VIEWER FEEDBACK: Jeff in Brighton writes, "If bulls#!t was music, you'd be a brass band." pic.twitter.com/ackbUTWH2t
— Kyle Clark (@KyleClark) May 8, 2024
I’ve been busy with (good) family stuff, but I had a chance to watch the full CO-4 debate that TaMara posted about the other day, and here are my take-homes.
First, debates are a bit of a conundrum. Most of them — especially the ones sponsored by the Presidential Debate Commission — are terrible. When they’re not stilted and dull, they’re taken over by the debater most willing to break the rules. Yet, normies with a bit of a sense of civic responsibility watch them, so they’re important. If more debates were moderated the way that the CO-4 debate was, I think normies would be able to learn more about the candidates from them, or at least they’d get some enjoyment from watching the moderators shut down a bunch of bullshitting blow-hards.
Second, what Kyle Clark did in that debate looked easy, but it was hard. Above all, he had the confidence to control the debate because he seems to feel secure in his position. Being a well-liked news anchor at a local TV station is a job for life if you want it (Rochester residents will know that Don Alhart retired from 13-WHAM a few days ago after 58 years working at the station). So he doesn’t have to worry about his bosses’ getting pissed at him for asking hard questions.
Like Alhart, Clark appears to see himself as a bit of a community booster — he wants to make Denver a better place, just as Alhart did in Rochester. So unlike the cult of the savvy that rules DC journalism, his conception of journalism includes talking seriously about issues that have real relevance. There wasn’t a single “gotcha” question in the debate he hosted.
That said, there are some specifics of his method that can be adopted by pretty much anyone with a little grit:
- Pack undisputed facts into your questions. He asked one of the candidates about his DUI and told the whole story in his question. His real question was “Why should we trust you if you hid the fact you got a DUI from your fellow Republicans?” but if he hadn’t packed the facts into the question, the candidate could have spent his time quibbling or denying.
- If they don’t answer your question, point that out. (This seems so damn simple but I haven’t seen many moderators do it as forcefully as Clark.) Related to that:
- Give them a second chance to answer yes/no if it is a yes/no question.
- But if isn’t a yes/no question, just tell them that they chose to spend their time not answering the question so we have to move on. This is exceedingly rare in a debate.
- Debate real issues, but be a stickler on facts. Republicans, especially, don’t want this because they live in bullshit world where they just warp the “facts” to match their agenda.
- Don’t argue with the candidates. When he asked Boebert about the Beetlejuice handjob/vaping incident, she tried to turn it around on him. He just said his piece while she was trying to talk over him and moved on. (Her argument that “a private moment” was interrupted in a theater full of 300 people was classic, btw.)
Local TV journalists get shit on a lot, but I’ve always felt that they were pretty good reporters. They’re constricted by the brevity of their form, but in our new paywall journalism world, TV station websites are probably the best, free source of local news left.
Baud
Who in the national scene would have the stature to do this?
Math Guy
@Baud: A few, I would hope, but their bosses would fire them shortly afterwards.
strange visitor (from another planet)
@Baud: sean evans.
wenchacha
My husband’s family used to go to the same church as Don Alhart. Definitely a hometown celeb and decent guy.
Dangerman
I need the down low on the low down rub down (rub up?).
Melancholy Jaques
@Baud:
I can’t think of anyone. I don’t watch a lot of news, so I might be missing some one. It goes against everything that news people have been doing for thirty years or more. It is very rare for anyone to confront Republicans in this manner.
The best example I can think of that illustrates the ways of the national political media is the contrast in how Matt Lauer spoke to Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump at that national security interview or whatever they called it.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
About 15 months ago, I was in one of his 3 minute pieces. I mentioned this the other day in the original post. We were leading an effort to save an historic house from one of Denver’s most odious developers desire to destroy it. As a former City Councilman refers to that asshole “He’s the Trump of Denver with all the associated psychological issues”. He’s so odious, the developers here, most of whom are no the ‘Narcissistic Sociopath Spectrum” themselves hate him even more because he’s also a dishonest pile of shit.
Clark’s producer was the *only* person in local media who actually didn’t edit the rambling assholery out of this guy for the piece. Instead, he let him ramble (he was our best weapon when he got in front of public, on-the-record, places because, well ‘Donald Trump of Denver’), then gave both me and the then-director of Historic Denver plenty of air time to provide concise, well written statements.
Thus, it’s no surprise that Clark was like this during a live-action event. He’s good, lots of integrity and as was said, no member of the Cult of the Saavy.
