Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

They think we are photo bombing their nice little lives.

It’s the corruption, stupid.

Text STOP to opt out of updates on war plans.

Historically it was a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.

Thanks to your bullshit, we are now under siege.

Damn right I heard that as a threat.

if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.

Impressively dumb. Congratulations.

There are no moderate republicans – only extremists and cowards.

Why is it so hard for them to condemn hate?

Fight them, without becoming them!

Give the craziest people you know everything they want and hope they don’t ask for more? Great plan.

Nancy smash is sick of your bullshit.

“Until such time as the world ends, we will act as though it intends to spin on.”

Republicans do not trust women.

Speaker Mike Johnson is a vile traitor to the House and the Constitution.

The line between political reporting and fan fiction continues to blur.

There are a lot more evil idiots than evil geniuses.

Jesus watching the most hateful people claiming to be his followers

🎶 Those boots were made for mockin’ 🎵

Wake up. Grow up. Get in the fight.

All hail the time of the bunny!

It’s pointless to bring up problems that can only be solved with a time machine.

This has so much WTF written all over it that it is hard to comprehend.

You are here: Home / Politics / Biden Administration in Action / Thursday Morning Open Thread: Summer Solstice

Thursday Morning Open Thread: Summer Solstice

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Multiple shells (companies), one pea, some assembly required…

… The proposed rule and guidance announced Monday includes plans to essentially stop “partnership basis shifting” — a process by which a business or person can move assets among a series of related parties to avoid paying taxes.

Biden administration officials said after evaluating the practice that there are no economic grounds for these transactions, with Deputy Treasury Secretary Wally Adeyemo calling it “really just a shell game.” The officials said the additional IRS funding provided through the 2022 Inflation Reduction Act had enabled increased oversight and greater awareness of the practice.

“These tax shelters allow wealthy taxpayers to avoid paying what they owe,” IRS commissioner Danny Werfel said…

Miles Johnson, a senior attorney adviser and partnership tax specialist at the Tax Law Center at NYU Law, said “these transactions effectively make income disappear from the tax system by creating depreciation deductions or other tax reductions that don’t reflect any true economic cost.”

He said the proposed rule and guidance shows that the IRS wants to stop these sorts of transactions “by eliminating their tax benefits and better identifying them to the IRS as without substance.”

Monday’s announcement is part of the IRS’s ongoing effort to zero in on high-wealth tax cheats who manipulate the tax code or don’t pay their taxes at all…

Reader Interactions

165Comments

  2. 2.

    catclub

    The IRS wants to end another major tax loophole for the wealthy and raise $50 billion in the process

    Is that a lot or a little? Well, first, that estimate is over ten years. So $5B/yr. Second, i bet it is biased to the last years rather than uniform.
    Third, I guess annual tax revenues are around $2Tr so $5B is 0.25% of the total.
    And they are calling it a major tax loophole.

  3. 3.

    geg6

    Gotta hand it to The Bulwark.  I never dreamed a bunch of Republicans would go so all in on Biden.  Never ever thought they’d be good allies, but they have been.  They and Jen Rubin have been stellar.

  4. 4.

    Baud

    @catclub:

    The size of a loophole should be compared to all loopholes, not all tax revenues.

    The IRS can only do so much. Only Congress can raise rates.

  5. 5.

    Baud

    @geg6:

    I added Meidas Touch to my YouTube feed, and I’m glad that they exist to spread our talking points. But man they churn out a lot of content.  It’s taking over my feed. May unsubscribe.

  6. 6.

    catclub

    Boeing Starliner is iffy? nervous-making?

    But the two veteran astronauts piloting this test flight are now in a tentative position — extending their stay aboard the space station for a second time while engineers on the ground scramble to learn more about issues that plagued the first leg of their journey.
    Spaceflight veterans Suni Williams and Butch Wilmore arrived at the space station aboard the Starliner on June 6. NASA initially projected their stay would last about a week.
    But troubles the vehicle experienced en route, including helium leaks and thrusters that abruptly stopped working, have raised questions about how the back half of the mission will play out.

  8. 8.

    Belafon

    Seems like “go woke” actually means “build a successful country that includes everyone”

    Well, yeah. That’s why Republicans hate it.

  9. 9.

    Ken

    The Bryn Celli Ddu post sadly reminds me that some activists sprayed orange paint on Stonehenge yesterday. They said they were pleased because it gained attention for climate change, apparently not seeing (or not caring) that it was “gee, climate-change activists are jerks”.

  11. 11.

    Baud

    @Ken:

    There’s definitely a “no such thing as bad publicity” view among some activists.  Hard for me to say where the line is.

    ETA: My understanding is that the “paint” washed off easily with water alone.

  12. 12.

    satby

    @Baud: It says in Wikipedia that the authorities used an air gun to blow the powdered paint off rather than water. It was made of pigment in cornstarch. Ultimately harmless, but what a stupid, disrespectful thing to do to a World Heritage site.

  13. 13.

