Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

America is going up in flames. The NYTimes fawns over MAGA celebrities. No longer a real newspaper.

Human rights are not a matter of opinion!

Boeing: repeatedly making the case for high speed rail.

They fucked up the fucking up of the fuckup!

White supremacy is terrorism.

75% of people clapping liked the show!

Trump’s cabinet: like a magic 8 ball that only gives wrong answers.

There are times when telling just part of the truth is effectively a lie.

Never give a known liar the benefit of the doubt.

We know you aren’t a Democrat but since you seem confused let me help you.

Not loving this new fraud based economy.

The arc of history bends toward the same old fuckery.

And now I have baud making fun of me. this day can’t get worse.

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

Donald Trump found guilty as fuck – May 30, 2024!

No Kings: Americans standing in the way of bad history saying “Oh, Fuck No!”

You can’t attract Republican voters. You can only out organize them.

American history and black history cannot be separated.

I might just take the rest of the day off and do even more nothing than usual.

Hey Washington Post, “Democracy Dies in Darkness” was supposed to be a warning, not a mission statement.

They spent the last eight months firing professionals and replacing them with ideologues.

Within six months Twitter will be fully self-driving.

The republican caucus is covering themselves with something, and it is not glory.

Fundamental belief of white supremacy: white people are presumed innocent, minorities are presumed guilty.

You are here: Home / Politics / Biden Administration in Action / Thursday Morning Open Thread: Remember, Sharing Is Caring, Folx!

Thursday Morning Open Thread: Remember, Sharing Is Caring, Folx!

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Putting the ‘mean’ in Meanwhile…

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  3. 3.

    Chief Oshkosh

    I remember very well when Reagan first floated supply-side malarky. It was a watershed moment for me as it clarified that Republicans didn’t actually believe in ANY of the economic arguments they’d made over nearly the entirety of the existence of that party.

  4. 4.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Love that first video clip.

    ETA: I love that Joe always seems so tickled when people give him stuff like T-shirts and sunglasses.

  5. 5.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @Baud: Yeah, but that’s only because you’d have been able to get Cole on it with his amphibious zero-turn combo mower/salvage scow.

  7. 7.

    Ken

    It is absolutely not a coincidence that fascism re-emerged globally just as the last Nazi fighters, Holocaust survivors and Holocaust educators were dying off

    It’s been similarly noted that anti-vax has taken off as the generations that grew up with polio and measles epidemics are dying off.

  10. 10.

    Another Scott

    Competence matters a lot.

    In my skimming of various sites (too many links), I see that MDOT wants the new bridge working by October 2028. Apparently they think it will cost about $1.7B. They’re emphasizing speed and experience in picking a contractor. They apparently want to keep the bridge 2 lanes each way.

    An Italian proposal is for a larger cable-stay bridge that makes a lot of sense. I assume other contractors are proposing something similar, but maybe keeping it 2 lanes each way.

    The original bridge was built the way it was because it was cheap and fast. I hope that they don’t skimp on the design and capacity again…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  12. 12.

    Jeffro

    Jackals, I did something either very foolish or very brave: I read Ross Douthat(!) “interviewing” J.D. Vance(!!)

    gift link

    Ol’ Ross actually comes across as a much better person than I would have thought, but really, sticking up for the idea that the January 6th insurrection was fundamentally wrong and inexcusable should just be every American’s default mode.

    Some excerpts:

    Vance: “…the more complete truth is that the country never really litigated the mistakes of the bipartisan consensus until Donald Trump came along, and on the right, nobody had litigated the failures of George W. Bush until Donald Trump came along.

    (I guess the entire Democratic Party’s “W sucks!” argument doesn’t count?  Obama’s two big election wins?)

    Vance: “Like a lot of other elite conservatives and elite liberals, I allowed myself to focus so much on the stylistic element of Trump that I completely ignored the way in which he substantively was offering something very different on foreign policy, on trade, on immigration.”

    “the stylistic element” – hoo boy

    Vance, explaining how he kept shifting right: “My wife worked for Kavanaugh, loved the guy — kind of a dork. Never believed these stories. You start looking around and say, “If they can do this to him, can they just do this to any of us?” An incredible campaign of character assassination.
    The thing that I kept thinking about liberalism in 2019 and 2020 is that these guys have all read Carl Schmitt — there’s no law, there’s just power. And the goal here is to get back in power. Seemed true in the Kavanaugh thing, seemed true in the Black Lives Matter moment, where. … I’m thinking about how to put this.

    “There’s just power” – they excuse every horrible thing they think, every bad motive that they have, by thinking, “well, the libs are thinking and doing this TOO”

    Vance: “I think most of us who are generally socially aware have a voice in our head that says: “You shouldn’t say this; you should try to say that. Maybe you believe this, but you should try to put it a little bit more diplomatically.” And in 2020 that voice had become absolutely tyrannical. There was nothing you were allowed to say. Offending someone was an act of violence. I think a lot of us just said: “We’re done with this. We’re not playing this game, and we refuse to be policed in what we think and what we say.”
    Then you recognized that a lot of the pushback to Trump was that kind of social pressure. “You like Donald Trump? But he said these things, and he said that thing.” I saw this in my book tour in 2016. If you even acknowledged that there were reasonable things that Donald Trump was saying, there was this complete overreaction.

    Always, always with the white male grievance.

    And more excusing trump’s behavior – and why?  Because J.D. likes him.  (It reminded me of what Adam Kinzinger said when speaking here in Cville last year: “trump’s a very funny guy and he’s very good at seeing you.  You feel seen in his presence.  But…that doesn’t excuse the corruption.”

    Douthat and Vance close the discussion with Douthat’s repeated attempts to get Vance to realize J6 was a horror and a stain on the GOP; Vance, of course, turns that on its head.

    Douthat: Why can’t it be both? Why can’t you say, “It was wrong the way the military and the administrative state behaved under Trump, and it also would’ve been a really, really bad idea for Mike Pence to intervene on Jan. 6”?

    Vance: If the conservative response to this is to say “both sides are bad,” and the liberal response to this is to say “it’s fine when my side does it, and it’s bad when the other side does it,” the liberals will always win the argument in this country. I really don’t believe this is about some deep principle; this is about power.

    I think people really, really underrate the sense to which there is palpable and actionable frustration, and I’m always surprised that their assumption appears to be that Trump is the worst, rather than the best, expression of that frustration. Or at least, one of the better in the whole host of possibilities.

    Talk about the banality of evil.  I thought Vance was bad; frankly, he’s horrifying.

    Anyway, I could keep putting excerpts up but I’d really rather encourage folks to use the gift link and read the whole thing when you have a chance.

    trump will be gone soon; trumpism (i.e., outright and constant lying in the service of white supremacy and oligarchy) will clearly remain a problem for some time to come.

