

      April 3, 2024 at 11:40 am

      My hero Sheldon Whitehouse says:

      I’m glad it looks like Ukraine aid will move. I’m glad my REPO bill is part of the package. I don’t mind a loan if the president can waive it. But it’s just plain gross that Republicans need extraneous tribute for their fossil fuel donors. Yuck.

      Xitter link is too much for me today so here is a website link to it instead:

      https://susiemadrak.com/2024/04/03/everything-is-a-mess/

      Reply
    128. 128.

      Paul in KY

      April 3, 2024 at 11:41 am

      @PeaceisPossible: Gen. Brick is lying. dippo. Israel makes jet fighters, tanks, fine assault rifles, ammo and many other things.

      Reply
    129. 129.

      Baud

      April 3, 2024 at 11:42 am

      @TBone:

      What happened? That’s big news of Ukraine aid will move. That’s the last big thing we need out of the GOP house.

      Reply
    130. 130.

      Paul in KY

      April 3, 2024 at 11:43 am

      @Omnes Omnibus: That should be “m’kay” (to get maximum points), but well played, sir.

      Reply
    131. 131.

      TBone

      April 3, 2024 at 11:43 am

      @Baud:

      https://www.politico.com/newsletters/morning-money/2024/04/01/the-russia-clash-to-watch-00149910

      Reply
    132. 132.

      Baud

      April 3, 2024 at 11:43 am

      @Paul in KY:

      See my #98. It was a quote to pressure Biden not to insist on humanitarian considerations.

      Reply
    133. 133.

      Baud

      April 3, 2024 at 11:44 am

      @TBone:

      Ah, thanks. Good, but not the big aid package.

      Reply
    134. 134.

      chopper

      April 3, 2024 at 11:44 am

      @PeaceisPossible:

       

      when you say “you wholeheartedly cheerlead and will vote for him…Look within at what this does to your soul” it seems like you’re talking about the fucking election, doesn’t it?

      come on, son, don’t go hiding behind “i didn’t actually say the word trump” now.

      Reply
    135. 135.

      Matt McIrvin

      April 3, 2024 at 11:45 am

      @SW: I’m tempted to say that we should shun any country that has just been the victim of a large terrorist attack– but of course *that* would create a huge new incentive for more terrorist attacks.

      Reply
    136. 136.

      geg6

      April 3, 2024 at 11:45 am

      @PeaceisPossible: ​
       
      You’ve got the target wrong. Biden doesn’t fund anything. Congress does. Talk to them.

      Your Hitler = Biden bullshit is not in good faith. And I don’t give a shit if you forgive me or not. You mean literally nothing to my life.

      Reply
    137. 137.

      topclimber

      April 3, 2024 at 11:46 am

      @Another Scott: I don’t think any memo or anything short of a treaty binds a future Congress or President.

      I disagree with your categorization of one weird trick, but even accepting it, just the announcement of a possible pause in aid might convince the world that Biden is serious about not involving the US in Bibi’s latest genocide.

      Reply
    138. 138.

      chopper

      April 3, 2024 at 11:46 am

      @Formerly disgruntled in Oregon:

      he’s trashing us for *voting* for biden. it’ll tarnish our souls! and yet he’s not at all talking about the election, nosiree

      Reply
    139. 139.

      Baud

      April 3, 2024 at 11:47 am

      @Matt McIrvin:

      Even Europe? What about Ukraine – is it technically not terrorism because the Russian state is the main actor?

      Reply
    140. 140.

      PeaceisPossible

      April 3, 2024 at 11:47 am

      @Paul in KY: Yeah, everyone who threatens your rosy view of US foreign policy under Biden is lying.

      It’s easy to believe you’re in the right when you can dismiss contradictory evidence so easily.

      Reply
    141. 141.

      Paul in KY

      April 3, 2024 at 11:47 am

      @PeaceisPossible: Pres. Biden doesn’t fund it, dingo.  Congress (currently composed of 50% flaming, Likud-supporting, ‘Christian’, Jeebus-is-coming-as-soon-as-we-can-get-a-nuclear-war-in-the-Middle-East loons) funds it.

      Reply
    142. 142.

      Paul in KY

      April 3, 2024 at 11:51 am

      @Baud: If you can’t kill those low-life, ill-trained, like-to-kill-ravers when they are fully hydrated & fed, then what the hell kind of professional military do you have?!?!?

      Reply
    143. 143.

      geg6

      April 3, 2024 at 11:51 am

      @japa21: ​
       
      I find it interesting that there is no mention of Russia targeting civilians in Ukraine. No moral outrage for that, I guess. No talking to Russians about getting rid of Putin due to his actual war against a sovreign country and it’s citizens. Peace is possible there, too. But no sympathy for Ukraine is forthcoming from our new and very condescending commenter.

      Reply
    144. 144.

      a thousand flouncing lurkers (was fidelio)

      April 3, 2024 at 11:51 am

      @caphilldcne: Tap on the pie at the top of the comment section & the list of posters appears. You know what to do next.

      Reply
    145. 145.

