Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Impressively dumb. Congratulations.

“Joe Biden deserved better than he got from some folks in his own party.”

I’d like to think you all would remain faithful to me if i ever tried to have some of you killed.

🎶 Those boots were made for mockin’ 🎵

They’re not red states to be hated; they are voter suppression states to be fixed.

Dear Washington Post, you are the darkness now.

Republicans in disarray!

The republican speaker is a slippery little devil.

Republicans firmly believe having an abortion is a very personal, very private decision between a woman and J.D. Vance.

When you’re a Republican, they let you do it.

Live so that if you miss a day of work people aren’t hoping you’re dead.

When someone says they “love freedom”, rest assured they don’t mean yours.

Never give a known liar the benefit of the doubt.

A thin legal pretext to veneer over their personal religious and political desires.

Polls are now a reliable indicator of what corporate Republicans want us to think.

You can’t attract Republican voters. You can only out organize them.

There are consequences to being an arrogant, sullen prick.

My right to basic bodily autonomy is not on the table. that’s the new deal.

Republicans: The threats are dire, but my tickets are non-refundable!

If marriage is the equivalent of selling yourself into slavery, women with self respect should reject the offer.

You can’t love your country only when you win.

Following reporting rules is only for the little people, apparently.

Perhaps you mistook them for somebody who gives a damn.

If you still can’t see these things even now, maybe politics isn’t your forte and you should stop writing about it.

You are here: Home / Elections 2024 / Presidential Debate Open Thread: At Last, the Showdown

Presidential Debate Open Thread: At Last, the Showdown

by | 417 Comments

This post is in: ,

Presidential Debate Open Thread: At Last, the Showdown

(Jack Ohman via GoComics.com)

CNN is (more than) ready to rumble.

The Washington Post‘s liveblog is here.

The Guardian‘s is here. (They report that TFG showed up in Atlanta, so that’s one hurdle down.)

Politico ran down every ‘expert’ they could winkle a ‘contrasting viewpoint’ from, and I found this one mildly interesting:

Philippe Reines, longtime Hillary Clinton adviser who played Trump in her 2016 debate preparations: I’ll be watching the introduction and their walking on stage. These two haven’t seen each other in 1,343 days. They’re not fond of each other. Plus, Trump will be triggered in ways he might not even realize. When’s the last time he wasn’t the biggest big shot in the room? He’ll be introduced as a “former” — which probably doesn’t happen at Mar-a-Lago weddings or UFC MMA events. His plane will have had to idle in deference to Air Force One. His motorcade is smaller. The animosity will be seismic and immediate. As Mike Tyson said, everyone has a plan until they’re punched in the face. Don’t discount the impact of such emotionality on a candidate’s performance. It would manifest itself differently in each. Such a dynamic would redound to President Biden’s favor. Not so much for the former.

One concern is in an area I can’t believe I’m saying with a straight face: Policy. Unless Trump is muted for all 90 minutes, the lies will fly. So it might seem to viewers like a blow landed when in fact he threw a punch below the belt that Biden and the moderators couldn’t process fast enough to call bullshit. This is the type of attack Trump relishes and relied on during the 2015 Republican primary season.

Presidential Debate Open Thread: At Last, the Showdown 1

(Mike Luckovich via GoComics.com)

 
CNN reports that Trump has ensured a fierce post-debate defense of his performance by enticing all his potential running mates into the fray:

The jockeying to be Donald Trump’s vice president will be on full display tonight, as his surrogates take to the spin room following the debate.

All of Trump’s potential vice presidential picks are planning to flood the airwaves in defense of the former president.

Sens. Marco Rubio and J.D. Vance as well as North Dakota Gov. Doug Burgum — who CNN recently reported has emerged at the top of Trump’s list — will be in attendance.

Dr. Ben Carson, Sen. Tim Scott, and Reps. Elisa Stefanik and Byron Donalds, all of whom have done some version of vetting for the job will also be in the room.

Trump has said that he has chosen his vice president, but has not shared this with anyone close to him. Sources said he was likely to announce his choice before the convention next month.

Reader Interactions

417Comments

  4. 4.

    bbleh

    I’ll be watching the introduction and their walking on stage.

    I don’t know if they’re gonna do a handshake, but if so I would not put it at all past Trump to try to use his much heavier weight to pull Biden visibly off balance.  He tried it with Trudeau and got his lard-ass politely handed to him, but Biden ain’t as big.

  7. 7.

    bbleh

    @zhena gogolia: he’d need to be well braced for it, ie anticipate it, and that’s hard to do smoothly in motion, and even more so without looking defensive (scared).  And it would be just the kind of dominance trick that TCFG would try, and of course if it succeeded even to some degree, the media would never stop wallowing in it.

    I hope no handshake.

  8. 8.

    HeleninEire

    I cannot believe I am actually watching this. Why? Yeah. I’m a little bit drunk, had a day a work.

    Nice to see you all. ❤️

  9. 9.

    Smiling Happy Guy (aka boatboy_srq)

    I am NOT watching, for my own sanity. Instead I am revisiting something far more realistic and historical lyrics accurate than any of Felonious Thunk’s rantings: Bram Stoker’s Dracula.

    I am reading here and a couple other sites, watching for tidbits of Cheatolini’s insanity.

  10. 10.

    dmsilev

    I’ve got my nice and full glass of wine.

    And, if necessary, more in the pantry.

