Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

My years-long effort to drive family and friends away has really paid off this year.

So many bastards, so little time.

One of our two political parties is a cult whose leader admires Vladimir Putin.

If you tweet it in all caps, that makes it true!

I’d like to think you all would remain faithful to me if i ever tried to have some of you killed.

Ron DeSantis, the grand wizard, oops, governor of FL.

In after Baud. Damn.

The party of Reagan has become the party of Putin.

How any woman could possibly vote for this smug smarmy piece of misogynistic crap is beyond understanding.

Wow, you are pre-disappointed. How surprising.

Putting aside our relentless self-interest because the moral imperative is crystal clear.

Can we lighten up on the doomsday scenarios?

Their freedom requires your slavery.

We’re not going back!

It could be worse. Vance could have said “post-menopausal sows.” Waiting for that audiotape to surface.

Within six months Twitter will be fully self-driving.

Maybe you would prefer that we take Joelle’s side in ALL CAPS?

Innocent people don’t delay justice.

Celebrate the fucking wins.

Russian mouthpiece, go fuck yourself.

Republicans got rid of McCarthy. Democrats chose not to save him.

American History and Black History can not be separated.

The Supreme Court cannot be allowed to become the ultimate, unaccountable arbiter of everything.

Putin must be throwing ketchup at the walls.

You are here: Home / Civil Rights / LGBTQ Rights / LGBTQ Rights Are Human Rights / Thursday Morning Open Thread: I ❤️ Madam Vice President Harris

Thursday Morning Open Thread: I ❤️ Madam Vice President Harris

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A longish piece from the Washington Blade, and well worth reading in full — “Vice President Kamala Harris details what’s at stake in November”:

Vice President Kamala Harris spoke with the Washington Blade by phone on Monday for an exclusive interview in which she outlined the stakes of November’s election for LGBTQ communities and all Americans who are now facing “a profound, unapologetic, and intentional movement to restrict rights.”

The conversation comes at the outset of the Biden-Harris campaign’s roll-out of an aggressive organizing and paid media push for Pride month, which will feature appearances at more than 200 events in June as part of an effort to mobilize LGBTQ and “equality voters” in key battleground states.

Thirty-nine percent of survey respondents in a 2022 poll by the Human Rights Campaign said they consider LGBTQ equality a “make or break” issue, and queer Americans, who comprise a larger share of the electorate than ever before, are considered critical for the president and vice president’s reelection effort.

Harris stressed that these constituents are not monolithic. “What is important to me,” she said, “is that I am in the community where those voters may be, in addition to every other community where I’m listening to their priorities and needs and then being responsive to that.” …

Harris highlighted that issues of safety are among the major priorities for LGBTQ communities and equality voters, pointing to the June 2016 Pulse nightclub shooting in Orlando and the November 2022 Club Q shooting in Colorado Springs, crimes that she said the country must never forget.

“Gun violence,” when “being used because of hate” can “destroy the lives of so many innocent people,” she said, adding, “we know that for so many in the LGBTQ community, those clubs are the only place that a lot of people can go in certain communities to just have joy and [to] feel safe having joy, and now those places have been targeted.”…

In 2004, when 61 percent of Americans opposed the legal recognition of same-sex marriages (per Gallup), then-district attorney Harris officiated some of the first weddings between gay and lesbian couples in defiance of state and federal regulations.

Later, as attorney general, she refused to defend Proposition 8 and petitioned the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit to repeal the ballot measure, which had amended the state’s constitution to recognize only opposite-sex unions between one man and one woman.

Of the roughly two-dozen Democrats who led major presidential campaigns in 2020, Harris boasted the earliest explicit on-record support for marriage equality — by a long shot. However, even though virtually every elected Democrat and the majority of the American people have since come around on the issue, today the vice president is deeply troubled by the observation that “for the first time, we are seeing a profound, unapologetic, and intentional movement to restrict rights.”…

“Joe Biden and I are very proud to be the most pro-LGBTQ administration in history,” Harris said, “and I think that on the other side of this equation in November, you’ve probably got one of the most anti-LGBTQ administrations in modern history.”

“I am an eternal optimist and I’m also a realist,” she said. “When we fight for our rights, we see progress — and we win. We have to be vigilant, though. We have to see what’s possible and then fight to get there, like passing the Equality Act,” legislation championed by the Biden-Harris administration that would prohibit discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity in areas from housing and employment to lending and education.

“We’ve got to participate to get the Equality Act and things like that passed,” Harris said, adding, “I’m also clear-eyed” about “what’s happening on the other side of the ledger” which means taking “seriously that these extremists are making their intentions clear, and we should take them at their word.”…

Reader Interactions

260Comments

  8. 8.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @WereBear: Not visible ones? Both my senators are visibly in Mike Lee’s Crybaby Caucus and I’m pretty sure it won’t cost them any votes.

  10. 10.

    WereBear

    @OzarkHillbilly: The party is splitting, though. Their cult is not what it used to be. I guess it’s up to them who “wins” but it is a fight for control.

    If there’s anything left but the letterhead.

  11. 11.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Phoenix turns to ice-filled body bags to treat heatstroke as US south-west bakes

    The season’s first heatwave is already baking the south-west with triple-digit temperatures as firefighters in Phoenix – America’s hottest big city – employ new tactics in hopes of saving more lives in a county that saw 645 heat-related deaths last year.

    Starting this season, the Phoenix fire department is immersing heatstroke victims in ice on the way to area hospitals. The medical technique, known as cold-water immersion, is familiar to marathon runners and military service members and has also recently been adopted by Phoenix hospitals as a go-to protocol, according to fire captain John Prato.

    No doubt Texas will pass a law banning this life saving practice.

  13. 13.

    TBone

    Reposting from earlier because this pisses me off. There oughtta be a law.

    Jared Kushner has a real estate deal pending using his dirty, filthy, bonesaw coverup oil money investment firm to build some bullshit hotel in Serbia.  He promised to build an anti-NATO MONUMENT memorial in exchange for said deal that uses language approved by the Kremlin.

    https://digbysblog.net/2024/06/05/oh-jared-2/

  14. 14.

    Betty Cracker

    From a Politico piece on reactions from Delaware residents to Hunter Biden’s trial (ho-hum, say locals), a blazing scandal hiding in plain sight:

    The president still regularly stops by Jannsen’s for lunch, and customers at the deli can order the “Joe Biden” sandwich — maple-glazed turkey, havarti cheese, arugula and champagne mustard.

    Arugula AND “champagne mustard”? Holy hell!

  15. 15.

    TBone

    @OzarkHillbilly: we should all stock up on body bags and ice machines. No one will be immune from heat stroke.  It’s coming much faster than predicted.

  16. 16.

    MomSense

    I’m watching the Dday remembrance.  Just thinking about that place gives me chills
    They just showed Biden walking in and those of us who aren’t ableist assholes know he has neuropathy in his feet giving him a shorter gate but I know there will be chatter about it.  I hate people sometimes. Ugh.

    Anyway you know which president didn’t have a shorter gate or fall off his bicycle?  FDR!
    Think the haters would get it if I replied with that?

  17. 17.

    Jeffro

    @OzarkHillbilly: The GOP faithful like WATBs

    true

    so much so that, even in a county where trump won with 82% of the vote, they think he should have won by more and are recalling the Republican elections clerk over it(!)

    gift link

    “I hope you’re having a blessed morning,” Zakas said. “Unfortunately, a lot of people are still very concerned about the security of their votes. They’ve lost all trust in the system.”  “I’d be happy to answer any questions and explain our process again,” Elgan said.

    “We’re beyond that,” Zakas said. She reached into her purse and set a notarized form on the counter. Elgan recognized it as a recall petition.

    It was an outcome she’d feared for the last three and a half years, ever since former President Donald J. Trump lost the 2020 election, and his denials and distortions spread outward from the White House to even the country’s most remote places, like Esmeralda County.

    It had neither a stoplight nor a high school, and Elgan knew most of the 620 voters on sight. Trump won the county with 82 percent of the vote despite losing Nevada. In the days after the election, some residents began to suspect that he should have won by even more, and they parroted Trump’s talking points and brought their complaints to the county’s monthly commissioner meetings.”

    ..when [GOP Elections Clerk] Elgan continued to stand up at each meeting to dispute and disprove those accusations by citing election laws and facts, they began to blame her, too — the most unlikely scapegoat of all. She had served as the clerk without controversy for two decades as an elected Republican, and she flew a flag at her own home that read: “Trump 2024 — Take America Back.” But lately some local Republicans had begun referring to her as “Luciferinda” or as the “clerk of the deep state cabal.” They accused her of being paid off by Dominion and skimming votes away from Trump, and even though their allegations came with no evidence, they wanted her recalled from office before the next presidential election in November.”

    “Burgans devoted her first several months to learning about the state’s mandatory election safeguards: machine inspections, signature verifications and the certified canvass to confirm each vote. “The reality is Trump lost,” she eventually concluded. “I did a complete 180. Our elections are more accurate and secure than ever before in American history.”

    The challenge was convincing anyone else.

  18. 18.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Geminid: No, but I wouldn’t see any ads anyway. Haven’t seen much in the news either. Tho I did see an article a week or 2 ago. Don’t remember what it was about.

    @WereBear: Here in Misery they are unified around the stupid. As I have noted in the past, enthusiasm among the voters has waned. We’ll see if that translates to fewer votes.

  20. 20.

    Jeffro

    @Betty Cracker:Arugula AND “champagne mustard”? Holy hell!

    “I’ll have my usual ‘Joe Biden’ sandwich”, said Joe Biden, sporting a new tan suit and playing around with a selfie stick.

  25. 25.

    eclare

    @TBone:

    Wonder how that will go over with Muslims in Michigan?  Basically an apology monument to Milosevic.

