Life goes on – one thing I’ll say for this summer, it certainly hasn’t been quiet!
Trump’s sentencing date is July 11, just over 10 days from now. I found the comment below, by lurker, really helpful, so I saved it for when we were a bit closer to sentencing time.
I looked for a good image to use for a Trump thread, and I decided on this one.
Promoted from the comments (comment by lurker)
Partly this is collecting some of the sentencing/appeal comments into a thread … um … cuz?
There are a few points that seem to be coming up:
One, he may or may not go to prison immediately. Judges have some discretion to allow someone to get their affairs in order in a gentlemanly way – this tends to be granted in white collar crime cases and much less so for violent offenses or drug crimes. The court is mainly analyzing whether the convicted felon is a flight risk and a public safety risk. Sadly, money is typically considered an indication of not being a flight risk, even though it might enable flight that a poor person could not achieve (like using a private plane, e.g.)
Two, the order on when to report is often stayed pending appeal based on the same kind of analysis – flight and public safety risks, and that order can be handed down by the trial-level judge (Judge Merchan in this case) or by the appellate level court if an appeal is filed and a stay is requested.
Realistically, Trump will not go to jail right away in this case regardless.
Third point – whether he goes to jail for contempt – hard to say what to make of it in terms of the initial sentence, it can be considered as part of the sentence for the conviction or considered separately, subject to the controlling statutes which seem to be somewhat lenient in NYS. Any post-conviction contempt sentence could likely also be stayed and appealed. However, the gag order was already upheld during the case in an appeal which happened in parallel with proceedings at the trial court, so the best chance he would have if he is sentenced to jail for contempt is to get the appeals court to say the jail order was reversed. Contempt is supposed to alter future behavior as much as penalize past behavior, and here the future behavior is likely considered attenuated since the verdict has been reached. (Not saying that is correct, just where a court seems likely to go.)
Fourth point, probation can be very onerous or not very onerous – consider how many mob guys with organizational connections manage to deal with pretty light probation, versus onerous probation restrictions that seem to be designed to cause a probation violation and a sentence to jail/prison. Trump is not likely to have a very onerous or burdensome set of restrictions unless he starts violating more court orders and probation restrictions – leading to the judge revising and tightening the restrictions. This will not have an immediate effect in this case, but he seems to have the personality to get in trouble, combined with some fear of authority that kicks in to keep him safer from many more consequences. Consider that he is not a defendant who has had outbursts in court – the judge did not have to tell him to stop yelling during court sessions, only to stop with the out-of-court behavior. How that plays out on probation is hard to say and I am a little morbidly curious.
Fifth point (which is about six too many so far) is that he could get a suspended prison sentence with probation – this is commonly what someone gets in a situation like this – meaning that violations of probation (probably more than one) would lead to revocation of probation and immediate imposition of the otherwise suspended prison sentence. A guy in Trump’s socioeconomic status tends to get a lot of leeway on this.
Sixth, Trump could also get a prison sentence with an offer of a shorter stay and then parole. Parole is a post-incarceration option, and tends to mean a longer term of supervision in exchange for getting out early. He is not likely to even get into this type of situation, but parole can be an even bigger challenge than probation, as the length of time and restrictions tend to be tougher.
Seventh, (probably about ten points to many now), he could opt to spend the time in prison while he appeals. Notable examples of this were Martha Stewart and Barry Bonds, both of whom seemed to feel that taking the hit for serving their sentences (Stewart incarcerated briefly, Bonds on house arrest if I recall correctly) would be better than the public relations hit for staying out while on appeals at one level or another. Bonds announced he would begin serving his sentence, it is not entirely clear if he did, but the sentence was mainly 30 days of house arrest and then _two_ years probation plus community service. Bonds ultimately had his sentence overturned due to issues with whether he ever should have been prosecuted for perjury in the first place.
It is laughable that Trump would voluntarily serve his sentence before appealing to the US Supreme Court and what ever other court he could think of after that…
Ok, this was exhausting, hope it helps someone…
It helped me! Open thread.
TBone
Last time I checked, no Defendant serves a sentence voluntarily. I watched Jack Nicholson in The Last Detail last night. Illustrative – TCM is on the case!
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Detail
Leto
I’m going to go with “not very” considering how he had his lawyer with him during his probation officer meet, and apparently that’s not supposed to happen. Just going to keep my expectations tempered wrt the sentencing.
cmorenc
One of the likely possibilities, a suspended jail sentence (plus probation terms) is IMO the smartest and most interesting potential outcome for the Judge to impose. How will Trump handle having a real (though avoidable) actual jail sentence hanging over him? Complaining about the jail sentence in public carries different overtones with the non-MAGA public than complaining whether the prosecution was political, especially if the judge emphasizes the jail is more related to his fraudulent business practice conduct and not campaign-related speech.
Raoul Paste
“ get their affairs in order in a gentlemanly way”…….
Now all we need is a gentleman
HumboldtBlue
So he’ll never see a minute in custody, he won’t have any burdensome restrictions, and he’ll be a free man despite being convicted on 34 felony counts. Fuck this country.
Omnes Omnibus
If the defendant knows that the conviction will be upheld, they very well may decide to go in fairly quickly so that they can get it over with and move on with their lives.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
Fascinating analysis.
Couple of points that might (?) illustrate the difference between Felonious D and Stewart/Bonds:
Stewart was convicted on 4 counts, not 34.
Bonds was convicted on 1 count, not 34.
I have no idea if the sheer number of counts in a conviction will factor into a suspended prison sentence or not.
FYI, we saw a great billboard on Friday along US-285 going east along the Denver burb of Lakewood. Showed just the Orange Fart Cloud’s eyes with the text “34 Felonies” superimposed. That was it.
Didn’t catch who paid for it other than some PAC.
TBone
@Omnes Omnibus:
Men. Explain. Things. To. Me.
Le sigh.
raven
@TBone: “I am the motherfucking shore patrol”!!
Ruckus
I like this – but.
This person, shitforbrains, has violated law and common decency (he is commonly indecent) because he thinks he is so dramatically better than EVERYONE ELSE. And the reality is that he is so far worse than most everyone else. His definition of, well everything, is done around the post that is stuck up his butt. (That might be his head…) He is and always has been one of the worst human beings. OK he may have not always been in the top ten but he’s always been in the top twenty. He NEVER should have been in a position of public trust and policy, he doesn’t have the temperament, the skills, the intelligence, or the personality to do the job.
Leto
OT: South Carolina implements one of US’s most restrictive public school book bans
Education superintendent and Moms for Liberty ally drafts law requiring all reading be ‘developmentally appropriate’
Again, anchor this shit to Trumpov and the entire MAGA Party. Have this as part of the overall message of them coming for everything you cherish.
Leto
@TBone: when we wonder why the lawyers in our midst don’t want to share their expertise in their areas, just circle back to this comment.
JoyceH
Here’s something that I don’t think got enough attention at the trial. It was from David Pecker’s testimony. Trump was charged with the hushing up of the negative stories about him, the Daniels story and (I think?) the McDougal story. But what came out in the testimony was a lot more than that. Trump and the Trump campaign entered into an agreement with the National Enquirer, not only to suppress true negative stories about Trump, but also to INVENT and publish FALSE negative stories about his rivals! That was a conspiracy to commit libel, and it sort of baffles me that it wasn’t charged. I know Pecker made some sort of deal, but dang, they could have charged Trump for it and listed Pecker as Unindicted Coconspirator One.
I think that needs to be talked about more, because frankly, it’s not normal, and it’s so outside normal that it needs to be emphasized and condemned. Yeah, campaigns do get cozy with sympathetic journalists, and they do leak oppo research and stuff like that. But a hard and fast agreement to INVENT negative stories? That’s in another realm altogether and it’s criminal, and it shouldn’t be shrugged off with ‘everybody does it’, because everybody does NOT do it.
Tony G
But but but — Joe Biden looked like an old man on Thursday! That’s what’s really important!
raven
It today Festivus?
Ruckus
@HumboldtBlue:
I don’t think so.
Yeah I do not expect a cell with bars, but one never knows. This is, if memory serves, the first in how many years/decades that a person who is or has been president has been in this situation. And I am using that word person with far more respect for the government than for the perp. This person should NEVER have been in a situation that would allow him power, because his ego is bigger than all outdoors. And worth less than a mosquito bite. Now to say that anyone else who has been president has never had an oversized ego would be a lie at best. But at least most of the ones before him had an understanding of propriety and didn’t think of themselves, at least publicly, as better than the rest of humanity – combined, and fulfilled the office with not unreasonable dignity, reserve and intelligence. He hit about 3% on each of those, at best. And he often was not doing anywhere close to best.
WaterGirl
@TBone: That was a BJ attorney explaining things to us, for which I am always grateful!
WaterGirl
@raven: Apparently so. I was late getting the memo.
TBone
@raven: 😆❤️🇺🇸
raven
@WaterGirl: And a really good person as well.
TBone
@WaterGirl: Attorneys have explained things to me for thirty years. Pardon my exasperation. Raven got the joke!
I started at my first law office at 18 y.o. for a firm that had a framed portrait of Richard Nixon prominently displayed. I had to stay on a tight leash for a loooong time!
Scout211
Most of the media reports are expecting the SCOTUS Trump immunity ruling tomorrow. Perusing the news online I see there are varying opinions from the legal experts, but they differ only slightly. Most of them expect that Trump will get a mixed ruling, with immunity for some of his actions but not for others. The big question is which is which?
Hoping for a big loss for Trump but bracing for a Trump win of sorts.
lollipopguild
@Ruckus: And yet, there are millions of our fellow americans who will happily vote for him in November. Some of them want him to be our GOD-KING(TM) for life. Many of them look at trump and see “normal”.
