Breaking from WaPo:
Israeli opposition leader Benny Gantz announced on Sunday his resignation from the government — a move that could destabilize Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s hold on the coalition that leads it.
Gantz, of the National Unity party, said last month that he would leave if Netanyahu did not come forward with a postwar plan by Saturday. None materialized, but on Saturday, Israeli forces carried out a bloody raid on a central Gaza refugee camp to rescue four hostages. Gantz delayed his scheduled news conference until Sunday.
Netanyahu was already struggling to keep his coalition together.
Gantz was one of the three voting members of the war cabinet, along with Netanyahu and Defense Minister Yoav Gallant, who are both Likud party members.
“The snowball has started to roll,” Gayil Talshir, a political scientist at Hebrew University, told The Washington Post before the announcement. “Gantz’s move is not going to directly put an end to this coalition, but the coalition is beginning to collapse in on itself.”
I’ll believe Netanyahu is toast when he’s served up with a schmear. But if this departure changes the hideous status quo, maybe something better can emerge? We’ll see.
Open thread.
Republican Supreme Court Justices View Themselves as Above the Law
brantl
Can’t wait for these SOBs to start snapping at each others’ heels.
Baud
🤞
bjacques
Gantz is nobody’s sweetheart, but he was the acceptable face of the Israeli government. Now it’s Bibi and his fellow thieves, thugs, fixers, and plug-uglies. There’s nobody left that any apologists can point to as restraining the government’s worst impulses. 4 hostages rescued at a cost of 200 Palestinians dead. At this rate, they’ll have wiped Hamas many times over, assuming of course all the dead were Hamas, and not just random families ordered to keep an eye on their respective hostages, or else.
MazeDancer
Read somewhere that Gantz was calling for a new election in the fall. Likely, aspirational.
Baud
@MazeDancer:
When does the expanded draft happen? That might speed up the election.
Ruckus
People normally stick with leaders till they see first hand how bad they are. Many of us saw that in SFB, many long before he was elected the first time. What we have to hope is that many more now see that he has gone full on to a level of never vote for this crap in a million years.
Netanyahu really is no better than djt. That leaves 2 countries with a choice.
1. Rabid stupidity, racism, genderism, war, greed, general destruction…
OR
2. Rational leadership, enlightenment, a future for all citizens…
It seems pretty clear to me, but then that’s just one vote.
So…
Work towards better. Far Better. Look closely at what is required of a leader – knowledge, experience, a recognition of inclusion of all, regardless of race, sex, age, in not only all of us but especially in our leaders.
Geminid
Gantz brought his 12 Knesset members into an emergency government formed October 12. Gideon Saar led 3 other MKs National MKs into opposition a few weeks ago, and now Gantz is subtracting 8 more.
That leaves “Bibi” with a 64-56 Knesset majority, distributed (I think) among his Likud Party (32), Shas (11), United Torah (7) and the the toxic Smotrich, Ben-Gvir and their followers (14).
Frankensteinbeck
As I said in the last thread, Netenyahu is as popular as syphilis, even in his own party. The Israeli electorate takes national security very seriously, and everyone knows Netenyahu ignored the threat and let October 7th happen. He’s been avoiding an election by dragging out the war, because nobody really wanted to change governments in the middle. Sounds like that excuse is wearing thin.
MazeDancer
Ali Velshi tweeted:
cain
I never understand these far right people – these ultra-orthodox Jews are out there putting their nose into the Torah every day, mumbling to themselves. It’s like they read it and compartmentalize the entire thing – it’s not applicable to their daily lives or how they treat each other and other people. They read it, but they don’t live it.
Then again, every time I take a dive into Christian/Muslim/Judaism and run across the old testament/commandments – I just get more perplexed by the actions of Jehovah. I think we have a much more nuanced version of moralism in the modern day and the contradictions tend to really stand out for me. It’s why we have new translations of the texts.
Ignoring the fact that they shoved themselves into the land where all religions lived in relative harmony till western powers carved out a space. I mean, one could argue it is the Europeans that are the enemy – 8 million Jews killed.
