Rest in peace, Bill Anders of Apollo 8.
Anders was one of the first three humans to travel to the Moon and captured one of the most iconic, inspirational, and influential photos of all time, titled Earthrise.
Legendary astronaut and photographer. A hero for me and many. pic.twitter.com/EF7ddTImze
— John Kraus (@johnkrausphotos) June 7, 2024
Per CNN, “Apollo 8 astronaut William Anders, who took iconic ‘Earthrise’ photo, dies in plane crash”:
… The San Juan County Sheriff’s Office said in a news release an aircraft went down off the coast of Jones Island.
The dispatch center got an initial report around 11:40 a.m. PT, which said an “older model plane was flying from north to south then went into the water near the north end of Jones Island and sunk,” the sheriff’s office said.
The United States Coast Guard later announced the pilot’s body was recovered by a dive team after an hourslong search that involved multiple agencies and covered 215 nautical miles. The San Juan Islands are located about 90 miles north of Seattle.
William Anders, born on October 17, 1933, in Hong Kong, graduated from the United States Naval Academy in 1955 and after being commissioned in the US Air Force, he earned his pilot’s wings the following year, according to the US Naval Academy’s website…
He was selected in 1964 as an astronaut by NASA and served as backup pilot for the Gemini 11 mission in 1966 and the Apollo 11 flight in 1969. Anders logged more than 6,000 hours of flying time, according to NASA.
Anders and fellow astronauts Jim Lovell and mission commander Frank Borman, who died in November 2023, flew aboard the first lunar orbit mission in December 1968 on Apollo 8. Anders served as the lunar module pilot for the historic flight.
From the spacecraft, Anders captured an iconic image of Earth showing the moon’s surface in the foreground during the Apollo 8 flight on Christmas Eve 1968, titled “Earthrise.”
“We came all this way to explore the moon, and the most important thing is that we discovered the Earth,” Anders famously said. …
In 1968, during Apollo 8, Bill Anders offered to humanity among the deepest of gifts an astronaut can give. He traveled to the threshold of the Moon and helped all of us see something else: ourselves. He embodied the lessons and the purpose of exploration. We will miss him. pic.twitter.com/wuCmfHpu3g
— Bill Nelson (@SenBillNelson) June 8, 2024
OzarkHillbilly
From parched earth to landslides: crisis in the prosecco hills of Italy
Those Chinese thought of everything when they pulled this global warming hoax.
Halteclere
Wow, bill Anders was still flying at 90. I just hope to be mobile if I ever reach that age.
Geminid
@OzarkHillbilly: And to the south, prolonged drought has substantially cut into olive production in Italy and Spain, which is the world’s largest producer of olive oil.
Nukular Biskits
Good mornin’, y’all!
Nukular Biskits
@Halteclere:
Was thinking the same thing.
Spanky
@Halteclere: I would like to think he suffered a medical emergency in the air, and was gone before he hit the water.
Going out while doing what you love is the best way.
Nukular Biskits
@OzarkHillbilly: @Geminid:
A Balloon Juice classic (slightly reformatted):
Nukular Biskits
@Spanky:
I dunno.
I’d rather die peacefully in my sleep, not screaming like the other passengers in the car he was driving …
<rimshot>
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@OzarkHillbilly:
I know Asolo!
I worked one winter in Vicenza in one of the first TCP/IP-based setups in the intel system plus the first operational use of drones for photo recon (launched from the then-ancient and now long gone USS Saratoga). We were prepping to launch the air offensive against the Serbs the following spring.
That’s wonderful country as you’re out of the industrial areas surrounding Venice. To the west of Asolo is Bassano del Grappa, gorgeous place with a museum to grappa (it’s a wonder I ever got out of there the last time I visited in 2017).
Cittadella is to the SW, small town with a completely intact medieval wall.
Just south of Asolo is Castelfranco Veneto, the ruined castle there is part of a park.
Tons of Palladian mansions all over the region. It’s a wonder day-trip by car to view them.
delphinium
RIP and at least he went out doing what he enjoyed.
On another note, his fellow astronaut, Frank Borman was featured in this song by The Crystal Method.
MomSense
Mom is home. Wowza, breaking your neck is not fun. I spent the night on the couch not doing much sleeping. Lots to do today! First step is to find a recliner because I think that is the best way for her to sleep right now. I hope I can find something other than those giant ones that look like they are covered in wall to wall carpet.
ETA there is a guy just up the road flying a massive trump sign. He also feeds cats in the neighborhood which is making my head hurt. Anyway I’m not overtly hostile but I do find a way to put my hand on the side of my face in such a way that my middle finger is the only one upright.
OzarkHillbilly
That kid is no fool, he knows Sunak is going to try and take his ice cream back.
Ken
Farewell, William Anders.
These events always remind me of somewhat mournful XKCD.
Ken
The vibe I get is “Quick, find me some sort of children’s social service that we haven’t eliminated — I need a photo op.”
Jackie
MSNBC is reporting that 50 were killed in Gaza by IDF while rescuing four hostages captured by Hamas Oct 7.
No info yet if the approximate 50 killed were militants or civilians.
ETA: This is the only printed news source reporting thus far:
Lapassionara
@OzarkHillbilly: he pulled a Trump at the D-Day event, so he had to find a way to get some positive attention.
Nelle
When I read that it was an older model plane, I was reminded that my husband, an older pilot, a Navy vet, once surmised that he would (will?) like to choose that sort of ending (sky and water), when the time seems right. Except he’d hate to do that to a plane. “I’d have to get an old plane,” he surmised. If that is what happened in this case, I see it as a dignified move.
MomSense
@Ken:
I guess it dawned on him that he messed up bigly by not going to the 80th DDay remembrance right before an election. Gotta love these wicked smaht finance bros.
Kay
The new thing in Right wing circles is for grandparents to refuse to get the booster immunizations that new younger parents insist upon (they don’t want their infants to get whooping cough).
So they’re now giving up contact with their grandchildren because no one is the boss of them.
This is why these people are so miserable and angry and aways lashing out – they ruin their own fucking lives with their ideological oppositional defiance disorder. The RIGHT to give your 2 week old grandchild an infectious disease – they’ll die on this hill!
Eyeroller
Apollo 8 had two Hasselblad still cameras and a 16mm movie camera on board in addition to a TV camera. Anders was in charge of photography. One of the mission goals was to take photographs of the far side of the Moon and he was busy with the photo plan. Due to a sealant that partially decomposed in the vacuum, the main viewing windows were smeared. Only the forward-facing and small “rendezvouz windows” were clear so photographs had to be taken through them. The view of the Earth was unexpected. The Hasselblads were loaded with black-and-white film so the magazine had to be hastily changed. Anders snapped the iconic picture and then they returned to work. Since it was film they didn’t know how it would turn out till they returned and the film was developed.
Apollo 8 was the flight on which Borman famously became quite sick and made his crewmates miserable as well as himself. He attributed it to a “24 hour virus” but it is very likely to have been space sickness.
MomSense
@Kay:
I feel like the you’re not the boss of me/government is the enemy brain worm infected them in 1980 and they’ve only gotten worse.