WaterGirl
@raven: Yes!
I am so grateful for our BJ attorneys. Some of my favorite commenters!
WaterGirl
@TBone: It felt like a complaint about mansplaining to me, not a joke. shrug
Baud
@lollipopguild:
I’m more chagrined at the voters who won’t vote for Biden.
E.
Fuckit. Finally applied the pie filter. Some commenters just don’t, over the course of time, add value.
ETA not one picture of pie. Tarts, tartlets, cookies, cake. No pie. Can I speak to the manager.
skerry
@TBone: Not helpful. Omnes was not mansplaining. He was lawyer-splaining. I appreciate the help our local attorneys provide.
TBone
@WaterGirl: the comment to which he replied contained a joke.
Good thing I watched Stripes again yesterday also too. Otherwise, I might be struggling to find anything funny today!
TBone
PILE ON! 😆
JoyceH
@Scout211:
I honestly don’t expect that the SC will make any definitive rulings about presidential immunity, because let’s remember, any ruling on presidential immunity would apply to ALL presidents, even if they’re Democrats. And even this SC doesn’t have the stones to put in writing that TRUMP is immune in these circumstances, but nobody else!
So my prediction is that they’ll issue a ruling saying that gee, presidents MAY have immunity for certain actions that are performed in the course of their official duties, and then send the case down the line for hearings on whether these specific circumstances meet the criteria. The whole point of the exercise will be to delay any trial until after the election.
WaterGirl
@E.: I’m sorry about the lack of pie. I think there are so pieces of in there. I will go look
Jinchi
If he gets jail time, I suspect the number of Republican strategists, anonymous politicians and right wing media voices who will insist that TFG must drop out “for the good of the country”, is the same as the number who insisted he needed to leave politics after he was convicted, or impeached, or sent an angry mob to trash the Capitol building.
TBone
@Raoul Paste: 💙
Jinchi
I imagine there must have been quite the run on the supply, over the last several days.
WaterGirl
@E.: You may pick up your pie at #32.
Apparently you need to pie more people, or you need more comments from the people who are pied. :-)
delphinium
False Advertising!!! : )
WaterGirl
@Jinchi: You may just have a point there, I hadn’t considered that!
WaterGirl
@delphinium: Dessert filter just didn’t have the same ring to it.
JaySinWA
@delphinium: With the death of Chevron, BJ and Watergirl are probably safe from FTC enforcement of truth in advertising.
Leto
@JaySinWA: she took a “gratuity” from Big Tart after the ruling.
JaySinWA
@WaterGirl: They won’t be happy until pie is the only thing on the menu.
Tony Jay
We interrupt your scheduled programming with two announcements from the International Sportsball Watchers box here at Couch Potato Gardens.
1) We apologise unreservedly for how mind-numbingly boring England have been in this tournament, and can only reiterate our firm commitment to going out in the next round when we play
absolutely anyone half decent up to and including the All-Comers 75+Retired Catholic Priests With Chronic Respiratory And Ophthalmic Issues Walking Football 5-a-side TeamSwitzerland.2) Georgia have weathered an onslaught from a dominant Spain and are now leading the favourites 1-0 after hitting them on the break. Yes, you read that right. Georgia. The other Georgia. Not the one from the songs, the one in the Caucasus. Now Spain are looking flustered and Georgia are playing some nice stuff. This. Is. FOOTBALL!!!
Leto
@Tony Jay: idk about nice stuff; they’re mainly weathering attacks, and occasionally having some type of counter. Most of which wither out by midfield but they have a loud crowd!
Tony Jay
@Leto:
When they get the ball back from the Spanish around their box they’re passing it with confidence, knocking it around the stretched Spanish midfield and playing really nice balls into the channels for their wingers to run into. It’s not tiki-taka, but it’s rakishly effective and has the Spaniards backpedaling time and again.
And bollocks. The Spanish score.
cain
@Tony Jay:
Speaking of which India won the T20 world cup a few days ago ! The world celebrations were 😍!
piratedan
I’ve seen it argued that if Michael Cohen did three years for his part for the same crime, then shouldn’t DJT, who authorized the illegality get at least the same?
Leto
@Tony Jay: They’re basically playing full defense, they’re able to get some quick balls out to their two forwards, where it’s then 2 v 5-6. And ofc the Spanish scored, because they’re playing Georgia. Not Ray Charles’ Georgia, the other one. No, not REM and raven’s Georgia but that other one.
Leto
@Tony Jay: I’m interested in tomorrow’s France v Belgium game. Also I’m, apparently, missing a good first two stages of the Tour de France where the heat is causing massive problems for riders. Yesterday’s first stage had Mark Cavendish displaying his former food processing system’s contents, and dropping others. I just have a 0530 wake up time problem :P
Edit: I will give credit to Georgia’s defense; they’re holding their shape, and can usually get 2 guys on to the Spaniard who’s trying to Flamenco his way in.
Delk
@Tony Jay: I always know when there is a tournament because my neighbor puts the Flags up.
Tony Jay
@cain:
I’ve tried to like cricket, really I have, but it hasn’t worked. Clearly my mostly Irish blood just can’t catch the fever and I’m left with the eternal question “How can nearly a billion people be so very wrong?” 🤣
raven
@Leto: Their induction into the songwriters hall of fame was a big deal here!
Jackie
@Leto:
Lassie won’t pass the LBGTQ test: Lassie, the TV dog, was actually male dog(s) posing as female.
raven
@Delk: That’s funny, there is a Lincoln Square in WG’s Urbana!
Leto
@raven: I watched that video you posted a few weekends ago, with them being interviewed by CBS. It was really good! I always enjoy the “behind-the-scenes” interviews where you can find out more about the process, and such. Them, the B-52s, and OutKast are pretty much my definitive GA sound.
raven
@Jackie: The Courage of Lassie was the third film and featured the pup and Liz Taylor. Lassie is in combat and suffers from PTSD and ends up in court!
Tony Jay
@Leto:
France should have too much for this aging Belgian team of excellent players who have never quite believed they could do it at international level. That said, if Mmm-Bop isn’t on song France can look a little blunt, and Belgium have players who can really hurt you in the blink of an eye.
I heard about the TDF carnage. You just can’t function in that heat, especially not in a sport like professional cycling where the level of effort and need for precision is so absolute. Those are fit guys, if they’re chucking up their probiotics then half the planet would be dead on the side of the mountain.
lowtechcyclist
@Tony Jay:
Whaddaya mean, not the one from the songs? Is too! That Georgia’s always on my mi-mi-mi-mi-mind, or at least that’s what the Beatles said!
trnc
@JoyceH:
Biden will not lead an insurrection even if presidents are given immunity for that. Maybe some future democrat would, but that kind of immunity is only something that lawless republicans are more likely to do in the near future.
Tony Jay
@Delk:
Ha! That’s a great idea.
Leto
@Jackie: and ofc Romeo and Juliet will be banned, because taking the appropriate Clarence Thomas view, only men were allowed to play female parts so… uhm… one twisted, convoluted reasoning later… that’s why we can’t have literature!
raven
@Leto: We were at a Georgia Tech-Virginia Tech Game and OutCast was the halftime show. We were the ONLY people in the stadium that didn’t know all their lyrics!!!
Barry
@JoyceH: “And even this SC doesn’t have the stones to put in writing that TRUMP is immune in these circumstances, but nobody else!”
Explicitly, no. For all practical purposes, yes. That’s what I expect.
Delk
@raven: hah, and the next neighborhood over is Ravenswood. A lot of things named Raven over there, lol.
NotMax
@raven
On Maui there’s a shopping area named (with signage) Triangle Square.
Jackie
@raven: 😳😢
raven
@Delk: I played Pop Warner Football on the Elmhurst team and we played at the Ravenswood Y. The field was cinders and they city boys kicked our burb asses!
raven
@NotMax: We have an Iron Triangle in Athens. . .tough hood.
Leto
@Tony Jay: Yeah, Belgium has never quite lived up to the fabled promise. All those legacies… but I agree that if Mmmm-bop isn’t there, then they’re flat and vulnerable. But I suspect that Du-bop will be there.
TDF: but climate change isn’t real! Just because almost all of France is getting too hot for their vineyards, and your neck of the woods is the New France… I know they’re in Italy atm, and I gotta say from personal experience Italy at this time of year is f’ing hot, it still brings back to question if they’re going to be able to continue the Tour in July. I feel like they’re going to keep going until they kill a rider/riders, and then it still might not be enough.
Delk
@raven: one bedrooms 3 grand a month.
lowtechcyclist
@NotMax:
Where on Maui? My wife and I have been there twice, and we’d have remembered that if we’d seen it!
(Of course, the last time we were there was 2004, so plenty of time to rename something in the meantime…)
Leto
@raven: as long as you two shook your rumps, then it was all good :)
raven
@Delk: Nice, makes our 900 sq ft rental a steal!
WaterGirl
@piratedan: YES
raven
@Leto: It was a cold as shit night game so we was movin!
prostratedragon
@Jackie: Doggy drag! My goodness, that sounds gutter.
Last night’s Noir Alley flick, No Questions Asked from MGM, featured an unexpected drag scene. Good movie overall.
Leto
Man… first fast break was poop but that long attempt with the Spanish keep way far out… ooof, so close!
Edit: I know the GA squad is listed as a 5-3-2 formation, but it’s basically an 8-2 formation.
lowtechcyclist
Back on the subject for a moment, what I’d like to see would be house arrest at Trump Tower, rather than at Mar-A-Lardo. I don’t expect there’s a chance he’ll be sentenced to an actual prison facility, unless he commits some massively egregious probation violation. But house arrest, and specifically house arrest within the court’s jurisdiction, is something I could see happening.