Geminid
@MazeDancer: Gantz was calling for an election by the fall, but that was some weeks ago. Last week his party filed a motion calling for an election now.
Opposition party leaders Lapid, Lieberman and Saar are coordinating strategy and tactics to collapse this government, and Gantz will join in.
Netanyahu hopes to hold on until July 28. That’s when this Knesset session is set to adjourn. But the weight of public opinion is now substantially on the side of immediate elections and he and/or his partners might not withstand it. This rotten government was unpopular before last October 7, and now most Israelis are extremely fed up with it.
Frank Wilhoit
If Netanyahu loses a confidence vote, then it will play out just as it did the last time: Netanyahu and his appointees stay on as a caretaker Government through multiple rounds of elections, after each of which no one can get 61, so after several months, the process repeats. Last time, it took (if memory serves) four elections spread over two years. This time, given the stakes, it could go on literally forever. This is the downfall of scrutin de liste when the threshold for Party representation is too low.
cain
@Geminid:
As they should be – rank incompetence, loss of prestige in the world, and divisive internal politics. Never mind, how they’ve handled Palestinians.
There needs to be a fresh way and perhaps find a way to make inroads directly with the Palestinian people although I don’t know how that will be given the ratio of death.
Baud
@cain:
The hallmarks of right wing governments around the world.
Geminid
@Frank Wilhoit: I think that if and when there is an election, Gantz will form a new government without a problem. It will likely be along the lines of the Lapid/Bennett government that lasted from June 2021 through 2022, but with a more substantial majority
Ed. The opposition has got to find a way (or ways) to force an election though.
Another Scott
@Geminid: Bibi was invited to address a joint session of Congress on July 24. It would be great if he were gone before then, but we can’t count on that…
Cheers,
Scott.
suzanne
I hope to see the back of Netanyahu, like, twenty minutes ago. I was happy to see four of the hostages be freed yesterday. Tempered by the knowledge that many likely innocent Palestinians died in the service of that goal.
But I will just have to take what I can get, and if this helps bring down Netanyahu, that’s good news.
Both Palestinians and Israelis deserve better leadership and representation than they have.
Baud
@suzanne:
QFT
Geminid
@Another Scott: As I’ve joked, someone ought to print up some T-shirts for the event with “Benjamin Netanyahu Farewell Tour.”
He’ll likely still be Prime Minister on July 24, but very possibly in a caretaker roll with elections pending.
Cacti
Gantz openly opposes Palestinian statehood and supports ongoing illegal settlement of the West Bank.
I’m not seeing the big improvement if he’s the new face of the Zionist project.
But when he follows the same policies of Netanyahu, I do see the western press saying “look how unreasonable the Palestinians are for not kissing the boot of the very moderate Benny Gantz.”
Another Scott
@Cacti: AFAIK, Gantz didn’t spend part of his childhood growing up in the Philly suburbs. Maybe that’s a plus?? 🤪
Bibi has been a disaster for US interests in the region, and for Israel’s future. Maybe Gaetz will be as well, but Bibi needs to go.
Here’s hoping that voters there make decent choices.
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
cain
@Cacti:
I don’t know who the Israeli folks are going to elect – but they’ve been consistently voting people who are having this platform.
cain
@Another Scott:
I believe that was Bibi.
Omnes Omnibus
Macron just dissolved the French parliament and called a snap election.
Quiet Sunday.
Baud
@Omnes Omnibus:
High off DDay ceremonies?
Villago Delenda Est
Speed the day!
Another Scott
@cain: 💯
Cheers,
Scott.
Villago Delenda Est
Shades of Mein Kampf
Chris
@Omnes Omnibus:
Holy WTF.
Yeah, I saw the FN was the winner of the European elections (I voted for Glucksmann, for all the good it did me). I have no idea how this is supposed to help, though. Hope he knows what he’s doing.