TaMara
@Mistermix – interesting about Alhart – I believe Kyle is from upstate NY – maybe he strives to be like him?
I do know there were some contentious contract negotiations a few years back, but I think the #s on his nightly newscast (it’s called Next with Kyle Clark and he structured it) since the pandemic have risen. It was touch and go after the 2016 election when he pissed off a large part of his market with his remarks on why Clinton lost, me included.
But his do-good for CO persona has earned him quite the audience – including a lot of hate-watchers (got to love it).
I still haven’t been able to stomach the full debate, so thanks for the being the one to do that, LOL
rikyrah
And then, we found out the depth of Lauer’s misogyny post-election because of the Me Too Movement
rikyrah
UH HUH
UH HUH
Edward-Isaac Dovere (@IsaacDovere) posted at 9:15 AM on Thu, Jun 06, 2024:
Abandon Biden group announces that now that the primaries are over, onto the next stage:
“Our mission is clear: Joe Biden must be defeated.
…
We are mobilized, we are furious, and we are committed to ensuring Joe Biden is defeated in the general election.”
(https://x.com/IsaacDovere/status/1798720360722141338?t=KZbnHPEe604Vr7UakSBzrQ&s=03)
TaMara
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: Hey! I remember that piece!
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@TaMara:
Hah! Now you can put a picture to a cranky jackal.
All my old media training back in my intel officer days plus having to brief way too many high level people so being informative and concise were beat into one really helped in situations like that.
Mistermix: “I watch RWNJ political debates so you don’t have to.”
$8 blue check mistermix
@TaMara:
Yep, he contributed a tribute to Alhart for Don’s retirement:
https://twitter.com/KyleClark/status/1798535286479261804
He says he’s from Wayne County which is east of Monroe County (Rochester) but in the viewing area for Rochester TV.
Harrison Wesley
What’s with the slagging on Boe-boe-boebert? If you libtards truly appreciated hard-working Merkins, you’d be applauding somebody who takes a hands-on approach and grasps the root of the problem.
waspuppet
You can’t stop someone from lying. What IS your choice is whether you point out that they’re lying, and whether you factor their propensity to lie in the next time they come to you with a breathless piece of news. This is what local journalists, even local political journalists — hell, every department of every news organization — does better than the Peter Bakers of the world.
@rikyrah: Multiple people who covered the first woman major-party presidential candidate turned out to be sexual abusers. Not just slightly worrisome types; actual lose-your-seven-figure-job abusers. Not that I still remember that all these years later or anything.
Harrison Wesley
@rikyrah: They could have just said they were supporting Donald Trump and saved some time.
$8 blue check mistermix
@wenchacha:
A few years ago I was part of the WHAM election coverage (when blogs were a new thing). Don was wearing American Flag socks. He’s a nice guy.
rikyrah
Jessica Berlin
@berlin_bridge
“You’re the savior of the people, you bring tears to my eyes.”
“No no, you saved Europe.”
“My hero.”
“No, you are our hero.”
“I pray for you.”
Heartbreaking between
@ZelenskyyUa
& a #DDay veteran, who knows the cost. He kisses his hand & won’t let go.
https://x.com/berlin_bridge/status/1798751873358495860
JCJ
@strange visitor (from another planet):
And if they still don’t answer the question he can make them eat hot wings until they do!
p.a.
Remember the shit W ate when confronted by a real, IIRC Irish, journo? Use some real journalists for the debates: US-based foreign journos. (Probably have better perspectives on domestic US issues than those based overseas who I would think focus on US foreign policy.)
These furriners probably have a better grasp of what the US Gvt has going on than our domestic horserace turds. Policy? What is this thing?
strange visitor (from another planet)
@JCJ: it would make for a fascinating debate. all those sweating politicians, mouths burning, forgetting to lie because their brains (such as they are) are too busy processing the unique and incendiary culinary sensation that is “da bomb” and just blurting out the truth about their plans for a night of the long knives right after the election when only the purest will survive.
rikyrah
I can’t remember who brought up the story of this County Clerk being subject to recall in an 82% Trump County.
I did a little digging.
Now, she was doing two jobs: Clerk and Treasurer. But, still, it’s a county of 729 people. She was getting 100k for the job(s). You will never convince me that it’s that hard. Or, that the cost of living is that high. she was doing well for herself on the government dole.
trollhattan
IDK what the typical broadcast news infrastructure is like nationwide; here, news divisions seem to have had their budgets stripmined and now are shells of their former selves. Separately, the Foxing and Sinclairing of formerly viable channels have drained off any former journalism that may have occurred at those.
