Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Michigan is a great lesson for Dems everywhere: when you have power…use it!

How stupid are these people?

“The defense has a certain level of trust in defendant that the government does not.”

Imperialist aggressors must be defeated, or the whole world loses.

Tide comes in. Tide goes out. You can’t explain that.

The arc of the moral universe doesn’t bend itself. it’s up to us.

Fight for a just cause, love your fellow man, live a good life.

Bad people in a position to do bad things will do bad things because they are bad people. End of story.

That’s my take and I am available for criticism at this time.

This isn’t Democrats spending madly. This is government catching up.

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

Petty moves from a petty man.

It’s pointless to bring up problems that can only be solved with a time machine.

You can’t attract Republican voters. You can only out organize them.

You don’t get to peddle hatred on saturday and offer condolences on sunday.

One lie, alone, tears the fabric of reality.

Republicans are the party of chaos and catastrophe.

Republicans do not pay their debts.

Proof that we need a blogger ethics panel.

Historically it was a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.

Those who are easily outraged are easily manipulated.

Hell hath no fury like a farmer bankrupted.

There are more Russians standing up to Putin than Republicans.

There is no right way to do the wrong thing.

You are here: Home / Elections 2024 / Friday Evening Open Thread: Damn You, P-Bump!

Friday Evening Open Thread: Damn You, P-Bump!

by | 124 Comments

This post is in: ,

But seriously: Philip Bump, writing for the Washington Post, is always informative — “No, posting is not better political activism than talking to voters” [gift link]:

Matt Yglesias is one of the more popular voices on the pro-Biden internet. That’s his framing, not mine; his newsletter “Slow Boring” is targeted to centrist Democrats interested in the nuances of how policy can address the country’s problems or at least people who like to think that they are. To use another metric to establish his bona fides, Yglesias is at the level of a commentator who gets profiled in The Washington Post.

Because he has that influence, his offering Tuesday morning deserves a response. Not because it is too generous or insufficiently generous to President Biden as it attempts to explain to readers how they can best aid Biden’s reelection. Instead, it is because it offers a notably bad assessment of the relative values of posting stuff on the internet vs. talking to actual voters.

The post is titled “How to make a difference in the 2024 election” and offers advice to that effect.

“I think it’s actually true that two of the best things you can do to defeat the MAGA movement do, in fact, happen online: giving money intelligently and posting mindfully,” Yglesias wrote…

This is bad advice, regardless of who you want elected.

We should start by reviewing what political campaigns want to do. The short version is “get votes.” But peel off the top layer and you can see the complexity underneath. Campaigns don’t get votes by encouraging everyone to vote, just adults who are registered to do so. And they don’t want to spend time getting every registered voter to cast a ballot, only the ones they think — or know — will vote for their candidate.

That part alone is complicated. Campaigns conduct polls to get a sense of who generally supports their candidates. If they find, for example, that White women over 65 overwhelmingly do, then they are going to do their best to get those White women to vote. They will, at times, engage in efforts to ensure those women know where, when and how to cast a ballot.

If they learn that Hispanic men under 45 can be persuaded by a particular argument, on the other hand, they will try to make that argument to those men. That includes direct mail and television ads in places those voters will be watching, sure. But it also means reaching out directly — presenting the argument to specific Hispanic men in that age group and recording whether it was effective. By which I mean: Asking the voters if they’ll vote for their candidate and writing it down, so that those who are convinced can be reminded where, when and how to cast their ballots.

You can see the points where legwork is required. The more volunteers a campaign has, the more specific, registered White women it can ensure vote before or on Election Day by reminding them with phone calls or by knocking on their doors. The more volunteers, the better the campaign can talk to those Hispanic men in the relevant electoral district and then engage in that same get-out-the-vote messaging with the ones who have been persuaded…

And here I am… posting on the internet, yes. But whatever my personal efforts, Mr. Bump’s argument is worth reading in full. I don’t know if you can subscribe to his weekly How to Read This Chart newsletter if you’re not a WaPo subscriber, but I’d recommend it!

Reader Interactions

124Comments

  1. 1.

    FastEdD

    Good afternoon. I’m not sticking around, I’m going out to talk to voters RIGHT NOW. Seeya!

  4. 4.

    different-church-lady

    The very-online thinks the only things that matter are on-line things? You don’t say!

  7. 7.

    Kent

    There were some big analytical stories in 2022 about Marie Glusenkamp Perez here in the Wa-3rd and how here success in winning the most red Congressional district in the country held by a Democrat was ground game.  Going door-to-door old school rather than running endless ads that no one watches anymore.

    She won while Dems in some more winnable district in OR (in theory) lost who didn’t have a ground game, and just pissed all their money away on consultants and ads.

    Here (Open in an incognito tab to avoid the paywall) :  https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/12/marie-gluesenkamp-perez-joe-kent-doorknocking.html

  8. 8.

    Kent

    @Baud:I would drive voters away if I spoke to them. But I agree with the general idea.

    So maybe you should go door-knocking for Trump then!

    Do some good old fashioned Baud-F***ing.

  10. 10.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Baud: BJP changed the entire political ecosystem in India by harnessing and weaponizing WhatsApp.

    Online engagement has to translate to grassroots engagement  otherwise its not of much use. Biden and his team use social media masterfully but they are not ruled by the loudmouths with huge followings on it.

  11. 11.

    VFX Lurker

    @Baud: I would drive voters away if I spoke to them. But I agree with the general idea.

    Same here. I’m better off writing Postcards to Voters.

  12. 12.

    Cacti

    I have to give Biden credit. He actually seems to be paying attention now to what the young voters are saying on Israel-Palestine.

    I did not see him withholding an arms shipment to Israel.  At all.

