Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

The frogs are rarely mistaken.

It could be worse. Vance could have said “post-menopausal sows.” Waiting for that audiotape to surface.

Oh FFS you might as well trust a 6-year-old with a flamethrower.

This country desperately needs a functioning Fourth Estate.

We’re not going back!

Hot air and ill-informed banter

The words do not have to be perfect.

If you tweet it in all caps, that makes it true!

Stamping your little feets and demanding that they see how important you are? Not working anymore.

Prediction: the gop will rethink its strategy of boycotting future committees.

Republicans don’t want a speaker to lead them; they want a hostage.

Can we lighten up on the doomsday scenarios?

It’s a good piece. click on over. but then come back!!

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

Many life forms that would benefit from greater intelligence, sadly, do not have it.

Second rate reporter says what?

A lot of Dems talk about what the media tells them to talk about. Not helpful.

I did not have this on my fuck 2024 bingo card.

Relentless negativity is not a sign that you are more realistic.

Incompetence, fear, or corruption? why not all three?

“Let’s not pretend [Trump] wants to engage in high-minded discourse.”

We know you aren’t a Democrat but since you seem confused let me help you.

A sufficient plurality of insane, greedy people can tank any democratic system ever devised, apparently.

The most dangerous place for a black man in America is in a white man’s imagination.

You are here: Home / Elections 2024 / What Mistermix Said…And THIS

What Mistermix Said…And THIS

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We have a fight ahead of us and Biden hasn’t given up on us, why should we give up on him?

 

Doomerism is how we fail to fight for ourselves & one another.
It is how authoritarians win. Let’s try to fight the doom.

Michael Mann and Timothy D Snyder

Reader Interactions

238Comments

  1. 1.

    japa21

    We have a fight ahead of us and Biden hasn’t given up on us, why should we give up on him?

    Exactly.

  2. 2.

    Mike E

    The pie filter is smoking, and not because of hot out of the oven pie (god, what I would give for some of that right now, yum!)

  3. 3.

    Mustang Bobby

    This is what drives me crazy about the Democrats.  Biden has one bad night and they roll over like a semi on oil-slicked roads.  Meanwhile, Trump has 34 felony convictions, a shitload of criminal and civil indictments, the morals of an alley cat (to coin a phrase), and his minions are still behind him.

    Fuck that shit.  Why isn’t it the other way around?

  6. 6.

    Scout211

    Thank you TaMara. It good to hear that Biden is being real and acknowledging his performance wasn’t his best but then quickly compares himself to the felon. The contrast between the two of them is stark.

    And we have another thing to feel good about.  Let us celebrate the one good SCOTUS decision this morning.

    WASHINGTON — Former Trump adviser Steve Bannon must report to prison by Monday after the Supreme Court rejected his last-minute bid to stave off his four-month sentence for defying subpoenas from the House Jan. 6 committee.

    Ha ha ha.

  7. 7.

    Elizabelle

    The whole thing is so predictable, and so sickening.

    The LA Times, which I generally like, sent out an email:

    Biden resists allies’ calls to exit race after debate performance:  “I know I’m not a young man”

    WTF needs “allies” like that?

    Has a strong whiff of “Lucky Man Sees Friends Die,” which is allegedly an actual headline from many years back.

    I am taking a news break.  Delightful.

  13. 13.

    Geminid

    My Atlanta friend panicked last night. I talked him down a little bit; then he watched Biden’s speech in Raleigh today and now he feels a lot better.

  18. 18.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @TBone: Denver got a few library branches back open on Sundays. New funding after the COVID closures and some big referenda we had to vote on. It’s a lifeline…

  21. 21.

    Baud

    @Geminid:

    he watched Biden’s speech in Raleigh today and now he feels a lot better.

     

    I was comforted by Biden’s candid acknowledgement that he has never had sex with a porn star.

  23. 23.

    bbleh

    Ackshwally this is all part of a diabolical plot to give Republicans a false sense of confidence — make them think Biden is on his last legs, so they slack off and then WHAM! he AMBUSHES them at the last minute!  How do we know this? He was just fine afterwards!  They weren’t prepping him with facts and policies up on the mountain, no no!  They were coaching him in how to look feeble!  Ohhh, there are wheels within wheels here people!!!  We’ve GOT to make sure this message gets out to EVERYONE in the MAGAverse!!

  24. 24.

    Dagaetch

    I removed Vox from my RSS feed today. Been thinking about it for a while, but after they wrote like 10 articles today about how Joe Must Go, I’m done.

  29. 29.

    Captain C

    @TBone: As I said to a friend, we’re going to find out that Eric Adams has an entire roomful of (unread) unreturned NYPL and BPL books in his New Jersey condo.  My friend replied that there’s probably a ton of Amish-themed romance among them.  I agreed, and said we’d find at least a few dinosaur-Amish crossovers in the pile.

  35. 35.

    Captain C

    @TBone: More seriously, though most of the recent mayors seem to have hated libraries (Di Blasio being the exception), the city council LOVES them, and never goes along with the proposed stupid, excessive cuts.  Back when my band of librarians was active (Lost In The Stacks), we played at some library day rallies at City Hall Park.  The year that Bloomberg tried to cut our budget by a 3rd, over 20 council members lined up to tell him essentially to fuck off*, their communities desperately needed those libraries at full strength.

    *Or as close as they felt they could come as NYC politicians.  They were legit not happy.

  37. 37.

    gene108

    @Mustang Bobby:

    This is what drives me crazy about the Democrats. Biden has one bad night and they roll over like a semi on oil-slicked roads. Meanwhile, Trump has 34 felony convictions, a shitload of criminal and civil indictments, the morals of an alley cat (to coin a phrase), and his minions are still behind him.

    I wish I knew. I think for some people being proven right is more important than winning.

  40. 40.

    Gloria DryGarden

    If I were allowed, I’m in the mood to go drown some voodoo dolls.

    It’s beneath my pay grade, not into the karma involved, not allowed…

    It’s the thought that counts

    2 weeks until July 11

  42. 42.

    TBone

    PSA for comfort and inspiration:

    Casablanca is on TCM at 6:15 eastern time.

    Bogey. Bergman.  Henreid. Raines.  Stellar others also too.

    Fuck the Nazis!

    Berlin Express is on right now.

  43. 43.

    JerseyBeard

    Convicted Felon Donald John Mountain Dew Trump is an even bigger omnishambles of a human being today than he was yesterday.

    That is all.

  46. 46.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    @Gloria DryGarden: How bad is the karma if the voodoo doll is directed at truly terrible people? Do the 2 wrongs just cancel each other out?

  48. 48.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @gene108: having to be right is a really bizarre place, that I’ve learned goes with anger and opposition and feeling stuck. It’s 

    Not as effective as say, looking for common ground, reaching for cooperation, trying to build something together.

    I don’t think you can even cook dinner, while trying to be right. Even on an electric grill…

  52. 52.

    Ishiyama

    Abe Lincoln said it: Today I raise this flag, it is up to the people to keep it flying. Joe Biden, or whoever, doesn’t win because of his particular qualities, he wins because we make him the winner. (And Lincoln looked like toast in July & August of 1864). I didn’t watch the debate, I can tell you everything that the Democratic Party has gotten wrong since 1968, but Joe Biden will win, g-d dammit!

  56. 56.

    karen marie

    @gene108: I don’t know that it’s “Democrats.”  Seems more like “professional” Democrats who are the problem.

  57. 57.

    Quadrillipede

    @Dagaetch: Good call. I haven’t read them in months and I could use a free slot in my RSS reader for an actual news service.

  58. 58.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:

    Bless you for asking this question. So soothing…

    One would think. One certainly thinks of so many versions of a  wrong to cancel out another. One could make a movie of all our ideas.

    I can’t. But if you’re called to it, I’ll thank you for taking one for the team.

    I see him in his orange jumpsuit, Donald joker Jrump. He can jump off Humpty dumpty’s wall, Please.

