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You are here: Home / Politics / Biden Administration in Action / Nothing Changes, Until It Does (Open Thread)

Nothing Changes, Until It Does (Open Thread)

by | 73 Comments

This post is in: , ,

This is the Financial Times, so I can’t get to the whole article, but what I can see is very good news.

US to redirect Patriot air defence orders to Ukraine

Interceptor missiles destined for other countries will be diverted to help Kyiv protect cities and critical infrastructure.

Update:  (Washington Post)  GIFT LINK  (thanks Mr. Bemused Senior!)

The White House characterized the shift as a “difficult but necessary decision” as Ukraine’s military and civilian infrastructure face unrelenting Russian bombardment.

The United States will suspend the planned export of hundreds of air defense munitions to its allies and partners and redirect them to Ukraine, the White House said Thursday, as Russia continues its assault on the country’s power grid and other vital infrastructure.

Speaking to reporters, National Security Council spokesman John Kirby characterized the decision as “difficult but necessary,” and said it would affect deliveries of Patriot and NASAMS interceptor missiles, principally. Ukraine, he said, faces a “desperate” need.

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Who knew 10 years ago that VoteVets would be one of our strongest allies?

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Open thread.

Reader Interactions

73Comments

  1. 1.

    WaterGirl

    PSA: If you make a donation to NC today, I will checking this thread to be sure donations count toward the match.  We have a new angel match, so everything resets, and donations are matched 4x.

  2. 2.

    WaterGirl

    Call me an optimist, but I doubt that Mark Kelly is not the only senator who will change his tune on the filibuster.  It’s now or never if we want to have a functional Senate again, and we definitely do!

  4. 4.

    Eolirin

    @WaterGirl: I’m not sure he’s changing his tune though, those remarks sound a lot like the specific carve outs he’s already been supporting rather than blanket abolishment.

    The thing that’ll make a big difference if we can hold the Senate, and Montana is going to be the heaviest of lifts if we can’t beat Rick Scott, so very large if, is that there won’t be a Sinema or Manchin as part of our 50 vote majority. Angus King is also pro carve outs on specific topics. So I think we’d have the fifty votes we need.

  5. 5.

    Dadadadadadada

    @WaterGirl: Call ME an optimist, but I’ve been thinking for a few months now that every day of the campaign is going to be TCFG’s last best day. His campaign is badly organized, misfocused, and undisciplined, and too much of the money going into it will be stolen.

  6. 6.

    Eolirin

    @BlueGuitarist: We could have already had all three of these things and would be in a very good position to hold the Senate, and probably wouldn’t have lost the house in the first place, if Manchin and Sinema didn’t fucking suck.

    We are always losing by inches, even when we win. It’s maddening.

  7. 7.

    Eolirin

    @Dadadadadadada: What will concern me, up until election day, is Church driven GOTV’s ability to compensate for those lacks.

    Which should really be putting their tax exempt status into far more question than it does.

  8. 8.

    thruppence

    More air defense for Ukraine! Better late than never, but they needed it a long time ago

  10. 10.

    Baud

    @WaterGirl:

    We can’t go on with the Supreme 6 saying Congress must do everything and a Senate that has a supermajority rule that prevents Congress from doing anything.

  12. 12.

    WaterGirl

    @Baud:

    We can’t go on with the Supreme 6 saying Congress must do everything and a Senate that has a supermajority rule that prevents Congress from doing anything.

    Truth.

    That exact situation is part of why many of us feel every day like our heads are going to explode.

  13. 13.

    Eolirin

    @Baud: They’ll change tactics the second congress is able to do things. We’ll need to get the composition of the courts fixed to really stop this bullshit.

  14. 14.

    Eolirin

    @WaterGirl: I hope we start providing very large numbers of cruise missiles and an okay to use them on targets inside Russian territory next. Air defense is great, shutting down Russia’s ability to launch missile and glide bomb strikes in the first place would be even better.

  16. 16.

    cain

    @Baud:

    it’s time to destroy these old relics – the new politics that the GOP has started has destroyed everything. It’s primarily used by them to stop things. We have spent way too much trying to preserve a system that no longer works for the people. FRY IT WITH FIRE!