And if in NYC rather than at Mar-A-Lardo, it does limit the number of staff he’d have available on site to do everything for him, and no being cheered when he showed up at the MAL dining room. And no matter how big his Trump Tower unit is by NYC standards, it would surely be a lot more confining than whatever private space he has within the MAL complex. So that’s my hope, however farfetched.
Leto
And Spain knocks it in. Great block on the direct kick, but didn’t get the man on that cross.
lowtechcyclist
And can’t forget: Steve Bannon goes to jail, goes directly to jail, TOMORROW!
Tony Jay
@Leto:
We were in Italy last Summer. The train tracks in Sicily melted, there were constant bushfires in the hills, and on the way back they wouldn’t let us take the night train without AC because the heat was killing even in the early hours of the morning.
But there’s clearly no climate change. It rained in Vienna.
Renie
So we had the American Revolution to get rid of a king, so it will be interesting to see how Corrupt Clarence rationalizes the Founding Fathers thought a president should have full immunity for anything.
Jackie
Here’s some positive news!
Leto
@Tony Jay: oh yeah, southern Italy is friggin hot. We were there two years ago in May, and it was still toasty. When we lived there, 2011-2013, we were up near Milan and from Jun to Sept it was just… hot. South Carolina hot.* August was the worst. The military mandated a few years before that any rental property we rented had to have A/C. Even with our utility allowance (extra money), it was still a fortune to run the A/C because of how much electricity it used. And we only used it for a few hours a night to cool our two bedrooms, for basically 1-2 weeks. That was the entire allowance. We heavily utilized air flow, sunshades, and fans to mitigate it as much as we could.
*basically Sicily for comparison.
Leto
@Jackie: two highest cash raising periods was the hour before, and hour after the debate.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@E.:
Yup. Problem is some of the people that push crap stuff here will keep doing that and need pushing back on. It’s the only reason I don’t pie them. On twitter, such self-professed progressive people pushing crap stuff, they’re referred to as “reply guys”, they’re always ready to get the last word in.
Leto
The two Georgian players who just came in are basically twins, but with different eyebrows. Even their names are basically the same, but their parents just put a few different syllables in front to tell them apart.
WaterGirl
@lowtechcyclist: I want him sentenced to a military facility jail, like they did with Watergate.
Scout211
Admittedly, I’m an old who is not on social media, but this is very educational. Thanks. I guess on social media there is a name for everything. Who knew?
WaterGirl
@Jackie: Last I saw, it had been $16 million. Yay!
Baud
@Jackie:
These are my people.
WaterGirl
@Jackie: Speaking of positive news,
Great job everyone!
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@WaterGirl:
Money, for better or worse, will speak louder in the aftermath of the debate and what it’s consequences (or lack thereof) end up being.
Ka-CHING!!!!!!!
Eyeroller
@Baud: In addition to several emails a day I get old fashioned letters, so I sent an old-fashioned check yesterday, though it won’t go out till Monday. I sent a check of a similar size when Biden was struggling in the primaries in 2020 so maybe this will be good luck too.
Kristine
@Jackie: Great news.
zhena gogolia
@Jackie:
“some backlash” — haha, that’s an understatement!
Leto
@WaterGirl: Leavenworth is where we send our people to turn big rocks into small rocks, and then turn those small rocks back into big rocks. When my people would look at me quizzically, and ask, “How do you turn small rocks into big rocks”, I typically responded, “Well, fuck up bad enough and you’ll find out.” I’m honestly out of patience with us not… firmly enforcing punishments. And I realize that might not be the best mindset, but I’m working on it.
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
Not despite, because.
WaterGirl
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: It’s the narrative that’s more damaging than the performance, and a lot of that is coming from bad actors on the national level with an axe to grind or a grudge or just wanting to be right when they didn’t support Biden all along.
Hopefully the big money raise will dampen that narrative.
The thing that makes me mad is whoever started the rumor that Joe was going to talk to his family this weekend at Camp David, to decide whether he should stay in the rce.
Dirty tricks.
Leto
And Spain puts the nail in the coffin. Brilliant pass, and finish.
Baud
Saving democracy: $33 million
Village tears: Priceless
zhena gogolia
@Baud: ABSOLUTELY
zhena gogolia
@WaterGirl: My husband all along has been, “Biden won’t drop out. He’ll stay in, and he’ll win.”
He doesn’t watch or read any news. He gets it all from me.
gene108
Trump gets fined $100 and has to 1 hour of community service at some point in the next 100 years whenever it’s convenient.
The justice system, especially the federal courts, are a sick fucking joke.
Appoint the judges who decide your fate, with the judge knowing doing the defendant a favor can lead to a couple of promotions in short order.
Have a man indicted in federal court, with the real possibility the next job he gets will let him dismiss the charges against him, and make sure those trials can’t happen until after the election.
lowtechcyclist
@WaterGirl:
I missed that part, and believe me, I followed the whole Watergate saga avidly! Which of Nixon’s henchmen got put in a military jail? (Too bad he didn’t get put in one himself.)
Matt McIrvin
@JoyceH:
But only the complete shitheads would actually use it to do something immoral, so this would give Republicans a decisive advantage.
Citizen Alan
@Tony G: I wonder if hillary clinton ever mentioned in one of her emails that joe biden was old.
Leto
@gene108: which is why you point out to the normies the differences between Trumpov’s and Biden’s appointments. Biden has appointed judges, and it’s “his” DoJ, yet his son has been charged and found guilty, and you also have Bob Mendendez on trial right now. Versus the shit the Supreme Court is doing with the Jan 6th fucks, as well as Cannon down there fucking things up in the classified docs case. And you present the choice as clear as that: Corruption v integrity. And you bat aside all the bothsiderism/whataboutism bullshit they can muster.
Leto
@Citizen Alan: that was the special ingredient in the risotto recipe.
Leto
Reporting live from our #blackjobs.
Baud
@Leto:
Awesome.
Layer8Problem
@WaterGirl: BLUEBERRY#!$!!@!
Shoot, am I too late?
wjca
They might, however, define immunity to apply to specific acts that Trump committed, but nobody else (Democrat or Republican) would do. With veerry careful wording, that could have the same effect, without saying the quiet part out loud.
Expect them to be irritated at having taken all that effort. Only to have Trump announce, at the top of his voice, that “his” Supreme Court has held him immune from anything.
Another Scott
@JoyceH: +1
I have assumed that that was the consensus about the most likely result from the not-insane lawyers that I occasionally skim.
The whole point of this is to delay any legal resolution for TCFFG’s cases until after the election. They’ll kick it back downstairs with some nebulous instructions that give his lawyers some hope, and we hear about the “bigly great victory” and on and on. More delay, more frustration in people who can understand the plain meaning of words and remember what they saw with their own lying eyes on January 6, and more calls for One Weird Trick from a Strong Leader to fix everything.
We’ll see.
Grr…,
Scott.
skerry
@lowtechcyclist:
Charles Colson — served on special counsel to President Richard Nixon from 1969 to 1973 and plead guilty to obstruction of justice in 1974 in connection with Watergate scandal. He served seven months at Maxwell and was released in 1975.
John Mitchell — the former U.S. Attorney General under President Richard Nixon served 19 months at Maxwell in connection with the Watergate scandal and was freed on parole Jan. 20, 1979.
Sister Golden Bear
@Renie: SCOTUS: It’s OK if you’re a Republican. Because reasons. That we made up.
Layer8Problem
@Citizen Alan: No, but “many people were saying” that John Podesta did, as an aside in his famous risotto recipe email*.
* By all that’s holy I just made that up.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
I’m in the middle of a massive biography, nominally of “The Devil’s Brood”, aka Henry II of England and his children, Richard and John, Kings At War.
Trump is a modern day John. It’s eery. The lust, the avarice, the betrayals, the rebellion (John led one against Richard when he was Crusading), everything.
One of western Europe’s worst personages (outside of the modern, industrial strength ones like Hitler) and that’s saying something. Hair Furor is damn near a carbon copy.
rikyrah
What are some Black jobs?
a response from the Omega Psi Phi conclave:
tiktok.com/t/ZTNjcJy5J/
WaterGirl
@zhena gogolia: Yeah, until or unless I hear it from Biden, I’m assuming no about face. Even if warranted, which I don’t think it is, I think that would give the election to the Rs.
Either way, we’ll know for sure soon enough. Because if something was gonna change, it would have to happen lickety split.
TBone
@WaterGirl: and that was the plot of the movie I made a joke about. The prisoner practically volunteered to go to military prison, but at the last minute tried to run away, sorta half-heartedly. His military detail buddies promptly beat the crap outta him and took him to military prison (which they’d been avoiding for days out of sympathy), where they were immediately berated for beating the shit out of said prisoner. Just by way of explanation 😉
WaterGirl
@lowtechcyclist: John Dean.
WaterGirl
@Leto: That’s awesome, but I want to see one with Barack Obama as President, with troops saluting him.
#blackjobs
WaterGirl
@Layer8Problem: I’m sorry, we are all out of blueberry!
jackmac
@Tony Jay: I think that’s the sentiment many Americans had in the past about soccer.
TBone
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: ain’t history grand?
brendancalling
If this trial has shown anything, it’s that we DO have a two-tiered Justice system—it’s just that it’s tilted to people like Trump, not people like you and me. I mean, if any of us were on trial and talking shit to the press about the judge and threatening the judge’s family, we’d be IN JAIL. No questions asked. Do not pass go.
So I don’t expect much of a punishment. Anyone who IS expecting something severe smokes more weed than I do.