    Insert link to song, “jump”

    I think I had better go wring a towel until my arms quiver and I can imagine ripping the towel in two. Not sending anything out, mind you. Just relieving the fucking rage and tension.

    Btw, folks, all this anger we’re feeling? Bad for the liver. Don’t drink on top of that, and hurt yourself worse. Darn it.

  59. 59.

    Redshift

    I thought my stomach was feeling really anxious this morning, but it turned out it was just the cheap pizza I ate at the campaign office last night didn’t agree with me. It’s weird how hard it is to perceive cause and effect with that; it’s happened to me before.

  61. 61.

    Eyeroller

    @Dagaetch: ​Why should the press even think they have a say here? (Rhetorical question, obviously.) Aren’t they supposed to be “objective”? Advocating for a candidate to withdraw suggests they are taking a side (not always the one they seem to be taking…)

  62. 62.

    Redshift

    @karen marie:

    I don’t know that it’s “Democrats.” Seems more like “professional” Democrats who are the problem.

    Seems to me it’s mostly pundit disease. Most of the people who give quotes like this seem to be “Democratic consultants” who haven’t actually consulted for anyone in years, and former electeds who now do tv for a living. In other words, pundits in all but name.

  66. 66.

    Delk

    48 million watched the debate last night down from 73 million in 2020 and 84 million in 2016. Unfortunately some of the 48 million have shit filled pants.

  67. 67.

    zhena gogolia

    @Delk: I’ll admit, I freaked out last night when I heard Joe speak. I expected him to sound the way he does today in NC — not a young hunk, but a with-it, passionate old man. I’m glad to see it wasn’t a permanent change. But why did it have to coincide with the first 20 minutes of that goddamned debate?

  70. 70.

    Van Buren

    The same people yelling the loudest to dump Joe would be the first to complain about whoever replaced him.

  71. 71.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @Dagaetch: right? Let’s just divide everyone up, and sow discontent, and shatter into so many factions we can’t unite on anything. Cool idea. Who are they working for, again?

  72. 72.

    piratedan

    part of me gets the freak out, because after the last three years of watching JB kill it in public, both at home and overseas, seeing him underperform was shocking.  It made you question whether we Dems had been the ones living in a bubble of our own bias.  DJT comes out lying forcefully just like he always does and that initial impression colors an awful lot of what follows.

    So yeah, I get the freak out and we all understand the importance of this election, I mean WE GET IT, so anything that makes realizing that desired outcome more difficult sucks; because we already know that there’s a whole Christo-fascist/bond villain academy wannabees/corporate vultures axis of cruelty that are working against us.

    Don’t despair, most of us are righting ourselves and steeling our resolve in addition to the girding of loins.  As for the doom crew that descended from the lurking depths to wallow in our collective moment of despair, a nice healthy cup of shut the fuck up and make our various thermometers move would seem to be in order.

  74. 74.

    Yutsano

    I want you to imagine something. Every single proposed rule by any federal agency will get litigated to death regardless of any “inconvenience” to corporations. There are over 2000 federal agencies. The federal courts are about to get hit by a deluge of lawsuits that will overwhelm the system so bad that decisions may routinely take decades. All because regulation gave Harlan Crow a sad so he bought off a justice to make this happen. Get ready for absolute destruction of the federal court system

    EDIT: And in that time frame the rule will be stuck in temporary hold hell. The agency should just say fuck it and do the rules anyway regardless of the injunction.

  76. 76.

    Sister Golden Bear

    I realize that it’ll never happen, but I wish Biden would announce that his administration won’t abide by the Chevron decision, nor the “overthrowing the government is OK” decision, due to Thomas’ conflicts of interest that make the decision illegitimate.

    Make them own it, make them rehear it.

  77. 77.

    Yutsano

    @zhena gogolia: But why did it have to coincide with the first 20 minutes of that goddamned debate?

    The cold meds took longer than anticipated to kick in?

  78. 78.

    different-church-lady

    @Mike E:

    The pie filter is smoking

    I can’t tell anything for certain, but here and some other places sure smell like psyops.​

  80. 80.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @NotMax: mother fuckers. I mean daughter fuckers. I mean country fuckers.

    Oh gosh how to artistically say it, about these guys, and the CNN  not doing anything about the lies and BS they didn’t interrupt, until the damage was done

    Ill-advised, ill-intended destructive treacherous betrayers of fellow humans…

    I’m sure others can do better. If only words could break these bad things and turn events to good..

  81. 81.

    BC in Illinois

    I have a couple of books on the Lincoln-Douglas debates, including the transcripts of all of the debates. It shows Lincoln at his best and (Charleston) not at his best.
    it would be interesting if someone were to put together a transcript of last night’s debate. (Half the time of the 3-hour L-D debates.) Not the performance, the words. And then analyze the damn words! Annotate it all.
    Yeah, President Biden was often inarticulate or garbled. But Trump was a consistent mish-mash of lies and gibberish. Biden’s words can be explained. Trump’s lies cannot be defended.

  82. 82.

    Gloria DryGarden

    Hey, so what qualities do you want to invoke and strengthen, for the USA, the world? A lot thinking about elections, USA, prevent dictatorship, but, whatever applies, that you want to create, invite, call forth? Just looking for a more positive angle for my focus.

    (much as I enjoy being pissed off, and sharing bitter pissed off comments  w like minded folk, I’m running out of darts)

    Please brainstorm w me

    –A

  84. 84.

    different-church-lady

    I’m very surprised, in a comforting way, about how much defiance I’m seeing.

  85. 85.

    karen marie

    @zhena gogolia:  I am still baffled why he didn’t address it before answering the first question.  He and his people had to know he sounded bad.

  86. 86.

    Dangerman

    @Gloria DryGarden: I have a procedure on 7/11. I’ll be knocked out. Probably admitted. It may be 7/12 before I hear the news. Last one again (absent those on deserted Island like Tom Hanks and Wilson).

    Poor Wilson.

  89. 89.

    Another Scott

    Meanwhile, … WhiteHouse.gov:

    JUNE 28, 2024
    Statement from Vice President Kamala Harris on the Supreme Court Ruling in Loper Bright

    People throughout our Nation should be able to count on their government to ensure that our air and water are clean, health care is accessible and affordable, financial markets are sound, products are safe, and workers are not exploited on the job. Courts have long deferred to federal experts to make these ideals a reality.

    Unfortunately, today’s Supreme Court decision sides with powerful special interests who want to roll back commonsense rules that protect Americans. President Biden and I will continue to do everything in our power to protect the American people and ensure that every person in our country can thrive.

    # # #

    (Emphasis added.)

    (Loper Bright is the Chevron case.)

    I take that as an indication that even expanding the SCOTUS and similar reforms is not off the table. They’re going to do what they can. That means we must do what we can to have them do that in the future.

    People want to vote in consequential elections. They want their vote to matter. This is one of those elections that really, actually, does matter.

    Let’s win this thing!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  90. 90.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Mike E:

    The pie filter is smoking, and not because of hot out of the oven pie (god, what I would give for some of that right now, yum!)

    Sorry, the kiddo’s already eaten most of the raspberry cobbler I made this afternoon.  (He was kind enough to leave me a little bit for dessert, though!)

  92. 92.

    different-church-lady

    WaPo front page as of the moment:

    1) Justices strike down obstruction charge used for hundreds of Jan. 6 rioters

    [Particularly dramatic pic of the capitol on Jan 6]

    2) Court sharply curbs federal agency power, overturning Chevron precedent

    3) Biden rallies boisterous crowd as he tries to tamp down debate concerns (emphasis mine)

    I hope that’s a sign of a fast turn-around from this morning.

  93. 93.

    Chris Johnson

    @different-church-lady: Of course. This is the moment for psyops to push as hard as they possibly could, all masks dropped, no holds barred. This is a good time to watch what people do.

  94. 94.

