Robert F. Kennedy Jr. challenges Donald Trump to debate at Libertarian Convention https://t.co/ed3jqhpvEe
— The Associated Press (@AP) May 8, 2024
Per the Associated Press:
Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has challenged Donald Trump to a head-to-head debate for when both address a Libertarian convention later this month, a move that comes as the presumptive GOP nominee has ramped up both criticism of Kennedy’s independent bid and demands that President Joe Biden meet him on a debate stage.
Arguing that he is “drawing a lot of voters from your former supporters,” Kennedy said to Trump in an open letter posted Tuesday to X that the Libertarian convention provides “perfect neutral territory for you and me to have a debate where you can defend your record for your wavering supporters.”
Trump has been bullish in calling on Biden to debate him ahead of the November general election but has shied away from other rivals’ previous debate entreaties. Trump skipped the 2024 GOP primary debates, saying it was unnecessary because voters know him and his record.
Kennedy, who last year challenged Biden for the Democratic nomination before launching an independent bid, has argued that his relatively strong showing in a few national polls gives his candidacy heft. Polls during the 2016 presidential campaign regularly put libertarian Gary Johnson’s support in the high single or low double digits, but he ultimately received only about 3% of the vote nationwide…
It got dumber.
www.nytimes.com/2024/05/07/u…— Jacob T. Levy (@jacobtlevy.bsky.social) May 7, 2024 at 7:34 PM
… With Mr. Trump escalating his attacks on him on social media, Mr. Kennedy, who is seeking ballot access and voter support in all 50 states, issued his challenge in an open letter on X. Mr. Kennedy cited his performance in two national polls, saying he was “drawing a lot of voters from your former supporters.”
“They are upset that you blew up the deficit, shut down their businesses during Covid, and filled your administration with swamp creatures,” he said. “So I’d like to make you an offer,” he said, adding that their campaign schedules made for a logical showdown. “It’s perfect neutral territory for you and me to have a debate where you can defend your record for your wavering supporters.”
A spokesman for the Trump campaign did not respond to a request for comment. A spokesman for the Libertarian Party did not immediately provide a comment.
The party’s convention is set for Memorial Day weekend in Washington. Mr. Kennedy is set to speak on May 24, his campaign said on Tuesday; Mr. Trump is scheduled for May 25. Both candidates are trying to appeal to a broader base of support in the election, but neither is expected to be on the party’s ballot line in November.
Mr. Kennedy previously ruled out running as a Libertarian, though he has courted party members since he became an independent last fall. The party is among the more established third parties, and as of last week was on the ballot in 37 states; Mr. Kennedy is mounting a state-by-state effort to get on the November election ballot.
As for Mr. Trump, Angela McArdle, the chairwoman of the Libertarian party, said last week that it was “not possible” under the party’s bylaws to nominate him.
Several candidates seeking the Libertarian Party’s presidential nomination have condemned the group’s decision to invite Mr. Trump to speak at the gathering. One of them, Jacob Hornberger, called it an “abomination.”…
Oddly–and yet, when you know the background, not so oddly–the Libertarian Party is having Republican Donald Trump speak at their own national convention.https://t.co/Z2WZCiv7dJ
"Libertarians picked Trump to headline their convention. Then an internal revolt erupted."
— Mark Pitcavage (@egavactip) May 7, 2024
Message to RatF*cKer Jr: Get offa our street corner, ho!…
Per the Washington Post, “Libertarians picked Trump to headline their convention. Then an internal revolt erupted”:
…The choice to have the presumptive nominee from another party speak at the Libertarian Party’s nominating convention has inflamed growing schisms within the minor party. State and local factions, presidential candidates and critics of the right-wing caucus that controls the party are registering their anger with Trump’s planned appearance. Over the weekend, the party’s leadership debated disinviting Trump from the Washington convention after the treasurer motioned to reverse course, with dissenters arguing there should be a vote over allowing Trump to attend “when over half of the membership is up in arms,” according to emails The Washington Post reviewed.
National committee Chair Angela McArdle told The Post that the dissent has come from “a small, noisy faction,” and the rancor will not change her plans.