NobodySpecial
Gantz is a cipher. He runs nothing, he leads nothing, nothing he does has effect. he’s a helium balloon floating in the corner of the room at the party. Why anyone thinks what he does means anything is baffling, considering he can’t beat Bibi in an election and he’s spent half his public service being joined at the hip to him.
suzanne
@Villago Delenda Est: It’s outright admission of genocide, as far as I am concerned. They are straight-up saying that they want to kill enough Palestinians to destroy their national character and identity.
Geminid
@cain: Gantz grew up on an agricultural cooperative in south-central Israel. His parents were born in Hungary but survived the death camps and met each other in Israel.
Gantz joined the IDF in 1977 and served as IDF Chief of Staff from 2011 to 2015. He entered politics in 2018, leading the newly-formed National Resilience Party. Gantz served as Defence Minister in the two governments preceding this one.
VFX Lurker
This, times 100.
Bex
@Omnes Omnibus: And a Ukrainian drone operator planted a Ukrainian flag on a communications tower in Belgorod, Russia.
Geminid
@NobodySpecial: One of the reasons people think Gantz means something is that polls consistently show his party winning the most Knesset members if an election were to be held. That’s been the case in every poll taken since last October.
Baud
@Chris:
Was it low turnout?
NutmegAgain
Since it’s an open thread, I’ll just share that the nazi party, aka AfD, came in second in the elections in Germany. Sucks!! Here’s an article from the news outlet that is pretty much like NPR, only German.
Villago Delenda Est
@Geminid: The thing is, give the utter wackiness of Israel’s version of the Westminster system, tiny religious parties often are kingmakers, and the price is to impose their bronze age bullshit on everyone.
Villago Delenda Est
@NutmegAgain: The CDU/CSU Is Germany’s only hope now that the SPD has been kicked to the curb.
Baud
@NutmegAgain:
Europe is going right because of immigration.
Chris
@Baud:
Well, the French embassy in Washington DC isn’t exactly representative of most polling places, but at least there, no, there were quite a few people. I was actually surprised to see that many for a non-presidential election: I’ve seen it much worse.
Another Scott
@NutmegAgain:
Here’s a take from Tendar (a German who does lots of news aggregation about the Ukraine situation):
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
Jeffro
just rooting for the snowball here, so to speak…keep onnnn rolling!
Layer8Problem
@NobodySpecial: Wow, nothing to see here, huh? Thanks for the insight.
trollhattan
@Jeffro: I’m pondering the metaphor as applied to summertime Palestine but yeah, roll on Likud snowball, roll on.
Baud
@Another Scott:
Thanks.
Really want to know what’s going on with the left around the world. So few places they are power players. They control nothing in the US, unless you consider California and Massachusetts left, and I don’t think even the left does.
Villago Delenda Est
@Jeffro: Musical endorsements from the Doobie Brothers and Paul Simon.
Villago Delenda Est
@Baud: The “left” that the MAGAts bitch about are “center-right” in Europe.
trollhattan
@Another Scott: Man, do I miss Merkel. Scholz is way too timid WRT Russia and Ukraine.
But, framed that way the election seems not so bad for Deutschland, going forward. Bannon probably haz a sad.
Jeffro
Yup. And immigration/border issues are only going get more intense over the next
2030who knows how many years with climate refugees.NutmegAgain
@Another Scott: The EU vote may be OK, and that’s important. But AfD are projected to come in second. Which is horrifying.
Baud
@Villago Delenda Est:
Sure, it varies. But on a country by country basis, whatever passes for the left seems to be flailing.
We have a two party system for better or worse, so I don’t expect the American left to be the largest players nationally, but they’re not competitive anywhere. It didn’t used to be like that.
The Pale Scot
Oh Betty, ur really a Cracker? ‘Cause SNAP girlfriend, I think yous from NYC
cain
@Baud: and Russian troll farms.
Another Scott
@Baud: My nickel picture is that the Right had the opportunity of a lifetime in the bursting of the housing bubble / Great Recession / etc., and they ran with it. The same way they did during/after the Great Depression. They saw their chance, grabbed it with a death grip, and it’s very hard to break them loose when they have enough of the levers of power.
We were, and are, amazingly lucky to have Biden and sensible Democrats in power after TCFFG.