  26. 26.

    MomSense

    @TBone:

    It was 93 here in Central Maine yesterday.  Crazy.  Thankfully the house stayed cool.  I opened the windows last night after and closed them first thing this morning.  I did have a few ceiling fans running last night and I have no idea how expensive that is until I get the first electric bill.

  29. 29.

    TBone

    @eclare: 👍 on D Day we remember that NATO is a defensive organization.  But everything about Kushner, et al. is offensive.  The shit pot he is stirring needs to blow up in his pale, pinched face.

    I really don’t like their ability to put hatred in my heart.  It’s not a good feeling and it’s by design.  I will work hard to counteract that today.

  32. 32.

    Betty Cracker

    @eclare: I’d definitely eat that sandwich but would ask for mayo along with the champagne mustard. I wonder what sort of bread it comes on? They don’t say. Probably a baguette. Yum!

  34. 34.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    As politically “in tune” as I am, I’ll admit I don’t pay much attention to the VP.  Hell, I paid more attention to Secretary Pete mainly because I technically worked for him.

    But she’s really shined as VP and given the issues we’ve faced, it’s a perfect time for her.

  36. 36.

    TBone

    @MomSense: I absolutely ADORE Maine.  I have a “secret” vacation cabin rental on the shore just across from Mt. Desert Island that is a little dream come true.  It’s not the Taj Mahal, but it has its own little beach and it’s cheap. We used to tent camp at Mt. Desert Island Campground but I can no longer tolerate sleeping outside.

    I envy you your location very much in the summer months.  Remember to grab life by the balls and thoroughly enjoy yourself each and every day!  I am living vicariously through you right now since hubby’s health issues (and mine) prevented a trip to Maine this summer

    The. Lobster. 😍 The blueberry pie. 😍

    Have FUN!!!

  37. 37.

    Baud

    I think the first tweet put me in a bad mood. If Harris is speaking in person at a Bay Area fundraiser, then most likely the attendees are some pretty well off folks.  They are the last people in the world which Harris should need to give emotional comfort too.  They should be the ones who are giving emotional energy to her for the fight ahead.

  39. 39.

    eclare

    Off to get ready for my neighborhood coffee group.  I’ll catch the rest of the D-Day service on the DVR.

    Y’all have a good day!

  41. 41.

    OzarkHillbilly

    The Balloon War has escalated.

    Activists fly K-pop USB sticks into North Korea as ‘poo balloon’ row intensifies

    The “balloon wars” between the two Koreas have intensified after activists in the South said they had sent balloons carrying anti-North Korean propaganda over the countries’ heavily armed border.

    A group of North Korean defectors called the Free North Korea Movement on Thursday said it had sent 10 large balloons filled with 200,000 leaflets critical of the regime of North Korean leader, Kim Jong-un, as well as US dollar bills and flash drives loaded with K-pop, according to South Korean media.

    Kim will answer by sending trump speeches.

  43. 43.

    TBone

    @MomSense: my point was supposed to be GET IT WHILE THE GETTING IS STILL GOOD. 💙

    Here in PA we are stewing in jungle-like humidity and high temps a month early.

  47. 47.

    Betty

    @Baud: If I’m not mistaken, the comfort was being offered to the LGBQT community. Wealth doesn’t protect them from being physically attacked.

  48. 48.

    Betty Cracker

    @Baud: Admittedly I get most of my info on Biden-Harris campaigning from the clips AL assembles, but my impression is they are highly targeted for the audience. At first I wondered if that is sustainable but with our fragmented and often emotionally unstable coalition, it may be the only way.

    I affixed my plain white “Biden Harris” sticker to the bumper of the rattletrap Jeep this weekend, so campaign season is officially underway in the swamp! In the past, I’ve opted for more in-your-face bumper sticker messaging, but this year, simplicity seems best. Plus, the white sticker really pops on the slate-gray and mud-splattered Jeep.

  49. 49.

    Baud

    @Betty:

    Ok, that’s makes me feel a little better. I didn’t realize the top tweet was connected to the story in the OP.

  56. 56.

    Suzanne

    The neighbor on the next block who had the giant sign “TRUMP 2020 MAKE THE LIBERALS CRY AGAIN” last cycle put up a new sign last week. This one is at least smaller (more tasteful?). SuzMom was commenting to me that she liked their flowers, then noticed the sign, and said, “Never mind”. FUCK THOSE FLOWERS.

    Three neighbors on that block dressed up like John Fetterman for Halloween. So I don’t think they’re making any friends.

    In other news, I am still pissed AF at Kathy Hochul. These are the kind of things that happen that make me understand when people think voting isn’t worth their time, and government is entirely bought and paid for.

  57. 57.

    MomSense

    @TBone:

    Cranberry islands?  I love them – especially the no cars part.  I love getting on the mail boats and making that crossing! Wild blueberries and beautiful views.
    We are now in strawberry rhubarb season and I want to make all the pies.  Probably my favorite pie flavor.

    Sorry to hear about hubby.  Sending good health wishes to you both.

    95 seems wicked hot to me for early June in Maine. We are expecting thunderstorms and I hope those break this heat.

  62. 62.

    TBone

    @NotMax: my recipe for fondue calls for Calvados. I think I might celebrate with French flowers and fondue today.  Uncle John would approve!

    Strange Lt. Col., Ret. John Gray

    Passed away June 13, 2014 at Broad Acres Nursing Home, Wellsboro, PA. He was born February 19, 1917 in Gray’s Valley, PA, to the late John Cooley and Alice Gray Strange. He was predeceased by brother Edson Cooley and wife Marion White Strange. He is survived by his wife Odeena Jensen Strange, daughter Shelley and husband David, sisters-in-law, Elizabeth Jensen Campbell and Hildred Jensen Yost, one grandchild, two great grandchildren, and numerous nieces and nephews. John graduated in Forestry from Penn State University in 1939 where, while on the cross country track team he qualified for the next Olympics. He continued training in Hawaii where he was sent as a draftee. He was there on December 7, 1941. He became an officer of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers after training at Ft. Belvoir Virginia. From there he went to England and France. He was wounded in France and received the Purple Heart. After the war he returned to civilian life but continued in the Army Reserves. When asked to help fill the need of Engineers in the Army he returned to active duty. John was in Korea and during the Christmas season he went on leave to Tokyo. On the military plane in Seoul a teacher from the Army dependents school came aboard. She asked him if the vacant seat next to him was taken, No, so she sat. They chatted and it turned out she taught his commanding officer’s son. Thus introduced, they enjoyed Tokyo and later Korea together. Back in the U.S. they married in Odeena’s church in Berkley, CA. John had various postings in the United States, two in Korea, and the most unusual was to Afghanistan in the sixties. He looked it up on a map to find the location. His assignment was overseeing the completion of the road from Kabul to Kandahar. Upon retirement from the Army the Col. Became a Resident Engineer for Gannett Flemming Corp. Finally in retirement in Gray’s Valley he enjoyed his membership in Corey Creek Golf Club playing with his senior friends. He was a lifelong member of the Sullivan State Road Baptist Church. He enjoyed hunting, fishing, gardening, and family visits. Friends are invited to John’s graveside service at the Sullivan State Road Cemetery

  63. 63.

    Soprano2

    @Geminid: I’ve been getting mailers, I’ve given him some money because I think he’s the best candidate for Democrats in Missouri. There aren’t ads on the Democratic side yet, at least not that I’ve seen. All the ads are Republicans attacking each other about who’s more pro-China.

  64. 64.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Jeffro: ​
     

    even in a county where trump won with 82% of the vote, they think he should have won by more and are recalling the Republican elections clerk over it(!)

    And they will replace the current clerk, who has served for over two decades, with someone who doesn’t know jack shit about how to do the job.

    I really am starting to think that if Trump wins, Dem areas of the country will have to secede just so that they can ensure that their parts of the country keep functioning at a basic level.

  65. 65.

    Betty Cracker

    @NotMax: She lost me with the OJ too. After viewing the Normandy Flowers clip, I’m wondering who mispronounces “Calvados” — the YouTube host or me. I’ve been saying KAL-vuh-dose for years without being corrected. She says kal-VAH-dose.

  66. 66.

    Soprano2

    @Jeffro: This is the problem with purity – eventually they start to purge each other, trying to become more and more “pure”. This is what’s happening with the party in Michigan, too. I guess some of them think TCFG should have won 100% of the vote in that county. It’s crazy.

  68. 68.

    NotMax

    @Soprano2

    Not gonna link to her ads but the far right nutball running for Missouri Secretary of State (Valentina Gomez) is a galactically twisted person.

  69. 69.

    WaterGirl

    @Betty Cracker: At least Biden didn’t order the wrong drink!  Didn’t Obama do that once?   Maybe an orange juice scandal or something like that.

    The media is helpless, hopeless, and hapless.  Pathetic, also, but that doesn’t start with H.

  70. 70.

    Harrison Wesley

    I saw my first “Kennedy ’24” sign yesterday on my way to downtown Sarasota – a yooge one that covered the entire side of a one-story building, facing right out on Route 41.  I mentioned it to the friend I was meeting, and she told me she’s seen a bunch of them around.  Didn’t know he was a player in Florida; I thought it was pretty much all Trump.

  71. 71.

    WaterGirl

    @Baud:  That made me laugh.  I love impeachment testicles!   Sorry you fixed it.

    Is that related to impeachment hard-ons?  Becuase they definitely have those!

    *I have never written hard-on before, so I have no idea if it’s one word or two, hyphenated or not.  I AM NOT GOOGLING.

  73. 73.

    hueyplong

    @Betty Cracker: I said KAL-vah-dos in Normandy without being corrected, but that was in 1989, and people there were very tolerant of my lame attempts to put French through a southern WV filter.  It’s entirely possible they were telling each other that the rube still seemed to have a few francs left, so let’s tolerate him.

