Join CNN as President Biden and former President Trump meet for their first highly anticipated debate of this election season. Thursday, June 27 at 9p ET on CNN and streaming on Max. pic.twitter.com/TUDfIFiG4B
— CNN (@CNN) June 18, 2024
Chris Cillizza unable to find work in this economy: Advantage America https://t.co/sCF6j7VbXs
— First Elden Lord, Joe Biden (@TonyMoonbeam) June 18, 2024
These were debate rules agreed upon on day one. Only a surprise because no one absorbed that Trump got bumrushed into the debate, agreed to things he normally never would have. Always been a decent chance he won't show up. At least he'll start pitching nonsense reasons to bail.
— Josh Marshall (@joshtpm) June 17, 2024
I like the early debate… Biden knows this and right wing media isn't going to be able to edit out his insane ramblings in real time. So then there will be four months of ads of Trump saying gibberish and Biden speaking clearly and concisely, even with a speech impediment.
— Mack's Cats (@maxkatz515) June 19, 2024
The Economist — “Will the Trump-Biden showdowns be an institution’s last gasp, or a new start?”:
“WE AIN’T DEAD yet,” Frank Fahrenkopf insisted last month on “The Daily Show”, an American TV programme. Jon Stewart, the host, looked sceptical. Mr Fahrenkopf leads the Commission on Presidential Debates (CPD), a non-partisan body whose sole purpose is to organise match-ups every four years. This year his group will have nothing to do with them. In May, after signalling that he might not participate at all, Joe Biden challenged Donald Trump to debate him—on Mr Biden’s terms. Mr Trump agreed. The presidential candidates will face off twice. Unusually, news networks, rather than the CPD, will host the encounters. They will take place months earlier than they normally would. The first is scheduled for June 27th. How will these new arrangements change presidential debates?…
Over the years the CPD’s format became standardised: it put on three 90-minute debates, divided into six 15-minute segments, during each general-election year. Third-party candidates were eligible only if they appeared on enough ballots to win the electoral college and polled at 15% or higher.
But both Republicans and Democrats have complained about the CPD in recent years. The parties have wanted debates to be held earlier in the year, to account for a rise in early voting, which surged during the pandemic. Mr Trump’s campaign criticised the CPD for setting this year’s first debate for September 16th; ten states will have begun mailing out ballots by then. In truth, candidates have another reason to favour early debates: it gives them more time to recover from gaffes. Republicans also claimed that the commission was “biased” in its selection of moderators: one, chosen for a debate in 2020 that did not take place because Mr Trump had covid, had interned for Mr Biden decades before.
The conditions that Mr Biden proposed last month reveal his worries. In the first debate four years ago Mr Trump constantly interrupted both the moderator and Mr Biden. This month CNN, the host, will mute microphones when the candidates are not entitled to speak. There will be no studio audience, which will thwart Mr Trump’s impulse to whip up sympathetic crowds. CNN is adhering to the CPD’s standard for third-party candidates. If ABC, the host of September’s debate, does too, then Robert Kennedy junior, who is on the ballot in six states so far and polling well, could plausibly qualify.
The CPD rejects the campaigns’ complaints over timing. It insists that its proposed date would affect only a small number of voters, while giving independent candidates enough time to secure a place on ballots. It also argues that the debates agreed to by Mr Biden and Mr Trump, which will only be disseminated by the host network, will reach a smaller audience. Still, Mr Fahrenkopf conceded that if the campaigns “can reach some agreement…and [the debate] happens”, that is good news. For now the Biden and Trump camps, divided on everything else, seem to have struck a deal. Whether future campaigns will do so is up for debate.
Barring some kind of surprise upset, RFK Jr will not be at CNN’s debate, and IMO this is better for everyone, including RFK Jr. His biggest fans are pretty pissed / pissy about that, per the Washington Post:
Independent presidential candidate Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has repeatedly claimed that he appears on enough statewide ballots to qualify for next week’s debate between President Biden and Donald Trump and has threatened to sue CNN for not letting him on the stage.
But a Washington Post survey of state election officials found Kennedy is not on the ballot in several states where he has claimed he is — and he will not reach the requirement by Thursday’s deadline to qualify for the debate. The rules of CNN’s debate indicate candidates must appear on enough ballots nationwide to earn the requisite 270 electoral votes needed to win the presidency, along with earning 15 percent support in four national polls.