      PeaceisPossible

      April 3, 2024 at 11:52 am

      @chopper: Cheerleading and voting for a president who funds mass murder and famine is awful for the soul – it’s true.

      That doesn’t mean voting for Trump is good for the soul.

      Reply
    146. 146.

      gwangung

      April 3, 2024 at 11:53 am

      @PeaceisPossible: I judge you as not being very good at this.

      Reply
    147. 147.

      Matt McIrvin

      April 3, 2024 at 11:54 am

      @geg6: Israel is killing way *more* civilians in Gaza than Russia has managed to do in Ukraine, but that’s mostly because Ukraine has more capability to defend itself, not for lack of trying.

      Reply
    148. 148.

      PeaceisPossible

      April 3, 2024 at 11:54 am

      @Paul in KY: Are you under the impression that a bipartisan majority (both Democrats and Republicans) don’t support this?

      Are you under the impression that Biden, a self-proclaimed Zionist whose state department has rejected three permanent ceasefire proposals, doesn’t support this?

      You are mistaken.

      Reply
    149. 149.

      geg6

      April 3, 2024 at 11:56 am

      @PeaceisPossible: ​
       
      Hahahahahahahahaha! You’re new to the US, aren’t you? But at this point, I don’t think you are in the US. How’s the weather in Russia?

      Reply
    150. 150.

      chopper

      April 3, 2024 at 11:57 am

      @PeaceisPossible:

      on israel, biden is better than any president in the last 30 years.

      on israel, trump is worse than any president since israel was founded.

      that’s the choice. that’s it. it’s a simple one. and my soul’s doing just fuckin’ fine, thanks

      Reply
    151. 151.

      Paul in KY

      April 3, 2024 at 11:57 am

      @TBone: Yay! Great news! Death to Fascism!

      Reply
    152. 152.

      rikyrah

      April 3, 2024 at 11:58 am

      @TBone:

      No Ukraine Aid. No Israel Aid.

      That’s how I see it.

      Get Ukraine their Aid, and I’ll grit my teeth thinking about the aid going to Israel.

      Reply
    153. 153.

      UncleEbeneezer

      April 3, 2024 at 11:59 am

      @Manyakitty: It’s a great feature.  And I have never regretted using it.  I’m considering moving some generally good commenters onto my list until after the election, for the sake of my own focus and sanity.

      Reply
    154. 154.

      Paul in KY

      April 3, 2024 at 11:59 am

      @PeaceisPossible: You do agree that Pres. Trump would be much, much worse for Palestinians and would support Netanyahu unreservedly. Correct?

      Reply
    155. 155.

      Soprano2

      April 3, 2024 at 12:01 pm

      @Another Scott: I think he could stop it temporarily though on the grounds that Israel is not using the aid in the way they are supposed to. He could do that and dare Congress to do something about it. I think they would make a lot of noise but not actually do anything. He could say that we will provide the aid eventually, but not now based on the fact that Israel has demonstrated that they will attack non-combatants based on a rumor.

      Reply
    156. 156.

      japa21

      April 3, 2024 at 12:02 pm

      @PeaceisPossible: And I have now changed my opinion about you being a troll. You are not interested in peace, otherwise you would have answered my previous question.

      Reply
    157. 157.

      PeaceisPossible

      April 3, 2024 at 12:02 pm

      @geg6: Yay, McCarthyism is cool now!

      You change the subject and rely on ad hominem because you hate that the subject reflects poorly on you and on Biden.

      Reply
    158. 158.

      Manyakitty

      April 3, 2024 at 12:03 pm

      @UncleEbeneezer: same, same.

      Reply
    159. 159.

      PeaceisPossible

      April 3, 2024 at 12:07 pm

      @Paul in KY: No one cares what I think. Why would it matter to anyone whether I think Biden or Trump is “better”?

      All I want is for Democrats to demand basic things from Democratic leaders.

      If that message gets through, mission accomplished. If not, life goes on & it’s a beautiful day.

      Reply
    160. 160.

      Baud

      April 3, 2024 at 12:08 pm

      @geg6:

      How’s the weather in Russia?

       
      Could be Israeli. If Bibi can get Trrump elected, he’s home free.

      Reply
    161. 161.

      Paul in KY

      April 3, 2024 at 12:10 pm

      @Baud: I see.  Thanks for the expanded quote. He was still lying, IMO.

      Reply
    162. 162.

      Ksmiami

      April 3, 2024 at 12:11 pm

      @PeaceisPossible: let me guess- you’re a white guy who’s totally unaware of the stakes for marginalized groups in the 2024 election. Go away.

      Reply
    163. 163.

      Baud

      April 3, 2024 at 12:11 pm

      @Paul in KY:

      Right. But the context explains why his was lying.

      Reply
    164. 164.

      Matt McIrvin

      April 3, 2024 at 12:12 pm

      @UncleEbeneezer: I pie many people, I’ve been pied by many people, it’s fine. The only thing that annoys me about it is an exploitable bug I’ve mentioned before, which I don’t think has been patched (could be wrong).

      Reply
    165. 165.

      Paul in KY

      April 3, 2024 at 12:12 pm

      @PeaceisPossible: Look it up. Google ‘Israeli made weapons’, choad.

