Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Giving in to doom is how authoritarians win.

Accused of treason; bitches about the ratings. I am in awe.

Books are my comfort food!

Is it negotiation when the other party actually wants to shoot the hostage?

“The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.”

It’s always darkest before the other shoe drops.

It is possible to do the right thing without the promise of a cookie.

“What are Republicans afraid of?” Everything.

There are consequences to being an arrogant, sullen prick.

The arc of history bends toward the same old fuckery.

How any woman could possibly vote for this smug smarmy piece of misogynistic crap is beyond understanding.

“The defense has a certain level of trust in defendant that the government does not.”

I’d try pessimism, but it probably wouldn’t work.

You cannot love your country only when you win.

When I was faster i was always behind.

Dear Washington Post, you are the darkness now.

A democracy can’t function when people can’t distinguish facts from lies.

Second rate reporter says what?

This country desperately needs a functioning fourth estate.

If you cannot answer whether trump lost the 2020 election, you are unfit for office.

Tick tock motherfuckers!

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

You are so fucked. Still, I wish you the best of luck.

Republicans want to make it harder to vote and easier for them to cheat.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Excellent Links / Late Night Open Thread: The SC(R)OTUS Immunity Theory, Illustrated

Late Night Open Thread: The SC(R)OTUS Immunity Theory, Illustrated

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Late Night Open Thread: The SC(R)OTUS Immunity Theory, Illustrated

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Reader Interactions

107Comments

  1. 1.

    Chet Murthy

    What in tarnation do they teach kids in high school  these days?  I remember when “nobody is above the law” was goddamn catechism!

  3. 3.

    Chet Murthy

    @OzarkHillbilly: I grew up in TX — a small lily-white (meaning the Black people were well-taught to stay inconspicuous) town — and sure, Mrs. Scott taught us in 6th grade that the Garden of Eden existed for reals, and Mrs. Shoemaker taught us in 12th grade that the Flood happened.  But Mr. Witherspoon taught us in freshman American History (as did some teacher in middle-school Am.Hist) that “in America, nobody is above the law”.

    Evidently, that was a lie, and Americans are completely willing to let it pass, b/c they never fucking believed it anyway.

  4. 4.

    sab

    @OzarkHillbilly: Which ten commandments? My church’s version bans graven images and idolatry. Pretty much knocks out Mary, other saints, and various angels and archangels. Objects of respect but not veneration.

    2nd commandment (no graven images) also knocks out ten commandments on a plaque in your school room. Those are graven images.

  6. 6.

    Chief Oshkosh

    Happy 4th of July! I got two friends to start the process of getting their postcard writing efforts started today in honor of the day. Gotta do what you can do to make the world a better place.

  7. 7.

    lowtechcyclist

    Now we’ve got a king, just like the other nations! Thank you, SCROTUS!

  8. 8.

    Chet Murthy

    @OzarkHillbilly: I am profoundly uncomfortable with work on human evo-devo and pushing back to date of out-of-womb viability.  Someday we’ll be able to grow embryos outside the womb, and on that day humans will become so much cattle.  Thank goodness I’ll be dead long before that happens.  Sigh.

  10. 10.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Chet Murthy: Evidently, that was a lie,

    I think most Americans figured that out in early adulthood. Of course there was always the corollary that one should not be tooooooo brazen about breaking the laws as that just embarrassed officials who then felt they had to take action.

    @sab: Which ten commandments?

    You are asking the wrong person, I’m an apostate who found that no religion works best for me.

  11. 11.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Chet Murthy: Hmmmmmm… I’ve always said the epitaph on my gravestone would be “This time, I’m not waiting.” but “Thank Dawg I’m dead before that happened.” could be in the running as well.

  14. 14.

    OzarkHillbilly

    In reading Italian court upholds murder convictions of two Americans over death of police officer, I came across this:

    Italy’s highest court, the court of cassation, ordered a new trial last year, saying it had not been proved beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendants, with limited Italian language skills, had understood they were liaising with Italian police officers when they went to meet an alleged drug dealer in Rome.

    My first read was, “the court of castration”.

  15. 15.

    Viva BrisVegas

    In 1776 the government of Britain consisted of a House of Commons, a House of Lords and a King.

    The members of the House of Commons were those rich enough to buy their way into getting elected into a rotten borough.

    The House of Lords consisted of those whose birth and wealth made them deserving of lifetime appointments.

    The King was above the law.

    The American colonies rebelled against that arrangement.

    Until now.

  16. 16.