  14. 14.

    FastEdD

    I will be reading liveblogs to keep my blood pressure down. I’l know what is going on without listening to THAT voice.

  18. 18.

    hitchhiker

    you guys are my safe space.

    those of you watching, just tell me it’s going well and going to be okay.

    Biden should refuse to shake his hand if it’s offered. trump didn’t have the grace or patriotism to show up for the inauguration, so fuck ‘im.

  22. 22.

    NotMax

    Dictionary contrasts with the wording of the headline.

    Showdown: a meeting, argument, fight, etc., that will finally settle a disagreement between people or groups

    Nuthin’ final about what is about to unfold.

  23. 23.

    hrprogressive

    Kind of don’t even know why I am tuning in.

    Trump isn’t going to alienate his cult. Biden isn’t going to bring any cult members over.

    Anyone who considers themselves “Undecided” about whether they should pick “The End of the American Republic” or “Flawed, But Still Vaguely Democratic” is either insane, super contrarian, a “true leftist” moron, or a Fash For Profit business type who maybe doesn’t really like Trump but really likes ultra tax cuts and deregulation.

    I don’t know if I’ll watch the whole thing but I am curious to know if CNN and the moderators and the audience-free environment actually makes a difference.

  25. 25.

    VFX Lurker

    I like Joe Biden, but I can’t look at or listen to the felon. So, I’ll hit “refresh” on this page to follow along.

  26. 26.

    Geminid

    I’m wondering if Trump will bring up the Israeli/Hamas war. He might believe Biden is vulnerable on this issue.

  30. 30.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @zhena gogolia: ​
     

    We’re reading an oral history of Airplane! It is hilarious.

    Link please.
    Simply one of the best comedies ever made. Back in the day, we’d watch in on then-new HBO and were constantly amazed at how much we “caught” on repeated viewings.

  35. 35.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    We’re going to cozy up in bed and watch pornhub

  48. 48.

    hrprogressive

    Biden sounded super fired up at SOTU.

    He unfortunately does not sound that way right now.

    Perhaps because the atmosphere is different.

    It doesn’t bother me because I don’t want this country to fall into Fascism, but yeah, that’ll probably affect some people.

  49. 49.

    Leto

    If you haven’t opened your bottle of Everclear, and mainlined it straight to your veins, then you need to fix that now.

  57. 57.

    zhena gogolia

    God, I can’t believe that reading BJ is more agonizing than actually watching the thing.

  62. 62.

    O. Felix Culpa

    Joe’s voice isn’t strong, and he’s not as focused as I would like. Maybe too geeked up? He’s normally good at debates.

  65. 65.

    hrprogressive

    Complete non answer from Convicted Felon Donald Trump.

    Not Even a good sound bite IMO.

  66. 66.

    Salty Sam

    That’s it, all I can take, I’m tapping out.

    This is the most ridiculous format I’ve ever seen.  I’m sorry Joe has to stand there and go through this.

  70. 70.

    hrprogressive

    The question was about taxes, and Convicted Felon Donald Trump has said fuck all about taxes.

  72. 72.

    Quinerly

    I can’t believe I forgot to buy beer. I’m going with Gin. My liver will talk dirty to me in the AM.

  75. 75.

    O. Felix Culpa

    Call me a wuss, I just turned it off. Too painful. Maybe–I hope!!–Joe will pull it together, but right now he is not at his best.

  78. 78.

    pat

    This was a massive mistake. Trump can make the most ridiculous lies and there is no way that Joe can respond.

  83. 83.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    This is sounding like Obama’s first debate against Rmoney.

    He rebounded.

  89. 89.

    Avalune

    I’ve never met someone use so many words to say nothing. He uses the same phrases all the time. (Trump obviously).

    Biden just lost his train of thought and Trump kinda pounced on it. :(

  93. 93.

    debit

    @O. Felix Culpa: I was just going to say “It’s only June.”

    I think people assumed we were going to get battery and shark Trump.

    ETA: I am not ready to go into a defensive crouch. I don’t know what’s going on with Joe, but he’s not on his game tonight. That doesn’t mean he won’t be next time.

  95. 95.

    pat

    I have to wonder what shot trump got in the ass……

    This is not how he usually “speaks,”

  99. 99.

    hrprogressive

    Here’s the thing.

    Anyone paying attention to what is actually being said…realizes that Convicted Felon Donald Trump is both lying out of his ass, and also, speaking in circles.

    But anyone who either isn’t paying attention closely, or, who only catches sound bites…

    Yeah.

    This isn’t filling me with confidence right now, sorry for anyone seeking confidence.

  101. 101.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @SenyorDave:

    Trump rambles but it doesn’t matter.

    That’s the problem: the Felon is spewing the usual lies and bullshit, but he sounds strong. Biden, alas, does not.

  103. 103.

    karen marie

    @O. Felix Culpa:  Absolutely painful.  He clearly has something going on with his voice.  It would have been great had he taken 30 seconds to address that at the start.  And then when he lost his train of thought halfway through a rebuttal …

    We are so fucked.

    The CNN livestream is terrible.  I can’t listen to it and be here – CNN doesn’t play if you’re not looking at that fucked up situation.

  104. 104.

    NotMax

    “Every legal scholar.” Jesus, Dolt lying his ass off.

    Now going off on after birth abortion.

  106. 106.