Nukular Biskits
@Kay:
Interesting. Other than for COVID, I haven’t had a booster in … probably almost a half century. I wonder what the recommendations are for olds like me.
I do know that the last time I had a tetanus booster (around 7?), I had a reaction that swelled my right arm up.
Eyeroller
@Nelle: I very much doubt he did it deliberately but I also doubt he would have permitted passengers at his age. “Older” plane may just mean “more affordable.” Of course with an older small aircraft, mechanical failure is always a possibility, but given the age of the pilot it is also quite possible he had some medical event that caused him to lose consciousness–not necessarily to die, just to pass out–and that might be all it would take.
Baud
@Kay:
Better them than the kids.
Jeffg166
@Halteclere: I would not get on a plane with him unless I knew how to fly one.
Jeffg166
@OzarkHillbilly: Just forwarded that to a friend of mine who’s happy hour is Prosecco centered.
ArchTeryx
@Spanky: Small plane crashes like this have three main causes:
– Mechanical failure. It can happen even with the most rigorous preflight checks.
– Getting into a situation you are not able to deal with, like a VFR pilot getting into IFR conditions or running into a thunderstorm, or bad weather crashing you on takeoff or landing.
– Medical emergency in the air.
It could have been 1 or 3. He was far too good a pilot to get into 2. I hope it’s 3, and he died painlessly in the air, not on impact.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@Ken: My brain first processed it as an imaginary childcare center, so created for the photo op.
geg6
Fuck. I love Prosecco.
OzarkHillbilly
@Kay: My wife and I had no problem getting the boosters. Neither did any of the other grandparents.
Eyeroller
@Jeffg166: I suspect there was a reason he was the only occupant. He likely didn’t allow passengers, with the possible exception of another pilot, due to awareness that something could happen that would cause him to lose consciousness and crash. He just flew alone because he loved it and at 90, didn’t really care if that’s how he went out.
pat
@Eyeroller:
I doubt he would do it on purpose, knowing what a huge search operation would be necessary.
But flying an old plane at the age of 90? I do wonder how often he did that.
PaulWartenberg
Anyone able to confirm for me if astronaut Ken Mattingly owned a pet chihuahua named Fang??? My aunt Dorothy said he did but I can’t find any biographies about the man to confirm it.
Chief Oshkosh
Anders apparently was looping the plane relatively low over water and didn’t pull out. It’s unknown whether it was a physiological problem (for instance, one can easily pull enough Gs to gray-out or black-out) or a momentary loss of situational awareness.
https://youtu.be/DSSd237Wy74?si=Yd3xwsckG-5f3jDq&t=125
The plane was a Beech Mentor, an advanced trainer from the 50s, a type that he likely flew in his early Air Force days.
Blue skies and tailwinds, Mr. Anders
ETA: There’s some commentary here about the age of the pilot and the plane. This specific plane looks to have been fully restored, but hard to say when and to what standard. Mentors did have a spar problem, and there was an AD to address that (or placard restrictions to avoid high G maneuvers — I’m not sure of the details). I don’t know anything about Mr. Anders health and recency in type. He might’ve flown daily or might’ve flown once a year or once a decade. I’m sure the NTSB will investigate all of this.
rikyrah
Good Morning, Everyone 😊 😊 😊
rikyrah
Kristian Ramos (@kramos1841) posted at 9:11 AM on Fri, Jun 07, 2024:
Health Insurance is core to creating a better life, and @JoeBiden delivered for all Americans, but what he has done for Latino & Black folks is remarkable. Latino uninsurance has dropped 45%, 32.7% to 18%. Black uninsurance has been cut in half by 48% dropping 20.9% to 10.8% https://t.co/vC7zgcuS4U
(https://x.com/kramos1841/status/1799081727274750402?t=HfuxgP_r_KxpOmz6JZI5Og&s=03)
Elizabelle
Reminds me of engineer/test pilot extraordinaire Scott Crossfield’s demise in 2006. Flew the X-jets in the 1950s; first pilot at twice the speed of sound.
Aged 86; had just spoken to young USAF officers in training at Maxwell AFB in Montgomery, Alabama. Flying a single-engine Cessna 206 en route home to Virginia; encountered severe thunderstorms over Georgia, and sounds like the plane might have broken up midair.
Cause of accident was ruled to be ATC not warning him of the weather en route, and his not obtaining updated weather forecast.
Anyway: cannot be sad when those of advanced age who love the air go out in the pilot’s seat. Especially since neither caused anyone else’s loss.
Baud
@rikyrah:
Good morning.
rikyrah
@Kay:
Kay,
Absolutely ridiculous 😡
rikyrah
@MomSense:
🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽For mom
Elizabelle
@Kay: What idiocy. The new parents might be secretly relieved not to have to deal with them, too.
@Nelle: Can see why that would be an attractive option. Going out under one’s own control. Although: search and rescue mission.
rikyrah
@MomSense:
Who isn’t politically smart enough to know that going to the 80th Anniversary of D-Day is a phucking freebie that doesn’t hurt you politically in any way 😒😒😒
Moron
Eyeroller
@Chief Oshkosh: The Mentor belonged to his museum, which was largely the family’s pet project, so I’ll bet he flew fairly regularly. At least according to Wikipedia, one of his sons was in charge of the aircraft maintenance for that museum. However, it’s certainly still possible there was a mechanical failure. You also mentioned G forces, which may be harder on an elderly person.
Juju
@OzarkHillbilly: There must be something wrong with me. I had to look twice because it looked like Sushi Rinak to me. I didn’t get much sleep last night.
moonbat
@rikyrah: I think I’ve figured out the motivation for the “He’s OLD!” outrage machine.
Yeah, he’s old and he’s kicking ass on his priorities. They cannot handle it that an old guy is this effective at enacting his agenda. They’re getting beat by an old guy. lol
Elizabelle
Bill Anders had an amazing life and career. The “born in Hong Kong” caught my eye. His father was a naval officer posted there; Anders lived in Hong Kong, Annapolis, and Nanjing, China by the time he was four. He and his mother had to flee in 1937, during the second Sino-Japanese war. His father was badly injured in naval action; family eventually moved to California. Post-NASA, Anders worked in government service and the aerospace industry. He was first chairman of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission (appointed by Gerald Ford), and briefly ambassador to Norway after that. Interesting guy.
Had never heard of Mr. Anders prior to last night’s breaking news about the crash; did know of Frank Borman and Jim Lovell, of course. Rest in power.
Elizabelle
@moonbat: I’ve noticed that some reader commenters at both the WaPost and FTF NY Times have started comparing Biden to FDR.
Good. FDR was kind of old, himself, when he was rescuing us from the Great Depression and leading during WW2.
UncleEbeneezer
THIS! From the very beginning, the conversation about Gaza has almost completely ignored Hamas. Hell, if you only looked at the discourse here at BJ, you could easily come away with the impression that the two main players in this conflict are Israel/Biden and Palestinian civilians, with nary a mention of Hamas. This has always struck me as a bad faith framing, intentionally used to obscure the moral complexity of the war/conflict.