The news choppers are gone. I’m not certain but the remote news vans with their big microwave masts seem rare now. The on-air personalities seem under continual churn but because I stopped watching except during fire/flood/storms, I’m not a good judge.
Hi-def and 4k have washed out all the older on-air staffers. Those wrinkles and pores don’t look so good on the shiny 85-incher in the rumpus room.
Very pleased to know the medium remains viable in places. Damn, I wish Bill Clinton would not have blown up the ownership restrictions. It killed more than just teevee.
rikyrah
@waspuppet:
truth. which is why I will always cop to not understanding THE DEPTH of the MISOGYNY that Hillary faced in 2016. I just didn’t get it. It was the thing I got most wrong.
Bex
@rikyrah: I saw the Zelenskyy video. Didn’t know how to post it, so I’m glad you did!
hueyplong
@Harrison Wesley: “… and grasps the root of the problem.”
In the GOP-inspired future, grasping the root instead of the shaft will be the only acceptable form of birth control.
trollhattan
OTOH every once in a while, the local paper sneaks in a headline like this:
zhena gogolia
@rikyrah: THANK YOU THAT IS AMAZING
jonas
Wait, forget the six-figure salary. How does a county that small have *any* salaried employees, except maybe for a sheriff and one or two deputies? You’d think the jobs would be seasonal/part time and pay like a small stipend plus a per diem for having to drive in to town for monthly meetings or something.
Betty Cracker
I was super impressed with Clark in the clips TaMara shared. We need this approach on the national level desperately, and I think minimizing the bullshit would draw more folks into the civic conversation. But how to break the hammerlock hold of mealy-mouthed corporate mouthpieces pushing the oligarch agenda? 🤔
rikyrah
@jonas:
Sheriff and deputies: 150k EACH
District Attorney : 130k
They all got pay raises from 2021 to 2022
They were only making a little over 100K in 2021
for a county of less than 800 people
jonas
@rikyrah: Shit, that’s incredible.
Dorothy A. Winsor
We’re going to a food event here where six different cooks each have a booth/table serving some dish they’re claiming as their specialty. We vote and someone gets bragging rights for a year. It’s fun and gives some recognition to people usually hidden away in the kitchen.
jonas
@rikyrah: Is there like one industrial employer in the county that pays millions in taxes or something that allows all the civil servants to live high on the hog? Otherwise, yeah, somethin’s rotten in Denmark…
Baud
@rikyrah:
They sound economically anxious.
rikyrah
@jonas:
I looked on Wikipedia, but, I didn’t find anything about a major employer. Did find this:
Peke Daddy
@trollhattan: Must have forgotten dosage, set and setting.
topclimber
@Baud: Erin Burnett of CNN is the first to come to mind. So far the only.
rikyrah
Conservatives tied to Trump want to limit insurance coverage for abortions
The proposal could make it more difficult for those with private-employer insurance to get out-of-state abortions, legal experts say.
By Lauren Kaori Gurley
and
Jeff Stein
June 6, 2024 at 2:12 p.m. EDT
Conservative policymakers influential with former president Donald Trump are discussing how to use a little-known labor law to impose sweeping restrictions on private-employer-covered abortions, according to a public statement and two people with direct knowledge of labor policy discussions among Trump advisers.
Although Trump has not formally committed to anything and talks are ongoing, the Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank, has publicly called for using federal labor law to limit the ability of private employers to provide coverage that includes abortions in states with abortion restrictions.
Trump insiders have also discussed these ideas, according to one person with direct knowledge of the talks.
The proposed change could make it vastly more difficult for residents of states with abortion bans to obtain abortions by traveling out-of-state, legal experts say, even as out-of-state travel for abortions doubled between the first half of 2020 and the first half of 2023, according to data from the Guttmacher Institute, which supports abortion rights.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2024/06/06/abortion-health-insurance-coverage-trump/?pwapi_token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJyZWFzb24iOiJnaWZ0IiwibmJmIjoxNzE3NjQ2NDAwLCJpc3MiOiJzdWJzY3JpcHRpb25zIiwiZXhwIjoxNzE5MDI4Nzk5LCJpYXQiOjE3MTc2NDY0MDAsImp0aSI6IjcyN2EzNDEwLTMwYjAtNGQzNy04YjBlLTQ2YzU5NWUyNmY1YiIsInVybCI6Imh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lndhc2hpbmd0b25wb3N0LmNvbS9idXNpbmVzcy8yMDI0LzA2LzA2L2Fib3J0aW9uLWhlYWx0aC1pbnN1cmFuY2UtY292ZXJhZ2UtdHJ1bXAvIn0.OPZe5pk8dGWtbYW4N_R4BtWKXHqDidGyIDuSB2Z9mak
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Betty Cracker:
Tumbrels?