    Quinerly

    It’s a disaster. No way to spin this. And I’m a hardcore Biden supporter. Have been for years.

  109. 109.

    Balconesfault

    Over prepped Biden. They tried to prepare him for every Trump lie, and he’s struggling to remember his responses.

  112. 112.

    kalakal

    This is not good at all. Trump is talking complete BS but it doesn’t matter.

    Try watching with the sound off, the visuals are terrible

     

  113. 113.

    CaseyL

    FFS, people. Calm the fuck down.

    I can’t believe you have the sackcloth and ashes out already.

    I’m outta here.

  115. 115.

    hrprogressive

    @Omnes Omnibus: ​
     

    The country is on the precipice of being destroyed, so, no.

    I was shocked the 2022 red wave didn’t happen. But I feel like all it did was pause our fall over the cliff, not reverse it.

  122. 122.

    piratedan

    i tend to agree, I know their positions, I know what they stand for and Trump is an abomination, but Biden looks old, sounds old and Trump can just gish gallop along as he’s always done.  You get unfiltered Trump, where he “sounds” reasonable.  Even on stuff that Biden is in his wheelhouse, it doesn’t matter, you get Trump lying about Abortion and more the Roe V Wade bullshit.

  124. 124.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @cain:  I’m sure as hell not conceding the election, but I’m also not going to pretend that a poor Biden performance (so far) is good. We’re not the cultists here.

  126. 126.

    dmsilev

    The last answer on abortion was good. Hopefully Biden is starting to get warmed up.

  128. 128.

    MomSense

    Look I’m going to fight my ass off for Democrats this election but this debate is a goddamned nightmare

  135. 135.

    piratedan

    my fear is that the focus will be on Biden’s age and not on Trump’s lies in the wrap up.

  138. 138.

    Mai Naem mobile

    I am listening not watching and I came here hoping that the visuals were better than the audio sounds. Ugh.

  140. 140.

    Mousebumples

    My thanks to those of you who are watching.

    I’m going to use the pie filter more than usual tonight, though, I think…

    (at a local baseball game, with the in laws watching the kiddos. My FIL was shocked I was willing to miss the debate. LOL, I don’t want to watch the former convicted felon guy)

  142. 142.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @WaterGirl:

    That’s what makes the movie so brilliant.  It’s like every frame has something in it…verbal and visual.

    I watched it a dozen times just to go thru the material in the credits.

  144. 144.

    Starfish

    So Trump and Biden varied on style in answering the abortion question. Biden seemed nervous. Trump sounded confident, but the radical anti-abortion position that he is talking about is super unpopular. He remembered to hedge on this issue during the last election.

  145. 145.

    Bupalos

    @O. Felix Culpa: this is the first time I’ve had a bad enough feeling about one of these that I just committed to not watching. Also the first time I’ve been able to stick to a commitment like that, but it’s just because my guardians are playing.

  146. 146.

    WaterGirl

    I suggest that it’s too early for us to slit our wrists.  It might be therapeutic to see the thermometer in the sidebar rising.

  147. 147.

    Leto

    Living in luxury hotels and doesn’t like vets… I literally cannot wait to shit on his grave. I do not give a fuck where it is, I’m shitting on his grave.

  148. 148.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @piratedan:

    my fear is that the focus will be on Biden’s age and not on Trump’s lies in the wrap up.

    You can count on it.  Our Failed Corporate Media is loving this.

  151. 151.

    bbleh

    Trump is Gish Galloping, and Biden seems unable to handle it well.  I’m a little surprised by that.

  152. 152.

    japa21

    I’m just following here and a couple other places. I do know that how that last 30 minutes goes is more important than how the first 30 do.

  153. 153.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @VFX Lurker: Who are the newbies? I’ve seen practically all the nyms on this thread before. Maybe one or two at most I don’t recognize.

  156. 156.

    Piper

    The President is being repeatedly punched by a lunatic. Finally punched back with suckers & losers

  159. 159.

    VFX Lurker

    @Starfish: Trump sounded confident, but the radical anti-abortion position that he is talking about is super unpopular

    Silver lining: maybe those clips will make it into anti-Trump ads.

  161. 161.

    SiubhanDuinne

    TCFFG is starting to move into MAGA rally, stream-of-consciousness mode. And Biden is sounding more focused. I agree with Omnes, just everybody please calm down.

  163. 163.

    mrmoshpotato

    @debit: I can’t believe that the hosts are letting him just lie and not pushing back.

    CNN beat Hillary black and blue.  I’m not surprised.  Fuck CNN, and Dump can fuck himself into Moscow and the Sun.

  164. 164.

    Betty

    @debit: Trump keeps saying more outrageous crap!! So frustrating! Thank God, Biden is now calling out the immigration lies and the military lies. But Joe is still talking too fast though which makes his stutter issue more obvious.

  166. 166.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @japa21:

    I do know that how that last 30 minutes goes is more important than how the first 30 do.

    From your keyboard to the FSM’s ears.

  169. 169.

    Joy in FL

    I notice T has just said “He doesn’t even know” regarding President Biden and immigrants. T also said earlier that he didn’t understand what President Biden at the end of an answer. T continued by saying, “I don’t think even he knew what he said.”

    I think there is a plan to take any opportunity to hint and/or openly state that Mr. Biden is deficit. Whatever prep T did is certainly effective. It’s not debate prep; it’s prep to deceive and manipulate.