People in the FreePalestine movement and most of the MSM seem to have zero interest in confronting questions about: Hamas using human shields, torturing hostages, refusing to accept proposed ceasefire agreements, refusing to let civilians use tunnels as shelter/escape, and having every incentive to keep the war going and maximize Palestinian deaths. So they just pretend Hamas has no agency or role in the conflict, whatsoever.
Israel/Biden/(((Zionists!))) vs. Palestinians is an attractive framing that allows for a lot of grandstanding and patting-oneself-on-the-back for one’s moral and progressive purity. Bringing Hamas’ actions and culpability into the discussion, shatters that simplistic narrative and makes things a whole lot more messy.
lowtechcyclist
@Kay:
And I say the sooner the better.
Tenar Arha
@Kay: that just makes me horribly sad for them. Willing to kill their grandchildren for pride. Seriously, my cousin was really early & she’s just graduating high school, but if she’d gotten anything back then, who knows. I had a cold when she came home & I stayed away.
ETA I also think they deserve to be miserable because they’d rather risk others & not just themselves from their pride.
Geo Wilcox
@Nukular Biskits: My grandfather died of tetanus. I would not wish his death on anyone, not even Trump. I get a booster every 10 years without fail.
UncleEbeneezer
@Jackie: If they were civilians, a good question for the media to ask is why Hamas had the hostages in the middle of a bunch of civilians…
Kay
@MomSense:
I opened my mouth to say “what about parents rights?” then thought better of it. I don’t care whether they’re allowed to see their grandchildren or not – they seem both selfish and reckless – maybe they shouldn’t be around very small children. Also? Dumb fight. The parents are going to win that one.
I though it was kind of cool when my daughter told us we had to get boosters. It never would have occurred to me. Progress!
Jackie
@Elizabelle:
From a wheelchair, no less. I don’t recall FDR being called too old or too frail to lead the nation.
zhena gogolia
@UncleEbeneezer: I agree.
Jackie
@Kay: I was asked to get the MMR booster when we learned I was going to be a gramma. It didn’t even occur to me to refuse.
I wonder how many of those bull-headed grandparents are voting for Bobby jr.
Kay
@Tenar Arha:
My own belief is there are two kinds of people in the world – those who think children are property and those who think children are independent beings. They’re angry that they’re not being permitted to exercise a property right they have. They own these people! Why won’t they take orders?
It’s honestly a lot more fun when you believe children are independent entities. They’re odd and kind of interesting. My 4 year old grandaughter is having a dispute with a girl in preschool. They’re probably both strong willed; I know she is. Yesterday she told me the girl told her “you’re not beautiful” which is such a weird insult.
Juju.
@Elizabelle: FDR was actually only 63 when he died. Health care and habits weren’t as good back then, and people didn’t live as long.
lowtechcyclist
@UncleEbeneezer:
And you would be right!
The destructive capabilities of the IDF are orders of magnitude beyond those of Hamas. The IDF is capable of killing not just the >30,000 Gaza Palestinians they’ve already killed, they could wipe out every last man, woman, and child in Gaza, and there’s basically nothing Hamas could do to stop them.
Compare that with the ~1300 persons killed or kidnapped by Hamas on October 7th, which would have been impossible if Bibi hadn’t decided it was more important for the IDF to harass West Bank Palestinians than to guard the Gaza border.
The two main players are the IDF as perpetrator and Palestinian civilians as victims, and in a military operation at this level, Hamas is basically a bystander and/or collateral damage.
Jackie
@UncleEbeneezer: Isn’t that Hamas’ MO? The media brings that up a lot – at least much of the the media I follow.
Melancholy Jaques
@Geo Wilcox:
You’re a much better person than I am.
RaflW
@Chief Oshkosh: I flew a T-34 once! In my teens, my then best friend’s dad had restored one, and took me up stunt flying. I got to do the takeoff (with Dean shadowing the controls from the other seat) and did some of the cross-country cruise to the safe area to do rolls, a couple loops, etc.
Not a high powered aircraft, IIRC we climbed pretty high to get enough speed (and have a safety margin above ground) for the loop. Throwing your head back and looking out the glass canopy at nothing but ground was weird and very cool. Like 40 years later remembering it well cool.
Eyeroller
@Jackie: A huge problem here is that neither side cares about the lives of Palestinian civilians. The IDF for reasons we know about. For Hamas, dead civilians are martyrs to their cause.
TBone
Father-daughter lesson on The Eff Bomb at link. Instructive. When I was a wee tot, our next door neighbors’ youngest son was a lover of punking my little brother and me. He was evil. He taught us this word for the first time we’d ever heard it, and told us it was a great compliment, an expression of happiness and joy. He urged me to shout it. So I stood on our front lawn and YELLED it 😆 repeatedly, at the top of my lungs, until my gramma came running out of the house. In an instant, I knew I’d been punked again. Fuck you, Dave Johnston! 😆🤣
I wish Gramma had explained like this great dad does, but I was too young!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_42tJgX_S48
Geminid
@lowtechcyclist: Hamas and the PIJ have been fighting the IDF in Gaza ever since late November, and they have posted the video to prove it. They’ve also launched hundreds of rockets into southern and central Israel (many of them falling short into Gaza). They are hardly bystanders.
RaflW
@rikyrah: Posted this by Brit Ian Dunt downstairs, but will again, because it’s so worth a Saturday morning smug satisfaction read. The photo illustration is even more hilarious now that I see the PM went and had an ice cream moment in desperation.
Melancholy Jaques
@Eyeroller:
Are there no other actors in the world who might impact the situation? While, as you say, the IDF and Hamas apparently do not care about dead Palestinian people, is there no one else other than the president of the United States who can do anything? No one in Palestine? No one in the region?
smith
@TBone: When my daughter started school, one of the first things she learned was how to spell a Key Word. She of course taught it to her little brother, and for a month or so afterwards we were treated to a 3 year old marching around the house proudly chanting, “F-U-C-K! F-U-C-K!”
Tenar Arha
@Kay:
QFT
Soprano2
@ArchTeryx: Fuck small planes. My sister was killed by mechanical failure – there was a $0.25 screw that sometimes came loose from one of the instruments and caused false readings. The company that owned the plane didn’t notify owners of the plane about this problem, so they didn’t know to check for it. They think that’s what caused the plane to crash. They always say pilot error until they know otherwise. Her boyfriend, who was flying the plane and was also killed, told us that some of these crashes are caused by the plane running out of fuel – the pilot miscalculates how much fuel they need to get to their destination.
Kay
@UncleEbeneezer:
You shouldn’t think Hamas being a terrorist organization justfies indiscriminate killing of civilians, though. It never has. It doesn’t under treaties that both Israel and the United States are parties to and it doesn’t under US law. The Biden Administration – as pro Israel (and in my opinion, somewhat anti Palestinian) as a government can get, doesn’t even argue this is justification – it isn’t a defense to the charge, which is not “criticize how Israel is conducting the war” – the charge is war crimes.
Geminid
@Melancholy Jaques: Egypt, Jordan, the UAE and Saudi Arabia have been working with the U.S. on a plan to settle this war. I think some of its elements can be seen in the draft Secirity Council resolution the U.S. is circulating.
