Please please please let this story have legs.
“I’ve never heard anything like this in the entire history of every controversy I’ve ever known about with the United States Supreme Court.” Rachel Maddow reacts to a NYT report that an upside-down flag, a symbol of Stop The Steal, flew over Justice Alito’s house after Jan. 6. pic.twitter.com/TKb0FNumjm
— Alex Wagner Tonight (@WagnerTonight) May 17, 2024
half a h/t to Jackie because she sent me a TikTok from Facebook and I tracked it down on twitter. The part where Rachel gets really serious is around 2 minutes, 18 seconds.
Gradually and then suddenly? We can only hope.
Oh, and if you want something soothing and uplifting watch this. I can’t recall who posted the link in a post earlier today.
Open thread.
*found the cartoon on twitter but also had it sent to me by TBone, so another half h/t for her! You know what they say, half a h/t here, half a h/t there, pretty soon you’re talking about real hat tips!
War for Ukraine Day 814: The Russian Bombardments Continue
WaterGirl
Oh, and we had a brand-new angel come forward with a $500 match!
So then next $461.12 cents in the thermometer will be matched. (4x)
At that point, all matches are over! (We have $1,500 coming in angel matches to the thermometer + $2,500 angel match check.
Shorter WG: When the thermometer hits $21,000, we are really at $25,000. (Unless one of the angels sneaks their money in first.)
Geoduck
Has anybody said why this is boiling up now, after four years?
WaterGirl
@Geoduck: That’s an excellent question. I’ll be interested in seeing the answer.
AJ of the Mustard Search and Rescue Team
@WaterGirl: thank you for so persistently and enthusiastically leading our fundraising!
I was thinking earlier today if (when!) this new job settles in I’ll be able to donate for democracy again, whooo!!
WaterGirl
@AJ of the Mustard Search and Rescue Team: That will be reason #15 for you to celebrate the new gig. :-)
Scout211
BY DAHLIA LITHWICK AND MARK JOSEPH STERN
The Smallest Justice Who Ever Lived
It’s a long commentary but well worth a read.
Gvg
I don’t really see the big deal. Unfortunately I have heard of lots of people doing the upside down flag for silly political reasons. They weren’t important people, just random people with no sense of proportion who decided something they disagreed on was hugely important. They mostly get labeled kooks. Some of them the Sovereign citizen type but almost anything can seem very important to someone.
That Alito or his wife are kind of fools and kooks shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone really. I’d laugh if we could just get him off the court. It’s pathetic. It’s not actually a crime though. Giving money to armed traitors or taking money from people with cases before the court are actual crimes and stories. It’s not a significant story IMO.
moops
Methinks the Alitos have been a bit more open and in-your-face with their neighbors over the years to have the c-word thrown at them at that point in the story.
I think they are lying. The flag went up well after J6. In fact, it went up during Trump’s second impeachment. A time when most of the nation thought Trump was toxic and the GOP was wavering in their slavish love of him. It was no longer about a stolen election….it was about saving Trump from the consequences of his actions.
Chet Murthy
@Gvg: I think the big deal is that Justice Alito (spit) is literally one of the nine most powerful people in the country. For him to decide that the 2020 election was stolen, and to advertise that fact, is the same as for him to join in sedition. A high government official must not commit such acts. He’s not just your ordinary Joe.
ETA: I mean, I’m sure he swore and oath that is in direct conflict with his support for Stop The Steal.
ETA2: Also though, yes I do understand that he’s a fucking traitor in his heart. Nevertheless, the *forms* demand that he keep that bottled-up, that he doesn’t fly his freak flag high. He couldn’t even be bothered to comply with the *forms* of our democracy.
WaterGirl
@moops: All these rogue SC justices need to be taken down a notch. And by notch, I mean much more than a notch.
No, you guys are not god.
WaterGirl
@Chet Murthy: Totally agree!
Chet Murthy
@WaterGirl: As they say, we need 14 more Justices. Pack the damn court.
bbleh
I kinda have to laugh at how Maddow keeps working hard to stay reasonable, to stay consistent with facts and norms — judicial and journalistic — and generally to keep from going on a rant.
Imagine how a Fox commentator would sound in a parallel situation. Imagine the righteous thunder, and the sweeping, excoriating invective.
Not suggesting she should have done that, but the GLARINGLY OBVIOUS contrast is notable.
@Gvg: the difference being, he is a fking SUPREME COURT JUSTICE. He’s not some neighborhood gomer. The political viability of the Court, and indeed of the entire Judiciary, DEPENDS on a public perception that judges will be unbiased in their rulings. That’s why the code of behavior, which also applies to SC Justices, specifically forbids ANY such overt displays of sentiment or bias. It’d be fine for Average Citizen MAGA Guy, but it’s utterly — utterly! — inexcusable for even a District-level judge, let alone a fkin SC Justice!
Along with the behavior of the Orange Guy, and of today’s leading Congressional Republicans like MTG, this is just more evidence of how deeply depraved the current Republican Party — with the enthusiastic or at least tacit support of all its voters — has become.
Another Scott
Symbols matter, a lot. Simple messages matter, a lot.
Will have legs? We’ll see.
Meanwhile, … GovExec.com:
(Emphasis added.)
The past isn’t even past. Agreements don’t mean anything. Settled law isn’t settled law.
It’s all Calvinball with these guys.
We have to vote the monsters out.
Grr…,
Scott.
Jay
@moops:
and it would have been a bigger story,……
at the time, but the FTFNYT did a Pecker “Catch and Kill” on it.
TS
@Gvg:
When he is openly siding with those committing insurrection, while ruling on whether or not trump is above the law – I would think it was a massive deal – but maybe I don’t fully understand the situation.