Moving back left (or even back toward the center) is a struggle after the RWNJs have power and history tells us that it always will be. We have to fight for every gettable vote and make sure people know the stakes. Because the monsters are always out there…
Cheers,
Scott.
Baud
@cain:
Yes. But the trolls are pushing immigration mostly, I think.
Jeffro
@Villago Delenda Est: ha!
The Doobies have been a recent go-to here on work-from-home days. Good stuff.
jimmiraybob
@Villago Delenda Est: “The “left” that the MAGAts bitch about are “center-right” in Europe.”
The “left” that the MAGAts bitch about include conscientious former conservative Republicans in America.
Melancholy Jaques
@Baud:
I think it’s because whatever passes for the left is a group of varying clusters that are not really coherent. On economic policy they range from people who support modest government policies to ameliorate the harsher features of a market system to those who still dream of a socialist paradise. On foreign/military policy there are those who believe fighting fascism everywhere is necessary and those who do not support any military actions at all.
Among the many things I’d like to see die, the right-left continuum is high on the list.
Geminid
@Villago Delenda Est: At 18 total out of 120 Knesset members, the Ultra-Orthodox parties are not exactly tiny. With 11, Shas is the 3rd largest party after Likud (32) and Yesh Atid (24?).
The Ultra-Orthodox parties swing a lot of weight in this government. They can be a pain in the ass for a coalition leader, though. A few years ago, Netanyahu’s new Transportation minister decreed that transit system maintenance would no longer be done on the Sabbath. But the trains and buses are in constant use the six other days and Saturday’s the only day crews can work on them, so Netanyahu switched the minister out for one less scrupulous.
Baud
@Melancholy Jaques:
That might the rght answer. It rings true to me anyway.
TBone
Open thread roundup of reaching out to the youngs advertising campaign and new PAC (videos at link)
This one is funny
https://digbysblog.net/2024/06/09/the-ad-game/
Baud
@Baud:
I just remembered the left seems to be doing well in Mexico. At least the news calls them left. That’s something I guess.
tam1MI
In other depressing news, the assholes of Judicial Watch are trying the “use laws passed to help Black people to attack Black people” strategy again:
Elizabelle
Do you think the coalition might be splintering over negotiating the cease-fire?
I know so little about the situation on the ground in Israel. Thanks to you all for the explanations.
Another Scott
@Baud:
Meanwhile, …
A reply cautions that counting is still going on, but still, seems to be good news.
[ society.oftrolls.com – [ chef’s kiss ] ]
Cheers,
Scott.
Baud
@Another Scott:
Thanks! Possibly good news. iIRC, Finland went kind of right in the last election.
Elizabelle
@Baud: Mexico‘s new president, Claudia Sheinbaum, sounds awesome.
We kind of did elect a woman president. In 2016. But the slaveholders’ electoral college thwarted the will of the majority of voters.
MomSense
@VFX Lurker:
Exactly. I’ve been depressed about this since Rabin’s assassination.
Jay C
@suzanne:
And what a lot of (too many) outside commentators fail to see is that this attitude is vastly more prevalent with the Israeli public (or at least those motivated to vote their convictions), than might be imagined from the “conventional” media coverage of the issue.
Baud
@Elizabelle:
Yeah, but I’m really talking about the farther left faction here. I wouldn’t put Hillary in that category.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: A lot of BJP windbags were shown the door in the election. They have lost big in the 2 biggest states UP and Maharashtra were they won big in 2019.
There is still long ways to go but the spell of BJP’s invincibility is broken. This election was Modi’s Stalingrad.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
Congress won the second most seats, right? Are they considered more center or more left?
Elizabelle
@Baud: True. I am excited to see such a well prepared woman win the presidency in Mexico. And I’m tired of some of the reporting and punditry that slams us for being so far behind, because, except for the electoral college, we would have been spared Trump.
Baud
@Elizabelle:
Reporting and punditry is a large reason Hillary didn’t win the EC.
RSA
@NutmegAgain: Ach du lieber Scheiße, as my German friends would say.
Naive me, I’m surprised and sad.
Elizabelle
@Baud: Alas.