Election officials in Utah, Delaware, Oklahoma, Michigan and Tennessee have confirmed Kennedy will be on the ballot. Additionally, CNN has counted California and Hawaii, where Kennedy is the presumptive nominee of minor parties where the states have either not certified him or received paperwork. Those states add up to 100 electoral votes. Kennedy also has not yet met the polling requirement for the debate, though could if a qualifying poll is released before Thursday.
Kennedy intended to get on all 50 states’ ballots quickly as he sought to gain national attention that would come from sharing a debate stage with the two major-party candidates. Kennedy has pointed to his exclusion as evidence that he has been treated unfairly by the parties and the media…
Kennedy’s campaign has argued that Biden and Trump similarly should not qualify for the stage under CNN’s rules because they have not yet officially been selected as the presidential nominee by their respective parties. The Republican and Democratic nominating conventions are in July and August, respectively. But CNN has said that because Trump and Biden are their respective parties’ presumptive nominees, and major-party candidates don’t have to petition states for ballot access, both satisfy the electoral college criteria for the debate, according to CNN…
Third-party candidates would typically be advantaged by the late summer deadlines for ballot access, allowing them time to continue to organize even after major-party candidates are nominated, said Bernard Tamas, a political science professor at Valdosta State University in Georgia and author of “The Demise and Rebirth of American Third Parties.” Kennedy has said he has strategically delayed some petitions to avoid challenges.
“His problem is, for the debate, it’s so fast that it’s not set up for him to get on,” Tamas said. “It’s just a moment that’s not working for him.”…
Speaking of pissy, the MAGAts aren’t happy either:
First of all you little cockroach, that president Biden agreed to debate a convicted felon is demeaning and for you to suggest Biden’s a drug user is f**king disgusting. Did you forget drugs were shared like candy under Trump, who because of his drug dependencey wears diapers? pic.twitter.com/jAfdaFQ1Ja
— Marlene Robertson (@marlene4719) June 19, 2024
Mar-A-Lago court jester Haberman sounds pretty discouraged, IMO…
The New York Times' @maggieNYT has new reporting on how Trump is preparing for next week's CNN debate. pic.twitter.com/4eterirVbi
— Anderson Cooper 360° (@AC360) June 20, 2024
Best ways for Trump to run away from the debate like a little bitch
— Josh Marshall (@joshtpm) June 18, 2024
You forgot “My probation officer won’t let me.”
— Lauren Marinaro (@lauren_marinaro) June 18, 2024
Raising Funds for 2024: NC Black Alliance Youth Engagement
HumboldtBlue
Trump ain’t gonna show up, he’s not cognitively fit.
Can you imagine being the flunky who has to teach this motherfucker the most basic shit during “policy time?” Everything that describes Trump also describes a kindergartner. And Haberman sat there with a straight face, spewing this shit.
E.
Until just now, I had never heard Maggie Haberman speak. Oh sweet Jesus on the Turnpike, does she work for him? I mean that was just embarrassing. Embarrassing.
sdhays
I just read over at the Great Orange Satan that RFK Jr.’s campaign is short of cash, even with his running mate’s wealth. Apparently the campaign is bizarrely ignoring her, which seems like a weird way to treat the person you intend to bankroll your
griftcampaign…So, I wouldn’t hold my breath on that awful man gaining steam. Thankfully.
SpaceUnit
I really don’t see the point of this debate.
sdhays
@HumboldtBlue: When has that ever stopped him?
RaflW
“No prewritten notes … advantage Trump”
The fuck? I see what Cillizzard doing, it’s a ‘Biden is old’ thing. But it’s Trump who can’t find his verbal ass with both hands!
3Sice
Convicted felon will beg off claiming he has to deal with “the Afghanistan”.
kos is happily hammering RFK Jr’s campaign. Neither side wants him as a stalking horse, so no money, no organization, and no coordination with his VP pick.
HumboldtBlue
Speaking of actual billions:
Harrison Wesley
@RaflW: Biden will think before he speaks, which is what most of us would expect a person of normal intelligence (regardless of age) to do. Trump just opens his mouth and lets the shit gush out. Trump’s cult will see this as him being a manly man. I have no idea why Cillizza thinks anybody else would look at it that way.
