Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

If you still can’t see these things even now, maybe politics isn’t your forte and you should stop writing about it.

This really is a full service blog.

Let the trolls come, and then ignore them. that’s the worst thing you can do to a troll.

Fight for a just cause, love your fellow man, live a good life.

Nancy smash is sick of your bullshit.

Never give a known liar the benefit of the doubt.

In after Baud. Damn.

They love authoritarianism, but only when they get to be the authoritarians.

Only Democrats have agency, apparently.

When I was faster i was always behind.

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.

Anne Laurie is a fucking hero in so many ways. ~ Betty Cracker

Is it negotiation when the other party actually wants to shoot the hostage?

Anyone who bans teaching American history has no right to shape America’s future.

Usually wrong but never in doubt

People are complicated. Love is not.

We are aware of all internet traditions.

Fight them, without becoming them!

How stupid are these people?

GOP baffled that ‘we don’t care if you die’ is not a winning slogan.

Of course you can have champagne before noon. That’s why orange juice was invented.

Historically it was a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.

I’m more christian than these people and i’m an atheist.

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101Comments

  2. 2.

    Comrade Nimrod Humperdink

    Hope you’re holding up Betty.  And yeah, the debate was painful

  3. 3.

    Rusty

    Smart move not watching, I lacked such discipline.   Trump spewed a phenomenal number of lies and just didn’t answer questions that required even an iota of policy understanding.  Joe was slow out of the gate and his voice was low and raspy.  Expect a torrent “but he’s old” articles.  I don’t think last night will make any difference, other than putting many of us one step closer to an ulcer.

  4. 4.

    JPL

    Yesterday morning Satby linked to Nazi Town USA and I just typed in Camp Siefried.   Although there is a wiki page about it, I found an article in the NYTimes that I found interesting.   It’s about the writing of the play by the same name.

    gifted link I hope

  5. 5.

    JPL

    I skipped the debate but unfortunately woke up at two and checked my texts.   ugh

    Well today is another day.

  6. 6.

    Comrade Nimrod Humperdink

    @Rusty: yeah, the core hope is that Trump’s rampant outrageous lies outweighs Biden’s stage presence.  No way that happens with the press, because theater criticism is what they do, but for reachable voters that’s certainly possible.  It may not end up making much difference at all, but it didn’t do anything for my mental health

  7. 7.

    Bruce K in ATH-GR

    I slept through it – it was at stupid o’clock my time – but maybe I should have paid attention to my bad dreams, which woke me up this morning while it was still last night back in the US.

    Maybe after work I should just avoid social media completely and load up Wolfenstein. Y’know, do the right thing to Nazis until they’re more liquid than solid.

  8. 8.

    Darkrose

    Early access for the new Final Fantasy XIV expansion dropped today. I’ll have plenty to keep me from obsessively following politics.

  10. 10.

    lowtechcyclist

    Covid sent me to bed early last night, so I missed the debate entirely.

    Sounds like it could have gone better for our side. Such is life.

  11. 11.

    Mousebumples

    Obama lost the first debate to Romney for the reelect.

    First debates got incumbents are difficult. A cold, and dealing with a stutter, didn’t help, granted, but I’m not changing any of my priors.

    Biden is old, but he knows things and has a great team. I’m still for #BidenHarris and I hope Dems close ranks like Republicans do.

  16. 16.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @MagdaInBlack: Say what? Details details, we’ll cross that bridge when we get to it.

    eta: I didn’t watch either. As far as all the panic this AM, as I said over at OTB just a few minutes ago, Let’s all pull a Jonestown.

  17. 17.

    Another Scott

    TCFFG recycled rhetoric – word for word – from January 6. “You won’t have a country any more.” He did his “you just tell them and they believe – they just do” nonstop lying.

    I’m sure that a lot of normies noticed.

    The press is primed to push panic and hot takes because it pumps up “engagement” and clicks and money. It’s a sugar high and has to be continuously fed.

    Biden did fine. Sure he stumbled a couple of times – he’s Biden. But he pushed back hard and called out the lies. TCFFG has finally entered the FO phase. He’s not going to like it at all.

    Hang in there, everyone. Eyes on the prizes.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  22. 22.

    Al Rennick

    @MagdaInBlack:

    Step aside for whom?

    Gretchen Whitmer, Gina Raimondo, Maura Healey, J. B. Pritzker, Gavin Newsom, Cory Booker, Chris Murphy, Josh Shapiro, Jared Polis, or Kirsten Gillibrand

  23. 23.

    satby

    As I said yesterday, I never watch debates because they aren’t debates, the moderation is uniformly awful, and the hot take results are just as awful. Last night was the same as all the rest. My Twitter feed is full of reactions like Heather Cox Richardson‘s, and in the long term I doubt it changed anyone’s mind either way. Since this place turns into thumbsucker central over stuff like this, I stayed off of here too.