    Lyrebird

    @Baud: I hope Biden names you Secretary of Feeling Good in his second term, AL.

    Seconded!

     

    And, less poetically, I will repeat:

     

    AL >>>> AI!

  15. 15.

    Baud

    @satby:

    I know, but outrageous conduct gets noticed. That’s the thinking.  If they had done permanent damage, I’d say throw the book at them.  Thankfully, that didn’t happen.

  16. 16.

    Betty Cracker

    Was just reading somewhere (Politico, maybe?) that incumbents Biden, Macron and Sunak are all going scorched earth on their opponents because positive messaging isn’t breaking through. I have no idea how accurate that analysis is, but it does make sense to make the U.S. election a referendum on Trump since he’s a babbling nutcase with a bad record to sell.

    Trump has a seemingly dwindling cult that will turn out. Dems need to turn out their coalition, and positive messaging can help on that front, which is critical.

    But the “Orange Man Bad” strategy might be the best way to reach the disgruntled and disengaged low-info voters who (sadly) decide our elections. So bring on the negativity?

  17. 17.

    Belafon

    @Baud: And yet I still have questions: Who are they? What exactly are they pushing? Do they do anything besides stunts? All I know is that they like getting themselves in the news.

    Imagine if MLK Jr had told people the ultimate form of protest is to steal the letters off of church signs.

  18. 18.

    Baud

    @Betty Cracker:

    positive messaging isn’t breaking through.

     

    Sounds right to me. People like to complain about stuff but don’t like to recognize when good things happen. We’re not a serious polity.

    At least here. Can’t speak about other countries.

  19. 19.

    lowtechcyclist

    Looking at that pic of Clinton with Biden, with Clinton looking good for his age, reminded me that even though Clinton became President 31 years ago, he’s still nearly 4 years younger than Biden.

  20. 20.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Baud: Yeah they are relentless.  And I only really listen to Legal AF, not the other 4-5 shows.  They also chop short clips from their hour-long shows and re-release them a few days later under headings that make you think they are something new, but if you listened to the full show, they’re not.  Smart marketing, but kind of annoying.  But I still think Legal AF is pretty useful (along with Jack, Sisters In Law and Talking Feds) if you just wanna keep up on legal stuff re: Trump’s trials.  None are perfect and all of them include lots of speculation, but they all seem fairly grounded in decent understanding (and explanation) of how our Justice System works.

  21. 21.

    p.a.

    So hot already (9am EDT) my neighbor’s little rat-dog, which, judging by its ferocity, considers me an equivalent danger to Thanos, didn’t emit a bark, growl, or snarl while I was in my yard.  Heh.  Fuck you Otis.

  22. 22.

    Baud

    @Belafon:

    Name is Just Stop Oil, I think. They do things like this in Europe. I don’t know if they do anything except these sorts of protests.

  24. 24.

    Ken

    @Baud: If they had done permanent damage, I’d say throw the book at them.

    Those stones haven’t tasted blood for millennia.

  25. 25.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Betty Cracker: Different approaches probably work for different voters so it probably makes sense to do both.  Biden is legit a great President and Trump was/would be a terrible one.  Trump has a fairly unique ability to repulse people so the negative approach may work more for beating him than most candidates.

  26. 26.

    Baud

    @Baud:

    I’ll hand it to Republican voters.  They’ll recognize it when their politicians do things they like.  They’ll even make up positive stuff if they have to.

  27. 27.

    Kay

    I’m relieved Biden’s polliing is better. I think it’s accurate, or, I should say, I have no reason to think it’s wrong. My bet was he would go up when people started to pay attention, so hopefully this is the start of a trend. I (still) think he’s going to win but he will need the entire D coalition.

  28. 28.

    geg6

    @Baud:

    Yeah, they were harassing Taylor Swift’s flight crew and plane.  I guess they expect her to walk to every European venue.

  34. 34.

    zhena gogolia

    @Baud: Yes! I was just all depressed about a NYT article about how all the crypto guys are trying to get Trump back in. AL’s post was a shot in the arm.

  35. 35.

    TBone

    When I read that first xit, my brain automatically filled in “of Commerce” after the word “chamber” and I thought GOOD, THEY COULD USE MORE SUNLIGHT.

  36. 36.

    H.E.Wolf

    For anyone who worries that 5 billion dollars per year in IRS revenue is some kind of chump change, it might be heartening to see 1 billion in visual form.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSOVBiEotaw
    I watched with the audio off, the better to focus on the visual scale of 1 million compared to 1 billion….​

  37. 37.

    Baud

    @zhena gogolia:

    Lot of bad actors in industry want to get Trump back in. Or any Republican. It’s part and parcel of being a Dem that industry will oppose you.

  38. 38.

    Leto

    @Ken: @Baud:

    Stonehenge covered in powder paint by Just Stop Oil

    Mark Verbinnen, councillor for Amesbury East and Bulford, arrived at the site a few minutes after the incident. He said many members of staff at the site were left “shaken”, particularly one who attempted to tackle a protester.