WaterGirl
@brendancalling:
LOL
Salty Sam
Re: the image up top (“No, I haven’t seen the cat…”)
Appropriate: youtube.com/shorts/fCka_JlrUS8?si=QRQtVK6o07VY_m5
Jackie
@WaterGirl: 👍🏻👏🏻👏🏻👍🏻
rikyrah
Veronica McDonald🗣 (@Purify_toast17) posted at 3:53 PM on Sun, Jun 30, 2024:
Remember, the media wants a Trump win. Biden stepping down ensures a Trump win. “Democratic strategists” want a Trump win. Sore losers for Bernie/Warren want their candidate installed (which ensures a Trump win) Biden staying in the means Trump will not cruise to an easy win.
(x.com/Purify_toast17/status/1807517951454511373?t=xAMFZy0jJmddKK-tS3jq0Q&s=03)
Gloria DryGarden
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: Jesus god!
I can’t/ a lot of folks won’t, read this sort of history. How can you get this out in front of a whole lot more people? Write an article for rolling stone, or the Atlantic, an opinion piece in some valid newspaper source?
it sounds , like, important. Oh, I mean, IMPORTANT.
WHAT MIGHT you do to promote this angle? Drop a hint to Heather cox Richardson? Oh dear…
frog
@JoyceH:
One of the MSNBC shows said the up-side was that the evidence against Trump will get publicly spilled as the appeals process runs.
Ruckus
@lowtechcyclist:
Aw, July 1, a wonderful day. Practice for Independence Day.
When Steve ShitBannon reports for duty, behind bars.
NotMax
@lowtechcyclist
Not particularly noticeable. On the way out of town, where the turnoff from the main road to the airport is. If you can see Denny’s, that’s it.
NotMax
@Ruckus
Not in any way related, also the national celebration there of Canada Day.
Splitting Image
@rikyrah:
It needs repeating especially that the media want Trump to win, especially the New York Times. The biggest question this year isn’t anything to do with Biden, it’s about whether voters will allow themselves to get rolled yet again by the “liberal media”.
It is still within living memory that CNN announced a “pivot to the right” and gave Trump a town hall so he could broadcast a campaign speech without interruption. Didn’t fact check him then either. This was only last year.
Before that the New York Times went all in on Hillary Clinton being at death’s door, and when that didn’t work, pivoted back to the emails and spent the entire last week of the campaign running story after story about the Comey letter.
They also once published a story about how widespread inflation was going to hurt Joe Biden on the same day that they published a story about how deep discounts in stores during the holiday season were going to cut into store profits and hurt Joe Biden.
There has got to be a point where you say “enough is enough”.
brendancalling
@WaterGirl: is that a rumor? It’s reported as fact in the Washington Post, the FTNYT, and other sources
Ruckus
@Leto:
Aww Italy. 1972, I was there in the middle of summer, Naples was such a nice town for US sailors.
We only got switchblades pulled on us once.
Two of them, six of us. They offered to help us, with the switchblades, to carry any money we might have. We offered them 2 of us while the other 4 beat them senseless and possibly not breathing. They retracted their offer and left.
Layer8Problem
@WaterGirl: Well, it does stain like nobody’s business . . .
WaterGirl
@brendancalling: Well, I read that the Biden campaign denied it, so I assumed it was a rumor. It didn’t come from them; I would say that’s a rumor. No?
I hadn’t seen the other reporting.
Ruckus
@NotMax:
I’m torn. Canada is such a very nice place, but the concept that Stevie gets to spend 4 months in JAIL is just somehow better, more entertaining, more satisfying.
Raven
@TBone: When the jar heads grabbed Quaid by the arms and dragged him up the stairs you knew he wasn’t going to make it.
My cousin was a guard at the Portsmouth brig when he came home a they were not nice people.
Scout211
@brendancalling:
He did meet with family at Camp David but this is how it is being reported now.
Gloria DryGarden
also, re non-violent offenses…, isn’t there a pretty big undercurrent of violence, calling the crazy ones to do his hoped-for violence, raping a lady in a dressing room, etc. not related to this case, but, connected to the man himself. Inciting hate and hated crimes against “minority “ groups. I mean, isn’t that like pouring out emotional gasoline, and giving people matches?
He’s basically a mental health arsonist… or a guy hiring hit men to do it for him..
ok, so, well, if he doesn’t have to stfu, lose his communications and lose his ability to incite and divide, if we don’t get a break from his deeply disappointing freedom to do and say whatever, and we continue to have to get tangled up and pulled down by it like whales tangled in fishing nets and nearly dying, then
perhaps we can create a whole gallery of beautiful locked-up art, and stories of the peace and radio silence….
something to fulfill our desires through fiction and art at least.
unfortunately, this roiling waiting for some protection for the country from this vile creature, the anger simmering in vast underground chambers like a geyser waiting to burst out, it doesn’t inspire art. It inspires me to buy matches….
Sure Lurkalot
Can I dream? I want Trump sentenced to a room with a one way window, camera on 24/7, without his face paint and hair glop, communication devices, adderall or whatever else it is he uses. No food he likes and one book for “entertainment” (doesn’t matter which, no one can convince me the fucker can read).
30 days in that hole for the a-hole.
Miki
@TBone: Not a man, but that was my thought when I read your comment.
There was the time when I clerked for a state court judge and administered the oath to a defendant who entered an Alford Plea to murdering and dismembering a woman he picked up in a bar.
There was a shit ton of forensic evidence in the case, so the plea itself was not especially surprising. My impression of the guy was he really wanted it over and was more than ready to face the punishment but not yet ready to face the facts of what he did.
Suzanne
@brendancalling:
Written in 1764:
Yes to everything you said.
zhena gogolia
@Scout211: When in journalism school do they teach people to use phrases like “chucking under the bus”?
zhena gogolia
@Scout211: Of course it’s the nefarious HUNTER BIDEN who wants him to stay in.
Leto
@Ruckus: I don’t know if that still holds true, but we were repeatedly warned about “the gypsies”. Idk, never had an issue nor did anyone else.
@Raven: I love my crayon connoisseurs, but in general, no they’re not nice.
Gloria DryGarden
@zhena
BE IT SO
Eyeroller
@Scout211: Reading between the lines there I’d say the meeting was more about whom to fire than whether Biden should stay in the race. Oh my lack of God this is so stupid. Biden surely has enough political savvy and experience to understand that his leaving the race would be much, much worse.
But I think Kay would be happy if Anita Dunn is fired. I don’t know much about her other than she seems to be an Obama leftover, but perhaps Kay knows more.
WaterGirl
@Scout211: Wow. Bob Bauer and Ron Klein.
I say again, wow.
Bob Bauer in 2020 was behind the whole legal strategy for fighting election chaos in 2020. Yikes
Another Scott
@Scout211:
BREAKING – BorowitzReport exclusive – Joe Biden rumored to be replaced by Hunter Biden at the top of the Democratic ticket.
Cheers,
Scott.
Leto
@Scout211: I trust Peter Baker about as far as I can flex my knees.
Gloria DryGarden
@lowtechcyclist: they do have a special lock up prison place for famous and high security persons. I’m assuming it doesn’t serve five star restaurant food, and doesn’t allow free internet use.. I really want him to go inside.
even if he doesn’t have to wear the nice orange jumpsuit I monogrammed for him. Shit, I’ll have to burn that, too.
Harrison Wesley
@Leto: My oldest friend is in the process of selling her house in SC to move closer to her relatives in NC. I’ll ask her what she’s heard about this – I suspect not much, since she didn’t mention it in conversation this morning.
WaterGirl
@Another Scott: Hey, Hunter could pardon himself!!! :-) //
Leto
@WaterGirl: and he’s married to Anita Dunn. Apparently both of them go back to the early, early 80s with Biden. Also there’s this from her time as White House Comms Director, under Obama:
Her wiki.
Again, I trust Peter Baker about as much as I trust no-sugar desserts.
WaterGirl
@Another Scott:
hahahahaha
gene108
@Scout211:
Wouldn’t it be normal for a campaign to review the performance of the people that set up a bad strategy?
That’s not throwing people under the bus. That’s holding people accountable.
Baud
@gene108:
The accountability bus.
zhena gogolia
Really pissed at Penzey’s.
Martin
I still contend that Merchan will see that anything other than incarceration will provide no corrective benefit or remedy to the public harm, and will be forced to sentence to incarceration.
Miki
@Baud: One of my favorite normy person in the universe posted this yesterday –
“For God’s sake, Trump has made literally thousands of incoherent statements. Biden spoke well and coherently the day after the debate. I have zero respect for these people on the fence who have decided one wobbly debate performance is a reason to change their vote from a vote for democracy to a vote for fascism.”
Then she quoted Heather Cox Richardson’s description of Gish Galloping.
Yep. There’s a lot of people who get it.
Ruckus
@Leto:
That one time was the only time and only place I ever had an issue. And it was resolved rather quickly. And in our favor, they retracted their blades and left. I think they understood that while we had a lot to lose, what we offered them would have quite possibly cost them more. Not one of the six of us gave any indication of not being willing to adjust their posture from standing vertical to laying horizontal and becoming rather bruised. And possibly unable to feel said bruises. All we did was raise the cost of them playing their game. To a quite possibly extremely costly level.
JPL
@zhena gogolia: I’ll vote for the democratic nominee whatever, but can’t help but think that Ruth stayed long and look what happened. It was her choice though.
The ads against Biden are going to be lit, both on the air and social media. So those like me who didn’t watch the debate will see it.
Baud
@Miki:
Maybe normies get being picked on for being imperfect.
Jackie
@brendancalling: The family being at Camp David is true. This was planned BEFORE the debate.
Being there to discuss Joe dropping out is a FALSE rumor.
karen marie
@brendancalling: I remember people stealing national security documents and getting tossed straight into jail.