Scout211
RFK, jr is polling well? What?
I wonder how that author defines “well.”
Another Scott
@SpaceUnit: Eh? More words, please.
The point for who? Biden? The press? Normie voters who haven’t been paying attention? TCFFG?
Cheers,
Scott.
Ken
@Scout211: Outside the margin of error? Except I don’t think he’s even hitting that, in a lot of polls.
E.
@RaflW: Actually I took it to mean notes have zero importance to a semi-literate imbecile, so advantage Trump. But your point is excellent , this being Cilliza (spit).
RaflW
Maggie Haberman needs a drug test if she thinks Trump is actually getting policy briefings. Enough of his former top staffers/cabinet members have done tell-alls that even she knows he’s unbriefable. It’s really pretty gross to see her go on TV and act like something that many of us know is not functionally happening. OK, people are standing up in front of Trump and trying to brief him, I can believe that that is very occasionally being attempted. But she calmly makes it sound like it’s a recurring thing and that we can infer that it’s going well.
Hahahaha. Mags is a joke.
Scout211
It depends on whether you expect the candidates to makes sense when they speak extemporaneously or just speak gibberish. Trump can speak gibberish without any notes at all! Really, he’s talented like that. Biden would try to make his words make sense and even might pause to think. Advantage Trump!
SpaceUnit
@Another Scott:
It would be like you or me debating some crazy drunken meth-head who’s pushing a shopping cart down the sidewalk and throwing rocks at cars. What’s the point?
But for our useless MSM it’s yet another opportunity to normalize and legitimize trump by putting him on the same stage as Biden.
And of course they’ll go on to muddy the waters between their two vastly different performances in the interest of the all-important horserace. Count on it.
Redshift
@RaflW: It’s plausible to call it a small advantage for Trump only because Biden would be capable of using notes effectively if they were permitted, and Trump is going to spout whatever BS pops into his head, so notes would do him no good. But it’s still obvious Cillizza only put it that way to avoid saying Trump got rolled on the debate rules.
RaflW
@Scout211: I went to 538, and polls that included Kennedyspawn were between 3% and 10%, with one 11%. I don’t know what the ‘four major polls’ criteria is for major, but barring a total meltdown of one of the two party candidates (and hey, Trump could indeed have a reactor containment breach), getting outta single digits is going to be hard.
The first 5% is a gimme, there’s always enough cranky people to just say “fuck it, I’ll take door #3.” Getting to 15% requires a solid plan and investment in campaigning.
RaflW
@SpaceUnit: OK. But I agree with the notion up above that this early debate will give some very clippable total nonsense from Trump.
Ironcity
@RaflW:
“The fuck? I see what Cillizzard doing, it’s a ‘Biden is old’ thing. But it’s Trump who can’t find his verbal ass with both hands, a map and a flashlight. Fixed it for you
CaseyL
Do we take it as a given that his handlers drug Trump up according to whatever event he’s at?
Sedatives at the trial, amphetamines for debates? He’ll be energetic, which is what the MSM will highlight. “He has so much energy! In contrast to Biden, who seems a little slow, IYKWIM.”
Another Scott
@SpaceUnit: The tradition of voters for president seeing the major candidates answering questions together in an unfiltered setting is worth maintaining. Even if one of them is a narcissistic, brain damaged, fascist. Especially if one of them is a narcissistic, brain damaged, fascist.
TCFFG needs to be seen by voters in environments that he does not control. This debate will help defeat him in the election.
The slanted press and TCFFG’s enablers trying their mightiest to spin the results to be different from what we see with our own lying eyes doesn’t change that.
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
3Sice
@RaflW:
If he gets out of hand, turn on The Apprentice for him. He likes that program.
Doc Sardonic
@Ironcity: You forgot the 360° mirror setup
Urza
@Scout211: I saw a poll showing RFK Jr at 20%. I don’t know where that was though, I didn’t think enough of its quality to bother. There’s alot of people out there who think Biden is an empty suit even if they would vote for him. Or senile and others running the government. The propaganda worked quite well this time around and I hate to imagine what it will be like with AI fakes all over the place. 95%+ of the public don’t know more than whats on the major news outlets and their social media feeds. Those algorithms give you more of what you’re already seeing so its easy to skew that quickly.