    FDRLincoln

    Buck up people. Focus. Biden looked and sounded just fine today while campaigning. The negative of the debate is the bad effect on Dem morale. Trump was as crazy as ever last night and did not win any new voters to his side.

    This was a lost opportunity for Biden but I disagree with the calls to dump him. The GOP is in lockstep behind a convicted felon and adjudicated rapist. Biden has a bad hour and Dems are panicking. STOP.

    People wanted to dump the burned out and exhausted Lincoln in 1864. If they had, McClellan would have won and the Union would have died.

    Any energy spent panicking only helps Trump. We have got to stay on target.

  95. 95.

    different-church-lady

    @Another Scott: ​
      Take it further: “Republicans are against clean air! They’re against clean water! They’re against health care you can afford! They’re against protecting you from companies that try to rip you off!”

    And if you’re feeling cute you can throw in that they’re against rainbows and in favor of killing dogs, because both those things are actually true.

  96. 96.

    Chief Oshkosh

    I have never watched one of these campaign stops all the way through. WOWEE WOW WOW! If you have the time, I highly encourage you to watch this one. It starts here:

    https://www.youtube.com/live/8bfx-AFff6s?si=0AjAntTJl-7uZDOB

    If you only have 5 minutes, start here:

    https://www.youtube.com/live/8bfx-AFff6s?si=q5Dd-9S9MfVsHh-G&t=2471

    If you just have a minute, start here (and remember, this is after he’s been at the podium for a loooong time!):

    https://www.youtube.com/live/8bfx-AFff6s?si=xoeDWpb3Guyuyf5W&t=2767

    I guess this is what they call a good old-fashioned barn burner!

  98. 98.

    Bupalos

    @gene108: I wish I knew. I think for some people being proven right is more important than winning.

    As with all things politics these days, I encourage folks whenever they are talking about developments in politics in the U.S.and making theories on them, to take the time to sample reactions and developments more globally. It can help you break out of errors of provincialism which sometimes border on conspiracy theory.

    Biden didn’t just have a bad night with a cold that the nefarious MSM is going to blow out of proportion. He shocked people. He shocked his own people. In Britain and Germany and France and India the reaction is WTF??! Neither of those guys looked like remotely able candidates, and the contest itself looks damaging to democracy. Betting markets made huge moves towards Trump. This isn’t a media conspiracy or people wanting to be right in online arguments. Biden showed a side of himself we haven’t seen and have to pray we don’t continue to see.

    And yes, we can say it’s just one debate, and just a debate and those don’t matter, or whatever. To some extent that all is true. But the new reality is that “this is something that can happen with this guy” and “maybe he can’t be let off teleprompter.” Which, yeah, people this age can have really bad moments, and it’s very destabilizing to feel the weight of things that hang on the question of whether Joe’s cognition and ability to communicate shows up at any given moment.

    On the other hand, I think it also shows how quickly shoes can drop here. Trump is also very old and hereditarily linked to Alzheimers and of course to just wild swings and insane behavior. I’m inclined to say Biden’s chances right now took a mammoth hit, from a coin flip to a hail mary, when we were fully expecting an improvement of those chances. Of course that’s getting a screetch machine going. But the election isn’t right now. There’s time for things to go right and for other shoes will drop.

  99. 99.

    Baud

    @FDRLincoln:

    People wanted to dump the burned out and exhausted Lincoln in 1864. If they had, McClellan would have won and the Union would have died.

     
    Biden should sport a top hat.

  100. 100.

    Chris

    @karen marie:

    @zhena gogolia:  I am still baffled why he didn’t address it before answering the first question.  He and his people had to know he sounded bad.

    I suspect they thought it was a lose-lose: showing up with a cold means diminished enthusiasm and focus, but saying “I have a cold” sounds like a dog-ate-my-homework excuse and invites endless mocking for how it’s clearly a transparent excuse meant to cover much greater deficiencies.  In other words, the narrative would have been the same no matter what he said.

  101. 101.

    different-church-lady

    @Bupalos: I am seeing waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too many of these analyses that ‘neglect’ to mention THE MAN WAS TRYING TO SLUG HIS WAY THROUGH A COLD. Nope, it’s just a sign of dementia, it couldn’t possibly be a guy who’s fuzzy because he’s got a head full of mucus.

    Sorry, didn’t read your comment thoroughly enough. But I think you’re dismissing the cold too easily.

  104. 104.

    VOR

    @Redshift: Seems to me it’s mostly pundit disease. Most of the people who give quotes like this seem to be “Democratic consultants” who haven’t actually consulted for anyone in years, and former electeds who now do tv for a living. In other words, pundits in all but name.

    This, a thousand times this.

    There are a lot of forces who would LOVE some convention drama. The media would have an exciting story which would drive clicks. These pundits would get more attention. Re-nominating the existing President/VP is boring.

    And the media has an inherent bias for Trump. He made the job easy for the White House press. His administration leaked like a sieve, partially because everyone involved was a back-stabber. Stories came to the media, no work involved. And all personality driven, so no need to learn anything about policy. Their management loved him too, because the craziness was clickbait and ratings. I know I woke up every morning during the Trump mal-administration wondering what stupid thing had happened overnight.

  107. 107.

    pat

    @Chief Oshkosh:

    I remember the look on Biden’s face as trump was going on and on with his interminable lies, and it was like “what the hell, man?”

    And he did not have a good comeback prepared.  WTF were they doing in Camp David for the past week?  “Here’s what Dana might ask you …….”

  108. 108.

    trnc

    Yesterday, someone here (sorry, can’t remember who) announced that he or she would be watching the full debate so that they could decide for themselves how it went and not rely on anyone’s summary, and I responded that I felt like that was also the least I could do.

    I am very glad today that I did watch the whole thing. If Joe had performed in the first half like he did in the second half, I think the convo today would be more “Joe was off his game” than “OOOOOOMMMMMGGGGGG!!!!!” I believe that many people commenting on the debate turned it off within 15 minutes. Anyone doing that REALLY needs to can it until they’ve watched other recent appearances. The debate was a particularly bad single event to perform the way he did, but he’ll have plenty of public appearances to make it clear that was an outlier.

  110. 110.

    TBone

    Monday: yet another evening where I’ll close my eyes, pinch the bridge of my nose, inhale two sharp, short breaths, and remind myself that lots of people led meaningful, satisfying, creative lives during the fall of the Roman empire.

  111. 111.

    different-church-lady

    @trnc: From what I can tell it only took the first five minutes for everyone to go, “OMG, HE REALLY IS SENILE JUST LIKE THEY’VE BEEN TELLING US!!1!”

  114. 114.

    VOR

    @zhena gogolia: I thought Biden was surprised for the first part of the debate, stunned that Trump was lying so blatantly, so obviously. And with zero pushback from the supposed moderators. It took him a while to adjust to the torrent of outright lies from Trump.

  115. 115.

    pat

    @different-church-lady:

    Yes, and as I said in a recent post, he simply did not know (had not been coached) to respond to the endless lies spewing out of the orange monster’s piehole.

    Now I’m going to gmail and find one of the many many fundraisers from the Biden campaign, and send him a coupla hundred…..

  116. 116.

    Chris

    @VOR:

    The sheer glee that lights up media pundits’ face every time they see Democrats in trouble is something to look out for.  I saw it yesterday on the one post-debate video I watched, with the woman who couldn’t stop herself from beaming as she asked one of Biden’s surrogates about the possibility of stepping down.  Saw it in 2016 early on in election night, when it had become clear that this wasn’t going to be a Hillary cake walk, and one of the commenters was like “oh boy, you politics nerds out there are in for a real treat!”

    It’s so simple it’s obvious, but every time a Democrat has a problem, they look like children on Christmas morning.  It’s really, profoundly ugly.  Reminds me of the Mitt Romney smirk after Benghazi.

  118. 118.

    What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?