      Reply
    166. 166.

      Soprano2

      April 3, 2024 at 12:13 pm

      @brendancalling: I go back to the interview I heard on NPR with an Israeli woman who was asked how she felt about a crying 10-year-old boy in Gaza whose parents had been killed by the Israelis. She said all she saw was a future Hamas terrorist who could come and kill her, her family and her neighbors. I think that’s how a lot of Israelis feel about the people in Gaza right now, so it’s not as easy for the Israeli government to stop the war as we might think it is. What would the reaction of the American public have been if George W. had said, six months after 9-11, that we were going to pull out of Afghanistan and stop all the war? That’s why I think Biden needs to use this as a way to say “no more aid”, because he can’t stop the Israeli government from waging this war but he can at least temporarily stop us from giving them the money and weapons to wage it.

      Reply
    167. 167.

      JWR

      April 3, 2024 at 12:14 pm

      @Layer8Problem:

      Dang, forgot the sea lions.

      Not sure why, (nudge nudge), but I’ve been thinking about sea lions all thread long. ;)

      Reply
    168. 168.

      UncleEbeneezer

      April 3, 2024 at 12:14 pm

      Jack Smith’s response to Cannon’s ridiculous request:  Nice court you got here?  It’d be a shame if I had to file a Mandamus request to the 11th Circuit (to have the case reassigned) because your order is completely wrong on the legal merits and would jeopardize the trial!

      Reply
    169. 169.

      geg6

      April 3, 2024 at 12:15 pm

      @PeaceisPossible:

      LOL!  You’re a terrible troll.  I don’t care how you think anything reflects on me and my conscience is just fine.

      You are here to disrupt, create chaos and try to tamp down any support for the best president of my lifetime.  That’s Russian troll work.  If you’re not a Russian troll, then stop acting like one.   And the day I choose my president based on support for Palestinians would be never.  There are no good actors in Israel/Palestine.  They all suck and I wish they’d all kill each other and leave the rest of us alone.  Since that won’t happen any time soon, I’ll stick with Biden.  He’s done the most for the majority of Americans, who are my most important concern.  But you be you.  Do svidaniya!

      Reply
    170. 170.

      Wapiti

      April 3, 2024 at 12:17 pm

      @lowtechcyclist: I just don’t see why we’re providing money and weaponry to Israel at all.

      I think any treaty “alliance” is from the Camp David peace accords, where we provide aid to Israel and Egypt to maintain the peace on that border. (Egypt is the largest neighbor to Israel, and the only to ever have any military success, so it was a reasonable attempt by Carter to defuse the periodic wars in the region.)

      Reply
    171. 171.

      UncleEbeneezer

      April 3, 2024 at 12:18 pm

      @Matt McIrvin: How so?  Not as in: please share the steps so we all (and resident trolls) know how to do it.  More like: what is the bad result/threat of the exploitation/bug?

      Reply
    172. 172.

      Soprano2

      April 3, 2024 at 12:18 pm

      @TBone: We had a good school board election here, too. The only book banner who won is the one who was already on the board – the other two book banners lost. I was terrified that one of them would win, because if they had the school board would have been controlled by people who think the biggest issue with our schools is that teachers can’t paddle students, some teachers have “safe space” sticker in their rooms, and that there are some bad books in our libraries.

      Reply
    173. 173.

      PeaceisPossible

      April 3, 2024 at 12:19 pm

      @Baud: Is it your opinion that Israel is following “Biden’s directives”? If they aren’t, what is Biden doing about it?

      The context surrounding the quote doesn’t diminish the meaning of the quote. We have yet to even try turning off the tap after six months.

      Why haven’t we done that?

      Reply
    174. 174.

      TBone

      April 3, 2024 at 12:23 pm

      @Soprano2: yay! 😊

      Reply
    175. 175.

      Delk

      April 3, 2024 at 12:24 pm

      🎶 he got 50,000 watts in a big acoustic tower🎶

      Reply
    176. 176.

      brendancalling

      April 3, 2024 at 12:24 pm

      @PeaceisPossible: You’re not very smart are you, comrade?

      Reply
    177. 177.

      PeaceisPossible

      April 3, 2024 at 12:25 pm

      @Ksmiami: Marginalized groups like the people in Gaza or the West Bank?

      My opinions shouldn’t be controversial:

      1. Demand that Biden stop arming Israel

      2. Demand a permanent ceasefire

      3. Demand negotiations

      Use your leverage as a voter in a supposed democracy. That’s it.

      Reply
    178. 178.

      Ksmiami

      April 3, 2024 at 12:25 pm

      @geg6: yes yes yes!

      Reply
    179. 179.

      Kelly

      April 3, 2024 at 12:26 pm

      this is the first time i’ve used the pie filter

      Reply
    180. 180.

      brendancalling

      April 3, 2024 at 12:27 pm

      @Soprano2: “I go back to the interview I heard on NPR with an Israeli woman who was asked how she felt about a crying 10-year-old boy in Gaza whose parents had been killed by the Israelis. She said all she saw was a future Hamas terrorist who could come and kill her, her family and her neighbors.”