  19. 19.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @satby: [Raises hand.] Still here.

    That said, folks younger than Boomers, g-d bless’em, don’t remember the days when children could become disabled or even killed by childhood illnesses like whooping cough, polio, and measles. Ironically, the effectiveness of the vaccines has led to skepticism over their value.

  23. 23.

    wjca

    @O. Felix Culpa: folks younger than Boomers, g-d bless’em, don’t remember the days when children could become disabled or even killed by childhood illnesses like whooping cough, polio, and measles. Ironically, the effectiveness of the vaccines has led to skepticism over their value.

    I actually had someone say to me that “Those diseases were dying out on their own when the vaccines came along.”

    I pointed out that I was there then, and they damn well were NOT.  It’s amazing the faux history that’s out there. 

  24. 24.

    jonas

    @O. Felix Culpa: We had an elderly neighbor who passed recently and one of her brothers had died of polio in the 50s (he was in his 20s). Completely undid the family. It was horrible. He would have been just old enough not to have gotten the vaccine.

    I’ll also add, that most people under 50 today also don’t remember when wearing a seatbelt wasn’t a regular thing and even relatively minor auto accidents routinely featured people being decapitated as they flew through windshields. Also, drinking and driving. My mom (a boomer) remembers several white-knuckle car rides back in the day when she was with a friend’s parent who was taking them somewhere and was completely sloshed, just sort of happily weaving all over the highway. She knew it was incredibly dangerous and it scared the crap out of her,  but no-one really made a big deal about it.

  25. 25.

    Glidwrith

    @O. Felix Culpa: How much of this skepticism is actually from people in general though? We’ve heard roughly 80% of this crap is coming from only a handful of people. RFKJ is one of them. The same is true of the anti-trans hate accounts.

    I would love to be able to employ counterintelligence measures to trace the web of hate back to their origins. I’m willing to bet we’d find some shady as shit activities and cut down on this mobilization of hate.

  26. 26.

    Belafon

    @wjca: I saw the manipulated chart once regarding polio. By removing the one data point of the year before the polio vaccine was first administered, the graph can be made to look like the disease was declining. Put that one data point back in and you can see what the vaccine actually accomplished.

  29. 29.

    Kay

    Neary the entire drop off in support for childhood vaccines is among Republicans – specifically, among religious fundamentalist Republicans:

    The decline in support for vaccine requirements for children has been driven by changing views among Republicans: 57% now support requiring children to be vaccinated to attend public schools, down from 79% in 2019. By contrast, there’s been no meaningful change in the large share of Democrats (85%) who support school-based vaccine requirements.
    These dynamics echo patterns seen over the past three years regarding coronavirus-related activity restrictions and COVID-19 vaccine requirements. Partisans have often been at odds over policy questions in these areas, with Republicans much more likely than Democrats to oppose activity restrictions and vaccine requirements.
    White evangelical Protestants – a largely Republican group — have also become much less supportive of vaccine requirements in public schools. In the current survey, 58% say children should be required to be vaccinated to attend public schools, while 40% say parents should be able to decide not to vaccinate their children, even if that may create health risks for others. This represents a sizable shift from 2019, when White evangelicals backed vaccine requirements for public school children by a margin of 77% to 2o%.

  30. 30.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Glidwrith:

    How much of this skepticism is actually from people in general though?

    Good question. I don’t know. It appears that the skepticism is spreading, though, through an intentional disinformation campaign. Not enough people are inoculated against propaganda yet.

  31. 31.

    satby

    @Glidwrith: I agree with you. I think it isn’t a single source, but the ease with which misinformation flows through the news and social media is appalling.

  33. 33.

    Kay

    So it probably isn’t age that determines anti vaxx status, because Democrats (of all ages) remained supportive of vaccines while Republicans (of all ages) had a dramatic drop off that accounts for just about all of the growth of the anti vaxx cohort now.

  34. 34.

    satby

    @Kay: while 40% say parents should be able to decide not to vaccinate their children, even if that may create health risks for others.

    And there’s the key graff. “Me first, fuck the common good”; the Republican mantra since Tricky Dick and Raygun.

  35. 35.

    jonas

    @Jeffro: rump will be gone soon; trumpism (i.e., outright and constant lying in the service of white supremacy and oligarchy) will clearly remain a problem for some time to come.

    Yep. Hitler is long gone and we still have neo-Nazis in a lot of places. But to Vance’s point, wtf is he talking about? When have Democrats attempted to void an election through violent riots? And wtf is Douthat talking about when he says the military and administrative state “behaved terribly?” Not obeying illegal orders? Vance is right. It is about pure power, but self-awareness has never been a strong suit of conservativism.

  36. 36.

    wjca

    @Kay: White evangelical Protestants – a largely Republican group — have also become much less supportive of vaccine requirements in public schools. In the current survey, 58% say children should be required to be vaccinated to attend public schools, while 40% say parents should be able to decide not to vaccinate their children, even if that may create health risks for others. This represents a sizable shift from 2019, when White evangelicals backed vaccine requirements for public school children by a margin of 77% to 20%.

    Well, once you decide (even if for political reasons) that the covid vaccine is unnecessary, it’s not a huge step to deciding that all vaccines are unnecessary.  Evidence, in both cases, be damned.

  39. 39.

    Kay

    @satby:

    Exactly. I genuinely believe they can no longer attend public schools. They no longer buy into some of the basic premises of public education, or really any public endeavor. There’s an absolute refusal to consider anyone else and that’s just incompatible with public entities.

  41. 41.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Kay: Are you suggesting that it is simply a coincidence that anti-vax sentiment is increasing as more and more of the population with a lived memory of the times before regular vaccinations are passing on?

  42. 42.

    Kay

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I am! The NIH studies this. There’s no cohort connection. They did find a connection between a lack of trust in vaccines and use of social media and younger people use social media more, but it’s nearly a wash because the older people who DO use social media – Facebook, primarily- believe more of what they read on social media.

  43. 43.

    Hoodie

    @Kay:That doesn’t necessarily prove the point.   What we know about conservatives is a generally lower level of empathy, which may be viewed as an ability – or willingness – to see beyond your own particular circumstances.  We’ve observed that conservatives can develop sensitivity on certain issues if they or someone close to them personally experiences them.   Dems may have remained more supportive of vaccines, even though not personally experiencing things like polio epidemics, because their modes of thought made them more open to seeing why vaccines might be important, which includes looking back at history that predated you.

  44. 44.