Baud
@Elizabelle:
The key is that she wasn’t over prepared.
Princess
@Omnes Omnibus: bad news coming out about the EU elections. Far right doing well everywhere.
ETA: okay I guess not in Finland
TBone
Rooty Tooty trying so hard to be relevant that he called Fani Willis a ho. Video
https://x.com/DavidCornDC/status/1799596954823045268
We ride at dawn.
lowtechcyclist
@TBone:
Had to click through to find out who Rooty Tooty was.
(Rudy Giuliani, to save others the trouble)
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Center left, like the Ds. India has many flavors of socialists and communists as well
jayne
@jimmiraybob
If the Ghost of Richard Nixon was running on his original platform, the MAGAts would call him “woke.”
Frankensteinbeck
@Princess:
From the sounds of @Another Scott: it sounds like this is two thirds media spin.
CaseyL
@Another Scott:
I’m seeing commentary that despite the Rightist surge in the EU, they didn’t win as many seats as they hoped, and the centrist coalitions are holding. Fingers crossed.
Also, Orban’s government isn’t doing very well in Hungary, though I’m not at all informed on what the insurgency against him consists of. Its leader is a former Orbanite.
Meanwhile, the UK looks ready to kick the Tory Right to the curb pretty decisively.
So far the 2024 elections globally are a mixed bag. Hope here, less hope there. The fascist “wave” so far doesn’t seem to be much of a one, but a fascist victory in the US will be, shall we say, extremely destabilizing globally.
Baud
Via Reddit
Baud
@CaseyL:
Yep. We’re the big kahuna.
Frankensteinbeck
@CaseyL:
If the media can’t find some numbers they can represent as an international Far Right surge, they can’t ask whether this means Biden will lose. MSNBC was pushing just that when I walked past the living room.
CaseyL
@Baud:
WTAF?
zhena gogolia
Can someone tell me what anyone sees in Glen Powell? He’s all over every magazine and I just don’t see it.
Baud
@Frankensteinbeck:
There does seem to be a bit of a surge. Just not crossing the Rubicon quite yet.
cain
@Frankensteinbeck:
They can always cover France. There is your surge right there.
cain
@TBone:
https://www.reddit.com/r/WhitePeopleTwitter/comments/1dc36se/in_110_degree_weather_trump_tells_his_supporters/#lightbox
TCFG has decided that he doesnt care about them that he only wants their votes. This guy, he breaks every rule of what a politician can and cannot say and his cult will continue to go down the hole with him. SMH
Citizen Alan
@Baud: So, a self-loathing gay man who doesn’t want to pay taxes and is smart enough to lie about his views on abortion in a blue state.
Ken
Wouldn’t this be more appropriate for the “Leopards Eating People’s Faces” post below?
Another Scott
@cain:
France24.com:
The 2nd round has saved France in the past, we’ll see this time.
I’m reminded of Join, or Die.
The Greens lost pretty big in Germany, according to Tendar.
Yeah, intellectually it’s appealing to have a variety of political parties where one can look at slight differences in views and policies and choose. But, ultimately, government is about having a majority. And a bunch of tiny parties that are tuned to the tails of the gaussian distribution make building a working majority that can actually get things done that need to be done difficult, or impossible. [ Insert related comments about Israel here. ]
Macron not fighting with giant Yellow Vests protests now is probably good for him. But voters will have to decide…
To be clear – I’m not a huge Macron fan, and I think he needs to work on improving his relationship with labor (to the extent that that’s possible). But France swinging hard to the Right is not a good thing.
Fingers crossed.
Cheers,
Scott.
Soprano2
@Baud: Never underestimate how crazy the fear of brown-skinned people can make some white-skinned people. Look how the election of Obama made so many Americans lose their minds.
The Lodger
@Villago Delenda Est: That would definitely be a challah day.
trollhattan
The common clay wish to warn you about witchcraft and cetera. Mind those school board elections, folks.
I’m unable to comment on any time-traveling used to deliver this story, given it’s midday Tuesday. However, there is certainly idolatry in this metroplex believe you me.