  18. 18.

    Miss Bianca

    Open thread?

    So, I just finished Jane Smiley’s latest novel, Lucky, and…I don’t know what to think. At first I was thinking, “oh wow, my musician friends – particularly my St Louis musician friends – are going to get a kick out of this!” because of all the name-dropping of musicians and St Louis neighborhoods.

    (mild spoiler alerts…)

     

     

     

    But after a while, the meandering tale of a life not really examined began to wear on me. (And the – to me, anyway – completely unrealistic howler of an obscure folk musician in the 60s making hundreds of thousands in royalties on a few obscure songs, that don’t even have the rationale that they were covered by anyone more famous, made me wonder if Smiley actually knows anything about the music biz – let’s just say it took me out of the story somewhat.)

    Then there are the repeated references to “the gawky girl” that the protagonist goes to school with, who ends up becoming a novelist, who ends up writing books with Smiley’s own titles, and then there’s a completely WTF out of the blue dystopian hellhole epilogue and…I found myself wondering whether Smiley has actually lost it.

    Which is a shame, because I loved Horse Heaven and a few of her other books so much. But this one turned into a wet mess that desperately needed an editor who was going to say “NO, Jane…something actually has to HAPPEN to this character before you pull out the apocalyptic ‘and it was all a dream OR WAS IT?!’ bit at the end. And you know what? That bit? Doesn’t work. At all. Rewrite!”

  19. 19.

    Renie

    I believe this thread’s title pertains to this anniversary:

    60 years ago today, Michael Schwerner, Andrew Goodman and James Chaney, three Congress of Racial Equality field workers, were killed in rural Neshoba County, Mississippi, by members of the Ku Klux Klan. They were in Mississippi trying to register black voters. Their deaths lead to the 1965 Civil Rights Act. 18 KKK members were involved in their murders yet the State of Mississippi refused to prosecute them. The federal government had to charge them with civil rights violations; only 7 were convicted. It wasn’t until 2005 that a KKK member was finally convicted of their murder.

    GOP still trying to curb people’s rights to vote.  Nothing Changes, Until It Does.

  21. 21.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Baud:

    @Eolirin: So we elect Biden and as many Dems as possible in November.  Then we work on the next phase of the problem.  Then the next.  But, first, we work to elect Biden and as many Dems as possible.

  22. 22.

    BlueGuitarist

     

    @Eolirin:
    Mansion and Cinema failed epically.

    Cant remember who said Manchin had done a lot of good compared to the alternate reality in which he didn’t exist and done a lot of harm compared to the alternate reality in which he wasn’t an idiot.

  23. 23.

    H.E.Wolf

    On the “nothing changes, until it does” front: Here is one small, concrete action available for us to take.

    Democrats in FL are busy re-registering their voters for FL Vote By Mail. This has the potential to help pass FL’s abortion rights amendment, which is on the ballot this November. Democratic former US Rep. Debbie Mucarsel-Powell, who’s running for Senator against Rick Scott, will also be on the November ballot.

    One of the partners in this effort is Postcards To Voters. They provide addresses of Democrats, 3 pre-approved sentences to write, and 3 business days in which to mail postcards. Minimum is 4 addresses at a time (I’ve been doing batches of 5), available via email or Slack.

    To get started: email [email protected]

    (And buy postcard stamps now, for a bargain rate: prices go up on July 14.)

  26. 26.

    BlueGuitarist

    @Renie:

    Thanks.
    Chaney, Goodman, and Schwerner, and the others in freedom summer were so brave, and so young. Heroes.

    (The real freedom summer, not some DeSantis bs.
    DeSantis wishes he was one of the
    good old  boys drinking whiskey and rye/singing this will be the day that I die)

  27. 27.

    H.E.Wolf

    @Omnes Omnibus: So we elect Biden and as many Dems as possible in November. Then we work on the next phase of the problem. Then the next. But, first, we work to elect Biden and as many Dems as possible.

     Amen.

    PS: It’s a good time to boost the Democrats’ chances in North Carolina, and empower college-age Black North Carolinians. See the fundraising thermometer in the sidebar.

  29. 29.