    @Mustang Bobby: Yeah it’s frustrating…like how many disasters that were the end has TCFG survived that were so much worse than a bad debate performance? I can’t even keep track! But one bad night and our own side piles on Biden.

    Nobody before or since has inspired me like Obama but Axelrod is exhibit A for Obama’s pretty spotty record at hiring people. Well maybe Tim Geitner is exhibit A bit Axelrod wasn’t that great either. Nobody’s perfect.

    What’s driving me nuts is the completely substance free nature of this campaign. Everything Trump wants to do is horrible and unpopular and bad ideas all the way down and nobody even discussed it. Like, THE FATE OF THE PLANET LITERALLY RIDES ON THE OUTCOME OF THIS ELECTION. That is not hyperbole. Trump is offering to destroy the planet for cash. Never gets discussed. He wants to cut social security and Medicare and raise taxes on everyone but the rich, for whom he wants to cut taxes. Plus another SCOTUS appointment and we’re back to the 18th century.

    Yet all we hear about is Biden is old and people aren’t exactly perfectly happy about the economy. Every fucking discussion is about what’s wrong with Biden. They never even consider the many things wrong with Trump.

  120. 120.

    Old times

    Look, I get it, but I spend a lot of time with young people, including my kids, and they are incensed with this choice, given the stakes. Saying STFU, I voted for Dukakis and Gore doesn’t quiet them down. I’m heartbroken for them and our country.

  121. 121.

    Jackie

    @satby: Yes! And I have zero tolerance for them. Watching former RNC Chair Michael Steele ripping into democratic pundits crying in their beers and crapping their britches was very illuminating. He, along with other Never MAGA republicans, are more supportive of Biden than those who should and aught to be!

  124. 124.

    Geminid

    @Baud: My friend told me something last Fall that the debate reminded me of. Georgia residents over the age of 65 get free tuition at the state’s colleges, and Warren was taking an introductory calculus course. He took first year calculus 50 years ago, but that was at a liberal school and Warren had to work his ass off to learn at the level Georgia Tech required. And he was very systematic about it.

    One day Warren had a test coming up. I was wishing him luck and he said that he was worried about one thing: the test was at 8 p.m., and he had found while studying that his efficiency really dropped off after 6 p.m. That had never been the case in his professional.

    So this could be why Joe Biden was so different last night and today, on top of the cold and (I think) faulty preparation.

    That to me is important, because it reflects upon Biden’s debating prowess at 9 at night and not upon his fitness as President. I don’t want my President working past 6 p.m anyway That’s not because I want Joe Biden to stay rested, it’s because I want him to appoint good enough top staff and cabinet secretararies that they get the work done and keep it off his desk.

    Now, Biden has to be visibly on the job after hours when there is an unusual event, like in April when Iran launched all those missiles and drones at Israel. But even then, Biden, Blinken, Sullivan and the rest basically were watching what Central Command was watching, and watching what Central Command was doing it about it. That was a fraught few hours though, and it was important that the Commander in Chief be at his post..

  125. 125.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @TBone: I’m taking to writing poetry. Mostly on other topics. Before I’m torn apart from anguish etc

  127. 127.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @Dangerman: may it go well, your procedure. You’ll find out soon enough. Hope it’s something we can all celebrate..

    Be well

  129. 129.

    oldgold

    Biden’s communication people were a day late and dollar short.

    Biden should have opened the debate with this from today’s speech in North Carolina: “I don’t walk as easy as I used to. I don’t speak as smoothly as I used to… I know how to tell the truth. I know right from wrong. I know how to do this job.”

  130. 130.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @Geminid: earlier than 8 pm. You make a good point, it’s almost angelic!

    ( Nevermind religious references, I mean it well, and I don’t need anyone to convert to my variant on religion, or anyone else’s )

    It’s brilliant.

  133. 133.

    theturtlemoves

    @Jackie: ​ The Bulwark crowd of Never Trumpers are sure jumping on the doomer bandwagon but their daily podcast includes two gay folks who were previously Republican operatives so their life choices don’t exactly inspire confidence.

  134. 134.

    jimmiraybob

    @Old times: ​
      I’m incensed that life is often unfair. Contrary to what they are focused on they are voting, hopefully, for the kind of world that they want to live in and to possibly build a family in.

    I knew this when I was 14 and, certainly by the time I started voting in ’73.

    That is the ballgame.

  135. 135.

    stacib

    @VOR: I thought he was over prepared – too much going around in the brain along with cold meds and a life-long stutter.  I think the week at Camp David prepped him for a “traditional” debate where there are actually facts involved instead of against of the barrage of unchecked lies from trump.  I wanted to bail after the first twenty minutes, but I stuck it out, and I do think he got better.  I also think the cutting of the mic ended up backfiring, and if not, it certainly didn’t help.  If he had actual back and forth with trump, I think we would have seen a much different Biden.

  136. 136.

    schrodingers_cat

    Biden is our best chance to win, that’s why the MSM has gone after him. I started paying attention to US politics during the Clinton presidency, since the Lewinsky scandal.  The so called liberal MSM has had an adverserial relationship with everyone of the Democratic Presidents and presidential candidates since then. What makes anyone think that a hypothetical Biden replacement will be treated any better by the complicit media.

  139. 139.

    PJ

    @princess leia: ​
      I just got an email from them:

    From the editorial board: Biden should leave the race
    At Thursday night’s debate, President Biden appeared the shadow of a great public servant. The greatest public service he can now perform is to announce that he will not continue to run for re-election, our editorial board writes.

    I hope they show this article to Biden every morning to get him fired up.

  140. 140.

    Redshift

    @Gloria DryGarden:

    Hey, so what qualities do you want to invoke and strengthen, for the USA, the world? A lot thinking about elections, USA, prevent dictatorship, but, whatever applies, that you want to create, invite, call forth? Just looking for a more positive angle for my focus.

    I want our major progress on climate change to continue and grow. Biden Administration investments are helping to overcome startup barriers and get us to the point where economic forces will do most of the work of pushing things forward. With that and other efforts in countries that don’t have a major party of insane climate deniers (it’s not a feature of conservatism in most places), I’m optimistic that we’ll get to where the ball is rolling downhill, and the harder we push now, the less suffering there will be in the future.

  141. 141.

    UncleEbeneezer

    If you haven’t been watching the Univision FG of undecided Latino voters, nearly every single undecided voter said they now support Biden, not Trump! Latinos were watching and listening and Trump sounded like a crazy liar. Watch this video clip from @uninot

  142. 142.

    Geminid

    @PJ:

       I wouldn’t hire them to pound sand into ratholes.

                                Harry Truman

  144. 144.

    Eyeroller

    @PJ: ​I had kept my FTFNYT subscription of several decades for Krugman, but if he’s saying Biden should quit, I’m canceling. This is crazy. Firstly, why is the press opining on this. If Biden is bad for the country (snort) the voters can select the obviously much better Trump (snort snort). It’s not their place to call for any candidate to withdraw. That is taking a side–and not the side it might seem to take. Biden has shown he can do the job by doing the job.

  145. 145.

    MomSense

    It pains me to say this but I think Biden should step aside.  It’s chaos for sure, but I don’t think he can win.  I hate this.  It’s unfair.  It’s absolutely fucking outrageous that no one is calling for trump to step down, but here we are.

    I personally prefer MVP Harris to all the other choices, but I’m not sure that will happen.  A contested convention and all the chaos is horrible and yet I think it is still preferable to Biden staying in and certain defeat.

    Obviously I’m a nobody.  What I say on a top 10,000 blog doesn’t mean a thing.  I will phonebank and work my heart out whatever happens.  I honestly think Biden can’t come back from that disaster last night.  Soooooo many of us are caring for elderly family and what we saw last night cannot be unseen.  I’m incredibly angry at whoever is advising him and his campaign staff and debate prep team.  If they thought there was a 5% chance of that disaster last night they should not have suggested the debate.

  146. 146.