  14. 14.

    tam1MI

    Elected Michigan Dems stand up for the First Amendment rights of Pro-Palestinian protestors:*

    Heated Debate On Campus Protests, DEI Mark Higher Ed Budget Vote

    The partisan gulf over ongoing college campus protests over the Israel-Hamas conflict and university diversity, equity and inclusion programs led to a sharply worded, angry floor debate Thursday prior to Senate passage of its higher education budget.

    Republicans offered floor amendments to SB 752 Track focused on the campus protest and DEI issues in which members offered their case for the proposed changes.

    The amendments focused on the campus protests drew an angry rebuke from the Senate’s lone Jewish member while comments by one GOP member on the DEI programs amendment regarding scoring prospective students for admission of Asian Americans drew condemnation from multiple Democrats.

    A total of nine GOP amendments were offered for SB 752 Track, all of which failed. The bill later passed 20-16 along party lines.

    Sen. Joseph Bellino (R-Monroe) offered an amendment that would block any organization from being able to become a registered student group that has “a demonstrated history of supporting terrorist organizations or threats of physical violence toward others.”

    “Students are choosing to set their education aside and instead stand in line with extremism, violence and antisemitism,” Bellino said. “Worse yet, American students are participating in anti-American chants and support a U.S. government’s designated terrorist organization. This is both dangerous and concerning.”

    Sen. Jeremy Moss (D-Southfield), the chamber’s lone Jewish member, called amendments like the Bellino amendment nakedly political.

    Moss said he has previously spoken out on his aggravation with instances of antisemitism playing out on campuses recently. He said many students have been protesting peacefully but there has been some co-opting of protests in which antisemitic comments have resulted.

    From there, Moss unloaded on Republicans over the fact that the amendment was being put forward.

    “What is incredibly frustrating on this floor right now are the political attempts to weaponize this moment in the budget process,” Moss said.

    He said there are outlets for members to speak out against antisemitism and that members could also speak to their local university officials about what is happening on their campuses.

    “To use this budget process to attack this horrific situation that so many communities are trying to grapple with is a total perversion of why we’re here as lawmakers,” Moss said. “You want to do something in the budget? Let’s have a conversation. But you want to plop an amendment where really only the Jewish lawmaker is left grappling on what to do with this amendment, to me, are words that I can’t really print in the Journal. I’m pissed off that this is what we’re doing right now. I’m super pissed off that you put me in this position and that you really don’t have a care for the Jewish students on campus by using soundbites and the budget to exploit this.”

    Sen. Ed McBroom (R-Vulcan) said the amendment is simpler than the Democrats were making it out to be.

    “It’s a very narrow and prescriptive amendment,” McBroom said.

    Sen. Thomas Albert (R-Lowell) told of his military service in the Middle East and of tactics he said the enemy would sometimes employ in its fight against American soldiers, using the example of getting military convoys to slow down and using children to then throw grenades at soldiers.

    Sen. Jim Runestad (R-White Lake) echoed his GOP colleagues in that it was narrowly tailored.

    “The list is extremely limited, what, maybe 12 different organizations, international organizations, that you would not be able to support publicly at the university,” Runestad said.

    Other Democrats who rose in opposition were, like Moss, not pleased with the proposed amendment.

    Sen. Darrin Camilleri (D-Brownstown Township) called for its rejection on First Amendment grounds. He also pointed to the tactics of past movements including the Civil Rights movement in the 1960s, which were not popular at the time but made a difference.

    Camilleri said today, students are calling for government policy changes toward a conflict that has resulted in the deaths of tens of thousands of people, many being innocent civilians.

    “I refuse to live in a state where we weaponize our budget to go after students who are peacefully protesting,” Camilleri said. “These demonstrations are overwhelmingly focused on safeguarding human rights and dignity for all, no matter their race, religion or nationality.”

    Sen. Mallory McMorrow (D-Royal Oak) pointed to past instances of protests and demonstrations on campuses that have not led to similar amendments in the past, questioning the push now by Republicans to try to clamp down on the current protests.

    “This amendment is a violation of free speech and should be rejected,” McMorrow said.

    Sen. Lana Theis (R-Brighton) also offered a failed amendment that would have allowed the state to rescind scholarships from students who are found to be supportive of designated terrorist organizations.

    Too bad that all this will get them from the “Uncommitted” crowd is a loud and proud throwing the election to Donald Trump because Democrats Have To Be Taught A Lesson.

     

    – Link is paywalled.

  18. 18.

    Tony Jay

    @Kent:

    Only funny story I ever heard about former Tory Cabinet Minister Michael Portillo.

    Back in the day, during one of his first elections, he was out canvassing for votes. Marched up to a door, knocked heartily, and was greeted by a furious voter who pointed behind him to where Portillo’s footprints were visible in the recently poured concrete drive.

    Without missing a beat, Portillo gave him a beaming smile and announced “Good morning, Sir. I’m here representing your local Labour candidate.” Turned around and legged it.

    Possibly apocryphal, but I like it.

  20. 20.

    Ishiyama

    But being an armchair general can be so satisfying! I don’t have to prove any of my assertions, or engage my critics substantively. (I was dropping off literature door-to-door when I was 11 years old, for the Democratic Party.)

  21. 21.

    H.E.Wolf

    @Kent: ​There were some big analytical stories in 2022 about Marie Glusenkamp Perez here in the Wa-3rd and how [her] success in winning the most red Congressional district in the country held by a Democrat was ground game. Going door-to-door old school rather than running endless ads that no one watches anymore.

     I’ll add, for the introverts in the crowd (it me):

    Data entry is a useful adjunct to canvassing.

    I had to ask a couple of times before it sank in with the wonderful extroverts who were organizing volunteers… but with a little persistence, I found a niche doing data entry.

    It was very satisfying to find out which districts were on the “flip/defend” lists, and prioritize those updates so that the canvassers had accurate data on who lived in the targeted area.

    Guess what I’m doing in my spare time between now and November!

  22. 22.