WaterGirl
@zhena gogolia: What did Penzey’s say or do?
If they talked about dumping Biden, I hope they get a giant EARFUL.
WaterGirl
@JPL:
Ruth?
Suzanne
@WaterGirl: RBG.
Gloria DryGarden
@TBone: I’m one of the people that needs the lawyer pov and explanations, since I don’t have that background.
so, I missed the joke, but I can understand your exasperation.
There’s people here like me, in 101, or 201 levels, glad to get clear info. (Explain it to me like I’m in kindergarten) Even if I’m the only one.
someone yesterday explained the birdsong, territories, etc, and it was new to me, so I liked reading it.
my song comes from a whole different land, so I’m happy to hear about other peoples information landscapes.
Another Scott
@Martin: I think that’s what should happen. It wouldn’t have to be long – most of it could be suspended/probation. But the man has absolute contempt for NY business rules, NY and federal tax rules, campaign rules, rules the judge imposed about the trial.
He needs to serve some time behind bars to get it through his thick skull that the laws actually do apply to him – not just “suckers” and “losers”.
So, 3 days in the slammer, 6 years suspended (Cohen got 3 years after pleading guilty, TCFFG hasn’t admitted his guilt) provided he satisfies probation, a big fine. He’d get out in time to go to his big party in the city he hates (one of many he hates), and everyone will see that, yes, a former POTUS can be sent to the slammer.
Not that I expect it, especially given the probability of appeal, but I think something like that is appropriate.
We’ll see!
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
JPL
@Suzanne: Thanks
VFX Lurker
I wrote ten Postcards to Voters in Florida for a school board election (Stephanie Vanos). Going to knuckle down and write more.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@TBone:
It’s funny but I’ve had plenty of English history both back in college and over the years in one of my hobbies. Thus, I knew John was awful despite a few 20th-century academic attempts to rehabilitate his image.
But, McClynn’s book is a very detailed take down of those attempted rehabilitations while clearly laying out John’s ‘inadequacies’.
Reading from page 472 onward, I honestly thought I was reading about Trump, okay without the executions and campaigns of terror in 1215-16. But damn near everything else? Incredible.
Historians (and people) talk about US Presidential rankings with Felonious D now being at the bottom. He makes presidents like Buchanan, Johnson, Pierce, et al, look positively brilliant, that’s simply how bad he was. Reading about a figure from medieval England and the modern echoes is sobering cuz in terms of a US Presidential context for the shitty presidents mentioned, there ain’t no historical antecedents like there is for the Orange Fart Cloud.
Frankensteinbeck
@JPL:
The ads based on the debate will show Trump bragging about ending Roe vs Wade. For anyone who bowed out early, you would not believe how Trump let it all hang out and was vile and repulsive. That’s not just how I interpreted him, all the post-debate feedback says it’s how undecideds saw him.
Miki
@Baud: Especially when they’re women in their late 60s.
Baud
@Miki:
Here’s hoping.
SiubhanDuinne
Maybe I’m misremembering, but wasn’t TCFFG going to announce his VP pick last week? And bring him or her to the debate?
Did I imagine that (not outside the realm of possibility), or did an announcement get lost in all the noise (remotely possible, I guess, but most unlikely), or is TCFFG simply stringing it out as long as he can, either because he’s a drama llama or he doesn’t know himself yet (very plausible indeed)?
lowtechcyclist
@Martin:
I hope you’re right, and certainly the arguments you made for this a few weeks ago made sense.
I can’t recall what you said about incarceration in a prison facility v. house arrest. My thought is it would take some serious stones on the judge’s part to put him in an actual lockup rather than house arrest.
Lord knows I’d like to see it, and if we were talking about sentencing after a conviction in the documents case or the insurrection case, anything less would be a travesty. This one, I’m not so sure. Your thoughts?
SiubhanDuinne
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
Just give him a little more time.
Gloria DryGarden
@Suzanne: love the poem. Yup
hervevillechaizelounge
@JoyceH:
I agree the Pecker/Trump agreement to cook up claptrap stories about the other candidates needs more attention.
How is this not a campaign contribution?
Jay
@Jackie:
Yup, triple yup.
I call bullshit that any of the media has access to Biden Family “meetings” or gatherings.
lowtechcyclist
@JPL:
can’t help but think that Ruth stayed long and look what happened. It was her choice though.
The problem was, 2014 was the last chance she had to resign and be reasonably sure of being replaced by an Obama nominee. (I say ‘reasonably’ because the filibuster on Supreme Court nominees was still in place then.) But once Mitch had his majority at the beginning of 2015, I doubt he was going to let Obama put anyone new on the Court.
Another Scott
Cheers,
Scott.
hueyplong
@WaterGirl: Babe Ruth had an embarrassing 1935 with the Boston Braves when he should have retired after 1934, but the reference was probably to the Notorious RBG.
Harrison Wesley
@SiubhanDuinne: I thought he was going to announce it at the same time he revealed his new infrastructure plan.
Geminid
@Jackie: That is a key element of this story that many of the reports left out. The White House posted a schedule last Sunday, June 23 that included a stay at Camp David from today until Tuesday.
Bupalos
@WaterGirl: I really think we should stay away from this kind of borderline conspiracy thinking wrt “The Media” or shadowy “insiders” creating a narrative for their own purposes.
Biden Freaked. People. The Fuck. Out. He did. He validated a narrative the opposition has been hammering away at for more than 4 years, ground that was pre-plowed and fertilized for the seeds he tossed out there. He’s 81 years old campaigning to be president at age 85. He’s got footage on tape (outside what the Trumpers are faking) that looks fairly McConnell-like. All of this is more than enough to create an organic political reaction that underlines the polling, which is now years old, that most people of both parties think Biden is simply too old to be president into 2027. He does not fit their image of what that office is.
And the people who feel it more than you or I do (a lot of Democrats) would receive what you’re saying as an accusation of them, that they are part of or dupes of a conspiracy. I’m the first person to say that the conversation here is not primarily directed outwards, but I do encourage thinking about the implications of this kind of thinking
I for one think Biden really is considering his options here, really is shaken by his own performance… and reading between the lines of some people I politically respect above Biden, I think the smarter balance of the party is holding out hope he will be convinced to step aside.
Another Scott
@Harrison Wesley: If past is prologue, he’ll change his mind after scheduling the announcement and want someone else instead.
Cheers,
Scott.
Old School
@Bupalos:
I guess I haven’t seen this footage. Which one is this?
Gloria DryGarden
(copied from an earlier thread.)
Yes. In light of this,
Once again, write a list of the qualities and outcomes you want in the USA, and put it on your mantel, read it every day, light a candle, find the work you can do.
WaterGirl
@Suzanne: Aah.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Eyeroller: The people we just spent an hour with firmly believe Biden should withdraw and there must be a way to transfer the campaign money to someone other than Harris. Or maybe Harris can stay on the ticket as VP and “someone else” be at the top of the ticket.
Btw, their favorite candidate would be Pete B.
TBone
@Raven: that’s what I’d like to see happen to Dotard! Muscle him right up the steps & through the bars. Click! goes the barred door behind him! If it was good enough to throw Michael Cohen into solitary, it’s just plain perfect for Dotard.
Isn’t Randy Quaid a hardcore Trumper now, also too?
You know exactly what I’m talking about when almost no one else here seems to, it is a comfort!! 💙
Your cousin had brass balls. Cojones!
TO THE BRIG WITH THE BALL GARGLING THUNDER TWAT!
Bupalos
@Old School: I was a little shook by the juneteenth footage, which apparently isn’t doctored. It’s not any kind of serious responsibility he’s failing of course, but it’s alarming. I see the well-hidden concern from the gentleman to his left.
Harrison Wesley
@Another Scott: And, of course, deny that he’s changed his mind. “Fake news!”
sab
@Dorothy A. Winsor: I doubt Mayor Pete is on board with that project.
WaterGirl
@Bupalos:
I don’t think that’s conspiracy thinking or even borderline. Thumb on the scale against Hillary. Repeatedly. Constantly. check. Giving Trump a pass. Repeatedly. Constantly. check, check.
If you don’t think the media has their own agenda, beyond reporting news, I think you’re not paying attention.
Eyeroller
@Geminid: Doesn’t fit The Narrative.
I would not be surprised if they do a debate post-mortem, but I’m sure Joe has activities for the 3rd-5th or so, so this would be a good chance for a quiet family getaway prior to July 4 activities. But we must not let facts get in the way of The Narrative.
One thing that I observed from the reports was that the people mentioned (Anita Dunn etc.) seemed to be Obama holdovers. I wonder whether they completely failed to understand that Joe isn’t Barack. Barack was a wonk. Joe is not. Joe has a speech impediment. I’ve seen some dismissive comments such as “I don’t want a President who can’t handle cold medicine” but I don’t think that was the problem at all. I wish we had a speech therapist among the commentariat here. The description I found of “clustering” sounded exactly like what happened–too-fast talking, words merged, other words clipped. It’s less common than stuttering but often occurs alongside it. The stress of trying to remember all those statistics could easily have triggered his fluency disorder.
Harrison Wesley
@TBone: Maybe get him prepped by having him watch The Night Of straight through.
Jay
@Old School:
He’s talking about how the first 20 minutes of his performance at the debate reinforces the media/GrOPer narrative that “Biden is Old”.
On the other hand the Felon’s entire performance at the debate reinforces our narrative that he is Evil and “The Dumbest Person You Will Ever Meet.
SiubhanDuinne
@Harrison Wesley:
So in two weeks then.
Bupalos
@WaterGirl: I don’t need to deny that there is a real slant in coverage towards whatever makes them money to see signing this off as a nefarious media creation as trending too far outside reality.