    Mike Pitts, archaeologist and author of How to Build Stonehenge, said the impact of the action was “potentially quite concerning”. He said: “The monument has been fenced off for decades and the megaliths’ surfaces are protected.

    “They are sensitive and they are completely covered in prehistoric markings which remain to be fully studied and any surface damage to the stones is hugely concerning.

    “A rich garden of life has grown on the megaliths, an exceptional lichen garden has grown. So it’s potentially quite concerning.” The orange powder was removed from the stones using blown air, which has helped preserve the rare lichen on the surface of the stones, Mr Merriman confirmed.

    A spokesman for Wiltshire Police said: “We responded to a report that orange paint had been sprayed on some of the stones by two suspects. “Our enquiries are ongoing and we are working closely with English Heritage.”

  40. 40.

    TBone

    @Betty Cracker: 👍 digging in the dirt, fighting fire with fire.  We can’t keep “going high when they go low” and expecting to just fly over all the nonsense.  They’re cut over the eye right now (as Digby urged yesterday): it’s time to work the eye.

    🥊or bare knuckles, this ain’t a cotillion.

  41. 41.

    Kay

    NYPD are so flush with cash under Adams they take joy rides with their fleet of helicopters. You just know they’re going to find out they’re ferrying bigwigs around:

    The increase in costs has come even as Adams has pushed to cut back city spending overall. If the unit returned to its previous spending levels, there would be enough left over to cover the mayor’s proposed cuts to at-risk youth recreational programming and a mental health response program.

    Most bloated police agency funding in the country – unless you count Homeland Security.

  42. 42.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    No economic grounds for these transactions? How dare you! That’s the entire business model for the Trump Organization! What do you expect them to do for revenue now, provide actual products or services?

  43. 43.

    Soprano2

    The fact that Joe Biden is still standing strong after the personal losses he’s been through proves he’s strong. People who think he’s weak have no idea what he’s been through in his life.

  45. 45.

    Betty Cracker

    @Leto: Maybe they should deface mega-yachts or some other symbol of fossil fuel-adjacent power instead. And use real paint! 🤔

  47. 47.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: He will need all of them because he has to fight against all of the press that desperately wants TCFG back. They get more clicks and have more fun when he’s president, and that’s what they really care about.

  50. 50.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Baud:

    outrageous conduct gets noticed. That’s the thinking.

    Big Oil doesn’t give even the slightest shit about someone painting Stonehenge.  All they’re doing is making the average person think environmental activists are crazies.

    I know, I know, you are only explaining the thinking.  But it’s dumb thinking.

    @Baud:

    There a big Internet meme about her flying excessively. I don’t know how justified it is.

    I saw a video tracking her flights over the year, and I found it revelatory, but not in the way they intended.  It never occurred to me before that being a major music star is the most travel-intensive job in the world.  You’re constantly going to performances all over everywhere, plus you’re bringing a lot of stuff and people along.  Not that I have any pity for her awesome lifestyle, but damn, how often does that woman even get to go home?

  52. 52.

    Leto

    @Betty Cracker: right? Instead they keep trying to deface priceless works of art, or humanities most invaluable objects… and expecting us to to not think of them as assholes. I absolutely understand your mission statement, but ffs do things like you suggest: team up with team Orca and fuck up some yachts. People like that, and will actively cheer you on. Paint a big dick on the side of Bezos private plane. But stop trying to fuck up humanities treasures. We’ll want those post climate crisis.

  53. 53.

    Kay

    Interesting.

    A large-scale survey I conducted of worker organizers for my forthcoming book on worker-to-worker organizing can help shed light on this contentious debate. With the help of a research assistant, I reached out to every union drive that went public in 2022 — resulting in over 500 responses from worker leaders to my anonymous survey asking about their union drives and personal backgrounds.

    One of the more remarkable findings from this research was the extent to which Black Lives Matter protests fed into today’s labor uptick. My survey asked each respondent to list which, if any, external social movements had played a “major role” in inspiring them to unionize their workplace. What I found was that BLM was the (non-union) movement influence that was most widely cited by those workers who initiated union drives in 2022.

    So two things happened – people who were not “political” or organizers came up through BLM and then organized their workplaces OR/AND minority groups recognized that workplace fairness includes racial issues.
    You just never know what will come out of a protest movement – they ripple.

  54. 54.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @Baud:

    I hope Biden names you Secretary of Feeling Good in his second term, AL.

    And names Betty Cracker his Secretary of Kicking Ass and Taking Names (with eloquence).

  56. 56.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Frankensteinbeck: When was the last time she saw Travis? Can their love survive??? Oh, the pathos!

    On the more serious side, I could never do it. Any trip longer than 2 weeks is too long for me.

  58. 58.

    Kay

    @Soprano2:

    Money people want Trump back in. Biden is probably the most progressive President in US history on economic issues – just anywhere you look, labor, taxes, antitrust, education. He’s a real threat to entrenched monied interests.