  74. 74.

    WaterGirl

    @Suzanne:

    SuzMom was commenting to me that she liked their flowers, then noticed the sign, and said, “Never mind”. FUCK THOSE FLOWERS.

    The acorn didn’t fall far from the tree!  (Or is that supposed to be apple?)

  75. 75.

    TBone

    @MomSense: tiny cozy cabin – we turn off main road at Trenton Bridge Lobster Pound and take the back country roads past Goose Cove.  It’s on the shore of Mt. Desert Narrows. That’s all I’m willing to divulge 🤣

    I love me some rhubarb pie!  Jealous!!!

  77. 77.

    kalakal

    @WereBear:

    Long John Baldy

    Auto correct for the win!

    I was quite the fan of his back in the day. He had Elton John and Rod Stewart in his band before anyone had heard of them.

  78. 78.

    TBone

    @NotMax: thank you for the inspiring French flowers cocktail recipe though!  Warm, gooey, fromage fondue, crusty French bread and sausage chunks for dipping, and a French appertif.  Life is GOOD.

  80. 80.

    Kay

    National Public Affairs is a winger polling org. IMO. They’re taken seriously though – no idea why. Anyway, they have Trump up 8 in Ohio (he won by 8 last time) but they also have Sherrod Brown up by 6. Now, Bernie Moreno is a bad candidate but is he that bad?

  81. 81.

    Betty Cracker

    @WaterGirl: Yeah, don’t Google that. I think Cole is still traumatized from when he consulted a search engine for information on a Sopranos character nicknamed “Big Pussy.”

  82. 82.

    Suzanne

    @Soprano2: Yes, it’s about congestion pricing. It’s a terrible decision. It’s a bad decision from a climate perspective, it’s financially moronic, it negatively affects the urban environment.

    Suburbanites are happy, though!

  84. 84.

    Almost Retired

    @Harrison Wesley: ​
    Last week about six Kennedy ’24 signs popped up in my neighborhood, paired with signs opposing the extension of the Los Angeles light rail system deeper into the South Bay. Either Kennedy is micro-targeting public transportation opponents, or racist NIMBYs are naturally drawn to Kennedy. Or both.

  85. 85.

    Melancholy Jaques

    @Baud:

    Texas will pass a law outlawing heat. Problem solved.

    Texas will pass a law outlawing anyone complaining about the heat.

  86. 86.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    Seeing so many fauxgressives sad about Hochul canceling congestion pricing is hysterical.

    It was pushed by rideshare companies like Uber, Lyft, CitiBike and real estate interests. It would hurt working class folks who can’t live in the city. A better solution for transit funding is taxes.

    Hochul was able to delay CP without any pushback or negative responses because loonies like Streetsblog and TransAlt weren’t there to influence the decision.

    It was a regressive tax on working people that will only help clear the streets for wealthy people. Despicable. Mass transit should be funded with progressive taxes on the wealthy.

    I network with a fair number of housing activists in the city who helped push back on it.  Good for them for this win.

  87. 87.

    TBone

    @Melancholy Jaques: having spent a year in Texas that included the summer months, even opening your mouth to complain takes concerted effort in that sizzle-crisping inferno.  Siesta time is a thing taken very seriously.  Their power grid problems are going to bite too many innocent people right where it counts.  When it counts.  I almost melted there.

  90. 90.

    Suzanne

    @WaterGirl:

    The acorn didn’t fall far from the tree! 

    Oh yeah.
    It’s my piece-of-shit other-half-of-my-DNA-person who is a big MAGAt.

    I will note that I have also made her more progressive. She was shocked when, as a teenager, I said that I wouldn’t recite the Pledge of Allegiance.

  91. 91.

    caphilldcne

    Thanks for this. I went to a private DC DNC Pride fundraiser in DC last night complete with drag queens and speechifying.  The message to us was that this is the year to give til it hurts. We have to bring it home or this community (and especially our trans brothers and sisters) is going to be deeply wounded. It was sobering but good. People at the event were all in. We do not need to wake up in 2024 like we did in 2016 with people sobbing in the metro. But it’s going to be close and no one can sit this out.

  93. 93.

    caphilldcne

    Thanks for this. I went to a private DNC Pride fundraiser in DC last night complete with drag queens and speechifying.  The message to us was that this is the year to give til it hurts. We have to bring it home or this community (and especially our trans brothers and sisters) is going to be deeply wounded. It was sobering but good. People at the event were all in. We do not need to wake up in 2024 like we did in 2016 with people sobbing in the metro. But it’s going to be close and no one can sit this out.

     

    edit: man, I got my own nym wrong. Ignore first comment – tried to delete but no luck.

  94. 94.

    TBone

    FINALLY driving while using cell phone OUTLAWED in PA.  Thank you, Dems and Governor Shapiro!!!  Law signed yesterday 😍

  95. 95.

    Suzanne

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage: The problem with saying that mass transit should be funded solely by taxes on the wealthy is that the governor of New York can’t pass taxes on residents of New Jersey and Connecticut and Pennsylvania. Congestion pricing is realistically the only way to do that.

    Working-class people who live outside the city aren’t the ones paying $50/day to drive in and park. That’s the rich assholes.

    So, instead, we get…. nothing. More drivers, no funding.

    I know, let’s encourage more driving and call it progressive, bang-up idea.

  97. 97.

    MazeDancer

    Watching the 98 year olds struggle to their feet to receive medals from Presidents Biden and Macron on D-Day, ngl, teared up.

    Mr. Biden gave a rousing speech.

    May the GOP who hate Democracy spend eternity tortured by those who died this day 80 years ago.

  98. 98.

    Belafon

    @Ken: Some sandwiches are better with mayo, and some are better with mustard. And cheese sandwiches are best with Kraft.

  99. 99.

    Ken

    @Melancholy Jaques: Texas will pass a law outlawing anyone complaining about the heat.

    And create a hotline for people to report their neighbors for infractions, so the special security police can arrest them.

  100. 100.

    JCJ

    @WaterGirl:  To be silly when I get an email asking me to do something I will reply with a screen shot of a My Little Pony character saluting.  I usually search “my little pony saluting”.  One time I mixed up the order of the words and typed “saluting my”.  The auto fill suggested “saluting my salami”.  I have no idea what that means, but I was not about to find out!

  101. 101.

    Kay

    Working class peoples time is valuable, too. Less congestion means fewer delays. For an hourly service worker at 25 dollars an hour cut out down time (traffic delays) where they’re not paid they could easily come out ahead.

  104. 104.

    Kay

    If you’re moving around NYC billing only at destinations over the course of a day I think you would come out ahead. Saving two hours driving means two additional hours billing.

  105. 105.

    Scout211

    @MomSense: I did have a few ceiling fans running last night and I have no idea how expensive that is until I get the first electric bill.

     

    When comparing  the energy usage between a ceiling fan and an air conditioning system, it becomes overly clear just how energy efficient it can be. It’s estimated that a ceiling fan will use around 1% of the electricity an air conditioning system consumes. To clarify this, you could leave a ceiling fan running all day long and still use less energy than you would if you run your conditioner for only 15 minutes a day.

     

    We have five rooms with ceiling fans and use them regularly in the heat.  Our power company, the odious PG&E, recommends them when they send out scolding letters to try to convince everyone to use less power.  

    We are having a scorching heat wave here, too.  There’s an early season heat dome over the southwest and most of California.  We have unusually warm overnight temps right now as well.   The ceiling fans at night make it easier to sleep.  I’ve read that ceiling fans make the temperature feel 10% cooler.

    Our power went out last night around 8:00 when it was still in the 90s outside.  We had the A/C on for the first time yesterday and I guess so did everyone else and the power grid reacted badly.  I am so used to the windows being open and the ceiling fan going at night during hot days that I couldn’t sleep until the power was restored at around 11:00 and the ceiling fans were back on.  We don’t run the A/c at night, just the ceiling fans.

    For the PG&E haters out there (like me), they must have upgraded their outage reporting system with AI because it took an hour to acknowledge the outage (and it was a big one in our area) and the AI robo voice told me that it was weather related and all the technicians were already on assignment since there were so many weather-related outages.  It told me that we should prepare for an extended period of no power because everyone was already busy with all those outages.  What? There was no weather (except hot) and the outage map did not show extensive outages in NorCal.  I guess the AI system ran the wrong script.

    And power was restored in 3 hours.

    Another strike against PG&E.

  106. 106.

    TBone

    I can’t believe that turtley mcturtleface isn’t daid yet.

    …Senator Whitehouse, in a statement to CNBC, said, “When Mitch McConnell, Leonard Leo and the Wall Street Journal editorial page are all criticizing you about the Supreme Court, it’s a pretty good sign you’re on the right track.”

    Here’s what I know: When they write the history books, Sheldon Whitehouse and Richard Blumenthal will be inspiring examples. And Mitch? He’ll always be the parasitic worm that tried to take democracy down.

    https://crooksandliars.com/2024/06/moscow-mitch-punish-dem-senators-holding

  108. 108.

    Kay

    @Belafon:

    No but they’re not paid for sitting in traffic. They’re paying for congestion anyway.

    If they’re a service company who actually bills at each address they will actually bill more, so yes. If you’re a plumber going from place to place less time in traffic at 0 dollars an hour means more time at 50 dollars an hour.

  109. 109.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Kay:
    63% of *New Yorkers* opposed this; Hochul can read polls.

    Working class people opposed this because the mass transit alternatives are not viable for what they do or, as you point out, takes massive more time.  A couple of activists did some sample tests going from various Point A to Point B activities.  Something that might take 40 minutes by car would take 2+ hours by mass transit.