People are freaked out. Media will descend when people are freaked out. There is some amplification. But this is not created by the media.
Miss Bee
@Gloria DryGarden: I love this post. We keep waiting for protection, for correction.
Thank you.
Eyeroller
@Dorothy A. Winsor: ”Some way”
SiubhanDuinne
@Another Scott:
Yes, I was remembering that he did some fairly public second-guessing about Vice President Ambulatory Wonder Bread with Miracle Whip.
Old School
@Bupalos:
The one where he isn’t dancing?
Biden’s arms are moving, so it doesn’t really seem like he’s having an episode like McConnell to me.
TBone
@Harrison Wesley: see, now, there you stumped me. But I took 2 seconds to look it up and YES, by all means! Prop his eyes open like A Clockwork Orange! 😆
Bupalos
@Old School: I dunno. It looks very odd to me. I think the guy on his left thinks it’s very odd and is considering whether he needs to do something.
eclare
@Harrison Wesley:
That mini series was so good.
Eyeroller
@Old School: McConnell has problems but he is not demented. Why is this even a comparison. McConnell’s main problem is likely post-polio syndrome. McConnell has also had severe falls due to PPS which could account for his freezes.
eclare
I watched the new documentary on Jonestown recently, and the parallels between TCFG and Jim are striking. One member of the doomed congressional delegation that went to Jonestown even said “the first thing I noticed was that he dyed his hair.”
Highly recommend, on Hulu.
Geminid
@Eyeroller: One way of it putting is, the debate team missed the forest for the trees. The mission wasn’t to convince viewers that Joe Biden can stay on top of a complex job; the mission was to pound Trump’s weaknesses.
It’s like they outlined a good three part answer for every anticipated question. They’d have done better to plan a short simple answer and then an attack on Trump for his incapacity and mistakes in the area at issue.
Another Scott
WhiteHouse.gov (from 6/29):
More at the link.
Cheers,
Scott.
Baud
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Pete B is great, but next time tell them we’re going to do what Democrats do best and ram Joe Biden down their throats.
TBone
@eclare: Rep. Jackie Speier:
msn.com/en-us/news/world/congresswoman-jackie-speier-jonestown-survivor-trump-has-all-the-trappings-…
eclare
@Geminid:
They should have just told Joe to repeat that great line from My Cousin Vinny over and over, paraphrased: everything that guy just said is a lie.
Geoduck
@SiubhanDuinne: Last I heard, the Shiatgibbon was going to announce his VP pick at the GOP convention, but obviously that could change at a moment’s notice.
Martin
@Scout211: After some rewatching, I think most of Biden problem Thursday was the wrong debate strategy given the nature and constraints.
They have a bias toward giving detailed factual information of specific accomplishments in debates against a guy that is wholly unburdened by detail or facts. Further, I suspect part of Biden’s approach for dealing with his stutter, which usually manifests in the students I worked with when they are consciously searching for words (this is why people with bad stutters can usually sing quite easily – singing isn’t a process of word choosing, it’s a flow of a known patterns), is to rely on notes for the things he wants to state specifically. There are a lot of different ways of expressing support for abortion using a lot of different words and word patterns, but there’s only one way to say ‘Inflation Reduction Act’ and it’s with those 3 words in that order, and reading that off a note eliminates the need to do the word search.
It looked in the beginning of the debate that Biden was working VERY hard to do recall of a memorized answer in order to get those specific words out without a search (as he was prevented form notes). And as the debate went on, he loosened up and returned more to his extemporaneous speech which he’s quite good at.
My guess is that they need to give up on the usual Democratic recitation of accomplishments, because nobody gives a shit. Trump is a vibes guy, he expresses grievance and wishcasting, and that’s where you need to meet him, with a fiery expression and defense of democratic values. If he wants to refer to accomplishments, do it in the abstract – we ‘passed a law that did that’ as though the law were common knowledge. For most of the audience it will be common knowledge and for the audience that it isn’t he’s signaling that it ought to be – go look it up.
I suspect if they change their attitude regarding the next debate to be more freewheeling, where Biden is quite good, and more values focused where Biden gets more energized, that’ll be fine. He shouldn’t be memorizing shit, find all the things he would write on notes and excuse him from even mentioning them. Sure, that might result in him completely not answering a debate prompt but who gives a shit – they usually do that anyway, and nobody is keeping score on that. I wouldn’t even work on a prepared opening/closing as the rules allow. Just wing it. They don’t need to be particularly factual to make Trump look like a liar – he does that naturally.
Just my experienced opinion having prepared lots of students to give lots of different kinds of talks including specific work with students with speech impediments, heavy accents, various mental blocks, etc. Some speakers can adapt to a wide range of approaches, and some can’t. I’m quite good at extemporaneous speaking on matters which I am a domain expert, I am quite good at high stakes persuasive talks (like a debate), I’m quite good at debate. I’m not good at speaking on matters I don’t have a very high degree of confidence in (even if I know the subject matter well enough), or on middling stakes things. I’m not good at prepared remarks like a formal speech – I come off as stilted. Almost everyone is like this with their own strengths and weaknesses and when you are in a format that doesn’t play to your strength, discard as much of that as you can so it conforms best to your approach and just live with that. You might lose points because it didn’t match expectations, but you’ll do so much better that it’ll compensate for that.
My first job in education was almost a fluke. I had applied for a bunch of stuff and before hearing back from the university people took a full time job at a startup. When they called for the interview I was in the middle of something and just off-handedly agreed to the interview to get off the phone ASAP, and later that day regretted doing that because I had just started at this startup. I told my wife I was going to cancel and she insisted that I go through with it because she didn’t like the startup job and thought the university job would be a better fit for me (she was right). So I go into this interview and I. am. not. feeling. it. I don’t want to be there and I’m uncomfortable, which is immediately apparent. The first 5 minutes of the interview is a train wreck, so after one question of the panel taking turns to ask me questions, I ask if I could just read the question off myself and then answer and we can take as much time as they need. They are not prepared for the interviewee to take over the interview but agree to it – after all, it couldn’t get any worse (it could, I once had a woman break down into inconsolable sobbing in the middle of an interview). And taking control of the interview immediately turned it around for me and the rest went great. At one point I asked if we rearrange a few questions because I thought it would create a more cohesive flow. And they hired me despite the terrible start. I took a chance on breaking the format of the interview to something that was more conducive to how I work. That 100% could have backfired, but it was already backfiring.
And Biden can’t just rewrite the rules of the debate, but he can rewrite his approach to the debate, and what he thinks the audiences expectation is to something that works for him.
Seeing ’emphasis on statistics’ makes me want to punch something. What fucking idiot came up with that idea?
eclare
@TBone:
I think it was she who made the comment about his hair. If you have Hulu, it’s really well done. And the parallels are scary.
gwangung
@gene108:
Duh, yes.
And this is the quality of reporting from the media elite.
Martin
@eclare: Get the line right: “Everything that guy just said is bullshit.”
And yes, that line goes through my head as well.
zhena gogolia
@WaterGirl: It was kind of “people are talking about it” with no defense of Biden.
eclare
@Martin:
Agree. If voters responded to policy wonks and statistics, we’d have a President Hillary Clinton or Elizabeth Warren now.
Obama’s whole message was “hope and change” and “yes, I can.” People responded to the messages emotionally. Joe should do what he does best, connect emotionally.
karen marie
@Bupalos:
I’m sorry, WHAT?
Jay
@Eyeroller:
I generally don’t hold with Ye Ancient Internet Tradition of “remote diagnosis”, more so in light of the first 20 minutes of the CNN Not Debate.
In the run up to the CNN Not Debate, the general consensus here, based on President Joe Biden’s public speeches and the SOTU performance and Sundowning Felon 34’s public appearances and Court appearances that Joe was going to wipe the floor with him.
But like I said, this was in no way a proper “debate”.
President Biden did well, once he adjusted to the format, which was question, answer, no fact checking, no moderation between a guy who tried to answer the question and a guy who brought the crazy.
From what we know so far, Felon 34 lost support, President Biden’s remained the same, other than the The Usual Suspects.
WaterGirl
@Geminid: You’re hired for the next debate team. I hope there isn’t another debate.
I think Biden should just come out and say you can’t debate someone who lies non-stop, and I’m not gonna do it.
Eyeroller
@zhena gogolia: If Joe were a Republican, every single Republican with a platform would be singing from the same hymnal. “Joe has a stutter and he had a big problem with it for the first part of the debate.” “Joe had an off night, he’s fine. I’ve talked to him and he is perfectly cogent.” I happen to think this is completely true, but it wouldn’t matter to the Rs whether it was true or not. Instead we get pantswetting from the well-intentioned and sabotage from those not so well intentioned.
Chris Johnson
The thing is, I’m a bit surprised Bannon is going to prison, and Bannon must be even more surprised. It’s in line with some of my expectations, though.
I keep going back and rewatching LazerPig’s ‘How To Kill A God’ video. There’s stuff in it that is a stark warning not just for the likes of Putin, but for me personally.
We tend to think in terms of grand conspiracies, coherent dastardly plots to do evil by wicked manipulators. All the more when we learn that YES, there are indeed wicked manipulators hard at work, and they think they’re being a grand conspiracy against our own grand conspiracy and so on and so on. Putin is apparently like that: in Russian politics everyone is all in on conspiracy and treachery.