    Media just follow money people. They’re not really the root opposition. They’re rigidly conventional, narrow people who follow (business) leaders.

  59. 59.

    Baud

    @Kay:

    True. I wish people understood that politics is the same way.  You may not get everything you want right away by voting blue, but you’re creating ripples that will lead to a better future down the line.

  62. 62.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Baud: ​
     

    People like to complain about stuff but don’t like to recognize when good things happen. We’re not a serious polity.

    True, but in the past, when the economy’s been this good for this long, it sinks in with people that things are going well.

    To me, it seems clear that the difference this time has been the MSM doing their best to highlight the few things that have been less than optimal: the post-Covid inflation (which the U.S. has had the least problem with of any advanced industrial nation), housing costs, and (of course) portraying the inability of businesses to find workers as a negative rather than a positive. Full employment is GOOD, dammit!!

  63. 63.

    Baud

    @lowtechcyclist:

    I think when the economy is going well, people let their bigot streak fly.  It’s why Clinton and Obama’s economic successes didn’t have coattails at the end of their terms.

  64. 64.

    cmorenc

    IIRC, the IRS is taking a hard look at Trump double-counting the losses on some Chicago building project by claiming them for entity #1 and then transferring the losing asset to entity #2 and claiming it again.  A shell game, except the “deduction” pea appears under more than one shell.

  65. 65.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    I know this is a difference of opinion, but you’re talking about voting. Organizing around an issue is a different animal – it’s a different level of commitment. It won’t be for everyone, but it is essential, especially because liberals don’t have the kind of rigid adherence to groups that fundamentalist religions have on the Right.

    You have to learn it somewhere. Organizers don’t just spring from the earth. They’re the 5% in front.

  66. 66.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @Betty Cracker:

    So bring on the negativity?

    Is it really negativity to say that Biden is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored? That he’s re-crushing all the garbage ideas and truly shitty activities that became once again ascendant with the GOP’s turn towards voodoo economics and other retrograde policies?

  68. 68.

    Leto

    @Ken: no, there was a collective vote taken by artists and art history majors, and that portrait was declared a legal target. So all good on that front. In fact, the artist who painted it was required to prove that they hadn’t simply copied the portrait out of Ghostbusters 2 when making that one. Since they failed to do that, well here we are.

  69. 69.

    Baud

    @Kay:

    I didn’t mean to say they were the same in all respects. But I think both have ripple effects that are unforseen and unpredictable, and you lose that if you forgo the process because you don’t see the direct effects right away.

  72. 72.

    artem1s

    High-end business partnerships like hedge funds and wealthy individuals such as real estate investors have inappropriately used labyrinthine structures to shield tens of billions of dollars from taxation,
    Good. These huge real estate management companies have been playing Enron style bookkeeping with their portfolios for decades. Problem is all the banks who have been lending these Ponzi schemes money are going to start panicking when the buyers who have hundreds/thousands of properties in their portfolios start to default on their loans. That’s gonna be a problem come April next year but a easier problem to solve than TCFG in the WH.

  74. 74.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    The other day I mentioned I was reading a YA book set in late 2020 and that the pandemic and presidential election were constant themes. I just looked at reviews on Amazon and Goodreads to see if the author was getting hate mail for her treatment of Trump. At least half the reviews objected to the mere presence of politics and, to a lesser degree, the pandemic. They didn’t say they objected to the treatment of Trump, though they may have. What they said was they didn’t want to think about the pandemic or Trump at all

    ETA: In case it isn’t clear, I assume attitude is common and is affecting how much voters are willing to learn for the current election

  76. 76.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    It’s funny because Starbucks and Amazon knew this, so tried to shut down BLM speech in their stores. They knew if their employees were rallying around a cause that cause could include/be exended to unionization. It’s all “solidarity”.  It’s all organizing. Same basic idea. The consultants they hired saw BLM as a threat before either place had any union activity.

    I think it’s why they have never been able to completely kill labor unions. They’re built around a fundamental human need for joining with other people. No bullshit, flimsy “worker empowerment” bullshit is ever going to replace that.

  77. 77.

    Kay

    @TBone:

    Chris Smalls was really overt with it at the time. His warehouse was majority AA and Latino and he sneered that Amazon refers to low level employees as “pickers” – obvious tie-back to slavery.

  79. 79.

    Baud

    @Kay:

    They’re also a little bit afraid of what would come after if unions were killed.

    Better to manage people you depend on than to go to war with them.

  80. 80.

    satby

    @artem1s: I root for the destruction of the predatory real estate investors who scoop up cheap properties, barely get them up to code, and then rent them out at exorbitant rates to people. Then as the properties continue to deteriorate (and the tenants less reliable), cut their losses and leave the properties abandoned for the municipality to take over. I hope they close all the loopholes allowing those city destroying entities to exist. Edit: cleaned up my mess of tenses.

  81. 81.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Baud: ​
     

    They would still call him weak if they knew. It’s part of their alpha male approach to everything.