    RevRick

    @BlueGuitarist: I would also grant statehood to Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands (as one state) and add our Pacific Islands territories to Hawaii. It’s way past time that we ceased being an imperialistic state.

  30. 30.

    Mr. Bemused Senior

    @Kosh III: from the WaPo story

    Kirby did not specify how long U.S. allies would need to wait for their delayed orders, but said this reprioritization would not impact Taiwan, which faces a threat from China, or Israel, which has endured attacks from Iranian-backed groups in the Middle East, including Hezbollah and Houthi militants.

    Meanwhile Netanyahu is complaining about slow deliveries. [Headline only, article link is broken]

  32. 32.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    Trump Media & Technology Group Corp
    June 20, 2024

    Down 34.05% in the last five days.

    everything dump touches dies

  34. 34.

    JoyceH

    Something I’ve been thinking for a while. Remember the Women’s March? The one that happened the day after Trump’s inauguration? We need another one of those. And it needs to take place on January 6, 2025.

    Think about it. Announce it the day after the election (which I’m assuming Biden will win). Do the planning as publicly as the original march. Make sure that MAGAworld knows. We’re coming. And we vastly outnumber you. A huge peaceful march might make Trump’s coconspirators in Congress think twice about making waves on the 6th. Might make the Trump militias think twice about creating chaos. Might make the Extreme Court think twice about ignoring the overwhelming majorities they’re legislating from the bench against. A huge march for democracy, for decency, for the rights of everyone, and for a return to normality.  An enormous group of fed up Americans presenting the message to the insanity of the past decade – KNOCK THIS SHIT OFF!

  36. 36.

    eversor

    @JoyceH:

    That march didn’t accomplish anything though.  And an unarmed march isn’t going to scare anybody from starting shit or creating chaos.

    This is the sort of thing that you do because it makes you and yours feel good.  It’s not intimidating to anyone else they won’t care.

  37. 37.

    BlueGuitarist

    Minnesota Governor Tim Walz

    You’re seeing the contrast in this when you get a Democratic governor versus a Republican governor. We don’t have the Ten Commandments posted in our classrooms, but we have free breakfast and lunch. Those are policies that the Biden-Harris administration are talking about going nationally.

    More at Digby
    https://digbysblog.net/2024/06/21/let-them-eat-grievance/

  38. 38.

    Geminid

    @Kosh III: This decision won’t affect Israel much if any because they build their own air defense systems. They even export them to countries like Finland and the UAE, although I don’t think Finland’s order has been filled yet.

  39. 39.

    stinger

    @Renie: Thank you for this reminder. I hadn’t seen anything on the morning news (watched for the local weather forecast, but then I tend to leave it on until I leave the house). Maybe the evening national news? I keed, I keed.

  40. 40.

    jonas

    @smith: I think at least some of that has to do with the fact that they’ve been issuing a bunch of new shares, which has been putting downward pressure on the price. Not sure how the overall market cap has been affected.

  41. 41.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @eversor: Right, MLK’s March on Washington did nothing.

    Marches like that can do wonders for peoples’ morale.  Knowing that you are not alone and that others share and and are working toward realizing your values and policies can be inspirational.  It can be a big part of a strategy.

    IOW, take your cynicism walking.

  42. 42.

    Marc

    @Geminid: This decision won’t affect Israel because it builds its own air defense systems. They even export them to countries like Finland and the UAE, although I don’t think Finland’s order has been filled yet.

    That is incorrect.  Israel currently has Patriot missile batteries deployed. The David’s Sling systems that are intended to replace the Patriots are a joint venture with Raytheon (or whatever stupid name they use these days) with the missiles and most of the radar components US manufactured and exported to Israel.  I believe the same is true of Iron Dome, as well.

  43. 43.

    scav

    @BlueGuitarist: It’s not as though adding wallpaper commandments in classrooms will necessarily alter the state’s crime / murder / adultery / literacy rates to any degree whatsoever, not any more than putting up posters of po’boys will solve student hunger (which could very well be their next trick, unless their free student lunch turns out be a single consecrated wafer.  “Feed the Soul, not the corrupt Body!”).

  46. 46.

    stinger

    @JoyceH: I think our gigantic march to tell people to KNOCK THIS SHIT OFF should take place on November 5. That would garner attention and have lasting significance.