I can be onside with the “fuck trump” crowd but I have zero chance of ever having any influence in regard to the law in the USA. I don’t live there, can’t vote there & am in no position to lobby there (unlike the RW ex Prime Minister of Australia, who also doesn’t live there, can’t vote there, but loves to visit trump and get their pictures plastered all over the news media)
Alito has MASSIVE influence in the law and politics of the USA which he uses to support his own beliefs and causes.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Gvg:
I understand where you are coming from but the right would be coming unglued if it was Joe Biden that had flown the flag upside down. So let’s just go with “This shows horrible judgment and Alito should resign” and quit finding excuses for the other side to hide behind.
I’m really not inclined to give a single conservative the benefit of the doubt these days. Why should I voluntarily ‘disarm’ our side by excusing their conduct?
Fuck’em.
patrick II
First. Mrs. Alito took a neighbor’s poster as “personal”. Did it say something like “Mrs. Alito has a mustache?” or some other insult to Mrs. Alito? If it was an anti-Trump sign that is not a personal insult to Mrs. Alito.
Second, Alito: It was just a short time. But neighbors said it flew upside down for several days.
Third, Mr. Alito, defender of Biblical paternalism, can’t you control your wife?
Quinerly
@Scout211: glad you posted this.
I was just coming to this thread to see if anyone had linked to it.
Scout211
@Chet Murthy: Seconded.
If Alito had any sense at all underneath that holier-than-thou sense of entitlement, he would have responded by saying something like, “It was an inadvertent mistake that took several days for us to recognize. Once we became aware of it we took it down and rehung it properly. We regret the error.”
You know, a made up statement straight from the PR department like all those people of power do these days. But his response was so defensive and divisive and political that it made it so much worse and so telling.
bbleh
@WaterGirl: The SC/Judiciary is by design the weakest of the 3 branches. They have no army and no independent source of funding, and they are subject to removal. But when, as now, the political branches are entirely or in part paralyzed, they can do what they want, constrained only by their professional and personal ethics. And ol’ Sammy — along with his buddies Clarence and Made Man John and occasionally others — is doin’ what he wants.
smith
As much as we fret over the prospect of absolute presidential immunity, we need to fret about the present reality of absolute SCOTUS immunity.
Chet Murthy
@smith: I know there are big differences, but it’s difficult not to compare them to Iran’s Guardian Council.
rekoob
When my father retired from his litigation practice, he was approached by a local judge to be a *substitute* judge in General District Court in Virginia, the lowest court of record. He was not appointed by the legislature, but he observed he was subject to the Hatch Act:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatch_Act
and therefore stopped all campaigning for Democrats, as was his inclination. After he died, my mother refused to campaign or contribute, or even answer polling questions, in memory of her husband (if asked for an explanation, she’d say, “I’m subject to the Hatch Act”). I didn’t dispute it, though we had many conversations about how Dad would have wished we could have done more. I respect their integrity.
smith
@Chet Murthy: If the Opus Dei faction on the court gets its way, those differences will be minute.
Jackie
Thanks WaterGirl! I just raised the subject re Rachel Maddow. You found the non FB link😊
Another Scott
Luppe Luppen generally seems to have a decent head on his shoulders when it comes to public opining. (I haven’t read his recent book.)
Someone else noted that neither of the Alitos have explained why she (or they) thought flying the flag upside down was an appropriate response to a neighbor’s actions that they didn’t like.
If someone puts themselves, or is put by their spouse, in the public eye on a controversial topic directly related to their position of public trust, then, yeah, more investigation can be and probably is warranted. Alito is a disgrace and the country will be better off when he’s gone. If this helps that happen, so much the better.
Grr…,
Scott.
Jackie
@Odie Hugh Manatee: 101% agree!
Chacal Charles Calthrop
@bbleh: I agree, and I’m going to offer a parallel example.
During the Gilded Age, the Supreme Court routinely struck down any & all measures designed to help the proletariat; 1905 Lochner v. NY is the key case, in which the mere fact that an employer found a worker who was willing to come to court to swear he’d work more than 60 hours a week was enough to strike down a law capping the work week at 60 hours. The law protected people’s freedom, as the court reasoned, and the freedom to work as many hours as one wished was more congruent with the Constitution than any concept of social welfare (of course this was also the era of legalized Jim Crow; but then, wasn’t slavery legal during the Revolution?)
One of the responses to this belief that the law protected people’s right to exploit property more than the health & safety of people themselves was anarchism. The anarchists that bombed Wall Street also subscribed to the idea that law could not protect anything other than someone’s “right” and “freedom” to make money, saying, that if that was the law, then let’s do away with the law.
The Communist revolution in Russia & the New Deal, by doing away with the idea that all laws were unconstitutional if not explicitly allowed by the Constitution, put an end to this line of thinking.
The current crop of Federalist stooges are reviving it.
Carlo Graziani
I have this impossible fantasy: the Federal insurrection case comes up for appeal at the Supreme Court, and the Solicitor General declares, in oral argument, that Alito’s failure to recuse himself casts doubt on the validity and propriety of the present judicial proceeding, and, consequently, that the Executive will not regard itself as bound by any decision issued by the Court unless Alito recuses himself.
No idea what the sequel would be. But it would certainly put the cat among the pigeons.
Chet Murthy
@Carlo Graziani: I’ll take a hit of that acid, and add that in my fantasy, the Solicitor General should insist that both Alito and Thomas recuse. And I get a pony.
Ksmiami
@WaterGirl: I want them stripped of power and run out on a rail. I want to crush them before they destroy our country. And I want to bring back fucking tar and feathering for these jokers.
Turgidson
Given all the batshit stuff we’ve already seen disappear down the memory hole in recent years, I doubt this makes much of a dent.