    Chet Murthy

    @Viva BrisVegas: Josh Marshall (of TPM) noted that back in the 18th century, all anybody knew was kings.  19th and 20th century Westminster-style parliamentary democracy was in the future.  So the American Constitution enacted a Presidency that is much like a king.  With, it must be noted, many, many safeguards, b/c the framers weren’t idiots and realized some of the dangers of having a king.  But hey, CJ Roberts and the Seditious Six decide to rip down those safeguards.

  17. 17.

    lowtechcyclist

    Yeah, this is a very strange and bizarre Fourth of July, now that the Extreme Court has gutted it of its meaning.

    I really think we should push for a Constitutional amendment:

    “No person is above the law. The Constitution and the laws of the United States of America are to apply equally to all American citizens and to all who reside within the states and territories of the United States, regardless of office or station in life.”

    Let’s see the Rethugs vote against that.

    Until this week, I’d have thought that this didn’t need to be explicitly stated, but now we know it does. Dammit.​

    ETA: My Congresscritters are going to be getting dead-tree letters proposing this.

  18. 18.

    Chet Murthy

    @lowtechcyclist: Such an amendment would be a nice thing, after we get the ERA, one affirming the inalienable right of each citizen to vote (and penalties for depriving a citizen of that right), and on and on.  The thing is, when the bastards are intent on violating norms, you can’t pile on the amendments fast enough to keep up.  It’s the problem with all human-made systems: they can be gamed by humans.

    Sigh.

  20. 20.

    prostratedragon

    Pres. Biden last night:

    Tomorrow is the fourth of July. Another reminder of why it’s so important to know our history, not to erase our history, to remember the sacred cause of American democracy. And not make up a lost cause to justify the evil of slavery…

  21. 21.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Chet Murthy: ​
     

    Such an amendment would be a nice thing, after we get the ERA, one affirming the inalienable right of each citizen to vote (and penalties for depriving a citizen of that right), and on and on.

    No, don’t go down this freaking road of ‘we shouldn’t do X because Y is more important and we haven’t done Y.’ Just don’t.

    The thing is, when the bastards are intent on violating norms, you can’t pile on the amendments fast enough to keep up.

    This sounds to me like giving up in advance.

    It’s the problem with all human-made systems: they can be gamed by humans.

    I mean, this is absolutely true: you can’t just create a system and expect it to enforce itself. People have to stand behind it and insist that its rules be heeded.

    I would say that putting an amendment such as this on the floor of Congress (and hopefully to the state legislatures after that) and daring Rethugs to vote against it, can and should be part of that effort.

  22. 22.

    Chet Murthy

    @lowtechcyclist: I’m not against it: I think it’s a great idea.  I’m  just pointing out that you’ll never end with the amendments, and they take a ton of energy to get passed.

    The fundamental problem is bad faith, and we have to find a way to address that.  I personally believe we need something like what the Germans have — laws against polluting the discourse with anti-democratic bullshiit.

  23. 23.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Chet Murthy: ​

    I’m just pointing out that you’ll never end with the amendments, and they take a ton of energy to get passed.

    Well, since we never begin with the amendments anymore, I’m just not seeing this.

    Is there more involved in putting a proposed Constitutional amendment up for a vote in Congress than doing so with any other piece of legislation? I don’t see where the extra energy is involved, unless and until we’re lucky enough to get the amendment through Congress and on to the states.

  24. 24.

    Princess

    This is a very simple issue that everyone is capable of understanding that cuts against most Americans strongly ingrained sense of fairness. Frankly, it’s like abortion in that respect. The SC doesn’t need to think of political consequences because its members are there until they are removed feet first, but now the court is one arm of one political party it is leading them to make judgements that are very unsavvy from a political point of view (as well as cruel, inequitable and inhumane from a human point of view.)

  25. 25.

    Chet Murthy

    @lowtechcyclist: Ah, ok.  you mean it as messaging.  As messaging, sure, it’s a great idea.  I was pooh-poohing the idea that it might actually get enacted, and actually mean something.  More than messaging, that is.  As messaging, I agree completely.

  27. 27.

    TBone

    Both yesterday and today, this clusterfuck was the subject of my first conscious thoughts upon waking each morning.  What should I call my country now? The United Estates of Fiefdoms?

    During a nap yesterday, I had a nightmare where I was asleep and could not wake up.  My voice wouldn’t work.  I attempted to scream out to hubby over and over for assistance, but despite hearing myself in my own head in my dream, no sound would emanate.  One of the scariest nightmares ever!

    This entire Dotard situation is fucking with my head.  I am angry all the time now.  I took a break yesterday, spending a lot of offline time outdoors and then watching cheerful musicals on TCM. I don’t feel like celebrating my very favorite holiday today.  During my time volunteering at the Colonial Plantation, I’d get kidnapped by the Redcoats during war reenactments, put into ankle shackles, and forced to feed the King’s troops.  It feels like that in real life now.