    Nelle

    @Another Scott: Ten years ago, we were in Stockholm for a week.  My husband kept marveling, saying, “This is what it’s like when the government works for, instead of against, the people.”

  48. 48.

    satby

    @Kay: Agree. Plus they insist everyone be limited to only what they want their own children to see. But this is also the group that’s opting out and “homeschooling” their unfortunate offspring to prevent their precious sprogs from “brainwashing”. So long as we can prevent public school money being transferred to private and religious schools via vouchers I’m fine with letting them live in their own enclaves of ignorance. Their smarter kids will escape, as they usually do.

  49. 49.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    A good boss hires good people. We just keep getting an amazing string of accomplishments from Pete Buttigieg at Transportation and Deb Haaland at Interior, one after another. Pete may be the best DOT secretary of my lifetime. Certainly the most visible.

  52. 52.

    satby

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: An effective head of an organization is often its biggest cheerleader too. People like to feel their work is essential and valued. Pete reinforces that with every public appearance. I bet that department hasn’t felt so valued in years.

  53. 53.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Abortion pill remains safe, per SCOTUS (they dismissed the case). Can stay on the market.

  54. 54.

    Kay

    @satby:

    There’s this whole discussion starting in juvenile courts about how “homeschooling” has become a way to hide child abuse and child neglect. If the parents are reported on through a school they simply pull the kids from school – presto- now no one outside the abusive family circle sees the children, so no more pesky child abuse reports. It’s a real issue.

    I think we have to bring back truancy laws. Kamala Harris was 100% right.

  55. 55.

    TBone

    House Intel Committee

    Chrissy Houlahan (D-Pa.), in a letter to Johnson on Tuesday, urged him to “reconsider and reverse” his decision to appoint (“Dr.” Ronny) Jackson and (Traitor Scott) Perry to the panel.

    “With the committee’s critical charge and unique jurisdiction in mind, the appointment of any member unfit for such sacred duty creates untenable risk to national security and our democratic norms,” she wrote.
    Houlahan, an Air force veteran, argued that there are “hundreds of duly elected and upstanding members of Congress on both sides of the aisle” who are qualified to serve on the committee.

  56. 56.

    smith

    @TBone: And of course the usual suspects are throwing monkey wrenches, because the Felon must be appeased:

    Anthony Adragna@AnthonyAdragna 1h 

    New: Six Senate Republicans — @JDVance1, @BasedMikeLee, @BillHagertyTN, @RogerMarshallMD, @TTuberville and @Eric_Schmitt — announce holds on Biden nominees through election day.

    Covers judges, U.S. attorneys and anyone who “suggested the Trump prosecutions were reasonable.”

  57. 57.

    TBone

    @SiubhanDuinne: thank you.  IIRC that case also has other major ramifications.  Great news!  I’m of the opinion that public and press pressures have done some good.

    If the justices uphold the appeals court ruling, it could also pave the way for all sorts of challenges to the F.D.A.’s approval and regulation of medications. Legal experts said medical providers anywhere in the country might be empowered to challenge government policy that might affect a patient. Leaders of the pharmaceutical and biotechnology industries have filed briefs saying that the case could undermine their businesses by destroying their ability to rely on a single national standard for their products.

  59. 59.

    Soprano2

    @Jeffro: I think people really, really underrate the sense to which there is palpable and actionable frustration,

    Oh no, we know how much frustration there is among white men that they aren’t all the masters of the universe anymore. We see it every day, and TCFG is one of the results of it.

  60. 60.

    Jeffro

    @jonas:But to Vance’s point, wtf is he talking about? When have Democrats attempted to void an election through violent riots? And wtf is Douthat talking about when he says the military and administrative state “behaved terribly?”

    In the piece, Vance does a lot of false equivalence between BLM and the J6 rioters.  The military and administrative state thing is for a number of reasons: not carrying out trump’s (unlawful) directives, “finagling” troop deployment numbers, and of course, Milley being prepared (between the election and Inauguration Day) to defy trump’s orders if necessary.

  61. 61.

    satby

    @Kay: Agree again. Or at least put some oversight on homeschooling. They need to be able to pass the same grade exams that public school kids have to, read, write,  and do math at (approximately) the appropriate grade level, etc. Most states have absolutely no oversight at all and a generation of kids is not being educated to survive outside of their sad little fundie ecosystem, which is the point.  But it shouldn’t be dignified as “education” by the state.

  62. 62.

    Soprano2

    @wjca: My mother told me she remembered seeing the big “quarantine” signs on houses where there were kids who had measles when she was a kid. My husband is old enough that he’s immune from measles because he had them as a child, and he’s 77!

  63. 63.

    Jeffro

    @wjca:once you decide (even if for political reasons) that the covid vaccine is unnecessary, it’s not a huge step to deciding that all vaccines are unnecessary.

    true

    it’s practically a requirement; otherwise, the RWNJs just look like psychos who were whipped into freaking out about a particular vaccine in order to kneecap the nation’s pandemic recovery.

    nope – couldn’t be that.  So here we are

  64. 64.

    Baud

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Helps Republicans. Wonder if they’ll find a way to ding the EMTALA case.

    ETA: dismissal on standing is the right outcome.

    ETA 2: May be the first time Alito has dismissed a right wing challenge on standing.

  65. 65.

    Jeffro

    @Hoodie: indeed!

    Hey did y’all know that Vance is also a Putin apologist, and feels that there’s no point in reinstating our former higher tax rates on the rich?  Such a fresh take on things!  On to 2028!!

  66. 66.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @SiubhanDuinne: Thank goodness. Unanimous decision, with BeerBoy writing the opinion.

    “We recognize that many citizens, including the plaintiff doctors here, have sincere concerns about and objections to others using mifepristone and obtaining abortions,” Kavanaugh wrote.

    “But citizens and doctors do not have standing to sue simply because others are allowed to engage in certain activities – at least without the plaintiffs demonstrating how they would be injured by the government’s alleged under-regulation of others.”

    CNN

  67. 67.

    Ken

    @TBone:  Leaders of the pharmaceutical and biotechnology industries have filed briefs saying that the case could undermine their businesses

    Hooray for untrammeled corporate influence on the court system!

  68. 68.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: I think a lot of Republicans have Oppositional Defiant Disorder, commonly known as “you’re not the boss of me”. They don’t think there is any kind of social good now, there’s only “freedom”, which to them means freedom to hurt others if they want to.

  76. 76.

    satby

    @Soprano2: The first measles vaccine was licensed for public use in 1963, when I was 8. By that age, most kids had already had measles. I don’t think they gave it to very young infants as they do now with the MMR vaccine, so up until about 1968, when an improved vaccine came onto the market it was still a fairly common childhood disease. So many people over 60-ish have had the disease, not the vaccine.