Juju.
@Jackie: I have had the MMR booster four or five times. I’ve lost count. I have actually had measles and mumps but not rubella and when the MMR came out I had to get it for the R. Then my family moved and the new state and schools couldn’t verify my documentation, so I got that again. We moved to another state, and that state would not accept the documentation from the previous state, but I was over 14 and female, so had to have a physician do the booster. Moved to another state and started college and another booster required, then graduate school and more boosters. Then teaching. I don’t remember if I had to do boosters for that or not. I also had tetanus boosters each time as well. Those always hurt. Now I just get the Covid boosters. I was thinking about getting the shingles vaccine because I’m one of those people who have had chicken pox.
RaflW
@TBone: Absolutely hilarious!
I do remember the first time my friend Jeff and I tried out saying the F-word. It was elementary school, maybe 3rd or 4th grade? We were out around the neighborhood and knew it was a bad word.
There was almost a physical joy in saying and even shouting the word to no one on the empty block. We definitely kept a lid on that though.
Not that long after, our family moved to Tulsa, OK (starting 5th grade) and I guess I let an F slip, and I remember my friend saying “You really are from New York City!”
Kay
@smith:
My friend gave my (then) 5 year old (boy) MardisGras beads and he just loved them – I think he loved her, really, so the beads were from his favorite. He wore them to kindergarten for a couple of weeks. I knew he would be made fun of but it was just not something I was willing to make a fuss over. I sort of admired him, marching off in his necklace.
UncleEbeneezer
@lowtechcyclist: Calling Hamas, the people who kidnapped and held these hostages “bystanders” is fucking insane. Do you even hear yourself. FOH
TBone
@smith: I love the very end of the video (like an outtake roll) – almost missed it. Were you able to explain to your little vocalist about using your indoors voice? 😆😍
The discussion of grandparents refusing to protect grandbabies is a huge fuck you
TBone
@Soprano2: 💔😡 I don’t know what else to say today but FUCK
Baud
TBone
@RaflW: 😆😍
Baud
@RaflW:
Balloon Juice try outs.
Kay
@Geminid:
I’ll just again register my objection to the gaslighting by Biden and Co. I know why the Biden Administration are saying Israel has agreed to the deal but, you know, it’s not actually strictly true and I object to the idea of the US public being told something untrue in the service of getting this deal done. That’s bad. That goes no where good.
Frankensteinbeck
@MomSense:
1964. When Reagan said his “I’m from the government and I’m here to help” his audience understood he meant the government was helping black people. Historically, again and again, it’s been the federal government stepping in to stop smaller communities from abusing minorities. That’s why ‘states’ rights’ is a rallying cry. Desegregation was fresh in his audience’s minds and they hated the federal government for it. The feds were starting to look askance at beating gays to death around then, too.
West of the Rockies
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
I smell a morning Travel Post!
TBone
@Kay: I came home from Texas with a huge collection of Mardi Gras beads and tokens. Not from N’awlins, my BF had taken me to the much tamer celebration in Biloxi, so no nudity was necessary to receive beads. But the look on my brother’s face when I was unpacking the car upon my return to PA was priceless! He obviously thought I’d been celebrating in N’awlins!
I hope you got a pic of your little one proudly donning those beads 😍
Geminid
@Kay: The U.S. is telling everyone Israel has aporoved this deal in order to box the Israeli government in. The negotiating team that presented the last Israeli proposal acted under a mandate given by the government and in particular the War Cabinet. The team was not given full powers to conclude the deal though, and it was always going to be up to the political echelon to ratify it, just like in the case of the shorter ceasefire last December. Anyone paying attention to this process would know that.
Frankensteinbeck
@lowtechcyclist:
If the IDF decides to stop fighting and Hamas doesn’t, the war keeps going. Not that this is any excuse for how Israel is conducting their side of the war.
M31
when my kid was 6 we were talking about swear words and we knew she knew some, so we said something like “yeah, some kids like to say the F-word” and she nodded, and then said “there’s the D-word” and we nodded and then she said “and the OTHER D-word” and we nodded but to this day have no idea what it was hahahahahaha
“the OTHER D-word”
TBone
@MomSense: sending gentle wishes and admiration of your quiet gangsta display.
TBone
@M31: so many possibilities!
brendancalling
@Geminid: all of the things that make life nice are going away because of us.
M31
lol just remembered this, only a few years ago was walking in a park and some pre-teens were clearly practicing swears, and (I’m not making this up, really)
“shit”
.
.
“fuck”
.
.
“Donald Trump”
hahaahaha
opiejeanne
@M31: A nasty little boy named Rusty, and I do mean nasty, taught a group of us little girls the S word and the F word in the 3rd grade, and he had the definitions backwards. I’m surprised my mother didn’t die laughing when I talked to her about it. The Mother Phone Tree lit up pretty fast and there was a confrontation between them and Rusty’s mom but none of us ever knew how well that went. Rusty was from a not very nice family, like about half of the kids in that school.
TBone
Today is the anniversary of the publishing of Orwell’s 1984
https://x.com/BBCArchive/status/1799335556909781467
TBone
@M31: 🤣💜😆😍
opiejeanne
@TBone: 75th anniversary?
West of the Rockies
@Kay:
“You’re not beautiful”? Sounds like a mean girl in the making.
Kay
@Geminid:
I know. But to say people should know President Biden isn’t strictly telling the truth when he gives an interview to ABC and says Israel has agreed and Hamas has not and Hamas is “the only thing” standing in the way, is, IMO, ridiculous and an excuse.
Too clever by half. Just tell the truth.
This war just gets worse and worse for the US. I hope we haven’t compromised or thrown overboard every single one of our supposed principles by the time it’s over. It’s not just a disaster for Israel and Israelis and Palestinians, it’s a disaster for the US. This is going no where good.
NotMax
Called the place I’ve been using for decades to place a reorder on cigars and was hit with the news from the person who picked up the phone that they no longer ship to Hawaii. Bummed out big time by that. Frankly, makes no sense as they use USPS.
Anyhoo, spent a good chunk o’ time researching alternative suppliers. Of the first dozen looked into, six don’t carry the brand I favor, the other six when contacted by phone also said they do not or no longer ship to Hawaii.
Lucky number 13 met all my needs (albeit at a slightly higher price per item than my former old faithful) and according to a confirmation e-mail, package is on its way. Paws crossed.
Was a-feared I’d have to conjure up someone on the mainland to have the see-gars shipped to, who would then be tasked with re-shipping them to me (which I’d willingly reimburse them for, of course). Too much to ask of 96-year-old Mom.and I really couldn’t come up withe anyone else not in Hawaii to contact if that push should come to shove.
TBone
This is GREAT 😃
https://digbysblog.net/2024/06/08/the-best-intro-ever/
Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner! Honoring Orwell today.
Jackie
@M31: The other D-word might be “dick?” Or “dickhead?”
TBone
@opiejeanne: I was told there would be no math today. Is that not the case? 🥸
TBone
@Jackie: d-bag was my first guess (feminine “hygiene” product) but there are just so many possibilities I dared not hazard my guess.