Ken
Or enough money to hire (or create) a polling firm that’s willing to push-poll until they get the results that you want.
SpaceUnit
@Another Scott:
Hope you’re right. I do like your optimism.
piratedan
@Another Scott: we’ve already seen the laughable response that GOP pols get when trying to gaslight us about J6 causes, I’m sure that they’ll try to do the same with his debate performance.
I’d like the President to simply say that they will NOT provide briefings to anyone who is still awaiting trial for mishandling intelligence information and ask the press to explain why it should be any different.
Lyrebird
Quoted
For
Truth.
Thank you!!!!
Jay
So, I am trying to figure out my odds,……….
I have Sharks, batteries, The Afghanistan, Joan Rivers, Sir, witch hunt and Hunter Biden on my CNN Debate Bingo card.
Anybody else got those? Are they on all the cards?
RaflW
@Another Scott: Cheers indeed. I think this is quite possible.
Part of the media spin that happens is that they ‘clean up’ what he rambles on and on about and type it up as if it has a kernel of meaning (usually the kernel is something a campaign flak inserts, or it’s what the ‘reporter’ wants Trump to be saying).
Hopefully lots of people will have a “Do you trust the media or your lying eyes that just saw a decompensating nutjob blather endlessly?” moment.
SpaceUnit
@Jay:
I’ve also got alien moon bases.
I like my chances.
Jay
jefftiedrich.com/p/author-who-interviewed-trump-confirms
RaflW
@Jay: There will be at least one flash of anger “You’re very biased. It’s OK, I expect it from you but you’re VERY unfair” thrown at the moderators.
David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch
@Jay:
what, no “he had tears in his eyes”, no “he was a big guy”?
Shalimar
@RaflW: I assumed it was a reference to Trump having no policy positions on any issue that he has to remember.
Ironcity
@Doc Sardonic: I was thinking low tech.
sdhays
@CaseyL: Trump feeds off an audience. This is an interview that he can’t just walk out on if he doesn’t like it because it’s live and if he leaves Biden is still there, so the show will go on.
He is going to hate it, if he doesn’t forget where he is.
Harrison Wesley
Doing that whole thing with the Afghanistan – the dance craze that’s sweeping Dementia!
sdhays
@RaflW: Probably should put “calling a moderator ‘nasty’” on the bingo card. Especially if one of the moderators is female.
Shalimar
@SpaceUnit: Doesn’t “alien moon bases” depend heavily on Elon Musk or Newt Gingrich helping Trump with debate prep?
Doc Sardonic
For the most part, I think TCFG sticks with his old school mix of crushed pseudoephedrine and Adderall, with maybe a Christmas tree or pink football to add just a little kick, for rally’s and other things. That’s a large part of why there is a smoking hole where his cerebral cortex used to be. I figure since he likes to go old school, for the trials he has been running for the shelter of Mother’s little helper.
Harrison Wesley
He’ll probably have to take something to keep him plugged up. While it would be dramatic, dropping a pantload during a televised debate probably would have an adverse effect on his campaign.
Melancholy Jaques
@RaflW:
Haberman is the outlet for whatever Trump’s inner circle wants her to say or write. We’ve known that for years and Cohen confirmed it.
She will be part of the post-debate chorus that insists Trump did well, exceeded expectations, was remarkably engaged, and so on and so forth.
Her defenders claim she’s a savvy political reporter, but after she described Biden as a very flawed candidate running a flawed campaign, he beat Trump by seven million and won Georgia and Arizona.
Jay
@Melancholy Jaques:
Yeah, Hab’s is a bought and paid for asset, always has been.
Ken
I still think there’s a good chance Trump doesn’t show. Maybe we need an alternate bingo card with the lame reasons he might give, like “sharks”.
Another Scott
Meanwhile, …
Multi-trillion dollar company that won’t answer a simple question. Hmm…
Grr…,
Scott.
Jay
@Ken:
It would be hard to design an actual bingo card for Shitolini skipping the debates. I mean you’ve got “rigged”, “my parole officer won’t let me”, “gag order”, “Barron’s Graduation”, “Court date” and a few others, but it’s not enough to fill a proper Bingo card set.