Ksmiami
@bbleh: shut it down, turn off the lights and the A/C. This Court has run amok and needs to be reined in. Starting with impeachment and removal of Thomas and Alito and then the judges appointed by the Orange sfb traitor.
moops
That the Alito family just thinks they can sink to the level of the rest of the population and openly be dickwads.
There will be no direct consequences for this behavior. I mean, nobody can lay a hand on him or threaten his position or stop how he hands down rulings. But this should be the end of savvy jackasses telling us how special and wise and non-partisan these assholes are.
Ksmiami
@moops: Disagree. I see a very near future when Blue states start disregarding the SC decisions. That’s the problem when institutions lose authority. This Court is over, finished. They just don’t know it yet.
moops
The Alito’s, trashier than a small town Sheriff. Actually, 98% of small town Sheriff’s would not be this hugely unpatriotic and seditious at that time in the time line.
piratedan
Trying to handle the context of the actions and reconcile it with the dates when it occurred.
Jan 6th happened live on our television sets, we watched it all unfold with thousands of people rushing the Capitol, listened to the blow by blow as the Capitol was breached and heard the stories of MOC running for their lives when they were not in mortal fear of their lives, people lost their lives, insurrectionists and Capitol Police. This is the setting, we watched in shock as Trump flags approached the Capitol.
This lady, thru whatever justification, knowing who she was married to, flew her flag like this for two weeks. Considering the amount of time it was flown, we can only assume that the justice supported her display or was oblivious to it (yeah, right). Considering his tenure on the highest court in the land, I would say that these actions amply indicate his position about the events of that day and would at a minimum require him to recuse.
As for our media just getting around to having this come to light further illustrates that we, as consumers, have to either ditch these institutions that have failed us or demand that they do better. Since we’re almost three and a half years post those events and we have the SCOTUS weighing the ludicrous notion that Presidential Immunity is a “thing” regardless of the offenses committed, I’d have to say that they’ve proven themselves of acting as an impartial 4th estate and we as consumers and citizens have to start supporting those organizations that do so.
I will add one observation, when one side of the ledger is so corrupt and so disingenuous, how the hell can you not have an organization that will be perceived as having a liberal bias. My answer to that is to stop being a bunch of lying evil shits and start telling the truth and get back to us after a couple of decades to restore your integrity.
moops
So, we’re pretty sure the NYT was fed this story at the time….and then just never reported a single word about it?
That seems problematic.
Was everyone sitting on this story? what the hell. Did ProPublica have this story? Was some journalist sitting on this until they could get their book published?
Aussie Sheila
@Chet Murthy:
My thoughts exactly regarding the similarity of the USSC and the Iranian Supreme Guardian Council. It’s an affront for any Democracy to permit any Court, no matter how high, to flout the norms and ethics of the wider society which it assists in regulating through its interpretation of its laws. Frankly it’s gob smacking that there isn’t more of an uproar about it.
These palookas have lifetime tenures and are immune from every enforceable regulation binding on the rest of the public service officers employed by the US government.
This is intolerable. The Courts in a liberal democracy exist to assist in the preservation of the peace and tranquility of the polity. The USSC is failing in this.
I await with interest what US Senate Democrats propose be done about this affront to democracy. Apart from calling for the election of Democratic Senators, that is.
While that outcome is to be fervently wished for, we all know that there will probably never again be 60 Dem Senators. So what is the plan?
Melancholy Jaques
@Gvg:
The argument that it has to be a crime for it to be wrong is missing the point of judicial ethics and due process.
Another Scott
@moops:
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
Chet Murthy
@Aussie Sheila:
I had to re-read your comment in order to notice “60 Dem Sens”. Yes indeed. Far past time to ditch the filibuster, and if they don’t, then we’ll need to turf out some Dem Sens along with the G(r)OPers. Sigh.
Aussie Sheila
@Chet Murthy:
My point was there will likely never be 60 Dem Senators. But hopefully they will hold a slim majority next year again. I just saw Blumenthal picking and choosing his words carefully on one of those cable shows about what can be done. Apparently, if you listen carefully, nothing except electing Democratic Senators so that the next vacancy won’t be filled by Republicans.
Beyond useless.
Chet Murthy
@Aussie Sheila: That *is* useless. They need to ditch the filibuster and pack the damn Court.
AJ of the Mustard Search and Rescue Team
@Carlo Graziani: it’s exactly what very would do (McConnell basically already did it). And it’s worth serious considering.
We’ve got too stop for unilaterally disarming.
Aussie Sheila
@Chet Murthy:
Well yes, we agree. But we don’t hold elective office in the US. The Democratic Party does. It is that Party, its activists, functionaries and elected representatives that must take action. I am not holding my breath.
I can see clearly now how the GOP always seems to run rings around elected Democratic Party representatives. It’s disheartening from here. But in the US it should be a ‘teachable moment’ as they say.
cmorenc
If the Alitos did actually have an aggressively confrontational liberal nearby neighbor planting “Fuck Trump” signs easily visible to the Alitos, wouldn’t have said neighbor have noticed the upside-down flag flying from the Alitos house contemporaneously with J6, looked into the possible intended symbolry if they didn’t aleady know, and be highly motivated to inform repoters at the Washington Post? I call bullshit on Alito.
piratedan
In other news, I’m reading reports that the State of Arizona process servers finally tracked Rudy Guilliani down and have served him his papers.
Mai Naem mobile
Dick Durbin is going on about reinstating the blue slip rule. WTF? I really like Dick Durbin but honestly he seems like a lot of times he’s got his head in the sand.
Alito’s statement was a little weird. He blamed it on ‘Mrs Alito.’ Who calls their wife Mrs Alito. Wouldn’t you say my wife or Martha Ann? I can’t think of anybody I know IRL who would refer to their wife as Mrs X.