    President Biden, I implore you.  Do not allow your kindness to be mistaken for weakness.  That happens to me a lot, and it never ends well.

    I can’t believe there aren’t huge protests in the streets across our nation today.

  33. 33.

    Slightly_peeved

    I think Biden should use this power once – to appoint ten new Supreme Court Justices. People who he knows think this ruling is bullshit and believe in a code of ethics, with the single exception that they will not recuse themselves from a case on whether Biden had the right to appoint them.

    If he’s worried about public backlash, do it after the election.

  34. 34.

    TBone

    @lowtechcyclist: ❤️🇺🇸💙

    Yesterday, hubby took a road trip.  He brought home a hard copy of the Philadelphia Inquirer for me.

    It took 40 years to find a man who gets me. I hadn’t even told him about that newspaper standing by our President.  I don’t know how he knew!

  35. 35.

    p.a.

    My editorial cartoon idea:  Uncle Sam nailed to a cross, the 6 traitors standing around dressed as Roman soldiers (Roberts in the highest ranking uni) celebrating, with Sanctimonious Sam holding the hammer and extra nails.  Ghost of Scalia standing to the side, masturbating.

     

    Too much?😉

  36. 36.

    Chet Murthy

    @p.a.: That bastard Ginny Thomas with a cup catching the drops of blood leaking from Uncle Sam’s wounds and drinking up!

  37. 37.

    TBone

    @TBone: the only other time I was forced to wear ankle shackles, they were accompanied by an orange jumpsuit instead of a beautiful, long dress of linen with a tied bodice.

    I hope I live to see Dotard thusly adorned in orange.

  38. 38.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Chet Murthy:

    Ah, ok. you mean it as messaging. As messaging, sure, it’s a great idea. I was pooh-poohing the idea that it might actually get enacted, and actually mean something. More than messaging, that is. As messaging, I agree completely.

    It’s one or the other, depending: either the Rethugs vote for it and it gets through Congress, or they’ve handed us a sledgehammer to hit them over the head with repeatedly for their vote against it.

    If it gets through Congress, it’s worth the effort to push for it in state legislatures and put Rethug legislators there in a similar bind. If not, I’d cheerfully accept the gift of the sledgehammer.

  40. 40.

    Chet Murthy

    @TBone:

     I am angry all the time now.

    I read the definition of a “fanatic” once: “he won’t change his mind and he won’t change the subject.”  I’ve definitely become a fanatic about this shit.  Which isn’t healthy, that’s for sure.

  42. 42.

    TBone

    @Chet Murthy: the knot in my gut is constant.  I can’t live like this and I can’t tune all the way out.  This is NOT ME.  It’s like that earthquake of bullshit foisted upon us by the Supremacists Court got into my very cells and altered my nature.

    I DISSENT!!!!!

  43. 43.

    TBone

    @Baud: 😆😆😆

    I’m gonna ask him how he knew (if he knew) when we’ve both had enough coffee to start speaking words to each other today.  He’s pretty engaged but is way more normie than me.

    He lets me do ALL the paperwork.  That includes ballots.

  44. 44.

    YY_Sima Qian

    What is w/ the new media “reporting” that Biden is talking to confidantes about possibly dropping out, & the next few days being do or die? All during the Independence Day long weekend?

    What happened to the comms discipline of the Biden team?

    As I said before, the Biden team has better not been hiding the degree of Biden’s decline. That will be much more damaging than the debate performance or the mass moral panic afterward, because it would call their (& by extension Dem Party’s) basic credibility into question.

    Everyone still needs to vote against Trump & all Rs, in any case.

  47. 47.

    TBone

    @YY_Sima Qian: reminder: clicks and eyeballs for profit.  Always thus.  A small sliver of the oligarchy owns ALL of our media.  They. Do. Not. Care.

    About anything else, not democracy, not fascism, nothing but clicks and eyeballs to drive engagement so they can sell advertising space.

    Outrage drives engagement. For example, see Fox News.

  48. 48.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @YY_Sima Qian: What is w/ the new media “reporting” that Biden is talking to confidantes about possibly dropping out, & the next few days being do or die?

    If nobody is identified, it’s all rumors from 3rd and 4th degree sources who heard it from someone who heard it from their good buddy who sits at the bar drinking with a low level apparatchik in the Biden commerce dept.​
     
    eta: it can still do damage (butter emails, anyone?) but put the blame where it belongs: the horse race news media. There is blood in the water and they want more.

  49. 49.

    hueyplong

    @TBone: It took years of carpet bombing and a Red Army invasion to put  denazification in place last time.