      He may well becme a Hamas terrorist because Israelis killed his parents. Funny how that works,

      Reply
    181. 181.

      PeaceisPossible

      April 3, 2024 at 12:27 pm

      @brendancalling: Maybe I’m not as smart as you, but I have a heart and I know how to use it.

      Someday your thinking may change.

      Reply
    182. 182.

      Ksmiami

      April 3, 2024 at 12:28 pm

      @PeaceisPossible: tell it to Hamas then. Remember them? I’m focused on getting Biden Re-elected to do good in this country. The I/P issue will not be resolved in my lifetime, but restoring Roe and evening the playing field here can be. Btw, if you could get off your myopic Trojan horse, you’d see that yes we all are steering Biden towards a more humane policy. But it’s just one of many issues

      Reply
    183. 183.

      TBone

      April 3, 2024 at 12:28 pm

      @rikyrah: I’m celebrating every single inch of ground that might make a difference right now or, at least, soon.  Freezing and seizing assets should be a no brainer IMO but since we have Rick Grenell running a roughshod shadow foreign policy all over the planet for fat bastard and that means it’s actually doing the bidding of Pooty, it’s something we should all get behind immediately. Like finally getting to Rump, HIT ‘EM IN THE WALLET WHERE IT REALLY HURTS.

      Reply
    184. 184.

      brendancalling

      April 3, 2024 at 12:33 pm

      @PeaceisPossible: LOL,
      спасибо, товарищ Spasibo, tovaris

      Also, who gives a shit what you think? You’re just a troll, kindly fuck off.

      Oh wait—i can filter you out. До свидания, товарищ

      Reply
    185. 185.

      Matt McIrvin

      April 3, 2024 at 12:34 pm

      @UncleEbeneezer: There’s a way you can change your nym so that you not only evade the pie filter,  but make it apparently impossible to pie you again (and if you do it between comments in the same thread, it’s impossible to pie all of your comments).

      Reply
    186. 186.

      brendancalling

      April 3, 2024 at 12:39 pm

      the pie filter isn’t appearing on my laptop. anyone have a link? got a troll to remove.

      Reply
    187. 187.

      Baud

      April 3, 2024 at 12:40 pm

      @brendancalling:

      Click on the pie icon directly underneath the post.

      Reply
    188. 188.

      Matt McIrvin

      April 3, 2024 at 12:42 pm

      (And the general fix for the bug is: the filter itself, and the list of people you haven’t pied yet, MUST use exactly the same criteria for matching names, whatever those may be)

      Reply
    189. 189.

      Paul in KY

      April 3, 2024 at 12:44 pm

      @Soprano2: That sounds like a good & doable idea (based on overview above of the treaty we signed several years ago). We can also do what Scott said and just slow walk everything.

      Reply
    190. 190.

      Betty Cracker

      April 3, 2024 at 12:45 pm

      @UncleEbeneezer:

      I’m considering moving some generally good commenters onto my list until after the election, for the sake of my own focus and sanity.

      I don’t use the pie filter here, but I muted a ton of generally good commenters on Twitter during the 2020 primary for that reason.

      Reply
    191. 191.

      Kelly

      April 3, 2024 at 12:45 pm

      Fall of 1975, my second year at university, I took a poli sci class on the Middle East. For the first time I met and listened to a few Arabs. The situation was so much more complicated than than my rural Oregon friends and family thought based on the common news sources at the time. I’d also recently become aware of festive lynchings in the USA and how ordinary Germans pitched in for the Holocaust. I finished the course fearing that long term, Israel’s task of despotic rule of Palestinians would lead to cruelty. I didn’t know how it would go or how long it would take. You cannot be a benign despot for very long.

      Reply
    192. 192.

      Paul in KY

      April 3, 2024 at 12:45 pm

      @PeaceisPossible: Oh, I do. I care so much. So please humour me and answer my question.

      Reply
    193. 193.

      Ksmiami

      April 3, 2024 at 12:47 pm

      @PeaceisPossible: in case I’m not clear, fuck off.

      Reply
    194. 194.

      Ha Nguyen

      April 3, 2024 at 12:51 pm

      During the Figure Skating World championships, I found myself unable to watch the skaters from Israel.  I kept thinking that if ISU banned Russia from sporting events due to the Russia-Ukraine war, they should also ban Israel as well.

      Reply
    195. 195.

      Paul in KY

      April 3, 2024 at 12:57 pm

      @Soprano2: 6 months after 9-11, we were heading towards Iraq.

      I see your point, though. IMO, the onus (cause Israel has what they want) has always been on the Palestinians to ‘behave’ and act civilized enough for Israel not to be able to deny them their state. Likud knows this oh so well and has ensured these ‘burn it all downers’ like Hamas and their ilk have enough power to continue stepping on Palestine’s dick.

      It can only change when the Palestinians finally realize how they’ve been played by the Likudnicks and finally call their bluff.

      Reply
    196. 196.