    Maybe it’s that I grew up in the era of John Wayne as the prototypical strong male, but it still boggles my mind that all of Trump’s whining and crybabying and repeatedly playing the victim card is consistent with their notion of being an alpha male.

  83. 83.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Soprano2:

    The [media] get more clicks and have more fun when he’s president, and that’s what they really care about.

    That was last time.  Next time, if there is one? Maybe yes, maybe no. They might find themselves in more of a pickle.

  84. 84.

    Leto

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: all art is political, as we well know. As a YA book, I’m sure it only went so far but I’m glad anti-fascist messages are being presented to such a young group. Get that message out early. Trying to protect children from every type of bad idea/event/thing isn’t good, and is part of our current problems.

    If they want a more sophisticated take on our current situation, they need to read Atwood’s Oryx and Crake Madaddam Trilogy. Leaves out the fascist shitstain leader, but every other calamity we’re facing is right there.

  85. 85.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    Not that I have any pity for her awesome lifestyle, but damn, how often does that woman even get to go home?

    I have a mansion, forget the price / ain’t never been there, they tell me it’s nice

  86. 86.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @lowtechcyclist: Reminds me of a conversion I had many years ago with my BIL, under W. He knew I detested W and that I worked in the defense industry and was generally supportive of active duty military.

    ”So you support the military, you just don’t support a strong leader.”

    It still boggles me 20 years later that anyone looked at W and thought “strong, manly leader.”

  87. 87.

    Another Scott

    @lowtechcyclist: Dean Baker points out that inflation – excluding housing – has been at the Fed’s target for a year.

    The housing market has been messed up for a while, and unfortunately that is actually a market that the Fed directly affects with interest rates – so interest rates likely won’t come down much until housing inflation breaks. Biden has proposed good policies to increase affordable housing, but it takes time (and much more is needed in many areas, but things like local zoning are a big constraint). Here’s hoping he also continues to go after price fixing and all the rest of the predatory financial stuff.

    [eta] Baker argues that housing inflation falls are built in and we’ll be seeing lower headline numbers soon.  Fingers crossed.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  89. 89.

    frosty

    @OzarkHillbilly: ​Three weeks?  Today we’re three weeks in to a three-month road trip. The last one we did was four and we both agreed three was probably the comfortable maximum.

    But there was still more stuff to see!

  90. 90.

    MomSense

    @Baud:

    Biden didn’t do himself any favors by having so many cosmetic procedures. Too much Botox and too severe a face lift gives him that blank look.

  92. 92.

    Melancholy Jaques

    @Kay:

    My bet was he would go up when people started to pay attention, so hopefully this is the start of a trend.

    I think it’s more this than Trump dropping, but I also hope that happens as well. At some point a small but decisive percentage of white people have to come out of their post-COVID zombie brain phase.

  94. 94.

    marklar

    @lowtechcyclist: “Maybe it’s that I grew up in the era of John Wayne as the prototypical strong male, but it still boggles my mind that all of Trump’s whining and crybabying and repeatedly playing the victim card is consistent with their notion of being an alpha male.”

    Perhaps it’s projection. Since they are losers themselves, and don’t want to think of themselves as pathetic, they mentally massage Trump’s reaction as a sign of strength, so they too can be “strong alphas” when they whine and pout about every perceived slight that they experience. The more Trump snivels, the more permission they have to do the same as a way of expressing their desired dominance.

  97. 97.

    UncleEbeneezer

    I saw a Tweet this morning that said (paraphrase): A good rule of thumb for protests: don’t act exactly like your enemies/bad actors would if they were imitating to discredit you.

  98. 98.

    Eyeroller

    @lowtechcyclist: There also seems to be some lingering hangover of anger from the pandemic that one can see in surveys from around at least the developed world.  Basically, it appears that our comfortable lives were disrupted and we’re still mad about it. Biden is actually one of the least unpopular leaders.  The woman PM of Italy is most popular (because it’s Italy, it seems, and she’s fairly new) and even she is underwater.

  100. 100.

    catclub

    @Baud: They’ll even make up positive stuff if they have to.

     

    George W Bush ‘kept us safe’.  If you ignore the giant mulligan.

  102. 102.

    BR

    @Kay: ​
    I remember being really impressed with Smalls. He seems to be a natural at organizing. I should look up what he’s been doing lately.

  103. 103.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    True. I took a labor law course in law school and the Depression-era labor rules were intended to rein in unions, not encourage them.

    Campaigns for candidates aren’t really good models for issue organizing because they’re “there and then gone” and in campaigns for candidates there is always a group who are there just for that specific person, not for any kind of broader or longer term idea. Too, if you’re voting for Biden because you hate Trump you have a very narrow short term goal. We won’t keep those people. They’ll go to the next candidate they love/hate. I don’t think political campaigns are a useful model for anything long term. They’re marketing, which is different than organizing. It’s essentially a commercial model, not a solidarity model.

    You’ll only learn that longer term kind of thinking in an issue campaign. That’s WHY they ripple.

  104. 104.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Baud: It would not surprise me at all.