I gots to admit, the high tumbrel numbers are already reserved for a variety of media types plus Larry Summers and The Turd (yglesias). But, tumbrels are reusable.
smith
@rikyrah: I can’t imagine that a population with that profile would provide a tax base to support salaries like that. Are they getting state money? Or federal? Will it turn out we blue state taxpayers are funding this?
Baud
@smith:
Has to be state, at least.
Of course, since it’s a rural Republican district, no one cares about high salaries for government functionaries.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Baud:
That’s cuz at least half the county will be related to one or more of the local aparatchiks. Can’t be killing off the goose for *family* yunno.
citizen dave
@waspuppet: A great point about the celebrity journos→Abusers, but I think Kamala was the first winning woman major party candidate. Geraldine Ferraro, 1984 being the first woman candidate.
smith
@Baud: At least the high salary explains why they’re trying to recall her — somebody else wants that job.
Baud
@smith:
Sounds like the county has about 100 decent folks. Wish we could send them a gift basket.
smith
@Baud: What? And put a target on their backs?
CaseyL
@Betty Cracker:
Stop watching it.
Get news from multiple trusted sources that are not on TV.
Networks and even cable are losing The Youngs, or have already lost them, for anything but sports (and even sports are going to streaming services, at least the “charismatic megafauna” like the NFL are). TV news is kept afloat by the middle aged and old. If they stop watching, the oligarchs will lose some income – and some influence.
Baud
@smith:
We could disguise it as a gun purchase.
eversor
I don’t think normies watch debates.
Political junkies over a certain age do. But they aren’t normies.
smith
@Baud: Massive chocolate AR-15s — I like it!
Rocks
@rikyrah: Esmeralda County is the location of the Silver Peak lithium mine, currently the only source of lithium production in the United States. They produce about 5,000 metric tons of lithium annually from the brines of the Clayton Valley playa. It will be interesting to see if the lithium rich brines from the deep geothermal wells at the south end of the Salton Sea become a competitor.
hueyplong
@eversor: In this era I don’t watch debates. I’ll next watch more than 6 words in a row from Trump if informed that he drops dead during the course of speaking in the clip. In fact, I’ll watch it a bunch of times.
A universally recognized deity could appear and I would not listen to it if it had a Queens accent.
Timill
@smith: Send them to the challengers, ostentatiously marked “From George Soros”.
Steeplejack
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
I think you mean low tumbrel numbers, not high—i.e., 1 = first in line.
RaflW
Mistermix, your paragraph contrasting journalists who want to make a difference and support the place where they live, vs the DC savvy-blasé complex is right on. And so frustrating. Those journalists ought to want to make American democracy function better.
It’s bedrock to who we are. They’re all invested in reporting on the guy walking up to the building with a gas can and matches, and none of them give a shit about the fact that they could say “Stop, I’m calling the cops.” Because objectivity (or something). Fuck that. You could save lives, agony and money. But you’ll let it burn.
SteverinoCT
In CT one of the stations has “The Drone Ranger.” And Snow Monster, a camera and sensor equipped Jeep that does driving remotes during storms. OTOH I saw a long shot of a stand-up: the stand-up was being shot with a cameraman using a phone.
rikyrah
@Rocks:
Then why aren’t these folks earning more. If the only place for this metal, then shouldn’t those involved be getting nice salaries?
Miss Bianca
@rikyrah: now that is a story all by itself…
StringOnAStick
@rikyrah: Not everyone in the county works at the mine. Folks who have never been to extreme rural NV have no idea what these extractive resource dependent towns truly in the middle of the NV desert are like; it’s another world. Miles from anywhere, extreme boom and bust economies, and the sort of insular places that just seem incredibly foreign to anyone living someplace with more than 1,000 people in a town.
JCNZ
@rikyrah: I loved that clip.
JCNZ
@CaseyL: So true. This site, Josh Marshall, the Guardian – find a handful of sources whose views are always vindicated… and relax.