Aussie Sheila
@Mai Naem mobile:
Senator Durban’s proposed actions should see him primaried by the official Democratic Party apparatus in his state. This beyond parody by now.
Jackie
@piratedan: 😂👍🏻😂
Steeplejack
@Chet Murthy:
Well said.
Martin
So, I was a public sector employee, in an at-times fairly visible job.
A lot of us, and I’m FAR from the only one who did this, spent our entire careers living the values that our job entailed. I made decisions regarding your kid getting into college or not. You can go back through the entire time I’ve posted here back to the Bush admin, even under my anonymous nym, and you won’t find a single post where I made a judgement as to who was undeserving of going to college.
It’s simply not possible to have a personal judgement about these things outside of work and then just ‘turn it off’ once you clock in. So if you are going to do the job, especially if it’s for life, you have to live the values of the job. And that’s why this is a big deal. It’s not about being a Republican or Democrat – that’s fine – it’s about whether you respect the rule of law or not when you are a judge. And you can’t express a lack of respect outside of work and then show up and the office and be the standard bearer of the concept. It’s completely disqualifying.
Chet Murthy
@Martin: Lots of workplaces have rules like this, and we all get used to living within those rules. That this scumbucket Alito thinks he’s above the rules ….. is the problem.
Aussie Sheila
@Martin:
Thank you. You are right.
Iheld a political appointment (not elective) in an administration in my country. I was responsible for the management of a Minister’s Office. Even though I was a political supporter of said Minister’s Party I ensured that everyone in that Office especially myself, conducted ourselves in a manner befitting functionaries in a democracy. That is, properly and in accordance with all legislative, regulative and ethical norms.
This imperative goes double and triple for Judicial Officers.
HumboldtBlue
mrmoshpotato
@HumboldtBlue: Excellent, and fuck ’em!
karen marie
@moops: The NYT couldn’t figure out how to create an equivalent scandal for a prominent jurist appointed by a Dem, so they were forced to suppress it. Only fair, right?
TBone
@Aussie Sheila: I saw that. I was like, really??? Vote harder is your response? WTF.
NotMax
Swirling down the memory hole by next week.
Aussie Sheila
@TBone:
Someone needs to give Dem Senators some lessons in dissembling more successfully. I could see and hear what he was saying 20,000ks and a day away from his ruminations.
There needs to be a plan. But first, win the Senate. And next, stop sending poor dissemblers onto Cable tv watched by US liberals. You either disarm them or demoralise them. Either way it’s a bad look.
sab
@TBone: I believe Australia has sort of mandatory voting, like fines if you don’t vote. Very different from the USA you can only vote if you are rich and white or if you jump through many hurdles to be registered to vote and get to the polls.
sab
2 am . Blogsite almost tricked me into multiple posting of a comment. Ha. I didn’t fall for it.
JaySinWA
@sab: Tricksy blogsite bad.
Aussie Sheila
@sab:
Yes we have compulsory voting. The fine for not voting is $25 as I found out when I inadvertently forgot to ensure my mother received her ballot when she was in a nursing home. I am in favour of compulsory voting, which incidentally was introduced by a Conservative administration that was worried about the success of rural unions here being able to mobilise their members to vote.
But even more than that, I favour universal voter registration, an independent Electoral Commission that administers elections far away from any elected official, federal, state or local, and preferential voting for all elected Offices.
I am also opposed to the election of judicial officers of any kind and the election of any official charged with the administrative functions of the State. That is the kind of ‘separation of powers’ that actually assists in stemming corruption and in promoting actual, as opposed to theoretical, democracy.
sab
@JaySinWA: I just realized that 2 am EDT is only 11 pm western time zone and probably early evening in Hawaii and mid-afternoon in Australia. So tricksy blogsite being tricksy is even worse. Grr.
sab
@Aussie Sheila: I totally agree. Ohio’s hack of a Secretary of State wants to block Biden from our ballot this fall because our Convention is too late on the calendar. This “issue” has come up mutliple times for both parties and was always easily resolved, but this year our heavily gerrymandered legislature cannot rise to the occasion.
Ohio is now very Republican so Trump will win here anyway, but they somehow feel the need to cheat.
sab
@Aussie Sheila: The alternative to electing judiciary is what? Governor appointing is a worse option. How do Aussies do it?
Jay
@HumboldtBlue:
@mrmoshpotato:
Quite the “sorry, not sorry” BS.
The “what’s the big deal” whinging, “it was only trying to overthrow the Government”.
Aussie Sheila
@sab:
The governing Party in each State and Federal government appoints judges. They do so on the advice of the Attorney General who is also elected. The AGs appoint from distinguished jurists on the next lowest Court and federal judges are appointed from various State Courts. Federal Judges must resign when they turn 70 years old.
sab
@HumboldtBlue: I rarely cheer when anyone goes to prison but I am cheering on this one. Entitled twerp meets the real world.
sab
@Aussie Sheila: Ohio state judges needn’t resign at 70 but they cannot run again at that age. Federal judges are there for life. I do think we need to change that. I just turned 70 and my noggin isn’t what it used to be, and my dad just died of dementia complications at 99. Had he been a federal judge he could have still been presiding well into his demented eighties.
Aussie Sheila
@sab:
When you write ‘run again’ with respect to Ohio State judges, does this mean they are elected? If so, it’s a democratic abomination. Judicial Officers should never, ever be elected. A worse source of corruption has never been invented.
sab
Sam Alito is 74. He has always been an asshole but he used to be more circumspect. That he is losing his discretion suggests to me that he is also losing his marbles.
sab
@Aussie Sheila: They are elected. In Ohio I don’t think it is an abomination. Their election is what has saved us from appalling governor appointments. Off year elections we have elected good people. On year elections when President or governor is on the ballot we get hacks.