    OT: Someone threw a shoe on Modi’s motorcade in his constituency of Varanasi (arguably one of the holiest sites if not the holiest site for Hindus

    I don’t know if it was his car. The balloon has lost a lot of air.

  105. 105.

    Ken

    @artem1s: These huge real estate management companies have been playing Enron style bookkeeping with their portfolios for decades.

    From Trading Places: “You know the rules of the exchange, Mr. Duke — all accounts to be settled at the end of the day’s trading.”

    I sometimes wonder what would happen if that were applied more widely, rather than waiting for a financial crisis to reveal who’s been swimming naked (as Warren Buffett put it).

  106. 106.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Baud:

    I think when the economy is going well, people let their bigot streak fly. It’s why Clinton and Obama’s economic successes didn’t have coattails at the end of their terms.

    We’re talking two very different things there.  Obama’s 2009 stimulus was way too small, and it took forever for the economy to recover; even in 2016, the unemployment rate was hovering around 5% in the summer and fall.  That’s decent but not great, especially when it took seven years to finally get there: of course there was no credit to the Dems for the economic boom, because it wasn’t a boom.  (Trump finally got the payoff for the Obama slow recovery; unemployment got into the 3’s during his term.)

    Clinton, OTOH: by 2000, the economy had been doing well enough for long enough that the press’ line was that anyone could manage this economy.  And of course they were nitpicking every little thing about Al Gore while giving Shrub a free ride.  (One senses a pattern here.)

  107. 107.

    Kay

    @BR:

    IMO, no one is a natural at organizing – it’s learned. Amazon is joining with the Teamsters for that very reason – they need organizational discipline and know how and they also need numbers. The Teamsters are considered the most aggressive of the big unions, although now that the UAW is revitalized that may change.

  108. 108.

    Baud

    @lowtechcyclist:

    Well, I know the economy was great in 2016 because it became instantly great the minute Trump won.

    We can critique Obama’s recovery all we want, but there was a recovery thanks to him and people gas lit it just like they’re gaslighting Biden.

  109. 109.

    Baud

    @Kay:

    I’m not speaking of specific campaigns. I’m talking about the positive effect of liberal minded people consistently voting.

  111. 111.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Ken: ​
     

    Nonsense. It’s clearly Han Solo in carbonite.

    One of my favorite t-shirts shows Indiana Jones, with his torch in the depths of some cave or temple, discovering Han in carbonite.

  112. 112.

    Kay

    @BR:

    Here’s the Amazon/Teamsters alliance. 

    The Amazon union stalled. They weren’t growing. I think part of the reason they weren’t growing is because Amazon greatly increased workplace protections and benefits as a result of the threat of a union. Unions always have a “free rider” problem. Workers lean on unionization without joining one or paying dues.

    You see it with charter schools and public schools. Charter schools have to pay comparable wages to public schools to compete for staff. The only reason public schools pay the wages they do is because they have strong unions. So charter employees benefit from the unions they don’t belong to. It happens in all kinds of industries. Toyota has to pay a base wage because of the UAW. If unions dropped out the wage floor on a lot of workers would drop.

  114. 114.

    WereBear

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    At least half the reviews objected to the mere presence of politics and, to a lesser degree, the pandemic. They didn’t say they objected to the treatment of Trump, though they may have. What they said was they didn’t want to think about the pandemic or Trump at all

    ETA: In case it isn’t clear, I assume attitude is common and is affecting how much voters are willing to learn for the current election.

    You have answered one of my burning questions! I am telling a cat tale in my latest book, but it’s how we adopted the kittens Bud Abbott and Lou Costello in the fall of 2019.

    It’s about them growing up in a multiple cat world as a way of illustrating my Cat Civilization How Tos. Since basics are in my first cat book, The Way of Cats. This one is for fun.

    How can I not talk about hte Pandemic? Or maybe it is all from the cat’s point of view… she mused.

    Jackals, please help! Should I go Watership Down?

  115. 115.

    BR

    @Kay: ​
    Agreed. I guess by natural I mean that he had other experiences in his life that prepared him to do what he did. He might have in effect been an organizer in some other context without realizing it and then applied those skills to the union.

    One thing that strikes me from hearing him speak is that he had an empathy that really made him seem above reproach. It didn’t seem like he was doing this for vanity or wealth.

  116. 116.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    Right, but you’re talking about some kind of like minded solidarity and long term thinking from 80 million people. IMO it just doesn’t work like that. It’s a wholly different field.

    I don’t think Republicans have it either. They have TONS of infighting. They all think their pols are weak.

  118. 118.

    Kay

    @BR:

    I thought he was amazing. It must be absolutely bizzare to be thrust into that kind of attention, to go from “outspoken warehouse worker” to “national spokesperson for the labor movement” in a month.

    But now they have to do the boring work of unions :)

  119. 119.

    Eyeroller

    @schrodingers_cat:We are getting better; college-educated whites used to be one of the most reliable R voting blocs and now they are moving to D. But in the end it’s likely to end up being generational.