    Geminid

    Laura Rozen just posted excerpts of the State Department’s report on Israeli compliance with international law in its Gaza offensive, along with screenshots of the 16 pagrs. They can be found on Twitter at @lrozen and on Blue Sky at lkrozen.bsky

    Ed. Maryland Senator Chris Van Hollen has commented on the report and will have more to say this weekend when he appears on CBS’s Face the Nation Sunday.

  23. 23.

    Baud

    @Geminid:

    https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/10/politics/biden-israel-gaza-war-report/index.html

    The Biden administration said Friday that it is “reasonable to assess” that US weapons have been used by Israeli forces in Gaza in ways that are “inconsistent” with international humanitarian law but stopped short of officially saying Israel violated the law.
    The report which was drafted by the State Department said that investigations into potential violations are ongoing but noted that the US does “not have complete information to verify” whether the US weapons “were specifically used” in alleged violations of international humanitarian law

  24. 24.

    zhena gogolia

    @Baud: You mean it’s complicated and difficult to prove and hard to separate legitimate actions from illegitimate? What a surprise.

  25. 25.

    Jeffro

    @Geminid: hey Geminid!  Any thoughts on the strongest Dem in VA-05 to take down Bob (No)Good?  Totally open here – they all seem to pass the basic ‘right on the issues’ tests.

  26. 26.

    Jeffro

    FPers, can someone post a clip of Katie Britt’s absolutely insane “national pregnancy registry” video and plan?  She’s the reason #SerenaJoy is trending on Twitter.

    fucking LOON

    (although that probably now puts her neck-and-neck with J.D. Vance for the VP nod)

  29. 29.

    Jackie

    Cringy Kate Britt is back at it:

    U.S. Sen. Katie Britt (R-AL) is being ridiculed on social media for a new piece of proposed legislation that, while billed as a child support bill for new moms, is being panned as yet another dystopian intrusion into women’s pregnancies.

    Britt announced the More Opportunities for Moms to Succeed (MOMS) Act. The bill would create a registry of pregnant women, who would then be steered to support services that include “crisis pregnancy centers” — usually faith-based groups designed to shame or trick women seeking abortions into keeping their pregnancies anyway.

    “To all of my fellow moms out there, my goal is to give you and your children the opportunities to thrive and to live your American dreams,” Britt said in a video announcing the policy.

    But it didn’t go over the way she was likely hoping on social media.

    “Katie Britt: Introduced a bill to create a federal database of pregnant women. Also Katie Britt: Opposes federal database of gun owners,” wrote Shannon Watts of Moms Demand Action.

    More at the link, including her creepy smiling fundie voice announcing her handmaid’s tale proposal. https://www.rawstory.com/katie-britt-shredded-register-women/

  31. 31.

    Baud

    @Jackie:

    Britt announced the More Opportunities for Moms to Succeed (MOMS) Act.

     
    As I said in the earlier thread, I hate acronyms within acronyms.

  33. 33.

    TF79

    I know people enjoy dunking on MY, but this feels like a weird response to a post that’s basically “Volunteering is great, but if you can’t do that, here’s some other useful things you can do.”

  34. 34.

    Jeffro

    @Jackie: she is an absolute psycho

    I can’t decide if she or Rick Scott or J.D. Vance are going to be the new face of the GOP once trump goes to jail/kicks the bucket but holy cow people, we are talking whole new levels of evil here.

  39. 39.

    Jeffro

    oh hey look, it’s actually the RNC that is worried about violence outside its convention this summer

    hmmm…I wonder what will happen if there’s a “dump trump” movement on top of all the other insanity?

    The RNC fight centers on Pere Lafayette Park in downtown Milwaukee, where the city plans to stage a “First Amendment Zone” for protesters to gather. Republican officials say that the park’s location means thousands of convention attendees will have to pass protesters while walking to the arena, which they say could lead to clashes and violence.

    The city says the park is the closest public park to the arena that is outside the Secret Service perimeter, and that the city is legally expected to give protesters “sight and sound” to the venue. City officials also say they are facing criticism from others that the park is not close enough.

    I’m sure there will be issues in Chicago and the DNC, but (nickel bet) there will be equally bad if not worse demonstrations going on in Milwaukee and the RNC.  All those neo-Nazis and white supremacists aren’t just gonna let the GOP delegates quietly do their thing…

  43. 43.

    TBone

    My last in-person conversation about voting happened on election day 2022.  I asked my favorite supermarket checkout guy (a Black guy named Earl, who is always gregarious and extremely positive) whether he’d voted that day.  “Oh, I don’t bother, ‘they’ will choose whoever ‘they’ want.” I was flabbergasted and nothing I could say in protest budged him an inch.  I tried.  Hard.

  44. 44.

    Jackie

    @Jay: It’s so funny; I just read an article stating how much Barron was looking forward to escaping his helicopter mom.

    I guess he’s gotta wait awhile longer before Melania lets loose of her octopus tentacles.

    Maybe he’ll have a chance when he goes off to college.🤷🏼‍♀️

  45. 45.

    Jay

    @different-church-lady:

    Home / General / The Kids Are Alright
    The Kids Are Alright
    BY ERIK LOOMIS / ON MAY 2, 2024 / AT 10:40 AM / IN GENERAL1155 VIEWS

    Look, I am ambivalent about the college occupations and tent camps. I am not sure of this as a strategy and I often don’t see endgames to the idea of occupying space. But what do I care? Why should I be the person telling young people what to do? What I can say is some of the comments on Paul’s post yesterday show a shocking lack of historical context and a myopia that comes from constant attention to the 24-hour media cycle where everything is framed through how it affects the presidential election.