  48. 48.

    Geminid

    @Marc: That is true, but the question was whether this US decision regarding Patriot missile orders will affect weapons orders for Israel, and I don’t think it will.

  50. 50.

    gene108

    @eversor:

     

    @:JoyceH

     

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    The Women’s March was a moral booster. It didn’t intimidate anybody.

    Our side isn’t set up to be intimidating. The cops and most other institutions aren’t really on the side of liberal reforms that threaten powerful entrenched interests.

  52. 52.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Renie:

    18 KKK members were involved in their murders yet the State of Mississippi refused to prosecute them. The federal government had to charge them with civil rights violations

    And this is why conservatives hate the federal government.

  53. 53.

    Marc

    @Geminid:  That is true, but the question was whether this US decision regarding Patriot missile orders will affect weapons orders for Israel, and I don’t think it will.

    The clue is that they added an explicit carveout for Israel, which would only be necessary if it was going to affect them.  As another example, prioritizing NASAMS deliveries to Ukraine would affect delivery of all AIM-120 missiles, including those ordered to equip Israeli fighter aircraft.

  55. 55.

    thruppence

    Just received a fundraising text from Four Directions. I replied (I don’t know if anybody reads replies) that I’d donated several times through Balloon-Juice and we had raised thousands for them. I wonder if they’ll check out this lowly blog

  56. 56.

    JML

    @Eolirin: it’s never just one thing, though. because church-driven GOTV is also very significant for the black community. We don’t win Georgia senate seats without “souls to the polls”.

  57. 57.

    Jinchi

    @Dadadadadadada: I’ve been thinking for a few months now that every day of the campaign is going to be TCFG’s last best day.

    Agreed. And he looks seriously unwell lately. Ronnie Jackson tested him for dementia 4 years ago and he hasn’t gotten smarter since.

  62. 62.

    Geminid

    @rikyrah: Katie Ledecki is one reason I am looking forward to the Olympics. Another is Turkiye’s women’s volleyball team and its awesome strikers, Ebrar Karakurt and Cuban-born Melissa “Air” Vargas. I think the “Sultans of the Net” are ranked 1st in the world, but the competition will be fierce.

  63. 63.

    Jinchi

    @Marc: The clue is that they added an explicit carveout for Israel,

    As much as I despise Netanyahu and wish Biden were more forceful in support of civilians in Gaza, I 100% support ensuring Israel’s air defense.

    I’m pretty sure the October 7th attacks had Russian encouragement, hoping to distract the US from the war in Ukraine. I expect they’ll try more provocations before November.

  64. 64.

    Shalimar

    @eversor: Who said all of us would be unarmed and unprepared for violence?  Speak for yourself.

    I agree with Joyce.  A massive demonstration of how outnumbered they are is necessary.

  65. 65.

    Dan B

    @BlueGuitarist: Michael Schwerner was an elementary school friend of Robert Reich.  “Mike” protected Reich against bullies who wanted to beat up the very short kid.  I can imagine the pain this caused to Robert Reich.  The video Reich recorded was heart wrenching.

  66. 66.

    stinger

    @Shalimar:

    Again, November 5 is the best date for such a demonstration. On that day we gather in our millions and march to the polls and VOTE.

    I wouldn’t dilute this effort with anything lesser.

  67. 67.

    MinuteMan

    @WaterGirl: It’s now or never if we want to have a functional Senate again, and we definitely do!

    But do the prima donas want that?  Of course, with a narrowly divided Senate (probably the best we could hope for) they’ll still get to do their my-way-or-the-highway act but that’ll actually be better for them since right now that veto power belongs to the Senate minority.

  69. 69.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @gene108:

    useful thought, sort of illuminating, as I try to learn how to think about the whole travesty of pro dictators vs democrats.

    on the side of liberal reforms that threaten powerful entrenched interests.

  70. 70.

    Gloria DryGarden

    In tears of great gladness that we’re going to prioritize sending all those Patriot missile systems over to Ukraine. Mostly I keep my head in the sand so I’m not crying all day.
    too bad all this help didn’t get prioritized when congress was voting about it months ago. (Understatement)

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