      Another Scott

      April 3, 2024 at 12:57 pm

      RollCall.com:

      In early February, nearly 20 Senate Democrats, led by Sen. Chris Van Hollen of Maryland, were ready to back an amendment to a national security emergency spending bill that would require all offensive weapons paid for by the measure to comply with U.S. law, international humanitarian law, and the law of armed conflict.

      The Biden administration issued an executive branch memorandum backing that policy, part of a last-minute compromise that staved off a floor fight at the time that could highlight a rift between Israel and one of the two major political parties of its most important foreign ally, weapons supplier and diplomatic protector.

      The situation on the ground in Gaza has grown much worse for Palestinian civilians in the nearly two months since that Senate vote on the national security supplemental.

      While it remains unclear what will happen to the Senate-passed supplemental in the House, Democrats in both chambers could seek to revisit the provisions related to funding for Israel in light of the worsening humanitarian situation in Gaza.

      If House Speaker Mike Johnson, R-La., decides to bring the measure up under suspension of the rules, there might be enough votes to clear the bill without reopening for changes to the Israel and Palestinian-related provisions.

      The Senate-passed version totaling $95.3 billion includes $5.2 billion for Israeli missile defense systems and $4.4 billion in transfer authority to replace U.S. weapons provided to Israel in its war against Hamas as well as $9.2 billion in refugee and humanitarian assistance for the Palestinians and other vulnerable populations.

      (Emphasis added.)

      This is the Supplemental that the Senate passed with 70 votes and Johnson has been sitting on.

      Sen. Christopher S. Murphy, D-Conn., who heads the Foreign Relations Middle East subcommittee and is a foreign aid appropriator, said his message to Israeli leaders is not that their relationship with the Democratic Party is at stake if they don’t start allowing massive quantities of food into Gaza to mitigate the imminent famine there. Rather, it’s that there will be consequences for Israel’s alliance structure all over the world if widespread civilian death due to starvation occurs.

      “I don’t particularly view this moment through a partisan lens. I know that’s a very popular way to think about it here,” Murphy said last month. “I’m thinking about the thousands of children who are going to starve. I don’t really care about the impacts on Israel’s relationship with political parties in the United States. I care about whether we are going to end up with tens of thousands of dead children in the next 60 days.”

      A potential invasion of Rafah area of Gaza would add to this. Unidentified U.S. officials have also told news outlets that an Israeli military invasion of Rafah, which President Joe Biden has said is his “red line,” would likely result in a loss of U.S. diplomatic cover for Israel in the United Nations and restrictions for the first time on how Israel can use weapons that it receives from the U.S. in Gaza.

      (Emphasis added.)

      Maybe Biden hasn’t done enough, but he’s done a lot to try to get Bibi to change course, and to try keep Hezbollah and Iran and others from making everything much, much worse.

      As I said downstairs, Israel is on thin ice and the ice is getting thinner. (IMO).

      Grr…,
      Scott.

      Reply
    197. 197.

      Kosh III

      April 3, 2024 at 1:01 pm

      ” it is part of calculated policy to starve and drive Palestinians from their land.”  The Zionist plan has always been to drive out the people of Palestine and replace them with Jews because Jews need lebensraum.
      Israel will be serious about peace when it diligently works to comply with UN Resolution 242.

      Reply
    198. 198.

      PeaceisPossible

      April 3, 2024 at 1:03 pm

      @Another Scott:

      NYT Headline

      White House Denies Biden Has Set “Red Lines” for Israel-Hamas War in Gaza:

      https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/12/world/middleeast/biden-netanyahu-israel-gaza-red-lines.html

      Reply
    199. 199.

      A Good Woman

      April 3, 2024 at 1:04 pm

      I support Israel, I oppose Netanyahu & his RWNJ peers.

      I support Palestinians, I oppose Hamas.

      From all I have read it seems to me there are many moving parts and many bloody hands.

      In this instance we are talking about bloody Israeli hands and whether Biden has done enough to stop the bloodshed.

      You must keep in mind that the Israeli & Hamas leadership are mirrors of each other. Neither is willing to give up political power. Neither is particularly concerned about the welfare of the Gazans.  There can be no permanent ceasefire unless BOTH parties are willing to stop shooting and lay down their arms.  Negotiations happen now, but are conducted through proxies.  Neither side is interested in a 2 state solution.  Biden may be able to cut off Israel’s supply of armaments that enables them to fight this war, but I seriously doubt the bloodshed will end. A ceasefire will likely be temporary & one-sided. There is no requirement, or incentive, for Hamas to free the hostages immediately with no pre-conditions.

      As a moral matter I think Israel needs to be cut off from US aid.  As a practical matter I think very little good will come of it in the long term.  Biden is stuck with this issue and I agree he should act rather than continue the jawboning.  But let’s be realistic in our expectations regarding outcomes.

      Reply
    200. 200.

      Paul in KY

      April 3, 2024 at 1:04 pm

      @Ha Nguyen: I think the Russians cheat more than the Israelis. That’s why Russia was banned. Not from their aggressive war on The Ukraine, but because they are a bunch of roided up cheaters.

      Reply
    201. 201.