  50. 50.

    EarthWindFire

    @YY_Sima Qian: IMO the comms discipline of the Biden team’s been fine. It’s the freelance “democratic strategists” who went crying to their media buddies that kicked this off. Because it’s great strategy to whine to the media about your party’s candidate? Not in my world.

  52. 52.

    RevRick

    @sab: When Moses smashed the original tablets after discovering that Aaron and the Israelites had made the Golden Calf, he went back up the mountain… and God approved of his actions. It wasn’t because of Moses’ righteous anger, but because God understood that the same humans who made the Golden Calf (out of their anxiety) would turn the engraved tablets into an idol too.

  53. 53.

    p.a.

    It’s obviously becoming less and less likely tRump actually sees the inside of a prison.  That’s ok, I’ll settle for death.

    My question for any with psych training: how to toxic narcissists deal with the idea of their own demise?  No one looks forward to it (religious nuts excepted), but how do people who think they are the center of the universe process it?

  54. 54.

    artem1s

    @YY_Sima Qian:

    What is w/ the new media “reporting” that Biden is talking to confidantes about possibly dropping out, & the next few days being do or die? All during the Independence Day long weekend?

    What happened to the comms discipline of the Biden team?

    when did the MSM making shit up become a breakdown of the comms discipline of the Biden team? oh yea, when the MSM makes shit up about Biden, then Biden and his team refuses to bow to their wisdom, Black Twitter and voters based in reality push back on their made up narrative,  and then the MSM makes shit up about how the Biden team is leaking shit to them.

  55. 55.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @OzarkHillbilly: ​
     

    My first read was, “the court of castration”.

    The Emily Litella moments are now not just audio but also visual.
    Back in the day I thought that bit was just that, a bit. Little did I know…

  61. 61.

    TBone

    Hubby just got his American Flag collar dress shirt out of the closet.  Some guy at a gas station was handing them out one day a few years ago.  It always makes me laugh. He frequently dresses in gear that makes him look like a Trumper so we “fit in” around here.  But he and I know that he is really mocking them and we are both laughing loudly at his loud shirts.  Nothing overtly Trump, just lots of flags and eagles.

    Today’s shirt is reserved for July only.  It is LOUD. Garish. And perfect.  His father was a Marine just like mine and we both know flag etiquette.

  62. 62.

    artem1s

    BTW, TCFG has handed the voters a real opportunity to change the narrative. Black Twitter started pushing back on the ‘black jobs’ gaff. Now the narcissist has been caught on tape making some pretty damning statement about facing off against Harris. Sounds like a 47% moment to me. Remember when those 47%(+) took control of the message and turned the inevitable coronation of the ‘Corporations are People Too’ candidate? Actively choosing to turn the narrative around is an option.

  64. 64.

    lowtechcyclist

    @p.a.:

    It’s obviously becoming less and less likely tRump actually sees the inside of a prison.

    Yeah, it’s looking like Roberts & Co. took care of that on Monday.

    The notion that Biden could just say to Roberts, ‘OK, you’ve made your ruling, now let’s see you enforce it’ is fundamentally implausible because the Federal government relies on the Federal court system as the primary mechanism to enforce Federal laws.  The Feds can’t just send in the troops anytime a company violates the Clean Air Act, but that’s what it would have to do if it tells SCOTUS to fuck off.

    However, the thought has crossed my mind that a state court system might be in a position to do that.  If Judge Merchan received guidance from the New York State Court of Appeals (NYS’ highest court) that he should proceed as if the USSC hadn’t handed down Monday’s immunity ruling, I can’t see what repercussions there would be for the state of New York.

    It’s true that Trump couldn’t be forced to serve any sentence imposed, as long as he stayed out of New York.  (But perhaps NY could make a friendly request to NJ to capture said fugitive and hand him over if he showed up at Bedminster. Who knows?)

  65. 65.

    TBone

    @lowtechcyclist: I love that.  Thank you for the solace.  I read yesterday that Alvin Bragg and Jack Smith still have a few tricks up their sleeves, but dared not hope for the first time in my adult life.

  66. 66.

    Tony G

    @Chet Murthy: I imagine that schools will still teach that.  It was never really true, but now its falseness has been ossified into a Supreme Court ruling.  Kids will be trained in Doublethink — to an even greater extent than was the case when I was a kid.

  67. 67.

    RevRick

    @TBone:

    @p.a.:

    @Chet Murthy:

    Hanging over every thread now, seem to be two questions:

    1). How can we save our country (with the implied fear that we can’t)?
    2). How can we keep our sanity in these fraught, tumultuous, uncertain times?
    We are all exhibiting signs of PTSD, what with nightmares and that sinking feeling in the pit of our stomachs and engaging in revenge fantasies and the constant surge of negative emotions.