You need a minimum of 99 “different” possible reasons, in 50 different combinations for it to be a Bingo card.
Urza
@Another Scott: Pretty sure some topics get turned off. The input data is to garbled and it won’t give the answer someone wants to see. The AI only has the input data it was trained on. Its why the Google search AI has been such a failure since it was trained on Reddit. Wait until Elon’s AI trained on X is fully ready.
OpenAI trained on the entire internet, this is still not a good thing because AIs have no idea whats fact or fiction. It should have been AIs training on Einstein and Bach before being allowed out to 4chan but here we are.
3Sice
There is a non-zero chance he’ll straight up hallucinate on stage.
He used to flip out and take off from The Apprentice set, so yes, ordering the car to turn around and leaving CNN in the lurch is on the bingo card.
Jay
@Urza:
the answer to any question will be either “Putin” or “Hitler”,…………..
Matt McIrvin
@RaflW: Third-party candidates almost always get votes way below their polling, even quite close to Election Day (if I remember these things correctly). I think the people who name them in polls have low propensity to actually vote.
Jackie
@CaseyL: Biden would be wise to challenge TCFG to a drug test the week/day of the debate and volunteer to the same.
piratedan
@Jay: at this point I could almost expect a “Used Cars moment” when the debate is interrupted by outside means to show a three minute MAGA political ad when Trump begins to speak to mask his issues….
youtube.com/watch?v=UqlJvGvtOvY
Another Scott
@Urza: This makes sense and is a good reminder.
Still, all the evangelists and VC folks who are setting billions of dollars on fire (and pumping up nVidia’s stock and order books) aren’t talking about these limitations. They’re giving us the happy news about AIs passing bar exams and doing all the drudge work of preparing for meetings and on and on.
It makes me question what the bar exam is actually testing…!
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
Jay
@Another Scott:
And yet,……..
3Sice
I’m going with Katie Britt in the VP stakes. Like Pence, she’s the kind of desperate, sad sack loser that Trump likes to kick around, and subconsciously recognizes as self.
wjca
I’m going with: RFK, Jr. has/has not been included.
That’s something his campaign staff could actually spin. Either way.
Jay
@3Sice:
oddschecker.com/us/politics/us-politics/us-presidential-election/republican-vp-nominee
dmsilev
@3Sice: She became something of a national laughingstock after her SOTU response speech. Which, in Trump’s eyes, probably equates to weakness.
dmsilev
@3Sice:
Unlike Clint Eastwood, Joe Biden wouldn’t have any trouble winning a debate against an empty stool or chair. He’d crack some joke and then just start answering questions from the moderators.
Dmbeaster
@RaflW: The ridiculous idea that anyone is allegedly giving Trump policy briefings, as if that could ever work, reminds me of that Far Side cartoon “what dogs hear”
pinterest.com/pin/333266441185178131/
The first panel entitled What We Say to Dogs is someone scolding the dog: Okay, Ginger! I’ve had it! You stay out of the garbage! Understand, Ginger? You stay out of the garbage, or else!
The second panel entitled What They Hear: blah blah Ginger blah blah blah blah blah blah blah Ginger blah blah blah blah…
Just replace “Ginger” with “Trump”
And Mags is just his performing clown. Some nit around Trump told her this BS, and she repeats it without a moment’s reflection. Cooper then puts that on as “news” – a low point for him.
HumboldtBlue
@dmsilev:
That’s my sense, too, she has a loser stink to her now. Hell, even odious repubs love dogs.
strange visitor (from another planet)
@Another Scott: i just asked. copilot DOES say that biden is president and that on jan 6th the snooze criminal’s mob descended on the capitol to prevent the certification of electors.
dmsilev
@HumboldtBlue:
Though some, like Mitt Romney, express that love in …innovative ways.
wjca
Having observed how much TCFG repeats himself, I look at his previous VP pick.
And who on the scene most resembles Pence for being an obsequious little toad who will never, ever, upstage the boss (because he’s incapable of it)? Yup: Speaker Mike Johnson.
HumboldtBlue
@dmsilev:
Indeed.
strange visitor (from another planet)
@HumboldtBlue: noem v cricket?
note also that pervert hoover calls anyone he doesn’t like “a dog” (unless you’re a woman, in which case you’re “nasty”). he also likes to say he’s sweating like a dog, which cracks me up every time…
bc dogs don’t sweat.