ETA The real fuckup was last election. First time ever when we had partisan elections. Judges used to be nominated by partisan primaries, but in November nobody but party nuts knew who were what party. (I always saved notes from the primary.)
Last election first time ever the November ballot showed party affiliation, and the election results were disturbing.
I agree with kay. It is time to move out of state.
Aussie Sheila
@sab:
He may well be losing his marbles. But in any case the Democratic Party needs to have a judicial reform package ready for the next time they have the Senate and HoRs. One that goes beyond, ‘vote harder’ directed at hard pressed Dem constituencies.
A little less of the demands directed at their natural base, and a little more political gumption directed at their political enemies might assist in enthusiasm of their base.
At this stage I’m pretty bullish on the Biden/Harris ticket winning in November. The Senate elections are what I’m watching with real palpitations.
sab
@Aussie Sheila: I agree. I live in Ohio and I have a low opinion of my electorate, but even I was shocked when we picked the sociopathic carpetbagger JD Vance over Tim Ryan for Senate. Our Senators may be right or left, but they were rarely obvious sociopaths. Now all they need is an R.
Aussie Sheila
@sab:
You have just stated the problem with elected Judges. No one knew who was what. My points collectively are, the Democratic Party needs to develop a complete overhaul of US democratic institutions. Obviously I wouldn’t recommend that as a political platform. But nevertheless, the US is running into genuine minority rule problems, and it behoves the only real Democratic Party in that polity to develop a plan, a strategy and political tactics to deliver it. Otherwise a genuine fascist movement beckons there.
That would be terrible for the US obviously but it would also accelerate democratic backsliding everywhere else. It’s unfortunate, but that’s where we are.
sab
@Aussie Sheila: I think the Dark Brandon thing is brilliant. Biden can be his usual polite affable self, and Dark Brandon can be snarky and encouraging to his base.
sab
@Aussie Sheila: We got better judges when we didn’t have partisan labels.
Jay
@sab:
as you note, part of the issue with elected Judicial figures, is it’s often a crap shoot.
Then, as clearly demonstrated, elections can be “bought”.
In Canada, actually, all through out the Commonwealth, we have similar systems for getting Judges. They all have to be vetted, (Lawyer to Judge, Judge to Higher Judge), and not by the Federalist Society. Even our Provincial and Federal AG’s have to be vetted.
Everyone in the Civil Service needs to have the education and reputation commiserant to their job position, from Dog Catcher to Planning Comissioner.
Yes, we still get some turds, but not many, and they don’t last long
No Nikki Haley’s as Dog Catcher.
NotMax
Uh oh. Baked s BIG pan of a favorite slightly sweet concoction, planning to give half of it to someone will be seeing this weekend to take home.
Realized too late I totally forgot to add vanilla extract with the rest of the ingredients. Do have a container of vanilla powder in the spice cabinet; sprinkled that over the top after I removed the pan from the oven, hoping it kind of, sort of makes up for the goof.
C’est la vie.
sab
@Jay: As usual, Canada does it better than USA or Australia. Actual vetting for competence.
I think and hope the Federalist Society blew it badly under Trump. They had no competemce standards at all and proposed some really incompetent hacks, including Judge Cannon. It may serve their short term partisan purposes, but meanwhile real people with real legal issues will have to be living with idiot judges for decades.
sab
@NotMax: I had no idea vanilla powder even existed.
NotMax
@sab
Don’t drag it out often but comes in handy from time to time.
There’s a copious amount of cinnamon in the recipe. Fingers crossed that will prove toothsome enough on its own?
;)
Aussie Sheila
@Jay:
Australia has a similar system. It’s our common UK Parliamentary heritage I suppose. The US suffers from being the first Constitutional Republic in the world, apart from France. Unlike France, their fledging Republic once won couldn’t be invaded by Monarchical continental powers, unlike France, which had to contend with reactionary governments and their armies for two centuries.
However the US suffers from ‘being there first’ syndrome. In fact it hadn’t been a real democracy until the Voting Rights Act and Civil Rights Act of 1965. I remember reading and watching on TV these legislative milestones from my girls boarding school in Sydney.
I was gobsmacked. It had never occurred to me that such rights necessitated a special law. That was the beginning of my own political awakening.
As for vetting for competence, once a judge has attained a Court of Appeals appointment, it is reasonable to assume they are competent, particularly when you consider that such federal judges are selected from recommendations from State governments representing a variety of political persuasions.
MagdaInBlack
@NotMax: I think the vanilla powder is an excellent touch/solution.
@sab: Some people ( not me) like it on or in coffee. I do like it sprinkled on hot chocolate.
NotMax
@sab
Found in some of the better markets. Also on Amazon.
NotMax
@MMagdaInBlack
Thank you. Makes me feel more secure about gifting it.
sab
@Aussie Sheila: Agree. We were first at this republican democracy thing and didn’t always know what we were doing. Everyone since has done it differently.
Funny thing is Canada got it’s self government after our Civil War, and seeing our fuckup they went the other way and tried to be very centrally governed. But that didn’t actually fit their political needs (big diverse country, small population spread out across a continent) so it quickly adjusted to the provincially centered country it is now.
Different countries need different governments.
MagdaInBlack
@NotMax: You’ll be taste testing it yourself first, of course 😉
NotMax
@MagdaInBlack
“You betchum, Red Ryder.”
Tomorrow. Gobbled too much din-din tonight.
;)
sab
@MagdaInBlack: I sprinkle maple sugar a lot, but I am not a big fan of sugar, so vanilla powder would be a good alternative.
Jay
@Aussie Sheila:
Here, once they are Judges, they get an annual performance review from the Law Society and a panel of other Judges. Advocates both for and against can write in to testify in that review.