  77. 77.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: I think it’s always been used that way by some people. I’m sure most of them don’t even think they’re abusing their kids, they think it’s Biblical discipline. I know we’ve talked about Tara Westover’s book “Educated” here before. That’s an extreme example of the smart ones escaping a terrible situation.

  78. 78.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @Kay: Faster! Faster!

    Really, all we need to do is to isolate them, including their nuclear family. Sucks for their children, but hey, at least they’ll all be in the same cage, dying together of avoidable or treatable diseases.

  79. 79.

    RaflW

    @lollipopguild: Unfortunately, that one call would have been to the US Navy to hit the bridge wreckage and disabled ship with a nuclear-tipped Trident II D5 missile.

  81. 81.

    Hoodie

    @Soprano2: Vance is doing something analogous to justifying spousal abuse “because you made me mad.”  He couches it in some vaguely populist stuff about economic democracy, none of which he will do.  You can bet dollars to donuts he’ll do whatever his wealthy benefactors want.  What a sleazy piece of work.  Albert Speer would be proud.

  82. 82.

    Geminid

    @TBone: Rep. Houlahan is another member of the talented House Class of 2018. She was one of 40 Democrats who flipped Republican seats that year.

  83. 83.

    Soprano2

    @O. Felix Culpa: I suspect their argument that a ruling in favor of the plaintiffs would upend the whole pharmaceutical industry were persuasive to the conservatives on the court.

  84. 84.

    satby

    @Ken: that’s not what happened here. The plaintiffs were challenging an FDA approval of a drug done more than 20 years ago because they didn’t like one of the uses of that drug. Had that been allowed it would cause chaos in the development and approval of all drugs, not just new ones.

  88. 88.

    RaflW

    @Baud: Yup.

    (NYT): Justice Kavanaugh says opponents of the pill have other avenues to object: “Citizens and doctors who object to what the law allows others to do may always take their concerns to the executive and legislative branches and seek greater regulatory or legislative restrictions on certain activities.”

  91. 91.

    Ken

    @O. Felix Culpa: Am I correct in thinking that the current SCOTUS is a little erratic in applying those basic standing rules?

    A baker says it would offend his beliefs if, hypothetically, he someday had to sell a wedding cake to a gay couple => Standing!

    A doctor says it would offend his beliefs if, hypothetically, some doctor prescribed a drug to a patient => No standing!

  92. 92.

    CaseyL

    @O. Felix Culpa: ​
     

    Yes. They ignore standing when they want to.

    In this case, concern about women’s health wasn’t the uniting factor (as if!), but the impact on the pharmaceutical industry.

  95. 95.

    Kay

    @Soprano2:

    I should re-read that. I got a lot out of it that was immediately relevant to my law practice. Abusive parents had to move in the past to stay under the radar- change schools when there was a report- now they just announce they are homeschooling.

    There’s this whole generational fight brewing on the Right too, between parents and grandparents. The grandparents are Foxified so anti vaxx and the parents want not just their children vaxxed but also the grandparents to get boosters before they spend time with new babies – my book club, which is 70% well off Republican women – are all saying they will refuse to get boosters yet insist on seeing their grandchildren. I told them “you will lose this fight”.

  96. 96.

    RaflW

    Reading a bit more of the NYT live-blogy coverage, I’m unclear about Mifepristone access in the 14 total ban states (Times calls ’em near-total-bans, but as research has already shown, the ‘health safety’ exceptions are unactionable window dressing). Obviously in-state docs can’t prescribe, but can an online visit and mailorder be used, or is out of state travel still required?

  97. 97.

    Kay

    It probably would have been better for us politically had they outawed the medication – I know this is bad but it is also THE TRUTH :)

    We could have fucking battered them with that. That’s probably why they didn’t do it.

  98. 98.

    jonas

    @O. Felix Culpa:   at least without the plaintiffs demonstrating how they would be injured by the government’s alleged under-regulation of others.”

    As I’ve mused here in the past, I wonder if there isn’t a case to be made for something like an assault weapons ban using this strategy. What if the nation’s ER trauma surgeons got together and argued in a suit that the proliferation of guns across the country is causing them irreparable psychological harm, seeing the continual stream of gunshot victims, many children, come into their ERs after each mass shooting.

    Makes a lot more sense than the bullshit argument the doctors in this case were trying to float.

  99. 99.

    RaflW

    @Kristine: As I’ve said before, a polio survivor being one of the 3 or 4 most powerful Republicans in America as the party veers dangerously into anti-vaccination territory just really confirms to me how utterly contemptible and immoral Mitch McConnell is.

  100. 100.

    skerry

    @satby: I was born in 1960. I had both measles and mumps while in grade school. My daughter asked me to get the whooping cough vaccine when my grandson was born five years ago.

    In the early 80’s, Purdue had a measles outbreak and offered free shots for every student. I got the vaccine then even though I’d had the disease.

  101. 101.

    Marc McKenzie

    @Glidwrith: The problem is that the anti-vaxx folks have access to social media and are able to spread their bulls#@t to more people.

    Add to that the fact that there are those who still do not understand the basic science behind vaccines–because of cuts to science classes and because our media wants to “let’s have both sides say something” even if one side is bats#@t crazy–and you have a problem.

  102. 102.

    Old School

    NEW @pewresearch  POLL: 31 of 34 countries worldwide have more confidence in Joe Biden than Donald Trump.

    I was curious so I looked it up.

    Question: % who have confidence in ___ to do the right thing regarding world affairs

    The three are:

    Turkey: Biden 8% Trump 10%

    Tunisia: Biden 7% Trump 37%

    Hungary: Biden 24% Trump 37%

  103. 103.

    Scout211

    @Soprano2: My mother told me she remembered seeing the big “quarantine” signs on houses where there were kids who had measles when she was a kid.

    We had that when I was a kid. Each childhood disease had a card with a different color for each disease that we had to display on our front door so anyone could see the color of the card and be forewarned.

    I have often wondered just how far this will go as the anti-science people get more and more attention and followers.

    My mother (born in 1927) lost her father when she was 5 years old from a strep infection.  It was a disease back then with no effective cure.  We don’t think twice about getting a script for antibiotics now and strep is easy to treat and cure.  But will the anti-science influencers start questioning medications like antibiotics because no one dies of strep anymore?

    For a few moments of fame and likes, these people are dangerous.  Deadly dangerous.

    But I’m preaching to the BJ choir here.

  108. 108.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: Isn’t that funny, they refuse to get a booster of a shot they already had! You’re right, they’ll lose that fight and then complain bitterly about how they never get to see their grandchildren. I got checked a few years ago to see if my measles immunity was still good; it wasn’t, so I got a booster. It’s a no-brainer.