    Small business owners throughout the city opposed this.  Lots of events and reports outlining what it would mean to them in terms of increased costs and loss of business.

    It was hysterical to see the Manhattan borough president champion CP from the back seat of his chaffeur-driven city car.

    Again, the groups pushing this were a dead giveaway for it’s real purpose and all the greenwashing rhetoric used by the usual market urbanist suspects doesn’t change that.​

  110. 110.

    TBone

    @MomSense: I am of the opinion that your entire state is a gorgeous area 🥰 and I’m so happy for you that you found your home there!  Please tell stories to us regularly – I can almost smell the Maine smells when we hear from you! And pie baking smells! Life doesn’t get much better than that! 💙💜💙

  111. 111.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Melancholy Jaques:

    Texas will pass a law outlawing anyone complaining about the heat.

    And the law will double the penalties for anyone implying that the heat has anything to do with global warming.

  112. 112.

    Suzanne

    @Kay: Cities also need to work well ***for the people who live there***, including…. working-class people! Who need that damn subway to run efficiently!

  115. 115.

    Kay

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage:

    But part of the point of congestion pricing is to reduce congestion. I’m not saying they should switch to public transportation. Stay driving. They would be paying to save time. If there’s less congestion they pay to get an hour or two back every day. Shit, just lower day care costs would make them come out ahead, let alone having one or two hours a day back. You’re not counting any benefit they would get as drivers.

    If you’re an hourly person who can only bill when you reach your various destination(s) over the course of a work day it’s a no brainer. If congestion pricing reduces congestion and lowers time spent in traffic they’ll come out ahead. They’ll bill for 9 hours instead of 7.

  117. 117.

    Suzanne

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage: That’s 63% of New York Staters, not NYC residents. Long Islanders especially hated it.

    A Siena poll released in April showed 63% of New Yorkers statewide opposed congestion pricing, and just 25% supported it. The plan is wildly unpopular on Long Island and in Upstate, where Democrats are hoping to unseat as many as five freshmen Republicans, including Congressman Anthony D’Esposito.

     
    It’s a blatant suck-up to the bougie residents of Nassau and Westchester Counties, who go into the city to work but don’t pay taxes there. It’s bad policy for the people who actually live there.

  118. 118.

    Geminid

    @TBone: McConnell’s not dead but yesterday, when the CBS radio news reported on the Senate vote on contraception, they paired Chuck Schumer’s sound-bite with one from John Thune. This is standard practice except that up to now, it’s always been McConnell talking.

  120. 120.

    MomSense

    @TBone:
    Last night was a decidedly not glamorous night.  It involved cleaning kitchen cupboards, putting in new contact paper and trying to fit my stuff in the odd drawers.  The cupboards are metal and were probably installed in the 50s.  One of them has a bread basket built into the drawer.  It also has a water pipe to the upstairs that runs right through it and it is definitely a chicken/egg situation.  I think the pipe went in after but who knows.

    I ordered some metal shelves for the pantry so I can get my foodstuffs out of bags on the floor.

    The dining room has a glass door to a closet with shelves where I want to put my china.  There is also a closet with built in drawers and shelves similar to one in my childhood home that was about the same age.  I need to clean and paint the inside so I can put tablecloths serving trays etc in there.

    The coolest thing I’ve found so far is old wallpaper in one of the upstairs bedrooms.  It’s like a robin’s egg blue with delicate white vines and lavender wisteria like flowers.  Super fancy.  The colors are amazing.

  121. 121.

    Kay

    @Suzanne:

    Ok, but I’m just talking about the concept of time :)

    I think one has to be careful not to undervalue working peoples time – it’s easy to do because it actually is valued less on an hourly pay basis.

  123. 123.

    RedDirtGirl

    @TBone: I’m heading up there in 2 weeks. My family has a house on an island off the coast of Mt. Desert Island. No ferry service.

  125. 125.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Scout211: ​
     

    Maybe it’s that our HVAC is a heat pump system, but our July electric bills* are only slightly higher than those in the transitional months like May and September, even though we run the A/C full time for most of the summer.

    Of course, we only cool to 77 degrees in the daytime, because I don’t want to come in from outdoors wearing cutoffs and t-shirt and freeze the moment I’m inside. So that helps. But still, at least here in southern Maryland, I don’t find running the A/C to be very costly to begin with.

    *Minor correction: I don’t keep track of the $$, just the kilowatt hours.

  127. 127.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Kay:

    But part of the point of congestion pricing is to reduce congestion.

    That’s not the point of this bill.  We’re not gonna agree on this and nothing I attempt to lay out from those New Yorkers on the ground is likely to help explain this.

  128. 128.

    Kay

    Pleased about how that contraception vote in the senate is being discussed. Much better than I thought it would be. Ha!

  129. 129.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Harrison Wesley: Some eejit in our neighborhood had a Kennedy sign up early this year. It disappeared as more info came out about him (prior to the brainworms revelation). I wonder why.

    On a semi-related note, I saw my first Cybertruck in the wild yesterday. 30-something white dude driving, natch. The “truck” looks even worse than the photos: fugly, of course, but also the materials look really cheap, shoddy even. A super tacky-looking vehicle.

  130. 130.

    Eolirin

    @Suzanne: I think delaying that until after the election is a good idea. We need LI and Hudson Valley wins to take the house back. It takes the issue off the table for right wing House candidates to demagogue on. I’m much less concerned about how NYC elections will go or that it will meaningfully depress turnout when Trump is on the ballot.

    And yes, I know House members don’t have a say on local issues. But most of the electorate doesn’t.

  131. 131.

    Suzanne

    @Kay: It’s, like, looking-glass-y to see someone support the policy overwhelmingly backed by the residents of some of the wealthiest counties in America and tell me that this is, like, in working-class people’s interests.

    Working-class people mostly aren’t driving into NYC on the daily. They’re using the trains and the subway.

  133. 133.

    topclimber

    Let’s not forget turning bounty hunters loose on any Texan who travels out of state to complain about the heat, or on anyone who assists them.

  134. 134.

    narya

    @Suzanne: My parents and grandparents supported me in my choice on that one. :-) Useful to have anarchists in the fam.

    W/r/t D-Day: Yogi Berra took part in the D-Day invasion. We’ll drink a toast to him tonight, while sitting around a campfire in northern Wisconsin!

  135. 135.

    Kay

    @Suzanne:

    I’m biased against Hochul for her bizarre campaign on behalf of the Right wing judge so I try not to think about her.

  137. 137.

    Suzanne

    @Eolirin:

    I think delaying that until after the election is a good idea. We need LI and Hudson Valley wins to take the house back. 

    I mean, sure, in the craven-calculation way. But, I mean, delaying good policy because you want to win future elections feels….. incredibly gross. Like, what is the point of holding power if not to use it? Counteracting climate change is going to require some goddamn bravery.

  138. 138.

    Baud

    @Suzanne:

    I have zero insight into this issue as a policy or political matter. But I think it’s standard in politics to work timing.  Maybe gross, but all politics is gross to some extent. It’s why it turns so many people off.

  139. 139.

    Geminid

    @Kay: Now it’s up to Democrats to focus attention on the Discharge Petition in tbe House. It’s tougher to slam a Republican for not signing a discharge petition than it would be for a roll call vote, but Democrats have the means to put the petition in the news and keep it there.

  140. 140.

    Chris

    @Suzanne:

    In other news, I am still pissed AF at Kathy Hochul. These are the kind of things that happen that make me understand when people think voting isn’t worth their time, and government is entirely bought and paid for.

    I don’t actually believe the people who tell me that the Democrats are a “controlled opposition” that ensures that even when the Republicans lose, they don’t really lose.

    But I’ll grant that the New York State Democratic Party is probably the single biggest data point in these people’s favor.

  141. 141.

    Baud

    Newsweek Via reddit

    A former neighbor of Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito has said his account of a neighborhood dispute that led to the hoisting of an upside-down U.S. flag on his property didn’t add up.

    “At best, he’s mistaken, but at worst he’s just outright lying,” Emily Baden told CNN’s Erin Burnett on OutFront.

  143. 143.

    Suzanne

    According to Curbed (links within link, so as not to exceed limit):

    Only 4 percent of outer-borough residents — around 128,000 people — drive into Manhattan to work, according to a Community Service Society study. Meanwhile, 57 percent use public transit. Only 2 percent of poor outer-borough residents commute to Manhattan by car. That’s 5,000 people in total. Meanwhile, 61 percent of poor outer-borough residents rely on public transit and the rest either drive elsewhere, walk, or bike to their jobs.

    Congestion pricing is essentially a tax on the rich. Underfunding the MTA doesn’t do NYC’s poor and working-class any good.

  144. 144.

    Eolirin

    @Suzanne: Timing is everything in politics. If this goes into effect in February instead of now, as an example, it’s not really going to cause any harm, and power would still be being used to enact policy. But it’d also potentially improve electoral outcomes in a way that matters more than a few months long delay on congestion pricing.

  146. 146.

    Kay

    @Geminid:

    Voters are behind a little on the contraception issue, based on my Ohio work during the referendum campaign. No one I talked to mentioned it. White women are such a big part of the total vote available even a small nudge up among them helps a lot.

  147. 147.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    They’re really something. It would have been so easy for him to tell the truth, but it’s just not in them.

    They can’t give an inch, even if doing so would benefit them.

  148. 148.

    Suzanne

    @Baud: That’s exactly my point: this is the kind of decision-making that happens that makes people say “both sides are the same!” and “they’re all bad, I don’t want to vote for any of these assholes”…. and I kind of cannot argue this point.

  149. 149.