    Baud

    @Eyeroller:

    . If Biden is bad for the country (snort) the voters can select the obviously much better Trump (snort snort).

     
    Excellent point. If they’re asking Biden to withdraw and not asking Trump to withdraw, they should endorse Trump. That would be more honest.

  150. 150.

    Captain C

    @PJ: Aren’t we still waiting for the FTFNYT editorial that Deadbeat Donnie the Felon should drop out of the race due to his multiple felony convictions, business fraud judgements, and for being a confirmed sexual assaulter? For that matter, how about a front page apology for Butter Emails, WMDs and Judith Miller, and Whitewater?

  151. 151.

    Yutsano

    @MomSense: Anyone else but Biden loses. That’s been polled. Even rock stars like Newsom and Whitmer lose to Dolt45, and so does MVP. Biden is still within the margin of error and I don’t think one bad debate (which thanks to SCOTUS is already off the front page) this early in the cycle will hurt him that badly. He can come back from this and is already working on doing so. We can’t give up now, because if we do we WILL lose.

  155. 155.

    Andrya

    One thing that no one (as far as I know) has mentioned, on this blog or anywhere else:  in 1972 it came out that the Democratic VP nominee, Thomas Eagleton, had received electroshock treatment for severe depression.  Republicans were suggesting that, if Eagleton succeeded to the presidency, we could end up with a president who was literally insane.  George McGovern responded to this pressure by dropping Eagleton from the ticket.  The result was a wipeout- one of the worst defeats for Democrats in American history.  I expect a similar wipeout if Biden is dropped from the ticket.

    Replacing Biden at this stage would be a similar catastrophe.  And there’s no reason to- he’s been a great president but a subpar candidate.  But replacing him is guaranteed defeat.

  156. 156.

    MomSense

    @Yutsano:

    I’m not giving up.  I will fight for our democracy.  I don’t think Biden can win and I think all the internal polling will show that post debate.

  157. 157.

    Eyeroller

    @Yutsano: ​The biggest reason it was all that bad was the immediate media full-court press on the spin. It wasn’t great but neither did it sound all that terrible to me. But the narrative must rule.

    I’ll also note that this is the week before a holiday week when a lot of people (including my coworkers and people I must interact with) are thinking mainly about their vacations.

  158. 158.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    Yes, let’s consider the alternatives to Biden..

    Harris;  the MSM “She’s black and got cooties”

    Sanders: the MSM “COMMUNISM!!!”

    Warren: the MSM “she’s old, got cooties”

    Buttigieg: The MSM “A happily married man as president? Perish the though!”

    Newsom: The MSM “His Californian accent is to thick!”

    Last night was going to be disaster for any Democrat because that’s the MSM narrative. Get a fucking clue. Forget the whole Hilary has E-mails nonsense in 2016 already?  We didn’t run Biden in 2020 because of his speechfing, we ran him because he was hardest of the candidates for the MSM to make up bullshit about.

  159. 159.

    Another Scott

    @MomSense: I understand why you feel that way, but I think that feeling will pass.

    Politico.com (from October 2012):

    DENVER — A stunned Obama campaign acknowledged Thursday that President Barack Obama delivered a lackluster and even ineffectual performance in his leadoff debate against Mitt Romney, mistakenly opting for a cautious approach to handling his opponent that all too often left Obama looking timid and disengaged.

    Democrats close to the president privately acknowledge that their candidate appeared flat and uninspired against a more animated challenger, resulting in the worst debate showing he’s had since the early days of the 2008 campaign. Even more frustrating to many Obama supporters was the fact that the president’s muted tone was at least partly by design.

    Multiple party strategists privately attributed Obama’s demeanor to an ailment that frequently affects incumbents: a fear of appearing too aggressive and risking a larger-scale misstep that could transform the campaign. Projecting a calm, reasonable — some said “presidential” — demeanor was the strategy during Obama’s debate-prep sessions outside of Las Vegas.

    But as a result, Obama allowed Romney to set the terms for much of their Wednesday night faceoff at the University of Denver. Startling his supporters, Obama did not deliver almost any of the sharpest attacks that have defined his campaign against Romney, dwelling instead on missing details from Romney’s policy proposals. The former Massachusetts governor’s private-equity background, controversial personal finances, views on social issues and recently reported comments, disparaging Americans who do not pay income taxes, went entirely unmentioned.

    […]

    [ … way, way down at the end of the article … ]

    Despite widespread Democratic dissatisfaction with Obama’s debut debate, at least a few voices spoke up overnight to question just how problematic the event really was for the president’s campaign.

    Democratic pollster Geoff Garin, who advises the pro-Obama super PAC Priorities USA Action, released a memo detailing the results of a dial group in Aurora, Colo., that showed Romney gaining some ground on the president in the issue of taxes — but doing little to address the overall personality and issue gap that exists in the campaign.

    “The president came out with a distinct advantage over Romney on the important trait, “caring about people,” and respondents were much more likely to give Obama credit for being honest and truthful in discussing the issues,” Garin wrote. “For these key swing voters, whom Obama must hold and Romney must win, the first debate did not change much, but it also did not settle much.”

    Hang in there.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  161. 161.

    Yutsano

    @Another Scott: This election isn’t over yet. No votes have been cast. Hell no primaries have even been held yet. We can’t give them such an easy win, and replacing Biden now would do just that. The MSM can read polling too, and if they get to take out Biden they get their easy gravy train back while the country and the world will suffer.

  163. 163.

    Ksmiami

    @MomSense: I’m going to work like hell but I agree with you at this point. And a ticket with Kamala and young bright Dem governors might have enough shine to get ppl fired up to vote. I hope I’m wrong because I adore Joe. But there are too many vulnerable ppl at risk

  164. 164.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    @Baud:@Yutsano:

     Hell no primaries have even been held yet.

    ?!? Biden won the primary in multiple states. Same with Trump.

  166. 166.

    MomSense

    @Ksmiami:

    Yeah, there are no good options at this point but I honestly think the chaos and excitement are better than the alternative.  I cannot honestly say that Biden is competent.

    Trump absolutely isn’t – and the Republican party is too corrupt and compromised to do the right thing.

  167. 167.

    Bupalos

    @Baud: That is not “more honest.”

    I’m personally torn, but mostly because I think I’m more open than most to the idea that Trump has broken the system to the point that being bound by old rules is a suckers game right now. The conventional wisdom is that you can’t give up incumbency and you can’t be deciding on your candidate at the last minute and… that you can’t be convicted of felonies and you can’t praise Nazi’s and you can’t side with dictators and….

    I don’t know. I’m pretty sure I wish Biden had stepped aside shortly after the accomplishment of the IRA saying he did his job and bridged to the future and this is no country for old men. Now that we’ve given up every advantage of that kind of transition and ensured the replacement won’t really be a democratic choice…I lean towards crossing our fingers and playing this out. But I don’t think it’s a slam dunk. However we got there, I think if the ballots in Nov read Trump – Whitmer, odds are that likely would be better than Trump-Biden.

  168. 168.

    NoraLenderbee

    My husband is doing the pants-shitting in our house. I told him I didn’t want to hear about it. Mandatory news vacation for me.

  169. 169.

    MomSense

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I respect your opinion.  Sadly, most people only watch the first 15 -20 minutes. The unaltered videos of Biden are all over social media and they are really bad.

  170. 170.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @UncleEbeneezer:

    Latinos were watching and listening and Trump sounded like a crazy liar.

    Another thread where I have to say:

    We and the press are paying way too much attention to Biden.

    Undecideds, minorities, and anyone who cares about any major issue such as climate change or abortion watched that debate and was repulsed.

    This was a bad debate for Biden.  It was a catastrophic debate for Trump.  All the screaming and wailing about how Biden sounded old is noise.  What actually happened is Trump said shit like “Everyone wanted Roe vs Wade overturned” in front of millions of people who weren’t sure what his positions were until last night.

  171. 171.

    Another Scott

    @MomSense: I’m sorry you feel that way.