  109. 109.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: Maybe, but I think the idea that it would have terrible ramifications for the whole pharmaceutical industry was probably pretty persuasive to them too.

  110. 110.

    Kirk

    @skerry: Same year for me, but my mother was a nurse. I got the magic circle on the shoulderblade instead of mumps or measles – as did my siblings.

    And had classmates out of school for what I never caught. Most of them survived.

  111. 111.

    hueyplong

    A glass-half-empty view of that story about 31 of 34 countries favoring Biden over Trump is how absurd it would be if a 4th country on the other side of the ledger was the US.  Or how oddly fitting it is that one of our closest cohorts seems to be Turkiye.

  112. 112.

    RaflW

    @skerry: My BF’s teaching pastor got whooping cough about 12 years ago when she was in her mid-50s. It was a wake up call for us, we had no idea it was still a thing and that (on reflection, no surprise) decades-old vaccines no longer did that much for the older adult, as herd immunity has been f*ked with.

  113. 113.

    Mike in Pasadena

    In less than one year, the DOD will run out of money, it’s bankrupt! Were drowning in debt after Rethuglicans and trump spent $7 trillion on tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans. We’ve got to cut spending on a wasteful, out-of-control Pentagon spending.

    Just throw Mike Johnson’s words back at him.

  114. 114.

    Mike S. (Now with a Democratic Congressperson!)

    @Marc McKenzie:  You just need to say something unscientific like “Train and prepare YOUR immune system to spot the enemy germs and viruses by showing it what the enemy looks, feels and tastes like before the infectious invasion.

  116. 116.

    RaflW

    @Mike in Pasadena: Looks like Tesla fanbois stockholders are approving his ultra-obscene $56Bn payout. If we can snap-impose Eisenhower (remember that Republican?) top marginal tax rates, Treasury could reap $50Bn.

    Not gonna happen, of course. But that level of rapacious pay screams for tax reform. It’s sooo disgustingly bloated and unmerited.

  117. 117.

    NotMax

    @Kirk

    Father had smallpox scars on his face, if one stood real close to look.

    I have a single pock mark from chickenpox, the only one which has never gone away (not on the face, this one took up permanent residence on the inside of a thigh). Did have measles (German, IIRC) but not mumps nor whooping cough

  118. 118.

    smith

    I and everyone I knew as a kid had the whole gamut of measles, mumps and chicken pox. My younger sister suffered brain damage from measles and it ruined her life. My uncle got polio when he was a medical resident and spent the rest of his life in a wheelchair. Ask me how I feel about anti-vaxxers.

  119. 119.

    Hoodie

    @RaflW: Seems like an admission that the company has little intrinsic value in relation to its stock price. They have some reason to worry that the stock will tank if Musk leaves.   It’s a meme stock and they’re afraid of a precipitous drop if the meme suddenly falls apart.   Better to let the company slowly rot and sell off before it gets too bad.

  121. 121.

    trollhattan

    @O. Felix Culpa:

    “Certain activities” like a high, hanging pitch for future batters to contact, my guess.

    NB Not a lawyer person nor conshtitushinal scholar. But then, what’s Clarence exactly?

  123. 123.

    Ohio Mom

    @wjca: It’s easy to manipulate the statistics on childhood diseases because they come in waves. Just use the numbers at the end of the wave to show it has faded away.

    Once most all kids in an area have been though say, measles or chicken pox, the disease lays low until there’s enough numbers of newer children who haven’t been exposed, and it takes off again.

    After that, the newly-recovered group has lifetime immunity, which is why these diseases strike children. They are the ones without immunity.

    If sometimes wonder how teachers managed. How do you get through the first grade curriculum when your students are continually out in big groups with various illnesses? They must have been constantly backtracking, teaching units over to the kids who missed them the first time.

  124. 124.

    Betty Cracker

    @Jeffro: Thanks for sharing excerpts — reading the whole thing would be too depressing. I also worry about fash-curious dudes like Vance, Cotton, et al., who are trying to ret-con a political philosophy for their out of control clown car of a party. My hope is their distinct lack of razzmatazz will limit their political reach. The rubes demand a show!

  127. 127.

    Soprano2

    So, we got a new dog last weekend from the local charity that rescues animals from the pound. Her name is Harmony, she’s 5 years old and is a husky/Australian shepherd mix. They said she belonged to an elderly man in a town about 30 miles south of here. He died, and they had to get animal control to remove her because she wouldn’t let them remove his body. That’s how they ended up with her. She’s a sweet dog, but there have been issues. We can overcome them, but I’m at that point where I’m wondering if I did get right thing in adopting her. She tries to go out the front door every time we leave; I think her previous owner must have taken her places with him, so for her us going to the front door means time to leave. She and my cat Gary seemed to be adapting to each other pretty well, but then yesterday when I came home Gary was back to hissing at her when she comes close, so something must have happened while I was at work yesterday. I sure hope that gets resolved eventually, they were almost at the friendly touching noses phase two days ago. *sigh* There are plenty of places the cat can get where the dog can’t go, so he is able to be safe from her (although I don’t think she would hurt him, she hasn’t shown any aggression toward him and I asked specifically if she was OK with cats before we adopted her). Yesterday afternoon right after I came home Harmony ran into the dining room, saw Gary outside the window walking through the yard, and got so excited that she hit the glass on the dining room window hard enough to break it! She cut the bottom of her paw when she did that, so now I’m taking her to the vet this afternoon so they can look at it (plus now I have to figure out how to get the window fixed). She needed to go eventually, but I was planning to go later in the month so she could see our regular vet. I sure do hope I did the right thing; our other dog is 13 years old, and I wanted to adopt a new one while hubby could still help me pick her out and get to know her so he could remember her. I can’t imagine him being without a dog. Plus, our other dog needed a companion because he was getting pretty mopy.

  128. 128.

    TBone

    @TBone:

    Among the “likes” which have now been deleted, Vance approved of a tweet accusing Trump of committing “serial sexual assault” and another calling the former president, “one of USA’s most hated, villainous, douchey celebs.”

  129. 129.

    trollhattan

    Weren’t we just talking about Tesla and Musk? They have some interesting bidnez practices.

    The Tesla Cybertruck is unlike most trucks that have come before it, and thus it has attracted a new set of buyers who wouldn’t normally drive a big pickup. Owning and driving a truck that’s over 18 feet long, nearly 8 feet wide, and built like a Frigidaire isn’t for the faint of heart, as one Salt Lake City man recently found out when he tried to negotiate a way to get rid of his Cybertruck.