“I can certainly understand that there are a handful of people allergic to relevance, afraid to confront their political opposition, afraid of losing control of the narrative,” she said, “but in 50-plus years, the Libertarian Party has never been on the main stage politically, and this is an incredible opportunity for us to bring someone who grabs the spotlight and put them on our stage.”…
Trump’s participation in the party’s national convention is a first — no current or former president has spoken at the event. It comes at a time when Democrats and Republicans worry that third-party candidates might sway an expected close contest in November. (Libertarian candidates have typically attracted small shares of the presidential vote, but in a close race between Trump and President Biden, even a single-digit percentage showing can be significant to the outcome.)
Trump said in a statement that he aims to appeal to Libertarian voters who share his goal of defeating Biden. And McArdle said the speech will attract attention the party needs as it has seen a recent downturn in its membership rolls and coffers….
But Chase Oliver, Lars Mapstead, Jacob Hornberger and Mike ter Maat, who are all seeking the Libertarian Party’s presidential nomination, told The Post they worried Trump’s presence at the convention might be seen as their party’s endorsement of his candidacy.
“Could you imagine if the Republican National Committee invited me to come be a main speaker at the convention,” Mapstead said. “It seems ridiculous, right?”
Hornberger called it “an abomination.”
“People have come to perceive that Libertarian Party as right-wing, and he will just be reinforcing that image,” Hornberger said…
Divisiveness within the national committee leadership spilled into public view after the announcement of Trump’s speech at the convention, when Treasurer Todd Hagopian motioned to rescind the invite, a move supported by leaders in southern regions, according to emails The Post reviewed.
“Grow a pair, Todd,” wrote back Adrian Malagon, chair of the Libertarian Party of California…
McArdle also faces a lawsuit from Libertarian National Committee member Beth Vest, who filed a case Friday that argues McArdle has unilaterally taken action violating the party’s bylaws, although the complaint doesn’t explicitly mention the Trump invitation.
“People are terribly upset,” Vest said. “I know very few party insiders, except the few that are connected to this caucus and to [McArdle], who think this is a good idea.”…
bobbo
Rooting for injuries, as the kids say
bjacques
I think this is a capital idea. The ghosts of Ludwig von Mises and the entire Austrian School told me so, over Café Viennoise and sachertorte
Baud
They should invite the Green Party candidate to the debate too.
Jay
PPV Cage Match?
Barney
“in 50-plus years, the Libertarian Party has never been on the main stage politically, and this is an incredible opportunity for us to bring someone who grabs the pussy”
oops, sorry …
“…spotlight and put them on our stage.”
Yes, McArdle (any relation to the hopeless Megan?), you’ve never been on the main stage, and attaching yourself to a rapist and giving him the chance to grab your … votes will ensure you never will be. You’ll just be a cheerleader who is despised by the bulk of Trump’s fanatics.
Baud
“Why Democrats lack to courage to invite Trump to speak to their convention.” /NYT op/ed
Geminid
I will credit the Libertarian Party with one good deed: in Georgia’s 2020 Senate race between incumbent David Perdue and Jon Ossoff, Libertarian Shane Hazel polled ~180,000 votes, just enough to keep Perdue below 50% and force the runoff that Ossoff won.
Democrats really needed that seat. Joe Biden’s 1st term would look very different had Perdue won that November.
HumboldtBlue
One of you old timers was talking about how now that you’re retired, it’s time to try some weed again.
Just know, the world is different, and the weed is different.
MagdaInBlack
I’m trying to imagine a more incomprehensible display of pure nonsense than a debate between Trump and RFK Jr and I cannot.
ryk
Wikipedia says Angela McArdle is a craniosacral therapist and a Russophile. Sometimes it seems like Putin is behind every nut job in this country.
MagdaInBlack
@HumboldtBlue: 🤗🤗
My painter at work once said to me ” Broke with weed is a whole different animal than broke with no weed.” 😉
Jay
@MagdaInBlack:
Brain worm vs Dementia,
Like Alien vs Predator.
Baud
I’ve always theorized that about 10% of people who consider themselves libertarian are actually libertarian, and the rest are basically Republicans who are posing.