  26. 26.

    mrmoshpotato

    Congratulating myself for last night’s decision to skip the debate and turn in early. Woof!

    But you missed an absolute shitshow with a lying, orange shitstain!

    Congrats!

  27. 27.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Rusty:

    Joe was slow out of the gate and his voice was low and raspy.  Expect a torrent “but he’s old” articles.
     

    Yup.

  28. 28.

    Lapassionara

    @OzarkHillbilly: since I’m the same age as Biden, give or take a few weeks, and since I am confident in my mental abilities, I find those calls to be personally insulting.

    I am trying to start a list of all the jaw-dropping moments from the years Trump was in office so that I can be better prepared to talk to any undecideds who I happen to meet. Can you guys help think of more? Here is what I have so far:

    The American Carnage Speech

    The lies about attendance at the inauguration

    The cabinet appointments

    the cabinet meetings that started with secretaries saying how wonderful Trump is (creepy)

    the failure to go to the cemetery in France to honor WWI soldiers because of rain

    The film of Trump pushing other world leaders out of the way at the G7

    The various meetings with Putin with no one from the US present and no resulting notes

    The meeting with Putin in Helsinki after which Putin looked like the Cat that swallowed the canary and Trump looked like a whipped puppy

    The insistence on making a personal visit to North Korea, and the subsequent love affair with its leader

    the speech to the UN at which delegates laughed at him

    the failure to provide effective leadership when the pandemic hit (except for authorizing vaccine development)

    Allowing Jared and Ivanka to work in the White House although they were not eligible for security clearances.

    Allowing Jared and Ivanka to profit off of their White House work

    Trying to overturn the results of the 2000 election

    fomenting an insurrection on Jan 6.

    taking boxes of state secrets with him when he left the White House

    im sure there is more.

  33. 33.

    Spanky

    The FYWP (“Democracy dies on our watch”) is also all-in on “Biden is terrible and should step aside. Oh, and Trump lied a bit. ”

    Chill. It’s still a long way until November.

  34. 34.

    satby

    @OzarkHillbilly: I read the Guardian too, but they have never got over their butthurt about Bernie being rejected twice by Democratic voters and that’s colored every story they do about both Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden. (Or should I write coloured?)

  35. 35.

    ascap_scab

    They were having a funeral down the street from me. I came home to watch the debate. I should have gone to the funeral.

    There is much to hate Libertarians for, but the one thing they have right is they get to vote for “None of the Above”.

  37. 37.

    Spanky

    @Spanky: Relatedly, the Post also has an article titled

    My brother poops four times a day.  Is this normal? Your poop questions answered here.

  38. 38.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Al Rennick:

    Step aside for whom?

    Gretchen Whitmer, Gina Raimondo, Maura Healey, J. B. Pritzker, Gavin Newsom, Cory Booker, Chris Murphy, Josh Shapiro, Jared Polis, or Kirsten Gillibrand

    You’re kidding me, right?

    First of all, there’s a rather major name missing from your list.

    Second, some of these people, I know I’ve heard the names but I’d have to Google who they are.  I really don’t know who Josh Shapiro or Maura Healey are.

    Third, some of these people are a hard NO. Gina Raimondo? Really????  As a recently retired Census employee, I have more than a few words to say about her performance as Secretary of Commerce. And besides that, what’s she done besides represent Rhode Island in the House? You’re going to put her on your short list, but not Kamala Harris? AYFKM??

    But the big thing is, no you don’t open the nomination to chaos this close to the election.  It would be one thing if everyone was saying, “he ought to step aside and let Kamala step up,” and while that’s exactly what they should be saying, it’s exactly what they’re NOT.  So fuhgeddaboutit.

  39. 39.

    Another Scott

    @Al Rennick: Why let people who don’t want Democrats to win decide how Democrats should run a campaign??

    Eyes on the prizes.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  40. 40.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Lapassionara:

    The meeting with Putin in Helsinki after which Putin looked like the Cat that swallowed the canary and Trump looked like a whipped puppy

    We need billboards out there with that pic and the caption “our next President.”  Might scare a few people.

  42. 42.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Lapassionara:

    I am trying to start a list of all the jaw-dropping moments from the years Trump was in office so that I can be better prepared to talk to any undecideds who I happen to meet. 

    Dump’s COVID Fuck Ups

    Brought to you by The Professional Left.

    Thank you driftglass and bluegal!