    Blaine Raddon reserved a Cybertruck after watching the vehicle’s launch online, but since he ordered the truck his living situation changed. He and his wife separated and he moved from a home with a garage into an apartment complex with tight parking slots. Once he picked up his new truck and realized it wouldn’t fit comfortably into his parking spot, he reached out to the dealer that delivered his truck to see if he could return it.

    The manager told Raddon that his situation wouldn’t likely warrant an unforeseen circumstance that would trigger Tesla’s re-purchase of the truck, and reminded him that he signed a Tesla Vehicle Order Agreement which states if a Cybertruck owner sells the EV during the first year, they can be fined $50,000 and be banned from buying future Teslas. According to Business Insider:

    ”Making me keep a truck that does not fit my circumstances appears to be unfair and not at all the spirit of the no sale language in the contract,” he added in the note.

    Raddon told BI that he’s a rule-follower and he doesn’t plan to go against Tesla’s verdict on the matter or hire a lawyer to dispute the decision. He also said his building is okay with him keeping the vehicle there, but they won’t be held liable if the truck gets damaged by another car while protruding from the parking spot.

    Tesla did not respond a request for comment.

    A little like a non-compete clause, but for “car” buyers. Although forbidding a future Tesla buy seems more feature than bug.

  131. 131.

    The Thin Black Duke

    Wait until these evangelical nutjobs find out you can’t pray measles away.

  132. 132.

    trollhattan

    @smith: ​
     Same convention, the first-edition RNC Convention website featured a skyline banner pic that somebody felt did not resemble Milwaukee. Turned out to be Ho Chi Minh City.

  133. 133.

    satby

    @Ohio Mom: I missed the weeks they taught most of the times tables in school because I had chicken pox and was out for two weeks. And it took me another year to catch up because the class had moved on, so I was trying to memorize them while learning the new stuff. Which then all got garbled in my head for a while.

  135. 135.

    Geminid

    @Old School: Turkiye stands out in that poll for the low trust rating given for both Biden and Trump; they don’t trust either man.

    Turks seem to stay suspicious of the US. That may come in part from a common belief that American governments backed the mlitary coups and interventions of the 20th century. Bush’s stupid Iraq war also undercut good will towards the US, and the instability it created led to tension in northeast Syria, where the US is backing a Kurdish group that many Turks see as their enemy.

    So public opinion polls typically show the US at the lower end of popularity when it comes to nations. Fortunately, this antipathy doesn’t seem to affect personal relations, and Americans who travel there say they are treated with genuine hospitality.

  136. 136.

    VFX Lurker

    @RaflW: My BF’s teaching pastor got whooping cough about 12 years ago when she was in her mid-50s. It was a wake up call for us, we had no idea it was still a thing and that (on reflection, no surprise) decades-old vaccines no longer did that much for the older adult, as herd immunity has been f*ked with.

    Adults need to top off with a Tdap booster (tetanus, diphtheria, whooping cough) every ten years to maintain personal immunity. I did not get routine healthcare in my 20’s and only became aware of this fact in my 30’s.

    I also flunked a measles titer test in my 40’s and had to get a third MMR (mumps, measles, rubella) vaccination.

    Herd immunity matters, but individuals can help protect both themselves and the herd.

  137. 137.

    Ken

    @The Thin Black Duke: Wait until these evangelical nutjobs find out you can’t pray measles away.

    There are many stories out there of children who died of easily-treated illnesses because their parents chose to pray over them rather than go to a doctor and get some antibiotics.

  138. 138.

    Soprano2

    @satby: I don’t know. Here’s the thing – we have a decently sized fenced back yard, but when I put her outside she’s barking to come in within two minutes, regardless of whether the other dog is out there or not. If I go out in the yard she’ll stay out there. I think she must have been with her previous owner almost all the time. Maybe I could hire someone to walk her, or get a neighbor to do it, I don’t know. I was hoping that she and my other dog would spend a significant amount of time in the back yard, where she could get exercise and encourage my older dog to play more. That was the plan, anyway.

  139. 139.

    RaflW

    Well looky here. While knocking down the mifepristone case, the EMTALA portion also opined today is a big loss. The Robert’s court gets huge “Abortion pill saved” headlines, and then slides the hollowing of EMTALA past home plate.

    —

    Liz Sepper @lsepper.bsky.social
    The Supreme Court’s FDA v. Alliance for Hippocratic Medicine is not just about standing. It’s about religion. As I predicted following argument, the Court has issued a new, expansive, and incorrect interpretation of federal conscience laws.

    In particular, the Court says that objectors don’t have to provide emergency abortion care. That EMTALA gives away to conscience laws. Doctors can let patients bleed out if they assert federal conscience laws. That’s wrong both morally and legally.

    How do I know? In the 2010s, Republicans in Congress at the urging of the Catholic bishops repeatedly proposed to extend conscience exemptions to EMTALA. None of these acts passed.

    Why does it matter? It creates a legal safe harbor to refuse emergency abortion care nationwide. Catholic hospitals and (where they exist) objecting providers will feel authorized by this Court to deny care as pregnant people suffer serious jeopardy to their lives and health.

    —

    eta: Liz Sepper is a law professor at the University of Texas at Austin

  140. 140.

    Villago Delenda Est

    Supreme Court does something right for a refreshing change and rejects quacks trying to get Mifepristone banned. “No standing”. Duh.

  141. 141.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @RaflW: Of course it is.  The Court is infested with Opus Dei shitstains who want to repeal the Renaissance and everything that followed it.

  142. 142.

    VFX Lurker

    @Geminid: Turkiye stands out in that poll for the low trust rating given for both Biden and Trump; they don’t trust either man.

     

    Turks seem to stay suspicious of the US. That may come in part from a common belief that American governments backed the mlitary coups and interventions of the 20th century. Bush’s stupid Iraq war also undercut good will towards the US, and the instability it created led to tension in northeast Syria, where the US is backing a Kurdish group that many Turks see as their enemy.

    The Biden Administration also recognized the Armenian Genocide, which might not have helped Biden gain favor with Turkiye.

  145. 145.

    Baud

    @RaflW:

    There’s going to be a separate EMTALA decision that’s going to be bad, but I think this decision doesn’t say that hospitals don’t need to comply with EMTALA. Individual doctors get an out.

  147. 147.

    Cheryl from Maryland

    @Another Scott: That design seems forward thinking, practical, and good-looking, as well as the firm’s track record at first glance looks impressive.

  151. 151.

    RaflW

    @Baud: But expanding the individual conscience out means that the shitstains like members of American Association of Pro-Life OBGYNs will gain power, and patients will have fewer options.

    Expanding individual conscience outs means it’s all the more likely that some horrid ER doc will refuse to treat a trans or gay person just because they’re homophobic nightmares.