Scout211
@MomSense: This thread is long, so I’m not sure if you will get this, but about the recliner for your mom:
I bought this leather power recliner for my husband at Costco.com. Free delivery and setup and free returns if it’s not perfect. My husband loves it. It’s very good quality and super easy to adjust in many different ways.
Ken
@NotMax: One of the bluesky posts I follow was saying unkind things about CNN because of a couple of their recent pieces. The first was on how the ultra-wealthy often load their cars on cargo planes to take them along on trips, and the second on a woman who was buying a hyper-expensive condo in (I think) Dubai. You know, everyday news about everyday people.
Anyway, the point is that you too could be on CNN, if you start flying back to the mainland to pick up boxes of your favorite cigars.
Chacal Charles Calthrop
@Kay: yeah, but then you’d have to get away from a self-absorbed narcissitic view of the world. To a narcissist, no-one else is quite real. Look at Trump: people exist only in relation to what they can do for him, or for what he can do to them. It shows up whenever a narcissist feels entitled to someone else — and everyone feels entitled to their own children and grandchildren.
Geminid
@Kay: From what I know of the deal that’s on the table, it doesn’t throw any of our principles overboard. But Hamas broke the last ceasefire that Qatar brokered, to end the 11-day war in 2021, and it’s right to have them to give an an answer on this proposal first.
I think they will either refuse the deal outright or demand changes that can be worked out in Cairo next week. The deal may not go through, but if it does go through that will be good thing no matter how many process objections you can make.
NotMax
@Ken
For the hoi polloi, Amtrak still running the Autotrain.
;)
M31
@Jackie: lol I was thinking that “dick” was the first D-word, and couldn’t think of another obvious one, what were you thinking? lol
though TBone’s guess of ‘douchebag’ might be it, but seems unlikely for 6-year-olds
Maybe “damn” but I don’t think that’s been a real swear for a long time.
dingus, I don’t think so
Mr. Bemused Senior
@TBone: holy @$!!*#. This really happened?
Jackie
@Scout211: I had a hell of a time finding a powered recliner for my dad. He had shrunk to my height – 5’2” – and only weighed 150 lbs. Most recliners are HUGE. Miraculously I found one the ideal size at goodwill, of all places.
TBone
@M31: dipshit
TBone
@Mr. Bemused Senior: it’s a parody but it’s a real good one.
schrodingers_cat
@UncleEbeneezer:
That’s an accurate description of those on a moral highhorse sealioning every thread into a bad faith conversation about Gaza.
emjayay
@Nukular Biskits:
I dunno. Maybe ask your primary care doctor (who should have addressed this already as a routine thing).
Or get one if you don’t have one.
There are also vaccines for pneumonia and RSV that didn’t exist even a decade ago. All or almost all of them are free with Medicare.
Ken
@TBone: Thanks for the confirmation, though I kind of suspected it was parody about ten words in at “your majesty.”
TBone
@Ken: 🤣
Jackie
@M31: Damn it was a swear word in my house growing up – and still is around the grandkiddos. It’s never been a part of my usual vocabulary – unless I stub a toe or something painfully equivalent lol
smith
@TBone: If we’re talking six year olds, I’d guess “doo-doo.”
TBone
Heads-up
https://crooksandliars.com/2024/06/far-right-militia-recruiting-openly
https://www.mediamatters.org/january-6-insurrection/group-far-right-media-figures-using-social-media-recruit-its-newly-formed
Kay
@Geminid:
But how they’re getting this deal does. Not just “principles” either – laws. It’s still propaganda – whether it’s directed to the Israeli public doesn’t matter at all to the US public, who are also being told this bullshit.
Dorothy A. Winsor
In my son’s nursery school, the kids all swore like sailors. The teachers ignored it on the theory that that would make it go away. Haha. I did admire the juvenile creativity. “Dummy fucker asshole face” was my favorite.
Jackie
@Nukular Biskits: You probably are due for the shingles vaccine(s)
smith
@Jackie: In my family growing up, we weren’t allowed to say “darn” because it was a substitute for “damn.” I was amazed many years later when my mother’s morals loosened enough for her to start using “damn,” when she was in her late 80s.
TBone
@Dorothy A. Winsor: 😆
Nukular Biskits
@emjayay:
And that’s a good point there; i..e, there are now more vaccines (and associated boosters) than there were 4.5 billion years ago when I was a kid.
What’s odd is that my primary care doc has never mentioned anything about boosters, other than getting the shingles vax and, of course, COVID boosters. I did have proctologist ask me about getting hepatitis vaccine several years ago.
Something to ask at next wellness visit.
Jackie
@smith: Same with “dang” lol Plus dang was slang for darn and most slang was taboo 🤷🏼♀️
Trivia Man
“Indiscriminate” is an important qualifier for Palestinian deaths. Bomb on a public market or housing units? Clear war crime to me. Collateral damage while rescuing hostages in a residential neighborhood? Fair game.
Many civilians must know hostage locations and Hamas leadership intel but remain quiet. I cant tell them what to do, only they can judge their risks and abilities. But there shouldn’t be surprise when live ng next to a hostage location becomes dangerous and deadly for bystanders.
TBone
Hey diddle diddle!
A fully grown adult male friend used to shout JACK DIDDLY DING DONG 😆 and because he cussed like a drunken sailor most of the time, it was a sight to behold him reign himself in. I miss him, RIP
NotMax
@smith
“Godfrey Daniel!”
:)
Geminid
@Kay: I don’t think the US public is being misled here, at least not those who care about this ceasefire process and the intended goal enough to inform themselves about them.
J. Arthur Crank
@M31: Perhaps “dildo”?
TBone
@NotMax: 💙
smith
@NotMax: Also H-E-hockey-stick-hockey-stick
Trivia Man
@Jackie: at BYU “fetch” and “flip” and “jeepers” were the mainstays. Even those were TOO MUCH BECAUSE WE KNOW WHAT YOU ARE THINKING OF SAYING fir the hardest core folks.
One night in the dorms i got fed up at the noise (shaving cream ‘fights’ in the hallways and so i opened the door and yelled at the top of my lungs… SHUT THE FUCK UP
dead
silence
then whispers and tiptoes and softly closing doors
My belief is i had the most effective single curse word usage in any university setting since about 1920. It was a nuclear escalation in a land of pacifists (metaphorically speaking)
Trivia Man
@J. Arthur Crank: democrat
TBone
@smith: 💜
I keep hearing Red say “dumbass” 😆
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l7bHHuO4fDY
Elizabelle
@NotMax: I live in Virginia and would be happy to be your cigars middleman, if you ever need.
Jackie
@Trivia Man: Death toll in Gaza up to at least 93 while rescuing hostages.
https://www.politico.eu/article/israel-palestine-hostages-gaza-airstrikes-death/
TBone
@Trivia Man: 😎
I disrupted the neighborhood Rumpers’ fireworks (M-80s) one night by standing in my driveway and letting fly a WTF as loud as their stupid celebration. The neighborhood immediately went dead quiet!
smith
@Trivia Man: I miss the days when “fuck” was the nuclear option, when it was used only rarely to maintain its potency. It was a grand old expletive, and we really have nothing now to replace it. These days it’s so common it’s become a mild intensifier, like “really” or “very,” completely drained of all meaning.