    We are bound up in feelings of helplessness and hopelessness, desperately grasping at straws. Just look at the general tenor of our front pagers.
    I know I feel all these things. The thought of a Trump Presidency fills me with dread. Even moreso now that the head of the Heritage Foundation is issuing death threats if the left resists.

    I feel a profound grief and I need comfort (from the Latin, con forte, strength together).

  69. 69.

    Baud

    It occurs to me that the Roberts also wanted to make presidents kings because he remembers all the talk about possibly prosecuting W.

    That obviously went nowhere, but it may have spooked Roberts, and the wanted to make sure no future Republican ever faced that problem.

  70. 70.

    Tony G

    “nobody is above the law” was always (supposedly) a goal, never a reality.  When Ford pardoned Nixon a half-century ago, that act showed that for half the population it was no longer even a goal.  This is another nail in that coffin.

  71. 71.

    lowtechcyclist

    @TBone:

    Hubby just got his American Flag collar dress shirt out of the closet.

    I’m thinking we need t-shirts with the U.S. flag and the words underneath: NO KINGS ALLOWED.

    Time to start disabusing them of the notion that they’re the patriots.

  72. 72.

    catclub

    @sab: Those are graven images.

     

    Are letters images? I would say no.

     

    The catholic church ten commandments is also different.

  73. 73.

    catclub

    @p.a.: No one looks forward to it

     

    Michel Montaigne’s essays have long sections on ‘Think of your last day.’

  74. 74.

    stinger

    Fantastic collection of political cartoons, Anne Laurie. I especially admire Nick Anderson’s use of a specific and appropriate font, and some of the caricatures (Dee Ring, Sheneman) are outstanding. A touch of ironic humor helps ameliorate the pain. Thank you!

  75. 75.

    YY_Sima Qian

    Well, whatever is the case w/ Biden, the coverage has all but ensured that Biden will have to stay in the race, unless he becomes truly infirm. Can anyone conceive of the damage to all Dems if Biden bows out now & essentially validates all of the malicious gossipy reporting for the past week?

    I don’t think multiple MSM outlets are making up things whole cloth in unison. Somebody or somebodies, on the Dem side, are talking to them, to what end I frankly cannot fathom. We all know how venal, egotistical, corrupt & selfish some Dem grandees & operatives can be, but I have to think even the dimmest & the most selfish among them know how damaging such persistent gossip, on a topic where there has been persistent concern, are to every Dem campaign up & down the ballot. All of the moral panic & gossips serve to distract from scrutiny of Trump & the Rs & the reactionary SCOTUS, & suck oxygen from the Dem campaigns. Whatever the Dem grandees maybe, I have to believe most of them are committed to defeating Trump & the Rs, & to holding back the reactionary wave.

    At least it is still Jul.

  76. 76.

    RevRick

    @TBone: The comfort is mutual. My post was an attempt to be pastoral, naming and sharing our collective pain.

  78. 78.

    TBone

    @RevRick: it did exactly that for me.  I miss my little country church very badly.  The Sunday they passed around a sign up sheet to register only Rethuglican voters before the service, I was absent (hubby came home in shock).  It’s a good thing I wasn’t there yelling THIS IS ILLEGAL WHAT THE FUCK, THIS CHURCH DOESN’T PAY TAXES THIS IS AGAINST THE LAW.  The last time I saw my beloved Pastor was in Walmart. He snuck up on us while I was embracing and kissing hubby for some good deed he’d done in the aisles.  Pastor requested a hug and I bear hugged him.

    He said, “I hope you come back.”

    💔

  80. 80.

    lowtechcyclist

    @catclub: ​
     

    Are letters images? I would say no.

    The letters and words in my Hebrew bible or in any of my English-language Bibles are not graven images.

    Put some bowdlerized version of the Commandments on a plaque or poster on the wall in front of each classroom, and I’d say that plaque or poster does constitute a graven image. YMMV.

  81. 81.

    Eyeroller

    @catclub: “Graven image” is another of those bad/archaic translations.  The Hebrew means more like “idol.”  Several years ago I saw a photo of a bunch of Evangelicals bowing down, actually prostrating themselves, around a statue (another possible translation of the Hebrew word “pesel”) of the Ten Commandments.  I’d say that pretty explicitly violates the commandment.

  82. 82.