  121. 121.

    Baud

    @Kay:

    What I said initially is that I wish people understood that elections have ripple effects.  What they do with that appreciation is up to them.  But given how often we deal with people who look narrowly at specific promises made in specific elections, I think it’s in our interest to make people more aware of the dynamics.

  123. 123.

    Jeffg166

    When I was young the summer solstice was a downer for me because it meant winter was coming. Now it makes me happy because winter is coming. I hate hot humid weather.

  124. 124.

    Kay

    I went to a Sherrod event and they need one in five Trump 2020 voters to win. They may get them – Sherrod is polling quite well against the ridiculous phony Trump put in.

    But if BIDEN got one in five Trump 2020 voters, well, imagine that. Landslide.

  125. 125.

    Melancholy Jaques

    @Baud:

    We can critique Obama’s recovery all we want, but there was a recovery thanks to him and people gas lit it just like they’re gaslighting Biden.

    Obama’s stimulus was too small because the Blue Dogs wouldn’t support a larger one.

    Biden’s was big enough that it prevented a collapse, so people do not feel that a collapse was a danger.

  126. 126.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Eyeroller: That’s progress. The in-group that benefits from the status quo votes to uphold it. True here and true in India too. Its the women who confound me because the status quo doesn’t benefit women unless you are willing to play the second fiddle. Which many women have been conditioned to do.

  129. 129.

    UncleEbeneezer

    The whole AIPAC Secretly Controls Our Govt narrative is looking more and more Anti-Semitic to me since it is eerily similar to noxious Jewish Conspiracy theories that have been around from times immemorial, as well as implying that Jewish-Americans can’t rationally vote for US interests because they are just so slavishly, loyal to Israel.  Also, AIPAC is not even in the top 20 when it comes to lobbying $ in our political sphere so singling out AIPAC just feels kinda gross.  It’s really sad that this stuff gets so much traction on our side and that so few people are willing to call it out.  There’s a very long history of this conspiracy theory and dual-loyalty fear mongering against Jews and the Left does ourselves no favors when we perpetuate it.

  130. 130.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Baud: ​

    We can critique Obama’s recovery all we want, but there was a recovery thanks to him and people gas lit it just like they’re gaslighting Biden.

    Look, we’re discussing the effect of the economy on the 2016 election. Yes, there was a recovery thanks to him, but unemployment was still 5.0% in September 2016, which was finally back to okay after 7 years, but hardly booming. There was no need to gaslight it; it was what it was.
    Under Biden, unemployment was down to 3.9% by November 2021. That took gaslighting.

    Well, I know the economy was great in 2016 because it became instantly great the minute Trump won.

    It pretty much did. Unemployment was 4.4% by March 2017, and went down from there for the next 35 months.​

  131. 131.

    Soprano2

    @lowtechcyclist: To me, it seems clear that the difference this time has been the MSM doing their best to highlight the few things that have been less than optimal

    I agree that this is part of it (thanks different NPR programs for talking about inflation almost every single day for a year!). I also think it hurts that prices went up relatively fast, so it’s not hard for people to remember what things cost in 2019 compared to what they cost today (when people think about 4 years ago, I believe they think about 2019; they’ve erased 2020 from their minds). That’s one reason people are so unhappy, they got used to prices only going up 1-2% every year, which was easy to absorb, as opposed to going up 4-5% a year, which is a lot harder to cope with when it happens a couple of years in a row, plus some big things like rent and car prices went up a lot more than that. The thing is, voting for TCFG is not going to magically bring back 2019 prices, which is what I think a significant number of people believe will happen.

  132. 132.

    Baud

    @lowtechcyclist:

    5% is historically good. I recognized Trump inherited good times, but it’s gaslighting to ignore what Obama inherited and what he achieved.  Otherwise, we should give up the ghost and just concede the economy to Republicans.

  133. 133.

    Eyeroller

    @Soprano2:Prices barely went up even 1-2% a year. We had over a decade of essentially zero inflation, which is abnormal, but people got used to it. It seems to have been a lingering aftereffect of the 2008 Great Recession.

  135. 135.

    Baud

    @Baud:

    Anyway, I hold to my view that the economy was positive enough to let the bigots feel free to vote their bigotry, and that’s the challenge we face this year too.

  136. 136.

    Soprano2

    @satby: The house next door seems to be owned by one of those. It’s a little bit better than the married owners who got a divorce and didn’t resolve the ownership of the property, which meant it was basically abandoned for about a decade.

  137. 137.

    Soprano2

    @lowtechcyclist: I agree, but I think they believe it won’t actually happen, just like they act like he won’t really do all these things he bloviates about at his rallies. They’re way too complacent about it.

  140. 140.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Baud: We will also see whether there are enough #allwhitewomen to make a difference to the electoral outcome. I am keeping my fingers crossed. Special elections have been going our way.

  144. 144.

    Kay

    @cain:

    IMO, Trump believes he’s the front runner so doesn’t need a debate. A debate can only harm the front runner. That would be really conventional politics – nothing outrageous.