    Biden was fine, IMO.

    He got tangled up a few times.  That happens to him.  It has happened to him for decades.  He’s still going to win the election if we do what we need to do.  And I think we will.

    Look at the Kansas polling before the abortion amendment vote.  “Closely divided!  Exciting!!”  Look at the results 2 weeks later – a Blowout for the good guys and gals.

    Women aren’t going to stay home because Biden got tongue-tied a couple of times.

    The reactionary SCOTUS gutting the power of the US Government, the fascists and Project 2025, the GQP enablers, the lies, the cheating, the disrespect of all our parents and grandparents and great grand parents worked hard to make this country be, and all the rest – people see the danger.  Increasing number of them won’t stand for it.

    My $0.02.

    Hang in there.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  174. 174.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @MomSense: Are you really going to write off 3 1/2 of competent governance because a half an hour of bad TV?  I would suggest let some time pass.  Trump was insane on that stage.  Let’s see how people are looking at this in a few days.  Hot takes are often way off base.

  175. 175.

    NotMax

    @MomSense

    Don’t discount the competence of the people he surrounds himself with and relies upon.

    Compare and contrast with that other guy.

    The buck may stop in the Oval Office but the hands it passes through beforehand matter.

  177. 177.

    Betty Cracker

    @UncleEbeneezer: Undecided voters are a species as alien to me as unicorns; I have no idea how their decision-making process works if they’re undecided in 2024. But the swing state undecided voter focus group crapola I read today was pretty encouraging.

    Even those uniformed nitwits recognized that Trump was lying constantly, despite the dearth of fact checking. They thought Biden face-planted, but most seemed willing to vote for him anyway because Trump is so terrible.

  180. 180.

    Cacti

    This is just like Obama in 2012…

    Except the part where Obama wasn’t 81 years old and wasn’t running against the perception that he was a dementia patient.

  182. 182.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Betty Cracker:

    They thought Biden face-planted, but most seemed willing to vote for him anyway because Trump is so terrible.

    Exactly.  Biden sounded old.  Trump sounded like Hitler.  It turns out, most people don’t like Hitler.

  183. 183.

    schrodingers_cat

    Democrats are not going to be rewarded by normies for being disloyal. I am going to work hard to get Biden elected. The other wants to round up and kill people like me. I don’t have the luxury of twiddling my thumbs and worrying about Vichy Times has to say.

  184. 184.

    MomSense

    @NotMax:

    The problem is that I absolutely question the competence of the people around him.  That was completely on the Biden campaign.  They called for the debates, they set the rules, and they fucked up.

  186. 186.

    Bupalos

    I’ll say this after seeing the rally speech from Joe today (which I feel and love, but is a particular kind of thing, read off a teleprompter, and doesn’t really alleviate the concerns I have about his communication skills)

    For everyone saying “stop talking about this and get some rah rah and do the work,” I say yes. Make a commitment to go to a Joe rally when one is near you. Show your passion. As much as I’m on here saying I really wish we had a different candidate, I’m going to go put my body and voice out there and scream like a rabid Trumper for Joe. That crowd was fired up and ready to go.

  187. 187.

    Citizen Alan

    @Mustang Bobby: To me, this is a reason to feel terror over Biden’s performance rather than a contrast in the parties. Because Shitgibbon is only a symptom. The disease is that we have 80 million people in this country who would very much prefer to live under a white supremacist, fascist, Christianist theocracy. And our margin for error is so small that its probably going do come down to less than 100k votes spread across five states. I know its stressing people here out that others are freaking out over the debate, but last night was a step in the direction of the end of America. Not saying Biden can’t pull us a few steps back between now and November. But that’s what it felt like to those of us who have loved ones who will suffer and die if Shitgibbons wins in November.

  188. 188.

    Kay

    I spent the afternoon with my college age son and his GF. They want Kamala, especially my son’s GF.

    I told them “think of this as an adventure” – the best I could come up with right now.

  189. 189.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @rikyrah:

    Nothing is too cruel to him, and no cruelty is unusual, in Gorsuch’s America.

    He is very much his mother’s son.

  190. 190.

    japa21

    @MomSense: I saw nothing last night that caused me to question his competence or his mental health.  I saw someone who, even knowing just how much Trump lies, was overcome by the sewage that came from his opponent and needed a little while to steady himself.

    It is just as easy to say that you can’t see how Trump could win after last night.  In fact, even easier.

    There are two big events which will have more impact on the election than last night.  The acceptance speeches at the conventions will be watched more than the debate was.  Today was an excellent example of what we will see from Biden.

    We also know what we will get from Trump.  At best it will be the drivel that we have been seeing lately.  There is, however, an at least 50% chance it will be even worse.  Trump will not get a post convention bounce, Biden will.

    Part of the problem is that WE set high expectations for Biden and low expectations for Trump.  For the most part our predictions about Trump were on the money.  We over expected on Biden.

  191. 191.

    Bupalos

    @MomSense: I think that’s a bit much. There’s no way around it if your candidate can’t make sentences and ideas connect to one another. I mean… if you’re not a post-truth right wing populist out to wreck democracy. They didn’t really have a choice to refuse debate, and these rules should have worked fine for Biden. He had his chance to deliver his message and he couldn’t do it. That’s not on prep or advisors, that’s on father time.

  193. 193.

    Damien

    This is the most insane reaction to a single poor performance that I’ve ever seen. Like I told a friend, I watched the entire debate last night and saw two old men: one of them seemed like a smart guy with a cold, and the other guy seemed like a flat out lunatic.

    I watch Biden speak every chance I get and to say that TWENTY MINUTES OF ONE NIGHT reflects on his overall competence is insane. Flatly insane. Do I wish it had gone a different way? Yeah. Do I think that people need to calm the fuck down? Also yeah.

  195. 195.

    MomSense

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I am so proud of his presidency.  He has been one of the best.  Finally severing us from the Reagan letthemeatcakeonomics that have been so devastating.

    I have said that the way the presidential campaign has d/evolved is absolutely the worst way to choose a president because it doesn’t actually reveal the skills and qualities that make for a good president.

    We only beat the expectations in the 2022 midterms because we had record young voter turnout (roughly 30%).  We were already in trouble because of Israel / Palestine and they have not been happy about having to vote for an 80 year old.  Well last night he showed them how bad it is.  It is absolutely unfair after such a successful presidency but I do not think he can win.

  197. 197.

    Another Scott

    WhiteHouse.gov – transcript of Raleigh, NC event today:

    […]

    THE PRESIDENT: I’m here in North Carolina for one reason: Because I intend to win this state in November — (applause) — and we’re going to see that ha- — I think we are.

    And Roy is right. We win here, we win the election. (Applause.)

    And here’s how we’re going to do it. We’re going to stand up for the women of America. (Applause.) We’re going to restore Roe v. Wade as the law of the land. (Applause.) We’re going to stand up for the right to vote. (Applause.) And we’re going to stand up for Medicare and Social Security. (Applause.) And we’re going to fight for childcare, paid leave, and eldercare. (Applause.)

    And we’re going to keep lowering the cost of prescription drugs, not just for seniors but for every single American. (Applause.) We’re going to keep protecting the Affordable Care Act — (applause) — which is why more than 40 million Americans have health insurance today that didn’t before. (Applause)

    We’re going to protect our children and get the weapons of war off our streets. (Applause.) We’re going to provide clean drinking water, affordable high-speed Internet, quality education for every child in America. (Applause.)

    We’re going to secure our border and protect legal immigration. (Applause.)

    And unlike the other guy, we’re going to stand up to dictators like Putin, because — (applause) — America bows to no one — no one — no one ever. (Applause.)

    Folks — and we’re going to keep dealing with the climate crisis.

    AUDIENCE: Four more years! Four more years! Four more years!

    THE PRESIDENT: Look, and more than — and more than anything, we’re going to preserve, protect, and defend our democracy. (Applause.) Because more than anything else, that is what is at stake in America this election — (applause) — your freedom, your democracy. America itself is at stake. (Applause.)