    Eyeroller

    @YY_Sima Qian: Oh you sweet summer child :-)  Malicious backstabbing and public airing of grievances (sometimes on the record, more usually hiding as an “unnamed source”) is a characteristic of certain Dem operatives and supporters.  The Obama crew in particular seems to really have it in for Biden.  Also some of the Bernie supporters.  We don’t like the “Dems in disarray” trope but there’s an underlying truth there.

  83. 83.

    trnc

    @Baud: ​

    Biden can’t keep the media from making stuff up.

    @YY_Sima Qian: ​

    I sincerely hope that is the case.

    I’m not saying that didn’t happen, but I suspect there were sources outside of the campaign who got out over their skis/made shit up out of their own fantasies. Easy to do when the media eat it up and continually go back to the same anonymous sources for more of their preferred narratives, regardless of the source’s track record.

    This may not be fundamentally different than the press just making shit up.

  84. 84.

    YY_Sima Qian

    @Eyeroller: I don’t know why Obama isn’t telling his young crew to knock it off. He seemed to have great rapport w/ Biden during & after the former’s terms in office, & has openly voiced his support among the mass moral panic post-debate. Why don’t the Obamabros take their former boss’ lead

    Of course, the ones making noises now did not get any positions in Biden’s Administration, there may be a grudge there, possibly. But that is unconscionable given the stakes of this election.

  85. 85.

    Eyeroller

    @YY_Sima Qian: ​Not the young ones (as far as I know), it’s the old guys, specifically Plouffe, Axelrod, and Carville. I have suspicions about Carville especially since I don’t trust him and I know he must have a huge stable of reporters for whom he can serve as a source. Edit: Maybe their issue is they didn’t get hired as consultants.

  86. 86.

    YY_Sima Qian

    @Eyeroller: Ben Rhodes & Jon Favreau have both come out calling for Biden to withdraw, or at least for Dems to prepare for that contingency. Tommy Vietor, too, I think.

    Carville never held any position in Obama campaigns or administrations. The Obama people loathed him.

  87. 87.

    Another Scott

    ICYMI, a couple of pieces at the Brennan Center for Justice:

    Michael Waldman:

    […]

    So, yes, all this will delay Trump’s trial. In that sense, he gets what he craved. But the implications are far worse for the structure of American self-government.

    It is a massive failure for Chief Justice John Roberts. The other major rulings on presidential accountability for legal wrongdoing have been unanimous. U.S. v. Nixon (limiting executive privilege) was written by the Republican chief justice Nixon appointed, and it was unanimous. Clinton v. Jones (opening the president to civil suit even while in office) was unanimous. Let’s grant that Roberts is an institutionalist. He is presiding over the collapse of public trust in the very institution he purports to revere.

    And Trump v. U.S. has enormous implications for the future of the presidency. Remember that utterly bonkers hypothetical from the appeals court argument — that a president could order SEAL Team Six to assassinate an opponent? Sotomayor again: “A hypothetical President who admits to having ordered the assassinations of his political rivals or critics . . . has a fair shot at getting immunity under the majority’s new Presidential accountability model.”

    We read sonorous language in the majority opinion that “the president is not above the law.” But just in time for Independence Day, the Supreme Court brings us closer to having a king again.

    It’s constantly erased from discussion of Roe v. Wade that the decision was 7:2. It was a sensible compromise for the time. The Dobbs ruling was 5:4. Small majorities making major reactionary changes is another rhetorical cudgel that we have to use to fight back. The monsters will push for maximal effect with minimal majorities. It’s what they do. We have to keep them out of positions of power.

    Thomas Wolf:

    […]

    The Court has held for the first time that presidents stand above the criminal law, a radical rejection of a bedrock part of the American legal and political tradition. The idea that lawbreaking presidents could be prosecuted was common sense to the Constitution’s framers, critical to the ratification of the Constitution in the late 18th century, and a background principle against which all presidents have done their jobs in the centuries since then. (Fifteen leading historians represented by the Brennan Center and our co-counsel at the law firm Friedman Kaplan made precisely this case in a friend-of-the-court brief this spring.) The Court has discarded all of this, fashioning a new constitutional rule from nothing.

    The procedures the Court has crafted to go with it are pitched in Trump’s favor. Whenever the case returns to Judge Tanya Chutkan’s trial court, Trump will be presumed immune by default; the burden will be on the prosecution to establish that he isn’t. The Court’s definition of “official acts” cuts extremely broadly, stretching to “the outer perimeter of [Trump’s] official responsibility.” (The Court refused to say exactly where that perimeter ends.) The prosecution must show that prosecuting Trump for those official acts “would pose no dangers of intrusion on the authority and functions” of the presidency (emphasis added). The prosecution won’t be able to claim an official act was “unofficial” because of the president’s motives for doing it. And Trump can seek another round of appellate review if the trial court doesn’t rule him immune. Should the government clear these hurdles, it won’t be able to use the “testimony or private records of [Trump] or his advisors” about official acts to prove his guilt.