    I just think he’s BARELY the front runner and (obviously) I don’t think he’ll hold the lead so I think it’s dumb to skip the debate. He’s believing his own (and media’s) bullshit. They’re overconfident.

  145. 145.

    Soprano2

    @Eyeroller: Yes, and borrowing rates were abnormally low for a long time too. People now are acting like 5% on a home loan is a major problem, when that’s actually normal. What wasn’t normal was home loans at less than 3%.

  146. 146.

    Kay

    @cain:

    The conventional wisdom right now is Trump will win – that’s why we’re seeing all the money people flocking to him and the media glomming on – they all think they should get on the right side of power.

    I just think they called it way too soon and they’re all wrong. Money people are wrong a lot – look how many stupid fads they follow, hell, just look at the 2009 crash. They may be dumber than the average swing voter.

  147. 147.

    Citizen Alan

    @UncleEbeneezer:  I think a big part of the hostility towards AIPAC is that they’ve chosen a side in American politics and it ain’t ours. They have chosen institutionally to support Republicans and oppose Democrats because they think (correctly) that Republicans are more likely to support Israel unconditionally up to and including outright ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians. And they don’t care what other policies an ascendent GOP will impose on America and the World so long as the Netanyahu faction in Israel gets that unconditional support. IMO, AIPAC has declared it self to be a Republican-leaning organization, and I have no problem treating it with the disdain I would show the Heritage Foundation and Moms for Liberty.

  148. 148.

    Manyakitty

    @Ken: I really hate it when they pull those destructive stunts. Just makes everyone mad at them and kills their message.

  150. 150.

    RaflW

    @Ken: @Manyakitty: Man. A tactic without a shred of strategy.

    I’m ok with minor damage to public infrastructure to make some sort of point. Spray paint is irritating but hardly horrible if applied to, say, the Tory Party offices in Wapping Over Beckstone.

    But there’s no discernible connection between Stonehenge and climate justice. WTF.

  151. 151.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Its the women who confound me because the status quo doesn’t benefit women unless you are willing to play the second fiddle. Which many women have been conditioned to do.

    Therein lies your answer. Married white women–especially those without college educations–are the most likely to support the white patriarchy. It appears to serve them, even if we think it doesn’t. Like their men, I think it might be a mistake to credit them with too much of a thought process. The conditioning did its job.

  153. 153.

    Emily68

    Re: Bryn Celli Ddu—I lived in an apartment in the Fremont neighborhood in Seattle for a few years. It was between 44th and 45th. I had a good view from the kitchen window of the Safeco Building in the U District.

    Imagine surprise on the equinox when the sun rose directly over the Safeco Building and I discovered I was living in a branch office of Stonehenge.

  154. 154.

    RaflW

    @O. Felix Culpa: New Minnesota state poll just dropped, sponsored by a local TV station. “There also continues to be a huge gender gap between the two parties. Democrats lead by 20 points among females, 56% to 36%, while Republicans lead by 14 among men, 53% to 39%.”

    Nevermind why KSTP mixes ‘females’ with ‘men’ (does anyone but incels say females when speaking? Maybe in medical settings, but c’mon). Digression ends.

    Yes, it’s disappointing that even 36% of women support the patriarchy, but they aren’t the path for Republican power in MN at least.

  160. 160.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Manyakitty: There are important state elections coming up in 4 months in two states. It is barely holding on to a majority (by means fair and foul) in these 2 states. Indian political landscape is much more dynamic compared to ours. We may not need to wait for the next general election.

  161. 161.

    strange visitor (from another planet)

    @UncleEbeneezer:  oh, you mean, “don’t go on the subway with a masked mob and demand that all the jews raise their hands and get out”?!?!

    who woulda thunk it.

  164. 164.

    VFX Lurker

    @schrodingers_cat: That’s progress. The in-group that benefits from the status quo votes to uphold it. True here and true in India too. Its the women who confound me because the status quo doesn’t benefit women unless you are willing to play the second fiddle. Which many women have been conditioned to do.

    Not sure what breaks that conditioning. I still remember a 2022 Facebook conversation where a GenX niece in Michigan plead with her aunt in Florida for the life of the niece’s daughter. The GenX niece outlined all of the ways a wanted pregnancy might go wrong, and how her daughter may some day need access to a safe abortion.

    The older anti-abortion aunt didn’t want to have that discussion. She kept telling her GenX niece to stay quiet about such things.

    All three women (aunt, niece, niece’s daughter) were white.

  165. 165.

    schrodingers_cat

    @VFX Lurker: For some its empathy. For some the bad stuff has to happen to someone close to them or themselves. For some nothing.

    What I do with RW supporting loved ones in my life  is work on them where I agree with them and subtly show them how their votes don’t reflect their purported values. I have actually had more luck with men than women using this approach. But I am hopeful. But I do question them and try to take the conversation beyond politics to principles. Obviously this approach will only work those you are close to not on strangers.

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