  170. 170.

    hrprogressive

    Again, for anyone trying to figure out what Convicted Felon Donald Trump is “saying” is actually probably not finding much they like, in terms of actual policies or things like that.

    But Again, low information / contrarian voters who might do an A/B comparison here and decide one person “sounds better” and the other doesn’t.

    And it ain’t our guy who “sounds better”

    Is that fair? No.

    Right now, Convicted Felon Donald Trump just spouted off a shit ton of word salad about laptops and Russia and whatever that….made no sense.

    But this country full of people who don’t understand nuance, and apply broad opinions without understanding said nuance?

    Yeah.

  172. 172.

    Mai Naem mobile

    TFG is such a fucking liar. JFC. He’s said suckers and losers several times. I’d like to see Biden punch him in his ugly orange douchebag face.

  173. 173.

    dmsilev

    @SiubhanDuinne: Yep. Biden is getting warmed up, and Trump is starting to babble more and more. It’s still not what I would call ideal, but it’s getting better.

  175. 175.

    Citizen Dave

    Joe brought up the “suckers and losers” and called shitstain a loser.  This is a shitshow, but agree with the “calm down” comments.  We’re fine.

  176. 176.

    Albatrossity

    @debit: Trump’s constant bitching about the moderators in the past week or so has had the desired effect. The media instinct to both-sides everything cannot be overestimated.

  177. 177.

    Hungry Joe

    I’m not an Eeyore hair-on-fire type, and had very high hopes, but so far this is a flat-out catastrophe. Trump is spewing nonsense but is presenting as normal; Biden seems old, confused, out of his depth. Had to stop watching.

     

    I’ll follow this thread. Lead me through this, O my fellow jackals.

  179. 179.

    Soprano2

    TCFG didn’t answer the question about deportation and they let him get away with that.

  183. 183.

    debit

    I’m just listening, not watching because I can’t watch Trump mugging and grimacing. I will say that Joe sounds old, and Trump sounds more and more energetic the more he Gish Gallops. When someone shamelessly lies and doubles and triples down no matter what, how do you fight that? Other than calling out the lie?

  185. 185.

    SiubhanDuinne

    This TCFFG non-answer to Russia-Ukraine. JFC

    …and it’s a MALARKEY from Joe! Drink!

  188. 188.

    Jackie

    I’m guessing Biden has a touch of laryngitis from too much prepping?

    TCFG is spewing so much BS and the moderators aren’t fact-checking him at all.😡

  191. 191.

    hrprogressive

    Again, if Convicted Felon Donald Trump continues to spew word salad, that’s less likely to attract *new voters*.

    But it’s all those skeptical voters who aren’t firmly in one category who could make snap judgments on poor moments and that could cost this country, dearly.

  192. 192.

    Shrillhouse

    I can’t follow Trump, because his sentences sense make don’t.

    But, it’s hard to follow Biden because his voice is so weak…

  195. 195.

    Leto

    @debit: the only way you can stop it is to have the moderators call out each and every lie, as well as mute him every time he lies. But they’ll never do it. Fact checkers can’t keep up, and the reich wing won’t listen.

  198. 198.

    O. Felix Culpa

    So, do debates matter or do they not matter?

    If the latter, why did Biden want one, and why are we–or at least some of us–watching?

  202. 202.

    Captain C

    @Leto: How about hook up TCFG to an electric shock device, which gets a little stronger after each lie, and have it operated by a committee of Juicers?  That could get amusing quickly.

  205. 205.

    Avalune

    @Leto: can you imagine how long the debate would go on if they tried to fact check this dude? We’d still be here next Thursday.

  208. 208.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Jackie:

    I’m guessing Biden has a touch of laryngitis from too much prepping? 

    Most definitely.

    TCFG is spewing so much BS and the moderators aren’t fact-checking him at all.😡

    Absolutely right.  Fuck CNN!

  210. 210.

    different-church-lady

    How it should go:
    REPUBLICANS: “Biden sounds old!”
    DEMOCRATS” “Yeah, well Trump sounds incoherent!”

    How it’s going to go:
    REPUBLICANS: “Biden sounds old!”
    DEMOCRATS: “Yeah, well, you have a point…”

  213. 213.

    hrprogressive

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): ​
     

    Well, if you believe polling (and there’s a reasonable case to at least be skeptical) this is a tight race with a ton of undecided voters.

    I mean.

    Convicted Felon Donald Trump shocked everyone by winning in 2016, and everything I thought I knew or could know about this country kind of died at that moment.

    We got a reprieve in 2020. We got another one in 2022.

    If we don’t get another one here, it literally could be curtains for this country, as we know it.

    Biden should be ahead by double digits. Just because he’s not a Fascist Dictator on Day 1

  219. 219.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @different-church-lady:

    How it should go:

    REPUBLICANS: “Biden sounds old!”

    DEMOCRATS” “Yeah, well Trump sounds incoherent!”

    How it’s going to go:

    REPUBLICANS: “Biden sounds old!”

    DEMOCRATS: “Yeah, well, you have a point…”

    “Biden could be fucking dead and I’d still vote for him over a fascist like Trump who’s a danger to all of us.”

  221. 221.

    cain

    Yeah Tom Nichols thinks that he might have ‘over-prepared’ but someone also said who the fuck prepped him? Did they prep him for an actual debate? Because that’s not what this is. This was never a debate – this is supposed to be a slug fest – but Biden for instance isn’t doing anything to throw Trump off is game while Trump is just being Trump.