    We need to step back here. First, the idea that the civil rights movement DID IT ALL RIGHT AND WHY CAN’T THE KIDS BE LIKE THEY WERE IN 1962 is historical nonsense that comes out the liberal version of the flawed history of civil rights. Let’s look back at my Rosa Parks grave post from last week. Everything we know about Parks is basically wrong, she was a huge supporter of armed Black self-defense, worked with Black Power organizations, and was far from a deeply committed nonviolent activist. How does all of this impact how you see Parks? How does it impact how you see the movement as a whole? Maybe it doesn’t, I don’t know. But it should. The CRM was never some unified organization with General King and the highly trained, disciplined troops doing all of this in a way that would not offend whites. I mean, it wasn’t like that at all.

    I would also like to point out that when Martin Luther King was assassinated in 1968, 25 percent of white Americans approved of King. 25%!!!!! A full 75% either did not care about King or loathed him and everything the CRM stood for. I haven’t seen polling on the actions at Columbia and UCLA, but I’d be shocked if it was less than 25%. The idea that if you DO PROTEST RIGHT, everyone will come around to your position and support you is absolutely ahistorical nonsense. No matter what kind of protest action you do, most people very well may hate it.

    Moreover, if you want to blame anyone in all of these protests, blame the administrations. Why be a Laurie Pritchett when you can be a Bull Connor? Pritchett was the sheriff in Albany, Georgia who shut down the town’s integration campaign in 1962 through peacefully arresting everyone, giving the media nothing to talk about, and taking their easily bored attention away from the movement. King realized what happened and so specifically chose Birmingham in 1963 because he knew that Connor was too stupid and violent to do that. It worked. King walked into Birmingham specifically to incite violence. Think of this too–King and Ralph Abernathy and Fred Shuttlesworth and all these leaders planned the children’s march in Birmingham specifically knowing that kids would likely die and that only the blood of children would gain the national attention necessary to push for what became the Civil Rights Act. This was a sacrifice they were willing and even perhaps eager to make.

    https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2024/05/the-kids-are-alright-3

  47. 47.

    Starfish

    @Baud: I really think the proper LLM, if trained properly, could win the Presidency. Our first generative Ai president.

  49. 49.

    Geminid

    @Jeffro: I’ll ask my friend Joanie. It sounds like any of them will be better than the guy who ran last time. He got the nomination when two other candidates could not get the petition signatures to make it on the primary ballot.

    Back then, Joan introduced me to a good candidate who was staying at her short-term rental apartment. He was a retired attorney who had moved from Abingdon to take a job with the new Albemarle Commonwealth’s Attorney, Jim Hingely.

    Lewis ___ was a solid candidate whose wife was a Clinton Elector in 2016. But when the state finally finished redistricting, the 5th CD had gone from R+5 to R+8 or 9 and Lewis dropped out.

    That is the problem, and it keeps local state Delegates and other promising candidates from running. Maybe towards the end of the decade, demographic and political shifts will induce Cameron Webb to give it another try.

    But Bob Good might not survive the June primary. I heard my first John McGuire ad today; the breathless announcer described a band of American soldiers hard-pressed by insurgents in Afghanistan. They called for help! and Navy SEAL John McGuire came to their rescue! Now this “Pro-Trump Conservative” is asking for your vote!

    This might work if only because Bob Good is so repulsive a person. And Trump henchman Chris LaCivita told Cardinal News that once his allies were done with DeSantis-endorser Good, he will be unelectable.

  50. 50.

    Citizen Alan

    @Jay:  I called it. The second Shitgibbon is dead and the inheritance check clears, Barron’s going to come out as a Democrat.

  51. 51.

    Jackie

    @Jay: Two days ago Barron was excited to go.

    Note today’s regretful decline was issued from Melania’s office. No statement from Barron, unlike the article from the other day.

  52. 52.

    Baud

    Via reddit (warning, I don’t know who that authors are)

    Just How Compromised Is The GOP By The Russians?
    There’s increasing evidence that the Russians are pulling the GOP’s puppet strings.

  53. 53.

    PJ

    @Cacti: ​
     
    Two months ago, Biden said he would withhold weapons if Israel attacked Rafah without a plan to protect civilians. He’s been angry about the civilian casualties for a while. It doesn’t seem like he chose this stance because he finally “paid attention to what the young voters are saying.”

  54. 54.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Ian:

    Matt Yglesias is one of the more popular voices

    Citation needed.

    Exactly.

    He always makes it seem like he is part of some sort of correct, reasonable majority on any given issue, when in fact he is a useless turd whose input has never been salient in any context whatsoever.

    One of the most fauxgressives around.

    Should The Revolution ever occur, the first two places on my list are his and Larry Summers.

  55. 55.

    Jackie

    Poor Rudy 🤭

    “Rudy Giuliani was suspended by WABC radio on Friday and his daily talk show was canceled after he violated station policy by trying to discuss discredited claims about the legitimacy of the 2020 presidential election on air,” the New York Times reports.

    “John Catsimatidis, the billionaire who is a major Republican donor and owns the station, said he had made the decision after Mr. Giuliani refused to comply with the policy related to the election after repeated warnings.”

    Didn’t Rudy get the bankruptcy judge to let him keep his FL mansion – because he needed it for broadcasting his podcast and it was his only means to earn money? 😂🤣😂

  56. 56.

    Starfish

    @Citizen Alan: We keep trying to write redemption stories for the Trump family? What if they are not better people than he is?

    Melania telling him to stay out of it is a smart move. His father has a lot of legal liabilities at the moment and could potentially lose the election, and Barron should be distant from his father’s questionable legacy. If his father were to win again, then maybe something, but right now, a lot of things are uncertain.

  58. 58.

    Jackie

    @Starfish: It appears to be parental tug-of-war.

    Barron is legally an adult; I wonder if/when he’ll start exerting his independence. He’s damned by both parents. Melania probably has Barron’s best interests in mind, but should he really want to dip his toes in daddy’s politics, at 18, he has the right.

    ETA: If TIFG appointed Barron without discussing it with him, that’s a different kettle of fish. Barron may have asked mommy to save him 🤷🏼‍♀️

  59. 59.