      Mai Naem mobile

      April 3, 2024 at 1:09 pm

      Bibi and his RW likudniks are deliberately winding stuff up so that there’s a major international anti- American incident which will negatively affect support for Biden’s relelection. Ukraine not getting aid would just be the cherry on top for Putin and Xi. On top of everything else, I can’t believe Taiwan got hit with a bad earthquake yesterday.

      Reply
    202. 202.

      lowtechcyclist

      April 3, 2024 at 1:18 pm

      @Another Scott:

      There is no magic wand that Biden can wave to somehow stop it without consequences. There are constraints.

      Shrub and Dump each unilaterally withdrew us from treaties. Treaties have to be passed by Congress to become treaties.  Yet they were able to pull us out of those treaties without Congress’ consent. (It’s never made sense to me that they could do that, but that’s what happened.)

      So it boggles my mind considerably that Biden couldn’t do the same to a Memorandum of Understanding that’s (at this end) entirely the creation of the Executive Branch.

      Reply
    203. 203.

      Jackie

      April 3, 2024 at 1:21 pm

      Why is anyone engaging with a sea lion? Waste of time and energy.

      Reply
    204. 204.

      Manyakitty

      April 3, 2024 at 1:24 pm

      @Jackie: it’s why we have a pie filter.

      Reply
    205. 205.

      Betsy

      April 3, 2024 at 1:39 pm

      @PeaceisPossible: Sounds like you’d like a good, big slice of PIE 🥧

      Reply
    206. 206.

      lowtechcyclist

      April 3, 2024 at 1:42 pm

      @Manyakitty:  it’s why we have a pie filter.

      Cookies and cheesecakes and tortes, oh my! ;-)

      Reply
    207. 207.

      Jay

      April 3, 2024 at 1:45 pm

      This link was in Adam’s Ukraine War thread last night.

      https://www.972mag.com/mass-assassination-factory-israel-calculated-bombing-gaza/

      ‘A mass assassination factory’: Inside Israel’s calculated bombing of Gaza

      Permissive airstrikes on non-military targets and the use of an artificial intelligence system have enabled the Israeli army to carry out its deadliest war on Gaza, a +972 and Local Call investigation reveals.

      The Israeli army’s expanded authorization for bombing non-military targets, the loosening of constraints regarding expected civilian casualties, and the use of an artificial intelligence system to generate more potential targets than ever before, appear to have contributed to the destructive nature of the initial stages of Israel’s current war on the Gaza Strip, an investigation by +972 Magazine and Local Call reveals. These factors, as described by current and former Israeli intelligence members, have likely played a role in producing what has been one of the deadliest military campaigns against Palestinians since the Nakba of 1948.

      Well worth reading.

      Reply
    208. 208.

      brendancalling

      April 3, 2024 at 1:51 pm

      and just like that Poopispoopable is gone. Thanks!

      Reply
    209. 209.

      WaterGirl

      April 3, 2024 at 2:00 pm

      @UncleEbeneezer: Send me an email.

      Reply
    210. 210.

      cain

      April 3, 2024 at 2:02 pm

      @Paul in KY:

      Also, if a country feels that vulnerable – no way they would have a single supply chain for military supplies. They would try to be self reliant as possible.

      Reply
    211. 211.

      Manyakitty

      April 3, 2024 at 2:05 pm

      @lowtechcyclist: so adorable and delicious 😋

      Reply
    212. 212.

      cain

      April 3, 2024 at 2:07 pm

      @Ksmiami:

      @PeaceisPossible: let me guess- you’re a white guy who’s totally unaware of the stakes for marginalized groups in the 2024 election. Go away.

      This. Let’s give up all we worked hard on – and watch the rollback of rights for women, native Americans, and so on and for what? A GOP that will continue to bomb the shit out of Palestinians.

      You don’t have to like Biden – but we got Democracy on the line here. It’s not all about the genocide in Israel. If this country goes fascist – this entire planet is going to be in chaos.

      Reply
    213. 213.

      cain

      April 3, 2024 at 2:14 pm

      @Another Scott:

      I would say this will give Biden the cover he needs to get more harsh. They keep shooting themselves in the foot.

      Worse the country is getting more and more isolated as even younger Jews are doing ‘wtf?’ – forget the religion – morality is still an important factor of what is going on and at some point Israel’s relationship with the world is going to be severely damaged.

      Reply
    214. 214.

      scav

      April 3, 2024 at 2:21 pm

      Whirled pease in a pot, nine days old.  First time I’ve noticed a technically savory pot pie here, although not at all a tasteful one.

      Reply
    215. 215.

      VFX Lurker

      April 3, 2024 at 2:29 pm

      @Matt McIrvin: The only thing that annoys me about it is an exploitable bug I’ve mentioned before, which I don’t think has been patched (could be wrong).

      That bug has not been patched, but my eyes now automatically skip over any posts with partially-pied nyms.

      Reply
    216. 216.

      Paul in KY

      April 3, 2024 at 2:39 pm

      @Jay: It’s horrible (IMO). 20 or 30 civilians could be killed if they could get one Hamas goon!?!?

      The callousness is right up there with that of the Totenkopf SS (and I do not say this lightly).

      Reply
    217. 217.