    God damn conservatives are taking a wrecking ball to “First, do no harm” by enabling a trapdoor in the oath.

  152. 152.

    Soprano2

    @rikyrah: If they could have figured out a way to do it without upending the whole drug approval process, they would have banned it in a hot minute. I’ve always thought the abortion pills were the Achilles’ heel of the anti-abortion movement, because they allow abortion without a physical procedure that is done in a clinic. That’s why some states passed laws that the pills have to be taken in the presence of a doctor, because they knew that people being able to do it in the privacy of their home was bad for the “we want to badger people going into clinics” groups.

  155. 155.

    Nora

    @Omnes Omnibus:  My, so this Supreme Court CAN understand the concept of standing when they want to.  Interesting that in numerous recent cases they seemed to ignore the question altogether.

  157. 157.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Soprano2: You could try rover dot com to find a dog walker, if that’s what’s needed.  Just be sure to read the reviews carefully.  I aim for folks who have a lot of repeat customers.

  158. 158.

    hueyplong

    Experience tells us to assume:

    1 Trump ripping on Milwaukee is a prelude to stiffing the city for arena rental, security services, etc., and sells well to even the Wisconsinites in his base, which assumes that all cities are cop-hating hellholes filled with illegal aliens, ni-clangs, and uppity bitchez with affirmative action degrees in anthropology.

    2 The JD Vance story smells like a VP rival leaking to a place likely to run with it because (a) it leans left instead of right and is therefore more likely to do it on impulse than a RWNJ site that possibly supports Vance, and (b) the site chosen makes me look objective.

  160. 160.

    smith

    @Belafon: Seriously, there are whole states where that’s quickly becoming the norm. OB/GYN doctors who care about women’s health won’t practice there, so the only ones left will be ones who care more about their own religious purity than the health of their patients. Any woman with a life-threatening pregnancy in those states will basically be sentenced to death.

  161. 161.

    Betty Cracker

    @Geminid: Every American I know who’s traveled to Turkey, including the mister, loved it. The Turks aren’t wrong to be suspicious of the U.S.

  162. 162.

    smith

    @rikyrah: There’s also the fact that there are many formerly-apostate Republicans that the Felon has welcomed back into the cult when they decided to bend the knee. It’s not that he’s at all forgiving, but that he lives in the present, is entirely transactional in his interactions, and if they can offer him something, he’ll take it. Vance offers Thiel’s money; The Felon will take it.

  163. 163.

    Mr. Bemused Senior

    @Soprano2: Oh, Soprano2, I wish I had good advice to offer, not just my best wishes.

    Bemused Senior adopted a second dog after her beloved Toro went over the rainbow bridge and Jake turned out to be difficult. We mostly had cats though I had dogs when I was younger.

    I think you choose well based on what you wrote above. Pets are our responsibility once we adopt them and I’m sure you will manage.

    Seems like you’ll need someone to give Harmony attention, at least until she adjusts. Good luck.

  164. 164.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Betty Cracker: ​
     

    Every American I know who’s traveled to Turkey, including the mister, loved it. The Turks aren’t wrong to be suspicious of the U.S.

    1000% agreed. It’s also a very cat-friendly culture.

  167. 167.

    wjca

    @Soprano2: My husband is old enough that he’s immune from measles because he had them as a child, and he’s 77!

    That’s why I’m immune to measles, mumps, and chicken pox.  (Fortunately, I got the polio vaccine, rather than the disease.)  I recall parents deliberately taking kids to play with other kids who had one of those “childhood diseases”.  Because getting them as an adult was much worse.

  168. 168.

    pat

    @Jeffro:

    I just read the excerpts that you provided, and boy is this bit about “Power” nothing but projection.  The repukes get in charge, they use their POWER to change whatever they want, and they do everything they can to keep their POWER.

    Of course, if that’s what they do, obviously that’s what the Dems will do too….

    We wish??

  171. 171.

    Steeplejack

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I haven’t seen any of the legal eagles’ takes yet. Was the opinion written in a “Someone with genuine standing please bring this back” way?

  172. 172.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Steeplejack: Haven’t read the full thing, but the fact that is was 9-0 with only Thomas writing a concurrence says that probably wasn’t.

  173. 173.

    Geminid

    @VFX Lurker: I don’t think Turks care much about the genocide issue these days. They know many Westerners will always hold it against them, but as far as Turks are concerned the Armenian Genocide was perpetrated by an Ottoman government 8 years before the Turkish Republic was founded in 1923, and they will turn the page on it.

    At least, I don’t see Turks talk about the US position on the genocide. There was a brief flurry last fall over a Disney Plus movie about Kemal Ataturk, when Armenian-Americans vociferously lobbied against Disney showing the movie. Disney finally caved, but the movie was still shown in Turkish theaters and the controversy died down.

    Turks still resent the power that Armenian- and Greek-Americans wield in Congress, but there is little they can do about it except cheer when someone like Senator Menendez gets busted.

    Turkish /American relations are actually fairly good right now, better than they have been for a couple of decades. There was a turning point last July, when President Erdogan assented to Swedish Nato membership. That was in the eve of the Nato Summit in Vilnius. Presidents Biden and Erdogan had a good meeting on the summit sidelines, and the next month there was a notable display of US/Turkish naval cooperation in the eastern Mediterranean

    If this trend continues Turkish appraisal of Biden and the US should improve, but probably slowly; people can be very comfortable with their prejudices, especially when it comes to foreign. countries

  175. 175.

    Melancholy Jaques

    @smith:

    I guess he doesn’t want Milwaukee’s votes, just Wisconsinites who agree that Milwaukee is bad. Trump’s voters probably never go there.

  178. 178.

    Another Scott

    @SiubhanDuinne: Yay!

    Made me look.

    TheHill says it was unanimous and the decision was written by Kavanaugh.

    SCOTUSBlog.com – They lack standing.

    The Supreme Court on Thursday threw out a lawsuit seeking to roll back access to mifepristone, one of the two drugs used in medication abortions. In a unanimous decision, the court ruled that the doctors and medical groups challenging the expansion of access to the drug by the Food and Drug Administration in 2016 and 2021 lack a legal right to sue, known as standing.

    Writing for the court, Justice Brett Kavanaugh acknowledged what he characterized as the challengers’ “sincere legal, moral, ideological, and policy objections” to elective abortion “by others” and to FDA’s relaxed regulation of mifepristone. But the challengers had not shown that they would be harmed by the FDA’s mifepristone policies, he explained, and under the Constitution, merely objecting to abortion and the FDA’s policies are not enough to bring a case in federal court. The proper place to voice those objections, he suggested, is in the political or regulatory arena.