As a result, they have to stay up to speed on the law, case law, social norms, etc, as befits a Colonialist, misogynist, homophobic and racist society that is trying to evolve.
Sanctions range from having to take mandatory courses and programs, (and pass them), to being removed from the bench.
sab
King Arthur has vanilla powder.
For some reason the King Arthur name reminded me that I had a brilliant idea for husband’s birthday gift in June that I have since forgotten. King Arthur name jogged my memory that I had an idea but not what it was. And probably not King Arthur related because husband rarely cooks and never bakes.
Such a puzzle. I hate getting old and fuddled.
ETA : No it was King Arthur related! He wants an actual cooking scale, not the tired postage scale we are currently using
ETA: I had never known that I needed a candy thermometer until I did. None available locally, so King Arthur it was, and it was excellent.
sab
@Jay: Wow. We need to talk to our legislators.
sab
Re judicial training, fine idea but you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him think.
Aussie Sheila
@Jay:
An excellent system. We don’t have that here, but while conservative justices are obviously appointed by Conservative governments, even I who is very partisan in my politics will accede to the notion that conservative justices are nevertheless competent.
The point I think is that in a Parliamentary system, if a Court hands down a decision that a political Party thinks is partisan or wrong, Parliament can change the law the Court has ruled on.
This means that Parliament ultimately is supreme. While that can be problematic, I prefer a system where the people through their elected representatives make the laws, rather than Judges. My father was a lawyer.
He instilled in me the mantra, Judge made law is always inferior to laws made by the people. I adhere to that principle.
Which is that Parliament and the people are supreme.
Jay
@sab:
Technically, prior to Confederation, (and quite a while after), each British Colony, (NB, NS, NFL, PEI, Quebec, Upper and Lower Canada, BC) was it’s own independent Colony, plus Rupert”s Land,(SA, AB, Yukon, NWT, MT, Labrador, Northern Quebec) ruled by the Hudson’s Bay Company.
Each had their own rules, regulations and “norms”.
So, first a set of rules had to be set up to divide Federal from Provincial rights, rules and responsibilities.
As a result, for example, everywhere but Quebec, workers and employers pay into the Canada Pension Plan. In Quebec, workers and employers pay into the Quebec Pension Plan.
In the division of powers, some areas are hard and fast Federal, some are hard and fast Provincial, some are negotiated agreements, some are currently in conflict.
Jay
@sab:
we have a “third strike” system here for Judges.
Then you get “benched”.
TBone
Heather Cox Richardson gets into this Alito clusterfuck a few paragraphs in, rounding up a boatload of good points from various thinkers. I’d say she is on 🔥 about it, and I love her for it.
heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/may-17-2024
sab
@Jay: I am so old (70) that I remember when Canada finally lost her UK governor and became fully independent. I was in boarding school that year in DC. The Canadian ambassador’s kid was a classmate. We got the Canadian centennial tartan fabric for our winter uniforms because it was cheap that year. I liked it a lot. Nice colors.
ETA We had a slumber party at the Canadian embassy. Ouiji board and some kid went nuts and freaked out. She was from Virgin Islands. Went limp. Passed out completely. Nothing we did. She was nuts. But end of boarders getting to go to slumber parties.
Aussie Sheila
@Jay:
Similar to Australia, except upon Federation in 1901, the States and Federal government each had specific powers and sovereignties. Local government here is a creature of State governments.
The Australian Constitution borrowed heavily from the US, except in the area of individual rights. That has been a blessing.
Since Federation many sovereignties thought to be specifically State have been conceded to the federal government or otherwise shared with the States via funding arrangements.
The lack of ‘individual rights’ in our Constitution has been a blessing because their growth and permanence has been the result of collective action via Parliamentary elections, rather than by the decisions of Judges. The people have ruminated and made their decisions. The Courts merely determine how those laws are to be applied. If their decisions offend the Parliament, Parliament may make other laws.
sab
@Aussie Sheila: And also Jay: I have issues with there having been a British Empire, but as far as governance they have done a lot of good. America was first but not best.
ETA But I do think that, before Trump, your governments sucked every bit as mine during this century.
Aussie Sheila
@sab:
The British Empire was pathetic compared to the liberal universalist one the US constructed after WW2. Not saying the post WW2 one was worse. Just saying it was an Empire nevertheless, and the problem is US liberals just can’t seem to recognise it for what it was. I write ‘was’ because it is no longer what it’s ardent adherents imagine.
sab
@sab: Aussie Sheila: I differ with you on our Bill of Rights. Without it we would still be in the Jim Crow South. Alito wants us back there.
Tony Jay
Wow. A senior jurist sitting in a lifetime appointment to the body that decides what the US Constitution does and does not mean defends flying a flag symbolising his rejection of the current President’s Constitutional authority.
Not surprised the FTFNYT buried the story. It’s evidence for why expanding the Court and changing the rules around lifetime appointments to the SC isn’t just important for Democrats but vital for preserving the Constitution itself.
Hyperbole? Sober assessment? Who can say?
sab
@Aussie Sheila: I love this blog. We have such diffferent views of the same world, which is obvious because on other sides of same planet. Same language but such different points of view. We need to take these points of view out into our own small worlds,
Aissie Sheila: I know this sounds trite but I don’t think it is trite.
Jay
@sab:
Depends,
Under the Tories, sucked,
Under the Lib’s, meh, okay.
Under the Red Tories, meh, okay.
Later Libs got us the Charter of Rights and new Articles of Confederation.
Even Harper wasn’t dumb enough to go back into Iraq.
Lately, the Xaayda have been given full title to Haida Guaii, used to be known as the Queen Charlotte Islands.
I always vote ABC.
Anybody but the Conservative.
sab
America post WWII was a weird aberration in who we were ( Jim Crow South) . I hope we get better, but other than the 1960s our past does not give me much hope.