    The cultists are loving this. Even if he’s not making a lick of sense.

  222. 222.

    Starfish

    Why is the moderator not cutting this off? How did he pivot to trade on a question about Palestine?

  225. 225.

    Citizen Dave

    Trump could pick fellow con man Vivek as running mate.  Joe has Kamala.  They beat trump’s ass last time and will again

    They’re on Jan. 6 now.  Trump said Pelosi’s daughter is a “documentary filimaker”.  Trump is babbling.

  226. 226.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Trump is getting some kind of coaching or signals from somewhere. His facial expressions while Biden talks are almost conversational.

  227. 227.

    Betty

    I am thinking Biden over-prepared, is trying to stuff too many facts into his answer and caused his hoarseness.

  231. 231.

    BretH

    Sorry, truth is this is absolute horrorshow. Of all the outcomes I could have imagined this is far far worse. That’s the truth of it. Trump is lying his ass off but sounds “good”. I’m used to his stammering but Biden is getting lost in his train of thought. And again this is just the truth, when listening to Trump he looks like he has had a stroke.
    It’s getting better but it’s still shitshow.

  234. 234.

    Avalune

    Guys I made the mistake of looking up at that stupid face. That punchable punchable face. The smug freakin face. Rawr!

    Still can’t believe this is even a possibility…this guy. Really? This guy? Really?

  236. 236.

    Leto

    Joe is looking like, how the fuck do you “debate” a NY Island garbage dump? Are you serious, you want me to respond to that?

    And fuckface doesn’t answer, ofc.

  239. 239.

    dmsilev

    OK, this is not a good answer for Trump. Also, good on the moderators for actually trying to make him answer the Jan 6 question.

  243. 243.

    Quinerly

    @Bobby Thomson: wow! Step away for a few weeks to do yard work and brush clearing to secure my perimeters in case of a wildfire and the really impt people forget all about me. I’m crushed. I may never recover.

  245. 245.

    The Thin Black Duke

    The voters who are going to decide this election ain’t watching the debate. Calm down, folks.

  248. 248.

    hrprogressive

    Again, if an undecided voter is *actually paying attention* to what is being said…

    This is totally horseshit from Convicted Felon Donald Trump. He didn’t say anything of substance. He doesn’t answer questions. He just spews trash.

    But we are not a nation of hundreds of millions of people who pay attention.

    That’s what scares me.

    Why doesn’t Biden just say “That man attempted a Coup. He wanted to seize power after losing a fair and lawful election. Period. You can’t send him back to the White House, he’ll never leave”

    He didn’t.

    Yeah.

  260. 260.

    cain

    @The Thin Black Duke:

    You should see the freakout on mastodon – lawd, so much doom and gloom.

    I don’t give a shit about this debate. But Trump is showing his ass, with all his positions and he’s showing plenty of sound bites to use on the campaign against him.

  262. 262.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @hrprogressive:

    It’s just a tradition that political candidates are expected to do at this point. Debates are a relic from a time before the extreme political polarization we find ourselves in today

  264. 264.

    Quinerly

    @opiejeanne:

    That was fun. One of the things I miss most about my old St. Louis is McGurk’s. Good times.

    There was a time I was meeting Jackals right and left on my travels. But you came to me.

  265. 265.

    The Thin Black Duke

    @hrprogressive: People who like reality TV shows and wrestling. Whatever this is, it’s not a “debate”, not when an asshole loudmouth can lie freely and frequently without fear of even the mildest pushback.

  266. 266.

    Joy in FL

    @SiubhanDuinne: I thought that also. Someone really got to T about how he needs to appear “normal,” and I think someone is there supporting him.

  271. 271.

    RandomMonster

    I like watching debates and my anxiety watching tonight was just too much.

    Not giving up but I’m demoralized.

  274. 274.

    Leto

    @cain: our millennial son is upstairs talking on discord with friends. We’ll fill him in later.

    “You’ve got the morals of an alley cat” lol

  275. 275.

    Mallard Filmore

    “I didn’t have sex with a porn star” …

    Because I couldn’t get it up and in, he did not say.

     

    [fix typo]

  276. 276.

    dmsilev

    “You have the morals of an alley cat”

    “Mr. President, Alley Cat AntiDefamation League holding for you on line 3”

  279. 279.

    WaterGirl

    @Bobby Thomson: debit adopted Walter.  Do you remember Walter?

    FYI, I haven’t had to approve a single “first comment” on this thread.

    I’m guessing that my low information voter sister doesn’t even know there is a debate tonight.

    Let’s not panic and turn on one another.  We just have to keep on doing the work to get Biden elected.

  282. 282.

    Starfish

    How many presidential debates did you expect to hear one of the candidates say

    “I didn’t have sex with a porn star.”

  283. 283.

    different-church-lady

    It’s almost as though everyone was told that the only thing that mattered was Biden’s age, and we all just decided to play along.

  284. 284.

    Quinerly

    @WaterGirl:

    I go back to the very beginning. Mostly lurking since I actually worked during the day and by the time I got to threads they were dead.

  285. 285.

    MomSense

    @Bobby Thomson:

    Quinerly is a long time, valued commenter.  And many of us feel the anguish about what is happening to our country.  The fact is that this debate was not a good idea.  You may feel differently and that’s fine.  We are talking to ourselves here.  It’s ok for us to share our reactions in the moment.