JPL
@Geminid: Imagine where the economy would be if Perdue won.
Baud
@MagdaInBlack:
“I ask you again, Mr. Trump. Did you take the vaccine?”
MagdaInBlack
@Baud: Response being unintelligible defensive non-answer babble rant
Eta: I have the best words. 🙂
West of the Rockies
Christ, a contest to see whose voice can make people self-immolate or tear off their own ears first.
Baud
@West of the Rockies:
But enough about Eurovision.
Joey Maloney
Ain’t no clown shoes big enough, with apologies to Marvin Gaye, Miss Ross, and all of Motown.
TBone
@HumboldtBlue: no more seeds! Nary a one!
Ned F
@MagdaInBlack:
That was a Freewheelin’ Franklin quote from around 1970.
“Dope will get you through times of no money than money will get you through times of no dope”
OzarkHillbilly
Yep, just using the Lib Party as cover. “I’ve got principles!”
Snarki, child of Loki
I, for one, look forward to the Libertarian Party leading the way in the push for “open carry, with copious alcohol and weed” at Prez nominating conventions.
It’s objectively good for the country.
Ken
Everyone, keep quiet about the “everything Trump touches dies” meme. Let the Libertarian leadership find out for themselves.
Marmot
So, Chase Oliver, Lars Mapstead, Jacob Hornberger, Mike ter Maat, and a McArdle?
Why do Libertarians have such Libertarian names?
Baud
@Marmot:
They choose them in their naming ceremonies.
Ken
@Marmot: They’re perfectly normal names on their home planet.
Uncle Cosmo
@MagdaInBlack: In words of two generations back, courtesy of The Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers**:
** Phineas, Franklin and Fat Freddy. IIRC this bon mot was Franklin’s.
ETA: Scooped by Ned F @21 supra, damnittohell…
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Baud:
Every self-professed glibertarian is an Embarrassed Republican. I knew some Cole-like people who finally gave up on modern ‘Murkin conservatism around when Cole did. The others who gave up simply shifted to glibertarianism either then or finally when the Orange Fart Cloud became the nominee in 16. They exude holier-than-thouness thinking voting that way actually changes anybody’s perception of them.
NorthLeft
Love this idea. Sure, give Deadbeat Donald another chance to expose his bigotry, stupidity, and ignorance, not to mention his impaired mental state in front of an increasingly irrelevant group of people.
Marmot
@Baud: Awesome.
@Ken: Awesome.
lowtechcyclist
@Uncle Cosmo:
The Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers! Ah, the memories…
TS
From the NYT link
The worm has definitely made inroads into the brain
Sid
@HumboldtBlue:
You can say that again.
I was a daily weed smoker through much of my youth, but for family and (mostly) professional reasons weaned myself entirely for most of my adulthood.
A couple years ago, at the funeral of a family member and contemporary of mine who never stopped smoking, I joined a circle of friends and other family members passing around joints, without my factoring in the increased potency. I spent the next couple hours (some of it behind the wheel of the car) having what can best be described as a mild psychedelic experience (my past self also had a familiarity with LSD, mushrooms, and a couple of peyote trips).
SiubhanDuinne
@Marmot:
@Baud:
@Ken:
You’re forgetting Todd Hagopian and Adrian Malagon.
Soapdish
@Baud: Not original but still true; a Libertarian is just a Republican that likes to smoke pot.
Marmot
@SiubhanDuinne: So awesome.
Scout211
RFK,jr’s brain worm was interviewed on SNL Weekend Update last night. It was mostly just silly but worth a few laughs.
JML
@Soapdish: It’s so true. modern “libertarians” are mostly just bros who want to smoke pot and not pay taxes.
The reality is Libertarianism just isn’t a functioning ideology in the modern world. Society is far too interconnected for it to really work, and the only people that will do well are the wealthy. It’s been attractive to a lot of people in rural areas who think that they’re most burdened by government and don’t really get anything from it (something the Libertarian Party certainly promotes), but it’s based on lies and their communities would be in desperate straits if they actually enacted these platforms. (total collapse of schools, rampant poverty, roads completely going to shit, etc.)