    Jay

    @Baud:

    it’s basically everything that has been reported in public in dribs and drabs over the years in one report tying various threads together.

  60. 60.

    BlueGuitarist

    Thanks as always AL.
    Doesn’t seem like P Bump addressed Matt Y’s first point “giving money intelligently”
    for which you’re already at the best place – thanks WaterGirl
    you can click on the link right here for Balloon Juice for VAAC ->
    funding people who will talk to voters in the places where getting out the vote matters most!
    Canvassing, postcarding and phone banking will all help, of course.
    Fired up and ready to go!

  61. 61.

    Geminid

    @Jeffro: So my friend Joanie got back to me, and she said Gloria Tinsley Witt’s the one. That’s based on Witt raising $12,510 to Gary Terry’s $860. Third place guy didn’t report any money raised. I guess Democrats regard the Virginia 5th CD as a no-hope district.

     

    @Geminid:

  65. 65.

    karen marie

    @Jay: In other words, Man-Boob Mussolini forced the Florida GOP to name Barron as a delegate but didn’t bother talking to Barron about it first.

    Color me shocked!

  67. 67.

    different-church-lady

    @Jay: That was over a week ago, before it became blatantly obvious the college campers had lost the plot.

  68. 68.

    schrodingers_cat

    FTFNYT had a podcast about the Indian elections, the polling isn’t yet over and the fuckers are pretending like Modi has already won. Sabrina Tavernise’s question to their bureau chief was, which Modi are we going to get in his third term.  I switched it off.  They do love strongmen at that rag don’t they?

    Height of laziness focusing on one person, its not a fucking presidential election. Its doesn’t fucking matter how popular Modi is if his party can’t win a majority of the seats in the Loksabha (Indian equivalent of the House of Commons)

  69. 69.

    Kay

    @tam1MI:

    Too bad that all this will get them from the “Uncommitted” crowd is a loud and proud throwing the election to Donald Trump because Democrats Have To Be Taught A Lesson.

    Well, they can comfort themselves with the knowlege that they defended the Constitution of the United States.

    The list is extremely limited, what, maybe 12 different organizations, international organizations, that you would not be able to support publicly at the university,” Runestad said.

    Absolutely bonkers levels of censorship. A full blown moral panic. No one who backs this is going to admit they did in ten years.

  70. 70.

    Jackie

    Do you all recall the Republican House member Troy Nehls of Texas who sported TIFG’s mugshot on his teeshirt plus a red, white and blue bow tie at the SOTU?

    The independent office that reviews allegations against House members found probable cause that Rep. Troy Nehls of Texas converted campaign funds to personal use, triggering an investigation by the House Ethics Committee, a new disclosure revealed Friday.

    The recommendation and the full report from the Office of Congressional Ethics were both released Friday, as required under the law. The leaders of the House Ethics Committee emphasized that the disclosure does not itself mean that a violation has occurred and stressed that the investigation into Nehls is ongoing. Nehls’ lawyer told the committee the lawmaker did not profit from the arrangement that had raised red flags with the ethics office.

    Nehls, a second term Republican lawmaker, was a county sheriff for eight years before serving in the House.

    *snip*

    The ethics office said Nehls’ campaign committee made more than $25,000 in rental payments since late 2019 to an entity known as Liberty 1776, LLC, and that a review of state records shows that he was the registered agent for the company.

    The report notes that campaigns cannot spend money for “personal use,” and that prohibition includes the purchase or lease of services from the member himself. The office said Nehls declined to cooperate with its investigation and due to that lack of cooperation, no witnesses could confirm that the payments made to Liberty 1776 were for legitimate campaign purposes.
    https://apnews.com/article/troy-nehls-texas-republican-campaign-ethics-investigation-147d702a83e3fab96a874cb757bbaa3f

  71. 71.

    Starfish

    Someone on the local Nextdoor complained that a passerby knocked down his Kennedy/Shanahan sign asking “Who would ever knock down a sign in someone else’s yard.”

    Mr. Starfish responded, “Must be brainworms.” 😍

  72. 72.

    karen marie

    @Jackie: Where did you read that “Barron was excited to go”?  I’ve only seen reports from GOP/Trump sources that Barron was named, nothing that suggests he made any kind of statement about it.

  73. 73.

    Kay

    @different-church-lady:

    Yes, because if there’s anything we know about older voters it’s that they know the “history of the middle east” and the “history of the world”. Is that a joke?

    They’re not protesting not because they “know history” – they’re not protesting because they don’t care.

  74. 74.

    Bill Arnold

    The current geomagnetic storm is at G5 now. (That’s the top of the scale, though it’s the low end of those at the moment.)
    Seven CMEs (sunspot AR3664 has been shooting them off) are bathing the earth in hot plasma over the next few days, some bumping into each other since they launch at different speeds, so Chaos, and limited instrumentation, so predictions are difficult.
    Anyway, if you have clear skies and are in the Northern part of the USA or Canada or similar latitude, worth a look for auroras. Might even be auroras at lower latitudes.

  76. 76.

    Jackie

    @rikyrah: So scary. A pregnancy registration tracker could allow a tracking device put on their vehicle unknowingly, to catch her heading to the border in red states such as TX or ID, just to name two…😡

  77. 77.

    Hoppie

    @Jay:

    ‘While Barron is honored to have been chosen as a delegate by the Florida Republican Party, he regretfully declines due to prior commitments which will be made tomorrow,” the statement from the former first lady’s office said.

    FIFY

  78. 78.

    Starfish

    @different-church-lady: They’re really not.

    Alumni are saying they are not going to donate to these universities.

    I am not sure why you are so opposed to students camping on the lawns of the universities that they pay gazillions of dollars to attend.

    I am not sure why university administrations are so stupid that they think parents are going to continue paying a gazillion dollars to universities where administrators will turn the police on their kids.

    I know she was secretary of state and knows a lot about the history of these issues, but I am not sure why she wants these kids to get off her damn lawn. People are starving, and she is just sitting there saying “I know more about this than you do.”