  287. 287.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @different-church-lady:

    Maybe. I just know that Trump’s supporters, both voters and electeds, never acknowledge when he makes gaffes. I won’t give Republicans/MAGAs the satisfaction

  289. 289.

    hrprogressive

    Let’s be clear, Joe has gotten a bit tighter, and Trump had come a bit unwound.

    I still wish we had SOTU Biden, because that guy was ready to have me run thru a wall for him. That Joe was on fire.

  290. 290.

    mrmoshpotato

    @3Sice:

    Hamas is killing us on trade? 

    Dump: Tremendously bigly killing us on trade!  And I love dictator ass!  Suck!  Suck!  Suck!

  291. 291.

    cain

    I do think that Joe is missing on a lot of opportunities (and I agree with what I’m reading) to push him on the jan 6th events. He’s really needs to get more mad.

    I’m waiting for Trump to push the Hunter Biden thing – because I know it’s coming. I hope that will get him fired up.

  292. 292.

    opiejeanne

    @Bobby Thomson: I recognize you, from a long time ago. I haven’t seen you posting for a long time, but I do remember you. I’m surprised at you.

  294. 294.

    zhena gogolia

    I’m just following along here. I take some heart from those of you who say Biden is improving. “morals of an alley cat” is a good line

  297. 297.

    kalakal

    I don’t think this is going well BUT I just had a look at the BBC live commentary and that makes it seem much more even . An awful lot of people are going to hear/read about this rather than see it and the actual words spoken become more important. Biden’s delivery is poor but he’s being truthful and coherent. Trump is just lying non stop and making very little sense

  302. 302.

    Geminid

    @raven: He probably should have said “ballistic missiles.” The missiles Iran fired at Israel were medium range ballistic missiles.

  306. 306.

    Leto

    He’s debunked the Charlottesville story? WHAT FUCKING PLANET ARE WE LIVING ON? Shitting. On. His. Grave. Fucking Nazi fuck.

  307. 307.

    Smiling Happy Guy (aka boatboy_srq)

    Glad I waited until now and read all the way down.

    Am I reading right that Biden got his second wind? And of course Felonious Thunk is spinning tales from his fantasy world.

  308. 308.

    different-church-lady

    For crissake, I wasn’t implying that everyone who had a negative comment was a bot!

  309. 309.

    hrprogressive

    @kalakal: ​
     

    Again, if people report on this as “Trump lied and said nothing of substance, and the President restated his Ideals to defend democracy” then that’s fine.

    If most people actually hear about this in drips instead of watching this bell-to-bell, then that’s probably better.

  311. 311.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @different-church-lady:

    Actually, no. I expected to see and hear SOTU Joe tonight, who was fantastic. That’s not who started the debate, and I’m not going to pretend otherwise. But it sounds like he’s warming up, which is excellent. All in for a strong finish.

  314. 314.

    J. Arthur Crank

    @Leto:   If I send over money for you to buy a barrel of KFC extra crispy, can you take a second dump on my behalf?

  317. 317.

    Leto

    @different-church-lady: beep boop, may I take your order? Idk if you’ve seen, but McD’s is discontinuing their AI bot drive through order system after such snafu’s as a thousand condiment packages for an order, hundreds of chicken nuggets, and some other just major screw ups.

  319. 319.

    Quinerly

    @Bobby Thomson: no. She’s fucking 85 and in good shape. She’s crying for our country. She’s been worried about this debate all week. She’s in horrible pain, too. They postponed her hip replacement surgery because she had a skin tear. Pre op folks said no surgery because of an “open wound.” Aren’t you glad you asked about her?

  320. 320.

    Avalune

    Where is my Elf “you sit on a throne of lives meme” I swear he’s like when my kid was in preschool and licked all the icing off the blue cookies I made for his class and kept denying it. Bro – your face is blue! It’s blue! Except my toddler realized the jig was up and stopped trying to lie about it and this orange asshat just triples down. /shakes fist

  321. 321.

    Joy in FL

    @WaterGirl: “Let’s not panic and turn on one another.  We just have to keep on doing the work to get Biden elected.”

    Yes.

    Thank you.

  322. 322.

    SenyorDave

    Biden seems a little better, but mostly because Trump the last few minutes just keeps repeating that Biden is horrible.  Biden did a decent job on the retribution issue.

  323. 323.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    Joe does look shaky. He’s mumbling and his stutter is really coming through. His voice is struggling.  Trump is just spewing lie after lie after lie. He’s crazy, but he does have more energy. This is killing me. Joe has some good moments here and there. But social media is going to have a field day with his losing his train of thought and everything. Please finish stronger, Joe.

  324. 324.

    Leto

    Ronald Reagan’s kids freedom from religion foundation put out a commercial stating Christian Nationalists are coming to take your freedoms, interposed over images of Jan 6 insurrectionists. Good commercial.

  326. 326.

    VFX Lurker

    @cain: I don’t give a shit about this debate. But Trump is showing his ass, with all his positions and he’s showing plenty of sound bites to use on the campaign against him.

    Good.

  327. 327.

    GregMulka

    I missed the first 35 minutes but from what I’ve seen Joe is picking up steam. He’s speaking too fast when trying to get his talking points in. When he slows down to call Trump a jackass his voice gets stronger.