LazerPig outlined how, sure enough, Russian oligarchs bought up most of London and meant to influence and manipulate everything, very scary. But here’s the thing, LazerPig said that just as they were doing this, there are LOTS of other wealthy people in the world doing the same thing, and always had been. And the British wealthy were very old money and very used to all that and they were trying to manipulate the Russians right back. And succeeding. So ‘Londongrad’ wasn’t Londongrad because it was being brought into Russia’s sphere. It was infested with Russians because they felt at home there, had fun, didn’t have to fear constant betrayal, and they were happy. Putin was losing his oligarchs to the wiles of the West (and began murdering them, sometimes).
It’s like there’s what one set of malefactors want, what others want, and what really happens. Leonard Leo and his evildoers clearly want a theocracy, and power, dictatorial power. McConnell and the like wanted power. Putin doesn’t want them to have power, he wants them to have a civil war, wants America torn apart with nobody ending up with power. Stone knives and bearskins and nothing in his way as he attacks NATO. That’s clearly what Putin wants.
So as far as Trump going to jail? No, the Leonard Leos, the Supreme Court won’t want him going to jail, they’ll want him rubberstamping their ideas, and they’ll let Russia help. However, Russia would love to see him going to jail and then a massive uprising to smash the jail (even if it has to be manufactured), or they might want him going to jail and then being promptly killed so the MAGAs will flip out and start that civil war: in no case do they want him to have power, and that is important. It’s like that meeting in Helsinki. They want him miserable and cowed.
And the thing is, NOBODY really has control. They would all like to do grand conspiracies, and they’re all flawed. Good people all over are echoing fragments of insane conspiracist propaganda. The whole debate thing is absolutely an attempt with desperate force to play the cards they were dealt, for all they’re worth. The thing the Russian side has going for it is that they don’t need an end goal of any kind of victory or power. They want disintegration and discord, so they don’t have to construct any real power, they have to sow dissent and chaos.
There’s a limit to how appealing that can be. If you can’t con yourself that a savior will appear who is at least okay, it’s very discouraging. And that’s also a goal of Russian propaganda: to discourage.
gwangung
@karen marie: Yeah, same here. The leaps in logic here are confounding.
Martin
@lowtechcyclist: I can’t really say. I’m more confident on incarceration here because not only does NY have a history of incarcerating for this very thing, this judge has a history of incarcerating for this very thing, with first time offenders, from the Trump Organization. This judge sentenced Allen Weisselberg to prison time just one year ago.
The documents case is only predictive if we remove the judge. Right now, that’s never going to trial.
The insurrection case, I don’t know. Nothing to extrapolate from. Tarrio’s seditious conspiracy conviction could be since Tarrio too wan’t at the Capitol, but Trump isn’t being charged with that. I just don’t know – I think he should get prison time – a lot of it, but I don’t think any result would surprise me there. A sentence that doesn’t include time would surprise me with NY.
That doesn’t put him in a cell before the election no matter what – that’ll all get delayed for appeals.
I think it’s very dangerous how much of Trumps freedom from all of these legal issues hinges on the election. That’s a HUGE incentive to further break the law.
Geoduck
@WaterGirl: No. Disagree 100%. He’s gotta do the other scheduled debate in September now. Don’t agree to do any MORE, yes.
Baud
@Eyeroller:
Agree completely.
Kristine
@zhena gogolia: I can heartily recommend Burlap & Barrel for spices if you want to try someone new.
Martin
@eclare: It’s not really that though. If I’m advising Mayor Pete – he’s GREAT at statistics. It really conveys that he knows what he’s talking about. It’s a good way to convey competence, if it comes so naturally that it conveys competence. If you struggle with it, it does the opposite.
There are a lot of ways to persuade. Obama was a raise the roof kind of speaker. Pete isn’t, but that technocratic approach is just as effective when it’s authentic. Biden will do best when he’s comfortable and confident. Figure out in that moment what that is, and give him permission to ignore everything else – the stats, the names of bills, whatever. Hell, ignore the question the moderator is asking since half of debate prep is figuring out how to do madlibs with the national debt question and turn it into ‘my opponent is weak on abortion’. Just do the abortion attack since that’s what you’re going to do anyway.
Geminid
@gene108: In a way it’s reassuring that the team of Bauer, Dunn and Klain were responsible for the faulty debate prep. I don’t think they are so deeply invoved in this campaign, but were instead a sort of “All Star” pickup team formed for this particular purpose. Although Dunn may have (or had) a more regular role too.
If Campaign Manager Julie Chaves Rodrigues or her Principal Deputy Quentin Fulks had been responsible I’d be worried about the campaign in general. But Dunn, Bauer and Klain are non-essential personnel and Biden can do just fine without them whether they are fired or merely sidelined.
zhena gogolia
@Kristine: Thanks! I was jarred by Penzey’s approach, since he presents himself as a freedom fighter.
zhena gogolia
@Martin: I’m glad you’re taking this positive approach, and I think your analysis is correct.
Miss Bee
@WaterGirl: I doubt they said anything about dumping Biden. Check out Penzey’s website penzeys.com/
Penzey’s is a spice and seasonings seller based in Milwaukee although they have small stores throughout the country. I’ve been cooking with their products for years.
The”About Us” and the “About Republicans” tabs on the website will answer your questions.
You didn’t ask which spices are the best, though. In my opinion, Fox Point, Sunny Paris, Penzey’s Revolution, and Trinidad Lemon Garlic are at the top!
Eyeroller
@Baud: I suppose that’s why the best defense seems to have come from ex-Republicans and Never Trump Republicans. They know how to play this fucking psychological game and Democrats don’t. I have speculated on other threads why we don’t, but I do not really have an answer for this longstanding problem.
zhena gogolia
@Miss Bee:
Here’s the relevant passage. It is less than a full-throated defense of Biden.
zhena gogolia
@Eyeroller: Except Tom Nichols. the asshole
Jackie
@Geoduck: I was getting the impression that had Joe had a stellar debate, and TCFG not so much, TCFG was ready to announce his VP choice to 1) distract, distract, distract, and 2) to bolster any negative polls after a bad debate showing.
So TCFG will go back to his original plan of a yugly bigly climatic announcement at the convention.🙄
Baud
@Eyeroller:
Yep. It’s fascinating in a way. I’ve thrown out some speculation as to why that is, but who knows? I can say it disinspires me, which makes me wonder how it affects normies.
Eyeroller
@Baud: It’s not even the “he-man alpha male” crap AFAICT. It’s mostly that we won’t defend our candidates if anything even slightly bad happens, and we look weak and fickle and unreliable.
Kristine
@zhena gogolia: Definitely disappointed in Penzey’s.
Martin
@Bupalos:
I think this is a bit off. I think Biden is legitimately focused on what gets a Democratic win in Nov. If that’s him, that’s the plan. If that’s not him, that’s the plan.
I’m not sure he’s shaken. Maybe he is. But you can not be shaken and still decide that the response to the debate needs to be dealt with, and because you’ve committed to a 2nd one, can you get in the necessary shape for that. Canceling is an option, but everyone will just read that as you expected to bomb even worse.
I think the neutral assessment here is that it was embarrassing but did no material damage to the campaign, so there’s no driving need to change anything, though they have to completely rethink their approach to the next debate, and lets work on that starting now, and are there events and activities that they can add going forward to reassure voters.
So as I said yesterday (to some disagreement) the campaign will have this come to Jesus conversation, everything is put out in the open, options are all on the table. This isn’t drama, it’s business. Joe needs to give an honest assessment of where he is, is he up to a better performance in the next debate, his advisors need to lean on him if they think he’s bullshitting them, and when everything is out, you start working the decision tree to the thing that maximizes your chance of victory. My guess is that’s to stay the course, change the debate approach, add some interviews so people can see him, and carry on. If he’s rattled, you address what’s rattled him. if you can’t you pull the reserve and it’s a Harris/? ticket. Guessing ? is Pete just due to general vibes. Take age out of the discussion on the Democratic side and let it hang on the Republican side.
Baud
@Eyeroller:
That’s how I see it. But I know I see most things differently than most people.
cmorenc
It was only (exactly) one month before the 2016 election when it was the GOP was abruptly thrown into disarray with prominent party members discussing whether Trump should drop out, when the content of the “Access Hollywood” tapes containing Trump gleefully bragging about “pussy grabbing”. The public impressions created by that revelation were far more indelible and uncorrectable than any “Biden is old” impression created Thursday night 127 days out. True, Trump had foreign assistance from Julian Assange and the intel Russia fed out through him, but like Hillary, Trump has some serious negative distractions ahead of him to deal with between now and the election.
Eyeroller
@Baud: I think you mean “differently from most liberals, especially white male liberals.”
Baud
@Eyeroller:
That too, but I also mean people.
Eyeroller
@Baud: I mean, we are apes, and we look to find the stongest ape in our troupe to protect us.
Bupalos
@karen marie: I think folks like Raskin think Biden should and may decide to step aside.
Baud
@Eyeroller:
I’m afraid a lot of people are like that. I’ve referred to them previously as natural serfs.
Eyeroller
@Bupalos: Raskin? Seriously? That would be political malpractice.
Jay
@Bupalos:
Not gonna happen.
Another Scott
Fritschner nailed it. From hours before the debate.
Cheers,
Scott.
Jackie
@WaterGirl: I’d like the second debate, but done Town Hall style with on the spot FACT CHECKING. Mics cut off only if/when either candidate blatantly and consistently interrupts the other. A little pushback from either allowed.
Martin
@zhena gogolia: My first reaction to the debate was a bad one because it was a personal one. Biden’s affect took me directly to a time I had to remove a similar aged faculty member the from the classroom. Usually faculty recognize when they can’t teach any more, but this guy loved teaching, and we liked him and accommodated him and we shouldn’t have. I had to walk him out in the middle of a class. It was rough. And he had that same affect as Biden at the start. I couldn’t help but project that back onto Biden, and I shouldn’t have, but that event was emotional for me.