    Today, Colson Whitehead said he was not going to do the commencement address at UMass Amherst because they are turning the police on the students.

  80. 80.

    Kay

    @Starfish: \

    How does she know what they know? Has she spoken to a single one of them? This is the “wise elder” approach? You make an insulting pronouncement about a huge group of people without gathering any real information at all?

  84. 84.

    wjca

    @Geminid: Trump henchman Chris LaCivita told Cardinal News that once his allies were done with DeSantis-endorser Good, he will be unelectable.

    It’s enough to make one hope he is correct.  But Good wins the primary anyway.  On the way to being proven unelectable in the general election.

  85. 85.

    Kay

    @Starfish:

    I think political leaders feel some moral and ethical responsibility for the human rights catastrophe (rightfully) so they’re lashing out at the students, who keep reminding them of the human rights catastrophe they would rather not hear about or think about. It’s really not their finest hour.

  86. 86.

    RSA

    @Jeffro:

    The RNC fight centers on Pere Lafayette Park in downtown Milwaukee, where the city plans to stage a “First Amendment Zone” for protesters to gather. Republican officials say that the park’s location means thousands of convention attendees will have to pass protesters while walking to the arena, which they say could lead to clashes and violence.

     
    The RNC ought to be fighting for a “Second Amendment Zone,” to be collocated with their convention. That should ensure that everyone is polite!

  87. 87.

    MagdaInBlack

    @Bill Arnold: They are saying they’ll be visible in the Chicago area. Except, of course, they won’t, with the light pollution. But out in the cornfields where I grew up, probably. I’ve seen them in northern Manitoba and Saskatchewan and the memory still amazes me.

  88. 88.

    Starfish

    @Kay: I thought I was a normie Democrat, and then I saw Charles Gaba raising ActBlue funds to oppose members of The Squad here in the year 2024.

  89. 89.

    RevRick

    Having been head volunteer for the Obama ‘12 and Clinton ‘16 campaigns in Allentown, I can attest to what an incredible investment of time and energy to do phone banking to recruit more volunteers and then do voter contacts by phone and door knocking. Like from January until Election Day. And as we were told the data said all this effort was to move the needle by three percent at best.
    I knew we were in trouble in 2016 by all the angry responses we were getting from Democrats. I turned off the TV after it became clear that Florida was going red on Election night.

  90. 90.

    Jay

    @different-church-lady:

    NeoNazi’s attacked the peaceful and Faculty supported UVic protest camp yesterday and badly beat two people.

    In Quebec the Premier and the President of McGill keep calling on the police to clear the camp. The Mayor of Montreal, Campus Police, the Faculty, the Montreal Police and the Surete du Quebec* keep telling them to pound sand.

    *The Surete du Quebec has one of the worst police records in Canada.

    But I understand, it’s the old recycled whine, “but they are protesting WRONG”.

  91. 91.

    wjca

    @RSA: The RNC ought to be fighting for a “Second Amendment Zone,” to be collocated with their convention. That should ensure that everyone is polite!

    Or, considering the temperaments of those involved, well ventilated.

  92. 92.

    Kay

    @Starfish:

    Political leaders and media are really very close to blaming the students for the utter catastrophe in Gaza. By next week Gaza will be the fault of the students – “stop making us bomb and starve those people with your tents and chants!”  Bonkers. Just accept responsibility! This is what the US is doing. We signed up for this. The students are not the problem with this policy!

  93. 93.

    Torrey

    ​

    @different-church-lady: ​
     

    I am all for protesting against senseless war a destruction, but this group is really fucking blowing it.

    The media is, of course, focusing on the instances where there’s violence. At least in some cases they’re hinting that the protests are likely to have been infiltrated by activists not associated with the campus in question. There have been a lot of peaceful protests on many campuses–ignored, of course, by the major outlets.

    I hate to say it, but I’m less than impressed with HRC’s comment. She’s absolutely right about the importance of being aware of history, and it is significant that Arafat turned that deal down, but, just as Netanyahu’s policies don’t justify Hamas’ actions, Arafat’s decision doesn’t abrogate the rights of the Palestinian people.

  97. 97.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Hoppie: 40% of the country still has to vote. There is no need to jump the gun. Is all I am saying. From your keyboard to ceiling cat’s ears.

    Modi’s rally speeches are getting more and more hate mongery. As a PM he has at least pretended to be above the fray. That mask is slipping. So I am guess that all is not well.

  99. 99.

    tam1MI

    @Kay:Political leaders and media are really very close to blaming the students for the utter catastrophe in Gaza. By next week Gaza will be the fault of the students – “stop making us bomb and starve those people with your tents and chants!”  Bonkers. Just accept responsibility! This is what the US is doing. We signed up for this. The students are not the problem with this policy!

    In case it’s escaped your notice, Israel is an independent sovereign nation, not the 51st state.  Joe Biden is not personally going bombing missions over Gaza, licking his lips as hospitals and children get blown apart.

    But this is just typical of the Uncommitted crowd’s overheated rhetoric and moving the goalposts.  They demanded that the US send humanitarian aid to Gaza.  Humanitarian aid got sent.  ZIP! Go the goalposts.  They demanded that weapons no longer be sent to Israel.  Weapons were halted.  ZIP!  Go the goalposts.  Now somehow it’s not Israel but the US that is conducting the military campaign in Gaza.  Because only Joe Biden has agency.  Only the Democrats have agency.

    Don’t kid yourself that this is about “policy”.  If it were about policy, the protestors would have taken the W already.  It isn’t about policy.  It is about throwing the election to Donald Trump in order to Teach the Democrats a Lesson.

  100. 100.

    Another Scott

    @schrodingers_cat: @different-church-lady: @Starfish:

    I notice the MSNBC clip doesn’t show the question that HRC was responding to.  I’ve learned to be cautious about jumping to conclusions in such instances.