  44. 44.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    @lowtechcyclist:

    there’s a rather major name missing from your list.

     I know, right. How can anyone leave Taylor Swift off the list.

  45. 45.

    mrmoshpotato

    @satby:

    I read the Guardian too, but they have never got over their butthurt about Bernie being rejected twice by Democratic voters 

    Those sad, sad sacks.

  47. 47.

    EarthWindFire

    @Mousebumples: I hope Dems close ranks like Republicans do

    Little sign of that so far. Which hurts us a lot more than a bad debate performance imo. I’m so tired of Dem panic. We beat ourselves that way.

  50. 50.

    JWR

    I actually looked at the Fox News site, and they’re mostly fixated on debunking the “liberal lie” that Trump said of neo-Nazis that there were “very fine people on both sides”. They link, or so I thought, to “the liberal” Snopes, but that was just a sop to get me to click on yet another Fox story about how it was a lie. So I went to the source, and lo and behold, they did, including an editor’s note:

    No, Trump Did Not Call Neo-Nazis and White Supremacists ‘Very Fine People’

    Editors’ Note: Some readers have raised the objection that this fact check appears to assume Trump was correct in stating that there were “very fine people on both sides” of the Charlottesville incident. That is not the case. This fact check aimed to confirm what Trump actually said, not whether what he said was true or false. For the record, virtually every source that covered the Unite the Right debacle concluded that it was conceived of, led by and attended by white supremacists, and that therefore Trump’s characterization was wrong.

    How the article ends:

    In sum, while Trump did say that there were “very fine people on both sides,” he also specifically noted that he was not talking about neo-Nazis and white supremacists and said they should be “condemned totally.” Therefore, we have rated this claim “False.”

    Shorter Snopes: Yes he did but no he didn’t, so we rate this claim False. Thing is, he didn’t call for condemning the neo-Nazis until asked about them by a reporter. As for Snopes rating, I give it a hard FALSE!

  51. 51.

    Patricia Kayden

    @Lapassionara: Calling African nations “sh*thole”.

    Calling Neo Nazis in Charlottesville “good people”.

    Referring to four House Democratic women of color as foreigners.

    Calling Senator McCain a loser. In fact, disparaging military members as a whole and not wanting to visit a cemetery for them in France.

    Attacking a Gold Star family because they criticized him.
    Asking why Haitian refugees were allowed into the U.S. versus ones from Scandinavian countries.

    Calling protesting Black football players “sons of bitches”.

    Disparaging BLM protesters after Floyd’s murder.

    Just a few I can think of.

  52. 52.

    TBone

    @Another Scott: 👍

    Heather Cox Richardson quotes Monique Pressley:

    The proof of Biden’s ability to run the country is the fact that he is running it. Successfully. Not a debate performance against a pathological lying sociopath.”

    The corporate oligarch-owned MSM can go fuck themselves.  President Biden’s track record of success against the intractable oppositional defiance disorder of the cult speaks much more elegantly than one 90 minute debate.

  53. 53.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    In a prior thread I noted how bad first debates in 1984, 2012, 2016 didn’t effect the outcome of the election.

    I completely forgot the worst first debate performance ever was by W. in 2004.  That was the infamous “you forgot Poland” debacle. And it had no lasting impact.

  59. 59.

    MomSense

    @satby:

    As soon as there is a particular woman at the top of the list they won’t have a problem with the other women just THAT woman.

  61. 61.

    BretH

    I thought the “debate” was as horrible as it could have been in all the ways people have mentioned here. I turned it off partway through (after Biden woke up a little). And I was pretty distraught.

    But surprisingly, reading the comments in last nights thread actually helped. I’m still unhappy but not freaking out.

    Still, baffled that whoever was in charge of prettifying Biden took a look after they were done and thought “we’re done, he looks great!”

  62. 62.

    TBone

    The President has stood by the middle class, unions, blue collar workers, people of color, LGBTQ+, and the most vulnerable people in our nation: our children. I’ll not desert him simply because he had a bad night.

  63. 63.

    HinTN

    @TBone:

    The proof of Biden’s ability to run the country is the fact that he is running it. Successfully. Not a debate performance against a pathological lying sociopath.

    Exactly right. I’m with @Another Scott:

    Eyes on the prizes.

    WaterGirl has got us targets of opportunity. This crowd has spoken of many other less monetary ways thi engage. Go get it done.

  65. 65.

    jowriter

    @TBone: Agreed.  President Biden did not have a great night. So what?  He’s had a great presidency despite the firehose of garbage emanating daily from the opposition and their minions. Onward, people.