It amuses me when someone acts as if their liberal use of the word makes them some kind of daring rebel, when they actually sound like any 14 year old chosen at random.
NotMax
@Elizabelle
Wow. Thanks. if it should come to it, super pleased by the generous offer.
Kay
@Geminid:
But it’s for general consumption! That’s why Biden said it on a network interview. He knows damn well no one is going to know this backstory. It’s not some mysterious diplomatic process with chess masters – it’s calling Israel’s bluff – people do it all the time in negotiations.
Why keep telling Americans this story? It isn’t true.
TBone
@smith: in my experience as an older female who can appear to be demure when necessary, the shock value is still potent.
JustRuss
Weird fact: My brother owns a kayak business on Orcas Island, they had a group in the area where Anders’ plane went down about 20 minutes before the crash happened.
Mr. Bemused Senior
Bunk and McNulty – F*ck MF scene (The Wire)
smith
@TBone: Context matters, but the word is used so prolifically in popular entertainment and casual conversation, you have to be a particular type in a particular situation for it to have any impact.
smith
@Mr. Bemused Senior: Years ago, I saw a play called “Punk Hamlet,” in which pretty much every line Shakespeare wrote had had at least one “fuck” added in at various places to produce various meanings. It was hilarious.
TBone
Did someone say eff bomb?
As another stupid week draws to a close …(Pride edition 🌈).
https://www.jefftiedrich.com/p/this-week-in-stupid-june-8-edition
Steeplejack
@Elizabelle, @Jackie:
It’s interesting how our concept of “old” has changed as life spans have gotten longer. We accept that F.D.R. was “old,” but he was 50 when he was elected in 1932 and 63 when he died in 1945.
L.B.J., another “old” president, was 55-60 in the White House and died at 64.
eversor
@Eyeroller:
Before dad lost his physical abilities almost completely he owned a single engine prop plane at our place up in NY and liked to just fly over Niagra Falls.
At one point with my uncle something happened and there was a lot of smoke involved from the engine. All was well though dad at one point while drunk admitted to fucking with my uncle as he found the panic rather amusing and decided now was the time to terrorize the shit out of him.
Dad learned how to fly planes when he was illegally an Army Officer training up for Korea. His citizenship hadn’t cleared but as the American’s had rescued him from the camps he was eager to go to war for the Americans. As it was the Army that rescued him he really wanted in the Army and off to war. They figured it all out after was an LT JG. He flunked out of flying a plane as fancy moves got him sick and he liked flying slow and in a straight line. Which, rather fatal in a war. So he became a combat engineer. Mostly blowing shit up but later building hospitals and schools as his degree was in civil engineering.
Later in life he also laughing admitted to setting up whore camps and smuggling alcohol. Also that as the major he worked for was an incapacitated drunk he was the one issuing TS clearances even though he only had an S at the time so they had to retroactively clear him to make it all legal.
Crazy man. I’m miss him already. Also explains why growing up we knew just about every Korean in the immediate area and tree stump removal was conducted with dynamite.
sab
@Nukular Biskits: It ‘s interesting that now they are suggestimg boosters. I asked about that when my granddaughter was born, on my doctor just shrugged about it. Of course, I am old enough that I actually had most of the childhood diseases, not just vaccinations. I still have scars from chicken pox and I dislike orange juice and strawberries because of mumps.
Jackie
@Steeplejack: Ain’t that the truth.
I was pondering along those lines watching the D-Day ceremonies. The “average age” of the veterans attending was 99 – yet not once were they called old. They were called heroes.
raven
@Steeplejack: Fuck LBJ
TBone
Moving to Russia to escape woke may have had unintended consequences. Whocouldanode?
https://www.wonkette.com/p/why-would-canadian-couple-who-dragged
😆
eversor
@smith:
I was in the Navy and fuck is about the third word in any conversation so it lacks any meaning. The fuck was that fucking thing.
Which leads to some truly creative turns of language when you really want to be rude. Such as stating someone is upset this morning because the mushroom shoved up their crap cutter last night was to small. Or, cock smoking ass goblin. To where, if you have never been around the Navy there is a moment of “the fuck did he just say to me”. Vulgarity is turned into art form worthy of Shakespeare.
Steeplejack
@raven:
Yeah, we get it.
West of the Rockies
@Trivia Man:
I hate when Sarah Palin says, “flippin'” in her obnoxious accent.
Geminid
@Kay: This is public diplomacy, and it’s not just Joe Biden doing it. In their capacity as “Mediators,” the US, Egypt and Qatar made a joint statement last week saying that Israel had agreed to these terms and calling on Hamas to accept them. The Foreign Ministers of Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Bahrain and Qatar did the same, and so did the G7 countries.
These statements are not just public relations efforts for American or Israeli public consumption. They’re part of an effort by the U.S., France, the U.K., Germany, Italy, Japan, and four influential Arab countries to end a destructive war by putting maximum pressure on two bitter adversaries.
I give Biden and his team credit for pushing this deal so close to the finish. If they can get it over the finish line, I think people will understand its merits. If they can’t, then it will be time to start the blamecasting..
eversor
@TBone:
The best part of that is he thinks he’s being hated for eating meat. That’s a new one. People like it. It’s good for you.* It’s very popular. People think you are odd if you don’t eat meat.
*Plenty of people eat too much of it but that’s because it’s stupidly cheap and all over the fucking place. I myself will have a burger today. https://bgrtheburgerjoint.com/locations-menus/arlington-va/ if you are in the DC area.
smith
@eversor: Well, I guess the silver lining in the depreciation of “fuck” as an expletive is that it leads to ever more creative uses of language.
raven
@Steeplejack: Every time I see it. . .
West of the Rockies
@eversor:
“Cock smoking ass goblin…” I love it!
I have heard that “greasy shitbird” is a common navy curse.
Dan B
I’ve seen Jones Island from the air on several trips to landscape construction projects in the San Juan Islands. It’s disorienting to read about tragedy in a sublime setting.
Ruckus
@Jackie:
The part of a human that has to work correctly at any age is the brain. Joe’s brain seems to be working just fine. Second in line is the heart.
And that of course leads to the question about a lot of humans whose brain may work for the physical side but really isn’t for the humanity side of living reasonably.
Dan B
I’ve seen Jones Island from the air on flights to landscape construction projects in the San Juan Islands. It’s disorienting to read about tragedy in a sublime location.
Ruckus
@West of the Rockies:
USN insults vary with the year(s) one was in. They do get carried over very often and transferred when a sailor does. I don’t speak the same as when I was in the Navy, because for many it would be several steps over the limit. Also there were many things that one had to be careful to say, because they could be overheard by someone who might think that telling someone higher up the food chain was a good idea. You need to know your audience is always good advice in the military. But yes, a proper swearing vocabulary is an absolute necessity in the Navy, or I’d imagine any of the military branches. I also doubt this has changed in the over half a century since I was serving.
eversor
@West of the Rockies:
It is. You can also mix them up to really get on someone.