    Theflippsyd

    @Betty Cracker: I am not a native Delawarean — so this is a non-native’s observations about Northern Delaware. I’ve lived here now for almost 20 years. It is an interesting place and I have to admit was a bit of a culture shock when I first moved here. I always joke that there aren’t six degrees of separation in Delaware — more like 2 or 3. It is a community where everyone knows everyone else — I never go anywhere anymore without at least seeing one person I know.  When I go to my local Shop Rite, I may see Senator Tom Carper. When I drop my kids off at the YMCA, I might see Governor John Carney. If I am running errands on a Saturday morning, I may have to wait for the “Joe jam” to pass — what the locals call it when President Biden is in town and everything comes to a stop when he is on the move.

    Before he became VP, President Biden would stop at the DD across from where I worked. Co-workers would go over to say hello. Delawareans are generally very polite, and even those individuals who don’t agree with him, generally will talk with him if they see him out and about.  “Everybody” has a meeting Joe Biden story.

    Regarding the dating scene, it is hard for single non-locals to develop more than surface relationships, though. Everybody is polite and friendly, but it really is difficult to develop deeper relationships. I didn’t start to have deeper connections until I started meeting the parents of my kids’ friends.  I grew up in a large city, but my take on it is that it is a small town feel in what is actually a pretty tightly populated suburban area.

  150. 150.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Baud:

    “At best, he’s mistaken, but at worst he’s just outright lying,”

    Alito is never “at best,” so it’s safe to assume the alternative.

  151. 151.

    Baud

    @Suzanne:

    Like I said, I have no insight, but from the comments in this thread, it sounds like there would be people saying that regardless of which way she decided to go.

  153. 153.

    Eolirin

    @Kay: It wouldn’t have been easy for him to tell the truth, as that would have created a very visible conflict of interest given that he’s overseeing Jan 6th related cases.

    And he wouldn’t have recused under any circumstance, so it would have deepened the credibility crisis the court is already dealing with.

    Or put another way, that he lied about the reasons for that flag is an indication that the push back on the ethics issues the court is facing is having an effect. Not enough to get them to act ethically, but enough that they’re putting more effort into trying to look less brazen about it.

  154. 154.

    Baud

    @Kay:

    The truth is probably that the flag was his idea or at a minimum he approved it wholeheartedly.  That wouldn’t be benefit him.  He’s much better off saying all the other evidence is a lie.  It’s how all Republicans are.

    Same reason he doesn’t admit he leaked Dobbs.

  155. 155.

    Kay

    @Geminid:

    The blunt fact is the anti choice movement is grounded in lies. They lie constantly. IMO it comes from the arrogant belief religious extremists of any stripe hold, where they can lie to non believers and it doesn’t “count” because we’re lesser humans. I have run into this my entire life. But it’s really hard to persuade Right-leaning women that they lie. So this kind of shortcut – an up or down vote- could be really helpful.

  157. 157.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Suzanne:

    this is the kind of decision-making that happens that makes people say “both sides are the same!” and “they’re all bad, I don’t want to vote for any of these assholes”

    Hard disagree. The kind of people who say that are woefully mis/uninformed and don’t actually have a grasp of the facts, and most of the time, don’t actually care about the facts. They’re arguing from a place of privilege. If you drop a party that is about protecting core freedoms and advancing economic benefits to the working- and middle-classes because of one or two bad decisions or policies you disagree with , then you’re either stupid or so privileged you don’t GAF about other people. Or yourself, even. (Like the young women at the primaries on Tuesday who are registered Republicans. Aagh!)

    I don’t know enough to judge Hochul’s decision on this issue, although she has made some questionable decisions in the past, and the NYS Democratic Party appears to be a mess. I hope they get their act together soonest.

  158. 158.

    Suzanne

    @Baud: Yes, I am sure that Governor Hochul is trying to balance her interests.

    I don’t feel bad for her at all. If you don’t want to do hard things, don’t run for a hard job.

  159. 159.

    TBone

    More commemorative china plates for my J6 collection on the way!

    Retired NASCAR driver and Pen Argyl resident Tighe Scott, and his son, were among four Pennsylvania men arrested Wednesday on charges related to their alleged roles in the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol.

  160. 160.

    Baud

    @Kay:

    They’re already pre-saved, and when they’re at the pearly gates, is God going to give them a herd time because they lied in order to save babies?

    I’m not them, but I get where they’re coming from.

  162. 162.

    RaflW

    Via Heather Cox Richardson, what the f– is this f–kery? Judge Loose Cannon is re-opening a settled question, which is a plain as day attempt to 1) add further delay and 2) try again to bounce Jack Smith. When the hell can Smith get her off this case (and Democrats have got to impeach her if given the chance in 2025).

    Judge Aileen Cannon not only has put off hearings, she has added a hearing on June 21 to consider whether Special Counsel Jack Smith was properly appointed in the first place. She is revisiting a decision already decided in the affirmative in 2019 by the Washington, D.C., Court of Appeals.

  163. 163.

    Kay

    @Belafon:

    Then you get an hour or two of your life back. Maybe take your kids to school, where you couldn’t before, or pick them up an hour earlier from day care. Huge.

    I remember when Chris Christie opposed federal money for a tunnel and economists talked about this- the cumulative hours people in congested areas spend on drive time. They’ll be sitting next to millionaires in traffic for “free”, that’s true, so it will be equal, but their time is worth something. To their lives.

  164. 164.

    gene108

    @Suzanne:

    Yes, it’s about congestion pricing……Suburbanites are happy, though!

    If government wants me to or businesses or anybody to make a lifestyle change, there needs to be a reasonable alternative.

    NY is going to jack-up tolls with a future promise MTA will effectively expand mass transit within Manhattan and to Long Island the suburbs, while leaving NJ out to dry.

    So what’s someone to do in the meantime?

    Also, it’s a terrible idea in an election year in NY when retaking the House hinges on winning a couple of swing districts in the NYC suburbs and Long Island that Republicans flipped in 2022.

    My state of NJ banned the use of stores using plastic bags to bag groceries, etc. two years ago. The alternative was getting reusable bags and taking them with you to the grocery store. A minor change and not much of a hassle.

  165. 165.

    hueyplong

    I’m not following the thinking here about the NYC issues.  Most of us blame the 2022 NY congressional elections for the failure to have Speaker Jeffries.  So they do something unpalatable (to long range thinking) in order to get it back in a perfect (Trumpian) election year in which to bring Dem voters home, and this board doesn’t like that, either.

    It’s true, as has been said above, that there is no reason to have power if you’re not going to wield it for good, but the point is that our side does not yet have power in the House.  We’d like to.  It seems like Hochul, irritating as she can be, is acting in a way designed to increase the size of the NY delegation in a make-or-break election year.

    Maybe the calculation is actually selfish and craven and not really the type of “strategery” outlined above, but it has that effect.  So I’m a lot less bothered than are others.

    Just one non-NY rube’s opinion.

  169. 169.

    smith

    @TBone: It’s heartening to see  that these traitors are still being tracked down, not only because it serves justice, but also because it keeps the Goobers too scared to try to start another J6.

  170. 170.

    gene108

    @Kay:

    I remember when Chris Christie opposed federal money for a tunnel and economists talked about this- the cumulative hours people in congested areas spend on drive time.

    The money was for an additional train tunnel under the Hudson River. Primary benefit is for Amtrak to make traveling the DC-to-Boston corridor faster. The NJ and NY delegations got the money eventually, and construction is currently on going.

    This was in 2010, after Christie became governor and started the string of Republican governors rejecting free ARRA money for infrastructure projects.

    One thing that gets overlooked in the recovery of the Great Recession is when Republicans took over state governments, they cut taxes, which led to many state and local government employees being fired. I think at some point from 2011 to 2012 there was one public sector job lost for every private sector job gained.

    When Christie came in he eliminated the millionaire’s tax that generated $800 million per year in revenue. The immediate noticeable result of this was to force teachers into early retirement and layoffs of teachers. Job security used to a benefit for teachers.

    The Great Recession took that away, and I don’t think it’s really comeback.

  171. 171.

    Betty

    @Baud: Kudos to Erin Burnett and CNN for a good interview on the questionable statements of Mr. Alito. Sounds like he too is afraid of his wife .

  172. 172.

    Suzanne

    @O. Felix Culpa: The kind of people who say stuff like this are normies. They are people who do not follow issues deeply, who don’t really have any coherent political philosophy other than just wanting shit to work. Trains, literally, to run on time.

    Are they privileged? Absolutely. We still need to do the right thing.

  174. 174.

    TBone

    @MomSense: 😍 ooooh so lovely.  SO lovely!  I know it takes a lotta work when you move, to make it YOUR home.  You’re starting with great bones and every ounce of your effort will pay off big-time!  I had wallpaper similar to that in my girlhood bedroom.  I think I’d read a novel that sparked a desire for it (Anne of Green Gables, maybe?) and when my mom showed me my new room I was in HEAVEN.  Thank you for sharing 💙💙💙

  175. 175.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Suzanne: Sometimes doing the right thing involves taking the long view. Most of the NY area residents on this blog appear to have a less negative take on Hochul’s decision, for various reasons.  I agree overall that congestion pricing is a good thing,  but I’ll go with the locals’ view for now.

  176. 176.

    Eolirin

    @Suzanne: There were also lawsuits that could have blocked or delayed its implementation too. As long as the MTA gets its money, that’s the biggest thing. Those public transit improvements are very necessary. So I’ll take whatever leads to success there as a win.

  177. 177.

    Soprano2

    @NotMax: I’ve read about her. I haven’t seen any of her ads, I’ve mostly been seeing ads for the governor’s race on the 10 o’clock news.

  178. 178.

    TBone

    @RedDirtGirl: JEALOUS!  Enjoy enjoy enjoy!!!  Life is a banquet, a feast, and Maine is THE place to be for summer ⛱️.  It has it ALL, mountains, lakes, beaches, streams, seafood, fresh produce, oh did I mention the ICE CREAM?  There’s an ice cream place on Mt. Desert Island that serves the best I’ve ever had.  I’ll see if I can find the name of it.