  67. 67.

    satby

    Since he was mentioned up thread:
    Driftglass , Guardian of Inconvenient History

    @Mr_Electrico

    Bedwetters had a good night tonight

  70. 70.

    The Thin Black Duke

    I’m so glad I stopped paying attention to the idiotic talking heads on TV pretending to be journalists.

  71. 71.

    MomSense

    The worst thing about this is that the debates, really the whole campaign process as it has d/evolved has nothing to do with what it takes to be a good president.  You need a president who is quiet, calm, reasonable, able to discern, able to process information, collaborative, etc.  They should have good people skills and a thick skin so they can work well with advisors and take critical feedback.  They need to be curious and have a solid knowledge of history. Biden is great at the actual job.

  73. 73.

    kalakal

    @satby:

    There’s an take that resonates with me from that article

    About the effect of tonight’s events, former Republican operative Stuart Stevens warned: “Don’t day trade politics. It’s a sucker’s game. A guy from Queens out on bail bragged about overturning Roe v. Wade, said in public he didn’t have sex with a porn star, defended tax cuts for billionaires, defended Jan. 6th. and called America the worst country in the world. That guy isn’t going to win this race

    In two weeks the debate will be remembered through memes and clips and TFG provided a million clips that can be used to hammer him

  74. 74.

    TBone

    July 1 and July 11 are coming.  May the justice meted out be commensurate to the crimes, be swift, and show no fear or favor.  New York, the nation lifts its eyes to you.  Thank you for your service!

  77. 77.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Mousebumples:

    Obama lost the first debate to Romney for the reelect.

    First debates got incumbents are difficult. A cold, and dealing with a stutter, didn’t help, granted, but I’m not changing any of my priors.

    Biden is old, but he knows things and has a great team. I’m still for #BidenHarris and I hope Dems close ranks like Republicans do.

    Yup.  Per many others, our Failed Corporate Media will predictably spin this (I love the reference to them basically being theater critics) and it’s Biden/Harris team’s job to mitigate that as best they can.

    CNN lost last night, that’s one angle everybody should be hitting 24/7.

  78. 78.

    sab

    I think there are a lot of reporters and pundits out there that are pissed off that they are no longer near the inner circle, because this White House administration hires people who are more  interested in doing their jobs well and working together. Quality hires are good for government but bad for reporters.

  79. 79.

    lowtechcyclist

    @MomSense:

    The worst thing about this is that the debates, really the whole campaign process as it has d/evolved has nothing to do with what it takes to be a good president. You need a president who is quiet, calm, reasonable, able to discern, able to process information, collaborative, etc. They should have good people skills and a thick skin so they can work well with advisors and take critical feedback. They need to be curious and have a solid knowledge of history. Biden is great at the actual job.

    As others have said, the media evaluate Biden against the standard of a hypothetical ideal President, while their standard for Trump is whether he managed to not take a shit on stage.

  80. 80.

    Frankensteinbeck

    Trump said that everyone wanted Roe vs Wade overturned.  He might as well have shot himself in the face.

  81. 81.

    TBone

    Reminder:

    The small number of oligarchs that own the MSM will destroy democracy because taxes.

    President Biden has done more for anti-trust and tax fairness than any other president in my lifetime.

    Clicks and eyeballs.

  82. 82.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @kalakal:

    In two weeks the debate will be remembered through memes and clips and TFG provided a million clips that can be used to hammer him.

    Yup. When GQP water carriers like Stevens are basically not carrying water for the nominee, that sends a message.

    And what satby said in #23.

  83. 83.

    MomSense

    I think the Biden campaign made a major blunder in determining the rules of the debate.  They should have asked for town halls because Biden’s strength is his ability to connect with actual humans.  He listens well and his empathy and decency shine when he is able to interact.
    UGH. I doubt there will be a second debate.  Trump has no reason to do another one since the media will spin that he won the first.

  85. 85.

    lowtechcyclist

    @mrmoshpotato:

    @lowtechcyclist: Feel better soon.

    Thanks! I’m actually feeling pretty good this morning. My doc gave me a prescription for Paxlovid yesterday, and maybe it’s kicked in.  I wouldn’t want to go on a 20-mile bike ride, but I think I’m good for normal activity.  Yesterday, it was a real effort just to go up a flight of stairs.

  87. 87.

    Betty

    Gavin Newsome had the best response to all the hand wringing. Hold steady. He is a good President. Stop asking silly questions, journalists.

  88. 88.

    Spanky

    @lowtechcyclist:

    while their standard for Trump is whether he managed to not take a shit on stage.

    And frankly,  we’re not sure about that one. Thankfully.