    [ wink, wink, nudge, nudge ]

    How do we know they’re sincere?? Grr…

    It would be nice if we had a SCOTUS that didn’t perpetually work to find ways to make things worse (by inviting more fascistic Bible-thumping yahoos to keep getting in everyone else’s business, even if they’re not yet willing to totally destroy the legal system in the process)…

    Thanks.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  179. 179.

    Another Scott

    @Soprano2: I assume she’s still excited at the new surroundings and trying to figure out the new routine, and wanting to be active.

    We’ve got a mutt who’s an Aussie mix.  When we go on walks, she practically drags me down the street for the first 20-30 minutes, when she’s not sniffing around to try to find something to eat.

    Are you able to walk her for 30-60 minutes a day?  If not, maybe get a toy she enjoys and throw it down the hallway and have her bring it back a few times in a row?  Something to get her energy out.

    Good luck!!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  180. 180.

    Another Scott

    @RaflW: Grr…

    Biden-Harris and the next Democratic Congress should have some giant “clarify that the US Code means what it says about people’s rights” omnibus bills ready on day 1 to fix all this nonsense.

    Thanks.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  181. 181.

    topclimber

    @Geminid: Turkey and Tunisia are two of the three Muslim  countries included in the poll. The third, Malaysia, is outside the Middle East theater. Perhaps these folks are a tad upset about what is going on in Palestine and don’t see or buy that Biden is better than Trump on this issue.

  182. 182.

    satby

    @Soprano2: yes, an elderly man who died as previous owner does sound like she was with him most of the time, and it also sounds like she’s anxious her new people will disappear suddenly too. She’s still getting used to all the changes in her life, hopefully some extra exercise and time adjusting is all that will be needed for her to catch on to a new routine.

  185. 185.

    Geminid

    @topclimber: The Gaza issue probably plays a part in the low rating Turks give Biden. A majority of Turks take the Palestinian side in the general conflict, and Erdogan has condemned Israel vociferously over the war. And after months of barking, he finally bit Israel with an embargo of exports to that country. This was more than a nip, because Turkiye is a major supplier of steel and concrete for Israel’s construction industry. I suspect current contracts are being fulfilled though.

    The embargo was a response to domestic pressure. There had been a consumer boycott of Israeli goods that started not long after the war began, but activists kept pointing out Turkiye’s extensive exports to Israel and this issue trumped Erdogan’s normally business-friendly policies.

    The Gaza war probably was the reason Erdogan’s visit to Washington, DC was postponed. I don’t think it will affect relations in the long term though.

  186. 186.

    Soprano2

    @satby: I definitely need to get her some toys when I go to WalMart this Saturday. My current dog doesn’t have any because he tore up anything we gave him, including the super strength Kong that was supposed to be indestructible. When I saw it was starting to get torn I put it and the other stuff my mom got him upstairs. I should dig it out and see if Harmony wants to play with it. Something else she does is suck on pillows. She doesn’t chew them, she just sucks on them. Maybe that’s an anxiety thing?

  188. 188.

    Soprano2

    @Steeplejack: You might be right. I’m hoping that as she gets used to us, and the cat gets used to her, things will get better. I need to figure out how to get her to spend more time outside. Maybe if I get her some toys she’ll play with them outside. I don’t know, I’m more the cat person and he’s more the dog person.

  189. 189.

    satby

    @Soprano2: yes, sounds like an anxiety thing and she’s self-soothing. She may have been taken from her mother be before she was fully weaned, but that’s water under the bridge now. I think a regular routine she can count on, more exercise, even if it’s the toy toss down the hall, and some loving attention and gentle discipline will do the trick. She’s only been there a few days. And if the weather’s decent, playing fetch with both dogs outside so they get used to each other can help. Would your husband do that with you, sitting outside?

    Just saw your last answer and I’m going to note too, she’s probably picking up on your anxiety about it all. If you got the dog for him and he’s not actually able to interact with her, and you’re not that interested either, it is a bad fit. You have enough on your plate. I think she’ll get the hang of things eventually, but if the dog and the humans don’t really want her, she’s going to know. Bring her back for a family she’s a better fit for in that case.

  190. 190.

    Geminid

    @topclimber: They seem fairly wary of both of them. Trump-era sanctions on Turkiye did real damage in the short term. And he continued the US military mission in eastern Syria. Our principal ally there is the YPG militia, which Turks correctly say is a branch of the hated (by them) PKK.

    This is a real sore point among Turks, but so far US/Turkish deconfliction efforts have succeeded in avoiding major problems.

    I don’t think the US mission in eastern Syria will stay much longer anyway. It and the mission right across the border in Iraq were a response to the rise of the Islamic State and were never intended to be permanent. The Iraqi government doesn’t really need them anymore and Syria’s government never wanted them in the first place.

    The US mission in Erbil, Iraq will be around for a while, but the Kurdish Regional Government it supports is on good terms with Turkiye so that is not a problem for Ankara.

  191. 191.

    Soprano2

    @satby: He interacts with her, and I do too some, but of course he doesn’t interact like he would have three years ago. You’re right that I need to make more of an effort with her, and to get him to do the same. When the caretaker is there they go outside and walk around the yard, and the dogs probably go with them. I’ll talk to her about it, she might be able to do some things when it’s not too hot.

  192. 192.

    Another Scott

    @Soprano2: Our first dog, a shepherd/border collie mix, did that nursing thing too with her stuffed animals.  When we first got her she would chew up her bed and the bottom of the kitchen cabinets and would roll over belly up and pee whenever she met women on the walk who wanted to pet her.

    She grew out of that, but never quite gave up the nursing stuff.

    She never grew out of seeing J put on a belt – it would freak her out and she’d go super-submissive.  (We suspect something like her first owner hit her with a belt at least once?)

    She was wicked-smart.  Knew the names of her toys – “go get your elephant!”.  Great dog.  We still miss her.

    Dogs remember a lot.  It takes time for them to adjust.

    Hang in there, and best of luck!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  194. 194.

    Gretchen

    @Soprano2: She’ll probably be more willing to stay outside more once she’s more used to being there. We have an anxious rescue dog who used to bark wildly every time a truck went by and I just realized he doesn’t do that anymore now that he’s used to us.

  196. 196.

    Scout211

    @Soprano2: I’m late to this thread since my power was out for 3 hours. But I wanted to make sure that you are thinking about yourself and taking in consideration your stress level and how much adding a new dog might be adding to your plate, which is already quite full.

    Just from my own experience, people are always asking about how my husband is doing but rarely ask how I am doing.  So I will ask, how are you doing with this?

    And please, take care of yourself.

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