      VFX Lurker

      April 3, 2024 at 2:42 pm

      @Matt McIrvin: There’s a way you can change your nym so that you not only evade the pie filter,  but make it apparently impossible to pie you again (and if you do it between comments in the same thread, it’s impossible to pie all of your comments).

      Not impossible. If you un-pie the person, you can pie them again. If they vary their name in the same thread, sure, they’re partially pied.

      Reply
    218. 218.

      Another Scott

      April 3, 2024 at 2:44 pm

      @lowtechcyclist: Treaties have language about withdrawal.  That’s nothing new – e.g. START II – Article VI, Section 4): (6 page .pdf)

      4. Each Party shall, in exercising its national sovereignty, have the right to withdraw from this Treaty if it decides that extraordinary events related to the subject matter of this Treaty have jeopardized its supreme interests.
      It shall give notice of its decision to the other Party six months prior to withdrawal from this Treaty. Such notice shall include a statement of the extraordinary events the notifying Party regards as having jeopardized its supreme interests.

      Such language doesn’t seem to be present in this MOU.

      My impression is that the drafters of the MOU were more worried about Bibi continually running to Congress and demanding more and more money, and having little or no control over what Bibi did with the money that might be destabilizing (e.g. going nuts with missile defense). So, they wanted a clear MOU to prevent that. They didn’t – for lack of imagination – think about cases where Bibi would try to push all the Gazans into the sea and pave over the West Bank while nobody was looking there. Or, perhaps, they thought that Congress would make sure those things didn’t happen by not appropriating the funding.

      :-(

      My $0.02. FWIW.

      Cheers,
      Scott.

      Reply
    219. 219.

      Geminid

      April 3, 2024 at 2:45 pm

      @cain: Israel still has to pick and choose where they will be self-reliant. They can produce drones and  various missiles, but fighter jets are a diffent proposition. Modern fighter jets and especially their engines require too great an industrial investment for Israel’s size. They gave up on their domestic “Kfir” fighter program in the 1980s, and since have relied on F-16s, F-15s and F-35s that they buy from the U.S. using the ~$3.6 billion annual U.S. subsidy.They get their aerial refuling tankers from us too.

      This war has exposed Israel’s deficient domestic weapons production and stockpiles. The US started airlifting weapons and munitions immediately after the October 7 attack and has continued since including by ship, and Israel has used most of what we’ve sent. If they invade southern Lebanon they’ll need even more.

      There’s talk now of inshoring Israel’s military needs but that will take years. Right now, they have to fight with what the US and to a lesser extent the UK and Germany provide them.

      Reply
    220. 220.

      Another Scott

      April 3, 2024 at 3:00 pm

      @PeaceisPossible:

      RollCall, like TheHill, stories have to be read carefully.

      Reuters.com from March 9:

      WASHINGTON, March 9 (Reuters) – U.S. President Joe Biden said in an MSNBC interview on Saturday that Israel’s threatened invasion of Rafah in southern Gaza would be his “red line” for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu but then immediately backtracked, saying there was no red line and “I’m never going to leave Israel.”

      In a somewhat contradictory exchange with his interviewer, Biden said “they cannot have 30,000 more Palestinians dead as a consequence of going after” Hamas militants.

      Biden and his aides have urged Netanyahu in strong terms not to launch a major offensive in Rafah until Israel crafts a plan for mass evacuation of civilians from the last area of Gaza it has not yet invaded with ground forces. More than half of Gaza’s 2.3 million people are sheltering in the Rafah area.

      “There’s other ways to deal, to get to, to deal with … the trauma caused by Hamas,” Biden said, referring to the Islamist group’s Oct. 7 rampage in southern Israel in which 1,200 people were killed.

      Asked whether an Israeli invasion of Rafah would be a red line for him with Netanyahu, Biden said: “It is a red line but I’m never going to leave Israel. The defense of Israel is still critical. So there’s no red line (in which) I’m going to cut off all weapons so they don’t have the Iron Dome to protect them.”

      It seems clear enough to me, but too many want sound bites to be 5 syllables or less. And the political press loves nothing more than gotchas.

      YMMV.

      Cheers,
      Scott.

      Reply
    221. 221.

      Jackie

      April 3, 2024 at 3:09 pm

      @Manyakitty: I just don’t feed sea lions. When a thread ends up unreadable because it’s full of pie, it’s time for me to move on.

      Reply
    222. 222.

      Jay

      April 3, 2024 at 3:21 pm

      @Paul in KY:

      It’s a combination of rot in the IDF, caused by being used as enforcers for the Settlers and oppressors of anybody who disagrees with Bibi,

      rot in the Mossad and Shin Bet, where in they provide politically expedient reports up the chain, rather than factual reports, (eg. feeding Darth Cheney’s Team B with bs. so that BushII could get his Dubya Dubya Me Too on),

      And GIGO. Israel has “outsourced” all their intelligence functions, from identification, target evaluation, target elimination, to an AI that sifts through all the massive electronic surveillance Israel collects on Gaza.