“that greasey shitbird is upset because his cock smoking ass goblin didn’t put it up his shit cutter last night”
Also “why you mad? forget to change your gerbil or did someone piss in your cherrios this morning”
Like I said, it’s an art! A good NCO can go on a five min rant with years of insults to the point people start bowling over laughing while the fresh meat is rather shocked at what they are being told.
snoey
@sab: It’s because the diseases are back. Pertussis in particular is close to endemic again and a horrible thing for an infant to have. There was a billboard campaign I saw in Montana ~10 years ago when Idaho first went out of control. Cute baby and “No hugs till you get your shot Grandma”. Now that’s true everywhere. Get a TDAP if you are going to be around infants.
Bupalos
@eversor: You can’t really say anything about “meat” as a class. Practically all beef consumed in the American market is both bad for you and terrible for the environment. It shouldn’t exist, and anything you do to help it exist is not a good thing. Worse than say large commercial bison by a factor of 2 and worse than factory chicken by a factor of 4 or 5. 100% pasture fed beef is not so bad, but that simply isn’t what we’re talking about, it’s practically invisible as a share of this market because it’s at least twice as expensive.
The place you listed there has a bison option, which is nice.
TBone
@eversor: I didn’t even notice that part! The fact that the entirety of their worldview is so narrowly centered around themselves as “independent bootstrap salt of the earth” types, and then moving to a nation that is purportedly communist and then being shocked! (by their own stupidity, the funny part) is what grabs me. It’d be much funnier if their kids could somehow defect.
trollhattan
@TBone:
I’m watching the video and the further I get, the more baffled about this maroon I become.
Research, do you speak it, motherfucker?
p.s. “We are hiring.” Does not detail in what form payment will take. One child per day worked?
TBone
@TBone: they are poster people for this by Asimov:
TBone
@trollhattan: we had the same thought, as evidenced by the Asimov quote I amended!
Ken
Check her blinking in the apology video, to see if it’s Morse code. My guess would be
•–– • ••–• –––
eversor
@Bupalos:
Also has a wagyu option, tuna option, and mushroom option. Though shrooms ain’t meat.
The problem with meat is the same as the problem with almost all food out there. It’s crap quality. And the good stuff costs more. Where I am we have a Mom’s Organic Market. Utterly not affordable for most people but the quality of everything is out of this world. There’s a French store that sells cheese and actual good honey. Though that honey is 20-40 a jar. We’ve got a few real actual butchers. Though the price just for the produce is going to quadroople what say Safeway costs.
So if we are talking about good and bad… veggies should cost 4x what most people pay and so should meat. Neither is possible for most people or would be tolerated. Instant premade food should go away but that’s not going to happen either.
Most people that shit on meat aren’t paying 4x the price for actual quality veggies and fruit and cheese though. If you are, congrats. If you aren’t, shut up about meat.
Also I’m getting wagyu, cause I like truffles, mushrooms, beef, and blue cheese!
TBone
@Ken: I don’t speak it fluently enough, please translate!
Issat a distress signal? I only know SOS
Betty
@MomSense: Similar situation. My husband just returned home after months of rehab for a serious head injury. The only recliners available here (in Dominica) are exactly like you described. I just can’t put that in my home.
Marc
I used to fly gliders in the mountains along the California/Nevada border. About 20 years ago I went to a glider encampment at Tonopah NV (only a few miles north of Area 51). One day the conditions were really strong so I decided I was going try flying a 1000 km triangular course from Tonopah to Wendover UT, then over the “Flying M Ranch” airstrip southeast of Lake Tahoe, down to a mountain peak just north of Death Valley, then back to Tonopah. Sounds crazy (and it was), but on a strong day like that I could spend much of the time flying at 15K to 18K feet (on oxygen) zig-zagging underneath the clouds where the lift was, an average speed of around 100 mph for the entire flight was doable. I was towed aloft by 10am, made it to Wendover just after noon, was intercepted by a couple of F-15s over central Nevada (they flew beside me waving and taking pictures), then things started getting ugly as the afternoon thunderstorm cells had started spreading over much of the sky, cutting off the solar heating I depended on to maintain altitude. Flying M Ranch itself was now underneath a giant cloud, but I still had to fly to that point if I wanted to get a fancy certificate for making the flight. I made it to the ranch (which in a valley surrounded by mountains), but I was down to 10K feet with no obvious way to get out. After fighting to stay up for an hour or so, I finally accepted my fate and landed on the ranch airstrip.
Now, Flying M Ranch was owned by Barron Hilton, and was where he used to go with his friends for fishing, hunting, and recreational flying. So, the airstrip was more of a long paved runway. I landed without difficulty, parked the glider near the hangars, found that I couldn’t reach anyone on the radio so I could get a tow back to Tonopah, and I had no cell phone (and likely no service there). So, I was stuck and the place was deserted. Around sunset the caretaker showed up, he let me use the ranch phone, and I called a bunch of numbers until I could reach someone who could get through to Tonopah to let them know I was OK. But, it was too late to get an air tow back, and it would take 3 or 4 hours for someone to drive my car and trailer there. So, the caretaker let me stay the night if I was willing to help prep for Barron’s arrival in the morning. Next morning, I helped sweep out the hangars, then Barron arrives in a business jet piloted by his son (Barron II, Paris’ brother) and 10 or so of his closest friends. The caretaker explained who I was and how I managed to end up there, Barron smiles, shakes my hand, and invites me to lunch, and offers to have his son tow me out towards Tonopah (with another plane, not the jet).
So, amongst Barron’s friends I was hobnobbing with at lunch were Bill Anders, Chuck Yeager, Paul MacCready (long time glider pilot, designer of the first successful human powered planes). I was too much in awe to say much to any of them. Lunch was great, then I got my tow over the mountains towards Tonopah, and ended up with a long story. I never did manage to make a 1000km flight and gave up flying a few years later.
Ken
@TBone: W E F O — by which I mean, “We found out”.
TBone
@Ken: 😆
TBone
@Marc: ❤️
TBone
Today’s must read re: “moderate” Nazi wing of the evangeluglican party.
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2024/06/04/moderate-nazis-and-felonious-financial-accountability/
JFC
Ohio Mom
@Nukular Biskits: They might have changed the tetanus vaccine formula in the mean time , and whatever you reacted to (assuming your memory is accurate) may have been replaced.
I will join the chorus, please get up-to-date on all your shots! We want you healthy!
lowtechcyclist
@Geminid:
I’m sure they’ve posted video. And I’m sure they’ve fired rockets. But it’s a matter of SCALE. Have they rendered southern Israel uninhabitable? Have they killed hundreds of IDF? Or are they the equivalent of having brought a BB gun to a gang war? I just see no indication that they’ve made a noticeable difference in what’s transpired in the past six months.