  90. 90.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Fair Economist: Definitely go see Akhnaten if you ever have the chance. It’s amazing. The Met in HD might rebroadcast their brilliant performance of it from several years ago at some point. If so, run, don’t walk to see it.

  91. 91.

    Ironcity

    @Spanky: Appropriate subject matter for the Post.  I got rid of the dead tree subscription years ago when I found the plastic bags they delivered in were no longer strong enough to use for picking up when walking the dogs.  And that was all it was good for even then.

  92. 92.

    cmorenc

    What was the actual Pelosi quote/ context where Trump claimed she said “it (failure to stop the 1/6 invasion of the capitol) was all my fault”?  Trump had to either been fabricating or grossly warping something out of context.  In any case, he incited the mob and he was the one with power to call in the DC National Guard and ask for assistance from Virginia, and he did nothing for 3 hrs until it was plain the coup attempt against the EV count had failed.

  93. 93.

    Skippy-san

    I am sick of all the Democrats calling on Biden to step down? Who will replace him? And who can unite the party? We live in an America that has idiots who think Jill Stein is acceptable. We live in an America where 45% of the people are so stupid they support a worthless traitor who will destroy democracy.

    Biden could shoot Trump on 5th Avenue, and I would still vote for him.

  94. 94.

    Chigail

    Last night I went to Suffs on Broadway. It was a great show!  A theater full of like-minded people went home happy.

    now let’s get to work.

  95. 95.

    Ironcity

    @lowtechcyclist: Do we know what it takes to be a good president?  Or even a president, not necessarily good?  Is there a position description for President that has any substance to it?

    If we the people are hiring a president, which is really what the election is, the debates and campaigns as a whole are the job interview.  I know who I wouldn’t hire.

  96. 96.

    kindness

    I was just over at LGM and read another piece by one of their principles that Joe Biden needs to step down.  Wtf!  And they call themselves liberals.  They aren’t Rose Twitter even if the results of spewing their bile is the same.  We need another name for that beast.

  97. 97.

    Quadrillipede

    Only Johnny Unbeatable can save us now! Please continue staring at CNN in despair instead of driving an ice pick through the eye of Grump’s political future.

    My goodness…

  98. 98.

    Ruckus

    @satby:

    I don’t watch either. Our politics are now so divided that it really is only a choice between reasonable/good and full on shit storm. Great? Ain’t gunna happen.

    I see the republican side is going after their first, and last, hit in the 9th inning. They have shown us absolutely nothing in the last few years but utter bullshit and desperation. They are looking to build a country that they think possibly existed over 100-150 yrs ago but really never did. They want something that most people would find out to be horrible if it happened today and it is because their heads are located in their output ports and/or they have drunk the entire vial of stupid. History rarely goes in reverse and it is not likely to now. Their world is dissolving, brought on by their demand that the world must revolve backwards – against time, physics and reality. This is what political reality and losing looks like. This country is attempting to be what it was envisioned it should look like, what it can look like, what it should look like – and that takes power and stature away from the hateful, the racists, the pointy white hats, the robber barons, the rich at the destruction of others. This country was founded upon equality, that skin color, money, hate and smart and stupidity were not the outer boundaries of society and propriety. It has taken a long time to get to this point, the point of actually making this country what it was founded to be. A country for all of us, not just the rich, pale folk. Will it get there? I sure as hell hope to see it in my lifetime. It’s possible but we are seeing those who really do not want to lose all that they have absconded with losing, and they likely won’t go easy or peacefully, even as they would still be every thing but the one thing they think they deserve – prestige for being white and wealthy. This country was not founded upon that prestige, it was founded upon equality of humanity, not inequality of money.

  99. 99.

    Ruckus

    @Skippy-san:

    Biden could shoot Trump on 5th Avenue, and I would still vote for him.

    That isn’t how it works. And it shouldn’t be. Even if he deserves to be shot. (he doesn’t)

    I don’t disagree that trump actually is shitforbrains, in all the possible definitions of shit. But, just because they do not want to play by the rules, we should want that, because that is how countries work, especially when everyone is supposed to be equal. Equal cannot be defined by money, a name, societal position, skin color, genitals. It is defined by each breathing or soon to be breathing individual. By each and every one of us. We are this county. Not our bank accounts, not how many houses we own, not our skin color or lack thereof, not our spoken language, not our cars/homes or lack thereof, but by our individual beings – our breathing, heart beating, 2 legs or none, our imperfections, not our golf club memberships.

    I get WHY you say this, but this isn’t the correct way. We need/have to be better – all of us. Sure we are humans, in all the good and bad ways. But don’t play their game and call it a win.

    Be better. It actually isn’t all that difficult. And it is better.

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