      Keep in mind that Hamas is the only Civil Government in Gaza, so as far as the AI is concerned, anybody who has a job in Gaza, in any way connected to the Civil Government, is Hamas, so not just the fighters or the leaders, but Postal Workers and Garbagemen too.

      Reply
    223. 223.

      Manyakitty

      April 3, 2024 at 3:21 pm

      @Jackie: they do tend to kill the mood.

      Reply
    224. 224.

      Matt McIrvin

      April 3, 2024 at 4:01 pm

      @cain: BUT, also, it’s fueling a round of really dumb antisemitism from people who cannot distinguish the State of Israel from Jews *even if* they disapprove of and publicly protest the actions of the State of Israel. And I can’t help but think that that will have the marginal effect of making supporters double down.

      Reply
    225. 225.

      WaterGirl

      April 3, 2024 at 4:02 pm

      44 replies to the person who got exactly what they wanted.

      We can do better!

      Please don’t feed the bears.

      Jan 6 Hearing – Day 4 on Tuesday at 1 pm Eastern (LIVE)

      Reply
    226. 226.

      Betty Cracker

      April 3, 2024 at 4:20 pm

      @WaterGirl: Counterpoint: opinions on what constitutes a “troll” or “sea lion” vary, and I’m fine with folks engaging with that commenter in my thread. They have an opinion that isn’t unheard of in U.S. politics, and they weren’t harassing or abusing people to a degree that’s not tolerated here. There’s a pie filter for folks who don’t want to see the comments.

      Reply
    227. 227.

      lowtechcyclist

      April 3, 2024 at 4:23 pm

      @WaterGirl:

      Please don’t feed the bears.

      But look at all the goodies I’ve got in my pic-a-nic basket! ;-)

      Reply
    228. 228.

      PeaceisPossible

      April 3, 2024 at 4:48 pm

      @Betty Cracker: I sincerely appreciate you allowing my voice to be heard.

      We don’t need to fear opposing views.

      Thanks!

      Reply
    229. 229.

      lowtechcyclist

      April 3, 2024 at 4:51 pm

      @Another Scott:

      Such language doesn’t seem to be present in this MOU.

      I’m gonna say that it doesn’t matter under these circumstances. No agreement can legitimately require one nation to aid and abet another’s war crimes and mass slaughter of civilians.  And that’s what Biden should say.

      And if Israel doesn’t like it, what exactly are they going to do about it?

      Reply
    230. 230.

      Tony G

      April 3, 2024 at 5:00 pm

      In an ideal world this would not be the case, but this deliberate, deadly attack on aid workers will have the effect of turning more people against Israel than did the tens of thousands of deaths of Palestinian civilians.  This is the latest of several attacks by the IDF on aid workers.  It’s obvious to me that Israel is using starvation as a weapon in Gaza, and is therefore treating all attempts by people to alleviate that starvation as enemy acts.  Throughout my life I’ve generally been a supporter of Israel but, for me, this is the breaking point.

      Reply
    231. 231.

      Glidwrith

      April 3, 2024 at 5:12 pm

      @WaterGirl: Mmmmm, delicious and cute pastry!

      Reply
    232. 232.

      Jay

      April 3, 2024 at 5:29 pm

      ‘Lavender’: The AI machine directing Israel’s bombing spree in Gaza
      The Israeli army has marked tens of thousands of Gazans as suspects for assassination, using an AI targeting system with little human oversight and a permissive policy for casualties, +972 and Local Call reveal.

      https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/

      Yi Sima Quan posted this in Adam’s Ukraine Thread,

      it’s a follow on detailed investigation by 972 magazine adding to their previous investigations.

      Reply
    233. 233.

      WaterGirl

      April 3, 2024 at 7:18 pm

      @Jay: Wow.  That’s appalling.

      Reply
    234. 234.

      Tony G

      April 3, 2024 at 10:13 pm

      @Jay: I wonder whether the IDF is measuring its progress by the body-count metric that the U.S. used in Vietnam?  As the U.S. military demonstrated in Vietnam, the easiest way to total up an impressive body-count is to just kill a lot of civilians.

      Reply
    235. 235.

      Jay

      April 3, 2024 at 10:25 pm

      @Tony G:

      As the various reports note, Israel isn’t even counting the bodies, they are using the Gazan Heath Ministry’s numbers, which are low, because there are thousands of bodies still under the rubble.

      The IAF and IDF are on a genocidal murder spree, because there are no consequences, for them, now.

      Reply
    236. 236.

      Paul in KY

      April 4, 2024 at 10:47 am

      @Jay: It’s evil. Even in Ancient Rome, with their ‘Lists of Proscription’, they at least posted them in public where the targets could see their name and/or be told by their loved ones & then flee.

      Reply
    237. 237.

      Paul in KY

      April 4, 2024 at 10:49 am

      @Jay: To me, the only thing I can compare it to is what Hulagu Khan and his armies did as a brutal way to tamp down any resistance to their overlords: Ask a city to surrender. If it did not & any force was used to take it, massacre all inhabitants. Then pile their skulls in a big mound and move on.

      Nazis did worse, but that was a twisted state policy in the main. Not the combat orders of the day for the Wehrmacht.

      Reply

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