Another Scott
@strange visitor (from another planet): 👍
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
HumboldtBlue
Late night TV ain’t close to what it used to be, but Jimmy Kimmel’s opening tonight reminds of just how batshit insane the Trump saga is. Utter fucking madness.
I just realized I got the cricket southern lady confused with the dog murderer lady from one of the Dakotas.
They’re all of a piece, rotten to the core.
theturtlemoves
@strange visitor (from another planet): Yeah, there’s definitely a guardrail in place that triggers on phrases semantically related to the last election and results. I’m guessing telemetry was showing a bunch of MAGAs (or more likely Russian bots) trying to get it to hallucinate something stupid so they just put the block in to avoid the stupidity. More of a hammer than I would have chosen, but I can sympathize.
piratedan
if we’re discussing DJT VP picks, I have a hard time imagining him picking any female unless she’s also doing him because he’s just that much of a vile POS.
I tend to think its down to three… Vance, Scott or Burgum
Burgum because he’s a nonety, a brunette Pence with even less free will
Scott to “deflect” the racism claims in case he believes that’s even needed
Vance if he needs to trot someone out to the media to shield him
I tend to think it’ll be Vance.
eversor
@Another Scott:
So you have to keep in mind that the AI you are interacting with is just one sort of type. The reason there are blocks and controls in place is that very early on AI spouted all sorts of racist nonsense because well, the internet is for porn!
But there are other companies, IBM is one, that are training AI on limited models to accomplish specific tasks for the sake of getting rid of the human worker. IE imagine a McDonalds with basically no workers. AI is doing all the order handling, all the cooking, and all the rest. Or pretty much any sort of creative work.
So sure you if you really want to you can train up an AI to do a specific thing and do it really good. But these general purpose ones are a bit of a hot mess right now.
strange visitor (from another planet)
@theturtlemoves: i mean, i straight up asked it who the president was. it responded correctly. if it got shit as blatant as “who is the president of the united states of america in 2024” wrong, we’re in “sky-is-green” territory.
as a separate query, i asked copilot “what happened on january 6th, 2021” and it gave a rather comprehensive, accurate answer. i thought it’d hedge on THAT, but nope.
prostratedragon
“The Moritat of Mack the Knife,” Kurt Weil; U.S. Marine Band
I think the conductor wanted to break out in a Charleston.
jonas
I think she probably has to contractually appear on CNN shows a certain number of times or something, so it may not be all Cooper’s fault. That said, yeah, it’s obvious that the Trump people really made sure to give her the “scoop” on Trump’s debate prep, if you can call it that. The guy has never let anyone teach him a thing in his life and he’s not about to start now. I think this was a lot more about Trump getting to hand out bragging rights to certain GOP pols for being “the guy they asked to explain the EU elections to him” or whatever. In the end, though, he probably popped a cold Coke and told whoever it was to go fuck themselves three seconds into the schpiel because the pie charts and cartoons on the handout were too complicated.
Can you imagine a reporter telling someone like Anderson Cooper that Biden wasn’t prepping for the debate in a “traditional” way, but that a steady stream of Democratic politicians from Capitol Hill were coming by the WH to try and explain some policy basics to him in a desperate attempt to make sure that he had at least a few coherent points to argue?
Martin
@Urza: That’s not a ‘we didn’t train it on the answer’ problem, that’s a ‘we don’t want the tool to say the answer because it’ll cause half our customers to drop us’ problem.
You can’t turn off that kind of information because it’s too broadly distributed among reliable sources. It would be a fun line of inquiry – who is the current president? How did he become president? etc.
strange visitor (from another planet)
@Martin: as i said, i asked directly who won the election and it didn’t blanch. answered the follow-up about jan 6th coherently as well.
NotMax
@SpaxwUInit
Moon bears.
:)
JaySinWA
@strange visitor (from another planet): I just asked Copilot
and got:
So I see what Another Scott saw.