    If one does a Google search for videos of “Hillary Clinton college protests” (without the quotes) one will see a long-running list of clips going back years of people protesting her.

    I think that’s the context of the “many, many months” early in her comments in the MSNBC clip.

    The MSNBC clip seems to be from <a href=”https://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/-propaganda-is-not-education-hillary-clinton-on-combating-misinformation-in-schools-and-online-210572870000″>Morning Joe from yesterday</a> (9:02).

    He says he’s going to talk about and ask her about things before October 7.  Like people calling her and Madeline Albright war criminals.

    HRC isn’t stupid.  She was the smart one in the WJC, HRC couple, remember.

    tl;dr – Beware the ellipsis.

    FWIW.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  101. 101.

    Starfish

    @tam1MI: How much of the humanitarian aid is getting into Gaza?
    1) The amount of aid is not sufficient.
    2) The aid cannot move around in Gaza because it is not safe there
    3) Gaza is experiencing famine.

  103. 103.

    tam1MI

    @Starfish: How much of the humanitarian aid is getting into Gaza?
    1) The amount of aid is not sufficient.
    2) The aid cannot move around in Gaza because it is not safe there
    3) Gaza is experiencing famine.

    And that is the fault of the United States… how?

    Gotta love the tankie Left.  They are always yammering about the evils of colonialism and how terrible it is to trample on the rights of sovereign nations… until the US NOT engaging in colonialism and respecting the rights of sovereign nations becomes a useful club to beat Dems with.  Then it’s trample away!

  106. 106.

    Kay

    @tam1MI:

    So the protestors were right after all and the hands of the US weren’t tied and they weren’t helpless? Hence the delay in one class of weapons? We’ve discussed this before. The reason they delayed the weapons is that the United States is bound by US and international law NOT to supply weapons to governments or police agencies who commit war crimes. At some point there’s going to be some investigation into this. There will be a reckoning. It would probably be best when that reckoning comes if the United States was not a knowing party to war crimes, which are crimes, so illegal. Or at least had plausible deniability on war crimes.

    If the protestors were all jailed tomorrow these same issues would still exist because they didn’t cause this. We have to accept  responsibility for the things that we do. We supplied and supply the weapons for this. That’s why we have some responsibility for it. I know it upsets Biden and Hillary Clinton, hence their lashing out at the students. Tough shit. Heavy is the head that wears the crown. They wanted to be in charge of US foreign policy. They can hardly blame 19 year olds for the state of the world they both played such powerful roles in.

  107. 107.

    Jay

    @tam1MI:

    Don’t kid yourself that this is about “policy”. If it were about policy, the protestors would have taken the W already. It isn’t about policy. It is about throwing the election to Donald Trump in order to Teach the Democrats a Lesson.

    The #1 demand of the Student Protests, is that their Universities “Boycott, Divest and Sanction”. They want their Uni’s to stop buying MIC stocks, collaborating with Israeli security and surveillance programs, inviting certain Israeli “speakers” to campus.*

    None of that has anything to do with President Joe Biden and his Administration.

    * This demand is of course, illegal in 25 US States.

    The #2 demand across the board, is restoring* or creating greater student involvement in the running of the Universities and Programs.

    * over the past 6 years, 78 Student Congress orgs have been stripped of all input and monitoring powers that they have had since the early 1970’s

    Again, has nothing to do with President Joe Biden and his Administration.

    The 3rd demand, varies across the board. At one Uni, well, they want more student housing and services, because they are tired of having to live in their cars for 4 years at $30k a semester and are enjoying living on a lawn in tents for a change. At another Uni, the complaint is highly biased rules that limit who can be a “Speaker”, so they get Charlie Kirk, the dregs of TPUSA and Kyle Rittenhouer and not Imandi Gandi. Etc.

    Again, not President Joe Biden’s and his Administration’s policies.

    Once again, read Martin’s front page post and his comments.

  108. 108.

    Kay

    These are war crimes. No one even really denies it anymore – they draw the line at “genocide” because genocide has a narrow legal meaning (and I agree – under that it’s not genocide and won’t be until there’s a famine) , but no one seriously doubts these are war crimes anymore. Why would we want the US to be a party to this? It isn’t just going to go away. Probably 50,000 civilians are dead – might be much more when they start moving all that rubble. There will be investigations. I’m asking you to stop looking at this solely as “the students are sabotoging Joe Biden” and instead look at what’s happening.

    Sde Teiman, IsraelCNN — 
    At a military base that now doubles as a detention center in Israel’s Negev desert, an Israeli working at the facility snapped two photographs of a scene that he says continues to haunt him.I:

  111. 111.

    tam1MI

    @Kay: They can hardly blame 19 year olds for the state of the world they both played such powerful roles in.

    No one blames the protestors for the situation in Gaza. The blame there rests solely on the government of Israel and their conduct of the war. What people are doing is questioning why, if the protestors are so gravely concerned about the plight of the people in Gaza, they are engaging in actions that will ultimately result in even more horrors being visited on them – to wit, the election of Donald Trump. Their actions point to a very different motive.

  112. 112.

    tam1MI

    @Kay: no one seriously doubts these are war crimes anymore. Why would we want the US to be a party to this?

    Last I checked, the United States was not standing in the way of the ICC finding Israel guilty of war crimes.

  113. 113.

    Kay

    Senator Chris Van Hollen (D-Md.) described the Biden administration’s review of Israel’s war conduct in the Gaza Strip — which acknowledged the likely violation of international humanitarian law using U.S. weapons — as “woefully inadequate,” but did not indicate a ban on arms transfers.
    “If this conduct complies with international standards, God help us all,” Van Hollen said in a call with reporters shortly after the State Department transmitted its report to Congress

    Someone should ask Hillary Clinton if Van Hollen and the other 8 senators who demanded this report also don’t know any history. Maybe no one in the Biden Administration does either, because this:

    acknowledged the likely violation of international humanitarian law using U.S. weapons

    means war crimes.