    I believe it’s called Udder Heaven. Yup, that’s it.

    https://udderheaven.com/

  179. 179.

    O. Felix Culpa

     

    @Suzanne:

    To respond more directly to your point, normies in the NYC area might be just as likely to applaud Hochul’s decision as they are to oppose it. We don’t have enough (any?) info on their positions on the issue.

  180. 180.

    Soprano2

    @Suzanne: I think she’s afraid it will affect the Congressional races where Democrats are trying to win seats back, even though it has nothing to do with Congress. Too many people are ignorant of how the government functions, they think there’s this amorphous thing called “government” and it’s all one thing, so they think a member of Congress has something to do with congestion pricing in New York City. It’s not an unreasonable concern, unfortunately.

  181. 181.

    dirge

    @Suzanne: Working-class people who live outside the city aren’t the ones paying $50/day to drive in and park.

    I have a hard time imagining what sort of person really wants to drive into manhattan on a regular basis, even if the cost is irrelevant to them.  Traffic is infuriating, free parking is an interminable search, and $50 (less bridge or tunnel tolls) will get you an hour or two in a garage, if they have room.

    The subway is cheap, fast, and reliable.  Even most very wealthy commuters who own silly expensive cars mostly use them to drive away from the city, and get to work on the PATH, LIRR, Metro North, then subway, or maybe Uber if they’ve really got money to burn.

    For me, congestion tolls actually might tip the balance in favor of driving, on the rare occasion when there’s some reason to prefer it.  I’d just figure that’s the price I’m paying to make traffic and parking sane enough to bother with.

  182. 182.

    Baud

    @Soprano2:

    It’s not just ignorance. US political culture encourages collective accountability against Dems.  Someone in Florida will vote against a Dem there based on something a Dem did in Oregon.  The culture traditionally treats Republicans differently.  It’s why MTG and even Trump isn’t as much of a liability to other Republicans as they should be.

  183. 183.

    Soprano2

    Man, a $300 service appointment for my car turned into a $1,300 service because they think they found where gaskets are leaking oil (plus a couple of other services that need to be done), so maybe they found the source of my oil leak. I guess we’ll find out. I’d rather keep my paid-for car than get a new vehicle if I can, but I’m not keeping it if it’s still leaking oil.

  184. 184.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @gene108:

    One final note on a subject in yet another hijacked comment thread cuz of the pet advocacy of one commenter (not you):

    The reaction of public sector unions in NYC has been telling. The NYC Municipal Labor Committee, which is a coalition of the largest unions, is against the tax and signed onto one of the lawsuits that were filed. The United Federation of Teachers in NYC signed onto the main lawsuit against CP. Even the MTA’s largest union is against the tax.

    But no, let’s have a bougie, white architect from out of state inform everybody how actual, working class New Yorkers feel about the tax.

    And to beat this dead horse of a point: if you look at the interests behind CP, rideshare companies and some of the biggest real estate interests in the five boroughs, it’s clear this has *nothing* to do with reducing congestion.  If this were more like what Stockholm did, and that’s do something for a very, very small, core area, yunno like Manhattan, then there probably wouldn’t have been the outcry and lawsuits.  But nope, it’s not about that.  It’s regressive.  There are far better approaches that could have been taken and were aired during the pushback.

  186. 186.

    Eolirin

    @Kay: You’re not driving into lower Manhattan as part of a daily commute if you’re a fast food worker, or really any kind of low wage worker. You’re taking transit.

    So it’s a bit moot anyway.

    Driving in the city is really for people of means or for people who live outside of it and want to go shopping or see a broadway show or are going to a specialist doctor or something like that. Unless you absolutely need to do so as part of your job.

    It’s a huge pain in the ass to drive in the city, super congested, it’s very difficult and expensive to park, and you’re probably going to need to use transit or walk for part of your trip anyway. If you’re a normal person and can avoid having to drive in the city, you do, as a general rule.

  187. 187.

    Jeffro

    @Soprano2:I guess some of them think TCFG should have won 100% of the vote in that county. It’s crazy.

    right??!?

    “I’m not a Democrat and none of my friends and relatives are Democrats; therefore, there should be 0% Democratic votes counted AND SOMEHOW BIDEN GOT 18%!!!”

    I don’t know whether we need to focus on basic civics education or basic logic with these people, but man…

  188. 188.

    Eolirin

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage: Except it did exactly that? It would have only applied to Manhattan and only below 60th street?

    It even exempted the West Side Highway, and the FDR Drive, along with the Battery Tunnel, so it wouldn’t have increased costs for people traveling around that zone, only into it.

  189. 189.

    dirge

    @Kay: If you’re a plumber going from place to place less time in traffic at 0 dollars an hour means more time at 50 dollars an hour.

    If you’re a plumber serving manhattan, you’re billing a lot more than $50/hr.

  191. 191.

    Suzanne

    @O. Felix Culpa: All the info that I have seen indicates that actual city residents are somewhat divided on the issue, but the suburbanites H A T E it.

    Supporters of congestion pricing nearly doubled the number of people opposed to the forthcoming tolls during the MTA’s final round of public input, according to an internal MTA document that collated comments submitted both online and in person.

    Out of 25,628 comments received regarding the proposed $15 peak-hour toll to drive into Manhattan below 60th Street, 15,604 — or 60 percent — expressed support for the toll, its proposed pricing or the concept of congestion pricing generally. The same list showed 8,223 comments — or 32 percent — opposed the toll or its price.

    An additional 8 percent of comments were classified as “neutral, questions, irrelevant to the toll altogether, or otherwise unclear,” according to the document.

    Per NYT:

    The standard rap against congestion pricing is that it will harm the poor and working class. New York’s blue-ribbon panel dealt with that in part by proposing a 50 percent discount — open to people with household incomes under $50,000 — on the daytime auto toll after the first 10 trips made by a vehicle in a calendar month. That’s likely to be a small number of people, since the panel estimates that only 1 percent of people who drive to work in the congestion zone have incomes that low. (Yes, Manhattan is kind of different.)
    More important, lower-income workers will benefit from improvements to public transportation, especially the subway, which they use extensively. On average, richer people drive into Manhattan more than poorer people do.

  192. 192.

    Kay

    @chrome agnomen:

    Right? I just meant “hourly workers and people who charge by the hour”. Tradespeople probably bump up rates in very congested areas to make up for drive time anyway, but someone has to pay for the time they’re spending sitting in traffic when they can’t be billing. It’s not “free”.

  193. 193.

    Tom Levenson

    @NotMax: That D-Day cocktail!

    I think I’d rather dodge artillery…

    (To add: the French 75 is the best cannon fire-cocktail crossover. I will (metaphorically, I hope) die on that hill.)

  194. 194.

    Jeffro

    @Theflippsyd:

    I am not a native Delawarean — so this is a non-native’s observations about Northern Delaware… I always joke that there aren’t six degrees of separation in Delaware — more like 2 or 3. It is a community where everyone knows everyone else …Before he became VP, President Biden would stop at the DD across from where I worked. Co-workers would go over to say hello. Delawareans are generally very polite, and even those individuals who don’t agree with him, generally will talk with him if they see him out and about.  “Everybody” has a meeting Joe Biden story.

    I’m not a DE native either, but Mrs. Fro and I lived up there for about 18 years, and this was 100% our experience too.

    The entire state of Delaware has hundreds of thousands fewer people than Fairfax County, VA.  Two senators, though(!)

  195. 195.

    Suzanne

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage:

    One final note on a subject in yet another hijacked comment thread cuz of the pet advocacy of one commenter (not you): 

    Yes, hi, I hijacked an open thread with an actual political issue of current salience on a politics blog.

    I now return you to your busy schedule of working-class cosplay in one of America’s wealthiest cities, friend.

  196. 196.

    A Librarian

    Just to add to the discussion about Hochul: there were a few lawsuits pending against congestion pricing, one of the first of which being Local 2 of the AFT. (Disclaimer: I’m a member of said local.) One of leadership’s big arguments was that, by implementing congestion pricing as it was, there would be an increase in congestion in the outer boroughs and that, in turn, the predicted shifts in traffic patterns would cause the neighborhoods already most impacted by poor air quality to deal with further air pollution due to said shifts.

    That being said, support for the lawsuit was fairly controversial within the union local itself, especially as many teachers and other school staff live outside NYC and instead commute from New Jersey, Long Island, or Staten Island. (That, outside of New Jersey, these also happen to be some of the most heavily Republican areas downstate probably doesn’t help, though correlation is not causation, coincidences happen, etc.)

    There’s also a lot to be said about how the MTA is structured, the role of state oversight over a NYC-based service, and allegations of financial malfeasance on the part of MTA leadership, but that’s another story…

  197. 197.

    Kay

    @chrome agnomen:

    I tell young people I encounter in the court system who have something on the ball to look into elevator repair. There are no elevator repair people left! This is a very lucrative job. My son who is in trades told me “they’re weird so no one wants to train with them”. I asked how they were weird and he said “I can’t talk about it” but he has a dry sense of humor and lives to make fun of me so he may have just been fucking with me.

  198. 198.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Eolirin:

    Based on the NYC people I network with on housing justice issues, they might have been swayed if other approaches than a regressive tax that impacted their ability to move around within NYC proper were proposed–there’s a ton of traffic outside the zone but within the boroughs that would have been affected apparently.

    Small businesses w/i the zone really hated it because they felt most of their business traffic came via auto, not mass transit.

    And as I’ve said repeatedly, New Yorkers in the boroughs thoroughly distrusted it cuz of it’s backers.  Not everybody wants to be dependent on ride share companies, for example.