  328. 328.

    Miki

    @SiubhanDuinne: And just like at his rallies there’s no convincing pushback. Unlike the audience at Trump’s rallies,  Biden should not be a captive audience but that’s what it feels like to me.

  332. 332.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    I confess I’m not actually watching the debate, just following along here. I’m disappointed Biden had a bad start, but hopefully he continues to get his second wind here to finish strong

    I think Trump’s gish galloping and fire hose of bullshit unsettled him, as it would unsettle most people tbh

  334. 334.

    TBone

    I’m beaming lozenge thoughts to President Biden.  He’s slowing down and hitting his stride now.  Calm, cool, collected, and fierce.

  335. 335.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @cain: LOL. No, I haven’t been on mastodon in a long time. It’s interesting that reactions are similar, though.

  336. 336.

    Leto

    @GregMulka: he is; he started out too fast, maybe a bit nervous which is understandable. But he’s settled down, and he’s picking up steam. He’s gotten out a “malarky” and we’re waiting for either “you stupid sob” or “will you shut up, man?”

  337. 337.

    p.a.

    Just following here, I too can’t watch that Orange fuck.  Hopeful the debate is like a boxing match where the last rounds leave the deepest impression.  Then we’ll get the whirlpool of spin; tRump’s team, Joe’s team, & the media’s “let us tell you what you really saw” bullshit.

  338. 338.

    J. Arthur Crank

    @Leto:   Thanks.  I will make it Popeyes instead of KFC.  I don’t want you to go against your principles.

  340. 340.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Geminid: Ruidoso is far away from Quinerly. No threat from that fire. Although it’s always wise to keep brush reasonably cleared, just in case.

  342. 342.

    hrprogressive

    The only people who truly believe Biden “caused the inflation” are people who weren’t going to vote for him in the first place.

    “The economy was flat on its back, he killed it” was not a bad line.

  343. 343.

    mrmoshpotato

    “They’re taking black jobs now!” -Pussy-grabbing, convicted rapist, orange shitstain

  344. 344.

    Joy in FL

    I was watching the debate on Max, and it has “technical difficulties” on my laptop and on Roku.

    Where else can I watch the debate live???  My google search is not showing me any live sites.

  348. 348.

    Starfish

    Trump was asked about the climate crisis. He did not answer it and decided to talk about how cops endorse him.

  352. 352.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @hrprogressive:

    The only people who truly believe Biden “caused the inflation” are people who weren’t going to vote for him in the first place.

    Agreed. And it’s not like the recent trend of higher inflation was confined to the US only. It was and is worldwide. I recall reading that similar bouts of inflation happened after both world wars

  353. 353.

    Joy in FL

    @debit: Thank you. I now have it there.

    It is so hard to listen to Trump lie. But I want to hear it first hand. I want to know.

  355. 355.

    Leto

    Trumpov keeps hammering him on the border, but that’s basically it. And it’s not hammering in a positive way, just keeps bringing everything back to that. “Trumpov, Russia just launched a nuke at Finland; what are you thoughts?” “Border!”

    Biden is giving coherent, intelligent answers on a variety of moderator bs; Trumpov is just… fucking Trumpov.

    Every police group is supporting Trumpov? Yes, we already knew the fascists supported you. You’re repeating yourself.

  358. 358.

    hrprogressive

    “What action will you take to stop the climate crisis?”

    “Let me tell you about the blacks and how cops love me”

    I mean. Come on.

  361. 361.

    Jack the Cold Warrior

    So far, just about every sentence  Trump has uttered is A BIG FRACKEN LIE. I think it will be 150 to 200 lies in 45 minutes..

  368. 368.

    Geminid

    @O. Felix Culpa: Well, I know those fires are no threat to Quinerly’s place but it’s good in general to clear brush near structures and the Ruidosa fires could have been a reminder.

  371. 371.

    Betty

    Absolutely clean water and air! Dear heavens. Trump cannot and will not answer the climate change question. Plus lies about the Paris Agreement. Now lying about the insulin price.

  373. 373.

    Joy in FL

    It is so hard to refute such huge, general lies. There’s no specific part to grab and address to disprove. It’s just a huge vague poison of lies.

  375. 375.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Good point. I think people are freaking out just because the stakes are so much higher this time. Romney would’ve sucked but he never in a million years would’ve been a literal dictator on day 1

  376. 376.

    Avalune

    @Mallard Filmore: I certainly wouldn’t be able to have a good debate with that. I’d spend the whole 90 minutes looking at him like he had a baby hand growing out of his forehead.

  378. 378.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Every time — this has been true for years, not just tonight — whenever TCFFG is asked about GW/CC he answers with “beautiful perfect water” and “perfect clean air.” While this are admirable goals they aren’t really an answer to climate change.

  379. 379.

    Omnes Omnibus

    Biden with raising the SS cap.

    ETA: More time? Beating fuckface over there will help too.

  381. 381.

    Elie

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I hear you but my concern is that Trump will never agree to a second debate after this.  Joe will have to find a way around that limitation.  I would be thrilled to be wrong

  383. 383.

    Llelldorin

    @O. Felix Culpa:

    Sure, but does anyone have a really effective strategy for combatting a Gish gallop in real time in an effectively unmoderated debate?

    Generally a loud, confident Gish gallop in a weakly-moderated forum turns any debate into a pie fight. I’ve never seen a really terrific off-ramp from that.