    […]

    Biden is fine.

    Eyes on the prizes.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  198. 198.

    wjca

    @Van Buren: The same people yelling the loudest to dump Joe would be the first to complain about whoever replaced him.

    This.

    With an exception for the ones who would be fine if Trump replaced him as the Democratic candidate.  (They know who pays their salaries.)

  199. 199.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Dagaetch:

    I removed Vox from my RSS feed today. Been thinking about it for a while, but after they wrote like 10 articles today about how Joe Must Go, I’m done.

    Vox has sucked for years.  Too many fauxgressive, neoliberals that basically funnel glibertarian ideas from places like CATO, Heritage and various academic departments that have whored themselves out.

    Vox writers (and Atlantic ones, many of whom ‘graduated’ out of Vox U) launder the above shit for broader consumption aimed primarily at the Totebagger Radio audience.

  200. 200.

    Bupalos

    @Damien: Well the whole world is just going crazy then, and you’re the last sane one left. You should see the reaction in Germany and India.’

    There already was a general European assumption that Trump was probably going to win. It’s turning quickly to “it would take a miracle.”

    The right-wing populist can rant and rave. They fundamentally stand for something beyond reason. The left-centrist is supposed to make actual sentences and stuff.

  202. 202.

    Damien

    @MomSense: Gee, do you think these young people might be more upset about Trump’s whole “finish them” thing on Palestine? Do you sincerely think that young people in the most liberal and most politically active generation in decades are going to sit this out because they aren’t happy with the choice?

    I find that staggeringly unlikely, but hey what do I know.

  205. 205.

    Eyeroller

    @Kay: If they want Kamala then obviously they should vote Biden/Harris since she’s on that ticket.  If that ticket loses, then her political star loses a lot of luster, and her chances of ascending to the presidency in the future are greatly reduced. I don’t know why this is hard to understand but it may be more difficult for young people who don’t yet quite understand how things work.

  206. 206.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Damien:

    This is the most insane reaction to a single poor performance that I’ve ever seen. Like I told a friend, I watched the entire debate last night and saw two old men: one of them seemed like a smart guy with a cold, and the other guy seemed like a flat out lunatic.

    This needs to be repeated to every time a somebody starts whinging about last night.  Per another thread, look at how the base of the Dem party, ie., black folks, reacted:

    Fuck that bum, you go Joe!

  207. 207.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    Mr DAW had Ari Melber on and it was all about the debate. I left the room. People agonized about fantasies of the Ds changing candidates or whatever. It felt useless to me. The debate is over. The Court’s actions today will have long lasting effects but they weren’t mentioned at least in the part I saw

  209. 209.

    Another Scott

    @Citizen Alan:

    The disease is that we have 80 million people in this country who would very much prefer to live under a white supremacist, fascist, Christianist theocracy.

    There may have been in early November 2020. There weren’t on January 7, 2021.

    There were several huge Trump flags in my neighborhood throughout his term. They were gone on January 7 and haven’t returned.

    He lost as an incumbent when he had a lot – but not enough – support in 2020. He has less support now. Even among the RWNJs. While we haven’t won every seat we wanted, they have lost a lot. Several of TCFFG’s high-profile June primary endorsements lost.

    Hang in there.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  210. 210.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    Biden sounded old. Trump sounded like Hitler. It turns out, most people don’t like Hitler.

    I’m now gonna combine two comments and shove them in the face of anybody who whinges (for whatever reason) about last night’s event:

    This is the most insane reaction to a single poor performance that I’ve ever seen. Like I told a friend, I watched the entire debate last night and saw two old men: one of them seemed like a smart guy with a cold, and the other guy seemed like a flat out lunatic.  Biden sounded old.  Trump sounded like Hitler.  It turns out, most people don’t like Hitler.

  211. 211.

    Kay

    @Eyeroller:

    Oh, they’re voting for Biden. They just think it should be Kamala. His gf was actually pretty persuasive – she said it would shock people into paying attention. I’m open to ideas.

  212. 212.

    wjca

    @Geminid: I’ll tell you what: if Chicken Little and Eeyore had podcast they’d be cleaning up right now!

    You’ve done it!  Found the ideal ticket for the Dump Biden crowd:

    Little-Eeyore!

  213. 213.

    Chris Johnson

    @Frankensteinbeck: Yeah, and he had a lot to say about migrants coming to take black jobs.

    You can get the media to give that stuff a pass by paying them enough. You can’t even win over all the REPUBLICANS with that shit. They’re not a monolith, they’re just authoritarians and not all of those are blind and self-destructive. Trump is literally stealing all their campaign financing for himself. What the actual fuck? But he is, he really is.

    If you have any clue about politics you recognize that it was a catastrophic debate for Trump… because he thought it was all going his way and was fine. And he had no caution, none at all.

    The only way that man could possibly recover is if the Democrats agreed to freak the hell out, circular firing squad, and seppuku in order to clear the way for a coup in all the chaos. Short of that, Trump fucked himself. He cannot campaign for a general election like he was trying to bully a Republican primary into line. And yet…

  214. 214.

    Damien

    @Bupalos: Like I said, I watch Biden speak every chance I get, and I saw a rough night for him. But people seem to be taking that and running it through some kinda filter that makes a single rough evening into a drooling, gibberish mess.

    Yeah, sucks he did a bad job. But I watched his NC speech, I watch his press conferences, and anything else I can; maybe that’s why I’m not losing my shit?

    Dunno. All I can say is that Joe Biden isn’t someone to count out.

  215. 215.

    Omnes Omnibus

    You guys have a nice time.  I am going to do something other than beating my head against the wall.  I think more than a few people should take a few deep breaths, walk away from the internet for a while, make a donation, find a place to volunteer, or some combination of the aforementioned.  Also, we should remember that, while we should make a presumption that commenters here are posting in good faith, that presumption should be rebuttable.

  216. 216.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Old times: ​
     

    Look, I get it, but I spend a lot of time with young people, including my kids, and they are incensed with this choice, given the stakes. Saying STFU, I voted for Dukakis and Gore doesn’t quiet them down. I’m heartbroken for them and our country.

    OK, why are they incensed with this choice?

    If it’s because Biden’s not inspiring, well, that’s life. Once in a while you get a genuinely inspiring leader like Obama. Doesn’t mean everything works out well, even if you elect him. We did get the ACA, thank goodness, but otherwise, a lot less change than we’d been asked to hope for.

    If it’s because of Gaza, that at least I can understand. It tears me up inside that we continue to support a regime that is murdering people on the scale that it is. But any chance that we might move in the right direction wrt Israel and Palestine is dependent on having Democrats in power, because many Dems, even in his own Administration, are unhappy with Biden’s policy there. Meanwhile, every Republican is four-square behind Israel, and would cheerfully support Israel in evicting all Palestinians from both Gaza and the West Bank to please their Rapture-seeking evangelical base.

    They need to come to understand this. A depressing part of adulthood is coming to the realization that sometimes there are no Good Guys to support, and you can either support Less Evil against Greater Evil, or be all pure and let Greater Evil carry the day.

    If it’s any of his other policies, well, what? He’s at least made a start in addressing global warming, before the Republicans took back the House and blocked any further progress. Abortion? Voting rights? Labor? LGBTQ rights? Biden’s on the right side of all of these, and the only way to get more done on any of these is to elect more, better Democrats, as Kos used to say.

    But they’re the ones who will have to live with our response to climate change, so they need to have the long view. What we do now will matter for decades. One party, and only one party, is willing to pass legislation to try to limit the extent of global warming. If they want to live in a world that’s not becoming too hot for human survival, they need to vote Dem, and they need to do it this year.

    Otherwise yet another four years will slip by without any further action. We can’t afford to lose very many more years.

  217. 217.