  114. 114.

    Jay

    @tam1MI:

    80.4% comes from the US.

    10.4% from India.

    2.3% from Germany,

    0.9% from Italy, (cancelled)

    0.8% from Canada, (cancelled)

    0.5% from Columbia, (cancelled)

  116. 116.

    tam1MI

    @Jay: I take your point on the second news article, but the first one is dated 2020 and details actions then taken in by Trump administration, so I am not sure how it is germane to the conversation.

  117. 117.

    JWR

    @Jay:

    You must be a “normie”.

    Watch it, Jay, lest you join Kay and Starfish in the BJ “Tankie” brigade. ;)

  118. 118.

    Jay

    @tam1MI:

    Like I said, you must be a normie.

    While the US is not a member of the ICC and will never be, they have an over large dick to swing about.

    dis·cus·sion

    /dəˈskəSHən/

    noun

    1. the action or process of talking about something in order to reach a decision or to exchange ideas.

      “the proposals are not a blueprint but ideas for discussion”

      • a conversation or debate about a certain topic.
        plural noun: discussions

        “discussions about environmental improvement programs”

        Similar:

        conversation

      • VS.

        Dictionary

        Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more

        warn·ing

        /ˈwôrniNG/

        noun

        1. a statement or event that indicates a possible or impending danger, problem, or other unpleasant situation.

          “a red warning light”

  119. 119.

    Jay

    @JWR:

    LMFAO

    More generally, a tankie is someone who tends to support “militant opposition to capitalism”, and a more modern online variation, which means “something like ‘a self-proclaimed communist who indulges in conspiracy theories and whose rhetoric is largely performative.

  120. 120.

    Kay

    @tam1MI:

    It isn’t going to lose the race for Biden. The vast majority of people won’t care about it at all. There’s a genuine issue in MI, by the numbers, but Biden could probably overcome it by just getting labor to go from 55 D to 60 D. There’s half a million labor union members in MI – they could probably make the +/- 80k votes he’ll lose from Arab American areas a wash.

  121. 121.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: It won’t take that long. A couple of years, tops, and they’ll be pretending they never supported it. Kind of like how no one wants to admit they supported the Iraq War and Occupation. A law like that wouldn’t withstand a lawsuit if we had normal courts.

  122. 122.

    Eolirin

    Foreign policy is fucking complicated and the “obvious” and simple morally and legally “correct” options frequently carry with them risks of outcomes that are far far worse than extremely questionable if not outright objectionable actions.

    Diplomacy, much like politics, does not work if you take morally fixed positions. It is far more important to look at what the strategic goal is, and to look at, in retrospect, when everything is done, whether it was successfully arrived at, than to get caught up in the details of which actions were taken and when.

    The Libyan Civil War is a case study in how you can end up with significant unintended consequences to doing what seems like the right thing. Because we don’t get to see the counterfactuals it’s really easy to be intensely critical of what seems like obviously correct choices not being taken. But the these things are never that simple.

    Since no one here is privy to the negotiations that have been happening, and has no idea what intel suggests other parties may or may not be geared up to do, there is no way for anyone here to say what the US should or shouldn’t be doing at a tactical level with its decision making, just what its high level objectives should be.

    Which… minimizing and preventing humanitarian catastrophe, minimizing and containing any regional expansion of the conflict, and making sure that there’s an Israel that outlives the current government are things I think we can all agree are important here, and all seem to be what State’s been working toward this whole time.

    But sometimes that may require State to not do things that it “should” be doing or to do things that it “shouldn’t”, because it may, in context, be tactically counterproductive to those goals. Some tactics only get to be used once. Some times a foundation needs to be built before taking certain moves. Sometimes more space needs to be provided to negotiating parties than a lot of us may be morally comfortable with.

    Because no one can force the other parties to do what we want them to do. Everyone has agency here. And what ultimately matters is that the conflict and resultant humanitarian crisis comes to an end, no matter what it takes to get everyone there, and that movement is finally made toward a more durable solution so that this doesn’t keep happening every few years and so that the conditions Palestinians are living under improve. 

    Everything else is noise.

    As an aside, the problem with these protests aren’t that they’re happening, that the kids are stupid, or that they’re all that likely to effect the election, it’s that they’re being hijacked, both directly in some cases, and in other cases through the response to them, in ways that will be used to increase and normalize violence against Muslims and Jews and to discredit and weaken higher educational institutions and push them in a more reactionary right wing direction.

    Which is only being made even worse by the way some schools are responding to the situation, so it’s not all on the student side.

    And it’s absolutely only the ones we’re hearing about because they’ve gone sideways that matter as far as this dynamic is concerned. Everything else is a negotiation between students and administrations and is really no one else’s business, since we’re not privy to or affected by those relationships.

  123. 123.

    Jay

    @Eolirin:

    As an aside, the problem with these protests aren’t that they’re happening, that the kids are stupid, or that they’re all that likely to effect the election, it’s that they’re being hijacked, both directly in some cases, and in other cases through the response to them, in ways that will be used to increase and normalize violence against Muslims and Jews and to discredit and weaken higher educational institutions and push them in a more reactionary right wing direction.

    Which is only being made even worse by the way some schools are responding to the situation, so it’s not all on the student side.

    That’s 100 claps for you,……..good job.

  124. 124.

    wjca

    @Eolirin: Since no one here is privy to the negotiations that have been happening, and has no idea what intel suggests other parties may or may not be geared up to do, there is no way for anyone here to say what the US should or shouldn’t be doing at a tactical level with its decision making, just what its high level objectives should be.

    This.  Actually, the whole thing.

    Of course, it’s easy, trivial even, to take absolutist moral stands when you aren’t inconvenienced by excessive knowledge.  And probably satisfying, for those who will never be responsible for the outcomes in the real world.

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