But I am American born and bred and I will keep plugging away on values I learned in school in the 1960s.
Tony Jay
@sab:
It’s not trite. There’s no good air in a sealed bubble.
sab
@Jay: Tories: UK or Canada? Simce you are Canadian I assume Canadian?
Aussie Sheila
@sab:
Australia never had a Bill of Rights yet interestingly workers have always had more rights here than in the US. Indigenous people didn’t have the same rights to be counted in the national census until 1967, and the same referendum that granted those also permitted the federal government to legislate directly for Indigenous people overriding reactionary State governments to ensure at least a modicum of democratic decency.
Since then Indigenous rights have been a federal government responsibility culminating in the failed Referendum last year to enshrine Indigenous rights to some measure of self determination in our Constitution. That failure had many parents, including, but not limited to the abject failure of our Federal Labour government to properly campaign for the Referendum.
Nevertheless, notwithstanding that political failure I prefer Parliamentary democracy and the rumination of collective democratic activism to rule by the Courts. The USSC is a democratic travesty, made worse by the timidity of the only democratic Party in the US, the Democratic Party.
sab
@Aussie Sheila: We have an older more flawed Constitution. Our Bill of Rights is essesntial for our freedoms. Younger more tolerant constitutions may differ. Our Founders were not sure that long term Representative governments were even possible.
sab
We were first at republican government, and not very good at it. But we were first and ours survived, and all your others came about and survived because our imperfect government was out there as an example.
I am not much of a believer in American exceptionalism, but on democracy being possible I do think we mattered.
Aussie Sheila
@sab:
Why are the Bill of Rights essential to your freedoms? We don’t have one.
I believe the average Australian particularly the average working class Australian has more rights than their equivalent in the US.
The US was the first, but not the last of democratic revolutions in Europe and the Anglo sphere. Unfortunately its education system and general middle brow US centric political commentary hides its almost unique combination of English 17th century political theory with French 18th century political activism.
A baleful heritage when combined with a significant slave economy.
sab
@Aussie Sheila: Brits don’t have a Bill of Rights either, and House of Lords extinguishes rights they thought they had all the time.
Jay
@sab:
Every four years since the mid 80’s, the Con parties, Provincially and Federally change their names. In BC they even changed their name to Liberal Party of BC, (because the one that actually was, went extinct in the early 80’s).
It’s probably to try to fool low information voters away from their past records.
So it’s easier to call them Tories or Cons, than try to use their ever changing party names.
Right now, BC is going into an election year, and we have two Tory or Con Parties, the BC Conservatives and BC United. One party is crazy, the other Trumpian.
They are discussing merging to try to defeat the NDP, and I hope that nobody get’s out of the merger talks alive.
The Dippers, (NDP) have done fairly well over the last 8 years, given the mess they inherited from the Liberals, (Tories), and crisis after crisis, forest fires, floods, climate change, Covid, Logging collapse, Fisheries, (Federal), etc
Pretty much a C, sometimes a C+ but there is a swing to the right.
If the Con’s, Tories, Trumpists win, we are screwed for at least 8 years.
sab
@Aussie Sheila: We started as a slave economy. You didn’t. Bill of Rights (as expanded post Civil War) is part of our Constitution. You didn’t start as a slave economy and then fight a civil war to stop it. We did. We may all speak English but we are not all the same. USA had a more troubled start.
Aussie Sheila
@sab:
Agree the Anglo sphere has many political differences. But maybe, just maybe people could learn from each others successes as well as mistakes? That’s what makes me bang my head about the US. It has been successful in many arenas. In small ‘d’ democracy not so much. But instead of learning from others, your intellectual elites jump to lecturing the world about ‘the oldest democracy in the world’ when educated people everywhere know that the US is far from being the worlds oldest democracy.
sab
@Jay: Didn’t you go twelve years with Conservative Steven Harper?
Jay
@sab:
Yup. 2nd worst 12 years of my life, but even Steven Harper wasn’t dumb enough to go into Iraq a second time
“United Conservatives”. Preston Manning’s bullshit Franken Monster.
That’s when Murkin ReThugs started running the party.
Aussie Sheila
@sab:
I’ll jump in here. When that Ahole was voted out, that Party barely existed in the Canadian Parliament. It was a democratic wipeout.
sab
@Aussie Sheila: It is damn near impossible to change our Constitution, which has many Koch flunkies banging their heads against their walls.
They want a new constitutional convention. Trump’s court appointments may have focused the rest of us on the actual outcomes if that happened.
NYT only cares about Manhatten real estate.Paper of record for Manhatten. Should be irrelevant for the rest of us.
sab
Dawn here. Loud robins.
Aussie Sheila
@sab:
Forget changing your Constitution. Change people’s voting habits.
Jay
@sab:
Early Birds get the worms,………
hopefully, not brain worms.
sab
Jay and Aussie Shiela
I love earing from you. Such different perspectives on democratic government.
sab
@Jay: Robins, otherwise sweet birds, are so fucking loud at dawn.
sab
@sab: earing should have been hearing.
sab
Aussie Sheila: American voting habits might go full Nazi.
ETA Jim Crow taught us that.
Jay
@sab:
When we lived on the property, Robins were the last birds in the dawn chorus. In the summer Hermit Thrush’s started at 4 am. Robin’s started about 6 am after the crow murder flyby at 5:30 am
In the late fall and early spring, the Sandhill Cranes would start in the meadows around 5am.
In the winter, there was no bird song.
There were birds, but they were smart enough not to spend calories on singing.