But if the Libertarians and GOP want to have any kind of a rock fight, I’ll just sit here and root for injuries.
B1naryS3rf
Oh noes. Perceived as right wing, they whinge. I wonder if it has anything to do with folks who have three active brain cells across the nation correctly perceiving that only money talks and bullshit walks if you don’t have an actual government counter balancing robber barons? Nah.
CaseyL
@Soapdish:
But pot is legal now in a lot of (most?) states, so the adage needs to be updated: A Libertarian is a Republican who… um…ah…
I got nothin’.
The GOP and the Libertarian Party are indistinguishable at this point. The only “liberties” Libertarians care about are not paying taxes and having a lot of guns. Same as the GOP. Libertarians love oligarchs, same as the GOP.
Maybe Glibs just want to seem edgy and “independent.”
Like the Greens, except that Glibs will vote for the GOP candidate, whereas Greens will not vote for the Democrat.
Another Scott
I think that I voted libertarian a time or two, back in the mists of time.
Even back then, when I was too pure to make a real choice, I would have thought that inviting another party nominee was insane.
🤡 🤡 🤡
Maybe they should invite VVP for balance…
Cheers,
Scott.
O. Felix Culpa
@JML: Re Libertarianism:
Fixt. :-)
Miss Bianca
@MagdaInBlack: Or as Fabulous Furry Freak brother Phineas put it years ago: “Dope will get through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no dope.”
ETA: I sit corrected: it *was* Franklin, not Phineas!
trnc
@Geminid:
Thanks for the reminder.
Shalimar
@TS: He assumes all Biden voters would have no choice but to vote for him because they hate Trump so much. A lot of us would consider suicide as a 3rd choice if those were the only options for humanity.
artem1s
Once again the complaint against TIFG is that he says the quiet parts out loud. “Libertarians” have come to perceive they are an actual party when their leadership who clearly are working in lockstep with the GOP to disrupt challengers to the GOP’s nominee. They’ve been doing this since Buchanan co-opted the remnants of the Perot party by declaring himself their candidate even after they had nominated someone else. He was tasked to neutralize them so W wouldn’t have to contend with them in 2000.
After a bitter fight, Pat Buchanan secured the Reform Party’s presidential nomination over John Hagelin of the Natural Law Party. Hagelin and an anti-Buchanan faction walked out and held a separate convention across the street, where they nominated Hagelin as the party’s presidential candidate. The dispute went to the courts and the FEC decided that Buchanan was the legitimate nominee and awarded him $12.6 million in campaign funds.
The GOP has clearly been colluding with third parties ever since. Ron Paul had no interest in being President. Catching that car would mean losing out on federal campaign dollars. They are all a grift (read the article – guess whose first campaign as a candidate with the Reform Party?). The ‘Libertarians’ who invited TIFG are just saying the quiet parts out loud just like he does. If we are really lucky he’ll take down the GOP and Libertarians and over turn Citizen’s United. All these third way parties are nothing but grift machines – any reform of federal election laws has to deal with the obvious corruption and misuse of campaign money that goes on in these campaigns.
JAFD
@Miss Bianca: ‘Twas, of course, a takeoff on the original Polish proverb,
“Food will got you thru times of no money, better than money will get you thru times with no food.”
Happy Mothers’ Day to all the mothers in Jackaldom !
sab
@JML: My extremely wealthy RWNJ brother is a libertarian so you must be wrong. He likes paved roads a lot.
wjca
Probably a dead thread, but I have to ask: What percentage of voters who consider themselves Republicans are actually libertarians, who made a tactical decision to infiltrate an existing major party, rather than trying to replace one? I’m betting it’s a bigger percentage of a larger number.
wjca
A Libertarian is a Republican who dispises the Christianists’ desire to tell everyone else how to live. With government force.
Tehanu
With two vetted examples, it’s time to officially change “McArdle” to “McAddled.”
Teofilo Gray
It’s interesting that Robert F. Kennedy Jr. challenged Trump to a debate at the Libertarian convention. With the 2024 presidential election coming up, it would be fascinating to see how both candidates address their records and plans for the future. What do you think?