HumboldtBlue
@JaySinWA:
I tried it as well and got the same result as you.
theturtlemoves
@Martin: It’s a guardrail, for sure. Copilot uses Bing to gather grounding information to pass into the context window on the LLM and then reasons over that, rather than the raw model data. And without saying anything that would get me fired, suffice to say I know a decent amount about how this particular product works….
strange visitor (from another planet)
@JaySinWA: ah. my bad.
i asked it who the president of the united states IS, copilot said it was biden and then it gave me some boilerplate about his record.
then yah, asked it about jan 6th, it gave a decent answer. i took screenshots for what it’s worth.
cain
@3Sice: That would put him in a disadvantage with the independents. Leaving the debate stage against your opponent. Crazy. Then at 3am, he’ll be on social media yelling that it was all rigged.
cain
@eversor: It’s not going to work out the way they think. Certainly not with the older crowd. You need emotional intelligence as well. You just cant get that with AI. AI also cannot handle conflict.
But sure, go for it. The companies that retain human front staff are going to win.
JaySinWA
@strange visitor (from another planet): I just tried it using
So qualifying it with US presidential election gets a clear result.
HumboldtBlue
I asked “what are some key policies of Joe Biden?” and got this
JaySinWA
@JaySinWA: So Copilot didn’t deal with ambiguity well, but it didn’t make an assumption about what country I was asking about.
theturtlemoves
LLMs work better when the prompt is very specific. Think of it as a very gifted and precocious child. It is very, very smart, but the more precise your instructions, the better the response you are going to get. And Copilot is using RAG (Retrieval Augmented Generation), pulling the data from Bing in an orchestration layer and then sending that, along with the original prompt, to the LLM for reasoning. Here’s a good explanation: techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/fasttrack-for-azure/grounding-llms/ba-p/3843857
Ruckus
@sdhays:
He might do well for some voters, until he speaks. Some voters may remember his dad and his uncle. He has the name, he really does not strike me as being anywhere near who his uncle, JFK or his dad, RFK were.
mrmoshpotato
Does Dump choke on KFC (Apologies, KFC) or McTrashass’s (go fuck yourselves!)?
Bruce K in ATH-GR
@JaySinWA: I checked Wikipedia, which listed national elections in 2020, and at least a dozen of them were categorized as “presidential”. And large-language models do seem to give wildly different results depending on how a question is worded.
hitchhiker
trump can answer questions calmly, but only if the interviewer uses “improv rules.” In improv, whatever is said must be followed by “Yes, and … “
The problem he’s going to have in the debate is that nobody is going to play improv with him. Nobody is going to listen to a bullshit answer and give him gentle agreement followed by another question.
Biden is going to call bullshit. And those questioners better goddamn do the same thing.
Question: Why do you repeat claims of voter fraud when none has been found?
trump: There was a lot of voter fraud! I won in 2020 by a lot! We’re not going to have that in November, blah blah blah.
Biden: He keeps saying there was fraud because he just can’t accept that voters rejected him. It’s irresponsible and immature, not to mention insulting to voters and election officials. Donald, voters rejected you. You lost. Have enough respect for the voters to accept their decisions. Losing isn’t fun, but when you lose you have to learn to live with it.
That kind of thing would drive trump bananas.
Jay
Snark heavy,
thefuckingnews.substack.com/p/biden-unveils-great-replacement-measures?utm_source=substack&publ…
K-Mo
Wait until an hour before the debate and then propose surprise drug tests.
Jay
@K-Mo: Current Vegas odds are at 121 that Chetolinni won’t show up and at 2751 that he will.
Bet $1 and win $121 if Herr Shitler shows up.
Bet $1 and win $2751 if Boaty McElectric Sharkface does show up.
mrmoshpotato
@K-Mo: LOL!
Surprise! You Kremlin-humping, coked-up, orange-faced (what drugs are in that shit?), fat, fascist, traitorous motherfucker!
mrmoshpotato
@Jay:
Who?
Frankensteinbeck
@piratedan:
That’s my best guess, because Vance is raising him the most money. Trump is desperate. Milking the whole Republican fundraising system is still getting him chump change compared to his looming fines. We may forget them because they haven’t hit yet, but he sure hasn’t.
@eversor:
Still doesn’t work unless the job you want it to do is also very, very specific. So specific you didn’t need a LLM. Attempts to make it do exactly what you’re asking, like take orders at a drive-in or just figure out the charge in a retail store, have led to secretly making a human do it while pretending it’s AI.