  385. 385.

    Quinerly

    @Geminid: no smoke here. Just like to be prepared. My first summer (2022) here was terrible. Smoke and haze. Those fires got as close as 40 miles away…Pecos and Las Vegas, NEW MEXICO areas. I really knew nothing then about my acreage. The people I bought from really did nothing about anything that died and never removed tumbleweeds. My easy on the eyes 40 year old Bogart and I have cut, gathered, hauled three 2 axle trailer loads of brush and tumbleweeds. In the the heat. Downing a few PBRs when need be. Has damn near killed me, but I held my own. Not bad for a little 63 year old chick. It looks beautiful. Some neighbors have tried to hire us.😎

  391. 391.

    p.a.

    @Llelldorin: I know from a science, creationism vs evolution debate, the evolution side is best off not engaging but making it’s points which in and of themselves counteract the creationist’s Gish Gallop.

    In politics… IDK if that works.

  392. 392.

    Starfish

    The only number Trump remembers is this “19 people” nonsense. Also, he is not answering anything about the cost of childcare.

  394. 394.

    UncleEbeneezer

    Y’all–& by that I mean *Democrats*–need to learn how to drive a fucking narrative.

    Yeah, Biden looked quite old & tired at the beginning. Now he’s kicking ass. Trump looks like a damn fool. Drive the god damn narrative. Be confident for once in a god damn while.

    If all you fucking tweet about for the rest of the night is that our Decent Grandpa sounded old for a 15 minutes, that’s all that’s gonna be reported on. You know how this bullshit works. Recover yourselves. Biden is kicking ass right now.

  395. 395.

    Joy in FL

    The current question is about the cost of child care. Trump is talking about firing people. Maybe he wants childcare costs to be lowered by parents firing their children.

    Trump is completely ignoring the topic of the question.

  396. 396.

    Starfish

    OMG WILL SOMEONE ANSWER THE DAMN CHILDCARE QUESTION

    Finally, Joe Biden is answering the childcare question.

    They are asking Trump the childcare question again, which he is not answering again.

  397. 397.

    Betty

    @Joy in FL: Just about every question. This is ridiculous. Just a phenomenal load of malarkey from Trump. Daniel Dale will be up all night just making the corrections.

  398. 398.

    Jess

    TPM posted:

    10:09 PM: “Never seen anger like this before.”

    Anyone know what this is about?

  400. 400.

    Mousebumples

    John put a new debate thread upstairs, as an FYI.

    Kick some ass, Joe! Let’s go, Dark Brandon!

  402. 402.

    Quinerly

    @Geminid:

    Last week I popped in Del Charro for the bar. Usually Santa Fe locals. An ex mayor who is 90 is one of my drinking buddies. Anyway, cute couple from Austin came in. He was originally from Ruidoso and was on vacation. He and his girlfriend had just evacuated his mom. The girlfriend had all these videos on her phone. Terrifying. His mom’s neighborhood is destroyed.

    Beautiful area of New Mexico. Very sad.

  404. 404.

    dimmsdale

    @Llelldorin: Actually, yeah–I think it was Mehdi Hasan who advocated picking out ONE of the Gish Gallop lies, refuting the sh*t out of it, and doing so calmly and confidently. What viewers remember is the refutation, the calm and confidence.

    I think Joe should have been MUCH better prepared for this particular Trumpian approach, and I think ALL Dem candidates should be prepped to handle it, because that’s going to be the Republican/Fascist MAGA style of debate from now on, Gish Gallop on steroids. I only hope the folks are right who’re saying only a tiny slice of voters is actually watching this, but I’m afraid it’s all our media whores are going to be talking about for the next month. Biden Old! (shoot me now)

  405. 405.

    Geminid

    @Quinerly: That’s good work as long as you don’t have to do too much for too long. I hope your pup helps out.

    There were some bad fires up near Las Vegas, last year I think. Have you heard if the vegetation is coming back

    Ed. Now I see the fires were in 2022.

  407. 407.

    Jay

    Just following the comments here, can’t watch or listen to the Felon.

    Buck up, Jackals.

  408. 408.

    Quinerly

    @Geminid: Little Vegas is flooding right now. It’s pretty terrible. Their sweet little upcoming fiesta was cancelled. The Vegas fires were in 2022. Were going strong when I finally moved in in April, 2022. I’m on the Vegas/Pecos/Glorieta side of Santa Fe.

  410. 410.

    Geminid

    @O. Felix Culpa: I probably should have said “tense.”

    And wildfires are a serious business in New Mexico. Fortunately, y’all have Governor Gryphon to coordinate the state’s response..

  411. 411.

    SenyorDave

    Biden missed badly on the golf issue.  The answer should have been “why did you spend a good portion of your presidency playing golf”.  Instead he talked about his own fucking handicap, I don’t want a president who is a good golfer.

  412. 412.

    BeautifulPlumage

    I’ll be curious to see the amount of speaking time each got. Seems like they’re letting PAB ramble a lot.

  414. 414.

    BeautifulPlumage

    @SenyorDave: ​
      yeah, that was a fumble. Should have said ” it’s well known you cheat at golf, why would anyone bother?”

  417. 417.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    Sounds like Trump started babbling at the end, and I suspect that’s the bit that count over time since babbling is “fun”.

Comments are closed.