    The Court justifies all this new complexity as necessary to protect imaginary future presidents from imaginary future prosecutions. It does not, critically, justify it as a response to the acts of the real and credibly accused former president in the case before it. Just as members of the Court’s conservative supermajority consistently steered the conversation at oral argument away from Trump’s charges, they do not even try to grapple with the bigger implications of applying their new rule to the case in front of them or the consequences if their rule ultimately lets Trump skate. Instead, the Court bows out of the case with the tidy but myopic claim that it “cannot afford to fixate exclusively, or even primarily, on present exigencies,” lest “transient results” threaten “the future of our Republic.”

    The Court doesn’t engage with the ramifications of its opinion, because it can’t — at least not without exposing the fundamental bankruptcy of the whole edifice it has just built. The majority’s ruling cannot possibly be the rule for any functioning democracy. Trump has been charged with attempting to overthrow the election that threw him out of office. Any rule that would grant a president immunity for that crime would remove the principal check on presidential abuses of authority in our democratic system: the vote. And it would encourage other losing candidates to try the same in future elections. It is in this sense that the Court’s opinion is truly lawless. It does not merely invent constitutional rules that are antithetical to our founding commitments or enduring values. It threatens to free presidents from the constraints of law and democracy. And it paves the way for future presidents to try to make good on the most antidemocratic of all propositions: might makes right.

    In reaching to resolve future imagined cases of presidential criminality while downplaying the actual criminality before it, the Court has imperiled accountability for Trump’s wrongs. It has done severe violence to our law. And it has left our democracy exposed.

    Trump v. United States is not a serious opinion for a serious democracy. It is an epochal dereliction of duty.

    (See the originals for embedded links.)

    Lots of folks are bringing receipts and bringing more receipts for the SCOTUS 6 claiming at their confirmation hearings that “nobody is above the law”.

    This ruling, like Dobbs, and gutting Chevron, and gutting the Voting Rights Act, and legalizing political bribery, and all the rest, must not be forgotten. We must vote the monsters and their enablers out.

    Fight for 15!!

    Hang in there, everyone.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  88. 88.

    Eyeroller

    @YY_Sima Qian: Good to hear about the Johnny-come-latelies piling on.  Really builds party unity.

    You’re right, Carville is a fossil from the Clinton era.  He still has plenty of media contacts and exposure.

  89. 89.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Another Scott:

    Shorter Waldman & Wolf:

    “Chief Justice Roberts will go down as the worst Chief Justice ever, taking over that coveted position previously held by Roger Taney.  Y’all remember him, the dude who infamously delivered the majority opinion in Dred Scott v. Sandford (1857), ruling that African Americans could not be considered U.S. citizens and that Congress could not prohibit slavery in the U.S. territories.”

  90. 90.

    trnc

    @YY_Sima Qian: ​
     

    Well, whatever is the case w/ Biden, the coverage has all but ensured that Biden will have to stay in the race, unless he becomes truly infirm. Can anyone conceive of the damage to all Dems if Biden bows out now & essentially validates all of the malicious gossipy reporting for the past week?

    The truly bad faith outlets would clearly frame it that way, but I think there’s an easy case to be made for stepping aside before the convention IF the polling continues to be bad for the next month. “I feel great, but clearly the media have made up their minds. President Harris will do a phenomenal job, so for the good of the country …”

  91. 91.

    trnc

    @Eyeroller: ​
    ​

    Not the young ones (as far as I know), it’s the old guys, specifically Plouffe, Axelrod, and Carville

    I haven’t much about Plouffe lately, but Carville and Axelrod have been chaos agents for years. I would almost imagine them leaving the party, but then they lose all their value as “democrats.”

  93. 93.

    YY_Sima Qian

    @trnc:

    The truly bad faith outlets would clearly frame it that way, but I think there’s an easy case to be made for stepping aside before the convention IF the polling continues to be bad for the next month. “I feel great, but clearly the media have made up their minds. President Harris will do a phenomenal job, so for the good of the country …”

    Now I think you are the one being naive. :-)

  94. 94.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Another Scott:

    This ruling, like Dobbs, and gutting Chevron, and gutting the Voting Rights Act, and legalizing political bribery, and all the rest, must not be forgotten. We must vote the monsters and their enablers out.

    Fight for 15!!

    Damn straight.

    If we’re lucky enough to hold the White House and Senate, and regain the House this November, one piece of legislation should be to ban the names of any of the six betrayers of democracy from ever (dis)gracing any Federal building or highway or facility.