LLMs and its variations produce low quality, unreliable results. Ironically, this has indeed found a market: scammers. They don’t care if they’re producing garbage, they just want to flood the system with it.
Jay
@mrmoshpotato:
Jay
@Frankensteinbeck:
Yup.
eclare
@Jay:
Love “Boaty McElectric Sharkface”!
Jay
@Jay:
screwed it up
“Bet $1 and win $121 if Herr Shitler
doesdoesn’t show up”Frankensteinbeck
Since AI came up again, I’ve heard the electricity costs are huge, disproportionate to work produced. Who is absorbing those costs? The companies hosting the AI aren’t philanthropists. Google isn’t getting extra ad revenue from its summaries and is at risk of legal trouble from stuff like misidentifying deadly mushrooms. (This has already happened, but I know no deaths yet.). The buyers of the service are using it and then canceling when it screws up. It’s a fad, but unlike NFTs it’s an expensive fad. Who is paying? Are the engines likely to collapse because it’s not worth operating them?
Jay
@Frankensteinbeck:
AI is a tech “bubble”,
It’s basically .Com 4.0
Crypto 3.0
NFT’s. 2.0
There is a shit load of money out there in the hands of the 1% chasing illusions. Add in algo trading, and man, it is so easy to pull off penny stock scams these days.
BriX actually had to fake assay results. These days, you sell your $0.14 XYZ mining company stocks to your buddy for $0.28, and the computers and day traders are all over it. When he sells you them back for $0.56 the market goes nuts.
When you start off at $128 a share,……… doing the same thing,…….
mrmoshpotato
@Jay: Oh. Thank you. Bite Dump’s fat, orange, fascist ass!
trnc
@Melancholy Jaques:
Habs moved from full on sycophant to at least sometimes less than flattering coverage of DT 2 or 3 years ago. She cowrote an NYT article that describes the Project 2025 plans pretty accurately, and she pissed him off by saying he kept falling asleep during the trial last month. I doubt she’s inclined to help Biden and she may drift back into positive BS for DT, but you wouldn’t have found anything like those reports from her a few years ago.
Eyeroller
@Frankensteinbeck: ”AI” that does some specific task like cook (as speculated a ways above in this thread) is called a “robot” and they’ve been around in industry for ages. They still need human supervision but they carry out repetitive tasks extremely well and efficiently. Cooking would require motion to flip the burgers, put the fries in the basket, remove the basket from the oil, etc, so they’d have to have arms and other moveable parts. I doubt they’d work well in the tight quarters of a fast-food joint unless they are considerably miniaturized, but it’s a possibility.
As to generative AIs like LLMs, there is a whole field opening up called “prompt engineering” because the answer you get depends so much on the exact question you ask. An LLM is not smart, it does not have any ability to discern context or to ask for clarification, and it has no concept of “truth” or “facts.” It just constructs a statistical model of the answer to the question from what it has “learned.”
sdhays
How did he become President?
“The Lady of the Lake, clad in the purest shimmering samite…”
O. Felix Culpa
The MSM just can’t help themselves with their negative Biden framing. Biden is worried? Really? How about “The conditions Mr. Biden imposed reveal Trump’s shameful behavior in previous debates and the need to institute guardrails to try to prevent a repeat”? Why wasn’t that the framing? [rhetorical question]
lowtechcyclist
@Jay:
I presume there’s either some missing decimal points, or missing zeros and commas in there. Otherwise, I bet $20 on him not showing up, and $1 on him showing up, and come out a couple thousand dollars ahead either way. And I’m sure nobody in Vegas is offering that deal!
O. Felix Culpa
@sdhays: Required:
Evergreen.
Glidwrith
@Jackie: No drug tests. It gives in to the thugs framing. Just like Elizabeth Warren found out, you can’t win.
Another Scott
@Glidwrith: +1
They never argue in good faith. The response has to recognize that and use their tactics against them.
The perfect example was Obama’s “horses and bayonets” reply to Romney.
Cheers,
Scott.
agorabum
@Ken: I don’t like the “expectations” game that sets the bar for Trump so low that he gets points just for showing up. Trump likes to talk and complain; he’s going to show and he’s going to complain about Biden with a blizzard of bullshit.