On rewatching, I was able to put that aside and focus on why he was so bad out of the gate, and that’s my theory as to why. If correct, it shouldn’t be hard to fix. But Biden needs to find his ‘jog out to the podium’ energy for the next one. I think he needs to have that energy going in the door, rather than finding it along the way.
Martin
@Another Scott: Yeah. And I think it’s gotten worse as society increasingly values authenticity over performance. Debates don’t give a lot of room for authenticity. They feel bad even when everyone does well.
Jay
jefftiedrich.com/p/the-media-needs-to-cut-this-shit
Mike E
@Eyeroller: Raskin was asked and gave a word salad answer saying absolutely nothing. We are being played here by fucking trolls.
Jay
@Mike E:
Politico ran with “Trumps Tan Made Biden Look Pale,”
Miss Bee
@Geminid: this 20/20 hindsight is convincing. The words I might use would add that the 3 part answers that Biden tried to spout were mechanical, almost inhuman. They didn’t activate any sense of trust, respect, and recognition for the man and the president that is Joe Biden.
Eyeroller
@Martin: Wow, my late husband was a department chair and an associate dean and at our university, this would always be the job of the department chair. What an abdication of responsibility. At our university only faculty interact directly with students and other faculty. Must have been a total breakdown of the system, or else the California system is very different from the typical academic hierarchy. Sorry you had to do that, it should not have been your job.
Slightly_peeved
@Bupalos:
If you treat right-wing bias in print media as “borderline conspiracy” thinking, as opposed to an exhaustively documented and studied phenomenon since the Spanish War, then you know less about politics than about diagnosing dementia from debates.
Mike E
@Chris Johnson: Nice story. I do like the part where Turd dies, MAGA loses their shit and attempts a “civil war”…they will get crushed. Let it be so!
Eyeroller
@Jay: Uh…they mean his bronzer? It isn’t a tan, we know that, Politico knows that, so…?
Eyeroller
@Mike E: Why couldn’t he have said “Joe has a speech impediment. He had an off night. I’ve talked to him and he’s perfectly cogent” like I mentioned upthread. What the fucking hell is wrong with Democrats???
Jay
This,
jefftiedrich.com/p/the-media-needs-to-cut-this-shit
Is a must read. Jeff brings the receipts,
Mike E
@Jay: hey, if you watch Hacks the overall theme is that it’s hard being a comedy legend in the same way it’s virtually impossible to succeed as a long-term going interest in any field: you better light shit on fire with your content or pretty soon you’ll be eating the seed corn just to survive. We are seeing the endgame play out and a Politico headline like that is proof.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@skerry:
I agree with you. IME Omnes does not mansplain, ever. Clarification on legal points are welcome from our experienced voices here.
Mansplaining isn’t something to joke about, IMO.
Geminid
@Miss Bee: Joe Biden doesn’t need to channel Al Gore, he needs to channel Harry Truman.
Manyakitty
@zhena gogolia: <<waves spooky fingers in their general direction>> 😃🤣
Jay
@Eyeroller:
The whole “hot take” was that Felon34’s makeup made President Joe Biden look weak and pale, they wrote basically a Trumpian “Sir” column about the debate.
As Jeff points out, only one media outlet, globally, the Philadelphia Inquirer, didn’t feed their readers/viewers/listeners utter horseshit.
Manyakitty
@zhena gogolia: what happened? I don’t see a new email from them
Mike E
@Eyeroller: Meh, I don’t belong to any organized political party; I’m a Democrat.
If congress critters don’t realize that any/all media appearances can be posted online by anybody with a smartphone, then I don’t know what to say… Jeffries should woodshed his wayward members, or AOC ought to be tasked to school these reps
Jackie
This thread is dying, but… TCFG is begging the Supremes for total immunity on the Eve of Decision:
Sorry WaterGirl, but I’m NOT clicking on Untruth Media for the link, so RawStory it is 😏
Geminid
@Mike E: Texas Congresswoman Jasmine Crocket gave a fierce defense of Joe Biden that has circulated widely.
Manyakitty
@Baud: fuck yes.
Eyeroller
@Geminid: Of course it’s a Black woman; what is wrong with white Democrats, especially white male Democrats (rhetorical question, I’m afraid we know the answer).
Betty
@Scout211: Sorry to see Ron Klain included. He has been so good in the past. But clearly they did not understand what Biden would be facing. For someone with a stutter to try and counter Trump with lots of details within a 2 minute time limit made no sense. Keep it simple. “I passed an infrastructure plan. Trump failed to.”
Eyeroller
@Betty: They absolutely did not take his fluency disorder into account. He covers it up so well that they didn’t appreciate how much cognitive effort it requires to manage it. And he would not have said anything about it to them.
zhena gogolia
@Geminid: I just watched that — great!
Manyakitty
@zhena gogolia: I think this is okayish. He definitely takes a ‘stay the course’ line, but I’m not sure what he means with the “Wisconsin values” bit.
Mike E
@Betty: even simpler: repeat the debate question, point out Turd refuses to answer it, then answer it with a ~30 second answer followed by a choice 30 second campaign sound bite (or a zinger)
Manyakitty
@Jay: good stuff. This is the take.
David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch
@Jackie: The decisions are always completed weeks ahead of time to give the type setters enough lead time to produce and proof read the final publications.
Sounds like he’s hearing from the Thomas & Alitos circles how the decision hasn’t gone his way and in typical fashion is pleading to the bitter end.
Jackie
@David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch: That was my take, too.
Is there a “rubbing hands gleefully” emoji? After these past three days, I’m actually looking forward to tomorrow’s news!
Geminid
@Eyeroller: Senator Fetterman has been a forthright defender of Joe Biden on the debate question, in his characteristically blunt way. I haven’t looked around but I expect other White officeholders have been too. Governor Newsom certainly has been.
On Democratic Twitter, I’ve seen plenty of White Democrats like New Yorker Tom Watson resist the pundit stampede. But many of them will acknowledge that Black Democrats are leading the way, as they often do.
Manyakitty
@Geminid: that’s where I generally look to calibrate my interpretation, starting with Rep. Clyburn.
BellyCat
@Martin: 100%
BellyCat
@eclare: Yes. Let Joe be Joe.
WaterGirl
@zhena gogolia: I expect better from them.
WaterGirl
@Miss Bee: I have been ordering penzey’s for years. What they wrote is pretty wishy-washy, not what I would expect.
scott alloway
@raven:
Grew up in a Navy town. I know the Shore Patrol’s rep. My father was former navy and a cop in the same town. New London, CT. Don’t mess with the CP.
Martin
@Eyeroller: There are opportunities for non-faculty to work themselves into administrative roles usually reserved for faculty. I was one of those. There are a lot of benefits of that as well, mainly that I didn’t need to have the same kind of collegial deference that a faulty member in my position would have. I had a very good working relationship there – there was respect on both sides, but it was based more on administrative effectiveness than academics. I wasn’t the only staff like that, but there weren’t a ton of us. The other benefit is that I wasn’t involved in the usual faculty politics which gave me a kind of freedom to operate that was useful.
It worked well enough that I led a statewide curriculum working group for a few years – all UC, CSUs, CCCs, and privates in the state. But my career wasn’t what you would call normal. I did so many different things and interacted with so many groups in different ways that I was really hard to nail down. Made things kind of fun, to be honest.
Jinchi
I think we should assume that all the hot takes published in the last two days, insisting Biden must resign, were solicited directly by media organizations – probably with an explicit email query “Do You Think Biden Should Resign?!”
People who answered in the affirmative were called back to write up their opinions on the subject.
Ruckus
@Eyeroller:
Rethuglicans only have one game left to play. And that is the fucking psychological game. Democrats don’t play that game because it isn’t part of governing, it’s part of trying to be something one isn’t. If rethuglicans had any other game to play they might play it, but they don’t. They have gotten to the point that their concept of governing is no longer viable. They hired SFB to be the/their president and he has ZERO concept of actually accomplishing anything more than looking at a bank account. And he is crap at that, how many times has this rich man had to declare bankruptcy? His skill is thinking he’s rich and telling the world that he is, all the while burning through whatever comes through the door faster than a 5 alarm fire.
Ruckus
@Another Scott:
This.
One of the things that makes them worthless is the structure of the debate. The next thing that makes them worthless is that the 2 sides of our political parties really are not playing the same game, under the same rules and in the same ballpark.
What I mean by that is what the party leaders of the 2 sides want as job output of their candidates is entirely different. Republicans want their conservative leaders to protect the monied – the people that own the party. Democrats actually want to lead the country. The two concepts are completely different in every way possible and require a massive difference in what the job is and how the job is done and what the end result is. And sure they may not expect to get 100% of what they want, but they want far more than 1 or 2 percent of it.
Ruckus
@Martin:
As an old, (not quite as old as Joe, but not all that far behind) who lives in a senior’s apartment complex (one has to be over 55 to rent – I’m well qualified in that regard) and one who knew when to retire and has had to adjust to owning an actual old body, and have been told by docs – SLOW THE HELL DOWN, one really has to understand that the physical body does not always follow the brain’s concept of living. I used to walk faster than most anyone I’ve ever met. Not any more. If one wants to prolong the aging process and most of us absolutely do, one HAS to SLOW DOWN. All the parts of the human body age as time passes. If you are say, under 60/65 you will find this out as you age. It does not mean the brain does not work, it means that if you want the physical side of life to work – you slow down. It’s like a car with a lot of miles on it, at some point it quits working and if you keep driving it like a NASCAR racer it quits a lot earlier and a lot harsher. IOW you slow down because that’s what happens. The brain part can work very reasonably for actual decades longer, even if it isn’t as fast as it was.