Ohio Mom
@MomSense: Maybe this will help narrow your search (it’s from decorating sight I used to follow but got bored of): https://laurelberninteriors.com/help-for-a-recliner-chair-nightmare-20-gorgeous-chairs/
Dan B
@NotMax: On my way between the post office at the Seattle Design Center and the little Japanese grocery (for Sushi, Egg Foo Yung, and Kewpi Mayo) I passed by the smoking tent for Rain City Cigars. The pricey smoke clouds were wafting over the intersection of two of the busiest arterials in the city. Artery clogging?!?
It’s in the strip mall for feeding the workers in the industrial area along the Duwamish (River of many colors – now with several superfund sites!)
Dan B
@schrodingers_cat: Thank you! I feel that pie may be in the near future of an all too repetitious sea lion. All I’m getting is: You’re wrong. I’m right! Shut up and listen.
It’s counterproductive and demeaning.
Thanks again!
wjca
Worse, he’s as old or older than most of them. And they are well aware that they couldn’t the workload.
Chris T.
@Halteclere:
Yeah, he went out doing what he loved. Local TV news (Seattle station, not precisely local to the San Juan Islands but as close as we get) had a clip of him saying that as long as they could pour him into an airplane he’d keep flying.
As ways to go go, that was a pretty good one.
Geminid
@lowtechcyclist: Hamas made the biggest difference on October 7, when they launched a savage attack with the intention of provoking a savage response. They’re the ones who chose to start a war with a better armed enemy, hoping the civilian casualties they knew the IDF would inflict would turn world opinion against Israel.
Hamas’s entire strategy depends on sacrificing the people they should protect, in order to maintain their organization’s control the Gaza Strip. That’s why they resist this ceasefire agreement: it does not guarantee their long term control.
So no, Hamas is not a bystander, and they are still a capable fighting force armed on a par with the North Vietnamese Army we fought in Vietnam and the IRA the British fought in Northern Ireland; also, the insurgents we fought in Iraq and the PKK Turkiye has been fighting for 40 years. They chose to fight an assymetrical war, and they can choose to end it anytime. If Hamas cared about the people in Gaza like you do, they could end this war at any time. But they don’t, so they won’t.
wjca
@Jackie: Damn it was a swear word in my house growing up
My Mom loved to tell the story of my little brother, age maybe 3 at most, having something go wrong and saying “Damnit!”. Whereupon I, from my lofty two years older, corrected him: “No, David, it’s ‘God damnit'”. She said she knew how much children pick up of the language of their parents. But hadn’t realized how much she said that.
eversor
@TBone:
Everyone is dependent on someone else. Here in VA we have actual family owned small scale farms if you go a bit outside DC. It’s a gorgeous area. The farmers also tend to be ultra liberal quasi socialist hippies. The food costs $$$$$$$$$$$$ but it’s well worth it. But none of them are high on their own supply that they pull this off alone.
This also lead to Sarah Sanders getting ejected from a rural restaurant for being a Trumper. No lady. If you want to find where conservatism is tolerated or Christianity you need to find the dirt poor people you don’t want to hang around with.
TBone
@eversor: I have a leftie friend in VA who lives at the base of a mountain. She went so far left she reached around 😆 She’s from my hometown in PA. I now live among rethugs in a rethug majority PA county and relocated here from a PA county that went Dem majority for the first time since the Civil War in 2018 after I left. I was not well off financially until fairly recently. I grew up among these people and I’m still living among them. Rural poverty and urban poverty are not strangers.
Still, I haven’t met any people stupid enough to move to Russia expecting to buy a farm and live like capitalists.
And I’ve been to Evangelical churches more than once.
Scuffletuffle
@NotMax: I would be honored to be your intermediary in future, should you require it.
lowtechcyclist
@UncleEbeneezer:
I hear myself just fine, and apparently I hear you better than you hear yourself. What did you say? Oh yeah:
Not ‘were’ or ‘have been,’ but ‘are.’ Present tense. Now. And for several months now, really.
They are virtually bystanders in the war as it is being fought by IDF now. There’s hardly a thing they can do to have much effect on the IDF’s slaughter of tens of thousands of Palestinians in Gaza. Maybe they’d playing a larger role if Israel was fighting a very different sort of war, one where freeing hostages was what the IDF’s presence was about, but that hasn’t been the sort of war Israel seems to have been fighting, does it? If Israel fights as if the hostages are a side issue, then away goes any ability of Hamas to affect the course of the war other than by sheer force, of which they have orders of magnitude less than Israel does.
If that assessment bothers you, tell me what I’m wrong about.
NotMax
@Scuffletuffle
Danke schoen for offering. We shall see what develops.
lowtechcyclist
@Frankensteinbeck:
The war would keep going as it was prior to October 7. Israel regarded that as such a threat that it let funky festivals happen down near the Gaza border.
Besides, AFAIAC, by having revenged every October 7 death dozens of times over, Israel has given up any further moral right to continue this war. If that isn’t enough revenge for Israel, then tough luck.
lowtechcyclist
@Geminid:
Again, ‘are.’ I’m talking about what’s going on now. Or even in the past six months.
Well, that spells out how obvious Israel’s evil is that even Hamas could see that Israel had become every bit as evil as Hamas.
The only difference being their comparative abilities to inflict harm.
Hamas’s entire strategy depends on sacrificing the people they should protect, in order to maintain their organization’s control the Gaza Strip. That’s why they resist this ceasefire agreement: it does not guarantee their long term control.
Yes, they’re evil too.
So no, Hamas is not a bystander, and they are still a capable fighting force armed on a par with the North Vietnamese Army we fought in Vietnam
Pull the other one, it’s got bells on.
The North Vietnamese Army was a bona fide army, capable of taking and holding territory. It took them about a week and a half in 1975 to defeat the South Vietnamese army that we spent two decades training.
Can Hamas invade Israel and hold territory against Israel’s will? Yeah, right.
Steeplejack
@Marc:
Cool story!
Geminid
@lowtechcyclist: I wasn’t talking about the North Vietnamese army that rolled over the South Vietnam army in 1975. They had tanks and artillery besides battle-hardened and motivated soldiers. I was talking about the North Vietnamese army that the U.S. fought from 1966 to 1973. They basically fought with AK-47s, mortars, short range rockets and booby traps- stuff that could be hauled down the Ho Chi Minh trail while under air interdiction.
That’s what Hamas has been fighting the IDF with, except they started out with some modern guided anti-tank missiles and a whole lot of RPGs, and they have bigger rockets. Back before this war, when Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad were trying to project a powerful, intimidating image, they would pose with their rockets including the Badr-3 with a 500 lb. warhead. That’s way bigger than anything the NVA ever threw at U.S. troops and bases, and early in the war they were fired in salvos at Israeli cities..
eversor
@TBone:
Yeah that area is really odd. The lefties and the righties aren’t that different. They are mostly anarchists at core but with social values all over the map. They’re harmless and they don’t vote.
However… if you want some free range eggs, buttermilk, pasture raised grass beef or acorn fed pork they have it.
2liberal
@PaulWartenberg:
https://noticeatrend.blogspot.com/2023/12/wait-now-im-finding-out-my-parents-knew.html
2liberal
My Dad had shingles and lost an eye. Get the shingles vaccine! It’s a nasty illness and very painful