  199. 199.

    rikyrah

    @Suzanne:

    I thought that NYC collected an income tax from everyone who actually works in NYC, including commuters who don’t reside in NYC.

    They were considering trying that in Chicago. It never went anywhere, but, I thought NYC was the example given to try and justify it.

  200. 200.

    Geminid

    @Kay: Republican Senate leaders complained that the this was a “messaging bill,” in an election year. My response was, “Ya think?” but then I saw that Lisa Murkowski had a better one:

       If it is going to be a messaging bill, then I want my message to be very clear that a woman has a right to contaception. It’s as simple as that for me.

    According to Alaska Public Radio, Murkowski’s fellow Alaska Senator’s message was less clear:

       Dan Sullivan, R-Alaska, did not vote on the contraception bill, despite casting other votes against Biden administration nominations a few hours earlier. His office wouldn’t say why he wasn’t there for the contraception vote or how he would have voted.

  202. 202.

    Suzanne

    @rikyrah: New York State has a nonresident income tax, yes. It’s less than the resident income tax and it only applies to income earned in New York State.

  203. 203.

    UncleEbeneezer

    Just a heads-up/warning to anyone who happens to still be on Twitter.  There’s a user named Marcus Swann that is semi-popular who is showing his racist ass.  First he defended Kyle Rittenhouse for “obvious self defense” and now he’s bashing Ibram X Kendi and the very concept of anti-racism.  He also uses “intersectionality brain” as an insult.  I wouldn’t take anything he says about race seriously and I would seriously consider unfollowing/blocking him to avoid accidentally signal-boosting his bullshit.

  206. 206.

    dirge

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage: A couple of activists did some sample tests going from various Point A to Point B activities.  Something that might take 40 minutes by car would take 2+ hours by mass transit.

    I’m willing to believe this is true in some neighborhoods that are particularly ill-served by the transit network, but it’s absolutely not true of the metro region generally, particularly for trips to, from, or in downtown.  I’ve been driving and using the transit system here for a couple decades, and the occasions when driving is faster are very, very few and far between, and are pretty much always during off-peak hours.

    You can try it out yourself on google maps, which is actually pretty good about estimating travel times.  I’m usually looking at something like 42 to 45 minutes by subway, vs 35 to 110 minutes by car.

    I strongly suspect your activists are disingenuously cherry-picking data.

  207. 207.

    rikyrah

    Reecie @BlackWomenViews (@ReecieColbert) posted at 0:26 AM on Thu, Jun 06, 2024:
    After @claycane laid out how insidious it is that the 1866 Civil Rights Act was weaponized against the Black woman Fearless Fund, I just had to point out that these  Nationalists aren’t gonna be satisfied unless we have NOTHING. Unfortunately for us, they are far more engaged, disciplined, relentless, and determined to subjugate us than we are to do the bare minimum things like vote our capacity. If we don’t wake TF up to the unraveling of hard fought gains, we are gonna be up sh*t creek. #claycaneshow @urbanviewradio

    Watch the full clip, especially to get the history lesson on the reconstruction era Civil Rights Act on Clay Cane’s YouTube Channel or listen on the SiriusXM app on demand.
    ,… https://t.co/AQnIBf9XHI
    (https://x.com/ReecieColbert/status/1798587315570274709?t=zT256gEY3fNGUR04mid37w&s=03)

  209. 209.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Kay:

    There are no elevator repair people left!

    So you’re telling us we should be taking the stairs, not just for the cardio/exercise benefit but for safety reasons? ;)

    What you’re suggesting for some of the “on the ball” people is parallel to a presentation I saw a couple of months back at our statewide Preservation Conference.  There are some plans/groups, still very much in their infancy, wanting to get people trained in the trades but more specifically, preservation work.

    There’s vast demand for it.

  212. 212.

    rikyrah

    like we don’t see this bullshyt.

     

    Tell Hamas – ACCEPT CEASEFIRE NOW!!! (@What46HasDone) posted at 4:44 PM on Wed, Jun 05, 2024:
    I’ve seen a lot of journalistic malpractice this last 4 years, but the @WSJ having Democrats sit for on the record interviews with them and not publishing any of them because they dispute their agenda on Biden’s age is a new level disgraceful that really shouldn’t be ignored.
    (https://x.com/What46HasDone/status/1798471040047423677?s=02)

  216. 216.

    Eolirin

    @Suzanne: That’s because residents typically don’t drive into Manhattan, if they even own a car. Car ownership costs if you’re not in one of the few very expensive parts of the city that give you parking are very high. Most lower income (and by lower, we’re still talking pretty decent wages anywhere else) people in NYC won’t even own cars.

    For context for people who don’t have experience with the city, parking in Manhattan is a nightmare, and expensive if you’re not very lucky on finding a metered space, and driving there sucks.

    For most normal people it is impractical to commute by car into the zone this would cover.

    To give you the proper sense of how residents typically treat having to drive into Manhattan, my Aunt, who worked finance and has quite a lot of money, and owns a proper house in a high end part of Brooklyn and owns a car, but doesn’t have private chauffeur money, still takes the bus and subway into Manhattan. Because you just do not drive yourself into Manhattan if you can avoid it, it is not worth the pain of doing so.

    Transit is cheaper in the city for workers, and especially if they’re residents.

  218. 218.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: Yes, because it’s something almost everyone uses or has used and it’s not “icky” like abortion was seen as being.

  219. 219.

    jowriter

    @hueyplong: You are correct.  We lost Dem seats in the near-NYC suburbs and must get them back.  Launching CP at this moment is not smart; it’s terrible timing in a crucial election year and the media will be full of complaining commuters.  Westchester and Rockland should be represented by Dems; the 2022 loss was quite narrow here.  Republicans will say and do anything to win.  Dems have to fight for those seats; if it means waiting a bit longer for CP, so be it.

  220. 220.

    Suzanne

    @Eolirin: I understand. I grew up in Huntington (on Long Island), and SuzMom was one of those working-class commuters into the city. She took the LIRR and the subway. She couldn’t afford to drive.

    Before that, my grandfather commuted from Huntington into NYC daily for 30 years. They bought the house because it was within walking distance to the train station. It blows my mind that Huntington is posh now.

  221. 221.

    rikyrah

    We saw this muthaphucka in 2016 and what he did….
    That he’s trying to pull this same bullshyt in 2024?
    Hell no.

    John V. Moore (@johnvmoore) posted at 0:32 PM on Wed, Jun 05, 2024:
    LOL Eddie Glaude is using his platform, as he did in 2016, to help convicted felon Trump. And then when Trump wins he is be the darling of white liberals for his eloquent & passionate sermons on MSNBC about life under convicted felon Trump.

    It’s about his bookings Son.
    (https://x.com/johnvmoore/status/1798407640231395767?t=3fa7I8esJj-rlgF7o1pRHg&s=03)

  222. 222.

    wjca

    @lowtechcyclist: they will replace the current clerk, who has served for over two decades, with someone who doesn’t know jack shit about how to do the job.

    It will be no surprise if that incompetence results in fewer total votes for TCFG.  Even, perhaps, no votes at all, due to the results not getting reported in a timely manner.

    Shooting themselves in the foot seems to be a core competency with these folks.

  223. 223.

    Eolirin

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage: I’m sure retail wasn’t happy with it. They’d definitely be at the highest risk for negative consequences.

    I’m not sure that the kind of revenue that those businesses pull in would be able to be considered small in most parts of the country though.

    And funding MTA upgrades is much more important than their loss of revenue. Which is likely only going to be at the margins.  A $15 a day toll isn’t going to turn that part of Manhattan into a dead zone. I think it’s likely to fail to some degree at its stated goal of reducing congestion even. But it’d raise a lot of money and that’s kind of the point.

  224. 224.

    laura

    @Kay: This is the most recent Union that I worked for, and they conduct a bi-annual exam for entrance into the apprenticeship program. The line to get applications in goes on for blocks- there’s that much interest in applying: https://local39training.org/appabout.html

    Graduates earn north of 100k with excellent benefits and a pension that’s funded in the 90% range. The work is mostly post-construction building operations and maintenance, water treatment and bio-med (maintaining anesthesia equipment to a standard). It’s as good a job as is possible to get and I was privileged to work for them. The master contract is a thing of beauty!

    Keep pushing the trades Kay- there’s good honest work to be done all over the country.

  226. 226.

    Ghost of Joe Liebling’s Dog

    @Kay:

    There are no elevator repair people left! This is a very lucrative job. My son who is in trades told me “they’re weird so no one wants to train with them”. I asked how they were weird and he said “I can’t talk about it”

    Well, they’re known to have their ups and downs.

  227. 227.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Eolirin:

    Back to my earlier comment, there are other ways to raise that money and that’s one area the people objecting to it were pushing back on.  It’s seen as a regressive tax targeting many people who can afford it the least.  The counter argument by some has been look at the increased payroll mobility tax, casino money, MTA’s overtime expenditures and fare/toll evasion.

    It’s down-in-the-weeds stuff and has been said above, we could talk extensively just about MTA as a core part of any mass transit “reform”.

    @Soprano2:

    To me the most obvious reason is a kind of regulatory capture for the rideshare companies.  That’s been repeatedly laid out by the people there pushing back on this.  There’s a definite “anti-private-car-ownership” agenda that obviously the rideshare companies encourage and they poured a ton of money into a campaign advocating for this.

    There’s also an element of racial politics that’s been expressed ala CP is being advocated by corporate interests [which is certainly the case] that want only the right kind of people in NYC and view minorities patronizingly.  It’s not unlike what I was saying the other day about local community pushback against “mitigation” plans vis a vis the interstates in poor communities.  Such actions are being done, theoretically, to address issues of the past and how such communities now see them as nothing more than “gentrification catalysts”.  That aspect of this I leave to the locals but pass along as something that’s been a part of the pushback messaging.