    We may not be able to impeach the five SOBs or the one DOB, but we could at least do that to remind them of what their place in history will be.

  95. 95.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @trnc:

    IF the polling continues to be bad for the next month.

    Since when is it? Last I heard the polling hadn’t budged much

  96. 96.

    Denali5

    @lowtechcyclist:

    Joe Morelle, my Congressperson, has proposed such an Amendment. I am proud of him. I sent him a letter thanking him. All this media blitz about Biden is simply shifting the attention away from this terrible ruling.

  100. 100.

    sdhays

    @lowtechcyclist: Trump was convicted of crimes committed before he became President. Monday’s ruling does not apply.

    Now, it certainly signals that the Supremacist Court will be willing to further meddle in places they usually don’t, but that hasn’t happened yet.

  101. 101.

    Eolirin

    I think all of these calls for Biden to drop out run a risk of backfiring really severely if Biden’s interview and appearances going forward go well.

    The base is clearly pissed off about them and are viewing them as an unfair attack going by fundraising numbers. That may start to bleed into normie positions if the core of the attack, that Biden is unfit to be President, doesn’t feel correct to people.

    It helps that right now a lot of the freak out isn’t really about Biden’s ability to run the country, but about his ability to not look old and how that may make it harder for him to beat Trump. The polling numbers haven’t moved much. The debate performance wasn’t fatal in that respect.

    People know Biden’s old. A lot of them are concerned about his age. But I also think a lot of the people concerned about his age don’t necessarily think it’s disqualifying, even if they’d rather a younger candidate, and they’re not necessarily going to like people bullying him about it.

    Clinton Impeachment dynamics redux. Pretty much no one was pro affair, but they were very against where the Republicans and the media were going with it. It ended up boosting Clinton’s approval ratings. It’s possible we see the same if Biden can successfully reassure people that he’s actually okay, and the media just ignores that and keeps pushing for a remedy that everyone else views as too extreme.

    That’s probably our best case at least. At minimum, we’ll have Dobbs and Presidential immunity to run against, and those both are pissing off a lot of people. The immunity ruling will hurt Trump. People on the fence are less likely to trust or be willing to roll the dice on him with that kind of power.

    We can easily make this election about matters much bigger than just Biden. And we need to anyway, since we need to win up and down the ballot. I don’t think the battle for the soul of the country could be any clearer given that ruling (even if Loper Bright and Corner Post are ultimately the more impactful and dangerous rulings, which is kind of mind boggling given how bad the immunity ruling was)

  102. 102.

    Chacal Charles Calthrop

    @Chet Murthy:

     

    @p.a.: This may be a bit OT, but your question was the central metaphor of the original Infinity Gauntlet comic, the one that became the basis for the MCU.  Thanos is a toxic narcissist who’s certain that his own death is the most important event in the universe, and therefore decides to sacrifice the universe to please Mistress Death.   “Take everyone but me,” as it were.

    Of course, a Disney movie can’t be about death, so all this got left on the cutting room floor of the MCU.   But the original 1992 Jim Starlin comic was absolutely brilliant.

  103. 103.

    Slightly_peeved

    @sdhays:

    The particular issue is that in one of the particularly absurd sections, the court ruled that conversations between a president and their staff cannot be used in a trial.

    Conversations between him and Hope Hicks were included to show that the concerns around stormy Daniels were political more than familial. Because what kind of dumbass Supreme Court would go and outlaw including that?

    IANAL, but unless the judge views that testimony as not being material to the final verdict, then it throws said verdict into question. I’d love Judge Merchan to say “it was indisputably political, appeal my decision from Riker’s” but some legal types figure the whole case might get thrown out by Supreme Court fiat.

  105. 105.

    Barry

    @YY_Sima Qian: “What happened to the comms discipline of the Biden team?”

    I’m sure that his comms team is disciplined.

     

    This is just the press lying, making things, up, talking to some rando and calling it news.

  106. 106.

    Barry

    @trnc: “The truly bad faith outlets would clearly frame it that way, but I think there’s an easy case to be made for stepping aside before the convention”

    They are almost *all* bad faith outlets.

    As for an easy case, it would be handing the GOP the easiest case to make, ever.  They could claim that this proved every accusation that they have made (with the bad faith outlets backing this).

  107. 107.

    strange visitor (from another planet)

    @Chacal Charles Calthrop:  wow, that’s not really at ALL what happened.

    in 616 marvel earth, there is an incarnation of death who is a cosmic entity. thanos is (or rather, was at that point) in love with her.

    he chose to sacrifice half of the universe to impress her. she spurned him and that led to him warring against the heroes of earth and other cosmic entities.

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