    Sure Lurkalot

    @MomSense: I agree with you that there’s a difference from Obama’s 1st debate fail with Romney. For many, Biden confirmed all the “priors” pushed by Republicans and the media about his age. Really does not matter that Trump is old too.

    It’s more than the squishy undecideds. Many fairly committed Biden cheerleaders are heading for the exits. I listened to a few minutes of Thom Hartmann this morning. After going through a long laundry list of Biden’s accomplishments, he finished with calling for Biden to step aside.

    So work and hope we will, but Joe will have to be pretty much pitch perfect from here on out while the Republican party can put up their figurehead felon who advances their fascist plans without consequence.

  218. 218.

    Damien

    @Chris Johnson:

    Yes, thank you, exactly this. I definitely get why people are freaking out: we have legitimately the worst person on earth running for the presidency, and our only other option had a bad debate performance.

    But yeah, let’s recognize that the winner/loser dynamic is harder to judge here: how many of the 48m people who watched came away convinced by Trump? How many were turned off? How many were turned off by Biden’s bad performance?

    And do we really, REALLY think that the first number is bigger than the second number, and the third number is bigger than the second? Because I just see a freak out happening

  219. 219.

    debit

    Anyone feeling down or hopeless today should take a break from news and social media for a couple of days. Seriously. Go do something that makes you happy or soothes you.

    Last night wasn’t great, but I am here to tell you that the majority of people didn’t watch.  They may hear something or see a snippet of a video, there may be jokes on late night tv, but most people have no clue about the debate.  By the time the actual election happens what people will remember will be the convention, the ads and maybe the second debate.

    Deep breaths. Don’t despair. Turn off the tv and the computer.

  220. 220.

    karen marie

    @PJ: Have any of the halfwits demanding that Biden drop out suggested who should/could/would replace  him four months before the election?

  221. 221.

    Ohio Mom

    Every time I hear someone say Biden should step down I think of the vote I cast for him in the primary.

    You want to throw out and erase my vote because you didn’t like the result it contributed to? That’s pretty much what MAGAs tried to do on January 6.

    The media could have spent today tearing Trump’s answers apart. For one example, what is a “Black job” that immigrants are going to take away? Certain jobs are only held by Black people? What career paths are those?

    Beyond this gibberish, what is the actual data on immigrants and employment and the economy? What a teachable moments press missed because they are lazy.

  223. 223.

    Jay

    We all knew what the “hot takes” were going to be.

    Now the deep dives start.

    Matthew VanDyke
    @Matt_VanDyke
    5h
    #Trump revealed something in the #debate that demands explanation (and possibly investigation).

    When speaking about #Putin invading #Ukraine:

    “This was his dream. I talked to him about it.”

    Was this before, during, or after Trump blocked sales of Javelin missiles to Ukraine?
    Jun 28, 2024 · 6:30 PM UTC

    https://nitter.poast.org/Matt_VanDyke/status/1806757014913126648#m

  224. 224.

    JML

    Of course the media is going with Replace Biden stories. It’s fucking catnip to those shitbags. They would get weeks of speculation, people leaking all over the place, and they wouldn’t have to talk about policy once: only personalities. They wouldn’t have to think about their content creation at all, so of course they want this. They’ve been pining for an “open convention” for years because of all the chaos they’d get to cover. Biden dumped the war they loved to cover, so this would be the replacement.

    It’s not going to happen. It shouldn’t happen. There’s no new candidate out there that can unite the Dems right now; you’d have a bunch of people pissed about Biden getting pushed out just for starters.

    The Felon is a lunatic. Fuck the press, especially the fading rags like the Time and the Post. Fuck all the DC insiders; ignoring them has always been the best political advice. Fuck all the bitter Obama Bros who have been secretly (sometimes not so secretly) furious that Biden’s presidency has gotten such good reviews from historians, and despise the fact that he’s picked his own people instead of running back a lot of them in his administration. Ignore them all.

    Chevron and the Court. That’s a way bigger problem than Biden having a cold. The Doomers and lefty “let’s lose to get a big backlash!” fools fucked us all in 2016 and stuck us with 3 right-wing nutballs on the court for the next 20-30 years, something smart people warned about. Indulging in replacement fanatasyland gets us a permanent right wing court that will approve the GOP re-writing the laws to allow a minority to rule over the majority. These sick fucks will put into law rules that would let them pick their voters rather than the other way around. Our rights are at stake, and we don’t have time for this.

  225. 225.

    SomeRandomGuy

    The other thing to do about Biden’s disappointing show is to do exact what Republicans are doing right now. Crow, yes, *CROW* about Trump’s fuckups, his ugly, undignified balding, his fat, fat, fattiness, his discussion of “Black jobs” his inability to answer a question, how he looks like a fucking orange *toad*, and how the American people don’t like whiny little bitches, “whah, I’m a convicted felon but it’s a conflicted judge and a democrat jury.”

    Mock them with their own jokes. “Yeah, the Diapers for Donald campaign is running perfectly.”

    I swear to god, don’t we have any middle siblings here, who have learned to throw sibling rivalry triumphialism back in their stupid faces? You don’t have to flood the zone like they do, just point and laugh at the laughable ones. “You pick your diapered Don Snorleone; I’ll pick the old guy who doesn’t lie like a cheap rug. Don’t you ever feel *stupid* when he pulls a whopper like that?”

    (NB: No need to point out the whopper – just mention it. There’s always 2-3.)

    I don’t mean you need to become immature and childish all the time – but with all the whining I’ve seen, it’s like, you are all “wah, now they’re going to insult us the same way they always do!” and it’s like, WTF, yes, they will, and you should be hitting them back.

  226. 226.

    NotMax

    @MomSense

    I was not referring to those brought in for debate prep, I was referring to those involved in his everyday presidenting.

  228. 228.

    Geminid

     

     

    @Bupalos: I don’t put much stock in reactions from Germany and India. Those people pay about as much attention to American politics as we do to theirs, and that’s not much.

  229. 229.

    Jackie

    @MomSense: Funny, the cable programs I’ve watched today for the most part have been pointing out Biden’s early stumble and semi recovery, THEN SHIFTING TO highlighting TCFG’s too many to count BS easily proven lies.

  231. 231.

    sab

    @rikyrah: I passed rhe Bar in 1980, and changed professions a few years later. Now my constituional and administrative law knowledge is up to date again.

  232. 232.

    UncleEbeneezer

    A very smart, politically-active Black Woman I know was spitting some bars:

    I am taking this commercial break to ask folks on my TL if yall realize how ridiculous you sound??? Especially if you’re white. DOUBLE IF YOURE A WW.

    Is Joe having a good debate right now? No. Were you depending on his having a good debate to vote to save democracy? To vote against the KKK/neo-Nazis? To be the liberal/progressives you constantly pat your backs for being and bore the rest of us with?

    I don’t give a fck if Joe shits on the stage right now. I am not only voting for Joe ENTHUSIASTICALLY AND EXCITEDLY. I WILL WORK MY ASS OF FOR HIM.

    If you cannot figure out a way to be positive and act like your racist ass cousins, friends and coworkers when they crawl over glass to vote for Trump and the GOP, AND gas the presumptive Dem nominee up, then STFU.

    TRUMP IS LYING HIS ASS OFF AND Y’ALL ARE MAD AT JOE. Y’ALL AINT SHIT.

  234. 234.

    sab

    I am seventy and Biden has been the best president of my lifetime.

    My stepkids are in their early forties, so when I say this they think “what a low bar” because all they remember is  GW Bush, Obama (good guy, but only major accomplishment was ACA and saving the economy while also saving the banks that blew it up)  and Trump.

    So when I say best president, they shrug. When I say Supreme Court they sit up and listen. You or your girlfriend might die of a pregnancy gone awry. What does that do to your sex life?

  235. 235.

    Citizen Alan

    @Cacti: No, he was running against the perception (on the Right, at least) that he was a closet Socialist who hated white people and would take away everybody’s guns.

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