Aussie Sheila
@sab:
It’s not US voters sending you Nazi. It’s US elites’ reluctance to recognise your peril and refusal to grasp the nettle. And by US elites, I mean the panjandrums of the US Democratic Party who simply cannot or will not call out what is happening, in the Supreme Court and elsewhere. Except for asking the Dem base to vote harder and more often.
sab
@Aussie Sheila: Whover is sending us Nazis, they rule the Republican party.
Jay
@Aussie Sheila:
It’s also the people buying and selling elections, SCOTUS, the MSM, etc.
A whole cabal of villains.
The Democratic Party can only do so much.
Aussie Sheila
@Jay:
Sure. I agree. But Parties are nothing more than collectives of people. It is just such collectives that change history if they have a mind. I’m thinking here of the US Republican Party of the 1850s . Ring a bell?
Chris Johnson
@Scout211: Or, or, hear me out…
It’s an outright lie to cover the fact that Alito and his wife were and are wholly partisan supporting the insurrection, and the flying of such a flag is a known and intentional signal for their insurrection allies to take comfort and encouragement in.
And since it would be inconvenient to outright claim that you, a Supreme Court justice, are in fact an insurrectionist looking to stage a coup upon the country, you depend on your ability to black out the media about it, and then when it comes out anyway you tell an unconvincing and contemptuous lie.
Two openly insurrectionist justices are not a majority. They’re a problem, and the length of time this has been covered up is also a problem, and it’s concerning that the justices who are not themselves insurrectionists are trying to cover up their collective problem lest the whole thing be discarded. I can see why, but they’re still covering it up because it risks their whole system breaking just as they’ve become the apex of it.
Nancy
@AJ of the Mustard Search and Rescue Team: I’m glad about the potential/possible/REAL job offer and inspired by your thoughts of future donations. If you’ve been out of work for a while, you might want to let others carry the weight until you are back on track with bills and savings. You probably know this but I’m saying it anyway. The first few paychecks have a lot of places to go. Happy to read your happier thoughts.
evodevo
@sab: I think the overwhelming success of the abortion ballot initiative – passed in spite of their machinations – freaked them the hell out…
Gvg
@Melancholy Jaques: Everyone outraged seems to think that the upside down flag definitely means they support the propaganda line of stop the steal, after January 6th. My view is that the symbol is much older than that. It has meant a lot of different things, mostly flakey. I have heard of many stories going back decades using that upside down flag. So I just can’t make the jump with sureness automatically.
I also had not heard one Maga or January 6th story that linked that flag before this. Only this story has asserted it as a fact. Which doesn’t mean it didn’t happen before, but I need more evidence.
As for Alito not being impartial, I have evidence. His rulings, his paid speeches, etc. His made up legal reasoning that does not follow precedent. I care about that more than symbols.
I also think he is cognitive decline compared to the past and that’s probably why he is getting in more public fights with the neighbors.
Gvg
@sab: maybe their internal polls say Trump may not win. Democrats need to IMO point out that they republicans are admitting they can’t win a fair election. Make fun of them….unless they think it might motivate discouraged republicans who might stay home….tricky. Can we just point it out to our discouraged voters?
Chris Johnson
@Gvg: Let’s ALSO admit the obvious conclusion that Alito flew that flag to give comfort and support to insurrectionists.
To run around being all like ‘before Jan 6 that symbol has meant other things, for instance if he wasn’t a Supreme Court Justice trying to send a message to fellow insurrectionists but instead he was a captain at sea then it might have meant something other than what it would mean if he WAS a Supreme Court Justice immediately after an insurrection at which the upside down flag was being flown!’…
Thefuggouttahere with that stuff ;)
catclub
Didn’t he already do that at One of Obama’s State of the Union addresses?
Chief Oshkosh
@Gvg:
I’m not going to try to convince you that this is a big deal, but it’s a big deal. ;)
@Gvg:
Sure there is history, but this was a very specific action taken at a very specific time in our country’s events. The upside down flag had VERY specific connotations right after the January 6th insurrection. It beggars belief that the Alitos were unaware of this.
No, they made a clear political statement. They made it clear which “side” they are on. At the very least, the very least, Alito should recuse himself from all J6-related cases, including any involving Trump. So should Thomas.
But neither of them will.
Another Scott
@Chacal Charles Calthrop: Thanks for this. Appreciated.
Cheers,
Scott.
Another Scott
@piratedan: Made me look.
Wikipedia:
(Emphasis added.)
The flag photo was dated January 17, and it had been up for several days by (before/around?) that time.
That timeline certainly makes it seem like a much more political act than harking back to the insurrection, IMO. The “my political neighbors hurt my feelings” story may be mis-direction.
Grr…,
Scott.
moops
@Another Scott: That was my take, expressed up above. This flag raising was for Trump’s second impeachment. All that nonsense about strife with the neighbors is a cover story.
rikyrah
Good Morning, Everyone😊😊😊
Scout211
Yes. And my point above is that it was a horrible cover story that gave the story its legs. His response, besides throwing his wife under the bus, was divisive, defensive and political.
prostratedragon
the symbol is much older than that
So is the swastika.
Another Scott
@moops: @moops:
Indeed it was. Good catch.
(My excuse is that I haven’t had enough caffeine this morning and so forth…)
Cheers,
Scott.
artem1s
this whole flag worship and fixation with these people is just annoying. if it brings on more stories about his and Thomas’ corruption fine.perfect. but why am I sure this is going to devolve into some House debate about needing constitutional protection for the damn flag again (sans fringe of course) instead of focusing on the obvious problems with SCOTUS.
Brachiator
@Gvg:
Receiving gifts used to be an ethical violation. Not so much anymore.
We rarely used to hear about justices, apart from their decisions and an occasional speech. So these little outbursts stand out more.
piratedan
down the memory hole was THIS statement
newsweek.com/sidney-powell-drags-justice-samuel-alito-supreme-court-january-6-mess-1632896