  228. 228.

    TBone

    Is today the day Basement Bannon becomes residential?

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/judge-to-decide-if-steve-bannon-should-go-to-prison-during-appeal/ar-BB1nJZMT

    Peter Navarro can’t weigh in right now 😆

    Last month, an appeals court disagreed with his arguments and ruled Bannon’s “‘advice of counsel’ defense is no defense at all.” The three-judge panel in the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals unanimously upheld the jury’s conviction and wrote the defense he sought was “unavailable under this statute.”

  229. 229.

    Suzanne

    @Eolirin: God, I remember, as a kid, where we lived was super-sketchy. My mom’s Mazda GLC got stripped for parts in our driveway, twice. One night, we heard a loud boom, and it was the Helping Hand mission two blocks away exploding. All kinds of shit. But hey, it was the 80s. It makes me laugh that it’s expensive now.

  230. 230.

    Eolirin

    @Kay: In NYC at least, getting into elevator repair is extremely gatekept by one of the most virulently racist, criminally adjacent, unions in the state. Up there with the NYPD.

    It’s also really hard physical labor. It does pay very well though, for sure.

  231. 231.

    Eolirin

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage: I’m going to repeat, the overwhelming majority of actual lower income NYC residents already do not own cars. And those that do definitely don’t drive them into lower Manhattan.

    I’m more sensitive to concerns around driving pattern changes resulting in more air pollution in under privileged areas but I’d really need to see the environmental impact studies.

  232. 232.

    Eolirin

    @Suzanne: I was in a somewhat nicer part of the county for most of my youth at least, but I have a healthy loathing of the area for the racism and antisemitism that went along with that.

    We’re about the same age too.

  233. 233.

    tam1MI

    Could someone kindly explain to me what this whole “congestion pricing” kerfuffle in New York was all about?

  234. 234.

    Eolirin

    @tam1MI: NYC was set to institute a $15 a day toll on anyone driving in lower Manhattan as a way of raising money for some very necessary public transit updates. Govenor Hochul has indefinitely paused the implementation of that toll going into effect.

  235. 235.

    Suzanne

    @Eolirin: So my immediate area was very racially diverse. I know my grandparents hated it for that, which was part of the draw of Arizona. They and my mom were really scared of the crime. SuzMom was snatched off the side of the road when she was walking down a street near there, and she fought the driver, and he threw her out onto the roadside a couple of blocks down. They had this fantasy that getting away from NY would get us away from all that shit.

    Fast forward a few years, and I took a full scholarship to the University of Arizona, which is in Tucson….. which had the highest crime rate in the country at that time.

  237. 237.

    Suzanne

    @tam1MI: To add a small amount of detail….. the congestion pricing scheme was limited to Manhattan south of 60th Street, and only certain hours of the day.

    The goals were multi: to raise money for the MTA by putting essentially a tax on car commuters (many of whom do not live in New York), to reduce auto pollution and carbon emissions, and to reduce traffic in the city’s densest areas.

  238. 238.

    Eolirin

    @Baud: I believe there was a time of day component to it too. So there kind of is. But it’s binary. Either active or not. 

  241. 241.

    sdhays

    @Baud: My assumption is that he personally went out and bought a new flag specifically for this purpose, hoisted it himself, and didn’t tell his wife because she was busy performing blood sacrifices in their basement.

    Occam’s Razor!

  242. 242.

    Eolirin

    @Suzanne: Yeah, but I get that. Humans are very bad at statistical reasoning and threat assessment. Having something that scary happen to you personally is a really strong signal in a way that crime stats never will be.

  243. 243.

    dirge

    @A Librarian: One of leadership’s big arguments was that, by implementing congestion pricing as it was, there would be an increase in congestion in the outer boroughs…

    I’m generally in favor, but legitimately concerned about diverting traffic from manhattan onto the already overburdened BQE.  But I gather that the FDR is exempt, so I’m not sure how much that’d happen.

  244. 244.

    Kay

    I could see this coming – Dem aligned groups have been moving in this direction- but it’s a very strong statement. I’m surprised :

    The NAACP formally urged President Joe Biden today to “indefinitely” halt all weapons deliveries to Israel and pressure the U.S. ally to end its war in the Gaza Strip, sending a reminder that his support for Israel could hurt him among Black voters in November’s election.

  245. 245.

    Fair Economist

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage:

    Seeing so many fauxgressives sad about Hochul canceling congestion pricing is hysterical.

    It was pushed by rideshare companies like Uber, Lyft, CitiBike and real estate interests. It would hurt working class folks who can’t live in the city. A better solution for transit funding is taxes.

    Oh, please. Working class people don’t drive in NYC; It’s too expensive to park.

    Congestion pricing *is* a tax, anyway, and the best kind: it’s directed at well-off people, because that’s who drives in a borough where driving is about 15% of trips. (It’s 30% citywide but much less in Manhattan). *Plus* it’s economically efficient; congestion prices reduce congestion, so there’s improvements for those who *do* drive.

  246. 246.

    Fair Economist

    @A Librarian:

    One of leadership’s big arguments was that, by implementing congestion pricing as it was, there would be an increase in congestion in the outer boroughs and that,

    That’s pretty silly: are they saying people are going to drive to Brooklyn and then walk to where they’re going in Manhattan? And if they could they’re driving all the way through Brooklyn *right now* so there’s not really any loss anyway.

  247. 247.

    Kay

    @laura:

    and bio-med (maintaining anesthesia equipment to a standard).

    Now THAT I wouldn’t have guessed. I recently had to get a CT scan and I thought “I wonder who fixes/calibrates all these imaging machines?” I Bet that’s good work and a lot of it.

  248. 248.

    Fair Economist

    @Geminid:

    Republican Senate leaders complained that the this was a “messaging bill,” in an election year. My response was, “Ya think?” but then I saw that Lisa Murkowski had a better one:

       If it is going to be a messaging bill, then I want my message to be very clear that a woman has a right to contraception. It’s as simple as that for me.

    And, note Susan Collins did *not* want to send that message.

  249. 249.

    laura

    @Kay: it’s a mission critical job and the recordation is as important as the calibration. Few, if any people would even know it’s “A Thing.” The skill set of the stationary engineers is broad and they are in high demand. We also almost always had a strike going on and Always strike over health care and pension contributions. Even though I only worked on the public sector side of the Local, I loved negotiations and Member representations. Though I retired, not a day goes by that I’m still thinking about my Members. That so many were big fans of the orange churl shaddens me every day too.

  250. 250.

    dirge

    @Fair Economist: are they saying people are going to drive to Brooklyn and then walk to where they’re going in Manhattan?

    No, the concern is that people who would otherwise drive through Manhattan will instead drive around through the outer boroughs.  The clearest example would be diverting traffic from the FDR to the BQE, which would indeed be bad, but I gather the congestion toll wouldn’t apply to through traffic on the FDR.  The east/west examples seem a little strained to me, but I can imagine somewhat legitimate concerns about diverting holland tunnel to downtown brooklyn traffic to Staten Island and south Brooklyn.  Devil’s in the details, of course, but I doubt it’s a real problem unless they’ve really screwed up the details.

  251. 251.

    Suzanne

    @Kay: Biomed is a significant department in every hospital. They don’t just do imaging equipment….. they are responsible for testing, servicing, and storing almost everything in the hospital.

  252. 252.

    Geminid

    @Fair Economist: Collins is such a wimp.

    I haven’t seen info on the vote, but Murkowski may have cast the only Republican vote for the bill. It sounds like a half dozen or more just hid out.

  253. 253.

    dirge

    @dirge:

    Actually, now that I think about it, if exemptions for through traffic are properly designed (hope springs eternal), one may well see the reverse effect.  It’s already faster in many cases to cross into manhattan, take the FDR, then cross back to Brooklyn or Queens.  If you reduce commuter traffic on the FDR, that’s an even more attractive alternative, likely reducing congestion on the other side of the river.

  254. 254.

    strange visitor (from another planet)

    yeeeeesh.

    ok. so hochul is from the west end of the state. the more conservative part of…

    i dunno if  you guys get it. ny is NOT a “liberal” state. nyc is BARELY a liberal city. it’s a democratic state, but (beyond wall street) there’s a fuckton of cranky old money in the city and the rest of the state is largely agrarian outside small urban pockets.

    ….our redistricting got scrambled by a cuomo judge right before the election, leaving many of the house candidates flat-footed and suddenly in NEW districts. they weren’t complacent. i went from having the old (and short) war-horse nadler to electing goldman for his first term in the blink of an eye.

    but yeah. jersey people, ct people, staten islanders who might as well be jersey people and the fuckfaces out on LI hated congestion pricing. fuck them. they don’t live here. they don’t have to breathe the fumes of idling cars stuck in traffic or dodge inattentive drivers while crossing the damn streets. if it gets badly needed money to the MTA, the majority of city-dwellers will cheer it.

    the plan IS good for the city. the fewer cars, the better. hochul isn’t very good at her job, but if hochul’s holdup gets more people in the hudson valley to vote for house democrats, so be it.

    eta- mz visitor and i live in a pre-war, six floor stack off ocean parkway. our elevator is broken ALL the time (luckily we’re on the second floor, so it’s an easy hop up).

  255. 255.

    Geminid

    @Kay: There’s a Turkish engineer I follow on Twitter, Bora Bingol, and we’ve conversed some. Bingol graduated from the Turkish naval academy in 1994 with degrees in electrical engineering and IT and spent 7 years as a junior officer until he cracked under the pressure. He said his ship was like “Full Metal Jacket.”

    After he left the Navy, Bingol made a career in the medical industry. His business involves calibration and quality control for medical equipment.

Comments are closed.